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JustRalph
03-17-2015, 12:32 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/03/16/lesson-learned-from-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/?postshare=2391426534085263

Admitting to being taken in........

Just another reactionary lefty? ........of course

davew
03-17-2015, 01:30 AM
and the lt. gov. of MO feels DOJ is more racist than Ferguson

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/missouri-lt-gov-claims-the-justice-department-is-more-racist-than-ferguson/ar-AA9RjjF?ocid=iehp

DJofSD
03-17-2015, 08:44 AM
Cue the crickets.

Tom
03-17-2015, 08:57 AM
Once again, facts ruin a good story.

DJofSD
03-17-2015, 08:59 AM
Once again, facts ruin a good story.
Oh, but, we should understand them b/c they meant well.

FantasticDan
03-17-2015, 09:54 AM
Once again, facts ruin a good story.I don't get it.. a couple days you said this about the DoJ report:

"A biased, embarrassingly poor report at that."

..And now you're defending its findings? So when it fits the narrative that you prefer, the report is good.. but when it outlines the deep racial injustice in Ferguson, the report is garbage.. right?

"Hands up, don't shoot" was essentially squashed back in the fall when the Ferguson prosecutor detailed lack of witness credibility and forensic evidence. The DoJ backed up those findings. It's not a revelation.

Tom
03-17-2015, 10:31 AM
I am talking about the Grand Jury facts.
That Hands up don't shoot nonsense has been disproved long ago, except by
groups of people who want reality to conform to their own biases.

The DOJ hit piece on Ferguson is the BS one I referred to the other day.
That one did not clear the cop- he was already cleared.
DOJ did a report based on a bias and even then could not prove it.

The DoJ backed up those findings. It's not a revelation.


It is to many of the idiots still protesting in Ferguson. It was to the guy who shot those cops in NYC. A certain group of people are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree.

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 01:15 PM
Step one is to stop using cops as tax collectors

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21646252-step-one-stop-using-cops-tax-collectors-lessons-ferguson?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/lessonsfromferguson

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20150314_USP001_0.jpg

Tom
03-17-2015, 01:20 PM
Appropriate response when your city is under siege by animals.
Street vermin. Obama's possible kids.

Clubs and bullets are the only sensible reply to rioting and looting.

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 01:43 PM
Appropriate response when your city is under siege by animals.
Street vermin. Obama's possible kids.

Clubs and bullets are the only sensible reply to rioting and looting.

Ignoring the point being made, as usual.

Clocker
03-17-2015, 01:55 PM
Step one is to stop using cops as tax collectors

Have you any idea how many small towns in this country would be bankrupt were it not for revenue from traffic fines, court costs, etc.? You know how many of those have had citizen uprisings against the police?

Yes, it is a big problem and a perversion of justice. But there is no evidence that it was an immediate cause of the violence in Ferguson. It was a rationalization after the fact. It was gas on the fire.

Tom
03-17-2015, 02:01 PM
Ignoring the point being made, as usual.

You put the totally irrelevant cartoon in your post.
If it was supposed to be a serious post, you could have fooled me.

If all the people in Ferguson were like that thug who got his by walking inthe middle of the street, then I would continue to "tax" thier asses.

But isn't the REAL point here that the people there live like they do by choice?
They have the right to vote and elect their own leaders and refuse to get up off their arses and do so. People like that deserved to taken advantage of.

I would hand out even more tickets....the ignorant are ripe for the picking.

davew
03-17-2015, 02:06 PM
Ignoring the point being made, as usual.

I do not understand your point - you break the law and go to jail because no money for bail is a TAX?

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 02:10 PM
Have you any idea how many small towns in this country would be bankrupt were it not for revenue from traffic fines, court costs, etc.? You know how many of those have had citizen uprisings against the police?

Yes, it is a big problem and a perversion of justice. But there is no evidence that it was an immediate cause of the violence in Ferguson. It was a rationalization after the fact. It was gas on the fire.

When around 95% of those stopped by police are black - and stopped for the most trivial things -
you have to ask a few questions, don't you think?

