Golf - 2015 Masters

[horses4courses]

I went and did it.
After dissing on fantasy sports outfits forever, I signed up on Draft Kings.

The contest they are running on the Masters is just too tempting.
I couldn't pick a sports fantasy team for the major sports to save my life,
but I'll take a shot on half a dozen golfers.

$20 buy-in to pick a team of 6 players and keep it under a salary cap.
It's quite like the fun contest we ran here on PA in past years.

Here goes nothing - my team is as follows:

H. Stenson
M. Kuchar
L. Westwood
C. Schwarzel
L. Oosthuizen
M.A. Jimenez

Heck, I could win a ship load of money :lol:

[MutuelClerk]

Damn, I did the same thing. My team is ....

Dustin Johnson

J.B. Holmes

Paul Casey

Louie Oosthuizen

Patrick Reed

Billy Horschel

Looking forward to Thursday.

[DJofSD]

Watson will repeat.

[Greyfox]

Youth will be served:


Martin Kaymer
Jordan Speith
Patrick Reed
Keegan Bradley
Rory McIlroy

[DJofSD]

I'm not so sure about Rory. And if he is going to win at Augusta, he'd better do it sooner rather than later: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/mcilroy-working-out-protect-his-back-spine/

[Greyfox]

I'm not so sure about Rory. And if he is going to win at Augusta, he'd better do it sooner rather than later: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/mcilroy-working-out-protect-his-back-spine/

Rory has indeed bulked up.
If he's using "roids" there will be a price to pay down the road, as may have been the case with Tiger.

[1st time lasix]

I play in an annual Master's pool where you pick 6 players....five of them MUST make the cut for their accumulated to score to count. The key is getting five to make it...and sneek in one or two semi-darkhorses that might hit the leaderboard to get the glory. I have Dustin Johnson, Brandt Snedeker, Ryan Moore, Rory McIlroy, Jimmy Walker and Jordan Speith. Almost included Furyk. ****No Bubba, Stenson, Woods, Kutchur nor Mickleson. Enjoy the telecast. :ThmbUp: I have been "on property" for the event with a badge four times in last twenty five years. My goal now is to stay and play it. {i do have a remote chance-- since my regular Saturday morning golf buddy has a good friend who just became a member in 2014---he already has gone}

[Greyfox]

I have been "on property" for the event with a badge four times in last twenty five years. My goal now is to stay and play it. {i do have a remote chance-- since my regular Saturday morning golf buddy has a good friend who just became a member in 2014---he already has gone}

Consider yourself very privileged.
Augusta doesn't even sell tickets to the general public anymore.
To play it, you must know someone who has more money than God.:D

[DJofSD]

During the press conference earlier today, one item the chairman responded to was a question about general public attendance of the tournament. While there are some changes which could result in more attendance by the general public, those changes will not result in anything happening soon, meaning, very likely not in your or my lifetime. In part, it had to do with the policy change that tickets for attending the tournament are no longer inheritable, i.e. when a member dies those rights can not be passed down to the next generation.

So, I guess, for the time being and since there is not any longer a wait list for those very few tickets which are available to the general public, we all have to get lucky in a lottery or know some one.

And speaking of getting lucky, I was hitting on the practice range last Sunday next to a man that did. He won a ticket for Sunday's round. He's going to be playing some rounds at nearby courses on Thursday, Friday and Saturday then on the property on Sunday. He's won some of tickets for practice round days before and this is his first time for during the actual tournament.

[rastajenk]

I participate in Yahoo's Fantasy Golf (http://golf.fantasysports.yahoo.com/golf) every week. You pick two from the A group (which is predetermined at the start of the season), four from the B group, two from the C group. Each round you have one active A, two B's, one C. My picks, (subject to change before a deadline tomorrow morning :confused: ) are

A: Bubba and JB
B: DJ, Phil, Kuch, and Kaymer
C: Reed and Kevin Na.

Tough pickin' this week. Ended up with some likely, well-established contenders, but I wanted some hot hands and new shooters as well.

[DJofSD]

I'm pulling for Kuch too. I just hope he can get his head squared away to allow himself to win. No more 'golly, Matt's' please.

[rastajenk]

I'd like to see him drop an Expletive Bomb once. That would be cool. :p

[DJofSD]

I'd like to see him drop an Expletive Bomb once. That would be cool. :p
It could happen. -Judy Tanuta.

Seriously, after seeing Lydia Ko lash out and hit her bag last week, I would say Matt could very well get caught on TV letting go of a few choice words.

[DJofSD]

I heard about this guy for the first time last year. Oh, to be so good and fortunate: http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/jeff-knox-living-average-joes-masters-dream

[raybo]

I really look forward to The Masters every year, but this year especially so! Why?

1. Gentle Ben's final Masters (I'm from Texas and attended UT Austin)
2. Jordan Spieth's "2nd" attempt, at 22 years old (and, see the note for #1)
3. Bubba's attempt at his 3rd green jacket, and a possible back to back (love the fact that he plays by "feel" rather than probabilities and shot regimen)
4. Tiger Woods' return, with his "new" attitude (my personal "best all around player of all time" (with Tom Kite a close 2nd))

[raybo]

Special year, Nicklaus just got a hole-in-one in the Par 3 Challenge!

[Greyfox]

Special year, Nicklaus just got a hole-in-one in the Par 3 Challenge!

Years ago I heard Nicklaus scored 25 or so holes in 1.
He is a true Master.

[DJofSD]

Special year, Nicklaus just got a hole-in-one in the Par 3 Challenge!

https://amp.twimg.com/v/6830bba8-379a-440a-b3b8-a80d7c50c79d

[NJ Stinks]

The lines come from Paddy Power. My listed plays below are each way. That means I have win bets and place bets on each guy below. (Place bets pay at one-quarter the win price if the player finishes in the top 6 at the Masters.)

20 each way on Rory McIlroy at 11/2

10 each way on J.B. Holmes at 50/1

10 each way on Louis Oosthuizen at 50/1

10 each way on Paul Casey at 60-1


That's 100 total and I would be totally pumped if only I could actually place the bets legally in NJ. :(

[raybo]

Years ago I heard Nicklaus scored 25 or so holes in 1.
He is a true Master.

Sounds about right, but this one is his first at Augusta!

[raybo]

The lines come from Paddy Power. My listed plays below are each way. That means I have win bets and place bets on each guy below. (Place bets pay at one-quarter the win price if the player finishes in the top 6 at the Masters.)

20 each way on Rory McIlroy at 11/2

10 each way on J.B. Holmes at 50/1

10 each way on Louis Oosthuizen at 50/1

10 each way on Paul Casey at 60-1


That's 100 total and I would be totally pumped if only I could actually place the bets legally in NJ. :(

Good luck with your bets!

My personal opinion? Rory is your only shot.

[Rookies]

The lines come from Paddy Power. My listed plays below are each way. That means I have win bets and place bets on each guy below. (Place bets pay at one-quarter the win price if the player finishes in the top 6 at the Masters.)

20 each way on Rory McIlroy at 11/2

10 each way on J.B. Holmes at 50/1

10 each way on Louis Oosthuizen at 50/1

10 each way on Paul Casey at 60-1


That's 100 total and I would be totally pumped if only I could actually place the bets legally in NJ. :(

If you're Canadian, you could! ;)

[NJ Stinks]

Good luck with your bets!

My personal opinion? Rory is your only shot.

Just to be clear, Raybo, I have no real money on any of those golfers. But we can play the Lottery everyday in NJ!! :jump:

:(

[raybo]

My man Spieth is putting on a clinic today! Amazing composure, shot making, and putting from someone so young. Makes you wonder what we'll be saying about him in 10 years.

[raybo]

Don't know what Tiger has on his mind, but it's apparently not keeping your cool and putting the ball in the fairway, and on the greens. He should have known he was going to be a little rusty, and yet he appears to be trying to do things with his swing that you only do successfully when you're in peak form. I would gladly give up a few yards of distance to keep the ball in play, at Augusta.

[DJofSD]

Don't know what Tiger has on his mind, but it's apparently not keeping your cool and putting the ball in the fairway, and on the greens. He should have known he was going to be a little rusty, and yet he appears to be trying to do things with his swing that you only do successfully when you're in peak form. I would gladly give up a few yards of distance to keep the ball in play, at Augusta.
Do you have any specific shot or shots in mind?

[JustRalph]

Special year, Nicklaus just got a hole-in-one in the Par 3 Challenge!

Gotta love Jack!

Another Columbus Ohio, Ohio State Guy.

[raybo]

Spieth just went 14 under to be one up on the record score for 36 holes, set by Raymond Floyd at 13 under. And, he still has 3 holes to play! Amazing performance so far!!

[rastajenk]

He's moving like a tremendous machine....golfwise, of course. I wonder how many strokes in a major tournament is equivalent to 31 lengths. :)

[mountainman]

Quick..this masters needs some Johnny Miller. All this hyperbole muttered in the hushed, reverential tones mandated by the lords of Augusta is getting creepy. The commentators sound even more intimidated than usual.

[tucker6]

He's moving like a tremendous machine....golfwise, of course. I wonder how many strokes in a major tournament is equivalent to 31 lengths. :)
Probably what Tiger did at Pebble Beach in the US Open in 2000. -12 total and 15 shots ahead of the field.

[tucker6]

Quick..this masters needs some Johnny Miller. All this hyperbole muttered in the hushed, reverential tones mandated by the lords of Augusta is getting creepy. The commentators sound even more intimidated than usual.
They gave a lifetime ban to commentator Gary McCord for saying the greens looked like they had been bikini waxed. They are soooo full of themselves there.

[Greyfox]

They gave a lifetime ban to commentator Gary McCord for saying the greens looked like they had been bikini waxed. They are soooo full of themselves there.

I agree.
It's the weakest of the four majors and an announcer can be fired for saying that the ball landed in the "rough."
That's because there is no rough at Augusta.
Arguably it is one of the most beautiful courses on the planet, but the snobbery about the place and the stuffiness of the commentators gets to be a bit too much at times.
I'm pulling for Jordan to carry it off.

[MutuelClerk]

Not having McCord sucks for sure. But they do have less commercials. Jordan has been amazing. Looking forward to today and tomorrow. Last Sunday may have been Easter but the real holiday is Masters Sunday. Who wins more majors over their careers Jordan or Rory? I think I'd take Rory.

[DJofSD]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/woods-puts-onus-masters-committee-firm-greens/

One "knock" I've had against Tiger is his ability to adjust to changing conditions on the greens, especially when they are slower today than they were yesterday. I have always thought when the greens have slowed down, he does not make the adjustment as well as when they get faster.

But then, OTOH, I have no idea if Jordan adapts faster than Tiger but if Tiger gets his wish, we'll see what happens.

[lansdale]

Gotta admit that I have zero interest in golf, but, like many, I do follow what Tiger is doing. So far today, he's birdied three of the first four holes and is now -5. Interesting to see if he can maintain this level of play. Not bad for a guy who was written off by the press two months ago.

[Greyfox]

Gotta admit that I have zero interest in golf, but, like many, I do follow what Tiger is doing. So far today, he's birdied three of the first four holes and is now -5. Interesting to see if he can maintain this level of play. Not bad for a guy who was written off by the press two months ago.

He's a "horse for the course."
But there are a lot of younger thoroughbreds out there who he can't beat anymore at the Majors.
I'll have to break my crystal ball if he wins, but I just ain't seeing him getting a new green jacket.

