Latest on PVal

[JimG]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/55677.html

[Buddha]

so he gets a 4 month suspension, 3 months already served, still gets to exercise in the mornings......where is the punishment? The 100 hours of community service??? Also, not to mention he has 2 more weeks before he has to take that last month of suspension. Very lenient on the CHRB's part

[shanta]

agree with Buddha. barely a slap on the wrist. Not good at all for HIM or the game.
Richie

[PaceAdvantage]

What's the big deal? The board giveth, and the board taketh away. They set the rules, ultimately. If they want to change the rules, it's their right.

Let's hypothetically say PVal WAS on drugs during the time he went missing. If he (hypothetically) was off the wagon, then it is a GOOD thing he went missing. It's a good thing he has the presence of mind not to do something utterly insane such as riding under the influence. (This is ALL HYPOTHETICAL THINKING OUT LOUD, OF COURSE)

When you get right down to it, the only thing PVal did wrong was he failed to piss in a cup. For this, you're going to crucify him?

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Pat Valenzuela is an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. The only way he can get work is if TRAINERS decide to put him up on their horses. The OWNERS of these FRAGILE, MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENTS obviously WANT PAT VALENZUELA IN CHARGE OF THEIR BABIES for those couple of minutes he is their jockey. And they all KNOW FULL WELL his history with drug abuse.

If that doesn't speak volumes as to whether or not he should be allowed to continue riding, I don't know what does.

[delayjf]

Given his success since his return, I can see why the other riders don't want him back. Seriously, he can ride with the best.

[brdman12]

Good points all around. But, well...its just that he's set up to fail again. Soon.

[Hosshead]

Pat V. could probably snort the entire first base line at Dodger Stadium..... and still win.
But I don't think his excellent jockey skill is the point !

[kenwoodallpromos]

Maybe his horses get a contact high.

[JimG]

No doubt Pat got a break here. Now for the kicker...according to TVG PatV is planning to appeal the suspension in early June so that he can ride Rock Hard Ten in the Belmont.

That takes a lot of nerve on his part, in my opinion.

Jim

[maxwell]

The thing that bugs me about PaVal is the way he uses the system to his advantage. He should be man enough to admit he screwed up and accept his punishment .

You would think the Board should be smart enough to correct the the loopholes that allow these riders to make them look like the clowns that they must be. :(

[CryingForTheHorses]

Its vey easy to knock another man!!. PVal is the nicest man,fighting these demons to stay alive.Met him at gulfstream at my barn, Gave me a business card sayin Tom put me on a f--- winner, then he signed it, Also met him again at Woodbine a couple of years later.Still knew who I was.This is a very sharp guy,Tryng like hell to get the monkey off his back. I dont think the other jocks dislike him..Im sure they are jealous cause he the best of the best!!. This man can outride the best of them, I have saw him win many times. Seems the eastern horseman had a hard time naming him on horses,couldnt buy a mount at Gulfstream the winter of 96,went back to Cali and dissapeared for a month,came back and rode his way to the top. You have to give the man credit when due.We all have some sort of vice,Least he is not a murderer or some creep trying to drug other people, If he is on drugs at all!!.Pval will always be a great rider with a storied past, The media loves this guy!!..Before all of you throw him in the garbage can,Think of what he is eally going through.

[shanta]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Its vey easy to knock another man!!. PVal is the nicest man,fighting these demons to stay alive.Met him at gulfstream at my barn, Gave me a business card sayin Tom put me on a f--- winner, then he signed it, Also met him again at Woodbine a couple of years later.Still knew who I was.This is a very sharp guy,Tryng like hell to get the monkey off his back. I dont think the other jocks dislike him..Im sure they are jealous cause he the best of the best!!. This man can outride the best of them, I have saw him win many times. Seems the eastern horseman had a hard time naming him on horses,couldnt buy a mount at Gulfstream the winter of 96,went back to Cali and dissapeared for a month,came back and rode his way to the top. You have to give the man credit when due.We all have some sort of vice,Least he is not a murderer or some creep trying to drug other people, If he is on drugs at all!!.Pval will always be a great rider with a storied past, The media loves this guy!!..Before all of you throw him in the garbage can,Think of what he is eally going through.

He might be a nice man but what the C.H.R.B. is doing is enabling him by letting him off so far with only a token slap. He signed a contract, broke it, and should have to suffer the consequences now. PERIOD.

And I do know where he is coming from believe me ok? As a recovering addict who was hooked for 20 years on the same S%$% he is I have been there and done that. You know what they did to me ?? threw my ass in a jail cell for a year. talk about a reality check. all that enabling crap ended and it was either stop or die. Same thing with Pat V only he has more money than I do.
All this stuff I read about people going to bat for him is a joke. They don't care about the man they are looking out for themselves. They just want him to ride cause he has such raw talent. As far as REALLY CARING about the man himself GIVE ME A BREAK.

Richie Pizzicara

[kenwoodallpromos]

I only know enough about P.Val to joke around; Tom must know him a little personally. Maxwell- If you do not want P, to have an appeal, you should write to the CA board. I think He has as much right to appeal and use the rules to his advantage as any other jock or these busted trainers who appeal then suspended keep right on racinf with the ass. trainer. P. Val is not a big enough of a star to use an assistant jockey to still ride his mounts while suspended.

[Tom]

Nothing personal against P Val. I wish him well and hope he is able to finally beat the demons. The issue is not P Val. It is, to me, simply, rules are rules. There is a major difference between giving a guy a chance and giving him a pass.
I would think by now, the risk of not being able to ride again has long left P Val's list of incentives to beat the problem.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Om my Shanta...JAIL..Sounds to me like you are bitter!! Bitter that YOU made the wrong choices!!.Money has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong!! YOU and PVAL have THAT in common. Dont be bitter for a man with success!!. P Val was a great rider before he got hooked on this crap, Has taken the family and lives of many people.Maybe the system didnt help you because of the way your life went (I dont know ).For the guy that said PVal could snort the entire first base line...SHAME on you!!. Laughing at a person who YOU pay to go watch.or pay for the newspaper that the story is in.What if someone in your family had this problem.The world is full of bitter people who have made the wrong choices in their lives.What really gets me is how bitter people with this problem are with the people that have had the same problem and are successfull. It ll boils down to the choices you have made.For the guy that said how he BEATS the system..The system was placed there so ANYONE that is involved in horses can use it,He doesnt beat it..He is just smart enough to now what to do. As for he has more money..Hell MONEY didnt help Martha Stewart.

[Lance]

It sounds to me as if Shanta is extremely compassionate, and if he is the Rich/Art V (Seinfeld reference?) who made a post on this subject on a different board a couple months ago, I want to thank him for one of the best posts I have ever read.

[JustRalph]

I think I am with Tom on this one. I like what Mike Wellman said on TVG..........."find me another jock who has been suspended 9 times for the most serious infractions, and is still riding"

Interesting point. I think that PVAL has been treated differently than others.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, I would think "the most serious infractions" as they pertain to jockeys, would be one of the following two:

1) Deliberately riding in a careless and wreckless manner that causes harm and/or injury to either your fellow jockey, your horse, or another horse in the race

or

2) Affecting the outcome of a race in such a way that is detrimental to the betting public, either by outright race fixing, or some other less serious means (not riding your mount out to the wire, etc).

I don't believe Pat Valenzuela has ever been guilty of any of these two infractions, which I believe are the two most serious offenses a jockey can commit.

Now, being that I am extry-dense tonight, feel free to correct me where I might be wrong. I also am a bit foggy on the early suspensions of Mr. Valenzuela, so if anyone could fill me in, or give a timeline of his suspensions, I'd be grateful.

[cj]

Pat has been suspended many more times than other jockeys in SoCal for careless riding. I don't know where you can find the stats, but I would bet it is at least twice as often as the next rider.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Pat has been suspended many more times than other jockeys in SoCal for careless riding. I don't know where you can find the stats, but I would bet it is at least twice as often as the next rider.

that is very true. i dont know exact numbers, but i remember hearing that last year he has something like 16 or 20 days, if not more that he had been appealing, and got it cut down to like 7 for careless riding. most others get days once, and wont get them the rest of the year.

[shanta]

Originally posted by Lance
It sounds to me as if Shanta is extremely compassionate, and if he is the Rich/Art V (Seinfeld reference?) who made a post on this subject on a different board a couple months ago, I want to thank him for one of the best posts I have ever read.

Lance that quote from the other board is not me just to clarify .
Richie

[shanta]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Om my Shanta...JAIL..Sounds to me like you are bitter!! Bitter that YOU made the wrong choices!!.Money has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong!! YOU and PVAL have THAT in common. Dont be bitter for a man with success!!. P Val was a great rider before he got hooked on this crap, Has taken the family and lives of many people.Maybe the system didnt help you because of the way your life went (I dont know ).For the guy that said PVal could snort the entire first base line...SHAME on you!!. Laughing at a person who YOU pay to go watch.or pay for the newspaper that the story is in.What if someone in your family had this problem.The world is full of bitter people who have made the wrong choices in their lives.What really gets me is how bitter people with this problem are with the people that have had the same problem and are successfull. It ll boils down to the choices you have made.For the guy that said how he BEATS the system..The system was placed there so ANYONE that is involved in horses can use it,He doesnt beat it..He is just smart enough to now what to do. As for he has more money..Hell MONEY didnt help Martha Stewart.

I AM upset with myself that I failed to get help for so many years.I do not think that money or because someone is in the limelight is the ONLY measure of success ( although today that is more and more becoming the standard i.m.o). I counsel young men and women 4 days a month who attend the same program I graduated from. Not having any kids of my own To develop really close relationships with a few of them to the point that they seek me out to help them is VERY SATISFYING TO ME. That's something money can never buy ok? Just waking up every day with a clear head is victory for some of us. long time coming too! Have a nice day.


Richie

[Bubbles]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Actually, I would think "the most serious infractions" as they pertain to jockeys, would be one of the following two:

1) Deliberately riding in a careless and wreckless manner that causes harm and/or injury to either your fellow jockey, your horse, or another horse in the race

or

2) Affecting the outcome of a race in such a way that is detrimental to the betting public, either by outright race fixing, or some other less serious means (not riding your mount out to the wire, etc).

That's a little ironic. Eddie Arcaro, one of the greatest jockeys of all time, and looked upon as an idol by many, is guilty of both, while PVal, a jockey whose life has been controversial to say the least, is not guilty of either. Arcaro was suspended for a year when he tried to harm another rider, and freely admitted that in Citation's loss to Saggy at three, that he did not ride his mount out, and nobody cared, save the stewards.

With PVal, anytime he takes a drink, cameras are on him, and paparazzi reporters are in the bushes. And when situations arise like the one at the beginning of this year, everyone's on his butt, saying he should never ride again.

I'm not saying PVal should get off scot-free at all whatsoever. I think his suspension should last until the Del Mar meet, and then, IF he has cleaned up his act and has the drug test results to prove it, he can be allowed to ride again, with strict testing. But irony's painful when it bites you in the rear end.

[sq764]

Mcshel, I was intrigued by your comment of "Dont be bitter for a man with success!!."

What is success? Winning thousands of races? Making millions then blowing it on drugs? Is that success? Not to me.

A success would be someone who got caught up in drugs, had the balls to admit he had a problem, then get help to fix it. Then stay clean.. That is a success to me.

So if you ask me, Richie (Shanta) is more of a success than Pval is in my mind..

[sq764]

PA, do you think a jockey hopped up on crack when riding a horse MAY be guilty of the following infraction? When you enter into a race on drugs, you voluntarily, put you, your horse and 9 other horses/jocks in potential danger..

"1) Deliberately riding in a careless and wreckless manner that causes harm and/or injury to either your fellow jockey, your horse, or another horse in the race"

[cj]

sq,

I'm no fan of the ruling, but PVal has NEVER been accused of riding while under the influence of anything.

[sq764]

CJ, you are a smart guy.. I wholeheartedly hope you don't believe he has never mounted a horse while under the influence.. If he has tested positive xxx amount of times, how many times has he been positive and not been tested? Probably take the above mentioned number and multiply it by 10

[cj]

Normally I would agree with you, but I really don't know. He gets tested so often, I think he just doesn't show up when he knows he is going to test positive. Surely, he is at least smart enough to know that if he got caught riding while on drugs it is over. He would never, ever ride again.

I'm not saying it has never happened, but it seems odd the jocks who do not want him to ride have never even "anonymously" accused him of this.

[sq764]

Well, I don't know him personally, so my statement was purely speculation..

However, I do know 3 drivers that come to mind at Dover Downs that are usually high when they drive. And they are tipped off to when they will be tested.. Kind of scary..

[JimG]

Originally posted by sq764
Well, I don't know him personally, so my statement was purely speculation..

However, I do know 3 drivers that come to mind at Dover Downs that are usually high when they drive. And they are tipped off to when they will be tested.. Kind of scary..

I would have to be high to have my legs spread and sitting so close to a horses A$$

Jim:D

[Tom]

Originally posted by JimG
I would have to be high to have my legs spread and sitting so close to a horses A$$

Jim:D

Kind of like watchin a movie in a multi-plex, eh?

[kenwoodallpromos]

You talking about harness drivers or Whitneyt Houston?

[CryingForTheHorses]

SHANTA (Richie)
5 gold stars for you Richie.Pulling yourself out of your problems and then helping others.Im sure its been a long battle. Yes money isnt a measure of a mans success,His friends,how he conducts business,his family say a lot for him.Im sure you are a outstanding guy and never meant any malice toward you.Some of the subjects on these posts may have me speaking my mind.Horseracing is my true love next to my wife and The Toronto Maple Leafs.Keep true to yourself and help our children.

[freeneasy]

subsequently during the time that followed i bounced around from job to job until i came to develope a successful little bussiness of my own. the one little difference is that when i and after i beat the drug habit i never went back to it again, ever. and i can tell you about laying up in bed, wanting to get high so bad that your toes literally curl up into a fist but i got thru it and the next day i was a little better and a little stronger for it.
no one reached out to give me any kind of support and if i wanted to clean up, get straight and have some kind of happiness with what was left of my life then basically i was on my own but thats the way it was.
now days you got every kind of support under the sun and if pat cant find something to help him stay clean with all the support opportunities there are to take advantage of then all that means is he aint serious and he's still at the point where he has no intention to quit abusing drugs. iow, if there werent these restrictions put on him that will cause him to lose his carreer if he gets caught again, then the man would be out there getting as high as a bird.
drug addiction is a difficult and dishearting matter of reality to battle your way thru and overcome. nobody said trying to kick a longtime drug habit was easy.
a person doesnt realize the hell there is to pay the day they make up their mind and quit.
the temptations, the physical and mental withdrawals. the cravings, the old urges that tear away at you and the inalbility to control them when they strike. the depressiveness and downspins. being isolateted from the one thing that your whole life depended upon. the radical mood swings that go back and forth from hope to hopelesness to hope to hopelessness and who knows where you are in between. days when it seems like you cant make it anymore and your all out of fight cause you just aint gots no more fights ta gives. and all the so ons and so ons you can think of.
but thats no excuse, all these aforementioned things are no excuse for when a person reverts back to their old habits. and its less of an excuse and becomes even more less of an excuse any time and every time anyone has a drug related relaspe.
sure,
every man needs a measure of help and drug addicts are no different and its exspected that some are going to fail, some are going to fail a few times and some are going to fail more then a few times before they make it, but the fact will always remain that whatever the reason it is for failing to stay drug free is still no excuse.
but heres the thing and that is this. when pat came in he tested negative for drugs in his system and granted, by not making any attempt to contact the board leaves to much suspicion as to where he was and what he was doing and granted there was well enough time from his absense to his appearence for him to to have cleansed his system from any traces of drugs. therefore it must be assumed that pat v is innocent and he must be found that way. no breaking of terms can be proven there.
but did he violate other terms of his agreement with the chrb? he did. and did he have an absolute legitimate excuse for the breaking of those terms considering the regulations that he is required to abide by? he didnt. and whats he get? as far as iam concerned pat v. got breakfast in bed..... again. and if he doesnt get his priorities right it'll be breakfast in jail with no excuse.

side note
if pat wanted to he could continue to get away with his drug abuse for almost as long as he wants to, if he wanted to. and one way to do this is to simply retire, take a vacation, get stoned, when your through, clean up, come out of retirement, take a drug test to make everybody happy, and resume ricing. the chrb cant make you test for drugs when your down in cancoon. can they? and thats the way the drug addicted mind thinks. bla

[CryingForTheHorses]

What a wonderful story!! Very hard for you Im sure to tell us all about your ""old" life.Im very glad you have beat these demons and continue to do so.As much as I like Pat,Im hoping he doesnt become another Chris Antley.Comes a time in your life where you need to say WHOA!!.Im sure Pat has put his family thu turmoil.What is it about this drug that ruins so many people??. Thanks for your post. I enjoyed it:cool:

[Dancer's Image]

Valenzuela to appeal Tuesday
On Tuesday, Valenzuela will seek to get an injunction from a Los Angeles Superior Court that will enable him to ride Rock Hard Ten in the Belmont Stakes, his attorney Don Calabria said. Calabria is seeking the injunction to delay the start of a one-month suspension handed down May 18 by the California Horse Racing Board that was to begin Tuesday.
The CHRB actually suspended Valenzuela four months, but gave him three months' credit for time served.
"I got the decision, and I'm preparing the papers to appeal," Calabria said. "Patrick wants to appeal. We're going into court on Tuesday at 8:30. Going in Tuesday complicates things because Patrick wanted to ride on Friday at Belmont and they're taking entries on Tuesday for Friday."
David Hicks, the NYRA steward, said Valenzuela would be allowed to be named on horses for next Friday's card.
"We would allow him to be named on horses for the simple reason the wagering board licensed him the other day," Hicks said. "Until such time his suspension goes into effect we can't stop him from being named on horses."


...will the Los Angeles Superior Court have the balls to do the right thing and deny PVal the injunction? Yeah, fat chance...last thing I remember that court doing was setting OJ free.