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 02:16 PM
I do not understand your point - you break the law and go to jail because no money for bail is a TAX?

They are targeting blacks, while turning a blind eye to whitey.
Happens all the time in this country, not just in Ferguson.

Unless a Highway Patrol cop has to make his monthly quota,
you're going to get a warning - if you're white, and have nothing outstanding.
Not so with blacks and hispanics - at least to the same degree.

It's racial discrimination, and it targets lower income groups.

Tom
03-17-2015, 02:21 PM
When around 95% of those stopped by police are black - and stopped for the most trivial things -
you have to ask a few questions, don't you think?

Yes, like why don't you jerks vote for someone who represent you?
Those people 50 years ago crossed that bridge so you would be able to vote.
Are you too stupid to figure that out?

Tom
03-17-2015, 02:23 PM
They are targeting blacks, while turning a blind eye to whitey.
Happens all the time in this country, not just in Ferguson.

Unless a Highway Patrol cop has to make his monthly quota,
you're going to get a warning - if you're white, and have nothing outstanding.
Not so with blacks and hispanics - at least to the same degree.

Data to back that up?

Clocker
03-17-2015, 02:32 PM
When around 95% of those stopped by police are black - and stopped for the most trivial things -
you have to ask a few questions, don't you think?

You don't have to ask a few questions if you understand the demographics of Ferguson and the national demographics of drivers stopped by police.

The city is 67% black. The black population is younger, poorer, and more transitory than the whites. People matching that demographic are much more likely to be stopped nationally, and more likely with cause.

The claim by some of police treatment of "driving while black" is also a national issue. I suggest you read the following take on the issue by a black man, who points out that the problem is not always caused by the cops. This is not to say that there isn't a problem here, but it is to say that the issue is not black and white.

In a world where young blacks, especially, are bombarded with claims that they are being unfairly targeted by police, and where a general attitude of belligerence is being promoted literally in word and song, it is hard not to wonder whether some people's responses to policemen do not have something to do with the policemen's responses to them.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/10/driving_while_black.html

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 02:43 PM
Data to back that up?

Not much data out there on this - now, how could that be???

Do you drive much at night, Tom?
Safe to say that, if you were black, your nighttime journeys would often be longer.

Here's a study from 2003 - I doubt much has changed.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-09172003-020817/unrestricted/RacialProfiling.pdf

davew
03-17-2015, 03:18 PM
They are targeting blacks, while turning a blind eye to whitey.
Happens all the time in this country, not just in Ferguson.

Unless a Highway Patrol cop has to make his monthly quota,
you're going to get a warning - if you're white, and have nothing outstanding.
Not so with blacks and hispanics - at least to the same degree.

It's racial discrimination, and it targets lower income groups.

Is whitey a racist term? I am not familiar with it.

Tom
03-17-2015, 03:44 PM
"whitey" is a LIP term.

davew
03-17-2015, 04:04 PM
Not much data out there on this - now, how could that be???

Do you drive much at night, Tom?
Safe to say that, if you were black, your nighttime journeys would often be longer.

Here's a study from 2003 - I doubt much has changed.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-09172003-020817/unrestricted/RacialProfiling.pdf


I strongly suspect there was bias in sampling because I find it very hard to believe 90% of drivers have never been pulled over for anything in their life.

JustRalph
03-17-2015, 04:26 PM
H4C is right about using police as tax collectors. But it's the system that was setup by lawyers and judges. Not cops.

The cops are just the "process" they didn't setup the system.

I used to arrest the same people year after year for child support warrants, traffic tickets etc. all because of outstanding fines.

The contacts were almost always traffic crashes, or domestic violence events where one party has warrants. The cops have very little choice. Blaming the cops is wrong.

PaceAdvantage
03-17-2015, 04:50 PM
It's racial discrimination, and it targets lower income groups.You mean like cigarettes, alcohol, slot machines at the local racino, etc.?

That kind of thing?

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 05:03 PM
H4C is right about using police as tax collectors. But it's the system that was setup by lawyers and judges. Not cops.

The cops are just the "process" they didn't setup the system.