[raybo]

Gotta admit that I have zero interest in golf, but, like many, I do follow what Tiger is doing. So far today, he's birdied three of the first four holes and is now -5. Interesting to see if he can maintain this level of play. Not bad for a guy who was written off by the press two months ago.

I agree, Tiger is looking more like what most of us golfers consider to be the "real" Tiger. Tiger's downfall, including his physical issues the last several years, IMO was due to his obsessiveness, regarding perfection. At his peak, he had all he needed to dominate golf, but his seeking of perfection in his swing, again IMO, was his worst mistake and led to many of his physical issues. Of course the personal problems with his former wife (nationally televised coverage of his marital infidelity), and the resulting black mark on his name and his status in general, certainly affected his game.

He has always been one of the mentally toughest and most disciplined players to ever pick up a club, and those personal problems destroyed some of that mental toughness, discipline, and as a result, his consistency and patience. If you can't consistently "think" your way around the golf course, your scores will certainly suffer.

[raybo]

He's a "horse for the course."
But there are a lot of younger thoroughbreds out there who he can't beat anymore at the Majors.
I'll have to break my crystal ball if he wins, but I just ain't seeing him getting a new green jacket.

Probably not this year, but I don't think I would go out on that limb and say he will never win another green jacket. If he gets it back together mentally and emotionally, as it appears he is on the path to do, he can compete with, and beat, anyone in the game. He has fewer years left in which to win the number of events that we all thought he would a few years ago, but he has enough time left to get back on top, and win some more majors. It's up to him really, and knowing how much he wants to do that (it's obvious), I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see him do it.

[GaryG]

Rory is 4 under after 10 holes

[Greyfox]

Tiger , once again, showed that he's got "no class."
On the thirteenth tee box when he uttered the four letter friend getter after hitting a hook.
Millions of kids looking in, the head of a Foundation for Children, and he provides that type of role modeling? :ThmbDown:
Faldo offered an apology from CBS for what came over the air.

[MutuelClerk]

If you put cameras this close on the competitors playing field you have to accept the language. Even in golf. This is the Masters. The will to win is high. If a player makes an error and swears get over it. I like the cameras this close, hearing conversations with the caddies. Language like this happens. It's men wearing pink trying their very hardest.

[tucker6]

Tiger , once again, showed that he's got "no class."
On the thirteenth tee box when he uttered the four letter friend getter after hitting a hook.
Millions of kids looking in, the head of a Foundation for Children, and he provides that type of role modeling? :ThmbDown:
Faldo offered an apology from CBS for what came over the air.
If you don't like it, you are free to watch golf on mute. Seriously. Much, much worse is said at basketball games, hockey games, baseball games, football games, and the list goes on. The same language and club banging display is used by many pros on tour within earshot of children. Is your problem with Tiger's language or Tiger period, because I don't see him doing anything different than other pros or the weekend duffer. It is a pet peeve of mine only because Tiger seems to be singled out in posts like this when practically everyone does it. I hope you put your hand to your mouth in shock and whispered "Oh my goodness I'm going to get the vapors" when he uttered that word.

Edit to add that 98% of all children in the USA hear worse than Tiger in their very own homes daily. Shocking I know. How's that for role modeling? :rolleyes:

[mountainman]

If you listened to only the foreign commentators, you'd think Rory had changed his surname to 'world number one.'

And Sir Nick is consumed with antipathy toward any American whose achievements surpass his own. He should be forced to acknowledge five times per hour that Tiger's career makes three of his. Faldo's smug arrogance confirms my every expectation of a modern day 'knight.' What a ridiculous title, and how loosely bestowed.

[Greyfox]

Edit to add that 98% of all children in the USA hear worse than Tiger in their very own homes daily. Shocking I know. How's that for role modeling? :rolleyes:

Not in my late Mom and Dad's house.
Not in my house.
Never with my children or my grandchildren.
Nor did we hear any of the adult neighbors with language like that when we were kids.
Nor do any of my neighbors talk that way today in front of kids.
I don't know where you got that 98% stat from, but if it's true, society really has a suffered a lowering of intelligence over the last several decades.

[raybo]

Rory is quite fond of the "F" word, he just hasn't been close enough to a mike to get it heard on TV yet, to my knowledge. But you can certainly read his lips clearly.

I've heard worse at kids games, from their parents.

[raybo]

Not in my late Mom and Dad's house.
Not in my house.
Never with my children or my grandchildren.
Nor did we hear any of the adult neighbors with language like that when we were kids.
Nor do any of my neighbors talk that way today in front of kids.
I don't know where you got that 98% stat from, but if it's true, society really has a suffered a lowering of intelligence over the last several decades.

Has nothing to do with intelligence, in sports it has to do with emotion and stress, and many kids learn early on to express themselves that way by their coaches.

Good grief man, this is earth, not Heaven!

[Greyfox]

The same language and club banging display is used by many pros on tour within earshot of children. Is your problem with Tiger's language or Tiger period, because I don't see him doing anything different than other pros or the weekend duffer.

The majority of pros do not smash their clubs into the turf of swear in front of kids.
You'll never find any video footage of Jack, Arnie, and Gary doing any of that crap.
I don't think that you'll see Jordan Spieth doing that tomorrow either, even if he flubs up, or Justin Rose, or Phil the thrill....and the list goes on.
There's still a lot of golfers around who respect the etiquette of this ancient game.
You're right though about weekend duffers.

[Greyfox]

Has nothing to do with intelligence, in sports it has to do with emotion and stress, and many kids learn early on to express themselves that way by their coaches.

Good grief man, this is earth, not Heaven!

Most amateur coaches that I've been associated with have high ethics.
When kids cross the envelope in sports it's usually by imitating sport's role models on TV.

