Chrome To Royal Ascot ?

[nijinski]

This from facebook .Owners are thinking again!
Royal Ascot next for California Chrome


After a second-place finish in the $10 million Dubai World Cup, California Chrome will go directly to Newmarket, England, to prepare for a start at Royal Ascot, according to co-owner Perry Martin.


sacbee.com

[Some_One]

For what race? Queen Anne (1m) or the Prince of Wales (10f)?

[nearco]

I think it's pretty clear that they realize that his stud potential lies overseas, most likely Japan, with maybe some interest in the southern hemisphere breeding season in Australia. So I think they are taking as many shots as they can to maximize that.

I wish him the best of luck, but can't really see him holding his own over there. But you never know.

[nearco]

For what race? Queen Anne (1m) or the Prince of Wales (10f)?

I would think the Queen Anne. While it's nominally 8f, the nature of the course makes it more like a 9f or 10f American turf race.
Likewise, the Prince of Wales would be like a mile and half race on an American track.
I think he is better suited to the former.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, nobody can say Chrome's connections aren't sporting or adventurous...I wish them luck...

[nijinski]

This from Racing post prior to Cup.

Friend and Chrome
top Royal Ascot wishlist




By James Burn 7:13AM 18 MAR 2015


BRILLIANT Hong Kong miler Able Friend and US Horse of the Year California Chrome are the headline acts Ascot officials hope to entice to Britain for the royal meeting this summer

[PaceMasterT]

Well, nobody can say Chrome's connections aren't sporting or adventurous...I wish them luck...

I love that the owners are not afraid to run a top horse whenever/wherever. Too bad it is because his breeding prospects are suspect and not for the competition/love of the game. I hate the whole win a big race and put a horse up for stud philosophy that is prevalent in modern thoroughbred racing.

[Some_One]

I would think the Queen Anne. While it's nominally 8f, the nature of the course makes it more like a 9f or 10f American turf race.
Likewise, the Prince of Wales would be like a mile and half race on an American track.
I think he is better suited to the former.

If he goes up against Able Friend, I would give CC a 10 length head start and still bet on Able Friend.

[taxicab]

He's going directly to England.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/90967/california-chrome-headed-to-royal-ascot

[OTM Al]

He's going directly to England.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/90967/california-chrome-headed-to-royal-ascot

Might as well enjoy it while they can but he will get smoked there. The turf race he won was listed stakes material in the UK at best.

[nijinski]

I would think the Queen Anne. While it's nominally 8f, the nature of the course makes it more like a 9f or 10f American turf race.
Likewise, the Prince of Wales would be like a mile and half race on an American track.
I think he is better suited to the former.

Looks like they're talking about the' "Prince of Whales" .
I guess they won't really know until he begins to train on that softer grass
no less .
In the meantime as he winds down , I hope he gets to enjoy some green
country pasture .

[nijinski]

He's going directly to England.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/90967/california-chrome-headed-to-royal-ascot

I have to wonder if Sherman is staying or they will find someone there
to assist for this mission .
It is a different world over there .

https://youtu.be/Ls8nwRTf2iQ

[taxicab]

I have to wonder if Sherman is staying or they will find someone there
to assist for this mission .
It is a different world over there .

https://youtu.be/Ls8nwRTf2iQ


Good instincts Nijinski.
It's hard to like Perry Martin after this one....

http://www.drf.com/news/california-chrome-headed-england

[Rex Phinney]

what kind of connections decide this 12 hours after a race that required a 19 hour plane flight?

Give the horse a few days to chill out

These guys are total dipshits.

[nijinski]

what kind of connections decide this 12 hours after a race that required a 19 hour plane flight?

Give the horse a few days to chill out

These guys are total dipshits.

Well it would be nice to hear , Let's see how he came out of this race and
then we'll discuss .
I suspect owner spoke with scout before the Cup .

Don't think the barn is too thrilled and Sherman's may not be either from
some chatter .. Could be rumors . Also heard someone else would
be handling Chrome there .
We'll know soon if it's really going to happen and or if Chrome can handle
the training after this Cup .

I wish the horse well and Sherman too for having to deal with these folks .

[nijinski]

Good instincts Nijinski.
It's hard to like Perry Martin after this one....

http://www.drf.com/news/california-chrome-headed-england

Thanks for the link Taxicab .

Didn't ever picture Sherman orchestrating this .
Yes and Martin is the big shareholder .Maybe he'll get a trainers
license now :lol: :lol: ,


Art "“I was looking forward to giving him a rest,” Sherman said. “I’m not sure everyone realizes that this is going to be a tired horse. That was a hard race on him.”

[Rise Over Run]

These guys are total dipshits.
The partners are Dumb Asses, not dipshits. Get it right.

[kevb]

CC may not be a great horse, but finishing 2nd in the WC is no disgrace.

From the point of view of being an interesting story and adding some drama to the horse racing calendar, I like CC going to Ascot more than I like SB going to the Charlestown Classic.

[Grits]

I think it's pretty clear that they realize that his stud potential lies overseas, most likely Japan, with maybe some interest in the southern hemisphere breeding season in Australia. So I think they are taking as many shots as they can to maximize that.

I wish him the best of luck, but can't really see him holding his own over there. But you never know.

There was a big black horse who almost won the Triple Crown that nobody wanted to stand. Questionable breeding, etc. He held his own pretty well. I think Arthur Hancock and Charlie Whittingham probably made out pretty good on the deal.

You're right, we never know.

[upthecreek]

Well, nobody can say Chrome's connections aren't sporting or adventurous...I wish them luck...

No,just delusional

[ArlJim78]

Well it's never a dull moment with this group. Not the path I would have taken but maybe with a different trainer handling him he can adapt better to the lawn. I wish them luck but my gut says he could get smoked.

What's the target for the fall the Melbourne Cup?

[Shemp Howard]

He's staying as far away from Shared Belief as he can.

After Ascot, maybe Longchamps?

[nearco]

There was a big black horse who almost won the Triple Crown that nobody wanted to stand. Questionable breeding, etc. He held his own pretty well. I think Arthur Hancock and Charlie Whittingham probably made out pretty good on the deal.

You're right, we never know.

I meant CC holding his own on the racecourse, not the breeding shed like you are referring to with Sunday Silence.

[ArlJim78]

I'm trying to picture Coburn in a tux, top hat and tails.

[chadk66]

I love it. It's great for the sport. Can't blame these guys for wanting a tour of the world compliments of CC. His race in Dubai was actually quite amazing considering his wide trip throughout and held gamely to the end. Even after a 16 hr. flight. This horse is no slouch.

[nearco]

I'm trying to picture Coburn in a tux, top hat and tails.

If CC wins, that means the Queen will present Coburn with the cup :eek: :eek:
Uh, oh.... what could possibly go wrong?

[classhandicapper]

To begin with, IMO Chrome ran a very big race for second.

1. It's hard to tell how fast that pace was, but it was faster than in the 1 3/16 race earlier on the card. I thought the pace in that 3yo race looked kind of fast and the race did kind of collapse.

2. The other horses racing with Chrome on the pace all tired, including African Story who had beaten Prince Bishop last out.

3. The winner came from dead last.

4. Being hung 4 wide first turn in what was probably a lively pace is generally a pretty brutal trip, though it's hard to tell how that track was playing. However, it does probably explain why Espinoza didn't have much horse to kick away late on the 2nd turn into the stretch the way Migliore suggested on the telecast after the race. The horse had been used and didn't have that kind of run left.

All that said, this horse has not demonstrated he's a also a top turf horse. It doesn't make much sense to run in England when there are loads of opportunities to run on dirt and turf in the US, make piles more money, and even take on international competition on turf if you are hell bent on maximizing his value for stud overseas. He could run in the Arlington Million. There is a difference between being adventurous and being foolish. On this one, I think they are on the wrong side of that line. I don't care much about the owners, but I do care about the horse. I would WAY rather see him here in the US because I think he still has more big wins left in the tank and could use some reputation restoration at home. This is a very good horse. He may not be great, but he's very very good.

[nearco]

I love it. It's great for the sport. Can't blame these guys for wanting a tour of the world compliments of CC. His race in Dubai was actually quite amazing considering his wide trip throughout and held gamely to the end. Even after a 16 hr. flight. This horse is no slouch.

Gimme a break.

The horse that beat him went wide. The horse that beat him is really not that good a race horse.

You guys make such a big deal out of plane flight. It's not like he walked off a plane and into the starting gate. Horses fly all over the world all the time. They fly to race from Europe to Japan, HK, Australia, and also in reverse. Look at Aidan O'Brien's record for example. Look at Ouija Board's PP's. She is just one of many.

I'm pretty sure they are not sending him to Ascot for sporting reasons. It is predominantly financial, to increase his stud value.

I'm glad to see him go there, but realistically I think he will be in over his head.

They should prep him in something like the Lockinge or the Prix d'Isphan before Ascot, and get a better feel for whether he is to the required standard.

[classhandicapper]

Gimme a break.

The horse that beat him went wide.

There wasn't much difference in ground loss (2 meters or 6-7 feet), but the winner was sitting dead last very relaxed early while Chrome was 4 wide early right on what appears to have been a lively pace. IMO, big difference.

[ArlJim78]

If CC wins, that means the Queen will present Coburn with the cup :eek: :eek:
Uh, oh.... what could possibly go wrong?
It's got "international incident" written all over it.

[Grits]

I meant CC holding his own on the racecourse, not the breeding shed like you are referring to with Sunday Silence.

I'm sorry but your post focused on breeding....you didn't say a word about Ascot's racecourse.

Early on, Mr.Coburn made mistakes with the media. Big ones. Like so many of us, though, the man has learned from his mistakes. He's been fine in his comments for quite some time now. Your question of, "what could possibly go wrong" is pretty small.. and cheap.

[castaway01]

I'm sorry but your post focused on breeding....you didn't say a word about Ascot's racecourse.

Early on, Mr.Coburn made mistakes with the media. Big ones. Like so many of us, though, the man has learned from his mistakes. He's been fine in his comments for quite some time now. Your question of, "what could possibly go wrong" is pretty small.. and cheap.

No, Mr. Coburn has earned whatever criticism he gets. Between the clown show quotes and the bizarre, money-grab handling of the horse's career, he hasn't done anything worthy of respect.

[Grits]

No, Mr. Coburn has earned whatever criticism he gets. Between the clown show quotes and the bizarre, money-grab handling of the horse's career, he hasn't done anything worthy of respect.

We don't agree, and that's ok. The horse has been good for the sport, he's been good for the owners. I'm not sure what's so bizarre, in that he's been turned out, rested, he's not been mistreated or over raced. The horse has shown up every time.

Everything's a money grab. Feel the same about Shared Belief and Charles Town....you may. But again, its ok.

We complain, continuously, about horses not being kept in training. This one, along with Shared Belief, is still in training. This cannot be a bad thing. Maybe they'll send him to Wesley Ward--our stateside man at Ascot.

[Greyfox]

Early on, Mr.Coburn made mistakes with the media. Big ones. Like so many of us, though, the man has learned from his mistakes. He's been fine in his comments for quite some time now. Your question of, "what could possibly go wrong" is pretty small.. and cheap.

Good post. :ThmbUp:
After the Kentucky Derby he was a loose cannon on a couple of occasions.
Since then the owners have been good contributors to racing.
Unfortunately, a person only gets one chance to make a good first impression and Coburn didn't.
We need to cut these owners some slack and recognize they are helping the sport at this stage.

[ronsmac]

I'd be stunned if this horse hit the board at Royal Ascot. Sherman seems to think it's a bad idea, It smells like Seattle Slew running in the Swaps.

[lamboguy]

even though the horse had an excuse yesterday, the field really wasn't that good, a matter of fact for a $10 million race it stunk. he should have been able to put away the horses sitting to the inside of him even though that was probably why they were in the race to begin with was to keep him wide.

it is an awful idea for that horse to attempt the Royal now, not saying he couldn't do it in a year, but not off this race yesterday.

if they are going after the breeding money, they should sell the horse now and call it a day.


the horse has a major flaw, he can't run on the rail or inside. he's a great horse, i love the story, but sometimes you have to know when to walk through the door and close the chapter. if he had won yesterday i don't think i would have sent him to England either.

[chadk66]

Gimme a break.

The horse that beat him went wide. The horse that beat him is really not that good a race horse.

You guys make such a big deal out of plane flight. It's not like he walked off a plane and into the starting gate. Horses fly all over the world all the time. They fly to race from Europe to Japan, HK, Australia, and also in reverse. Look at Aidan O'Brien's record for example. Look at Ouija Board's PP's. She is just one of many.

I'm pretty sure they are not sending him to Ascot for sporting reasons. It is predominantly financial, to increase his stud value.

I'm glad to see him go there, but realistically I think he will be in over his head.

They should prep him in something like the Lockinge or the Prix d'Isphan before Ascot, and get a better feel for whether he is to the required standard.I'm curious if you've ever trained horses?

[chadk66]

I could have sworn people buy, own, raise race horses for money. but what the hell do I know

[biggestal99]

I love it. It's great for the sport. Can't blame these guys for wanting a tour of the world compliments of CC. His race in Dubai was actually quite amazing considering his wide trip throughout and held gamely to the end. Even after a 16 hr. flight. This horse is no slouch.

Yep. Its great for the sport.

so CC has raced at:

1. Hollywood
2. Del Mar
3. Santa Anita
4. Churchill
5. Pimlico
6. Belmont
7. Parx
8.Meydan
and now Ascot.

He's not a great horse but he's quite popular and an ambassador for horseracing in America. no Lasix and travels worldwide.

Allan

[biggestal99]

I'd be stunned if this horse hit the board at Royal Ascot. Sherman seems to think it's a bad idea, It smells like Seattle Slew running in the Swaps.

quite different. Slew was 3yo and quite tired off a onerous triple crown campaign.

CC is 4 and a fresh horse. CC 2 races in 4 months.

Allan

[lamboguy]

the owner's and trainer's should learn something from Baffert, that's a man that don't make mistakes and will never place a horse in the wrong spot like the Royal.

[ronsmac]

quite different. Slew was 3yo and quite tired off a onerous triple crown campaign.

CC is 4 and a fresh horse. CC 2 races in 4 months.

Allan Of course it's not exactly the same thing, but both owners were going against what the trainer thought was right for the horse.

[Grits]

the owner's and trainer's should learn something from Baffert, that's a man that don't make mistakes and will never place a horse in the wrong spot like the Royal.

But we forget that he had 7 horses drop dead in an 18 month period and had no clue as to why. Sorry, but I kinda figure there was a mistake made somewhere there, Lambo.

[biggestal99]

Of course it's not exactly the same thing, but both owners were going against what the trainer thought was right for the horse.

True. Sherman is against running him at Ascot, he was also against running at Meydan too.

maybe its time for a new trainer just like the slew.

Allan

[lamboguy]

But we forget that he had 7 horses drop dead in an 18 month period and had no clue as to why. Sorry, but I kinda figure there was a mistake made somewhere there, Lambo.
you are not wrong and i know where you are coming from on this one. but Baffert would never bring a horse to England after this race yesterday and probably wouldn't have even if the horse won.

[biggestal99]

you are not wrong and i know where you are coming from on this one. but Baffert would never bring a horse to England after this race yesterday and probably wouldn't have even if the horse won.

I don't think Baffert has EVER has an ascot horse. He's not that good of a turf trainer.

Allan

[Rex Phinney]

FWIW I don't think Coburn or Sherman has anything todo with these decisions. After the San Antonio I talked with Coburn for a few minutes, I told him they should race Shared Belief again the Big Cap, that racing needed this rivalry. He agreed said he loved good "American" horse races but his partner had his heart set on Dubai.

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=Rex Phinney]FWIW I don't think Coburn or Sherman has anything todo with these decisions. After the San Antonio I talked with Coburn for a few minutes, I told him they should race Shared Belief again the Big Cap, that racing needed this rivalry. He agreed said he loved good "American" horse races but his partner had his heart set on Dubai.[

Looks like Martin , the 70% owner is in charge of the move .


BTW Sherman was to be on Roger Stein radio show this am . Did anyone
catch this ?

[Valuist]

That field he beat in his only grass race was really weak. There was basically one other horse with talent in there, and it was a filly. I'm not sure how they can yet draw a conclusion that this is a star grass horse.

[horses4courses]

Chrome is not going to win the James' Palace Stakes at RA.
He is just not cut out to beat that caliber of horse on the turf.
Be lucky to hit the board.

Dubai, I thought, was about the purse money.
Royal Ascot can't be, as it pales in comparison.
Prestige, yes. Huge purses, no.

It's all turning out to be one big adventure.

[Relwob Owner]

I'm sorry but your post focused on breeding....you didn't say a word about Ascot's racecourse.

Early on, Mr.Coburn made mistakes with the media. Big ones. Like so many of us, though, the man has learned from his mistakes. He's been fine in his comments for quite some time now. Your question of, "what could possibly go wrong" is pretty small.. and cheap.


Not so sure he has learned much from his comments, other than to not open his mouth. I have a feeling that the same misguided sentiments are still traveling through his head but he did learn not to verbalize them.

Not telling Sherman of their plans to take off to Royal Ascot until after the race. All class. These owners don't have to open their mouths to show their true colors to me. Their horse better do better than the 96 Beyer on the turf he earned on the grass(that was against a pretty weak field) or else he is going to get crushed.

[nijinski]

Sherman sounds really fed up .

Sherman said Martin and co-owner Steve Coburn didn't inform him of the decision to send the dual classic winner to Newmarket to train until after California Chrome's second-place finish in the $10 million Dubai World Cup (UAE-I) at Meydan March 28. Racing Post reports California Chrome is scheduled to be based at Rae Guest's yard at Newmarket and could prep for a run in the June 17 Prince of Wales's Stakes at Royal Ascot with a try in the Al Shaqab Lockinge Stakes at Newbury May 16.

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/90973/sherman-ascot-could-be-rough-on-chrome#ixzz3Vnsn9JaC

[horses4courses]

I'm sure Art Sherman is fed up.

The owners may be headcases, but they're paying the bills.
Unfortunately, there's not much he can do about it.

Sit back, take a deep breath, and bite his tongue.
He's a smart man. :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

Chrome is not going to win the James' Palace Stakes at RA.
He is just not cut out to beat that caliber of horse on the turf.
Be lucky to hit the board.

Dubai, I thought, was about the purse money.
Royal Ascot can't be, as it pales in comparison.
Prestige, yes. Huge purses, no.

It's all turning out to be one big adventure.

Don't get me wrong here.
Chrome is a very good horse, but on dirt.
That win he had on the SA turf was a paid workout.

It's like that UAE Derby winner coming to CD.
They will hope he can compete, but he's up against it.
Very little chance of doing well.

[nijinski]

Don't get me wrong here.
Chrome is a very good horse, but on dirt.
That win he had on the SA turf was a paid workout.

It's like that UAE Derby winner coming to CD.
They will hope he can compete, but he's up against it.
Very little chance of doing well.

Never a dull moment and the horse has no idea . An old
horse quote . " The problem with the horse are the people " .

A new chapter for California Chrome and the a curious one .

[Some_One]

Chrome is not going to win the James' Palace Stakes at RA.
He is just not cut out to beat that caliber of horse on the turf.
Be lucky to hit the board.

Dubai, I thought, was about the purse money.
Royal Ascot can't be, as it pales in comparison.
Prestige, yes. Huge purses, no.

It's all turning out to be one big adventure.

Of course CC isn't going to win the St James Palace, its a race for 3yr olds only.

[horses4courses]

Of course CC isn't going to win the St James Palace, its a race for 3yr olds only.

How droll. :rolleyes:

Louis XIV, Prince of Wales....whatever.......

[Greyfox]

Of course CC isn't going to win the St James Palace, its a race for 3yr olds only.

Now that is what I call "a point well taken." :ThmbUp:

[Some_One]

How droll. :rolleyes:

Louis XIV, Prince of Wales....whatever.......

Prince of Wales is the open 10F G1 held on the 3rd day I believe, the Queen Anne is the open G1 mile (using the straight course) that opens the festival.

[Shelby]

I feel bad for California Chrome. I think he deserves a nice rest at home.

[Dave Schwartz]

You guys make such a big deal out of plane flight. It's not like he walked off a plane and into the starting gate. Horses fly all over the world all the time. They fly to race from Europe to Japan, HK, Australia, and also in reverse. Look at Aidan O'Brien's record for example. Look at Ouija Board's PP's. She is just one of many.

I have never owned a tbred in my life. All I have ever owned were pleasure horses.

... But, I thought that any kind of transport - plane or van - was a potentially a big hazard. I also thought that the longer the trip, the greater the hazard.

Perhaps someone with serious owning/training experience could comment on this?

[Saratoga_Mike]

CC installed as 4-1 co-fav for Royal Ascot race at Paddypower, an Irish bookmaker.

http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/prince-of-wales-stakes

[chadk66]

I have never owned a tbred in my life. All I have ever owned were pleasure horses.

... But, I thought that any kind of transport - plane or van - was a potentially a big hazard. I also thought that the longer the trip, the greater the hazard.

Perhaps someone with serious owning/training experience could comment on this?your right on.

[JustRalph]

Art! Pull your rip cord!!!

[horses4courses]

CC installed as 4-1 co-fav for Royal Ascot race at Paddypower, an Irish bookmaker.

http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/prince-of-wales-stakes

There will no immediate rush to plunge the cash down on him, I'm thinking.

[Some_One]

I'm sure Art Sherman is fed up.

The owners may be headcases, but they're paying the bills.
Unfortunately, there's not much he can do about it.

Sit back, take a deep breath, and bite his tongue.
He's a smart man. :ThmbUp:

This is a one in a lifetime horse for the connections, I think they just want to live through the horse and see where in the world it takes them, I don't think you can really blame them. It's not like the DWC or Ascot is a bad spot for the horse and DWC paid all travel expenses, I'm sure British Racing is pitching in some airfare or something to bring him to the UK.

Over the last couple of years we've complained (or at least I have) about the weak campaigns of some of our HoY's, well we finally got some connections going out there and taking on the world and we're still critical of them? These connections (whether CC or someone like Wes Ward) should be celebrated for embracing the challenge.

[Greyfox]

Over the last couple of years we've complained (or at least I have) about the weak campaigns of some of our HoY's, well we finally got some connections going out there and taking on the world and we're still critical of them? These connections (whether CC or someone like Wes Ward) should be celebrated for embracing the challenge.

Well said. :ThmbUp:
(Unfortunately there are posters on this board "who eat their own" if they see someone breaking ahead in life.)

[Relwob Owner]

This is a one in a lifetime horse for the connections, I think they just want to live through the horse and see where in the world it takes them, I don't think you can really blame them. It's not like the DWC or Ascot is a bad spot for the horse and DWC paid all travel expenses, I'm sure British Racing is pitching in some airfare or something to bring him to the UK.

Over the last couple of years we've complained (or at least I have) about the weak campaigns of some of our HoY's, well we finally got some connections going out there and taking on the world and we're still critical of them? These connections (whether CC or someone like Wes Ward) should be celebrated for embracing the challenge.

Interesting that everywhere this horse goes to 'take on the world' as you say is associated with a pretty hefty purse and sometimes an appearance fee I believe. I think this has more to do with their planning than some altruistic goal of helping the sport.

[horses4courses]

This is a one in a lifetime horse for the connections, I think they just want to live through the horse and see where in the world it takes them, I don't think you can really blame them. It's not like the DWC or Ascot is a bad spot for the horse and DWC paid all travel expenses, I'm sure British Racing is pitching in some airfare or something to bring him to the UK.

Over the last couple of years we've complained (or at least I have) about the weak campaigns of some of our HoY's, well we finally got some connections going out there and taking on the world and we're still critical of them? These connections (whether CC or someone like Wes Ward) should be celebrated for embracing the challenge.

I see your point, and there are some reasons to applaud their actions.
However, it's hard for me not to feel sorry for Art Sherman.

Seems he was kept in the dark about all this.
Suddenly, he's not training his best horse ever.

If CC wins either the Lockinge, or the POW,
he's better on turf than I thought.

I just hope he performs well, and makes it home safely.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Over the last couple of years we've complained (or at least I have) about the weak campaigns of some of our HoY's, well we finally got some connections going out there and taking on the world and we're still critical of them? These connections (whether CC or someone like Wes Ward) should be celebrated for embracing the challenge.

When I heard the Royal Ascot news, your reaction was my reaction. Then I realized the race wasn't until June 17. Best case scenario CC will have raced three times by June of his 4-yr-old career. Big deal. My over/under on his total 2015 starts: 5.5. Better than not racing, but I certainly won't applaud the two owners, especially after their classless actions (the latest being not telling Sherman of their plans until last night) over the past year.

[ArlJim78]

Owners shooting for big purses!! Appalling. Of all the gall:rolleyes:

[horses4courses]

Owners shooting for big purses!! Appalling. Of all the gall:rolleyes:

That's the thing - the purse for last year's POW stakes was under $800K.
The winner got less than $450K. I doubt that it will be any higher this year.

Perry Martin obviously wants a pass into the Owners/Trainers
enclosure at the Royal Ascot meeting. Good luck to him.

I've heard it's a pretty stuffy crowd up there ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

That's the thing - the purse for last year's POW stakes was under $800K.
The winner got less than $450K. I doubt that it will be any higher this year.

Perry Martin obviously wants a pass into the Owners/Trainers
enclosure at the Royal Ascot meeting. Good luck to him.

I've heard it's a pretty stuffy crowd up there ;)

I hope they make him pay for everything!

[NY BRED]

so, let us agree that;

Art Sherman, who was honored, along with his groom, at the Eclipse
awards by Steve Coburn has effectively been humiliated and fired
as CC's trainer.

Plans were made prior to Dubai to race CC and Art wasn't even
placed in the loop.

Great guys at DAP, keep running across the world to get your
kicks and probably ruin your horse (or worse) ,rather than facing the fact your wonderful "gifted" horse should be placed where he can compete
as against shipping him across the world to compete for big
money and lose.

So, as stated earlier .I hope Art Sherman resigns, and
hope Victor follows the same path.

[nearco]

That's the thing - the purse for last year's POW stakes was under $800K.
The winner got less than $450K. I doubt that it will be any higher this year.

Perry Martin obviously wants a pass into the Owners/Trainers
enclosure at the Royal Ascot meeting. Good luck to him.

I've heard it's a pretty stuffy crowd up there ;)

It's not the purse they are after, it's the stud value it brings.
Most G1s in England are fairly paltry compared to US purses, but it doesn't stop Coolmore and all the Euro big guns in running in them, because it turns their colts into multi-million dollar studs.

CC has limited appeal in the US as a stud prospect, because of his unfashionable pedigree. A G1 win in Europe makes his a very marketable as a stallion around the world.

[horses4courses]

so, let us agree that;

Art Sherman, who was honored, along with his groom, at the Eclipse
awards by Steve Coburn has effectively been humiliated and fired
as CC's trainer.

Plans were made prior to Dubai to race CC and Art wasn't even
placed in the loop.

Great guys at DAP, keep running across the world to get your
kicks and probably ruin your horse (or worse) ,rather than facing the fact your wonderful "gifted" horse should be placed where he can compete
as against shipping him across the world to compete for big
money and lose.

So, as stated earlier .I hope Art Sherman resigns, and
hope Victor follows the same path.

That's a bit strong.
The Dubai trip made sense.
He had a realistic chance of winning the DWC, but came up short.
The purse money for second was a major consolation, though.

The horse will have the best of care at Newmarket.
Still, the races he will compete in hardly seem ideal.
He may surprise me, but it's a curious move.

CC's chances of repeating as HOTY here are slim.
If Shared Belief stays sound, there's no one to stop him.
Bayern, or an exceptional 3yo, might have a shot, but
SB can't be much higher than 50/50 to win out.

Still, running at Ascot in mid-June means that racing in the US
is likely out of the question until late August, or Sept., at best.
CC should still be on track for the BC Classic, but there's little
room for error.

I don't know what to make of Espinoza and Sherman's
future involvement with the horse.
Stay tuned........

[horses4courses]

It's not the purse they are after, it's the stud value it brings.
Most G1s in England are fairly paltry compared to US purses, but it doesn't stop Coolmore and all the Euro big guns in running in them, because it turns their colts into multi-million dollar studs.

CC has limited appeal in the US as a stud prospect, because of his unfashionable pedigree. A G1 win in Europe makes his a very marketable as a stallion around the world.

His pedigree is so unfashionable that I doubt
he will be much sought after - even with a G1 Euro win.

If he's not "stud du jour" in the US with his dirt prowess,
Coolmore and Godolphin are hardly going to fork out big bucks.

CC was at his most valuable in 2014,
between mid-May and early June.

[nearco]

His pedigree is so unfashionable that I doubt
he will be much sought after - even with a G1 Euro win.

If he's not "stud du jour" in the US with his dirt prowess,
Coolmore and Godolphin are hardly going to fork out big bucks.

CC was at his most valuable in 2014,
between mid-May and early June.

The Japanese are the ones most interested in buying him. We've known this for a while now. A G1 win on grass in Europe gives Martin/Coburn more bargaining power when negotiating with the Japanese. It also increases his appeal in Australia.
No, he will likely not appeal to Euro breeders.

[horses4courses]

The Japanese are the ones most interested in buying him. We've known this for a while now. A G1 win on grass in Europe gives Martin/Coburn more bargaining power when negotiating with the Japanese. It also increases his appeal in Australia.
No, he will likely not appeal to Euro breeders.

I had a feeling if he had waltzed home in Dubai,
the owners may have gotten an offer they couldn't refuse.

You're right about Japan - major players.
Didn't happen - now it's onto the next chapter.

Funny that even though he is already a G1 turf winner,
everyone knows he won a race that a good G3 horse could have won.

[nijinski]

Rae Guest has a website . Looks good yet modest . They say he will give updates on Chrome and they are excited to be chosen to have him .
If he will be the hands on trainer . Has he had a horse that's had the
success of CC ?
I know he had shipped GR1 winner in Canada years back . He just had
a horse , Mirza placed 12th in the sprint on Saturday.

I imagine they opted for a hard working stable that's affordable .
Everything will be new for CC who had the same daily routines since
age two .

I think a lot of the sentiment written here is the separation of horse and
trainer , as we are used to that connection throughout Chrome's career .

[nearco]

Rae Guest has a website . Looks good yet modest . They say he will give updates on Chrome and they are excited to be chosen to have him .
If he will be the hands on trainer . Has he had a horse that's had the
success of CC ?
I know he had shipped GR1 winner in Canada years back . He just had
a horse , Mirza placed 12th in the sprint on Saturday.

I imagine they opted for a hard working stable that's affordable .
Everything will be new for CC who had the same daily routines since
age two .

I think a lot of the sentiment written here is the separation of horse and
trainer , as we are used to that connection throughout Chrome's career .

Rae's assistant used to work for Art Sherman. That appears to have been one of the main reasons (maybe the only reason) they decided to send the horse there.

[nijinski]

Rae's assistant used to work for Art Sherman. That appears to have been one of the main reasons (maybe the only reason) they decided to send the horse there.

That's interesting .

[PICSIX]

If he goes up against Able Friend, I would give CC a 10 length head start and still bet on Able Friend.

Agreed, I'm a Chrome fan but this is a mistake :(

[NY BRED]

My point and rant is these bums have zero respect to
the connections that allowed them to rake in millions.

By the way, one of the connections is the Horse.

Regardless ,CC is being pointed to finish in the money, with an
easy remedy when he loses(new surface/oversea trip, the jock etc)
rather than facing his stateside rising stars.

Presuming Art and Victor are eliminated, Coburn will again
be able to rant on International TV and/or the press.




If the objective is to sell the horse to overseas connections ,I'm
certain this syndicate will be imploded by the responding offers.

In retrospect remember;
the Belmont rant by Coburn
The demand for 50k to bring CC to Delmar
The Ascot decision and embarrassment to Art Sherman.

What comes around will generally go around.

[Fager Fan]

It's not the purse they are after, it's the stud value it brings.
Most G1s in England are fairly paltry compared to US purses, but it doesn't stop Coolmore and all the Euro big guns in running in them, because it turns their colts into multi-million dollar studs.

CC has limited appeal in the US as a stud prospect, because of his unfashionable pedigree. A G1 win in Europe makes his a very marketable as a stallion around the world.

Does it? He still has the same pedigree. I think some people are taking these owners at their word that they can increase his stud value this way. I don't think this horse is ever going to be coveted by European stud farms. Japan is who they can entice, and Japan doesn't really care about the horse winning on turf. They like dirt horses and pedigrees (and will take lesser pedigrees like Chrome's).

[horses4courses]

DRF Jay Hovdey

Jay Hovdey ‏@JayHovdey 5m5 minutes ago Carlsbad, CA
Compassion for Art Sherman and crew losing California Chrome,but the colt's going to a piece of horse heaven on earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newmarket,_Suffolk


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBXW68zU8AAn17Y.jpg

[Tom]

If CC wins, that means the Queen will present Coburn with the cup :eek: :eek:
Uh, oh.... what could possibly go wrong?

"Mr. Coburn, I present the Queen of England."
"We got a lotta Queens where I come from, too!"

[hougie]

His pedigree is so unfashionable that I doubt
he will be much sought after - even with a G1 Euro win.

If he's not "stud du jour" in the US with his dirt prowess,
Coolmore and Godolphin are hardly going to fork out big bucks.

CC was at his most valuable in 2014,
between mid-May and early June.

Not so fast. His pedigree may not be as bad as you think. There is a report here but I think it costs $2 dollars. Interesting read nonetheless.

PEDLINES #169 May-June 2014 contents:

Commentary - California Chrome


http://www.reines-de-course.com/2007_index.htm

Martin certainly did is homework. Chrome was bred from a dam out of a Ky. blue hen (look up the meaning) tons of greatness behind him top and bottom line and crossing breeding as the geat Ky. and world breeders do--7th generation forward amazing speed, stamina, and soundness--

[nads1420]

Does the horse go back to Art when he comes back after England? He sounded devastated.. felt bad for him

[horses4courses]

Does the horse go back to Art when he comes back after England? He sounded devastated.. felt bad for him

I can't answer that for sure, but the article below states that
Steve Sherman will be travelling over there in about a month.
I get the feeling this is temporary, and the Shermans' are still
involved.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/2/9782307/california-chrome-given-a-two-week-break-by-rae-guest

[Rex Phinney]

Not so fast. His pedigree may not be as bad as you think. There is a report here but I think it costs $2 dollars. Interesting read nonetheless.

PEDLINES #169 May-June 2014 contents:

Commentary - California Chrome


http://www.reines-de-course.com/2007_index.htm

Martin certainly did is homework. Chrome was bred from a dam out of a Ky. blue hen (look up the meaning) tons of greatness behind him top and bottom line and crossing breeding as the geat Ky. and world breeders do--7th generation forward amazing speed, stamina, and soundness--

If you think he is going to go over there and in 3 months be able to compete with top flight horses who have been doing things on that surface every day of their life since they were born you are wrong.

He doesn't have the same turn of foot he once did, and he has never won a race that was a real dog fight. He has never diced thru an entire field to win nor has he ever done much come from behind running.

This isn't a super versatile adaptable horse, he is one who wins a certain way.

It looks to me like these guys (mainly Martin) pretty much think they know it all, to hell with the thousands of connections and professionals who know that an American horse will not do well there coming off a career full of dirt starts. They must know better because they bred a Kentucky Derby winner for $10,000. LOL

[Some_One]

The one thing going for him is that UK middle distance races are usually run at a slow pace, he should be able to easily get to the front and freewheel from there which many here believe is when he is at his best.

[nijinski]

The one thing going for him is that UK middle distance races are usually run at a slow pace, he should be able to easily get to the front and freewheel from there which many here believe is when he is at his best.

From what I've seen they run crowded together too . No pony to escort
him to post I gather , going the other direction , many new changes .

I think the Brits will be very excited to have our Derby winner run there.
I also think the competing connections will be very happy to beat him
too , LOL .

Rae Guest will probably get more calls and interviews . I'll be checking
his website and FB page when Chrome starts to train after his two week
rest . Will be interesting .

[ronsmac]

The one thing going for him is that UK middle distance races are usually run at a slow pace, he should be able to easily get to the front and freewheel from there which many here believe is when he is at his best.That's true, but they also throw a lot of rabbits in some of those races.

[horses4courses]

The one thing going for him is that UK middle distance races are usually run at a slow pace, he should be able to easily get to the front and freewheel from there which many here believe is when he is at his best.

Didn't help Verrazano much.
Coolmore knew they had a good investment even if he bombed on the turf.
He bombed on the turf. :ThmbDown:

Chrome, imo, is a better horse.
Not as well bred, but a better racehorse.
He has, also, shown that he has a pretty good action on turf.
Firm turf at Santa Anita, which is a world apart from the UK heath,
but turf all the same. Very interesting to see how he fares,
although the odds are against him.

[Frost king]

Every horse at Mountaineer and Turf Paradise has the same type of pedigree as California Chrome. That is why, there is nobody interested in purchasing the horse. The only difference between CC and the plugs at The Mountain and Turf Paradise, is that he can run, while the others can't. So because one can run, does not make him a stallion. The odds of him producing commercially, are very low. He is basically just like Kitten's Joy, nobody wanted him as a stallion. So Ramsey, had to create his own market for the horse. Bred him to a ton of mares, of all different bloodlines, until he found his own nicks, and then started racing and winning with them. Ever notice, the Kitten Joy's bred by other people other than Ramsey, are not as good. The only ones that can run are his own home breds. This is where, these clowns find themselves. Not having enough money to pull it off, so they think they can create the market by racing the horse all over the place. People that understand the breeding game, know which side is up. As far as the breeding industry, is concerned, he would have better off been a gelding. Eventually, he will end up in some dead end state breeding program, like in Texas/Oklahoma etc, servicing mares at $2000-3000 a cover. Not bad, but not the jackpot, they are looking for.

[thespaah]

I love that the owners are not afraid to run a top horse whenever/wherever. Too bad it is because his breeding prospects are suspect and not for the competition/love of the game. I hate the whole win a big race and put a horse up for stud philosophy that is prevalent in modern thoroughbred racing.
I concur....It's refreshing. And may I say, "old school".

[nearco]

Didn't help Verrazano much.
Coolmore knew they had a good investment even if he bombed on the turf.
He bombed on the turf. :ThmbDown:

Chrome, imo, is a better horse.
Not as well bred, but a better racehorse.
He has, also, shown that he has a pretty good action on turf.
Firm turf at Santa Anita, which is a world apart from the UK heath,
but turf all the same. Very interesting to see how he fares,
although the odds are against him.

Verrazano hardly bombed.
He was credible 2nd in the Queen Anne and 3rd in the Lockinge in his first start on grass/off a layoff/in another country with a different style of racing.

He was hurt in the Eclipse where he finished up the track. The 10f distance was never going to be to his liking anyway, but a moot point as he came out of the race lame.

[thespaah]

I have to wonder if Sherman is staying or they will find someone there
to assist for this mission .
It is a different world over there .

https://youtu.be/Ls8nwRTf2iQ
My guess is the ownership will bring in a UK trainer.
Home field advantage

[thespaah]

The partners are Dumb Asses, not dipshits. Get it right.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[nijinski]

My guess is the ownership will bring in a UK trainer.
Home field advantage

He will be under the care of Rae Guest .

[taxicab]

Every horse at Mountaineer and Turf Paradise has the same type of pedigree as California Chrome. That is why, there is nobody interested in purchasing the horse. The only difference between CC and the plugs at The Mountain and Turf Paradise, is that he can run, while the others can't. So because one can run, does not make him a stallion. The odds of him producing commercially, are very low. He is basically just like Kitten's Joy, nobody wanted him as a stallion. So Ramsey, had to create his own market for the horse. Bred him to a ton of mares, of all different bloodlines, until he found his own nicks, and then started racing and winning with them. Ever notice, the Kitten Joy's bred by other people other than Ramsey, are not as good. The only ones that can run are his own home breds. This is where, these clowns find themselves. Not having enough money to pull it off, so they think they can create the market by racing the horse all over the place. People that understand the breeding game, know which side is up. As far as the breeding industry, is concerned, he would have better off been a gelding. Eventually, he will end up in some dead end state breeding program, like in Texas/Oklahoma etc, servicing mares at $2000-3000 a cover. Not bad, but not the jackpot, they are looking for.


Oh brother.....
BTW......running 2nd without Lasix in the worlds richest race might of bumped the number up.
From Bloodhorse:


f California Chrome does not win the Belmont, his anticipated entering stud fee is projected to be around $20,000 to $25,000. With a Triple Crown title, the fee could easily double, according to Charlie Boden, head of sales for Darley.

[biggestal99]

Didn't help Verrazano much.
Coolmore knew they had a good investment even if he bombed on the turf.
He bombed on the turf. :ThmbDown:

.

2nd in the queen anne at ascot can hardly be considered a bomb, can it

If you want to talk about bombs at ascot, think animal kingdom who wanted no part of the royal meet as chalkie.

Allan

[forced89]

If Sherman wasn't consulted, or if consulted, recommended against this, he should fire the owners and let the world know they are out of control.

[Frost king]

He won't, because he has made more money with this horse, than he has at anytime in his career as a trainer. Put yourself in his shoes.

[SandyW]

If Sherman wasn't consulted, or if consulted, recommended against this, he should fire the owners and let the world know they are out of control.
DAP, just about the right name for these owners.

[OTM Al]

If Sherman wasn't consulted, or if consulted, recommended against this, he should fire the owners and let the world know they are out of control.

Great way to never get another owner again.

[classhandicapper]

Verrazano hardly bombed.
He was credible 2nd in the Queen Anne and 3rd in the Lockinge in his first start on grass/off a layoff/in another country with a different style of racing.

He was hurt in the Eclipse where he finished up the track. The 10f distance was never going to be to his liking anyway, but a moot point as he came out of the race lame.

I agree. Not sure breeder's felt about it, but I thought Verrazano enhanced his value running on the turf even though he didn't win. He ran quite well and was rated well off the races.

The difference is that CC doesn't have the kind of turf pedigree that Verrazano had.

[horses4courses]

CC installed as 4-1 co-fav for Royal Ascot race at Paddypower, an Irish bookmaker.

http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/prince-of-wales-stakes

Looks like Paddy & Co. got caught up in the hoopla a bit.
Chrome is as high as 10-1 for the POW now - much more realistic odds.

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/flat/prince-of-wales-stakes/winner

[Mystic]

Every horse at Mountaineer and Turf Paradise has the same type of pedigree as California Chrome. That is why, there is nobody interested in purchasing the horse. The only difference between CC and the plugs at The Mountain and Turf Paradise, is that he can run, while the others can't. So because one can run, does not make him a stallion. The odds of him producing commercially, are very low. He is basically just like Kitten's Joy, nobody wanted him as a stallion. So Ramsey, had to create his own market for the horse. Bred him to a ton of mares, of all different bloodlines, until he found his own nicks, and then started racing and winning with them. Ever notice, the Kitten Joy's bred by other people other than Ramsey, are not as good. The only ones that can run are his own home breds. This is where, these clowns find themselves. Not having enough money to pull it off, so they think they can create the market by racing the horse all over the place. People that understand the breeding game, know which side is up. As far as the breeding industry, is concerned, he would have better off been a gelding. Eventually, he will end up in some dead end state breeding program, like in Texas/Oklahoma etc, servicing mares at $2000-3000 a cover. Not bad, but not the jackpot, they are looking for.

I disagree and wouldn't be surprised to see the Japanese buy him. I know they were interested in him a few months ago.

[Mystic]

If Sherman wasn't consulted, or if consulted, recommended against this, he should fire the owners and let the world know they are out of control.

I'll be surprised if the horse ever steps foot (hoof) in his barn again.

[Mystic]

Great way to never get another owner again.

Oh please, everyone can see how stupid the owners have been and are. Sherman will do just fine either way he chooses to go with this.

[classhandicapper]

Looks like Paddy & Co. got caught up in the hoopla a bit.
Chrome is as high as 10-1 for the POW now - much more realistic odds.

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/flat/prince-of-wales-stakes/winner

Did they leave a "0" off that 10-1. ;)

[OTM Al]

Oh please, everyone can see how stupid the owners have been and are. Sherman will do just fine either way he chooses to go with this.

You want to turn people off to you, rat one of their own out in public and see where it gets you.

[Mystic]

You want to turn people off to you, rat one of their own out in public and see where it gets you.

I wouldn't think Sherman would want any of them as owners if that were the reason they didn't want him to train for them. Everyone likes Art and I have yet to hear anyone say anything bad about the guy or that he is a bad trainer.

[nijinski]

If Sherman wasn't consulted, or if consulted, recommended against this, he should fire the owners and let the world know they are out of control.

Looks Stephen Nagler and Ken Smith met with him while on their Ascot
promotional tour . They had breakfast at Los Al . Guess he didn't commit ,
but now seeing he knew what owners would be approached with .
So they made final arrangements at Dubai with Martin .

Curious of what Wes Ward\s opinion is on the decision .

[Relwob Owner]

Great way to never get another owner again.

Sherman has a long history of success and I don't think he has to worry about that. He was simply being honest and I would guess that he has dealt with a lot of crap from them that he did keep to himself already. I don't think anyone will shy away from him simply because he told the truth(assuming he did).

[classhandicapper]

Let's face it, these owners were WAY over their heads from the start. They know next to nothing and got very lucky. I don't have a problem with that. We need as many owners as we can find. We all started from zero. It's more a problem if you are a fan of racing and the horse. You'd like to see the horse handled and represented in a way that matches your views. To me, there is a difference between being aggressive and being foolish. I think they are on the wrong side of that line given that he's totally unproven against quality on turf, there's nothing in his pedigree that screams turf, and there are opportunities to earn more money and face an international field on turf here if they want.

If he was mine, he'd be freshened a little (depending on how it came out of the race). I'd look for some winning spots, space his races and keep him fresh, and look forward to an eventual rematch with Shared Belief in either the Classic or before. If I had a temporary case of insanity (at least given my conservatism), I might try the Arlington Million along the way. That's a great purse, the field is typically good but nowhere near Ascot level, and I could take a shot and find out if I could enhance his value further to overseas breeders.

[thespaah]

He will be under the care of Rae Guest .
And there ya have it.....

[thespaah]

You want to turn people off to you, rat one of their own out in public and see where it gets you.
I concur.....This business can be very political...

[horses4courses]

Did they leave a "0" off that 10-1. ;)

They might see a rush at triple digits.
Heck, everything else might scratch out of the race. ;)

[Relwob Owner]

You want to turn people off to you, rat one of their own out in public and see where it gets you.


Based on their behavior, I'm not sure that most owners are necessarily going to consider Coburn and Martin "one of their own".

[JustRalph]

Interesting that everywhere this horse goes to 'take on the world' as you say is associated with a pretty hefty purse and sometimes an appearance fee I believe. I think this has more to do with their planning than some altruistic goal of helping the sport.


You should be a diplomat. Love the way you say this :ThmbUp:

I'm a big fan of reading between the lines etc. I was just trying to catch up with this thread......don't know how I missed this the first time :lol:

[NY BRED]

CC was at his most valuable in 2014,
between mid-May and early June.[/QUOTE]
H4C;
I think our thoughts are relatively close to CC's prestige during his
3 year old campaign vs now.

Anyone with timeform #'s could easily see there were at least 3 other
opponents at Double digit odds who could easily beat CC, and yes, I had the winner, but lost the tri/super when CC ran second.

Regardless, CC raced once on the grass, and it would be a miracle
if this horse became a superstar in Europe, based on his pace/speed #'s
and the turf configuration(hills etc.).

If this horse is injured due to these jerks, PETA will have a field day
condemning the racing business.

Yes, breakdowns can occur with any horse regardless of careful
owners and favorable vet reports. Placing a horse in this type of
scenario ,at least in my opinion, squarely places the horse in danger
due to these greedy sob's aptly called DAP.

Ironically, all this banter occurs in the wake of The Chief's death
who "never squeezed the lemon".

You could never produce a movie or write a book with this script..

[Relwob Owner]

You should be a diplomat. Love the way you say this :ThmbUp:

I'm a big fan of reading between the lines etc. I was just trying to catch up with this thread......don't know how I missed this the first time :lol:

Ha! I wish I was more of a diplomat. Truth be told, the English major in me was just trying to find a place to crobar in the word "altruistic".

[marksinger]

With many racing fans, including myself, loving California Chrome, I think he shouldv'e stayed here in the Good Old USA and he'd still make alot of money in appearance fees and purses. I think GREED rears its ugly head.

[Relwob Owner]

With many racing fans, including myself, loving California Chrome, I think he shouldv'e stayed here in the Good Old USA and he'd still make alot of money in appearance fees and purses. I think GREED rears its ugly head.


Totally agree. Funny how Coburn spouted off so much about CC being "Americas Horse" and now he won't be seen here for months.....

[Redboard]

I think it’s a good move. He’ll avoid this year’s tough US handicap division (Shared belief, Bayern). I don’t see anybody who can touch him, and I believe he'll run the table. He’ll easily win the Prince of Wales's and then the King George/Queen Elizabeth stakes at Ascot. The Juddmonte stakes at York shouldn’t be a problem. And now that Treve retired, he’ll win the Arc by daylight, followed by a triumphant return home for a victory in the BC Classic, just to silence those doubters who still think he didn’t deserve HOY.

[Grits]

I think it’s a good move. He’ll avoid this year’s tough US handicap division (Shared belief, Bayern). I don’t see anybody who can touch him, and I believe he'll run the table. He’ll easily win the Prince of Wales's and then the King George/Queen Elizabeth stakes at Ascot. The Juddmonte stakes at York shouldn’t be a problem. And now that Treve retired, he’ll win the Arc by daylight, followed by a triumphant return home for a victory in the BC Classic, just to silence those doubters who still think he didn’t deserve HOY.

You're just goofing around. Big into APRIL FOOL'S DAY, right?

He's a good horse, but he never has been, nor will he every be, good enough to win the Arc.

[Relwob Owner]

I think it’s a good move. He’ll avoid this year’s tough US handicap division (Shared belief, Bayern). I don’t see anybody who can touch him, and I believe he'll run the table. He’ll easily win the Prince of Wales's and then the King George/Queen Elizabeth stakes at Ascot. The Juddmonte stakes at York shouldn’t be a problem. And now that Treve retired, he’ll win the Arc by daylight, followed by a triumphant return home for a victory in the BC Classic, just to silence those doubters who still think he didn’t deserve HOY.


Like Grits, I wonder if this is April Fools talk....tough US handicap division?

[Mystic]

Here is Martin's take on why he sent Chrome to England.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91023/martin-defends-sending-chrome-to-ascot

[mostpost]

I would think the Queen Anne. While it's nominally 8f, the nature of the course makes it more like a 9f or 10f American turf race.
Likewise, the Prince of Wales would be like a mile and half race on an American track.
What objective evidence do you have that this is the case. If it is the case then any good European miler could come over here and dominate at a mile and a quarter. I do not notice that being true.

Even if the Royal Ascot course is tougher than the typical US track, it is tougher for all the horses.

[mostpost]

Might as well enjoy it while they can but he will get smoked there. The turf race he won was listed stakes material in the UK at best.
Amazing how so many in this thread consider winning a grade 1 race as a bad thing. Can we wait until Chrome has at least run in England before we send him to the glue factory?

[mostpost]

what kind of connections decide this 12 hours after a race that required a 19 hour plane flight?

Give the horse a few days to chill out

These guys are total dipshits.
The 19 hour flight was three weeks before the race. The horse was on an airplane. He flies well. He didn't swim to Dubai. He was going to fly home on Tuesday. Instead of a 19 hour flight home he had a shorter flight to England. Instead of going from the hot Dubai desert to hot Southern California, the horse will be going to cool England.

[biggestal99]

The 19 hour flight was three weeks before the race. The horse was on an airplane. He flies well. He didn't swim to Dubai. He was going to fly home on Tuesday. Instead of a 19 hour flight home he had a shorter flight to England. Instead of going from the hot Dubai desert to hot Southern California, the horse will be going to cool England.

Many a horse goes from dubai to the uk without turning a hair

Very commonplace.

Allan

[mostpost]

To begin with, IMO Chrome ran a very big race for second.

1. It's hard to tell how fast that pace was, but it was faster than in the 1 3/16 race earlier on the card. I thought the pace in that 3yo race looked kind of fast and the race did kind of collapse.

2. The other horses racing with Chrome on the pace all tired, including African Story who had beaten Prince Bishop last out.

3. The winner came from dead last.

4. Being hung 4 wide first turn in what was probably a lively pace is generally a pretty brutal trip, though it's hard to tell how that track was playing. However, it does probably explain why Espinoza didn't have much horse to kick away late on the 2nd turn into the stretch the way Migliore suggested on the telecast after the race. The horse had been used and didn't have that kind of run left.

All that said, this horse has not demonstrated he's a also a top turf horse. It doesn't make much sense to run in England when there are loads of opportunities to run on dirt and turf in the US, make piles more money, and even take on international competition on turf if you are hell bent on maximizing his value for stud overseas. He could run in the Arlington Million. There is a difference between being adventurous and being foolish. On this one, I think they are on the wrong side of that line. I don't care much about the owners, but I do care about the horse. I would WAY rather see him here in the US because I think he still has more big wins left in the tank and could use some reputation restoration at home. This is a very good horse. He may not be great, but he's very very good.
I agree with 1 through 4. As for the sentence which I bolded, I agree if you add the word "yet." California Chrome has only had one race on the turf. He won that race. The competition was nothing to write home about, but you can only beat the ones in the race. Let's wait until Chrome has raced in a few strong turf races before we decide.

[Some_One]

What objective evidence do you have that this is the case. If it is the case then any good European miler could come over here and dominate at a mile and a quarter. I do not notice that being true.


Ravens Pass, Declaration of War, Giants Causeway?

[Some_One]

Many a horse goes from dubai to the uk without turning a hair

Very commonplace.

Allan

In the last year:

Side Glance has done Dubai - Singapore - UK - USA - Australia - Dubai

Red Cadeaux has done Dubai - Japan - UK - Australia - HK - Australia

[mostpost]

Gimme a break.

The horse that beat him went wide. The horse that beat him is really not that good a race horse.

You guys make such a big deal out of plane flight. It's not like he walked off a plane and into the starting gate. Horses fly all over the world all the time. They fly to race from Europe to Japan, HK, Australia, and also in reverse. Look at Aidan O'Brien's record for example. Look at Ouija Board's PP's. She is just one of many.

I'm pretty sure they are not sending him to Ascot for sporting reasons. It is predominantly financial, to increase his stud value.

I'm glad to see him go there, but realistically I think he will be in over his head.

They should prep him in something like the Lockinge or the Prix d'Isphan before Ascot, and get a better feel for whether he is to the required standard.
Not really true. Look at the replay again. California Chrome was four wide all the way around the first turn. Prince Bishop was last and in the one or two path. Prince Bishop move somewhat outside down the backstretch but it does not seem that he was ever outside of CC. Only late in the far turn did Prince Bishop race noticeably outside Chrome.

I agree that he should have a prep race before Ascot.

[Saratoga_Mike]

CC has drifted up to 6-1 at PaddyPower (bookmaker), up from his opening price of 4-1, after Weld-trained Free Eagle joined the fray. The Grey Gatsby is now offered at 4-1 and Free Eagle at 9/2.

[Redboard]

Cmon people. We all know what's going on here. CC is going to embaress himself. Sure he gave a good account in Dubai. Europe is a different story. Let's move on. If he hits the board in any race in Europe, I will donate $1k to the the number 1 horse racing discussion borard on the web, PA. As long as one of you take me up on this. You would have to put up the money first, by depositing $1k to PA's paypal account. If I lose, so what? The worst that can happen is I get to support PA.

So, is there anyone out there who will bet me? I didn't think so.

[classhandicapper]

Here is Martin's take on why he sent Chrome to England.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91023/martin-defends-sending-chrome-to-ascot

He is correct that if CC wins or even runs huge at Ascot he will significantly increase breeder interest from the rest of the world. But IMHO he has the risk assessment wrong.

CC's one race on turf was a winning one, but he outclassed that field badly and the race was slow. IMO it did not demonstrate any real fondness for turf. It demonstrated he does not hate it. It's no wonder the rest of the world didn't care. From my own handicapping perspective, based on that race, I would bet that the horse is inferior on turf.

IMO, his chances of winning at Ascot are minimal and his chances of running poorly and wasting a few months (or worse) are quite high.

IMO, a win against an good but not sensational international field in a race like the Arlington Million would be noticed and give the horse a better shot of winning or at least not getting embarrassed like at Ascot.

IMO, what this guy is doing is betting on a undervalued long shot hoping to make a score. IMO, the horse will finish off the board and the adventure could set him back for the rest of the campaign.

[taxicab]

Well,they might as well run CC in England.
If they listened to trainer Art Sherman and not gone to Dubai it would of cost the owners two million dollars......right ?
CC would of had to win four Gr.1 races to earn that money back.
Sorry Art......you're the trainer, but your disagreement about Dubai cost you a say in where to run CC.
Back to England....
CC is coming off a bang up effort in the richest race in the world,so he fits in any race class wise.
He runs well on all types of surfaces[Synthetic/Dirt/Turf],so who cares if his next couple races are grassy.
The majority owner does have the final say in choosing CC's races....it's his call.
CC just ran well without Lasix.
And he thrives on racing.
He's a race horse.....you might as well race him.

[Rex Phinney]

Nothing like throwing your partner and trainer under the bus, while at the same time pointing out that you didn't want the race against Shared Belief which in terms of the sport was a huge deal.

Sure Martin calls the San Antonio a bad prep race for Dubai, now, that its all over.

I'll say it again, this guy is a real dipshit. He's at the beginning of a string of time when he could find races all over the US in a pretty nice handicap division and instead he is lollygagging trying to make the big stud fee score on a horse that isn't going to have stud value unless he starts throwing winners. PERIOD.

I can't help but find it ironic the way these guys have come full circle, they starting out boasting about how they bred their horse for $10,000 and just a year later here they are picking races and continents with the sole intention of raising the stud value.

In the meantime how many other horses have they bought? How much money have they sunk back into the game? Horse racing has changed their lives forever and all they are interested in is taking all they can from it.

[nearco]

Not really true. Look at the replay again. California Chrome was four wide all the way around the first turn. Prince Bishop was last and in the one or two path. Prince Bishop move somewhat outside down the backstretch but it does not seem that he was ever outside of CC. Only late in the far turn did Prince Bishop race noticeably outside Chrome.

I agree that he should have a prep race before Ascot.

According to Trakus...
Prince Bishop covered 2042 meters
CC covered 2044 meters

2 meters, or 6.5 less ground. For all intents and purposes the ran the same distance.

[Rex Phinney]

Well,they might as well run CC in England.
If they listened to trainer Art Sherman and not gone to Dubai it would of cost the owners two million dollars......right ?
CC would of had to win four Gr.1 races to earn that money back.
Sorry Art......you're the trainer, but your disagreement about Dubai cost you a say in where to run CC.
Back to England....
CC is coming off a bang up effort in the richest race in the world,so he fits in any race class wise.
He runs well on all types of surfaces[Synthetic/Dirt/Turf],so who cares if his next couple races are grassy.
The majority owner does have the final say in choosing CC's races....it's his call.
CC just ran well without Lasix.
And he thrives on racing.
He's a race horse.....you might as well race him.

I'll take the position that by the time they pay for the travel, boarding, training and jockey fees for this 4 month long trip they won't have made a dime from it.

The field for the Dubai race was crap. Let me see him beat Palace Malice and Shared Belief in the Met Mile, then we can talk about him belonging in any class. Shared Belief railroaded him, just like Bayern did in Pennsylvania.

[Rex Phinney]

According to Trakus...
Prince Bishop covered 2042 meters
CC covered 2044 meters

2 meters, or 6.5 less ground. For all intents and purposes the ran the same distance.

Perry Martin thinks you're lying and he want's $50,000 for mentioning his horse in this post...

Steve Coburn thinks you are a coward...

mostpost thinks CC is the 2015 HOTY...

[nijinski]

I won't attempt to do an April fools regarding CC . I never
believed that Jay Z bought him anyway :lol: .

Just wanted to say that Chrome landed safe and sound in England and is settling in at Rae Guest's stable .

[Tall One]

According to Trakus...
Prince Bishop covered 2042 meters
CC covered 2044 meters

2 meters, or 6.5 less ground. For all intents and purposes the ran the same distance.


Thought I'd missed the wide trip CC got, but I saw Victor urging his horse early on the turn, and he was beat in the stretch with 300y to go. CC was by far second best, and while he may not be a full 1 1/4 horse right now, they're not going to find the answers in England.

[Relwob Owner]

Nothing like throwing your partner and trainer under the bus, while at the same time pointing out that you didn't want the race against Shared Belief which in terms of the sport was a huge deal.

Sure Martin calls the San Antonio a bad prep race for Dubai, now, that its all over.

I'll say it again, this guy is a real dipshit. He's at the beginning of a string of time when he could find races all over the US in a pretty nice handicap division and instead he is lollygagging trying to make the big stud fee score on a horse that isn't going to have stud value unless he starts throwing winners. PERIOD.

I can't help but find it ironic the way these guys have come full circle, they starting out boasting about how they bred their horse for $10,000 and just a year later here they are picking races and continents with the sole intention of raising the stud value.

In the meantime how many other horses have they bought? How much money have they sunk back into the game? Horse racing has changed their lives forever and all they are interested in is taking all they can from it.

Rex, you saved me some time with your post....his 'I told you so' to Sherman and Coburn is just unreal.

[Stillriledup]

But we forget that he had 7 horses drop dead in an 18 month period and had no clue as to why. Sorry, but I kinda figure there was a mistake made somewhere there, Lambo.


Thanks for bringing this up.

Funny how if a doctor or dentist had 7 patients drop dead and they had no clue why, there might be a review of their license....with horse trainers, seems like nobody cares about malpractice, the horses have no voice, no harm no foul, no fine, no suspension, no problem, nothing to see, nothing to hear, nothing to know.

[taxicab]

I'll take the position that by the time they pay for the travel, boarding, training and jockey fees for this 4 month long trip they won't have made a dime from it.

The field for the Dubai race was crap. Let me see him beat Palace Malice and Shared Belief in the Met Mile, then we can talk about him belonging in any class. Shared Belief railroaded him, just like Bayern did in Pennsylvania.


His travel/board to and from Dubai was paid for by the powers that be in Dubai.
The training fees in England are about the same as the states.....so that's a wash.
How much do you think it's going to cost them to pay a jockey for two races ?
By my count the 4 month journey will have them ahead 2 million minimum(don't forget his placing without the use of Lasix in the Gr. 1 increased his value as a stallion).
Crap huh.....The DWC field had 7 Gr. 1 winners in it. :eek:
CC has run in and hit the board in 3 of the 5 biggest races on the planet....he's a class fit in any race in the world.
Palace Malice has been in witness protection since Moby was a minnow....let me know when he actually runs in a race again.
CC was beaten less than two lengths by Shared Belief.....I doubt the owners are shaking in their boots.
It's funny how you keep bringing up the Pa. Derby.......there might of been a few other races CC ran in.
And BTW......where is Bayern ?
BTW number 2......Shared Belief didn't run in Dubai because Hollendorfer will not run any of his horses without medications.

[Cratos]

According to Trakus...
Prince Bishop covered 2042 meters
CC covered 2044 meters

2 meters, or 6.5 less ground. For all intents and purposes the ran the same distance.
Also from the DWC T-Charts:

POC @ 400m
CC. - .5m from rail
Prince Bishop - .5 m from rail

POC @ 800m
CC - 4.7m from rail
Prince Bishop - 5.5m from rail

POC @ 1200m
CC - 4.5m from rail
Prince Bishop - 5.0m from rail

POC @ 1600m
CC - .5m from rail
Prince Bishop - .5m from rail

Finish @ 2000m
CC - 1.1m from rail
Prince Bishop - 3.2m from rail

Therefore the difference at the end of the race is insignificant.

[Rex Phinney]

His travel/board to and from Dubai was paid for by the powers that be in Dubai.
The training fees in England are about the same as the states.....so that's a wash.
How much do you think it's going to cost them to pay a jockey for two races ?
By my count the 4 month journey will have them ahead 2 million minimum(don't forget his placing without the use of Lasix in the Gr. 1 increased his value as a stallion).
Crap huh.....The DWC field had 7 Gr. 1 winners in it. :eek:
CC has run in and hit the board in 3 of the 5 biggest races on the planet....he's a class fit in any race in the world.
Palace Malice has been in witness protection since Moby was a minnow....let me know when he actually runs in a race again.
CC was beaten less than two lengths by Shared Belief.....I doubt the owners are shaking in their boots.
It's funny how you keep bringing up the Pa. Derby.......there might of been a few other races CC ran in.
And BTW......where is Bayern ?
BTW number 2......Shared Belief didn't run in Dubai because Hollendorfer will not run any of his horses without medications.

Crown him Bro.

Give him another HOTY right? I mean he is hitting the board left and right.

The Dubai field was crap yes, from the looks of the race only the top 2 wanted any part of that distance. The others looked way out of their league the last 1/4 of the race.

Say what you want about Hollendorfer. His gelding is the best thing in four legs right now. He turned in another epic work this week. He was always the best horse, his wretched candy ride feet are the only thing that can stop him.

Palace Malice will wreck CC if they both show up in full health.

Perry Martin is still a dipshit. His horse will never win another G1.

[Some_One]

Also consider what races will CC be missing here while in the UK, the Whitney and maybe the Stephan Foster? If it doesn't go well, he'll be back in plenty of time for the Pacific Classic and BC.

[Cholly]

Cmon people. We all know what's going on here. CC is going to embaress himself. Sure he gave a good account in Dubai. Europe is a different story. Let's move on. If he hits the board in any race in Europe, I will donate $1k to the the number 1 horse racing discussion borard on the web, PA. As long as one of you take me up on this. You would have to put up the money first, by depositing $1k to PA's paypal account. If I lose, so what? The worst that can happen is I get to support PA.

So, is there anyone out there who will bet me? I didn't think so.

A grand is waaayyy too rich for Cholly’s blood, but I hate for a man who is looking for action to get totally stiffed...would this interest you?

If Chrome fails to finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in either of two starts on English turf, I’ll make a $100 donation in your name to the horse retirement charity of your choice, provided it be a credible entity. But if he should accomplish the described placing, you will make a $100 donation to Old Friends, the charity that recently returned Silver Charm to Kentucky and is providing his (and many other horses’) care.

Bet on?

[GaryG]

I see him getting thrashed on the grass in the UK. In fact, I doubt that he will win another race before being sold to Asian interests for stud duty.

[Tall One]

Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but whats the distances of the races they're pointing him towards over there?

[Rex Phinney]

A grand is waaayyy too rich for Cholly’s blood, but I hate for a man who is looking for action to get totally stiffed...would this interest you?

If Chrome fails to finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in either of two starts on English turf, I’ll make a $100 donation in your name to the horse retirement charity of your choice, provided it be a credible entity. But if he should accomplish the described placing, you will make a $100 donation to Old Friends, the charity that recently returned Silver Charm to Kentucky and is providing his (and many other horses’) care.

Bet on?

If Redboard is ok with it, I'm in for $100.

You put up $100 for old friends (That'll be my pick) vs. my $100 for old friends on your behalf and $100 from Redboard for PA.

[Redboard]

Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but whats the distances of the races they're pointing him towards over there?

I haven’t heard anything definitive but they will probably be aiming for the Prince of Wales’s Stakes(G1) at 10f on June 17th . There’s a two-day May meet May 8-9th where he’ll probably run in a stakes race as a warmup.

[nijinski]

I haven’t heard anything definitive but they will probably be aiming for the Prince of Wales’s Stakes(G1) at 10f on June 17th . There’s a two-day May meet May 8-9th where he’ll probably run in a stakes race as a warmup.

They hope to use the Lockinge Stakes at a mile in Newbury as a prep ,
if all is well with Chrome .

[nearco]

Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but whats the distances of the races they're pointing him towards over there?

Either the 8f Queen Anne or the 10f Prince of Wales.
Possible prep in the Lockinge over 8f at Newbury in mid May.

Both the Queen Anne and the Lockinge are over straight mile courses.
The Prince of Wales is around two 90 degree turns.

Ascot course map.....
http://www.systemlays.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ascot-racecourse.jpg


Newbury course map....
http://images.racingpost.com/course_maps/large/newbury.jpg

[Tall One]

Thanks for the replies, guys and track layouts nearco!


Id think they'd consider a mile prep first before a longer try. I mentioned this a couple pages back, but I don't think he's a ten furlong horse right now. Turf might move him up, but I guess we'll wait and see what transpires. I saw on the twitter machine they're using heat lamps in his stall to imitate So Cal weather. Lots of questions on my end still for this move.

[Redboard]

If Redboard is ok with it, I'm in for $100.

You put up $100 for old friends (That'll be my pick) vs. my $100 for old friends on your behalf and $100 from Redboard for PA.

Ok. I’m for toning it down. How about this: if CC hits the board I donate $100 to Old Friends KY; if he doesn’t, Cholly and Rex will donate $50 each to Turning for Home PA.
Rex I’m assuming you want to bet for CC, it wasn’t quite clear from your post.

[camourous]

Ok. I’m for toning it down. How about this: if CC hits the board I donate $100 to Old Friends KY; if he doesn’t, Cholly and Rex will donate $50 each to Turning for Home PA.
Rex I’m assuming you want to bet for CC, it wasn’t quite clear from your post.


Turning for Home does good things at Parx

[Redboard]

It's got "international incident" written all over it.

Don't worry. He's currently going through several sessions with professor Henry Higgins and learning to say his vowels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFLlW0HQL_g

[Redboard]

..................

Both the Queen Anne and the Lockinge are over straight mile courses.




Staying on straight courses at 8f will make things easier for him. He’ll have plenty of room to avoid traffic and won’t have to learn how to turn right.

[Cholly]

Ok. I’m for toning it down. How about this: if CC hits the board I donate $100 to Old Friends KY; if he doesn’t, Cholly and Rex will donate $50 each to Turning for Home PA.
Rex I’m assuming you want to bet for CC, it wasn’t quite clear from your post.
I appreciate Mr. Phinney’s enthusiasm, and applaud his sporting spirit (and enjoy his spirited posts while often disagreeing with them)... but working out a three-way bet over the internet challenges Cholly’s rumored-to-be-addled mind. What say this time we keep it simple with your hundred & my hundred? btw, enjoyed researching Turning For Home--good folks!

If the world were slightly more perfect, we’d meet at the race and settle up afterward. But sadly, instead of you and me, it’s going to be Coburn and Martin swilling champagne with Her Royal H. Some dumb asses have all the luck.

I’ve followed but stayed out of the fray of this thread. The Doubters make some good points, and the limelight has certainly exposed warts on Cinderella/Team Chrome. But I spiritedly dispute those who diss the quality of the Dubai field CC faced. There was TEN MILLION dollars on the line. That’s the equivalent of winning Kentucky Derby five times. The world’s best was there. Anybody who thought they could win it...they were in it.

The only sad take-away of a great race-night was the connections of Shared Belief shying away from the world’s richest race...just because they didn’t think their horse could run without raceday meds. It convinces me of what I’ve always suspected: it’s not the horses that are addicted to lasix, it’s the trainers.

[Rex Phinney]

Ok. I’m for toning it down. How about this: if CC hits the board I donate $100 to Old Friends KY; if he doesn’t, Cholly and Rex will donate $50 each to Turning for Home PA.
Rex I’m assuming you want to bet for CC, it wasn’t quite clear from your post.

No you have it backwards for me.

What I was doing is making it $200 against Chrome and $100 for him.

So if he hits the board in both races You and I owe $100 each.

[horses4courses]

Art Sherman looks like he's surviving okay today at Santa Anita :lol:
Posing for pics with Chrome fans. :ThmbUp:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBtCWHuUgAEQvN7.jpg

Natalie Cristine ‏@NatalieC1988 23m23 minutes ago
We met Art Sherman! California Chrome's Trainer! @santaanitapark #CaliforniaChrome #DerbyWeekend #ArtSherman

While I am sure he is not overjoyed about the English foray,
he will continue to go about his business like the true professional he is.

[taxicab]

Crown him Bro.

Give him another HOTY right? I mean he is hitting the board left and right.

The Dubai field was crap yes, from the looks of the race only the top 2 wanted any part of that distance. The others looked way out of their league the last 1/4 of the race.

Say what you want about Hollendorfer. His gelding is the best thing in four legs right now. He turned in another epic work this week. He was always the best horse, his wretched candy ride feet are the only thing that can stop him.

Palace Malice will wreck CC if they both show up in full health.

Perry Martin is still a dipshit. His horse will never win another G1.


Crown him bro ?
Another HOY ?
WTF are you talking about ?
I never said anything near that.

If you want to point out a throw away post of mine and get after me a bit that's quite OK with me......no skin off my nose.
But when you counter with a bowl load of unfactual BS with your usual delusional disorder syndrome, don't go all gold star pompous on me when I call you on your pitiful post.
And BTW.....diversionary tactics after you've been made to look the fool only clown you down a notch.

[Tall One]

Art Sherman looks like he's surviving okay today at Santa Anita :lol:
Posing for pics with Chrome fans. :ThmbUp:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBtCWHuUgAEQvN7.jpg



While I am sure he is not overjoyed about the English foray,
he will continue to go about his business like the true professional he is.


Guess hes doing ok..

[Rex Phinney]

Crown him bro ?
Another HOY ?
WTF are you talking about ?
I never said anything near that.

If you want to point out a throw away post of mine and get after me a bit that's quite OK with me......no skin off my nose.
But when you counter with a bowl load of unfactual BS with your usual delusional disorder syndrome, don't go all gold star pompous on me when I call you on your pitiful post.
And BTW.....diversionary tactics after you've been made to look the fool only clown you down a notch.

You haven't made anyone look a fool. Calm down.

You're making excuses,

"Shared Belief only beat him 2 lengths"

"Hitting the board with no medications will increase his stud value"

"Let's pretend the Pennsylvania Derby never happened"

And I'm delusional for saying the horse is mismanaged because even with all his talent he hasn't won a race on dirt in close to a year. Ok.

They are chasing a stud value that doesn't exist. I think they are gonna run him at Ascot so they'll have a built in excuse when he loses. maybe Martin is a realist who knows his horse can't beat G1 competition on dirt. I mean he hasn't done it in 5 tries now, and he still has NEVER won in open company.

[mostpost]

You haven't made anyone look a fool. Calm down.

You're making excuses,

"Shared Belief only beat him 2 lengths"
Shared Belief beat him California Chrome once and California Chrome beat Shared Belief once-by a greater margin.

"Hitting the board with no medications will increase his stud value"

"Let's pretend the Pennsylvania Derby never happened"
No, but let's understand the reason for the result; first race in fifteen weeks after an injury and boxed in most of the race.

And I'm delusional for saying the horse is mismanaged because even with all his talent he hasn't won a race on dirt in close to a year. Ok.
Since the Preakness, California Chrome has run six times. He was injured at the start of the Belmont, but still finished fourth in spite of a not too great ride. Due to that injury his training was delayed and he was a short horse for the Pennsylvania Derby. He lost the Breeders Cup Classic by a neck and a nose and finished four lengths ahead of the superhorse Shared Belief. He won the Hollywood Derby on the grass, a surface he had never run on before. After sometime off he finished second in two major races.

They are chasing a stud value that doesn't exist. I think they are gonna run him at Ascot so they'll have a built in excuse when he loses. maybe Martin is a realist who knows his horse can't beat G1 competition on dirt. I mean he hasn't done it in 5 tries now, and he still has NEVER won in open company.
This idea that he has never won in open company is just totally goofy. The Santa Anita Derby is not a restricted race. The Kentucky Derby is not a restricted race. The Preakness is not a restricted race. Nor is the Belmont.

Races for two year old's or races for three year old's are not restricted because they are open to all two year old's or all three year old's. A restricted race would be a race for maidens or non winners of.... A race for horses bred and/or foaled in a certain state would be a restricted race.

You could say that California Chrome has never beaten older horses, but even there you would be wrong. Several horses aged four years old and up finished well behind him in the Breeders Cup Classic. In fact Prince Bishop is the only older horse to finish ahead of California Chrome-Shared Belief is the same age.

[Some_One]

This idea that he has never won in open company is just totally goofy. The Santa Anita Derby is not a restricted race. The Kentucky Derby is not a restricted race. The Preakness is not a restricted race. Nor is the Belmont.

Races for two year old's or races for three year old's are not restricted because they are open to all two year old's or all three year old's. A restricted race would be a race for maidens or non winners of.... A race for horses bred and/or foaled in a certain state would be a restricted race.

You could say that California Chrome has never beaten older horses, but even there you would be wrong. Several horses aged four years old and up finished well behind him in the Breeders Cup Classic. In fact Prince Bishop is the only older horse to finish ahead of California Chrome-Shared Belief is the same age.

Ignorant post of the year

From dictonary.com
restricted
[ri-strik-tid]
1.
confined; limited.

[mostpost]

They are chasing a stud value that doesn't exist. I think they are gonna run him at Ascot so they'll have a built in excuse when he loses. maybe Martin is a realist who knows his horse can't beat G1 competition on dirt. I mean he hasn't done it in 5 tries now, and he still has NEVER won in open company.
That makes no sense. They're sending him to Ascot so they won't look bad when he loses??? In his last three races on American soil, three horses have beaten California Chrome. Only one of those-Shared Belief is completely healthy. California Chrome could have stayed home. He could have run in any number of Grade 1 races which SB was not running in. Instead they chose to make the difficult trip to Dubai and then continue on to England.

I don't know how California Chrome will do at Royal Ascot and neither do his connections. Bravo to them for being willing to find out.

Some people think the glass is half full. Others think the glass is half empty.
You think the glass is half empty and there is a hole in it.

[mostpost]

Ignorant post of the year

From dictonary.com
restricted
[ri-strik-tid]
1.
confined; limited.
I know the dictionary definition of restricted. I am disagreeing with the goofy theory that the Triple Crown races and the major preps leading up to them are inferior races just because they are limited to three year old's. This is especially true since, as a three year old, California Chrome finished ahead of every older horse he ran against.

[taxicab]

You haven't made anyone look a fool. Calm down.

You're making excuses,

"Shared Belief only beat him 2 lengths"

"Hitting the board with no medications will increase his stud value"

"Let's pretend the Pennsylvania Derby never happened"

And I'm delusional for saying the horse is mismanaged because even with all his talent he hasn't won a race on dirt in close to a year. Ok.

They are chasing a stud value that doesn't exist. I think they are gonna run him at Ascot so they'll have a built in excuse when he loses. maybe Martin is a realist who knows his horse can't beat G1 competition on dirt. I mean he hasn't done it in 5 tries now, and he still has NEVER won in open company.
Actually you do a pretty good job of making yourself look a fool.....you don't need my help.
BTW....how come in this post you didn't address :"Crown him bro/Give him another HOY right?"-when I called you on that BS ?.....I never even hinted at that....did I ? Yes or No ?.....well? what's the answer to that Rex?

Don't flat out lie, those quotes that you just wrote were incorrect.
The correct quotes were made to address the false statements you wrote in message #146.......they weren't excuses for anything (as you claim).

I love the way you change my words to suit your means:

What I said: "CC was beaten less than 2 lengths by Shared Belief".....strictly a factual statement in the context of my post.
What you just wrote: "Shared Belief only beat him 2 lengths".....the "only" changes the context of the sentence to make it sound like an excuse(which I wasn't making to begin with).

What I said: "It's funny how you keep bringing up the Pa. Derby......there might of been a few other races CC ran in".
What you just wrote: "Let's pretend the Pennsylvania Derby never happened"......not even close.
Once again....you're twisting context/changing my words to suit your means.

Newsflash Rex....CC's Lasix free placing in a Gr. 1 absolutely increases his value as a stallion.......you changed that quote also. :eek:

And No.....I didn't say you were delusional because the horse was mismanaged.....If you say the horse is mismanaged,that's your opinion.
You have delusional disorder because........I don't have enough time to make the list.

BTW :Have I ever made one excuse for this horse when he got beat ?
And when CC got beat did I ever say the horse that beat him wasn't best ?
The answer to both questions is No.
I never once in any thread made any excuses for CC.
So don't say I ever made excuses for CC.....that's a lie.
I make my points on CC by producing factual statistics/opinions.

You can voice your opinion on CC and his connections anyway you so choose,this is a horse racing message board....that's what you're supposed to do.
But if you want to pull up my posts......don't think I'm going sit here and let you run pompous through them and spin em off as something they aren't.
I'm through with you on this subject.

[depalma113]

This idea that he has never won in open company is just totally goofy. The Santa Anita Derby is not a restricted race. The Kentucky Derby is not a restricted race. The Preakness is not a restricted race. Nor is the Belmont.

Races for two year old's or races for three year old's are not restricted because they are open to all two year old's or all three year old's. age.

Wow!

[Redboard]

No you have it backwards for me.

What I was doing is making it $200 against Chrome and $100 for him.

So if he hits the board in both races You and I owe $100 each.

I appreciate Mr. Phinney’s enthusiasm, and applaud his sporting spirit (and enjoy his spirited posts while often disagreeing with them)... but working out a three-way bet over the internet challenges Cholly’s rumored-to-be-addled mind. What say this time we keep it simple with your hundred & my hundred? btw, enjoyed researching Turning For Home--good folks!

If the world were slightly more perfect, we’d meet at the race and settle up afterward. But sadly, instead of you and me, it’s going to be Coburn and Martin swilling champagne with Her Royal H. Some dumb asses have all the luck.

I’ve followed but stayed out of the fray of this thread. The Doubters make some good points, and the limelight has certainly exposed warts on Cinderella/Team Chrome. But I spiritedly dispute those who diss the quality of the Dubai field CC faced. There was TEN MILLION dollars on the line. That’s the equivalent of winning Kentucky Derby five times. The world’s best was there. Anybody who thought they could win it...they were in it.

The only sad take-away of a great race-night was the connections of Shared Belief shying away from the world’s richest race...just because they didn’t think their horse could run without raceday meds. It convinces me of what I’ve always suspected: it’s not the horses that are addicted to lasix, it’s the trainers.

Ok. Cholly & Rex. The bet is on. I'll even throw in another $10 if CC hits the board AND Tiger makes the Master's cut.
:)

[GaryG]

You think the glass is half empty and there is a hole in it.That is how it looks to me. If he gets drowned in that prep race will they even go to Royal Ascot? This is a precocious horse who outran his breeding. He will come home badly in need of an extended vacation. Then they will see what is left in the tank.

[Rex Phinney]

Actually you do a pretty good job of making yourself look a fool.....you don't need my help.
BTW....how come in this post you didn't address :"Crown him bro/Give him another HOY right?"-when I called you on that BS ?.....I never even hinted at that....did I ? Yes or No ?.....well? what's the answer to that Rex?

Don't flat out lie, those quotes that you just wrote were incorrect.
The correct quotes were made to address the false statements you wrote in message #146.......they weren't excuses for anything (as you claim).

I love the way you change my words to suit your means:

What I said: "CC was beaten less than 2 lengths by Shared Belief".....strictly a factual statement in the context of my post.
What you just wrote: "Shared Belief only beat him 2 lengths".....the "only" changes the context of the sentence to make it sound like an excuse(which I wasn't making to begin with).

What I said: "It's funny how you keep bringing up the Pa. Derby......there might of been a few other races CC ran in".
What you just wrote: "Let's pretend the Pennsylvania Derby never happened"......not even close.
Once again....you're twisting context/changing my words to suit your means.

Newsflash Rex....CC's Lasix free placing in a Gr. 1 absolutely increases his value as a stallion.......you changed that quote also. :eek:

And No.....I didn't say you were delusional because the horse was mismanaged.....If you say the horse is mismanaged,that's your opinion.
You have delusional disorder because........I don't have enough time to make the list.

BTW :Have I ever made one excuse for this horse when he got beat ?
And when CC got beat did I ever say the horse that beat him wasn't best ?
The answer to both questions is No.
I never once in any thread made any excuses for CC.
So don't say I ever made excuses for CC.....that's a lie.
I make my points on CC by producing factual statistics/opinions.

You can voice your opinion on CC and his connections anyway you so choose,this is a horse racing message board....that's what you're supposed to do.
But if you want to pull up my posts......don't think I'm going sit here and let you run pompous through them and spin em off as something they aren't.
I'm through with you on this subject.

I'm not going to spend anymore time reading thru your posts. I'll just say that I'm delusional and live the rest of my life accepting it. You win.

If you can't take a little grandstanding and sarcasm you're in the wrong place.

So yes "crown him bro"

[biggestal99]

I'll take the position that by the time they pay for the travel, boarding, training and jockey fees for this 4 month long trip they won't have made a dime from it.



The connections can live off the 2 large they made at meydan, i think that covers a lot of cc,s expenses.

Unless you think it costs 2 large for all of the above mentioned expenses.

Allan

[horses4courses]

Guess hes doing ok..

Yesterday, too.

ShermanRacingStables retweeted
Britney Eurton ‏@BritneyEurton 22h22 hours ago
It's an Arty party! @blugrasschatter @AlexisCGarske

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CByS4YZUEAAQrsi.jpg

[nearco]

Oh dear.... https://www.change.org/p/california-chrome-bring-chrome-home

[Some_One]

Oh dear.... https://www.change.org/p/california-chrome-bring-chrome-home

Modern day internet petitions like this remind of the quote 'it's better to keep your mouth shut and look like a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt'.

[Mystic]

Oh dear.... https://www.change.org/p/california-chrome-bring-chrome-home

Dumb Ass Petitioners

[nijinski]

Oh dear.... https://www.change.org/p/california-chrome-bring-chrome-home

Add this to a comment I read at DRF . the poster is now going to lose her
will to live since CC was sent abroad . :

[biggestal99]

Add this to a comment I read at DRF . the poster is now going to lose her
will to live since CC was sent abroad . :

She'd already be dead if she were a fan of ouija board :-)

Allan

[Redboard]

Oh dear.... https://www.change.org/p/california-chrome-bring-chrome-home

Maybe we should hold a candlelight vigil until CC is back home on US soil.

[nijinski]

I believe Chrome is still in quarantine with Mirza for a short time more
since their trip from Dubai .

In the mean time there are some photos that popped up on this
site lol



https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Coburns-of-California-Chrome/835957533118488

[nijinski]

Full brother to Chrome , born just yesterday . So Martin and Coburn now
have his two of his full siblings . Congrats to them !

Foal has a full blaze too .

[horses4courses]

Seems to be doing fine

http://www.raeguest.com/images/2015hit/california%20chrome%20eating%20small.jpg


http://www.raeguest.com/8-news/251-california-chrome-weekly-update-week-2

[nijinski]

Seems to be doing fine

http://www.raeguest.com/images/2015hit/california%20chrome%20eating%20small.jpg


http://www.raeguest.com/8-news/251-california-chrome-weekly-update-week-2

He does look good and I think Guest is liking the added attention too .

[horses4courses]

He does look good and I think Guest is liking the added attention too .

I agree.
Rae Guest is not a high profile trainer over there.
15% win rate with a fairly small number of runners.
He averages 150-200 races per year, and has only won
over 200K sterling in purses twice. That was in 1997 and 2008.

Tough way to earn a living.
He must be enjoying this added exposure.

[horses4courses]

Warren Eves retweeted
Thoroughbred Info ‏@ThorobredInfo 8h8 hours ago
#CaliforniaChrome took his first mounted tour of the English countryside today. Photo courtesy @CoburnsofChrome.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCk6-6yWAAEOs9t.jpg

[Some_One]

I agree.
Rae Guest is not a high profile trainer over there.
15% win rate with a fairly small number of runners.
He averages 150-200 races per year, and has only won
over 200K sterling in purses twice. That was in 1997 and 2008.

Tough way to earn a living.
He must be enjoying this added exposure.

http://www.racingandsports.com.au/trainer/rae-guest-15243

[horses4courses]

http://www.racingandsports.com.au/trainer/rae-guest-15243

Racing Post's stats are a bit different.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/trainer_home.sd?trainer_id=3609#topTrainerTabs=tra iner_stats_summary_form&bottomTrainerTabs=trainer_big_race_wins

[horses4courses]

Video clip of Chrome's first day being ridden there, which was on Tuesday.
He looks a bit bored to me, but in good health.

43SkujR6eoM&feature=youtu.be

[nijinski]

Thanks H4C , can't wait to see him when he gets started on the grass
over there .

[Tall One]

Watch his ears. Colt was just taking it all in. Good seeing them ease Chrome back into things, acclimate..and you can tell his handlers has a lot of respect for the US runner.

Thanks for posting this, H4C... :ThmbUp:

[biggestal99]

Next up a straight mile at Newbury in the lockinge in a months time Left to right just like home.
G1 and a nice purse. Will be interesting

Allan

[horses4courses]

Next up a straight mile at Newbury in the lockinge in a months time Left to right just like home.
G1 and a nice purse. Will be interesting

Allan

The big difference between Newbury and a US track
is a pretty stiff uphill finish.

They have that on quite a few tracks there.
The going gets toughest at the end of the race.

[nijinski]

I caught a photo of him tacked up and wearing a figure eight noseband .
Don't recall seeing him in one before .
It's interesting to see what changes are being made heading up to hos
English debut .

[Tall One]

He'll carry more weight over there, right? Do they work the horses over the race course, or are they more on site works?

[horses4courses]

He'll carry more weight over there, right? Do they work the horses over the race course, or are they more on site works?

I figure he will carry a minimum of 126 lbs.
Probably more.
He will be at level weights with most other competitors, though.

Newmarket is a vast expanse of fairly flat galloping countryside.
Exercise workouts are conducted in certain areas, probably
depending on the stable's location.

To my knowledge, they don't conduct works on the race track itself.

[Tall One]

I figure he will carry a minimum of 126 lbs.
Probably more.
He will be at level weights with most other competitors, though.

Newmarket is a vast expanse of fairly flat galloping countryside.
Exercise workouts are conducted in certain areas, probably
depending on the stable's location.

To my knowledge, they don't conduct works on the race track itself.


That's a whole new game over there for me and thanks for the added explanation, H4C! I just like the fact they're giving our horse all the respect he deserves, imo.


"Good lad, good lad" :ThmbUp:

[cj]

Art Sherman says goal after Ascot is the Arlington Million. Are these people in the Twilight Zone?

[PaceAdvantage]

They are like a drowning man (losing horse) thrashing about for a life preserver (win).

Let's be real. Six starts since the Preakness. One win. Against tiny field of 3yo Cali. grass runners at the end of the year...'nuff said.

[horses4courses]

Art Sherman says goal after Ascot is the Arlington Million. Are these people in the Twilight Zone?

Art just looks like he's having fun. Great guy :ThmbUp:

I guess they figure everything will be strawberries and cream at Ascot.
That's a pretty big assumption.

I'd say that they could have the Pacific Classic as a realistic goal.
Now, if they only hadn't had that bust up with the Del Mar people. :eek:

It's all one big adventure for the Chrome Crew..... ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Art Sherman says goal after Ascot is the Arlington Million. Are these people in the Twilight Zone?

The arrogance of the two owners is beyond belief. They still believe the breeding of CC was pure genius, not luck. Sherman didn't come up with the NewMkt idea, and I doubt he's behind this move.

[nijinski]

Racing post reported he will not run in the Lockinge in May .
The Dubai trip took a lot out of him :eek: .
He'll train up to the POW , Ascot June 17 .

The Coburn /Chrome fb page reporting that A Sherman and Raul
are visiting him this weekend . That's an interesting , sudden move .

[horses4courses]

Racing post reported he will not run in the Lockinge in May .
The Dubai trip took a lot out of him :eek: .
He'll train up to the POW , Ascot June 17 .

The Coburn /Chrome fb page reporting that A Sherman and Raul
are visiting him this weekend . That's an interesting , sudden move .

Yes, that's right.
I was interested to hear Art's reaction to this.
He was being interviewed by Simon Bray and Scott Hazelton this morning
and he seemed to think it's a wise move.

He felt that the horse lost some weight after his DWC efforts,
and some extra time off should work in his favor.

[nijinski]

Yes, that's right.
I was interested to hear Art's reaction to this.
He was being interviewed by Simon Bray and Scott Hazelton this morning
and he seemed to think it's a wise move.

He felt that the horse lost some weight after his DWC efforts,
and some extra time off should work in his favor.

A few horses came back unscathed after the desert race but over
the years others needed a longer recovery . Hopefully the visit from
Sherman and Raul will cheer him up

I'm still curious to the change to the figure 8 noseband I've seen in
photos . The only thing Art had on his nose was a nasal strip :) .
Something tells me Chrome is not taking to his bit right now or perhaps
Guest uses this on all his horses . It will be interesting to see Sherman's
observations if he really is flying out this weekend .

[forced89]

The arrogance of the two owners is beyond belief. They still believe the breeding of CC was pure genius, not luck. Sherman didn't come up with the NewMkt idea, and I doubt he's behind this move.

Looks like this move is likely a disaster in the making!

[letswastemoney]

Racing post reported he will not run in the Lockinge in May .
The Dubai trip took a lot out of him :eek: .
He'll train up to the POW , Ascot June 17 .

The Coburn /Chrome fb page reporting that A Sherman and Raul
are visiting him this weekend . That's an interesting , sudden move .The Lockinge was never a lock for them to enter, and Alan was always scheduled to visit early regardless.

Not really sudden moves on either part.

[letswastemoney]

Looks like this move is likely a disaster in the making!If you think only winning matters. If he finishes in midpack, is that a disaster? No one will think so for the other horses that lose.

[ArlJim78]

These people are kooky but you can't claim that the horse has been spotted incorrectly or been ducking anyone. Or that he's done nothing since the Preakness. I have no idea why they are attempting Royal Ascot and or even thinking about the Million, but how are those not interesting propositions? Aren't people always clamoring for owners to take more risks, travel, try other surfaces, take on all comers, etc? The knock on Chrome last year pre-derby was that he never raced outside of California, now that he's on a world tour the knock is "what are they thinking?"
Their plans sound odd to me, I don't think he's cut out for top euro turf competition, but I applaud them for thinking big and being daring. They'll never have another chance to do this so why not?

For years Wayne Lukas has raced horses over their heads, where they don't belong, with a dismal win record to show for it, but he's a legend so nobody can question it.

[Cholly]

These people are kooky but you can't claim that the horse has been spotted incorrectly or been ducking anyone. Or that he's done nothing since the Preakness. I have no idea why they are attempting Royal Ascot and or even thinking about the Million, but how are those not interesting propositions? Aren't people always clamoring for owners to take more risks, travel, try other surfaces, take on all comers, etc? The knock on Chrome last year pre-derby was that he never raced outside of California, now that he's on a world tour the knock is "what are they thinking?"
Their plans sound odd to me, I don't think he's cut out for top euro turf competition, but I applaud them for thinking big and being daring. They'll never have another chance to do this so why not?

For years Wayne Lukas has raced horses over their heads, where they don't belong, with a dismal win record to show for it, but he's a legend so nobody can question it.
What AJ7 says. :ThmbUp:

[castaway01]

These people are kooky but you can't claim that the horse has been spotted incorrectly or been ducking anyone. Or that he's done nothing since the Preakness. I have no idea why they are attempting Royal Ascot and or even thinking about the Million, but how are those not interesting propositions? Aren't people always clamoring for owners to take more risks, travel, try other surfaces, take on all comers, etc? The knock on Chrome last year pre-derby was that he never raced outside of California, now that he's on a world tour the knock is "what are they thinking?"
Their plans sound odd to me, I don't think he's cut out for top euro turf competition, but I applaud them for thinking big and being daring. They'll never have another chance to do this so why not?

For years Wayne Lukas has raced horses over their heads, where they don't belong, with a dismal win record to show for it, but he's a legend so nobody can question it.

It's one thing to take on all comers and another to waste a horse's few remaining starts taking on bizarre challenges no one has ever heard of. Why not give people in this country a chance to see the horse run? Why go overseas to nearly certain defeat when there are plenty of turf races in the U.S. he could have run in? He's running in races where he has plenty of excuses if he loses, which seems a way to save whatever reputation his owners believe he has. I will grant you that it's different, but there's a fine line between "different" and "nonsensical". If Chrome was going to run 15 times this year, sure, but he's not.

Also, the difference between this and D. Wayne running horses in strange spots is that Wayne sometimes won those races he wasn't "supposed" to be in.

[castaway01]

A few horses came back unscathed after the desert race but over
the years others needed a longer recovery . Hopefully the visit from
Sherman and Raul will cheer him up

I'm still curious to the change to the figure 8 noseband I've seen in
photos . The only thing Art had on his nose was a nasal strip :) .
Something tells me Chrome is not taking to his bit right now or perhaps
Guest uses this on all his horses . It will be interesting to see Sherman's
observations if he really is flying out this weekend .

When you see this delay and look at the owners' bizarre plan, I wonder if we'll see the horse race again in this country at all. A drubbing at Ascot seems like a good excuse to retire the horse without hurting his "reputation", at least in the eyes of his crackpot owners.

[PaceAdvantage]

For years Wayne Lukas has raced horses over their heads, where they don't belong, with a dismal win record to show for it, but he's a legend so nobody can question it.Yeah...nobody EVER questions DWL...are you sure you're a member of this message board? :lol:

[GaryG]

When you see this delay and look at the owners' bizarre plan, I wonder if we'll see the horse race again in this country at all. A drubbing at Ascot seems like a good excuse to retire the horse without hurting his "reputation", at least in the eyes of his crackpot owners.I never thought of that, but it is certainly possible. I thought he would be on the next plane home after Shared Belief was injured.

[castaway01]

I never thought of that, but it is certainly possible. I thought he would be on the next plane home after Shared Belief was injured.

I should be clear that I don't think this is a definite plan of theirs, but just that knowing he now won't race until June, I wonder if we'll see him race here again. If he runs poorly at Royal Ascot, does he really come back for a prep race and then the Breeders Cup? His owners aren't showing much interest in that direction. And that's a shame, because Chrome is a popular horse, and a three or four race campaign in this country would have been nice for wherever they decided to run.

[ArlJim78]

Yeah...nobody EVER questions DWL...are you sure you're a member of this message board? :lol:
my point wasn't that Lukas is never questioned on here, my point is that when Lukas is questioned for how he places the numerous high dollar stock he's given every year he's defended like he's a God by the same people who want to dump on the CC connections for how they handle their one horse.

If the standard is only to look at wins let's review Mr. Z who hasn't won since his maiden breaker yet has run in 11 straight stakes. nuff said.

[PaceAdvantage]

I have Mr. Z as a contender...a distant contender, but one nonetheless. And it has nothing to do with Lukas. Probably has everything to do with my handicapping ability (or lack thereof...lol)

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=letswastemoney]The Lockinge was never a lock for them to enter, and Alan was always scheduled to visit early regardless.

Not really sudden moves on either part.[/QUOTE

Going to see him on Derby weekend , I guess big anniversary as
well.

[nijinski]

Dettori worked Chrome this am


https://youtu.be/eIhVuGOjrkE

[whodoyoulike]

Thanks for the link.

Does he look like he has lost weight?

Not in a bad way because he looks good just not as muscular or heavy as I've seen him in other videos.

[nijinski]

Thanks for the link.

Does he look like he has lost weight?

Not in a bad way because he looks good just not as muscular or heavy as I've seen him in other videos.

I believe he did after Dubai but in some recent photos he looked pretty
fit .

[nijinski]

Sensing a possible trainer change on Chrome's return if emotions don't
calm down .

Alan Sherman in The Guardian .

In the buttoned-up world of British Flat racing, it would be rare to hear a trainer publicly differing from an owner’s opinion but Sherman Jr was openly scornful about the nasal strips which California Chrome has been wearing in his races, apparently at the insistence of his owners. Those strips are not allowed in Britain but, asked if that concerned him, Sherman Jr replied: “To me, it’s just a piece of duct tape.”

He's upset about the whole Ascot bid for Chrome .

[nijinski]

William Buick will ride Chrome in the POW .

[horses4courses]

William Buick will ride Chrome in the POW .

Good choice. :ThmbUp:
He's one of the best young riders in Europe.
Winning at close to 21% this year.
He rode Debussy for John Gosden to win the Arlington Million in 2010.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/profiles/jockey/75701/w-buick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buick

[nijinski]

Good choice. :ThmbUp:
He's one of the best young riders in Europe.
Winning at close to 21% this year.
He rode Debussy for John Gosden to win the Arlington Million in 2010.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/profiles/jockey/75701/w-buick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buick

Yes I was happy to read he took the mount .Nice percentage good luck to them !

[chenoa]

William Buick will ride Chrome in the POW .

Think Buick is a great choice. :ThmbUp:

[handyman1968]

Jockey won't matter. From what I am reading CC doesn't even look 50% of his peak. Would be a miracle if he finishes the race at all.

[biggestal99]

Jockey won't matter. From what I am reading CC doesn't even look 50% of his peak. Would be a miracle if he finishes the race at all.

A top UK jockey like Buick would not take the mount on a no-hoper.

Here's an easy prediction; CC will finish in the top half of the field

Allan

[biggestal99]

Winning at close to 21% this year.


Buick is winning at 23% on older, more experienced horse (4+ years old)
with a positive ROI in 2015

Allan

[horses4courses]

From what I am reading CC doesn't even look 50% of his peak.

Haven't seen anything like that myself....where did you read it?

[chenoa]

Haven't seen anything like that myself....where did you read it?

Guessing he must have the direct line to Alan Sherman!!!! :D

[Redboard]

Jockey won't matter. From what I am reading CC doesn't even look 50% of his peak. Would be a miracle if he finishes the race at all.

I expect the connections to call off the whole thing and come up with a phantom injury and bring him home. In which case I'll expect Turning For Home to still get paid.

[horses4courses]

Why must everything be a conspiracy?

If they don't want to run the horse there, they should just say so.

Chrome is currently a 10-1 chance with UK books for the POW.
Wide open betting race, with Dermot Weld's Free Eagle favorite @ 7-2.

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/flat/prince-of-wales-stakes/winner

[classhandicapper]

Sensing a possible trainer change on Chrome's return if emotions don't
calm down .

He's upset about the whole Ascot bid for Chrome .

IMO, Sherman is the only member of the team that understands the game and is thinking clearly.

The "idea" of proving him on turf makes some economic sense, but choosing Ascot to do it is very likely to lead to a loss (perhaps embarrassing). Had they just brought him home and freshened him up they could run him in races where he belonged and tried something like the Arlington Million as an experiment if they were dead set on trying turf again. It will be an easier spot, there would be less shipping, and there will still probably be an international horse or two in the field they could point to if he ran well.

Personally, I don't care what these guys do, but as a fan I care about the horse. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but this plan seems idiotic to me in terms of the horse's reputation, ability to earn money, and for the sport. Let's just hope they don't ruin him so badly we don't get to see Chrome vs. Pharoah in the Classic.

[PaceAdvantage]

The "idea" of proving him on turf makes some economic sense, but choosing Ascot to do it is very likely to lead to a loss (perhaps embarrassing).Well what do you want? In their minds, he's already the best turf horse in the USA...after all, he beat a bunch (5?) of 3yo California turf horses last December...'nuff said...the next logical step is to tackle the world after you conquer the US... :lol:

[classhandicapper]

Well what do you want? In their minds, he's already the best turf horse in the USA...after all, he beat a bunch (5?) of 3yo California turf horses last December...'nuff said...the next logical step is to tackle the world after you conquer the US... :lol:

I have bad opinions from time to time, but they are delusional. :lol:

[biggestal99]

Why must everything be a conspiracy?

If they don't want to run the horse there, they should just say so.

Chrome is currently a 10-1 chance with UK books for the POW.
Wide open betting race, with Dermot Weld's Free Eagle favorite @ 7-2.

http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/flat/prince-of-wales-stakes/winner

CC is 12-1 on the betting exchanges

Thats about the right price for him

Allan

[chadk66]

the owners are obviously trying to broaden their stud market. they're taking a shot. lord knows these owners love to take shots. I do respect their willingness to take a shot with the horse. It's not like they're leading some allowance horse with conditions over there to take a shot with.

[classhandicapper]

the owners are obviously trying to broaden their stud market. they're taking a shot. lord knows these owners love to take shots. I do respect their willingness to take a shot with the horse. It's not like they're leading some allowance horse with conditions over there to take a shot with.

I agree on the goal. That much is obvious. IMO, taking a shot is running in the Arlington Million even though there are dirt alternatives. This is very likely to be a wasted race by a horse that is not proven to be anywhere near as good on turf as dirt that is probably not as good on dirt as some of these horses are on turf.

[burnsy]

the owners are obviously trying to broaden their stud market. they're taking a shot. lord knows these owners love to take shots. I do respect their willingness to take a shot with the horse. It's not like they're leading some allowance horse with conditions over there to take a shot with.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but seriously, versus what's going to be entered.......they are exactly doing what you say they aren't. He's allowance material against these until he can hit the board in a race like this. Meanwhile, he's a pretty good dirt horse that could make real waves here if he were to beat some of the other dirt stars. I think its a bad choice, there's a real opening here if he campaigns on dirt and comes up big at the end. Genius or idiotic we will see, but this horse most likely would have a brighter year here......and maybe even a spectacular one. Just a prediction but this probably won't be a great "jaunt' for this horse. They must really see something in his grass form.

[castaway01]

I'd still argue, like I did a while back, that if the owners put thought into it, it was "We go over there and win, it's great for his stud fee; if we lose it's no mark against him." A shame they didn't consider that it would have been nice to have him do it in this country and give the fans here to see him face some of the top older horses, but oh well. I'd applaud "taking a shot" more if it was a logical shot or a shot that meant anything. Instead it's a race overseas that only the diehards like those on this board will take note of.