I used to arrest the same people year after year for child support warrants, traffic tickets etc. all because of outstanding fines.

The contacts were almost always traffic crashes, or domestic violence events where one party has warrants. The cops have very little choice. Blaming the cops is wrong.

You're right when it comes to those situations.
They're just doing their job there.

It's where some get the motivation, or lack thereof, for random traffic
stops that intrigues me. Most do a great job, are at risk every day,
and not all towns are like Ferguson.

More attention needs to be paid to places that are, though.

JustRalph
03-17-2015, 05:13 PM
You mean like cigarettes, alcohol, slot machines at the local racino, etc.?

That kind of thing?

Don't forget State Lottery

Clocker
03-17-2015, 07:30 PM
Don't forget State Lottery

Libs believe that the end justifies the means. They impute the same motives to everyone else, so anything that ends up hurting blacks must have been designed to do that.

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 07:35 PM
Libs believe that the end justifies the means. They impute the same motives to everyone else, so anything that ends up hurting blacks must have been designed to do that.

It's unfortunate, but true.

Lower income groups spend proportionately
more than others on the lottery.
Same can be said for tobacco and alcohol.

It sucks to be poor.

boxcar
03-17-2015, 07:35 PM
Ignoring the point being made, as usual.

Would that be the one on top of your head? :rolleyes:

boxcar
03-17-2015, 07:37 PM
It's unfortunate, but true.

Lower income groups spend proportionately
more than others on the lottery.
Same can be said for tobacco and alcohol.

It sucks to be poor.

And all-loving, compassionate, we're-here-to-help governments don't know this?

horses4courses
03-17-2015, 07:37 PM
Would that be the one on top of your head? :rolleyes:

Wow.
You're pulling out all the stops tonight, Willie :rolleyes:

JustRalph
03-17-2015, 08:17 PM
It's unfortunate, but true.

Lower income groups spend proportionately
more than others on the lottery.
Same can be said for tobacco and alcohol.

It sucks to be poor.

No. It sucks to be part of a sub culture that was wholly created by a government that keeps telling you to continue to buy in, "we are going to save you"

I once considered myself poor. I didn't look to government for anything. When my wife and I were sleeping on the floor in a studio apartment a week after I got out of the service, we didn't look to government. In two days she had two jobs waiting tables and I went to work the next week in two jobs. I eventually had three jobs. We did this for two years. Never crossed our minds to look to government.

We have employees now that turn down overtime because "they shouldn't have to work overtime to survive" and they verbalize that. Then complain that they cannot get ahead.

BELMONT 6-6-09
03-17-2015, 08:44 PM
No. It sucks to be part of a sub culture that was wholly created by a government that keeps telling you to continue to buy in, "we are going to save you"

I once considered myself poor. I didn't look to government for anything. When my wife and I were sleeping on the floor in a studio apartment a week after I got out of the service, we didn't look to government. In two days she had two jobs waiting tables and I went to work the next week in two jobs. I eventually had three jobs. We did this for two years. Never crossed our minds to look to government.

We have employees now that turn down overtime because "they shouldn't have to work overtime to survive" and they verbalize that. Then complain that they cannot get ahead.

Very well said and a lot to be proud of. hat's off to both of you!

PaceAdvantage
03-19-2015, 12:37 PM
It's unfortunate, but true.

Lower income groups spend proportionately
more than others on the lottery.
Same can be said for tobacco and alcohol.

It sucks to be poor.The government has to get their piece of the action from this group...especially since this group isn't providing much in the way of income taxes...that's how the game is rigged, right h4c?

I've always wondered why cigarettes were never permanently banned in this country, like most other consumer products that are proven to cause cancer. Money and tax revenue is certainly a big part of the answer.

I forgot about the state lottery...that's a biggie...

Clocker
03-19-2015, 01:24 PM
I forgot about the state lottery...that's a biggie...

That's one that keeps liberal heads spinning like a roulette wheel. It's evil because the people that play it are too stupid to know what is good for them, but it's good because the money is going to the government.

What's a hypocrite to do? :rolleyes: