Fast-food strikes widen into social-justice movement

[maddog42]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/04/15/fast-food-strike-fight-for-15-service-employees-international-union/25787045/

[JustRalph]

Social justice? Try "Socialist"

That's what they really want

[Robert Fischer]

have to look at the system

The fact is, that the minimum wage workers do not have much leverage. The profit is coming from the near-monopoly market position and the use of the media, not that individual's labor, and there is a surplus of laborers.

When we look at the conglomerates, they are using every bit of leverage that they have in intelligent ways, against the general public, in order to drive down the cost of labor.

Obviously the general public has much to gain(in the short-term), if they do the same thing and use what leverage that they happen to have to increase their minimum wage.

[TJDave]

I'd like to see them get 15 but, I'm not gonna be eating that crap, anyways. Soon enough the industry will be automated meaning these people will be getting paid to stay home. ;)

[Clocker]

Social justice? Try "Socialist"



Exactly. It's "social justice" because it gives to each according to his needs.


"It's something different," said Kendall Fells, organizing director of Fight for $15, which is funded by the Service Employees International Union. "This is much more of an economic and racial justice movement than the fast-food workers strikes of the past two years."

So, paying less than $15 an hour is racist. This is such BS, especially coming from an SEIU hack. That union has been dumping millions of dollars into this cause for its own agenda, not for social justice. SEIU has two major motivations for this. One is that if workers are getting $15 and hour, especially if SEIU can claim the credit, those workers are more likely to unionize. Which means more union dues flowing into the coffers. The second reason is that a lot of union contracts have their COLA increases tied to the minimum wage. If the minimum wage goes up, under such a contract, the union wage goes up, even for union workers otherwise not subject to minimum wage.

The fast food strikes aren't widening into the social justice movement, the union pimps are just getting slimier in their tactics, including playing the race card.

[Actor]

Social justice? Try "Socialist"

That's what they really want"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." -- Spock :cool:

[Tom]

Mikey Dee service people.......$15 an hour.

Really?
Seriously?

Their contribution to society is minimal at best.
Compare what YOU make and than ask yourself how YOUR contribution compares to theirs.

No reply is needed......just think about it.
And hold the pickle.

[Clocker]

Mikey Dee service people.......$15 an hour.

Really?
Seriously?



And seriously, if wages are increased to $15 an hour, where does the money come from?

[Actor]

Mikey Dee service people.......$15 an hour.

Really?
Seriously?

Their contribution to society is minimal at best.Define minimal. :rolleyes:

[Actor]

And seriously, if wages are increased to $15 an hour, where does the money come from?"I could be wrong, but I think it's gonna come from them that's got it." -- Will Rogers

[Clocker]

"I could be wrong, but I think it's gonna come from them that's got it." -- Will Rogers

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him pay 50% more for a Happy Meal.

Despite the settled science of minimum wagers in Washington, there are still some economist deniers who believe that if you raise the price of something, you sell fewer units.

[maddog42]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/global-mcdonalds-protests_n_5324938.html


"Across the world, McDonald's employees are paid vastly different wages -- from as low as roughly 50 cents per hour in India all the way up to $20 per hour in Denmark. "

[maddog42]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/the-magical-world-where-mcdonalds-pays-15-an-hour-its-australia/278313/


The land down under is, of course, not the only high-wage country in the world where McDonald's does lucrative business. The company actually earns more revenue (http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/content/dam/AboutMcDonalds/Investors/Investor%202013/2012%20Annual%20Report%20Final.pdf) out of Europe than than it does from the United States. France, with its roughly $12.00 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/business/global/minimum-wage-in-europe-offers-ammunition-in-us-debate.html) hourly minimum, has more than 1,200 locations (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/04/29/179879664/mon-dieu-fast-food-now-rules-in-france). (Australia has about 900 (http://mcdonalds.com.au/find-us/restaurant)).

[Clocker]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/global-mcdonalds-protests_n_5324938.html


"Across the world, McDonald's employees are paid vastly different wages -- from as low as roughly 50 cents per hour in India all the way up to $20 per hour in Denmark. "

And the prices are different in those places, and the government subsidies are different, and the degree of automation in the restaurants is different. Any attempt at comparison on a dollar for dollar wage level is meaningless.

And the article gets back to the same old whine about not being able to support a family on McD wages. Hint: it is not your employer's responsibility to support your family.

[Clocker]

The Magical World Where McDonald's Pays $15 an Hour? It's Australia

Where does the money come from?

[maddog42]

Where does the money come from?


According to the The Economist, Aussies have paid anywhere from 6 cents (http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index) to 70 cents (http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/01/daily-chart-3) extra for their Big Macs compared to Americans over the past two years, a 1 percent to 17 percent premium.

[Clocker]

According to the The Economist, Aussies have paid anywhere from 6 cents (http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index) to 70 cents (http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/01/daily-chart-3) extra for their Big Macs compared to Americans over the past two years, a 1 percent to 17 percent premium.

Totally meaningless. We have no idea what other programs, subsidies to employers, tax breaks, etc, might be in effect there.

The question is where does the money come from in the US to pay $15 and hour wages for McD.

This is the big liberal lie. We want a living wage for everyone, but we don't want to pay for it. We will force it, you will pay for it.

[Tom]

All McDonald's are not owned by McDonald's.
Many are not evil corporate entities, but small businesses run by middle class people.

[Clocker]

All McDonald's are not owned by McDonald's.
Many are not evil corporate entities, but small businesses run by middle class people.

Which is where McDonalds really screwed over their franchisees. Corporate owns about 10% of the stores. Corporate is very profitable, making those profits from the franchisees who pay a percentage of revenue to corporate as part of their licensing fee.

So corporate just gave the workers at the corporate stores a raise, and the money comes from the franchisee stores, and all the bleeding hearts say if the corporate stores can afford it, why can't the franchisees?

[Tom]

Bleeding hearts have seeping minds.

[Clocker]

Bleeding hearts have seeping minds.
Nature abhors a vacuum. In the absence of ideas, something else has to fill the void.

[Actor]

All McDonald's are not owned by McDonald's.
Many are not evil corporate entities, but small businesses run by middle class people.Middle class people do not have the means to buy a Mickey Dee franchise. Anyone with the means to buy one is already wealthy.

[Inner Dirt]

The employment landscape has changed quite a bit since I started working part time in High School in the late 70's. As for fast food it was mostly staffed with high school and college kids that needed a part time flexible schedule. No one stayed at a fast food joint for any length of time unless they got made a shift lead and had a shot at manager. At that time entry level manufacturing jobs paid well over minimum wage, many skilled trade apprentice programs double minimum, and also the entry level union grocery store jobs paid double minimum. The preceding was where any entry level worker available for full time set hours went, not McDonald's.

Fast forward, slowly American's love of cheap disposable goods (That isn't me I will pay more for quality whenever possible) led to outsourcing to third world country's and a loss of manufacturing jobs. Basically manufacturing jobs have stagnated in wages on all wage scales. I have been self employed for 20 years as a small machine shop owner. A top paid Class A machinist makes the same now as I did 20 years ago.

Trades also got hit with floods of illegal immigrants that were willing to work for less. This lead to a major change in the make up of the labor force in the construction trades. Instead of maybe having a skilled independent tradesman with one helper each you had huge crews of laborers and one foreman, once again driving down wages.

Fast food joint jobs were never intended to provide long term employment for anyone other than management. I did notice a strange phenomena when I used to frequent a Jack in a Box and a Josie's Tacos when living in North Riverside Ca from 2003-2011. The places mostly had the same employees year in and year out. I used to always talk to a girl in her early 20's when going through the drive thru at Jack in a Box, she said even though she had 6 years there she did not have enough seniority to get on day shift and had to bounce between 2nd shift and graveyard. People are staying at these jobs long term now because of the poor economy.

I think the government should spend money helping people manufacture products in the USA again, helping those jobs pay more across the board instead of more food stamps and other subsidies. I am totally against Unions they seem to hold large employers hostage force and force them to overpay to stay in business, look what they did to car manufacturers.

To the original issue a non management fast food worker is in to way worth $15 an hour, in today's economy they are worth what they are getting paid.

[Tom]

Middle class people do not have the means to buy a Mickey Dee franchise. Anyone with the means to buy one is already wealthy.

Data?

[Clocker]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/the-magical-world-where-mcdonalds-pays-15-an-hour-its-australia/278313/


The land down under is, of course, not the only high-wage country in the world where McDonald's does lucrative business. The company actually earns more revenue (http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/content/dam/AboutMcDonalds/Investors/Investor%202013/2012%20Annual%20Report%20Final.pdf) out of Europe than than it does from the United States. France, with its roughly $12.00 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/business/global/minimum-wage-in-europe-offers-ammunition-in-us-debate.html) hourly minimum, has more than 1,200 locations (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/04/29/179879664/mon-dieu-fast-food-now-rules-in-france). (Australia has about 900 (http://mcdonalds.com.au/find-us/restaurant)).

From the article:

To start, some Australians actually make less than the adult minimum wage. The country allows lower pay for teenagers, and the labor deal McDonald's struck with its employees currently pays 16-year-olds roughly US$8 an hour, not altogether different from what they'd make in the states. In an email, Greg Bamber, a professor at Australia's Monash University who has studied labor relations in the country's fast food industry, told me that as a result, McDonald's relies heavily on young workers in Australia. It's a specific quirk of the country's wage system. But it goes to show that even in generally high-pay countries, restaurants try to save on labor where they can.

[Robert Fischer]

McDonald's Franchise
Startup Costs, Ongoing Fees and Financing

Total Investment: $1,000,708 - $2,335,146
Franchise Fee: $45,000
Term of Franchise Agreement: 20 years, renewable

Financial Requirements:
Liquid Cash Available: $750,000


source:http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/mcdonalds/282570-0.html

[johnhannibalsmith]

For people who want to get into the food franchise business, and want to do so on a budget, the best choice is a deal with Papa John’s International Inc. (PZZA), which requires a minimum liquid asset base of only $50,000. At the other end of the spectrum for franchise financial requirements is Wendy's, at $2 million based on the same measure. Since no one goes to Wendy's, it is hard to see the bargain.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-does-cost-own-mcdonald-181006540.html

[Robert Fischer]

why can't we just love the system and love the market that we live in?

I love it.

It doesn't have to be some kind of 'training' for high school kids, and it doesn't have to be some kind of 'middle class business' to justify it...

The idea is to get a near-monopoly, and use the media. Then you can use the franchise model, and spend relatively little on labor or food.

When you have a group of conglomerates doing this, you then want to subsidize a lower minimum wage, by expanding welfare and food stamps, and then expanding your part-time employees.

It's all a fairly logical system.
Let's celebrate the system rather than getting sidetracked with misinformation and politics.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I can get a semi-hot semi-edible semi-burger for a buck in thirty seconds or less if any of the employees are conscious enough to notice me. That's all I care about.

[headhawg]

I rarely tread into off-topic (God help me...), but I thought that the amount of money someone made in his/her job or career was contingent on skill level and supply of workers for that position? Seriously...how hard is it to take a fast food order? They don't even need to calculate change -- the damn register will figure it out.

I am tired of this country subsidizing stupidity. Let's put warning labels on cups stating "Warning - Contents is hot" or "This product could shock you and cause death if you shower with it while it's plugged in". And now unskilled workers want more money because it's a social injustice? Puhleeze. Here's a thought -- get some effing skills that make you employable at a good wage.

[Clocker]

And now unskilled workers want more money because it's a social injustice? Puhleeze. Here's a thought -- get some effing skills that make you employable at a good wage.

But you can't raise a family on minimum wage. :eek:

And if you can't take responsibility for your actions, then someone else has to. Like your employer. :rolleyes:

[Dave Schwartz]

Recently I read an article (which I now cannot find) which discussed the notion of people who work with their hands versus people who work with their heads.

In our society, we have typically expected that head workers (also apparently, called "brain workers") should be paid more. After all, they worked hard with schooling and just general effort to be more employable.

Conversely, we expect that "hand workers," (also called "grunts" sometimes) deserve to be paid far less.

Most of us - even the left-wingers - generally agree with this fact.

There is, however, a disconnect when it comes to "living wage." What I hear from the left is that people who "deserve" to make a sub-standard wage should still have a "right" to a life that is above "poverty level."

I agree with this premise to a point.

I say, "to a point" because to not see the downside to society when there are too many on the poverty side of the teeter-totter, society slows down or stops.

In the article I read the premise was that there were (from my memory) like 30% less hand employees (notice how I resisted using the phrase "hand jobs" - LOL) than there were a couple of decades ago. The article went on to say that within the next decade or so that figure would be cut by like half again.

If you are a forward-thinking right-winger, what do you suppose happens if (say) 50% of Americans are functioning below (what is perceived as) the poverty level?

Before answering, try to resist the urge to use the phrase, "Who cares?" because you should care.


Most of us on PA are "older." We see being ill-prepared for a viable financial future as a series of bad choices made, usually in youth. I suggest to you that our viewpoint, at least as it applies to 20-somethings and 30-somethings of today is not correct.

The education system has never paid more than lip service to what it takes to succeed in life. As many right-side advocates are willing to agree, today it is even worse as the education system strives to teach people that there is no such thing as failure; that everyone should just view everyone as equals and successes.

Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth!

The logic that says, "If everyone is equal, why should I try so hard?" comes with a price when the reality of the world sets in. When age 18-20 comes around and the now-adult student realizes that his life is nothing but a series of low-paying jobs what happens then?

If "youth" to us means we were growing up in the 50s-60s-70s-80s we would likely say, "Then I picked myself up and decided to make something of myself." In comparison to this age, there were opportunities everywhere.

Today it is not so easy. As an example, when we went job hunting, the personal interview was 90% of the battle. If we were exuding that "nothing-will-stop-me-from-improving" attitude, doors would just open. Maybe not right away but certainly with some perseverance.

Today is very different. Much (most?) of the time you apply on line, or drop off an application, without a contact with anyone "who matters." Also, the application is for a position that was designed with a training process that includes the expectation that you won't last long.

Kind of ranting here and will stop.

My point is that we - being of this age - must wrap our minds around the idea that things are as they used to be. Those of us who got a job and were "bootstrapped" into a career need to not be so critical of those that began with less and found no "boots to strap on to."

Life, for the young is much harder than it was for us, (even walking those 2 miles to school in the So. Florida snow as I did - LOL). And it is going to get harder.


While this is "Just my opinion," I suggest that it is uncomfortably accurate.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: No, I have not switched political affiliations. I am still an American first.

[Clocker]

There is, however, a disconnect when it comes to "living wage." What I hear from the left is that people who "deserve" to make a sub-standard wage should still have a "right" to a life that is above "poverty level."



If society as a whole decides that this is the right thing to do, then society as a whole needs to take the responsibility to pay for it in the same way it pays for other things like defense or public infrastructure. The problem is with people who say that this is what society should do, but turn around and delegate that responsibility to an employer.

[TJDave]

If you are a forward-thinking right-winger, what do you suppose happens if (say) 50% of Americans are functioning below (what is perceived as) the poverty level?

Before answering, try to resist the urge to use the phrase, "Who cares?" because you should care.


You and I will be paying to put a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and food in their bellies. We don't let people starve here, especially children.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I have lived off the dollar menu. If it was a three dollar menu I would have eaten once a day. That's the rub I see more than any. Hopefully the upscale joints are paying well and giving others at least one rung up to aspire to. Everyone wants it to be simple, but I'm not convinced.

[GaryG]

This question has been raised before, but I have never seen an adequate reply. What about the employees making $10 or $12/hr? If the minimum is $15 you have to raise all of them proportionally to remain fair. This is just not going to happen and if it does the outcome will not be pretty.

[Clocker]

This question has been raised before, but I have never seen an adequate reply. What about the employees making $10 or $12/hr? If the minimum is $15 you have to raise all of them proportionally to remain fair. This is just not going to happen and if it does the outcome will not be pretty.

Everything I have seen says that when basic workers get an increase in minimum wage, employers have to raise everyone above that level proportionately to keep the wage differential between workers and their supervisors.

[Dave Schwartz]

You and I will be paying to put a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and food in their bellies. We don't let people starve here, especially children.

Just barely. I am suggesting that, as the bottom strata expands - and as job loss in that strata continues it must - "we" will not be able to keep that up indefinitely.

We're close now to tossing the old timers out on their collective asses. There is potential to accelerate that so that "we" can afford more for the families. I think that is wrong on many levels.


If society as a whole decides that this is the right thing to do, then society as a whole needs to take the responsibility to pay for it in the same way it pays for other things like defense or public infrastructure. The problem is with people who say that this is what society should do, but turn around and delegate that responsibility to an employer.

I am not so sure that is a bad idea.

The trickle-up effect would logically be that the costs are passed on to the "consumer." My belief is that things would stabilize very quickly.

I would much rather see a forced increase in wages and a re-structuring of the very definition of the "poverty level" than any kind of free doling out of money. Sure, you could say that it is the same thing, but one comes with a requirement that the employee show up daily for work, while the other demands that they show monthly to pick up benefits. (Okay, maybe no show up at all with EBT.)

Understand that I am not saying, "If you have a full-time job (which, BTW, hardly exist any more thanks to the liberal changes) you should have a 'good' life." I am saying that if you and your wife work (say) 100-120 hours per week you should be able to get your family of 4 above the poverty level. I am not sure that you can do that now.

What I would like to see:

1. Assistance benefits stop completely for people who are capable of working. (True disability is a different issue.) Instead of paying them for doing nothing, there are parks to be maintained, sidewalks to sweep, and a lot of other functions that cities, states and federal govt could use done.

2. The answer to supporting yourself should never be improved by having another child. Any assistance should max at 2 children.

3. The educational system should stop this, "Just-pretend-everything-is-fine-for-the-near-illiterate-thing." Everything is not fine. People's entire lives after childhood are being ruined because some people are concerned about hurting little Johnny's feelings.

Johnny needs to get used to having his feelings hurt and to be taught that if change doesn't come while he is in high school he will live at a sub-standard level for the rest of his life.

4. Every form of assistance that is developed (with the exception of true, long-term disability) in the future should contain a component of "demand for change and improvement" from the individual.


What I am saying, is just giving it to "them" forever is not a good solution. It is not sustainable.