[MutuelClerk]

You'll never find any video footage of Jack, Arnie, and Gary doing any of that crap.

Arnie and Jack were to busy smoking and calming themselves to swear. Gary Player? You win, probably the classiest man to ever play golf.

[tucker6]

Not in my late Mom and Dad's house.
Not in my house.
Never with my children or my grandchildren.
Nor did we hear any of the adult neighbors with language like that when we were kids.
Nor do any of my neighbors talk that way today in front of kids.
I don't know where you got that 98% stat from, but if it's true, society really has a suffered a lowering of intelligence over the last several decades.
welcome to planet Earth. I hope you are here to serve man... ;)

[tucker6]

The majority of pros do not smash their clubs into the turf of swear in front of kids.
You'll never find any video footage of Jack, Arnie, and Gary doing any of that crap.
I don't think that you'll see Jordan Spieth doing that tomorrow either, even if he flubs up, or Justin Rose, or Phil the thrill....and the list goes on.
There's still a lot of golfers around who respect the etiquette of this ancient game.
You're right though about weekend duffers.not true one iota. you need to watch more golf.

[NJ Stinks]

Current Paddy Powers odds:

Spieth 4/9
Rose 9/2
Phil 6-1
Hoffman 28-1
Rory 66-1
Tiger 80-1
Dustin 100-1

No other player quoted.

[raybo]

not true one iota. you need to watch more golf.

I agree, The Masters is not a good measuring stick. Most players are on their very best behavior there, simply out of respect for the place and its history. But, many other pro golfers display the same types of uncontrolled emotion, at other events.

[rastajenk]

I don't think there are any "guests" around the 13th tee. To the extent he even thought about it, maybe he thought it would go unnoticed.

[tucker6]

I agree, The Masters is not a good measuring stick. Most players are on their very best behavior there, simply out of respect for the place and its history. But, many other pro golfers display the same types of uncontrolled emotion, at other events.
Didn't Rory throw his iron 50 yards and into a lake at Doral just last month. Sergio once beat up a sprinkler head and spit into the cup after retrieving his ball. The list is endless. I've never done those things, but imagine that if I had $1.6M riding on a shot, I might be less mild mannered.

[Marshall Bennett]

Didn't Rory throw his iron 50 yards and into a lake at Doral just last month.
Did any spectator dive in after it? :)

[DJofSD]

Did any spectator dive in after it? :)
Later that same day, a diver was videoed entering the water and retrieving the wayward club.

One of many articles: http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/03/a-scuba-diver-retrieved-that-3.html

P. S. The Donald then presented it to him I believe it was the next day.

[DJofSD]

... apparently it rained a little bit overnight. How much, if any, moisture they'll pull out of the greens remains to be seen. However, it could end up being just as soft as it was on Thursday. If so, they'll be throwing darts and the level of excitement will not know any bounds. I hope Feherity is feeling better and got a good nights sleep.

[Greyfox]

I hope Feherity is feeling better and got a good nights sleep.

Feherty was back for some work yesterday.

[raybo]

I agree, Jordan can't just sit even, he's going to have to play. Mickelson will be coming strong today and only 4 strokes back. Jordan needs at least a 2 under today, IMO.

[Greyfox]

I agree, Jordan can't just sit even, he's going to have to play. Mickelson will be coming strong today and only 4 strokes back. Jordan needs at least a 2 under today, IMO.

Agreed. :ThmbUp:
In 1996 Greg Norman melted down from a 5 stroke lead after 8 holes and lost to Sir Nick.
The pressure today will be immense for Jordan to get across that finish line and grab that green jacket.
I'm rooting for him. (He was one of my picks.)

[raybo]

I don't see Spieth melting down, but he cannot become complacent, he must be "cautiously" aggressive when the opportunity presents itself. After all, he has shown the ability to miss in the right locations, so "missing" is not a bad thing, for him.

[LottaKash]

As an aside to the players, has anyone noticed that the "gallery" seems to be like 20/1 or more males than females at this particular venue?...

I wonder why ?..Cost of tickets, or an exclusive club mentality ?...I can only guess...

[DJofSD]

"Thank you, madam."

[Relwob Owner]

not true one iota. you need to watch more golf.


I played a ton of junior golf growing up, still watch a ton of golf and have been to a ton of tournaments. A decent amount of guys may, but the majority of the guys don't behave this way. That being said, I don't see it as classy in the least, but do understand that these guys are competing and their livelihoods are at stake so it isn't all that surprising to me.

[raybo]

As an aside to the players, has anyone noticed that the "gallery" seems to be like 20/1 or more males than females at this particular venue?...

I wonder why ?..Cost of tickets, or an exclusive club mentality ?...I can only guess...

Money and membership gets you tickets to this event. And, I dare say that males garner more numbers of both, than females. After that, interest and business/corporate relationships are significant determining factors also, and males have higher numbers of both of those, than females, also.

I'm not saying that there aren't many females with devout interests in golf, and The Masters specifically, because there are, but the numbers are skewed dramatically towards males.

[raybo]

It appears to be Justin's day, and Jordan seems to be playing to not lose, instead of trying to win. IMO, you either have the game, and play it, or you don't do well at Augusta. He's got to, at some point, decide that he has to play his best game today and put all the fears and doubts aside. He's been able to do that in the past, so he certainly has that ability. But, if he remembers last year's late slippage here, even slightly, that is not going to help him at all.

There are at least 2 close competitors, and as the leader, if you don't at least match those competitors' games today, you will never be safe at Augusta. This is the toughest test, and the pinnacle of golf, no room for mediocrity here.

[raybo]

Ok, I can relax now. I was on pins and needles the whole round. Congratulations Jordan!!

[Greyfox]

Brilliant! Masterful! Classy!

Well done Jordan! :jump:

[NJ Stinks]

The lines come from Paddy Power. My listed plays below are each way. That means I have win bets and place bets on each guy below. (Place bets pay at one-quarter the win price if the player finishes in the top 6 at the Masters.)

20 each way on Rory McIlroy at 11/2

10 each way on J.B. Holmes at 50/1

10 each way on Louis Oosthuizen at 50/1

10 each way on Paul Casey at 60-1


That's 100 total and I would be totally pumped if only I could actually place the bets legally in NJ. :(

Mythically speaking, here's what I would have gotten back in a less paranoid location:

Rory - 75
Casey - 160

Total return - 235

Would have made watching the Masters for 4 days sweeter - even if CBS ignored Casey's awesome back nine!

As for Spieth, I like him a lot even if CBS makes me sick with the adulation.

[Greyfox]

As for Spieth, I like him a lot even if CBS makes me sick with the adulation.

Jim Nantz can do that to listeners when he starts gushing about a particular golfer.

[LottaKash]

Money and membership gets you tickets to this event. And, I dare say that males garner more numbers of both, than females. After that, interest and business/corporate relationships are significant determining factors also, and males have higher numbers of both of those, than females, also.

I'm not saying that there aren't many females with devout interests in golf, and The Masters specifically, because there are, but the numbers are skewed dramatically towards males.

That explains much Raybo...

Recently, my wife and her girlfriend who play a lot together, and so they went down to Orlando for the Arnold Palmer invite, and there sure were a lot of women there...At other venues I see more women as well...

But the Master's sure has it pretty locked up with the guy observers...Still, today there seemed to be many more women than the first 3-days...

============

Jordan Spieth surely wowed me this Masters....So red hot, lately...I like his style and skillset...Good for him...

The game sure needed a boost, I'd say...We sure got it this game...



It seems at some tourneys

[NJ Stinks]

Mythically speaking, here's what I would have gotten back in a less paranoid location:

Rory - 75
Casey - 160

Total return - 235

Would have made watching the Masters for 4 days sweeter - even if CBS ignored Casey's awesome back nine!

As for Spieth, I like him a lot even if CBS makes me sick with the adulation.

I got a little too exuberant when computing my return. :blush:

Rory - 47.50
Casey - 160

Total - 207.50

[lansdale]

He's a "horse for the course."
But there are a lot of younger thoroughbreds out there who he can't beat anymore at the Majors.
I'll have to break my crystal ball if he wins, but I just ain't seeing him getting a new green jacket.

Hi Greyfox,

Wasn't implying that Tiger would be in contention, but only that he played much better than expected in an event where many doubted he would even make the cut.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

I agree, Tiger is looking more like what most of us golfers consider to be the "real" Tiger. Tiger's downfall, including his physical issues the last several years, IMO was due to his obsessiveness, regarding perfection. At his peak, he had all he needed to dominate golf, but his seeking of perfection in his swing, again IMO, was his worst mistake and led to many of his physical issues. Of course the personal problems with his former wife (nationally televised coverage of his marital infidelity), and the resulting black mark on his name and his status in general, certainly affected his game.

He has always been one of the mentally toughest and most disciplined players to ever pick up a club, and those personal problems destroyed some of that mental toughness, discipline, and as a result, his consistency and patience. If you can't consistently "think" your way around the golf course, your scores will certainly suffer.

Hi raybo,

Amazing performance by Spieth, but Tiger was clearly better than many expected. Although a 'no Tiger, no golf' type of fan, I'm surrounded by golfers and Tiger fans, so have listened to innumerable discussions of his career in the past few decades. While the bizarrely hypocritical melodrama involving his extramarital activities has taken a toll on his career (the extracurricular partying of Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle & Co. and scores of others easily dwarfs that of Tiger), after all this time, it seems more likely to me that the overtraining you refer to might be a more likely cause of permanent damage and led to the kind of chronic injuries that seem to continue to hamper his play. That he now often seems to play better in the earlier rounds than over the weekend, seems to indicate that muscle fatigue is a significant factor.

Like most, Nate Silver think it unlikely that he'll break Nicklaus' record at this point, but, since breaking Snead's record seems like a gimme, how much more does he have to prove? Here's the link:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-far-is-tiger-woods-behind-jack-nicklauss-major-winning-pace/


Before posting, I checked his recent stats, and, unlike the average golf fan, was surprised to find that Tiger, despite all his problems, was the leading money-earner on the PGA tour in 2013, and 2nd in 2012. So, although inevitably declining from the superhuman play of his youth, he's still been pretty good.



Cheers,

lansdale

[raybo]

Hi raybo,

Amazing performance by Spieth, but Tiger was clearly better than many expected. Although a 'no Tiger, no golf' type of fan, I'm surrounded by golfers and Tiger fans, so have listened to innumerable discussions of his career in the past few decades. While the bizarrely hypocritical melodrama involving his extramarital activities has taken a toll on his career (the extracurricular partying of Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle & Co. and scores of others easily dwarfs that of Tiger), after all this time, it seems more likely to me that the overtraining you refer to might be a more likely cause of permanent damage and led to the kind of chronic injuries that seem to continue to hamper his play. That he now often seems to play better in the earlier rounds than over the weekend, seems to indicate that muscle fatigue is a significant factor.

Like most, Nate Silver think it unlikely that he'll break Nicklaus' record at this point, but, since breaking Snead's record seems like a gimme, how much more does he have to prove? Here's the link:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-far-is-tiger-woods-behind-jack-nicklauss-major-winning-pace/


Before posting, I checked his recent stats, and, unlike the average golf fan, was surprised to find that Tiger, despite all his problems, was the leading money-earner on the PGA tour in 2013, and 2nd in 2012. So, although inevitably declining from the superhuman play of his youth, he's still been pretty good.



Cheers,

lansdale

I agree with all of that, except, back when Ruth and Mantle were playing there was no internet, no Facebook, no Twitter, and no sports channels where you can see every event that happens. I don't think you can compare the adverse mental and emotional effects caused by the exposing of personal problems and shortcomings today versus back then.

I thought Tiger played much better than most thought he would, especially the Tiger haters out there. As I stated earlier, IMO, Tiger is the best "all around" player ever. Spieth only has to improve his distance, and retain his mental and emotional abilities, and he may someday challenge Tiger for that honor. Sure Jack was great, but Jack had an enormous edge due to his distance at that time. He had a great putting game also, but when you take away his driving ability, all of a sudden he's hitting longer clubs into greens, and that means having to make even longer putts, and the resulting higher scores. Tiger also had a tremendous long game, but he also had a tremendous iron game, even with the longer irons, and his short game and putting were especially strong. Spieth proved that shorter hitters can be dominant, even in today's "hi-tech" equipment" game, so Tiger can still compete with anyone, even though he has lost his one time distance edge. He showed this weekend that he still has the rest of his game, he just needs to get his consistency back and play 4 solid rounds, mentally and emotionally, and stay healthy.

Jordan was my favorite to win the Masters, he has the maturity, the mental toughness, the solid "all around" game, and he was in peak form coming into the tournament this year. He simply had to play his best, which he seemingly did, with very few errors in the wrong locations, at a course that causes and severely punishes errors in the wrong location. Everyone is now comparing him to Jack and Tiger and Bobby J., when they were 21 years old. What else does he need to reach the heights they did? Nothing, in my opinion, not even a longer long game, he's good enough right now to be as consistent as a Tom Kite, and look what he accomplished in money won, year after year. Tom was not a frequent winner, but he was always there in the top 5 or 10. Spieth has that same consistency, but he will win more often than Kite did, I have no doubt about that. I know he has the love of the game, and as long as that remains, and he plays as long as those other guys, the sky is the limit for him.

[cj]

It could be argued that Spieth is already a better golfer than Tiger ever was. Of course the competition is also better and he may never approach Tiger's accomplishments, but that doesn't bode well for Tiger going forward if true. These young guys also have absolutely no fear of Tiger like others did in the past.

[raybo]

It could be argued that Spieth is already a better golfer than Tiger ever was. Of course the competition is also better and he may never approach Tiger's accomplishments, but that doesn't bode well for Tiger going forward if true. These young guys also have absolutely no fear of Tiger like others did in the past.

Possibly, but the young guys who have no fear of him didn't play against him when he had his real game. If he gets that game back, who's to say they won't fear him also? I think one reason that there is so much parity now, is that the recent Tiger was not the real Tiger. He has been just a shell of what he should have been.

He may never get it all back, who knows? But, if he does, how many will have a better game? Maybe Jordan, maybe Justin, maybe Dustin, maybe a coupe of others if they keep progressing and get more consistency in their games. Lots of the younger players have good skills, but the key to being another Tiger is all mental.

[TJDave]

I don't believe Tiger hit one fairway on the front nine on Sunday. His game is a mess.

[DJofSD]

I don't believe Tiger hit one fairway on the front nine on Sunday. His game is a mess.
Was the better or worse than Lefty's?

[TJDave]

Was the better or worse than Lefty's?

Phil was a medalist. Where was Tiger?

[DJofSD]

Where was Tiger? Somewhere down the leader board and really don't care. I only asked about Phil b/c he is renowned for spraying his tee balls all over the place and then recovering with miraculous shots and scrambling.

[TJDave]

Phil:

Fairways hit... Tournament 70%
Last round 50%

Tiger:

Fairways hit...Tournament 54%
Last round 14%

[DJofSD]

Phil:

Fairways hit... Tournament 70%
Last round 50%

Tiger:

Fairways hit...Tournament 54%
Last round 14%
Are those stats for the Masters?

[TJDave]

Yep

[NJ Stinks]

He may never get it all back, who knows? But, if he does, how many will have a better game? Maybe Jordan, maybe Justin, maybe Dustin, maybe a coupe of others if they keep progressing and get more consistency in their games. Lots of the younger players have good skills, but the key to being another Tiger is all mental.

I include Rory as one of the others not mentioned above. Patrick Reed has a lot of potential too.

As a aside, I was bummed out by the coverage yesterday. Too much time devoted to the same players all day long. No doubt in my mind that other countries know how to present golf championships. We don't. :ThmbDown:

[Relwob Owner]

I include Rory as one of the others not mentioned above. Patrick Reed has a lot of potential too.

As a aside, I was bummed out by the coverage yesterday. Too much time devoted to the same players all day long. No doubt in my mind that other countries know how to present golf championships. We don't. :ThmbDown:


I agree about Rory but Patrick Reed has a lot of growing up to do and my money is on him not doing it and never living up to his potential.

CJ made a great point about younger guys not being scared anymore and for that reason, Jordan S may not have that intimidation factor Tiger enjoyed at his peak.

Couldn't agree more about the coverage. Nantz is just so over the top at the Masters about all its glory and tradition and it ends up getting nauseating.

[Greyfox]

I include Rory as one of the others not mentioned above. Patrick Reed has a lot of potential too.

As a aside, I was bummed out by the coverage yesterday. Too much time devoted to the same players all day long.

They devoted time to the players who had the best chance of winning.
That's as it should be.
Why would I want to watch Ian Poulter or Paul Casey making a charge while watching a delayed shot of Jordan, Justin, or Phil?

[TJDave]

Couldn't agree more about the coverage. Nantz is just so over the top at the Masters about all its glory and tradition and it ends up getting nauseating.

Nantz is exactly what the Masters wants him to be. He is their mouthpiece.

[Relwob Owner]

Nantz is exactly what the Masters wants him to be. He is their mouthpiece.

Yep and it makes me often turn the sound off.

[raybo]

I don't believe Tiger hit one fairway on the front nine on Sunday. His game is a mess.

He said on Saturday evening that he would have to come out aggressive early on Sunday and shoot a low score to get into contention. That kind of thinking can, and often does, get you in a lot of trouble. Not much different from what some horse players do, trying to "get even" by forcing play. And yet, he still ended up at -5 and tied for 17th in an event that several past and present PGA professionals call the toughest test they face all year. Yes, his game is not what it used to be, but he hadn't played competitive golf for 2 months, and not much prior to that due to injuries. It was not pretty, sure, but then you can say the same thing of many who finished higher than he did. At Augusta, many people would take 280 before the tournament and feel good about it.

[horses4courses]

I have thought for some time that Tiger will never win another major.
The fact that he could even come close to contention again at Augusta
says much in his favor. More so, considering his recent poor form.

[raybo]

I include Rory as one of the others not mentioned above. Patrick Reed has a lot of potential too.

As a aside, I was bummed out by the coverage yesterday. Too much time devoted to the same players all day long. No doubt in my mind that other countries know how to present golf championships. We don't. :ThmbDown:

They're just showing what the majority of of viewers want to see. I have no problem with that, especially since they do show replays of other players and good shots. What gets me even more is when the coverage takes you off the leaders in order to show close competition between others who are completely out of the winning picture, motocross and supercross coverage for example.

I enjoyed it, and always do at the Masters, with the combination of TV and internet live coverage you can see as much golf as you care to, for the most part (unless of course you have a favorite that is not doing anything at all).

[raybo]

I have thought for some time that Tiger will never win another major.
The fact that he could even come close to contention again at Augusta
says much in his favor. More so, considering his recent poor form.

Yeah, if you come to the Masters not fully in control of your game, you can embarrass yourself quite easily. He did that, but fought on, despite the poor shots and the seeming hopelessness of catching the leaders (too bad some jockeys don't possess the same trait). I just hope he continues on his present course, the game will be much better with him in the mix come Sunday afternoons. He creates interest, and brings people to the game who would otherwise never take the time to become fans, or produce the effort to learn to play or work at improving.

[Relwob Owner]

I don't believe Tiger hit one fairway on the front nine on Sunday. His game is a mess.


I dont see tying for 17th as a "mess" and even if it is, then it bodes well for him if he keeps improving. His game earlier this year when he shot high numbers and withdrew? That was a mess.

Yes, he was all over the place this week, especially on Sunday, but his scrambling/short game was obviously very good if he finished where he did with his long game struggling as much as you say. Good, and a huge improvement over what he was doing earlier this year when he was shanking chips and his short game actually was a genuine "mess". Its hard for me to see this Masters as anything but a positive for him at this point.

[raybo]

I dont see tying for 17th as a "mess" and even if it is, then it bodes well for him if he keeps improving. His game earlier this year when he shot high numbers and withdrew? That was a mess.

Yes, he was all over the place this week, especially on Sunday, but his scrambling/short game was obviously very good if he finished where he did with his long game struggling as much as you say. Good, and a huge improvement over what he was doing earlier this year when he was shanking chips and his short game actually was a genuine "mess". Its hard for me to see this Masters as anything but a positive for him at this point.

Totally agree! :ThmbUp:

[MutuelClerk]

I'm glad Dustin Johnson received help for whatever issues he had. His second shot on 12 Saturday was as bad and weird as I've seen in a long time. Golf is such a weird game the shortest hole on the course is in the head of the longest player on tour. Probably forever. He may win majors but it will not be at Augusta.

[raybo]

He may win majors but it will not be at Augusta.

You might say the same thing of Rory, or any other player who has not already won the Masters.

[Greyfox]

I have thought for some time that Tiger will never win another major.


He wont.

[rastajenk]

He could win at St Andrews this year if he leaves his driver at home and just hits 2-iron stingers all week, like he did the last time he won there.

[raybo]

He wont.

How can you make that statement? I just don't get it. Are you saying he is too old now, not strong enough, can't scramble enough, can't putt well enough, can't put it in the fairway enough, etc.?

I agree that he didn't hit his drives well enough to contend in the Masters, but I am not about to jump out there and say he'll never hit his drives often enough to contend, in any of the majors.

Or, are you able to see his future? :confused:

[Relwob Owner]

How can you make that statement? I just don't get it. Are you saying he is too old now, not strong enough, can't scramble enough, can't putt well enough, can't put it in the fairway enough, etc.?

I agree that he didn't hit his drives well enough to contend in the Masters, but I am not about to jump out there and say he'll never hit his drives often enough to contend, in any of the majors.

Or, are you able to see his future? :confused:

I dont see how anyone can say he will never win another one after seeing his performance last week. He totally bottomed out a few months ago. Somehow, since then, he got things together and finished in the top 20 at Augusta. Whatever he was doing when he practiced on his own during that time obviously worked and given his post tournament interview(when he said he won't be playing many tourneys and will be doing what he did practice wise) I think he will improve even more in the Majors moving forward this year. As someone correctly pointed out, the British could be a very realistic target this year.

[Greyfox]

I thought you guys knew something about horses and handicapping.

Would you bet a formerly great G1 horse who hasn't won a G1 race its last 24 tries?

Tiger can still win a tournament or so.
He may even finish high in Majors.

That said, he will not win another Major.
If you think he will, you'll be disappointed every time.
There are too many young steeds in the field who will beat him in Majors.

[horses4courses]

I believe the reason why Tiger won't win another
major is due to a combination of factors.

The main one is his health.
Back, knees, etc. - it's just not going to get much better for him.

The comfort factor, and where that puts him psychologically.
The man, even after an expensive divorce, must still be very wealthy.
That acts as a handicap when trying to reach the top again.

He still has the desire to win, I'm sure of that.
Hard work in practice could still get him back winning again.
Would I bet on it?
Not a chance.

If I was a member of a betting exchange,
he would be a primary target for me in the "lay" sector.
People will still want to bet on him for a long time to come.

[TJDave]

Tiger has plenty of time left to win more majors. But only if he resists remaking his swing every ten minutes. Jack won at 46. Raymond damn near won twice in his 50's. Greg and Tom nearly won too. Tiger is as equal or better talent wise that all these guys.

[thaskalos]

IMO...Tiger and David Duval are a stark example of the role that the "mental aspect" plays in the game of golf.

[DJofSD]

IMO...Tiger and David Duval are a stark example of the role that the "mental aspect" plays in the game of golf.
Add Dufner to the list.

[Relwob Owner]

I thought you guys knew something about horses and handicapping.

Would you bet a formerly great G1 horse who hasn't won a G1 race its last 24 tries?

Tiger can still win a tournament or so.
He may even finish high in Majors.

That said, he will not win another Major.
If you think he will, you'll be disappointed every time.
There are too many young steeds in the field who will beat him in Majors.

That is a huge stretch as an analogy....How many horses win a G1 and then run 24 more times and try again? None, so your analogy makes little sense and isn't really applicable.

Also, saying he may "finish high" but will never win disproves your own point. If you think he may finish high, then you are still saying he can win because if his game is good enough to finish high, it is good enough to win as well any given week.

[Relwob Owner]

IMO...Tiger and David Duval are a stark example of the role that the "mental aspect" plays in the game of golf.


Totally agree about the mental aspect. Tiger dominated mentally because the whole world thought he could do no wrong and he knew that. After the scandal and all of the embarrassing aspects of it, he knew in his brain that people watching him now knew he is far from perfect and he lost all of his edge. He may never get it back but I have to say it is compelling watching him try.

As for Duval, he always made the most of his game and had a swing that had fundamental flaws from the get go and I think those mechanics, as well as his head being out of place, led to his demise......few can top old Ian Baker Finch for an example of the mental aspect bringing a guy down IMO

[cj]

IMO...Tiger and David Duval are a stark example of the role that the "mental aspect" plays in the game of golf.

At this point, I think it is physical and mental with Tiger. Like I said, the young guys are already at least as good physically as he ever was, maybe better. How is he possibly going to beat them now?

[Greyfox]

That is a huge stretch as an analogy....How many horses win a G1 and then run 24 more times and try again?

Analogies are usually weak. But I didn't want to say hasn't won in 7 years.

[DJofSD]

What will be ironic is when he cannot conquer the courses which have been "Tiger proofed."

[MutuelClerk]

I believe there are a lot of reasons Tiger wont win another major. His health a major factor. Also being exposed in the scandal has had an affect on him too. These younger players are not afraid of him at all. They idolized him as kids but now they aren't afraid. In the past when Tiger won all his majors the players often quivered and went south when he played well. I believe Tiger was the most dominant player ever. But Jack was the best player ever based on his majors firsts and seconds against better company. I root for Tiger but I don't think it's gonna happen for him.

[thaskalos]

At this point, I think it is physical and mental with Tiger. Like I said, the young guys are already at least as good physically as he ever was, maybe better. How is he possibly going to beat them now?
True. But there was a time in the not too distant past when Tiger's problem was entirely mental.

[TJDave]

True. But there was a time in the not too distant past when Tiger's problem was entirely mental.

Still is somewhat. Some commentator said they watched Tiger hit drive after perfect drive on the practice tee then duck hook it on #1.

[DJofSD]

Still is somewhat. Some commentator said they watched Tiger hit drive after perfect drive on the practice tee then duck hook it on #1.
Hell, I did that last week (and what a p*sser). If hooks and slices were merely a mental failing then we'd all be playing for the big bucks. :rolleyes:

[raybo]

I thought you guys knew something about horses and handicapping.

Would you bet a formerly great G1 horse who hasn't won a G1 race its last 24 tries?

Tiger can still win a tournament or so.
He may even finish high in Majors.

That said, he will not win another Major.
If you think he will, you'll be disappointed every time.
There are too many young steeds in the field who will beat him in Majors.

Well, for one thing, I don't bet on golf (it is easier to predict a winner in a G1 than a winner of a Major golf tourney), and for another, you have no way of knowing if he will ever win another major or not. You're not saying that the odds are against his winning another major, you are saying that he has zero chance of ever winning another one. Just as no multiple G1 winning horse has zero odds of winning another G1, no golfer with multiple Major wins has zero odds of winning another one. Nicklaus, Irwin, Trevino, and Floyd, all won a major at ages 46, 45, 44, and 43 years old respectively, Tiger is only 40 so he's got a few years left to win one, and still not be the oldest to have done it in the modern era. Tom Watson lost The Open Championship in a 4 hole playoff in 2009, he was about 60 at the time of that near win.

[Greyfox]

I suppose anything is possible in life, just not very probable.
If it makes you happy, I'll say lhis probability of ever winning a Major again is very very low.
Every horse in a race has a chance in theory.
I just don't think this one will ever win at this level again.

[JustRalph]

I thought he looked beyond his years in the interview after the Masters. He looked somewhat haggard.

Looks to me like he has aged a ton in the last five years.

[Relwob Owner]

Analogies are usually weak. But I didn't want to say hasn't won in 7 years.

Good point

[DJofSD]

... and don't call me Golden Child. (http://www.golfchannel.com/news/doug-ferguson/spieth-sporting-green-hes-not-golden-child/)

[cj]

True. But there was a time in the not too distant past when Tiger's problem was entirely mental.

Agree.