American racing: Almost dead?

[speculus]

Assessment of current American horse racing scene by a top British newspaper:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/10/american-horse-racing-isnt-dead-but-its-getting-awfully-close

[RacingFan1992]

Why not a match race? (Kidding)

[WP1981]

I don't know if it will die naturally or be outlawed first. I am seeing more and more anti racing sentimate and eventually a politician will run with it. The day will come, when it will come who knows.

[tzipi]

They should've got rid of drug trainers a long time ago, but they didn't. It ruined the sport for many people. I used to put in a few thousands of dollars a year betting up until about 2 years ago. So many better and safer investments today. I only bet the Derby and Breeders Cup Saturday now. The Daily Racing Form is pointless now. Past performances do not show who's going to be running on drugs today or what trainer has hid his horses to run on something undetectable today. A horse running up the track at $20,000 CLM numerous times, then runs lights out to beat the same horses he's got crushed by the last 5 times at bet down odds to win by 3 going away today.
Drug trainers are allowed to come back to the sport time and time again after numerous doping infractions. It's always in the papers during big media time for racing and it's been a big sign for people to stay away from what I've seen with friends.

I mean even look at the "late money Gulfstream" thread. The sport is killing itself to the point it's past ever coming back in the public eye. Way too many excuses have been made for way too many years. It's a shame. Such a great sport.

Also whales on computers have ruined it. I know so many people, including myself who would bet exacta's based on the closing numbers on the tote board or screens and then see a huge drop as the official prices come up. It was never like that years ago. I gave up and have moved on money wise. But, I will still watch the big races. :)

[Cratos]

Assessment of current American horse racing scene by a top British newspaper:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/10/american-horse-racing-isnt-dead-but-its-getting-awfully-close
I don''t disagree that the high takeout is not a cancer on horseracing in America, but that is not what is impinging this slow death on racing.

Racing has two major problems that will eventually kill it even if the take was zero.

They are of equal importance; and the first is a single private organization to oversee and regulate racing with a single set of tough, but fair rules that are the same in all racing jurisdictions.

In parallel, would be the development and introduction of 21st Century tools for handicapping and data acquisition.

I believe the potential bettor today is not interested and definitely not motivated by the antiquated methods of handicapping and acquiring data for the wagering on horseracing.

For example it took MLB over a 100 years to understand that the inning was was the wrong metric for determining work of a pitcher and along came Bill James with Sabermetrics and the pitch count along with other meaningful metrics were born.

The same can happen in horse racing; it is time for the "beaten length" be given its eulogy. This is a time-distance sport and the tools are here and ready for implementation.

Don 't stand back and say it is too "costly" because that is the same argument the automakers used when they were asked to make safer fuel-efficient cars which they could do, but wouldn't. However when they were forced too, they became technological efficient and coupled with the multiplier effect they haven't looked back.

Horseracing can do the same and using technology with the multiplier effect would allow the take to be significantly reduced; and national unification with tough but fair regulations would create growth in both attendance and revenues because if there is one thing we Americans like; it is gambling

[Some_One]

I don''t disagree that the high takeout is not a cancer on horseracing in America, but that is not what is impinging this slow death on racing.

Racing has two major problems that will eventually kill it even if the take was zero.

They are of equal importance; and the first is a single private organization to oversee and regulate racing with a single set of tough, but fair rules that are the same in all racing jurisdictions.

In parallel, would be the development and introduction of 21st Century tools for handicapping and data acquisition.

I believe the potential bettor today is not interested and definitely not motivated by the antiquated methods of handicapping and acquiring data for the wagering on horseracing.

For example it took MLB over a 100 years to understand that the inning was was the wrong metric for determining work of a pitcher and along came Bill James with Sabermetrics and the pitch count along with other meaningful metrics were born.

The same can happen in horse racing; it is time for the "beaten length" be given its eulogy. This is a time-distance sport and the tools are here and ready for implementation.

Don 't stand back and say it is too "costly" because that is the same argument the automakers used when they were asked to make safer fuel-efficient cars which they could do, but wouldn't. However when they were forced too, they became technological efficient and coupled with the multiplier effect they haven't looked back.

Horseracing can do the same and using technology with the multiplier effect would allow the take to be significantly reduced; and national unification with tough but fair regulations would create growth in both attendance and revenues because if there is one thing we Americans like; it is gambling

BS, America has more data than their UK and Aussie counterparts, but on a per capita basis, handle in Aussieland is 30X larger per race then the US.

[tzipi]

I believe the potential bettor today is not interested and definitely not motivated by the antiquated methods of handicapping and acquiring data for the wagering on horseracing.


I will say I am from the younger crowd and in terms of acquiring data for investments, we will go through more hell than horse racing could ever provide. For us, it's not the data or antiquated methods. It's the sport itself and what's it become with drugs...... AND I love the sport! I grew up with it from my father.

[Cratos]

BS, America has more data than their UK and Aussie counterparts, but on a per capita basis, handle in Aussieland is 30X larger per race then the US.
First all you either misread or misunderstood my post because I never referred to the amount of data.

My reference was to data acquisition and I don't care if you are obtaining kilobytes or nanobytes the acquisition is important.

The current framework of the horse past performance is on a normalized. distance with virtual timing.

From the current data with the exception of Trakus there is no way to calculate the speed of the horse and without the horse's weight it will difficult to determine energy.

What I am driving at is that if you were given the physics of horseracing you might find it to be a different game.

Don't misunderstand me again because I also believe that drugs need to cleaned up in racing.

[Cratos]

I will say I am from the younger crowd and in terms of acquiring data for investments, we will go through more hell than horse racing could ever provide. For us, it's not the data or antiquated methods. It's the sport itself and what's it become with drugs...... AND I love the sport! I grew up with it from my father.
Just for the record I am a consulting engineer with a MBA and have worked in a variety of industries that use large volumes of data for product development and product introduction.
Now that we are pass our professional skills I will say to you also it is not the amount of data, but the structure and type of data.

[tzipi]

Just for the record I am a consulting engineer with a MBA and have worked in a variety of industries that use large volumes of data for product development and product introduction.
Now that we are pass our professional skills I will say to you also it is not the amount of data, but the structure and type of data.

Whoa, I never said what I did or my actual professional skills. Wasn't about that. I'm sure you're good with numbers and very capable. No doubt. All I said was, for the younger crowd it's not about data or anything. It's about the game itself and it's declining intergrity. It's why you see the young crowd out at Belmont on nice weekend summer days to have a little fun with their money and see the horses, but no where near a track or OTB during the summer weeks or colder months.

[tzipi]

It's a great game Cratos, I agree. But the game has been passed by so many other games, sports, and investment ventures, today. Whether it be technology, or websites, or real estate, etc. A poster started a thread about the game dying and I just gave my opinion. I used to go to the track a ton of times with friends and spend good money, but almost everyone has stopped. I just gave my reasons why. That's all. Our reason for stopping? Drug trainers who are allowed to come back time and time again, muddied and useless past performances with hidden "surprise claim" horses and "super trainers" and high takeout.

My initial post was just saying for one, they should've thrown out these drug trainers years ago and put their foot down and not make excuses for them. They ruined the game for a lot of people who started to get into it.

[Stillriledup]

I don''t disagree that the high takeout is not a cancer on horseracing in America, but that is not what is impinging this slow death on racing.

Racing has two major problems that will eventually kill it even if the take was zero.

They are of equal importance; and the first is a single private organization to oversee and regulate racing with a single set of tough, but fair rules that are the same in all racing jurisdictions.

In parallel, would be the development and introduction of 21st Century tools for handicapping and data acquisition.

I believe the potential bettor today is not interested and definitely not motivated by the antiquated methods of handicapping and acquiring data for the wagering on horseracing.