It is kind of like having your brother-in-law lose his job. He needs help supporting his family. If you just hand him money with no requirement for a plan to get off your dole, it may, logically, go on forever.

Every plan should have a start, some validation requirements (such as get educated or trained, work at a state job, etc.) beyond pure need, and an end. This would limit (though probably not eliminate) abuses and "career welfare."

[Robert Goren]

Amen to your 3rd point. Our schools suck, even the private ones. But even with a better schools, someone still is needed to work at McDonalds and that person still has eat, pay rent, etc.

[JustRalph]

Dave, There are still people who can pull themselves up. But it's hard. I'm not sure it's any harder than when I was young. I worked multiple jobs. My wife did too. That formula still works.

Btw, I tell every young kid who inquires (many work for us) to go to a trade school and not a regular college. There are jobs all over the place here in Texas for mechanics and welders and other trades. Many starting in the 60k range. Machinist are being recruited very hard.

There are people still doing it the hard way. I was playing security at my wife's restaurant the other night after closing. Opening and closing the front doors as the employees were leaving. It was raining like hell. A 30 something kitchen employee was leaving. I remembered that he normally rides a bike. I asked if he had to ride his bike in the rain tonight. He said yes. I offered to toss his bike in my truck and drive him home, but he would have to wait about a half hour.

He declined, quickly explaining that he could be home in five minutes albeit wet, but he could use that half hours sleep. Off he went.

I inquired with my wife about him. She explained he works two restaurant jobs within about ten minutes biking time. 80-84 hours a week. The wife works also. She normally keeps the car. They have a baby and are saving to buy a house. He says he is half way to paying cash for his first house. My wife recently gave him a .50 cent an hour raise and she says he immediately began calculating how that would move his house purchase up.

It ain't easy, but it can still be done

[Robert Fischer]

Right now there is a disincentive involved with educating (and upward mobilization) of the general public.

If the general public suddenly became educated - These millions of mcdonalds,walmart,etc... workers would move from surplus to shortage.

Conglomerates would stand to lose billions.

Military would have a shortage.

Prisons would lose billions.

Our system is not built for vast changes.

Any 1 person in our system can make it. Work harder or smarter or have better fortune, it's certainly possible.

As for an entire general population?, - No, it is not possible.

This is the land of opportunity. You get some opportunities, you have a chance. You don't get a free ride.

[Stillriledup]

If they gave workers 14 an hour, is there nobody that they could get to work? Is 15 the amount where people draw the line?

[JustRalph]

If the general public suddenly became educated

Identify the "general public" in your post?

There are millions of underemployed college grads now.......

[Robert Fischer]

If they gave workers 14 an hour, is there nobody that they could get to work? Is 15 the amount where people draw the line?

They have a surplus at the current hourly rate - which is $7.25 nationally and higher in certain cities.

They could probably get people to work and fill these jobs for $2 or $3 an hour.

A minimum wage is an artificial protection for the lower class.

The leverage that the employers have is so great, that as a society we've come to agree that the lower class needs this artificial protection or they could be made to work for almost nothing, and some people would feel sympathy or feel uncomfortable seeing lower-class people working for almost nothing and being unable to support kids even if they worked 80hrs a week in these jobs.



Identify the "general public" in your post?

There are millions of underemployed college grads now.......
The general public is the majority of the population and the group that makes up the lower job-skill and income levels.
http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2014/long-tail2.png
the interpretation of the data would depend on perspective.

A wealthy person may (or may not) view the whole 'yellow' part as general population. However, a burger-flipper on the right flatter side of the yellow section, may view a teacher or radiology technician as relatively wealthy in comparison although they wouldn't be into the 'green'.

While there are many struggling college grads, - 70% of the population >age 25 does not have a bachelor degree.

[Tom]

Amen to your 3rd point. Our schools suck, even the private ones. But even with a better schools, someone still is needed to work at McDonalds and that person still has eat, pay rent, etc.

So you think those who make something of themselves and work harder and get good jobs should pay for those don't do the work?
I think many more of our students suck than their schools.

[Actor]

Data?Google "what does a McDonald's franchise cost?"

[Dave Schwartz]

Any 1 person in our system can make it. Work harder or smarter or have better fortune, it's certainly possible.

As for an entire general population?, - No, it is not possible.

So, we have two choices? One or ALL?

I did not say that NOBODY could make it. Of course some people make it. Some people don't graduate high school and still become doctors, lawyers, etc.

I am saying that it is MUCH HARDER than when we were young men and that we (of that age) should not be quite so critical of people who are in a difficult situation.

It is easy for us to say because it was easier for us to do.

[Tom]

Google "what does a McDonald's franchise cost?"

