Can someone please help me out here.....

[coachv30]

Are the pick four pools that low at Miami Valley?

I just hit the pick four with the following horses:

Race 7: :2: - M/L 7-1 OFF @ 10-1

Race 8: :6: - ML 2-1 OFF @ 3/5

Race 9: :4: - ML 7-1 OFF @ 3-1

Race 10: :2: ML 5-1 OFF @ 7-2

Now.....the will pays showed that there were 5 of the 9 horses running that would have paid $23.30. This usually spells out consolation 3 of 4. The :2: horse was at $70.40. I thought that there must be a mistake here..

Sure enough.............$1 Pick four paid $70.40!!

I spent $36 on the damn ticket. :bang:


PS. Any way that I can access the Pool?

[mrroyboy]

That doesn't make sense Coach. I don't know exactly who you should call but persue this.

[Augie16]

i would get in touch with RTD if it were me. He resolved the payout vs. pool dilemma at the Meadowlands.

[coachv30]

I just PM'ed RTD.......thanks guys!!

[RaceTrackDaddy]

i would get in touch with RTD if it were me. He resolved the payout vs. pool dilemma at the Meadowlands.

I try to get away and you guys just pull me back in... just joking.

I checked the pool. Seems Miami Valley is one of the small pool tracks that have very little in it.

Attached is the pools for Race 7 tonight. There was only 314 bucks in the pick 4. Based on the payout, there had to be 7 fifty cent tickets cashed on that pool (based on a 20 percent retention).

Seems that the only times one sees me betting into a harness race pick-x is when the track guarantees the pool at least 5k or more. It is not worth playing given the small pools.

[coachv30]

I try to get away and you guys just pull me back in... just joking.

I checked the pool. Seems Miami Valley is one of the small pool tracks that have very little in it.

Attached is the pools for Race 7 tonight. There was only 314 bucks in the pick 4. Based on the payout, there had to be 7 fifty cent tickets cashed on that pool (based on a 20 percent retention).

Seems that the only times one sees me betting into a harness race pick-x is when the track guarantees the pool at least 5k or more. It is not worth playing given the small pools.


Thanks RTD......that is strange however. My ticket cost $36 alone. Also, the will pay on the 8 was $478.00.

[ReplayRandall]

Thanks RTD......that is strange however. My ticket cost $36 alone. Also, the will pay on the 8 was $478.00.
.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Thanks RTD......that is strange however. My ticket cost $36 alone. Also, the will pay on the 8 was $478.00.
you're welcome
That payout is based on a $2 ticket. In this case, the (# 8) had $1 in total wagered on him/her or $239. If you had the 8 live, you would have taken down the pool.

[coachv30]

you're welcome
That payout is based on a $2 ticket. In this case, the (# 8) had $1 in total wagered on him/her or $239. If you had the 8 live, you would have taken down the pool.

I actually had 2,6 and 8.

[Stillriledup]

the pool was 314.

[coachv30]

BTW...what a crap pool!!! All of the harness tracks running tonite and I choose MVR to play my pick four :bang:

[Stillriledup]

BTW...what a crap pool!!! All of the harness tracks running tonite and I choose MVR to play my pick four :bang:

It would have been under 300 if you didnt play.

Live and learn.

Buffalo pick 4 starting in race 5 tonight had a pool of 1900

Pompano Pick 4 starting in Race 5 had a pool of 4900

Northfield Pick 4 starting in race 8 had a pool of almost 17k

Even Pocono's pick 4 had 2800 in it.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

It would have been under 300 if you didnt play.

Live and learn.

Buffalo pick 4 starting in race 5 tonight had a pool of 1900

Pompano Pick 4 starting in Race 5 had a pool of 4900

Northfield Pick 4 starting in race 8 had a pool of almost 17k

Even Pocono's pick 4 had 2800 in it.

The one thing in harness racing that has been most consistent has been the large handles at Northfield Park over the years. I can't explain it, but they seem to bring out the money. Each race usually gets 60k to 70k bet in it. A half mile track racing all year gets a lot more money through the windows than what one would expect given their purse structure.

Anyone know why they get so much handle given the condition of this sport?

[cmp92]

The one thing in harness racing that has been most consistent has been the large handles at Northfield Park over the years. I can't explain it, but they seem to bring out the money. Each race usually gets 60k to 70k bet in it. A half mile track racing all year gets a lot more money through the windows than what one would expect given their purse structure.

Anyone know why they get so much handle given the condition of this sport?
My guess is that they have a simulcast signal at every track and maybe some Vegas betting?

[Stillriledup]

The one thing in harness racing that has been most consistent has been the large handles at Northfield Park over the years. I can't explain it, but they seem to bring out the money. Each race usually gets 60k to 70k bet in it. A half mile track racing all year gets a lot more money through the windows than what one would expect given their purse structure.

Anyone know why they get so much handle given the condition of this sport?

It is odd that this is the place where money gravitates towards. You would think that chicago bettors would gravitate towards Balmoral since its a bigger track, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

No clue why the "Attraction" to the Flying turns.

[harnpar]

That's correct for at least the last 25 years they simulcast their signal to practically every venue that takes Meadowlands ,Balmoral,and Woodbine/ Mohawk,always aggressive in getting their signal everywhere possible and they in turn simulcast every track available including all Canadian B tracks.
Also the fact they have 2 very live and always trying drivers= Wrenn and Merriman helps generate handle as bettors feel confident having a key on top of exotic wagering.

[pandy]

Northfield, has some have said, does do a very good job at getting their signal out and they also have a lot of 9 horse fields (instead of 8), which helps. The fact that it's a half mile track and often handles a million a night is amazing when you consider that for the past five years or so the industry trend has seen handle shift to the two turn tracks. If you look at half mile and five eighth tracks, only Northfield and Yonkers have decent handle. Otherwise it's all two turn tracks that have decent handle, Balmoral, Cal Expo, Hoosier, Meadowlands, Mohawk, and Woodbine. There isn't a single five eighth's track that does well, yet they keep building them (???)

[baconswitchfarm]

Northfield, has some have said, does do a very good job at getting their signal out and they also have a lot of 9 horse fields (instead of 8), which helps. The fact that it's a half mile track and often handles a million a night is amazing when you consider that for the past five years or so the industry trend has seen handle shift to the two turn tracks. If you look at half mile and five eighth tracks, only Northfield and Yonkers have decent handle. Otherwise it's all two turn tracks that have decent handle, Balmoral, Cal Expo, Hoosier, Meadowlands, Mohawk, and Woodbine. There isn't a single five eighth's track that does well, yet they keep building them (???)


Monticello also handles more than every 5/8 track. I have explained before. The horsemen don't want to race on a half. The tracks don't want the giant expense of upkeep on a mile track. So they split the difference and build the track size the bettors don't want. It makes sense in a game ran to keep the horsemen and track owners happy with no concern for the actual customers.

[traynor]

The one thing in harness racing that has been most consistent has been the large handles at Northfield Park over the years. I can't explain it, but they seem to bring out the money. Each race usually gets 60k to 70k bet in it. A half mile track racing all year gets a lot more money through the windows than what one would expect given their purse structure.

Anyone know why they get so much handle given the condition of this sport?

1) Nfld is one of the easiest tracks for a bettor to earn a healthy profit.

2) Nfld attracts a number of "serious bettors" because of 1).

3) Nfld attracts a number of "semi-serious bettors" who reverse engineer what the "serious bettors" are doing, and locate/have located/continue to locate deficiencies in the strategies used by the "serious bettors" enough to make healthy profits by leveraging inflated odds on entries other than those backed by the "serious bettors."

4) It goes up and down, but nobody wants to kill the cash cow that benefits so many. Over-betting is not useful, and greed is rewarded far more over time than it would be in a handful of coups.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Traynor,

Isn't the NFLD signal sold on the cheap, allowing ADWs to offer rich rebates to large players? That was always my impression?

[traynor]

Traynor,

Isn't the NFLD signal sold on the cheap, allowing ADWs to offer rich rebates to large players? That was always my impression?

I think it is far more the winning that encourages large bettors, rather than the rebates. The rebates only benefit if the ROI is high enough for return (with or without rebates) to be in the profit zone.

An ROI drops like a rock when money is added to the pools. The whole trick is to juggle the ROI, the rebates, and the wager size in optimal proportions. If one is winning, it takes very little to escalate wagers to the point where wagering more reduces the return. That cap is dynamic, and has to be continually tweaked, but betting half as much to win more is always a good strategy.

If one can't make significant wagers and get an ROI enough to make rebates worthwhile (ROI + rebates > 1.00), one is well advised to look elsewhere.

[baconswitchfarm]

Traynor,

Isn't the NFLD signal sold on the cheap, allowing ADWs to offer rich rebates to large players? That was always my impression?


The signal fee they charge is the general standard. In fact the take outs in Ohio are quite low which forces some of the smallest rebates in harness .

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Just think the time is right to relay one of the stories from our past that brings a smile every time I think of Northfield Park.

The time frame is the late 1980's, we were working at the Meadows and our day off was Wednesdays. Nfld ran a card on those days. We used to take turns driving up the turnpike to check out racing there.

One time we arrived early and saw Lesley and Lisa Dunn at the concession booth. We stopped over and asked if they brought anything up to race there? They said turn to race #x in the form, we see that Justa___ had the nine hole with a guy we never heard, Bill Blaney, listed to drive. We asked the girls if he is capable and they assured us, dad thinks so (their dad is Walter Dunn).

We took a shot keying that one on top using four other underneath. The (# 9) went off at 3/1 but we caught a 40/1 for the place spot in the exacta. The $2 ticket returned $269 (that we had for a $10 ticket). In the winner circle we stood next to Walter who told us to come back up on Saturday night as another of the Justa____ horses is in the Invite with a big chance to win.

That was great info as that horse did indeed win and the exacta came back to pay about $125 or so. That was a strange weekend. We had three tracks that had horses that we were given to bet, Nfld, Mea and ScD. We had to split up the group and we ended up hitting all three tracks that night. I remained at the Mea placing my bets while I was working. We all met up at a local bar called The Finish Line and split the booty. That week all started with a trip to Nfld all because of the lack of simulcasting.

I miss the old days of my youth.

[JLB]

Maybe because there is plenty of movement, as opposed to the yawnfest at tracks like Yonkers