For example it took MLB over a 100 years to understand that the inning was was the wrong metric for determining work of a pitcher and along came Bill James with Sabermetrics and the pitch count along with other meaningful metrics were born.

The same can happen in horse racing; it is time for the "beaten length" be given its eulogy. This is a time-distance sport and the tools are here and ready for implementation.

Don 't stand back and say it is too "costly" because that is the same argument the automakers used when they were asked to make safer fuel-efficient cars which they could do, but wouldn't. However when they were forced too, they became technological efficient and coupled with the multiplier effect they haven't looked back.

Horseracing can do the same and using technology with the multiplier effect would allow the take to be significantly reduced; and national unification with tough but fair regulations would create growth in both attendance and revenues because if there is one thing we Americans like; it is gambling

The problem with the single pvt organization theory is that it assumes that "horse racing" is sort of like a "league" when in reality, tracks and different track owners have nothing to do with each other for the most part. We THINK they have something to do with each other because they use equines as their main product, but in reality, most of these tracks are in the gambling business, they're not in the HORSE business. We want them to be in the horse business because we want all the tracks to essentially work together to cultivate a "Sport" but in reality, everyone is a separate entity that's really all about gambling....they just run horses because that's the only way their state would approve a "license" to conduct gambling. They would run ant races if they could, much less expensive.

[lamboguy]

its pretty hard to proclaim racing dead when a place like Oaklawn averages over 20,000 people a day showing up culminated by 67,000 for their derby, orKeenland drawing 25,000 and 40,000 for a big stakes day. Santa Anita has been getting 15,000 on regular weekends, Gulfstream averaged 20,000 on weekends this year, while Tampa was over 10,000. there are big numbers that show up for simulcast in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

[Robert Fischer]

Racing is what it is.

The 'limiting factor' is their use of the media. They either do not see and understand the system, or there are forces that provide disincentive to use the media properly and then grow accordingly.

You always hear about it being 'almost dead'. We have a great year so far, for what it is.

[lamboguy]

there certainly are some problems to work out. one of the biggest ones is what i see with Monmouth Park. they happen to put out a great product, that draws plenty of people to the track yet loses close to $4 million a year and happens to make up their live product loss with more than that from their imported signals. but still if you take away simulcasting revenues they would be dead and gone.

the same must happen in other places and i doubt if they are as successful as Monmouth is.

basically what i am trying to say is that instead of focusing in on live racing, most places want to generate revenues from imported simulcast signal's. that business model helps the speed the decline in American racing.

[rastajenk]

Totally on target, especially that last sentence.

[therussmeister]

there certainly are some problems to work out. one of the biggest ones is what i see with Monmouth Park. they happen to put out a great product, that draws plenty of people to the track yet loses close to $4 million a year and happens to make up their live product loss with more than that from their imported signals. but still if you take away simulcasting revenues they would be dead and gone.

the same must happen in other places and i doubt if they are as successful as Monmouth is.

basically what i am trying to say is that instead of focusing in on live racing, most places want to generate revenues from imported simulcast signal's. that business model helps the speed the decline in American racing.
That's because the tracks sell their signal for too little, and therefore can buy other signals for a bargain rate. Yet when tracks try to get a higher price for their signal, sentiment on this site seems to be against the tracks asking for more money.

[PaceAdvantage]

Whoa, I never said what I did or my actual professional skills. Wasn't about that. I'm sure you're good with numbers and very capable. No doubt. All I said was, for the younger crowd it's not about data or anything. It's about the game itself and it's declining intergrity. It's why you see the young crowd out at Belmont on nice weekend summer days to have a little fun with their money and see the horses, but no where near a track or OTB during the summer weeks or colder months.I was always the youngest in my local OTB more times than not...and this was 20-25 years ago....nothing has changed as far as that goes...there was never a "young" crowd at the OTBs during the summer weeks or colder months.

[badcompany]

I was always the youngest in my local OTB more times than not...and this was 20-25 years ago....nothing has changed as far as that goes...there was never a "young" crowd at the OTBs during the summer weeks or colder months.

This is one of the bright spots of Horseracing.

You can be 50 and still be called "Kid." :)

[DeltaLover]

The quality of the data and the sophistication behind collecting them, is not one of the reasons why the game is dying here in the States and has absolutely nothing to with the fact, that since the last quarter of the century, gamblers have shifted their interest to other games!

As the article correctly states, one of the fundamental reasons of the decline, can be found in the lack of centralized administration which will improve the sporting side of the game, enforcing less racing, transparency, draconian drug rules etc.

The other equally important reason can be seen in the extremely unfavourable betting mechanisms that have prevailed, eliminating any realistic possibility for a handicapper to become a consistent winning bettor.

The way the game is conducted in Northern America is all about its insiders and nothing about the bettors, who are simply viewed as addicts, who no matter what kind of a robbery will be committed against them, they will always come back the next day, to deposit their hard earned dollars.. Horse bettors are nothing more that the easy prey of the various types of "horsemen" who keep on hassling on them, applying increasingly more sophisticated methods to make their living..

Illegal drugs, horse who are transforming their conditions without a reason, jockey's riding errors that often occur when aboard the favourites (and always go without any kind of a penalty) are among the plots used by the 'insiders' to keep on milking the cow...

Of course, racinos and slot money, represent another equally important factor for the degeneration of the sport, working solely for the welfare of the 'insiders', who have found a great way to make big bucks running their miserable $5K claimers contesting purses that represent multiple time the value of each starter in the race....

[Saratoga_Mike]

That's because the tracks sell their signal for too little, and therefore can buy other signals for a bargain rate. Yet when tracks try to get a higher price for their signal, sentiment on this site seems to be against the tracks asking for more money.

Exactly right. The tracks are never allowed to right that wrong, according to most on here.

[Cratos]

Racing is what it is.

The 'limiting factor' is their use of the media. They either do not see and understand the system, or there are forces that provide disincentive to use the media properly and then grow accordingly.

You always hear about it being 'almost dead'. We have a great year so far, for what it is.
An excellent point. I frequently wonder why ESPN, the major sports news provider in the US dosen't provide more general sports news about horseracing.

This year potents to be one of the best years in thoroughbred racing in a long time with an exciting 3yo group of horses along with a solid group of older horses and the general sports news providers are providing very little news.

[horses4courses]

I find it interesting that a highly respected UK publication,
such as The Guardian, is looking at the struggles in US racing.

It's not as if the game is flourishing over there.
I haven't seen purses as low as they currently are in years.
Bookmakers continue to thrive through expanded online wagering
worldwide, and by putting slot machines in their thousands of
betting shops. It's obvious that they haven't contributed much
of their newly found revenue into horse racing.
Yes, the UK government taxes them,but I very much doubt
whether racing sees much of the benefit.

Horse racing has not been a growth sport in decades, whether
in the UK, or the US. We have our own unique problems, yes,
with more drugs and a lack of a governing body. To say that
the product in Britain is superior, though, is a bit of a stretch.

[Track Collector]

One of the problems with Horseracing that I almost never see mentioned is something that is inherent in the sport, and because of that, it will be almost impossible to get it up to par with other competing interests. The problem is the SPEED of the stimulation. Live races might go off as frequently as 23 minutes. Simulcast races might be available every few minutes.

Contrast that with other competing interests. The dealing of a Texas holdem hand might take 2-3 minutes, but most/all the players have a keen and vested interest up through the hand conclusion. Casino table games like blackjack and craps usually have outcomes determined in 10-15 seconds. Slot machines might specify outcomes in 5 seconds or less.