You think people buy them out of their walking around money?

[Tom]

If they gave workers 14 an hour, is there nobody that they could get to work? Is 15 the amount where people draw the line?

They are working there now, for a lot less, but still over-paid.
They do NOT contribute a valuable skill. Most anyone could do their jobs.
Most better.

[Actor]

All McDonald's are not owned by McDonald's.
Many are not evil corporate entities, but small businesses run by middle class people.

You think people buy them out of their walking around money?
You sound like boxcar. Taking a statement and pretending it means exactly the opposite of what it says.

[maddog42]

Having owned several small businesses, I would be in favor of raising the minimum to $9 an hour immediately and then phasing it in a dollar an hour every year until $12 is reached. Then reevaluate.

[Clocker]

Having owned several small businesses, I would be in favor of raising the minimum to $9 an hour immediately and then phasing it in a dollar an hour every year until $12 is reached. Then reevaluate.


If you own a small business, you can do that on your own without a government mandate.

[Robert Goren]

So you think those who make something of themselves and work harder and get good jobs should pay for those don't do the work?
I think many more of our students suck than their schools. Our school teach the kids to suck. The schools got a little better during the early part of this century with Bush's "No Student Left Behind". I could see it in the recent HS grads, I hired. I have told most of gains have been given back. The new attempt to improve our schools, Common Core, is pushed aside by those who do not want to what is necessary to improve schools. We need high national standards and the testing to make sure the students are actually learning. There are too teachers and too many school boards who are willing slide by with mediocrity when it comes to what our children learn. I firmly believe that the students are not the problem anywhere including the most underdeveloped countries and certainly not in the United States. Certainly children have different abilities, but almost all children will learn if taught. When we expect very little from the children, we will get very little. Today the schools expect so little from our children.

[JustRalph]

Our school teach the kids to suck. The schools got a little better during the early part of this century with Bush's "No Student Left Behind". I could see it in the recent HS grads, I hired. I have told most of gains have been given back. The new attempt to improve our schools, Common Core, is pushed aside by those who do not want to what is necessary to improve schools. We need high national standards and the testing to make sure the students are actually learning. There are too teachers and too many school boards who are willing slide by with mediocrity when it comes to what our children learn. I firmly believe that the students are not the problem anywhere including the most underdeveloped countries and certainly not in the United States. Certainly children have different abilities, but almost all children will learn if taught. When we expect very little from the children, we will get very little. Today the schools expect so little from our children.

Education is a State issue. Not a national one. There is no mandate in any of the founding documents for any Federal authority over education.

Kill the dept. Of education and return the entire responsibility back to the states.

[Clocker]

Kill the dept. Of education and return the entire responsibility back to the states.

The responsibility and the money.

Then do the same with the Dept. of Energy and the EPA.

And then the Dept. of Agriculture.

[Actor]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him pay 50% more for a Happy Meal.Unless you really want a happy meal (the alternative being to go home and cook) and Wendy's/Burger King/Rallys' are also charging 50% more.

Despite the settled science of minimum wagers in Washington, there are still some economist deniers who believe that if you raise the price of something, you sell fewer units.But in spite of selling fewer units you make a bigger profit. I recall this bell shaped curve from my college economics course which showed profit as a function of price. If you keep raising the price you eventually reach the optimum price which generates maximum profit. Raising the price beyond that and your profits fall.

Let's say your product costs $1 per unit and you charge $2 giving $1 profit per unit. If you sell 1,000,000 units per year you make $1,000,000. Now double your price to $4 giving $3 profit per unit. If doubling your price cuts your unit sales in half you make $1,500,000; 50% more before your price increase. Obviously this strategy hits a point of diminishing return. Doubling your price again to $8 per units causes sales to drop to zero. The trick is to figure out what the most profitable price is. The only reliable way to do that is trial and error.

In the case of workers the unit is an hour's unskilled labor. If the minimum wage is $7.50 and that gets doubled to $15 the fact is that management will not fire half of them to make it up. They may let maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of them go just to make a statement, but in the end the workers as a group will make more money.

By the way, flipping burgers is not unskilled labor. Just try cooking them at the rate of 100 per hour for an 8 hour shift and count how many you screw up and have to toss in the garbage. The guy who can get it right 99% of the time is worth more than minimum wage.

[Robert Goren]

Education is a State issue. Not a national one. There is no mandate in any of the founding documents for any Federal authority over education.

