Bitcoin foundation broke?

[DJofSD]

http://www.itworld.com/article/2906875/bitcoin-foundation-said-to-be-out-of-cash.html
The Bitcoin Foundation, an organization that promotes development of bitcoin, is “effectively bankrupt” and has shed most of its staff, a member of the foundation’s board of directors has said.

Two other board members, however, said the foundation was not bankrupt, though in need of some kind of restructuring.
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/1284-the-truth-about-the-bitcoin-foundation/


It's not clear to me exactly what this means as far as it concerns the virtual currency.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Shocking development - bitcoin looked like a sure thing just a few months ago :rolleyes:

[johnhannibalsmith]

It looked like it would be hard not to unravel, but I have to believe that it never really had a fighting chance because too many vested interests wanted it to unravel. I get the sense that in this case "restructure" is more or less a euphemism for "play ball".

[Dave Schwartz]

I have always felt that it was a great opportunity for an relatively small organization to ponzi their way to the top and check out with lots of loot.

Kind of like "Dare to Be Great" founder, Glenn W. Turner.

[LottaKash]

"Tulips" anyone ?....

[classhandicapper]

Money backed by nothing is still nothing. All it has going for it is faith....which IMO is a risky way to try to preserve wealth very long term.

[ReplayRandall]

Money backed by nothing is still nothing. All it has going for it is faith....which IMO is a risky way to try to preserve wealth very long term.
The exact definition of the US Dollar... ;)

[GameTheory]

The Bitcoin Foundation is just an advocacy group and this has nothing actually to do with bitcoin the currency. If there is such a group as the "Strong U.S. Dollar Foundation" and they disbanded it would be like that...

[DeltaLover]

The exact definition of the US Dollar... ;)

Sorry, what you say here is wrong...

US $ is the most "backed" currency ever in the history of the humanity...

Here you can see one of the backers:


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5203c831eab8eac424000008-480/egypt-us-army-tanks-abrams.jpg

[ReplayRandall]

Sorry, what you say here is wrong...

US $ is the most "backed" currency ever in the history of the humanity...

Here you can see one of the backers:


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5203c831eab8eac424000008-480/egypt-us-army-tanks-abrams.jpg


LOL.... :lol: :lol:

[TJDave]

The exact definition of the US Dollar... ;)

The U.S. dollar backed by this vessel and nine more just like her.


http://damontucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/uss-ronald-reagan-500x378.jpg

[ReplayRandall]

The U.S. dollar backed by this vessel and nine more just like her.


http://damontucker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/uss-ronald-reagan-500x378.jpg
That would be called "Concrete Faith"...... :cool:

[johnhannibalsmith]

The Bitcoin Foundation is just an advocacy group and this has nothing actually to do with bitcoin the currency. If there is such a group as the "Strong U.S. Dollar Foundation" and they disbanded it would be like that...

Thanks. I inferred a loftier role from the article.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The Bitcoin Foundation is just an advocacy group and this has nothing actually to do with bitcoin the currency. If there is such a group as the "Strong U.S. Dollar Foundation" and they disbanded it would be like that...

Yet oddly enough, the US dollar index is roughly 3% from its 50-yr average. Maybe the dollar isn't dead yet. There is no other viable fiat currency that can serve the dollar's role. Please name one. You might say, but there's gold - if one actually charts gold against a price index from the early 1900s (a good measure of value for gold over time), it's overvalued by $300 to $400/ounce.

[classhandicapper]

When the economic system goes on tilt even worse than in 2008, try bringing your paper dollars to a bank and converting them into something tangible like a ship, bomb, etc...

You won't even be able to attempt it because it will be a "declared bank holiday" and the FED and politicians will be implementing their plan to bail out the banks using a chunk of your deposits. If they inflate instead, you might be better off storing your wealth in wheel barrels. At least there will demand for those to carry around the money needed to buy tangible goods.

[DJofSD]

When the economic system goes on tilt even worse than in 2008, try bringing your paper dollars to a bank and converting them into something tangible like a ship, bomb, etc...

You won't even be able to attempt it because it will be a "declared bank holiday" and the FED and politicians will be implementing their plan to bail out the banks using a chunk of your deposits. If they inflate instead, you might be better off storing your wealth in wheel barrels. At least there will demand for those to carry around the money needed to buy tangible goods.
Those bills are Federal Reserve Notes. There ain't nuttin' backing 'em. There used to be certificates which were backed by silver but those went bye-bye a long time ago.

[classhandicapper]

Yet oddly enough, the US dollar index is roughly 3% from its 50-yr average. Maybe the dollar isn't dead yet. There is no other viable fiat currency that can serve the dollar's role. Please name one. You might say, but there's gold - if one actually charts gold against a price index from the early 1900s (a good measure of value for gold over time), it's overvalued by $300 to $400/ounce.

I doubt it is overvalued now given that some gold miners are losing money and starting to cut back capex and production at some mines at these prices. That's usually the sign we are near the bottom or at fair value or better.

I did some buying not too long ago based on a prediction that miners would have to do exactly that at $1200 or lower and slowly reduce the new yearly supply over the next few years. That's not a short term price call. It's a long term fundamental call. As long as we remain in this cyclical position of the dollar being the least bad paper money, it will probably remain strong and gold could be weak. But longer term, IMO, gold will do well if the yearly mining supply keeps falling, the cycle turns, or everyone keeps printing money at a fast pace.

[classhandicapper]

Those bills are Federal Reserve Notes. There ain't nuttin' backing 'em. There used to be certificates which were backed by silver but those went bye-bye a long time ago.

Exactly my point.

There is no backing except faith in the US government and banking system. But what happens when the US banking system goes to the precipe like in 2008, but doesn't make it back next time. Maybe that's a low probability event. I'm not smart enough to put a % or date on it. But it's a much bigger risk than the average American understands.

[ReplayRandall]

.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Exactly my point.

There is no backing except faith in the US government and banking system. But what happens when the US banking system goes to the precipe like in 2008, but doesn't make it back next time. Maybe that's a low probability event. I'm not smart enough to put a % or date on it. But it's a much bigger risk than the average American understands.

The US banking system is radically more safe than the Chinese, Swiss or EU banking system as a whole.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I doubt it is overvalued now given that some gold miners are losing money and starting to cut back capex and production at some mines at these prices. That's usually the sign we are near the bottom or at fair value or better.

I did some buying not too long ago based on a prediction that miners would have to do exactly that at $1200 or lower and slowly reduce the new yearly supply over the next few years. That's not a short term price call. It's a long term fundamental call. As long as we remain in this cyclical position of the dollar being the least bad paper money, it will probably remain strong and gold could be weak. But longer term, IMO, gold will do well if the yearly mining supply keeps falling, the cycle turns, or everyone keeps printing money at a fast pace.

It's overvalued by $300 to $400/ounce vs. the long-term trend (vs. a price index). I'm actually anchoring gold to a pricing mechanism, not guessing. Think of it as the P/E of gold.

[_______]

Exactly my point.

There is no backing except faith in the US government and banking system. But what happens when the US banking system goes to the precipe like in 2008, but doesn't make it back next time. Maybe that's a low probability event. I'm not smart enough to put a % or date on it. But it's a much bigger risk than the average American understands.

What gives gold it's value? I'm always curious about the point of view of those who see a base metal as having some intrinsic value that fiat currencies lack.

So far as I can tell, it's the same psychological trick in both cases. Neither has any real value other than our faith that they can be traded for something else we may want in the future.

If the dominant fiat currency in the world ever "doesn't make it back", gold won't help. You'll be better off with farmland, access to clean water, and the knowledge of what to do with them.

[Saratoga_Mike]

_____, you can't print more gold; thus, the love affair. But I very much appreciate your point.

[LottaKash]

What gives gold it's value? .

Throughout man's economic history, Gold has held the place of most value throughout...It is has transcended borders, cultures, races and religions as a common means of doing business.....

Could be because of it's scarcity, and/or because it is one of the most unique of all metals, in that it really cannot be combined with any other metal....Meaning you can't fake it..

In the modern world we have found numerous ways to enhance many new as well as old technologies with it's use..And throughout time it has been valued both as an artistic expression of beauty as well as a status of one's wealth (value)....

The Gold standard has been abandoned in most countries, and the reality of our phony sense of wealth, as in printing more dollars, yen, euros or whatever, keeps the world on the edge of complete financial disaster because of it....I believe that Gold will have it's time again....Why else when the world is on the brink of economic collapse, would a nation such as China which holds most of our National-Debt nowadays, would continue to buy up and possibly corner the market on owning Gold.....Why would so many wealthy people invest so heavily in it as a hedge against phony paper holdings (currency and stocks) Uniform and time honored value, I's say....

Man, in order to have any commerce at all, must have "some" form of value when all others means of trade and value have slipped away into oblivion, and it is GOLD...And as it always has, it will also be in the very near future, I am afraid to say... :eek:

[_______]

LK-

Early in human history sacks of grain or salt, and especially cattle were means of exchange in use long before gold. Gold is easily alloyed so I'm not sure where you got the idea it couldn't be combined with other metals. My wedding ring is white gold which is an alloy of gold, silver, and nickel.

It really didn't come into common use as a currency until the 14th century.

You describe it as an object of beauty and I won't disagree with you but that really just reinforces the point I made earlier about it lacking any intrinsic value. Ideas about beauty can change. I personally would value a cow much more than any amount of gold should there be the kind of currency dislocation you anticipate.

[Robert Fischer]

So far as I can tell, it's the same psychological trick in both cases. Neither has any real value other than our faith that they can be traded for something else we may want in the future.

It's all a psychological trick. It's a system. Ultimately it's based/backed upon 'power'.
But if you go with the flow and enjoy the illusion, it can be pretty good.
It can be GREAT!

Gold is almost universally accepted as a standard, and as a valuable/scarce/expensive-to-produce commodity.
So if you wanted to, you could hide inflation with something like that.

[sammy the sage]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102239&page=2&pp=15&highlight=bitcoin

all this discussed before...some here look :eek:

[dlivery]

Bitcon :bang:

[LottaKash]

LK-

Early in human history sacks of grain or salt, and especially cattle were means of exchange in use long before gold. Gold is easily alloyed so I'm not sure where you got the idea it couldn't be combined with other metals. My wedding ring is white gold which is an alloy of gold, silver, and nickel.

It really didn't come into common use as a currency until the 14th century.

You describe it as an object of beauty and I won't disagree with you but that really just reinforces the point I made earlier about it lacking any intrinsic value. Ideas about beauty can change. I personally would value a cow much more than any amount of gold should there be the kind of currency dislocation you anticipate.

Noname, I am surely not an expert on Gold or History, but I do know that Gold, and in this case the "white gold" can be re-refined, and the yellow gold will most certainly separate out of the alloy as it is, and the result is, it will still be yellow gold...The other part of the while gold, the silver and the nickel, I couldn't say if that is possible, but I suspect that the silver can be separated once again from the nickel...

You said that Gold wasn't in "common use" until the 14th century, that may well be, at least with the common man....Still, even the Bible speaks of Gold as of value, and claims that it can be refined to a pure state, once the dross (slag of other elements and metals are guided off of the melt) is done away with...In the Bible it is used as an analogy akin to the refining of the spirit...

The common man didn't have access to any significant amount of Gold in ancient times, just as in today's times... Gold in large quantities, is still the almost exclusive domain of Nations, Governments and the very Rich, just as it always has been...

But not if, but when, the global economic balloon goes bust what then ?...
Since we, in this nation, are no longer considered agrarians, how then and what with, would we trade in order to live our lives.....We (most)no longer have those sacks of grain, salt or cattle to barter with...What then.?...It will be, as it always was, Gold...When the chit hits the fan, and it will, and if we are not blessed with a stock of anything of value, especially gold, we will become slaves and serfs again, as it always has been...

Intrinsic is, as intrinsic does, and Gold has driven the nations for centuries...Why else would any rich man or nation be buying it in this time in history, in giant portions....To make only computers and rings ?

Bitcoins, oth, has always perplexed me...There is nothing of "any value" that gives it it's worth, other than good will...haha...

[Actor]

Sorry, what you say here is wrong...

US $ is the most "backed" currency ever in the history of the humanity...

Here you can see one of the backers:


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5203c831eab8eac424000008-480/egypt-us-army-tanks-abrams.jpg

The equipment that backs up the U.S. dollar more than any other is 3,000,000 pair of boots.

[classhandicapper]

It's overvalued by $300 to $400/ounce vs. the long-term trend (vs. a price index). I'm actually anchoring gold to a pricing mechanism, not guessing. Think of it as the P/E of gold.

Over a very long term, relationships change. You also get different results depending on when your starting date is. Gold was artificially suppressed at times under the gold standard.

This is much easier.

If it's unprofitable to mine for gold at many mines because the price is too low to cover the costs, people will stop mining it. If demand remains steady and new supply is shrinking, that can't be a bad thing for the price of gold. Gold miners have PEs also. And when they are losing money, that's telling you something very significant about the price and value of gold given current demand.

[classhandicapper]

What gives gold it's value? I'm always curious about the point of view of those who see a base metal as having some intrinsic value that fiat currencies lack.

So far as I can tell, it's the same psychological trick in both cases. Neither has any real value other than our faith that they can be traded for something else we may want in the future.

If the dominant fiat currency in the world ever "doesn't make it back", gold won't help. You'll be better off with farmland, access to clean water, and the knowledge of what to do with them.

I have no problem with owning other tangible assets like farmland. The problem is you can't walk into a store and buy good and services with farmland.

Gold is unique is that it's very attractive, easily divisible into various unit sizes, lasts almost forever, has a large amount of value per size/weight, is relatively uniform in quality (as opposed to diamonds for example) and has other attractive qualities that made it an ideal money.

That's why it has historically been chosen by free markets to serve as money instead of diamonds (not uniform), copper (would require very large amounts for simple transactions), butter, milk, grains (spoil) etc...

[badcompany]

What gives gold it's value? I'm always curious about the point of view of those who see a base metal as having some intrinsic value that fiat currencies lack.

So far as I can tell, it's the same psychological trick in both cases. Neither has any real value other than our faith that they can be traded for something else we may want in the future.

If the dominant fiat currency in the world ever "doesn't make it back", gold won't help. You'll be better off with farmland, access to clean water, and the knowledge of what to do with them.

I haven't seen many bracelets made out of dollar bills. ;)

[GameTheory]

I haven't seen many bracelets made out of dollar bills. ;)

http://www.google.com/search?q=dollar+bill+bracelet

[Steve 'StatMan']

I know/knew two guys from the track who make rings out a bill. The old $100 could be folded to feature the amount on the top like a gem. One likes to make them out of $1 bills and give them away as gifts, especially to kids.