There was a commercial a few years ago that is typical of the average person's mindset. One person would be sharing a text message they just received about some type of news, and another person would say something like "oh, that news is so 12 seconds ago", meaning that they already received the same info, except earlier. As a society we are driven to want information faster, and that paradigm and desire will continue towards even faster speed. Conversely, slower things will be less likely to hold our attention, and ultimately be moved away from.

Horseracing does have unique aspects like the challenge of analyzing of data, which have the "potential" to attract new long-term players, but it will never return to the glory days of yesteryear.

[DeltaLover]

Horseracing does have unique aspects like the challenge of analyzing of data, which have the "potential" to attract new long-term players, but it will never return to the glory days of yesteryear.

Why?

Why racing is thriving in HK, Japan or Australia but can never return to the glory of yesteryear here in US?

[Robert Goren]

I think racing is in the shape it is in because historically it has never competed with itself. Racing would be a different game if NYC or LA or other places would have had 2 or more race tracks running at the same time. Try to imagine Las Vegas with only one casino. It would be a far different place. The tracks would have become a lot more leaner and meaner if they had to have competed for bettors. As it is now, it is an overpriced and generally poor quality product. It is losing its customers not only to other forms of gambling, but to other forms of entertainment as well. It may be too late for it to survive in a meaningful way. Certainly, the industry is unwilling or unable to make the changes it needs to make to attract new bettors. Even today, the industry is working hard to keep ADWs from competing for bettors and spurring what little interest there might be from younger potential bettors.

[Stillriledup]

Why?

Why racing is thriving in HK, Japan or Australia but can never return to the glory of yesteryear here in US?
Because this game in America is run strictly for the owners, trainers and jockeys. Its not "Set up" for the customer.

[RXB]

I thought the article did nothing but state the obvious while offering little of substance.

But it was worth reading just for this piece of comedy:

“CDI as a company is still very committed to racing“ said Courtney Norris {Churchill Downs Inc. talking head}

:lol:

[DeltaLover]

Because this game in America is run strictly for the owners, trainers and jockeys. Its not "Set up" for the customer.

Thanks

[Grits]

I thought the article did nothing but state the obvious while offering little of substance.

But it was worth reading just for this piece of comedy:

“CDI as a company is still very committed to racing“ said Courtney Norris {Churchill Downs Inc. talking head}

:lol:

Think you're correct. And, if the traffic at this website, in recent weeks, along the Derby trail while in addition, the coming weeks of the Triple Crown trail, is any indicator? The Brits are way, way off.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Approx 50% of Churchill's 2014 EBITDA (proxy for cash flow) was from the racing side of the biz. Casino side may be the growth biz, but racing's still impt.

[Stillriledup]

Thanks

You're welcome. :D

[RXB]

Approx 50% of Churchill's 2014 EBITDA (proxy for cash flow) was from the racing side of the biz. Casino side may be the growth biz, but racing's still impt.

CDI let Calder go to seed; happily, Florida racing is finally freed from CDI and just look at the handle jump as a result. CDI was/is committed to the casino at Calder, not the racing.

In the same vein, onto more of Ms. Norris' spin:

"And we have made major improvements to Fair Grounds..."

Only under threats of having their casino license revoked a year ago by the state of Louisiana unless they stopped allowing the turf course and other racing facilities to fall into disrepair.

"and they had just concluded an excellent meet."

Their daily handle finally went up by 10% after falling by more than half in the past decade under CDI's watch. If handling a little over $2 million daily is "excellent" for a track that was doing more than $4 million a decade ago... well, I have a rather different concept of what "excellent" means.

At the home track, if increasing the takeout across the board in a big way and then watching handle plummet in response is "commitment to racing," then I guess I also have very different ideas on what that phrase actually means, too.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Revenue also declined at every casino they owned in 2014 (excluding Oxford--acq'd mid-2013).

[JustRalph]

They should've got rid of drug trainers a long time ago, but they didn't. It ruined the sport for many people. I used to put in a few thousands of dollars a year betting up until about 2 years ago. So many better and safer investments today. I only bet the Derby and Breeders Cup Saturday now. The Daily Racing Form is pointless now. Past performances do not show who's going to be running on drugs today or what trainer has hid his horses to run on something undetectable today. A horse running up the track at $20,000 CLM numerous times, then runs lights out to beat the same horses he's got crushed by the last 5 times at bet down odds to win by 3 going away today.
Drug trainers are allowed to come back to the sport time and time again after numerous doping infractions. It's always in the papers during big media time for racing and it's been a big sign for people to stay away from what I've seen with friends.

I mean even look at the "late money Gulfstream" thread. The sport is killing itself to the point it's past ever coming back in the public eye. Way too many excuses have been made for way too many years. It's a shame. Such a great sport.

Also whales on computers have ruined it. I know so many people, including myself who would bet exacta's based on the closing numbers on the tote board or screens and then see a huge drop as the official prices come up. It was never like that years ago. I gave up and have moved on money wise. But, I will still watch the big races. :)

This post covers it all. Any one of these issues, let alone all together, have hurt the sport. A million players could have written this one........including me

[JustRalph]

its pretty hard to proclaim racing dead when a place like Oaklawn averages over 20,000 people a day showing up culminated by 67,000 for their derby, orKeenland drawing 25,000 and 40,000 for a big stakes day. Santa Anita has been getting 15,000 on regular weekends, Gulfstream averaged 20,000 on weekends this year, while Tampa was over 10,000. there are big numbers that show up for simulcast in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

In the summer there are over 40 tracks to choose from on the Twinspires menu. How long can that continue?

Back in the day there were MLB teams and NFL teams that were barely making money. They had to get together and come up with revenue sharing to survive. The same thing happen with NASCAR tracks. They all split TV money etc.

Never going to happen in racing.

From the Players point of view, especially new players, stepping into the pools at the tracks you listed is jumping in with the Sharks. Oaklawn may be an exception. But since I don't play anymore, Oaklawn might fit. If you are going to play with the sharpies, it's a long learning curve. NYRA tracks too. If you're that new guy standing in the crowd, there aren't many like you around. Fins to the left, Fins to the right......... Would you stick around?

If that new guy goes looking for easier pools, he ends up in cheaters alley, and catches on pretty fast. It's a no win for most players.

[DeltaLover]

I am wondering how much each of these thousand race goers is betting in a per race base... Anyone has the numbers?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I assume Lambo's post was made in jest. If not, it would be like saying the US Catholic Church is thriving by observing church attendance on Easter and Christmas.

[appistappis]

If anybody would be an expert on something dying it would probably be a member of the british empire.

[Cratos]

Because this game in America is run strictly for the owners, trainers and jockeys. Its not "Set up" for the customer.

You are very correct, but we just don't get it.

[Cratos]

If anybody would be an expert on something dying it would probably be a member of the british empire.
Killing the messenger gets you nothing. Who cares if racing is behind or dying in England?

What is important or should be important to the American bettor is the state of the racing industry in America.

We all too frequently go off on these tangents that serves no useful purpose .

One thing is for sure is that the racing industry is on life-support and I believe if it wasn't for the money grabbing authorizing jurisdictions keeping it afloat for their own self-interest the industry would totally collapse.

[burnsy]

This is one of the bright spots of Horseracing.

You can be 50 and still be called "Kid." :)

:lol: ....I hear ya! There was a time I was the "kid", but that's because I've been going to tracks, OTB's and simulcasts for so long.......and there's still a bunch of folks older than me there. Here's the kicker though, its always been short on young people. The younger guy acts like this is a new phenomena. That's why we were all called "kid", there were never many there, other than summer time.....ever. The older guys (on here) from different parts of the country are some of the rare degenerates that have been doing this for 35 to 40 years or so. Other than special days it was never popular with young people, we are the proud and few but not the Marines that's for sure. :D The problem is when people like me hold back, because the racing is awful.......Houston, you have a problem.....I used to love the Aqueduct winter meet too.

Plus, the younger people crack me up. The old ways are antiquated, yeah ok, there were never any good gamblers until the internet and Excel...I'll buy that one. The geeks always crack me up, even though I am somewhat one of them from a time past. The human and animal aspect of this game is an art........I'm pretty good at math too, I use it, but instinct and taking risk is where the real scores are made.

[Dave Schwartz]

Lots of good ideas on this forum from people who really know racing. And why wouldn't you? To many here it is where you spend 50% or more of your non-working time!

Collectively, we care a lot.


We live in a very competitive world.

Horse racing not only competes against gambling but also against all other sports.

The other sports (and teams) have significant outside revenue generated by television. Racing does not have that.

I really think that racing's problems are much like the casino industry in Reno. For decades, the Reno casinos sold "cheap." That was their business model. Then one day, they discovered that "cheap" no longer paid the bills. Now we're down to like maybe 7-8 casinos instead of the 30 or so we used to have.

This happened because they simply ignored the warning signs as casino after casino failed. Now, many of the casinos depend upon locals and limited traffic from NoCal, OR, WA to support them.

In comparison, look how Las Vegas reinvented it self with even bigger shows, then family entertainment, and, in general, continued innovating, whether times were good, bad or somewhere in between.

Racing is similar in the sense that they ignored the all the warning signs of impending doom. The handle, while making a small comeback in recent years, just is not a growth model. They continue to ignore the signs. They continue to do nothing.

For years, they have needed an industry-wide commitment to improving the product - which includes not only better races but a more reasonable takeout.

Instead, they have sold each other on the idea that the bettors somehow owe the tracks their money and the tracks somehow owe the horsemen a good living even if the track is going down the tubes. As someone said (Delta Lover, I think), just look at MTH.

So, they will keep doing what they are doing, just like the casinos in Reno. One by one, the herd will continue to be thinned. The survivors will continue to cut up the remaining pie and stay in business.

The real question to be answered will be: "Is that a truly sustainable business model?"


or, will the tracks simply turn into housing developments. Heck, even THAT doesn't always work out so well. Just look at BM.



Just my opinion.

[horses4courses]

Lots of good ideas on this forum from people who really know racing. And why wouldn't you? To many here it is where you spend 50% or more of your non-working time!

Collectively, we care a lot.


We live in a very competitive world.

Horse racing not only competes against gambling but also against all other sports.

The other sports (and teams) have significant outside revenue generated by television. Racing does not have that.

I really think that racing's problems are much like the casino industry in Reno. For decades, the Reno casinos sold "cheap." That was their business model. Then one day, they discovered that "cheap" no longer paid the bills. Now we're down to like maybe 7-8 casinos instead of the 30 or so we used to have.

This happened because they simply ignored the warning signs as casino after casino failed. Now, many of the casinos depend upon locals and limited traffic from NoCal, OR, WA to support them.

In comparison, look how Las Vegas reinvented it self with even bigger shows, then family entertainment, and, in general, continued innovating, whether times were good, bad or somewhere in between.

Racing is similar in the sense that they ignored the all the warning signs of impending doom. The handle, while making a small comeback in recent years, just is not a growth model. They continue to ignore the signs. They continue to do nothing.

For years, they have needed an industry-wide commitment to improving the product - which includes not only better races but a more reasonable takeout.

Instead, they have sold each other on the idea that the bettors somehow owe the tracks their money and the tracks somehow owe the horsemen a good living even if the track is going down the tubes. As someone said (Delta Lover, I think), just look at MTH.

So, they will keep doing what they are doing, just like the casinos in Reno. One by one, the herd will continue to be thinned. The survivors will continue to cut up the remaining pie and stay in business.

The real question to be answered will be: "Is that a truly sustainable business model?"


or, will the tracks simply turn into housing developments. Heck, even THAT doesn't always work out so well. Just look at BM.



Just my opinion.

I think your opinion is correct, DS.

The one factor I would add in the demise of Reno's (and Tahoe's) casinos,
was the growth of Indian gaming in California. Nevada was the only option
for gamblers for so long. Northern Nevada does not have the drawing power of Las Vegas and,
while California's new casinos have had some effect on the LV bottom line, it had no where near the same impact.

Reno and Tahoe needed to re-invent themselves as tourist destinations.
They have been slow to adapt.

(Also, just my opinion)

[Dave Schwartz]

Reno and Tahoe needed to re-invent themselves as tourist destinations.
They have been slow to adapt.

Agreed. Like horse racing, the horse might be out of the barn already. (Pun intended.) Tahoe has a better chance than Reno because they are still a beautiful vacation destination. They also still have a little glitz.

The theme (logically, it would seem) would be for them to get on the bandwagon before it is absolutely too late. It might not be the end of the 11th hour quite yet, but it sure is close to 11 o'clock.

[tzipi]

I was always the youngest in my local OTB more times than not...and this was 20-25 years ago....nothing has changed as far as that goes...there was never a "young" crowd at the OTBs during the summer weeks or colder months.

Me too Pace. I was one of the youngest.

[thaskalos]

Me too Pace. I was one of the youngest.

I was the youngest player at the OTB in 1993...and I am still the youngest in 2015.

[Stillriledup]

yGEe_zpddNI

[Some_One]

I think we just need to let the current situation playout over the next 4-5 years where all those jurisdictions whose horsemen think they are rolling in slot cash and can ignore the horseplayers and promotion of the game to have their slot cash taken from them by broke governments. Then maybe we can get fundamental changes to the structure of the sport for the longterm.

[thaskalos]

I think we just need to let the current situation playout over the next 4-5 years where all those jurisdictions whose horsemen think they are rolling in slot cash and can ignore the horseplayers and promotion of the game to have their slot cash taken from them by broke governments. Then maybe we can get fundamental changes to the structure of the sport for the longterm.

Doubtful. Without the cash assistance from the casino side, the only fundamental change you can count on is a win takeout of 20%...and an exotics takeout of 31%.

[tzipi]

I was the youngest player at the OTB in 1993...and I am still the youngest in 2015.

It is a shame, because it is a great game and an very exciting game. I just wished they made the game better for the money investors today. Yes, there's so much competition out there today, but it is one hell of a show and it can hold up if done right. I wish I had the opportunity to play more.

[ultracapper]

One of the problems with Horseracing that I almost never see mentioned is something that is inherent in the sport, and because of that, it will be almost impossible to get it up to par with other competing interests. The problem is the SPEED of the stimulation. Live races might go off as frequently as 23 minutes. Simulcast races might be available every few minutes.

Contrast that with other competing interests. The dealing of a Texas holdem hand might take 2-3 minutes, but most/all the players have a keen and vested interest up through the hand conclusion. Casino table games like blackjack and craps usually have outcomes determined in 10-15 seconds. Slot machines might specify outcomes in 5 seconds or less.

There was a commercial a few years ago that is typical of the average person's mindset. One person would be sharing a text message they just received about some type of news, and another person would say something like "oh, that news is so 12 seconds ago", meaning that they already received the same info, except earlier. As a society we are driven to want information faster, and that paradigm and desire will continue towards even faster speed. Conversely, slower things will be less likely to hold our attention, and ultimately be moved away from.

Horseracing does have unique aspects like the challenge of analyzing of data, which have the "potential" to attract new long-term players, but it will never return to the glory days of yesteryear.

Your last paragraph here is the biggest plus/minus in horserace handicapping.

As a kid I loved baseball because of the numbers, all the beautiful numbers. As a teenager, when I was introduced to the track, the same thing appealed to me immediately.

I'm almost afraid to say what I'm about to say, but the fact is, I didn't make any real strides in my profitability as a player until I realized there was no way I was going to twist, and turn, and bend those numbers in a way that was going to help me be a profitable horseplayer. I have found the nuances of handicapping a horse race much too significant to ignore, and almost impossible to quantify.

There, fire away.

[thaskalos]

I'm almost afraid to say what I'm about to say, but the fact is, I didn't make any real strides in my profitability as a player until I realized there was no way I was going to twist, and turn, and bend those numbers in a way that was going to help me be a profitable horseplayer. I have found the nuances of handicapping a horse race much too significant to ignore, and almost impossible to quantify.

There, fire away.
"FIRE AWAY"? You are 100% on the money here, as far as I am concerned. :ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

The US is unique in that there are a million entertainment options. People only seem to get very interested in sports when something "big" is happening.

Years ago I used to watch tons of baseball and football. Now I have almost no interest until the playoffs. People that generally enjoy tennis don't pay attention to all the tournaments. They only pay attention to the US open, Wimbledon etc.. There are loads of people like that.

The same pattern is impacting horse racing. I think that's the new entertainment reality.

My guess is that if US racing continues to decline over the long haul, we'll still have the really big days. And eventually many of us will also start playing the bigger race days in Australia, Japan, and Europe.

[whodoyoulike]

This article may support the impression that American racing is dying.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91311/chrb-resumes-talks-on-golden-gates-future?source=rss

The board also approved proposals, which would add penalties for the use electric shocking devices and the use of cobalt, to be sent out for a 45-day public comment period.

Someone actually had to propose the above at a recent meeting and now they're giving a 45-day comment period.

Why don't they just take a yes or no vote?

If the CHRB waits out the entire 45-day period, someone needs to propose that the Governor replace the entire board except for Bo Derek (just because we need someone with experience).

If someone opposes the proposal, ban them from participating at a track for life.

[Cratos]

This article may support the impression that American racing is dying.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91311/chrb-resumes-talks-on-golden-gates-future?source=rss



Someone actually had to propose the above at a recent meeting and now they're giving a 45-day comment period.

Why don't they just take a yes or no vote?

If the CHRB waits out the entire 45-day period, someone needs to propose that the Governor replace the entire board except for Bo Derek (just because we need someone with experience).

If someone opposes the proposal, ban them from participating at a track for life.
Thanks for posting the link to the Blood-Horse article; it was a good read.

[JustRalph]

Yeah, that's what they need........a friggin symposium!

[ultracapper]

"FIRE AWAY"? You are 100% on the money here, as far as I am concerned. :ThmbUp:

I know you do Thask. I also know there are a lot of players that put a lot of time, energy, and intellectual acumen into designing models or adjusting times in hopes that they may develop an edge. I don't want to disparage them.

[Stillriledup]

Your last paragraph here is the biggest plus/minus in horserace handicapping.

As a kid I loved baseball because of the numbers, all the beautiful numbers. As a teenager, when I was introduced to the track, the same thing appealed to me immediately.

I'm almost afraid to say what I'm about to say, but the fact is, I didn't make any real strides in my profitability as a player until I realized there was no way I was going to twist, and turn, and bend those numbers in a way that was going to help me be a profitable horseplayer. I have found the nuances of handicapping a horse race much too significant to ignore, and almost impossible to quantify.

There, fire away.

This is a great post, they don't call you "ultra" for nothin!

I've always said this is a "PP" game as far as how bettors determine who they're going to bet , what kind of speed figs he's running, etc.

So, it really comes down to finding a way to determine which horses are better or worse than what they show on PPs and most, if not all, of that comes out of replays and the ability to evaluate talent (or lack of it).

[ultracapper]

The point I'm trying to make there though is that even though it may be the numbers that will attract young people to the game, just the love of the numbers may not be enough to be profitable. The thing that gets them into the game, may end up being the reason they leave.

[badcompany]

Doubtful. Without the cash assistance from the casino side, the only fundamental change you can count on is a win takeout of 20%...and an exotics takeout of 31%.

IMO, the fundamental change you'll see when casino subsides end is condos where the tracks used to be.

[thaskalos]

IMO, the fundamental change you'll see when casino subsides end is condos where the tracks used to be.
I am hoping for shopping malls.

[JustRalph]

The point I'm trying to make there though is that even though it may be the numbers that will attract young people to the game, just the love of the numbers may not be enough to be profitable. The thing that gets them into the game, may end up being the reason they leave.

You realize the generation your asking to "love the numbers" can't make change at a drive thru, right?

[ultracapper]

That implies they use cash.

[Dave Schwartz]

I noticed there is another thread that asks the question, "Who was your favorite jockey when you started out?"

Personalizing jockeys could be a great way to connect people to the sport.

Of course, I've always thought the industry needed to look at other "sports" as a model. Instead of saying, "We aren't the National Football League," they should be saying, "How much can we become LIKE the NFL?"

Another thing... we always see the short-term action as the mechanism. What if there was a longer-term model? I mean, as you look at the sports model, there is high degree of anticipation in the appreciation by the fan.

[Tom]

"How much can we become LIKE the NFL?"

Make the jockeys beat their wives and over-use drugs?
Celebrations in the winner's circle?
Sell jackets in stable colors?
And change them every season so you have buy a new one?
Blackout rules?

[Fager Fan]

Assessment of current American horse racing scene by a top British newspaper:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/10/american-horse-racing-isnt-dead-but-its-getting-awfully-close

Haven't read the article, but I'm a little tired of hearing what Europe has to say about American racing. Have they looked at their purses lately? What makes them think they're doing so well?

[JustRalph]

Make the jockeys beat their wives and over-use drugs? Check!

One down.......four to go.....



Celebrations in the winner's circle?
Sell jackets in stable colors?
And change them every season so you have buy a new one?
Blackout rules?

[Some_One]

Haven't read the article, but I'm a little tired of hearing what Europe has to say about American racing. Have they looked at their purses lately? What makes them think they're doing so well?

And what would the purses be in the USA if 90% of tracks didn't have Slots/VLT/Instant Racing?

The UK model is mostly self-sustaining.

[Stillriledup]

I noticed there is another thread that asks the question, "Who was your favorite jockey when you started out?"

Personalizing jockeys could be a great way to connect people to the sport.

Of course, I've always thought the industry needed to look at other "sports" as a model. Instead of saying, "We aren't the National Football League," they should be saying, "How much can we become LIKE the NFL?"

Another thing... we always see the short-term action as the mechanism. What if there was a longer-term model? I mean, as you look at the sports model, there is high degree of anticipation in the appreciation by the fan.

Actually, racing's problem is that they act as if the product can be a stand alone product, so they essentially ignore the customers, treat them as if their product is so spectacular that they can just throw the product out there and "they will come" This is what the NFL does, but the NFL's product is so good they can get away with treating the "fans" like crap because they know you'll still watch.

This mentality is why the racing industry treats their horsemen like gods even though the horsemen are totally replaceable. There's not one jock or trainer who would "damage" the industry if they retired tomorrow, but if a bettor who bets thousands a day decided to stop betting horse and play poker or bets sports instead, the game would lose money.

If Pletcher or Baffert retired tomorrow, all their horses would go to other trainers, nobody would miss either one of them and nobody would bet one cent less than they normally would bet. If a big bettor retires, handles go down and everyone who has any "cut" of the takeout gets less of a shrinking pie.

[Tom]

Racing and NFL fans both participate remotely rather than at a live event.
People say you need live racing to attract new fans, but how many of you have never been to a live football game?

[classhandicapper]

This game need fixes on multiple fronts.

1. Lower the take so that "thinking" gamblers will have a better chance of winning. That will at least put the game on even footing with sports gambling for a big piece of the overall gambling pie among serious gamblers.

2. Better treatment of customers to make the experience more attractive to women, couples, and families etc... the way casinos approach it. The gambling is the most important thing, but you don't create new customers by giving them an unpleasant experience when they do show up.

3. Create a self sustaining business model by consolidating, getting off the casino subsidies, and promoting simulcast and internet wagering to the handful of surviving major circuits.

4. Promote US racing overseas (and vice versa) and work out some deals with those foreign countries and tracks. There is a TON of new handle in other countries. We still have the best dirt racing in the world. They would love to gamble on our races. We need a piece of that action.

I'm sure this is a lot easier said than done, but this would be a good start.

[DeltaLover]

1. Lower the take so that "thinking" gamblers will have a better chance of winning.

Although a step towards the right direction, lowering the take out in not enough. What is needed in top of it, is the introduction of betting exchanges, the legalization of on line bookmakers and fixed odds.

[Robert Goren]

Until racing is willing to spend money on marketing the sport, the sport will continue to decline. Racing is down to counting on word of mouth to expand its customer base. That is not working. I think the racing powers that be think with the advent of a multitude of sports channels there will be place on them for racing. I don't see that happening. There is not many potential advertisers out there that want their name associated with horse racing at the current time. The image is just too negative on too many levels. Horse racing has a lot of work to do on its image and that is going to take money, likely quite a bit of money.

[Cratos]

Until racing is willing to spend money on marketing the sport, the sport will continue to decline. Racing is down to counting on word of mouth to expand its customer base. That is not working. I think the racing powers that be think with the advent of a multitude of sports channels there will be place on them for racing. I don't see that happening. There is not many potential advertisers out there that want their name associated with horse racing at the current time. The image is just too negative on too many levels. Horse racing has a lot of work to do on its image and that is going to take money, likely quite a bit of money.
Spoken like a true business man and I agree; all of the other suggestions/ recommendations are for naught if racing don't have widespread advertising.

There should be widespread TC ads during the current NHL and NBA playoffs.

The product is there; the advertising is not.

[thaskalos]

The product has been tried, and has been found wanting. The gamblers have spoken...and they have clearly stated that they prefer the other forms of gambling available to them. To further advertise this product in its current form is akin to beating a dead horse...so to speak.

[Robert Goren]

The product has been tried, and has been found wanting. The gamblers have spoken...and they have clearly stated that they prefer the other forms of gambling available to them. To further advertise this product in its current form is akin to beating a dead horse...so to speak.I agree with some of that. But I have seen some really bad products get sold because of advertising. You have to look no further than cigarettes to see the power of good marketing.

[thaskalos]

I agree with some of that. But I have seen some really bad products get sold because of advertising. You have to look no further than cigarettes to see the power of good marketing.

When a business keeps losing ground to the competition, then it implements certain changes within its structure and operational methods...and then it advertises these changes. This game has been losing ground to its competition for many years...but has taken no steps to rectify the situation that it finds itself in. What is horse racing supposed to advertise? The 7-horse fields...which are reduced to 5 after the obligatory late scratches?

Isolating on a few marquee races a year won't do it, you know...

[Fager Fan]

And what would the purses be in the USA if 90% of tracks didn't have Slots/VLT/Instant Racing?

The UK model is mostly self-sustaining.

And it's self-sustaining in paying out peanuts. Again, not exactly a sign of great health. Maybe those in the UK could concentrate on the problems they have in their sport instead of constantly criticizing ours.

[Robert Goren]

And it's self-sustaining in paying out peanuts. Again, not exactly a sign of great health. Maybe those in the UK could concentrate on the problems they have in their sport instead of constantly criticizing ours.Spoken like a horseman who has benefitted from the slot money and watched the sport go down hill while fighting any changes which will actually attract more bettors too the sport. Can we at least agree that the higher purses that the slot money has brought has not brought the promised increases in handle nor has it brought more betable races that was also promised? The only real question now is "How low can the handle go and the sport survive." There are times I get the impression that the horsemen think the sport can survive with no handle. Maybe that is what they have wanted all along.

[JustRalph]

Great posts Thask. Dead on.

Closing half the tracks tomorrow would be a good start.

[Cratos]

Spoken like a horseman who has benefitted from the slot money and watched the sport go down hill while fighting any changes which will actually attract more bettors too the sport. Can we at least agree that the higher purses that the slot money has brought has not brought the promised increases in handle nor has it brought more betable races that was also promised? The only real question now is "How low can the handle go and the sport survive." There are times I get the impression that the horsemen think the sport can survive with no handle. Maybe that is what they have wanted all along.
The American automotive industry was on “life-support” at one time and now it back and stronger than ever.

Apple Computer was once near bankruptcy and today it is the largest software developer in the world and over the last 7 years sold nearly 500 million of its popular iPhones.

The point that I am making is that in the American marketplace if not the world marketplace it is the elasticity of the demand that moves a product and nothing fuels that product movement like advertising.

Historically the horseracing product platform from a wagering point of view was never designed to be a national or international product; it was the breeding of thoroughbreds that got such attention and did well as it is doing today.

Can the wagering side be brought to the forefront and become profitable for the “sellers”; and be entertaining to the fans?

Yes and yes again; and there is no doubt in my mind that advertising/marketing is the step in the right direction to jump start this effort.

The “old guard” continues to bemoan the “take” as being too high as the reason and in part that is true, but only to a certain extent.

The “take” is the revenue life-blood to the racetracks and the authorizing jurisdictions.

However this revenue stream work on the multiplier effect and for those of you who had microeconomics should have a good understanding of that concept because it is fundamental to business growth in the American economy.

Yes, they need better oversight over drugs in this industry, an upgrade in facilities, embrace the latest technologies, and have better cooperation between the various racing entities in how and when they operate.

Therefore I will say, the racetracks can make all the changes that has been echoed throughout this thread, but if they don’t inform the public of these changes with sound product marketing/advertising it will be all for nothing.

[Tom]

Great posts Thask. Dead on.

Closing half the tracks tomorrow would be a good start.
Then repeat on Monday. :D

[AndyC]

Great posts Thask. Dead on.

Closing half the tracks tomorrow would be a good start.

Then you would have less horses bred, less qualified trainers, grooms, jockeys, etc. The second tier tracks in the US serve an important purpose.

[Dave Schwartz]

Therefore I will say, the racetracks can make all the changes that has been echoed throughout this thread, but if they don’t inform the public of these changes with sound product marketing/advertising it will be all for nothing.

Cratos,

To date, I have seen no changes worthy of being advertised.

What are those changes?

[whodoyoulike]

I agree U.S. racing has been declining the last 20+ years.

But, why on major race events (TC, BC or major stakes days etc.) are there tens of thousands of bettors (based on on-track crowds and handle)?

Are these people not paying attention to racing on the other days?

It doesn't seem likely to me. It would be similar to me of going to Vegas and betting at the sports book but I haven't been following any teams prior. I wouldn't do this.

So, I think thousands are interested and follow horse racing but, seldom wager. The opportunity and the chance to wager is readily available as we all know through ADW's, OTB's and tracks etc.

The race track executives should focus and analyze on why these people aren't wagering more frequently then they may come up with an answer.

We've already provided them the answer (repeatedly) over the years which they've intentionally been ignoring because it impacts them personally.

IMO, in order to revive U.S. racing, the take-out needs to be lowered and provide full competitive fields. The bettors have already shown they will come out when the racing isn't just for stake racing e.g., GP's recent claiming day.

[whodoyoulike]

Then you would have less horses bred, less qualified trainers, grooms, jockeys, etc. The second tier tracks in the US serve an important purpose.


Why can't we have a couple of "A" tracks, 5 or 6 "B" and "C" tracks and 2 or 3 "D" tracks running (but not year round)?

The number of tracks would be dependent on the horse population. Currently, there are too many tracks to support competitive fields. And, I realize people enjoy betting "C" and "D" tracks (but, I don't know why).

I've always agreed the hierarchy of racing tracks serves an important purpose. Horses need somewhere to race. It's true as you've indicated, the need for trainers, grooms, jockeys, etc., will be reduced but, it would increase competition among those groups. Competition is usually a good thing (effect on innovation and skills). If we didn't have competition, well, we would have what we currently have.

If something isn't done soon, those trainers, grooms, etc., will be unemployed anyway.

[Cratos]

Cratos,

To date, I have seen no changes worthy of being advertised.

What are those changes?
Dave,

The change that I would make would be to advertise the horse.

Horseracing is about gambling, but the star of the show is left out except on rare occasions. In America we love gambling and animals; and horseracing is about both of those.

For instance, I could vision TV ads highlighting the Ky Derby entrants and not from a gambling point of view, but an animals lovers point of view.

Another feature would be for racing to show how humane it is to the horse.

What I am driving at is to overcome the gambling stigma is an uphill climb so racing should act like the NFL and NCAA and pretend that gambling doesn't exist by not advertising it.

On the issue of the take, the racetrack would always prefer a lower take because using the multiplier effect they would still get the bettors' money, but at smaller amounts at a time. The reason that the take is high and difficult to reduce is more about politics than anything else.

A good example is the casino revenues in part supplementing the race purses. Given that once that happened why didn't the take be reduced by the amount of the supplement because prior to the money from the casino, the purse was fiance from the take.

[thaskalos]

What I am driving at is to overcome the gambling stigma is an uphill climb so racing should act like the NFL and NCAA and pretend that gambling doesn't exist by not advertising it.


If the trick is to appeal to the public's love for animals while pretending that "gambling doesn't exist"...then why shouldn't the public go to the zoo instead?

[thaskalos]

Another feature would be for racing to show how humane it is to the horse.

Great idea. I am surprised that no one has ever thought of this before. :ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Great idea. I am surprised that no one has ever thought of this before. :ThmbUp:

Sarcasm?

And who doesn't like the zoo?

[thaskalos]

Sarcasm?



You blame me? Horse racing..."humane to the horse"?

[luisbe]

Spoken like a true business man and I agree; all of the other suggestions/ recommendations are for naught if racing don't have widespread advertising.

There should be widespread TC ads during the current NHL and NBA playoffs.

The product is there; the advertising is not.

Actually, aggressive sale of horses to NHL and NBA players as well as actors/actresses and have some Stakes where their horses compete.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You blame me? Horse racing..."humane to the horse"?

Would you use Scott Blasi to narrate such a video?

[thaskalos]

Would you use Scott Blasi to narrate such a video?
In fact, horse racing's inhumanity towards the horse is one of the key reasons why the public is staying away.

[PaceMasterT]

In fact, horse racing's inhumanity towards the horse is one of the key reasons why the public is staying away.

The sound of 40 pounding hooves running down the track gives one goose bumps. Horses are such beautiful and regal animals. Humans, not so much.

[Robert Goren]

In fact, horse racing's inhumanity towards the horse is one of the key reasons why the public is staying away. I doubt that is the case.

[Dave Schwartz]

Good post, Cratos!

:ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Dave,

The change that I would make would be to advertise the horse.

Horseracing is about gambling, but the star of the show is left out except on rare occasions. In America we love gambling and animals; and horseracing is about both of those.

For instance, I could vision TV ads highlighting the Ky Derby entrants and not from a gambling point of view, but an animals lovers point of view.

Another feature would be for racing to show how humane it is to the horse.

What I am driving at is to overcome the gambling stigma is an uphill climb so racing should act like the NFL and NCAA and pretend that gambling doesn't exist by not advertising it.

On the issue of the take, the racetrack would always prefer a lower take because using the multiplier effect they would still get the bettors' money, but at smaller amounts at a time. The reason that the take is high and difficult to reduce is more about politics than anything else.

A good example is the casino revenues in part supplementing the race purses. Given that once that happened why didn't the take be reduced by the amount of the supplement because prior to the money from the casino, the purse was fiance from the take.

I don't know if this is a good idea to advertise the horse, we had Zenyatta and other really famous horses and when those horses are racing, some extra people go to see them, but it doesn't last long...what about turning the jocks and trainers into "famous people" that are famous outside horse racing?

We need jocks and trainers to transcend the sport and nothing has been done to make that happen.

[ultracapper]

The American automotive industry was on “life-support” at one time and now it back and stronger than ever.

Apple Computer was once near bankruptcy and today it is the largest software developer in the world and over the last 7 years sold nearly 500 million of its popular iPhones.

The point that I am making is that in the American marketplace if not the world marketplace it is the elasticity of the demand that moves a product and nothing fuels that product movement like advertising.

Historically the horseracing product platform from a wagering point of view was never designed to be a national or international product; it was the breeding of thoroughbreds that got such attention and did well as it is doing today.

Can the wagering side be brought to the forefront and become profitable for the “sellers”; and be entertaining to the fans?

Yes and yes again; and there is no doubt in my mind that advertising/marketing is the step in the right direction to jump start this effort.

The “old guard” continues to bemoan the “take” as being too high as the reason and in part that is true, but only to a certain extent.

The “take” is the revenue life-blood to the racetracks and the authorizing jurisdictions.

However this revenue stream work on the multiplier effect and for those of you who had microeconomics should have a good understanding of that concept because it is fundamental to business growth in the American economy.

Yes, they need better oversight over drugs in this industry, an upgrade in facilities, embrace the latest technologies, and have better cooperation between the various racing entities in how and when they operate.

Therefore I will say, the racetracks can make all the changes that has been echoed throughout this thread, but if they don’t inform the public of these changes with sound product marketing/advertising it will be all for nothing.

SOLID POST

[Some_One]

Dave,

The change that I would make would be to advertise the horse.

Horseracing is about gambling, but the star of the show is left out except on rare occasions. In America we love gambling and animals; and horseracing is about both of those.


This has been tried and failed, no real long term effect has happened.

When i think of the problem, I think to fish.

Why does someone go fishing?

If he wanted fish, wouldn't it just be easier to go to the Supermarket and pick up something there?

Why go through the trouble of driving out into the woods, picking up gear, various alcoholic refreshments, and lots of mosquito spay?

Because there is something to the event of being out on the lake and taking park in the act, whether solo or with a group of buddies.

You see this social dynamic at Aussie/UK/HK tracks and some US tracks (Kee + Dmr).

[Robert Goren]

In order to advertise the horse, the horse must run more than a 6-8 times a year and run well past its 3yo year. Today the race horse stars of the sport are worth more in the breeding shed than they are on the track.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

The biggest problem facing horse racing is that people are dumb.

And lazy.

95% of the public (maybe more) don't want to put in the time to be good at a game that requires so much effort when they can simply wager on the Lakers or Giants in a 50/50 proposition.

Go out to a restaurant, bar, or social arena these days and people are completely involved with their cell phone as opposed to one another. They need instant gratification; not research, time, and effort.

At best, Joe Consumer bets favorites every race and wins 30% of the time over a 5 hour period at his local track. That isn't interesting to him because you only have "action" for 1 to 2 minutes every half hour 8 to 10 to 12 times.

There is a reason why Casino's draw people, and slot machines rule. The attention span, effort, and intelligence of the average Joe is minimal. Pushing a button ever 20 seconds and watching bells, lights, and whistles is much more enjoyable for the vast majority of people than opening up a racing form and trying to figure out how to win.

People want to be entertained. They don't want to think when they are losing money.

How do you get people interested in investing in a 401K or their life future? Yeah, they suck at that too.

[Robert Goren]

How is it being dumb, when if you put the same amount of effort into almost any other endeavor that you have to put into horse racing to be profitable, you would make far more money, that you actually put your efforts in those more profitable endeavors? The problem horse racing has is not that people are dumb, but it is that they are not dumb enough.

[DeltaLover]

Definitely, promoting horse racing as a sport is an absolute necessity but equally (or more) important is to advertise the possibility of making a profit out of the gambling game. Confusing the sport with the relative gambling, is the number one mortal sin when it comes to promoting the game to the mazes and unfortunately those who are running the industry do not seem to get it!

The more I think about it the more I am convinced, that the only way for the game to find its way to the future, can be found in the decoupling of betting and sport conductors. In other words, race tracks should concentrate on how they will run the sport as efficiently as possible, leaving the gambling part to third parties who will compete among themselves to attract the betting dollar. This approach, will quickly elevate the quality of betting conditions, becoming more favorable to the bettors, something that in turn will be reflected to the sport, which will become more prominent and popular among the crowds.

Of course, reality proves that in this country at least, horse racing is quickly moving to a completely opposite direction, becoming more and more introvert without any tendency to convert its tactical approaches to more strategic directions, that will present the chances for a long term triumph both as a sport and as a form of gambling.

The myopic views of those governing the game, including racing officials, horsemen and owners, manage to degenerate it in a very consistent rate while nothing in the horizon seems that it can reverse the decline of the once Sport of Kings.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

How is it being dumb, when if you put the same amount of effort into almost any other endeavor that you have to put into horse racing to be profitable, you would make far more money, that you actually put your efforts in those more profitable endeavors? The problem horse racing has is not that people are dumb, but it is that they are not dumb enough.

True. I probably am dumb to put this much effort into horse racing.

I enjoy it though. And it keeps my mind entertained and healthy. It challenges me on a daily basis. How many people challenge themselves daily from a mental standpoint?

[Tom]

The problem with racing is it run by total idiots who have no clue what racing is.
Remember last year, they had the Mnr race, the Hambletonian, and the Saratoga stake on all at about the same time? Three idiots at work.
Day in, day out, post times overlap.
This disrespects the customers.

And how are fans treated when they do go a track?
Treated like dirt, gouged at every opportunity.

Racing needs people running who have brains.
Right, now there are not that many of them.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

The problem with racing is it run by total idiots who have no clue what racing is.
Remember last year, they had the Mnr race, the Hambletonian, and the Saratoga stake on all at about the same time? Three idiots at work.
Day in, day out, post times overlap.
This disrespects the customers.

And how are fans treated when they do go a track?
Treated like dirt, gouged at every opportunity.

Racing needs people running who have brains.
Right, now there are not that many of them.

True.

A national board would be a great start.

How do I make it happen?

[AndyC]

True.

A national board would be a great start.

How do I make it happen?

Based on the posts in this thread, the only people who have the insight as to what's needed to save racing are the posters on PA.

What are the odds that ALL track owners and ALL people who manage tracks
are clueless with absolutely no understanding of what it takes to run a successful business? Nonsense.

The problem is that there is way too much regulation and way too many parties involved in making any business decision. If a store wanted to have a sale on a product they just put out a sign and start selling. If a track wants to lower the take-out percentage there must be committee meetings and acquiescence of all parties. Then something might happen 2-12 months down the road.

What we don't need is another group, local or national, involved in the process.

[Cratos]

This has been tried and failed, no real long term effect has happened.

When i think of the problem, I think to fish.

Why does someone go fishing?

If he wanted fish, wouldn't it just be easier to go to the Supermarket and pick up something there?

Why go through the trouble of driving out into the woods, picking up gear, various alcoholic refreshments, and lots of mosquito spay?

Because there is something to the event of being out on the lake and taking park in the act, whether solo or with a group of buddies.

You see this social dynamic at Aussie/UK/HK tracks and some US tracks (Kee + Dmr).
Tried by whom and when? While I appreciate your “fish analogy,” I don’t see its relevance for solving the US racing problem for its fans in either wagering or just attending the races as entertainment.

[DeltaLover]

Based on the posts in this thread, the only people who have the insight as to what's needed to save racing are the posters on PA.


You better believe it !

[Cratos]

I don't know if this is a good idea to advertise the horse, we had Zenyatta and other really famous horses and when those horses are racing, some extra people go to see them, but it doesn't last long...what about turning the jocks and trainers into "famous people" that are famous outside horse racing?

We need jocks and trainers to transcend the sport and nothing has been done to make that happen.
History disputes your contention about not advertising the horse and shows that Man O’ War and Seabiscuit from years passed; and Secretariat, Ruffian, Seattle Slew, Rachel Alexandra, and Forego from the more recent past were good fan attractions.

In this era of high technology the advertisement that could be done with the racehorse and being associated with other products/athletes is virtually unlimited.

Jockeys and trainers are not the entertainment at the racetrack; it is the racehorse.

Parx didn’t give the owners of California Chrome an appearance fee to see Espinoza or Art Sherman and the draw at Charles Town was not Mike Smith or Jerry Hollendorfer, it was Shared Belief.

This sport is a marketing/advertising event waiting to happen.

[Cratos]

In order to advertise the horse, the horse must run more than a 6-8 times a year and run well past its 3yo year. Today the race horse stars of the sport are worth more in the breeding shed than they are on the track.
You are absolutely correct, but that will never happen without fan demand.

We pay the freight and collectively we can change this industry from being all about "breeding" to being about fan entertainment.

[Dave Schwartz]

Biggest issue with advertising the horse is that nobody cares about an $8k claimer.

What racing does now is attempt to advertise a few big horses, but that is such a small part of the day-to-day success of racing.

In fact, that encourages people to only have an interest when there is a really big race: just a few days and races per year in comparison.

[Saratoga_Mike]

DS - think you nailed it

[Cratos]

Biggest issue with advertising the horse is that nobody cares about an $8k claimer.

What racing does now is attempt to advertise a few big horses, but that is such a small part of the day-to-day success of racing.

In fact, that encourages people to only have an interest when there is a really big race: just a few days and races per year in comparison.
Not any different than the NFL advertising the QB; how many JJ Watt features do you see as opposed to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Completely different - the QB plays every weekend (barring injury), covering the entire season. The star horse isn't there 100% of the time obviously.

[Cratos]

The fact that NFL QB plays every week for the duration of the season and a top class racehorse might only run 6-8 times per has nothing to do with "product identification" and that is what at stake here.

How do we get the nonracing fan to identify with horse racing and I am arguing that the horse is the best product in racing to use because of our innate love for animals.

Sure racing will have to clean up its act as the NFL is currently doing with its players who are charged with being physically abusive.

[AndyC]

The fact that NFL QB plays every week for the duration of the season and a top class racehorse might only run 6-8 times per has nothing to do with "product identification" and that is what at stake here.

How do we get the nonracing fan to identify with horse racing and I am arguing that the horse is the best product in racing to use because of our innate love for animals.....

So a top class racehorse has nothing to do with "product identification" or the the fact that it only runs 6-8 times per year?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Cratos,

I simply believe US racing is in secular decline. It started with harness racing and t'bred racing is following.

I hope you're right with all your ideas. I'd love to see the revival of the sport.

[Cratos]

So a top class racehorse has nothing to do with "product identification" or the the fact that it only runs 6-8 times per year?
Please read again, what was being inferred was how do we get someone who is not a horseracing fan interested and my argument is use the "horse" first as the conduit.

However to keep them interested there must be more than 6-8 performances per year by the class horse and those performances should be competitive.