Kill the dept. Of education and return the entire responsibility back to the states.Local control of education is the number one reason our schools are in such bad shape. The question is do you want better schools? or do you want local control? Local control may have made sense in 1776. but not in today's mobile society. A kid that starts school in California and whose parents job get moved to Texas should be able to pick up in Texas where he left off in California. A kid in rural Nebraska should not penalized because the local school board would rather pay for an extra football coach than pay someone to teach coding. Local school boards and the states have been failing to give our children a decent education since the end of WWII. I don't see why we should continue down the path of putting citizens at a disadvantage by giving them an education that is among the worst in the industrial world.

[headhawg]

By the way, flipping burgers is not unskilled labor. Just try cooking them at the rate of 100 per hour for an 8 hour shift and count how many you screw up and have to toss in the garbage.By this definition, picking up the phone and calling in to say that you don't feel like flipping burgers today is "skilled labor" as well.

[Inner Dirt]

Dave, There are still people who can pull themselves up. But it's hard. I'm not sure it's any harder than when I was young. I worked multiple jobs. My wife did too. That formula still works.

Btw, I tell every young kid who inquires (many work for us) to go to a trade school and not a regular college. There are jobs all over the place here in Texas for mechanics and welders and other trades. Many starting in the 60k range. Machinist are being recruited very hard.

There are people still doing it the hard way. I was playing security at my wife's restaurant the other night after closing. Opening and closing the front doors as the employees were leaving. It was raining like hell. A 30 something kitchen employee was leaving. I remembered that he normally rides a bike. I asked if he had to ride his bike in the rain tonight. He said yes. I offered to toss his bike in my truck and drive him home, but he would have to wait about a half hour.

He declined, quickly explaining that he could be home in five minutes albeit wet, but he could use that half hours sleep. Off he went.

I inquired with my wife about him. She explained he works two restaurant jobs within about ten minutes biking time. 80-84 hours a week. The wife works also. She normally keeps the car. They have a baby and are saving to buy a house. He says he is half way to paying cash for his first house. My wife recently gave him a .50 cent an hour raise and she says he immediately began calculating how that would move his house purchase up.

It ain't easy, but it can still be done

Don't know how old you are but at 54 things are obviously harder on entry level workers in jobs that don't require a degree. First the $2.50 an hour minimum wage went further than the $7.25 or whatever it is today does.
A few examples when I first got my driver's license and first job at 16 in 1977. My Grandma had a decent one bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood in Anaheim California for $155 a month, 62 gross hours at minimum wage. Believe it or not those apartments are still there but the rent starts at $1195, 132.77 gross hours at the California $9 an hour minimum wage. Also they are now in a bad high crime area, so they are less desirable. Gas was $.53 a gallon it is now $2.79 in the same area, gas is over 5x as much while minimum wage in the area is 3.6x as much.

Not only does minimum wage not buy near what it would when I was first working, entry level wages have dropped to minimum wage on jobs that used to pay much more than that. A few examples when it was $2.50 an hour a box boy as they were called then would start at $4.75 at a major chain supermarket. At 16 I lied about my age and got an entry level job working in a manufacturing plant for $3.60 an hour with no skills, that was 44% higher than minimum wage, those jobs start at minimum wage now.

I am not saying some of these young workers are not to blame for their predicament. A lot of them are lazy and addicted to their cell phone, you aren't moving up the food chain if your boss sees you goofing off all the time. By the way I am self-employed I am here goofing off on my own dime.

My 18 year old nephew was a good example I hired him as a shop hand knowing his propensity for lack of attention I paid him piece work for production jobs. I gave him a couple thousand parts to remove the sharp edges on. I did some and timed myself, working at a moderate speed the job was worth $15 an hour, hauling ass you could make $25 an hour, there was $200 of work on that job. If that was the 18 year old me I would have worked 100 mph till they were done only stopping 2 minutes to cram down a sandwich and a few quick bathroom breaks, then said "What is next?"

My nephew worked about 15 minutes out of every hour and took all week, I would have had them done in a day even in my 50's.

[Tom]

You sound like boxcar. Taking a statement and pretending it means exactly the opposite of what it says.

You are the one comparing privately owned stores to corporate owned stores.
And you doubt anyone could do a McJob?
Maybe you have tried and failed...... ;) :D

[johnhannibalsmith]

Having owned several small businesses, I would be in favor of raising the minimum to $9 an hour immediately and then phasing it in a dollar an hour every year until $12 is reached. Then reevaluate.

Certainly a blatantly better idea than what we usually get in output from these conversations - a posthumous grudge match between crusty economists and their extrapolated theories. Common sense goes a long way.

[delayjf]

The land down under is, of course, not the only high-wage country in the world where McDonald's does lucrative business. The company actually earns more revenue out of Europe than than it does from the United States. France, with its roughly $12.00 hourly minimum, has more than 1,200 locations. (Australia has about 900).

The land down under also does not allow 1 million unskilled workers into their work force every year who are willing to work for less.

[Inner Dirt]

I am a small machine shop owner I took a big hit during the great recession, I was selling my own product to the Limousine Industry which died and never came back. Unfortunately as I was acquiring market share the market was shrinking faster than my share was growing. Figuring my products were better made and quicker to install than the competition while priced similar I could corner the market and "when" things rebounded things would be great.

I had 5 employees and treated them well, free sodas, energy drinks and I usually paid for lunch and dinner for those working later hours. Since I had machines dedicated to certain parts and expected increased volume I let the employees set their own hours as long as they produced the minimum weekly amount of widgets or more. I let one kid who had a long commute and worked long hours to stay in my house Monday thru Friday and paid for all his food (At 18, 6'8" and 300 pounds that wasn't cheap) I also started no skill people at $10 an hour and mapped out what skills they needed to acquire to get a raise and it was all on the job training, there wasn't a time constraint, a fast leaner could get a dollar an hour raise every other week.

Now becoming captain hindsight the limousine industry was riding high on a false economy right when I jumped on the sinking ship. Most limousine purchases are made by transportation companies, not the Shaquille Oneal's of the world (I actually made a custom product for one of his cars, I touched Shaq's car, whooopeee!). In the area I lived the real estate boom had people pulling out equity to live beyond their means. Renting limousines to ride to the airport or out to dinner were one of those things. Another big thing was Las Vegas, every strip club in town wanted a brand new limousine with all the bells and whistles to pick up customers that had deep pockets.
Deep pocked people from the neighboring state of California who cashed in home equity.

My problem was I cared too much about the people I employed, I kept them way longer than I should on the sinking ship, a lot of the product they made got tossed in the dumpster when I moved from California in 2011, I could not sell it for even 10 cents on the dollar. Looking back on the 3 year run making my own product if I outsourced to China (easy parts I spent $30 per $100 to make them here, could have got them $10 per $100 from China) I would have cleared $500,000 in 3 years doing nothing, if I would have been a normal boss, no perks and starting to lay people off as soon as things declined I would have made $300,000 in 3 years. Instead the way I did things I had a 3 year run of making $0.

The moral of the story should I have been ruthless and made $500,000 or a nice guy and made $0 or something in between? A word of note I would have been the most skilled at any job I hired out.

[newtothegame]

Its a few years old, the story that is, but didn't someone talk about how Europe was so much better then us with the min wage (in relation to McD's)?

http://www.cnet.com/news/mcdonalds-hires-7000-touch-screen-cashiers/

Just thought it was relevant

[Stillriledup]

Thanks RF and Tom for the response(s) to my post.

How about this idea. Let people BID on jobs, put in an application and list what is the lowest amount of money you would work for and the person who puts the lowest out of the qualified candidates, gets the job with the savings passed onto the consumer.

Would that NOT create a better economy if these companies lowered their prices because they didn't have to pay employees way more than a "supply and demand" rate?

[davew]

Thanks RF and Tom for the response(s) to my post.

How about this idea. Let people BID on jobs, put in an application and list what is the lowest amount of money you would work for and the person who puts the lowest out of the qualified candidates, gets the job with the savings passed onto the consumer.

Would that NOT create a better economy if these companies lowered their prices because they didn't have to pay employees way more than a "supply and demand" rate?


No, because the DEMS made your company and now want to tell you how to run it. For all of their illegal immigrants, they need a certain wage so they have enough left over to vote for and donate to the DNC.

[Robert Fischer]

buy-1-get-1 chicken nuggets deal , would probably pacify my political protestations

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDJX1HJWMAIaeLk.jpg

[delayjf]

She also pays about 50% of her income in taxes. Also, the pay rates for 21 year old and teenagers is not the same - they are capped at 15 an hour. I wonder which age bracket they prefer to recruit. I would also be willing to bet they operate their MCDs with fewer employees than in the US.

[Clocker]

She also pays about 50% of her income in taxes.

Some people always want to ruin the narrative with reality. :rolleyes:

Denmark has a 25% VAT on consumer goods and significantly higher consumer prices. That $0.56 figure for a Big Mac is nonsense. Numbers I've seen indicate that restaurant prices are about 50% higher over there, so I'd guess somebody saw 56 percent more for a Big Mac and read it as 56 cents more. That graphic apparently came from a US union, so the "error" is no big surprise.

Some McDonald workers over there make $21 an hour. Younger workers make a lot less. And McDonald workers make more than most fast food workers.

[rastajenk]

Yeah, let's be more like Europe. They do everything so well over there: total war, genocides, anti-semitism, ghetto-ization. Lovely creatures they are, real role models for sure. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Over there, Mikey Dee is high end gourmet food! :lol: