Fla Derby, jock couldn't claim foul?

[Stillriledup]

According to Rick Violette, his jock was going to claim foul, but the judges made the race official and "Ran to the elevator".

I guess nobody was alive to the winner in the Pick 6 for a million + bucks.

[Spiderman]

According to Rick Violette, his jock was going to claim foul, but the judges made the race official and "Ran to the elevator".

I guess nobody was alive to the winner in the Pick 6 for a million + bucks.

I expected that an inquiry or objection would be posted because Materiality bore out and gained some distance. The "official" sign did go up faster than any time that I've seen.

All #s were covered in the Rainbow P6. No conspiracy on that count.

[Brogan]

Who are the stewards at Gulfstream? My initial searches come up empty.

[ReplayRandall]

Who are the stewards at Gulfstream? My initial searches come up empty.
This is the latest ruling from steward's office:

ASSOCIATION RULING
Ruling # 15-11
Date: March 20, 2015
Name: Ramon Morales
Date of Birth: 11/11/66 License #: 1646487
Incident Date: 03/19/15

Rule(s) Violation: Gulfstream Park House Rules: Article IB, b, 3b, C, D, 3, 4b, 11b. Article II F8. Condition Book Claiming Rules (page 9 - …Any horse claimed at the GP winter meet starting with December 6, 2014 will not be eligible to run at any other racetrack until the end of the meet which is April 5, 2015).

Action Taken: After waiving his right to a Formal Hearing in the Stewards Office at Gulfstream Park Trainer Ramon Morales is fined One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) for running the horse “Bye Bye Bella” at another racetrack on Thursday, March 19, 2015 after being claimed from the 2nd Race at Gulfstream Park on January 10, 2015 during the Championship Meet.

Jeffrey A. Noe Association Steward
Donald Brumfield Association Steward

[nijinski]

Is there a view that shows clearly a reason to claim foul .?

From the replay there appears to be slight move to the right by
Materiality in the late stretch run . It also appears he straightened away
quickly . He clearly wins and apparently does not seem to cause Upstart
to lose any chance of catching him .

[horses4courses]

I don't think there was any possibility of the winner coming down.

However, the rider has the right to lodge an objection,
and it needed to be heard.

Probably poor communication between the outrider and jockey.
Nothing more.

Why the big rush to make races official, though?
Get as much tote money back into circulation quickly on a big race day?
I've never understood this.
Waiting a few minutes to go official is no big deal.

Who's to say a rider didn't carry 10 lbs less than he should have
if you don't wait for him to step on the scales?

It just leaves the game more vulnerable for accusations of cheating.
Similar to locking out betting at zero minutes to post, which would
take care of much of the late odds fluctuations while races are running.

These are problems in the sport that are easily remedied.

[classhandicapper]

I was kind of shocked at such a quick "official", especially given how they DQ'd Upstart in the FOY and a lot of people thought that DQ was bogus. You would think they would take a really good look and hear what the jockeys had to say this time even if they made the right call this time anyway.

[Stillriledup]

I was kind of shocked at such a quick "official", especially given how they DQ'd Upstart in the FOY and a lot of people thought that DQ was bogus. You would think they would take a really good look and hear what the jockeys had to say this time even if they made the right call this time anyway.

Of course the DQ was bogus, the outcome wasn't ever affected, the horse who got placed up was lugging in and had some sort of problem and galloped out horribly and had very limited talent and that limited talent was exposed the other day, but i think the idea here remains that a jock should have time to claim foul if he wants to, not sure why the quick run to the elevator in a big race such at that. Anyone's guess as to why a race would go official so fast when it was obvious that at least one of the horse's in the lane didn't maintain an exact straight line (which seems to be the criteria these days).

[v j stauffer]

I don't think there was any possibility of the winner coming down.

However, the rider has the right to lodge an objection,
and it needed to be heard.

Probably poor communication between the outrider and jockey.
Nothing more.

Why the big rush to make races official, though?
Get as much tote money back into circulation quickly on a big race day?
I've never understood this.
Waiting a few minutes to go official is no big deal.

Who's to say a rider didn't carry 10 lbs less than he should have
if you don't wait for him to step on the scales?

It just leaves the game more vulnerable for accusations of cheating.
Similar to locking out betting at zero minutes to post, which would
take care of much of the late odds fluctuations while races are running.

These are problems in the sport that are easily remedied.

To my knowledge there are no jurisdictions that hold making a race official until all jockey's weigh in. Quick Official with regard to weight has been in place in California for many years.

[Some_One]

To my knowledge there are no jurisdictions that hold making a race official until all jockey's weigh in. Quick Official with regard to weight has been in place in California for many years.

Pretty much the rest of the world does wait.

[duncan04]

Sounds like sour grapes from the trainer. There is no reason the jockey couldn't tell the outrider in time that he wanted to claim foul. My guess is the jockey didn't think there was a foul.

[NJ Stinks]

Sounds like sour grapes from the trainer. There is no reason the jockey couldn't tell the outrider in time that he wanted to claim foul. My guess is the jockey didn't think there was a foul.

Gee, I can't imagine why Violette is pissed. First, his horse is DQ'ed on a real iffy call in the FOY (Upstart beat Itsaknockout by about 20 lengths on Saturday) and then his jockey said he had no time to lodge an Objection on Saturday. And Pletcher benefits both times.

Why indeed be a sore loser!

[thespaah]

This is the latest ruling from steward's office:

ASSOCIATION RULING
Ruling # 15-11
Date: March 20, 2015
Name: Ramon Morales
Date of Birth: 11/11/66 License #: 1646487
Incident Date: 03/19/15

Rule(s) Violation: Gulfstream Park House Rules: Article IB, b, 3b, C, D, 3, 4b, 11b. Article II F8. Condition Book Claiming Rules (page 9 - …Any horse claimed at the GP winter meet starting with December 6, 2014 will not be eligible to run at any other racetrack until the end of the meet which is April 5, 2015).

Action Taken: After waiving his right to a Formal Hearing in the Stewards Office at Gulfstream Park Trainer Ramon Morales is fined One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) for running the horse “Bye Bye Bella” at another racetrack on Thursday, March 19, 2015 after being claimed from the 2nd Race at Gulfstream Park on January 10, 2015 during the Championship Meet.

Jeffrey A. Noe Association Steward
Donald Brumfield Association Steward

Would that be the former jockey, Don Brumfield?

[thespaah]

To my knowledge there are no jurisdictions that hold making a race official until all jockey's weigh in. Quick Official with regard to weight has been in place in California for many years.
Same with New Jersey. The NJRC introduced "quick official" back in the 80's.

[ReplayRandall]

Would that be the former jockey, Don Brumfield?
Yes, the very same Don who won over 4500 races. He is serving as a steward at Gulfstream Park for their 2015 winter-spring meet only...

[horses4courses]

I've been watching "quick officials" for close to 30 years.
I still don't see the need for them.

[ReplayRandall]

Rick Violette critical of Gulfstream Park track maintenance, stewards:
http://live.drf.com/nuggets/12266

[thespaah]

I've been watching "quick officials" for close to 30 years.
I still don't see the need for them.
Gets the winners paid faster so they can begin handicapping the next.
The theory might be that additional 3-4 minutes might mean more money churned

[horses4courses]

Gets the winners paid faster so they can begin handicapping the next.
The theory might be that additional 3-4 minutes might mean more money churned

Yeah.
I guess time is a precious commodity when
it comes to churning the pari-mutuel dollar.

I would contend, though, that adding a few minutes
after the race before going official, plus shaving a
couple of minutes off of wagering time as horses
reach the gate, would be beneficial to the sport.

What value can you put on some added integrity?
As they used to say at Amex.....priceless. ;)

[nijinski]

Rick Violette critical of Gulfstream Park track maintenance, stewards:
http://live.drf.com/nuggets/12266

Good link RR This is classic...
“The fastest race of the day was the stewards to the elevator after the last race,” Violette said.

I agree on one thing , the stewards did not give the jock a chance to
object . I don't think there was going to be a change as I've stated before.
Materiality did not appear to cause Upstart to lose .

I think Rick V was looking for redemption on Saturday . Instead he got
aggravation and disappointment from disliking the track and losing to
a horse who was better that day . The stewards quick exit was the
along with Todd winning , the topping!

[ReplayRandall]

Good link RR This is classic...
“The fastest race of the day was the stewards to the elevator after the last race,” Violette said.

I agree on one thing , the stewards did not give the jock a chance to
object . I don't think there was going to be a change as I've stated before.
Materiality did not appear to cause Upstart to lose .

I think Rick V was looking for redemption on Saturday . Instead he got
aggravation and disappointment from disliking the track and losing to
a horse who was better that day . The stewards quick exit was the
along with Todd winning , the topping!
When Violette rants like this, he reminds me of Frank "Pancho" Martin, the trainer of Sham.. :cool:

[nijinski]

When Violette rants like this, he reminds me of Frank "Pancho" Martin, the trainer of Sham.. :cool:

Pancho was a character but they also say he was a very generous man .

The racetrack has had a history of many . My favorites also are Whittingham , Campo and Dutrow . Their rants and quotes are priceless .

Let's see if the stewards address Rick's complaint .

[Stillriledup]

Pancho was a character but they also say he was a very generous man .

The racetrack has had a history of many . My favorites also are Whittingham , Campo and Dutrow . Their rants and quotes are priceless .

Let's see if the stewards address Rick's complaint .

Yeah, i'm sure they'll get right on it.

[biggestal99]

Yes, the very same Don who won over 4500 races. He is serving as a steward at Gulfstream Park for their 2015 winter-spring meet only...

Don also won the kentucky derby in 1966 aboard kauai king.

Allan

[Ruffian1]

A trainer has the ability to call the stewards as soon as they cross the finish line and request a "hold" on the official until they can talk to their jock.
If Rick was that concerned , he should have done so.

[iceknight]

I had not betted at all on this race or even the GP card that day. But I did watch this race as it is a key race, however, I did not remember the trainers for the different horses as I was merely watching to see if there was going to be an upset (odds wise) or not. Irrespective of Rick Violette's rant, moments after the horses crossed the wire - the first thought that went through my mind, "hmm... did upstart's momentum got checked a little there?"
I was expecting the Inquiry sign to go up, but nay- nothing- no objection (of course, now we know why).. Just shows sloppy management of the game.

[Ruffian1]

I had not betted at all on this race or even the GP card that day. But I did watch this race as it is a key race, however, I did not remember the trainers for the different horses as I was merely watching to see if there was going to be an upset (odds wise) or not. Irrespective of Rick Violette's rant, moments after the horses crossed the wire - the first thought that went through my mind, "hmm... did upstart's momentum got checked a little there?"
I was expecting the Inquiry sign to go up, but nay- nothing- no objection (of course, now we know why).. Just shows sloppy management of the game.

I know why as well. It is because The Stewards, one of which is Donnie Brumfield . I think Brumfield knows a little bit about the game.
Rick stated the old "run to the elevator to beat the traffic " joke in frustration. As stated, he had every opportunity to pick up an in house phone or his cell and request a hold immediately after crossing the wire. He chose not to. Sure, he was frustrated. Been there, done that. But people pass judgement on a judgement call and point fingers when in the trainers own judgement, he did not use the avenue given to him for this type of thing. Rick should apologize IMO. It was the heat of the moment. Nobody has asked him why he did not put a hold on the race have they?