Mountaineer races

[lamboguy]

they just had a nw4 allowance race going long, its the second time this meet that race has been run.

almost everyday they are carding 3 or 4 allowance or msw races since the meet started.

you really can't complain about the menu over there so far.

[letswastemoney]

I just won some money on the race before that. Thank God they have some allowance races.

Handicapping 5k claiming races is difficult. There is no rhyme or reason to the winners. Just throw darts.

When it's a MSW or allowance race though, I can see things a bit clearer.

[cutchemist42]

I just won some money on the race before that. Thank God they have some allowance races.

Handicapping 5k claiming races is difficult. There is no rhyme or reason to the winners. Just throw darts.

When it's a MSW or allowance race though, I can see things a bit clearer.

Congrats, I had that 7th winner as my second selection, based on the pacesetup I figured he would have a comfortable situation but still went with the :2: .

And yeah, Mtn has been carding some good races so far.

[lamboguy]

even though they have been small fields, its kind of taken the batch bettors out of the equation. the lopsided odds are not appearing and you don't have to guess whom those computer's are going to land on.

when the meet first started the handle was way off, now with people noticing that there hasn't been drastic odds swings, bettors are starting to come back.

because there are 2 tracks within 40 miles of each other with the same type of horses the field sizes have become smaller. in about a month, the mountain will have turf racing and that should help the field sizes.

Will Rogers Downs opened up today, it another track without a turf course, i like playing that place during the day. the handle's not that bad.

[elhelmete]

Mahoning and MNR are struggling with horse pop, according to the article in Bloodhorse.

[mountainman]

I copied the first two postings from this thread and distributed them to some horsemen. Most trainers think our sole responsibility in the racing office is to accommodate as many cheap, local horses as possible. In truth, however, the players should come first and do appreciate that we don't serve an endless diet of bottom claimers.

As a longtime advocate of allotting significant portions of our purse funds to msw and non-life alw races, it's gratifying to read this kind of feedback. And although we won't be completely out of the woods until Mahoning closes for the season, things ARE on a slight uptick now as more and more local outfits shake off a long hard winter and begin to participate.

And we will soon have those seven green furlongs as our hole card.

[cutchemist42]

I copied the first two postings from this thread and distributed them to some horsemen. Most trainers think our sole responsibility in the racing office is to accommodate as many cheap, local horses as possible. In truth, however, the players should come first and do appreciate that we don't serve an endless diet of bottom claimers.

As a longtime advocate of allotting significant portions of our purse funds to msw and non-life alw races, it's gratifying to read this kind of feedback. And although we won't be completely out of the woods until Mahoning closes for the season, things ARE on a slight uptick now as more and more local outfits shake off a long hard winter and begin to participate.

And we will soon have those seven green furlongs as our hole card.

Been very capable races to handicap ever since the weird cold cards to start the season. IMO, just the best night track.

[mountainvalleypete]

Big shout out to R Hallograeme! Nice 3rd place effort for the 11 year old off the 5 1/2 year layoff!!!

[Shemp Howard]

Big shout out to R Hallograeme! Nice 3rd place effort for the 11 year old off the 5 1/2 year layoff!!!

He was well rested.

[Canarsie]

Even though it would be a copycat (imitation is the best form of flattery) move it would be great if Nancy (ladies always first) and Mark did a show like Talking Horses that NYRA puts on. They both interact sensationally, it's a natural fit especially if one could catch up on demand.

Thoughts?

[Zaf]

Yikes a 4 horse field and four 5 horse fields tonight , hope things get better.

Z

[mountainman]

Even though it would be a copycat (imitation is the best form of flattery) move it would be great if Nancy (ladies always first) and Mark did a show like Talking Horses that NYRA puts on. They both interact sensationally, it's a natural fit especially if one could catch up on demand.

Thoughts?

A replay show was discussed in 2013, but neither of us have the time. My downstairs work as mnr's ast racing sec consumes much of my day, and Nancy squeezes in her handicapping while caring for a wide array of critters.

Light entries and late closings are the reason, by the way, that I sometimes am absent for the first part of our show. My first allegiance is to the racing dept.

[Maximillion]

Was really looking forward to Haw and Mnr as 2 new tracks to begin playing in late March....its about as bleak right now at these 2 venues as i have seen since returning to the game a few years ago.For all involved i sincerely wish this situation improves.

[mountainvalleypete]

Excited to be on track for the return of the very polarizing Paul Bunyan in the 9th!

[soupman2]

Any hope that Mountaineer can bounce back? Became one of my favorite tracks. Whatever weird handicapping I used it seemed to work there. There were good fields and a winner could come from anywhere. My buddy and I get together once a week and meet at the Rockingham Park for cigars and "Mountaineer Monday". It is horrible now. 4-5 maybe 6 horses in a race. Tomorrow night has nothing but 5 and 6 horse races BEFORE scratches.

Can anyone give me hope that they can get back to 8-9 horse fields or is this one just going away too?

[duncan04]

Any hope that Mountaineer can bounce back? Became one of my favorite tracks. Whatever weird handicapping I used it seemed to work there. There were good fields and a winner could come from anywhere. My buddy and I get together once a week and meet at the Rockingham Park for cigars and "Mountaineer Monday". It is horrible now. 4-5 maybe 6 horses in a race. Tomorrow night has nothing but 5 and 6 horse races BEFORE scratches.

Can anyone give me hope that they can get back to 8-9 horse fields or is this one just going away too?

Best hope is when Mahoning Valley's meet ends.

[soupman2]

Thanks Duncan for giving me some hope. BTW, Turfway is one of my favorites too. Cashed a signer from there recently.

[tanner12oz]

Thanks Duncan for giving me some hope. BTW, Turfway is one of my favorites too. Cashed a signer from there recently.

probably the most bizarre outcomes out of any track currently open

[Stillriledup]

Gargantuan balloons at Mountaineer Race 2 tonight.

[Tall One]

The tri paid over 30 grand.. :eek:

[Stillriledup]

The tri paid over 30 grand.. :eek:

30k for a BUCK no less!

[tanner12oz]

Super had 2 alls and was still a signer

[mountainvalleypete]

Did anyone else watch Race 9 tonight? I am absolutely steamed. I had NO dog in the fight, yet I am still absolutely steamed. Never in my life have I seen a stupider disqualification, much less a DOUBLE disqualification made. And look who the benefitting jockey is. On a 1-5 shot who had $6,000 to win on him with 15 minutes to post before any horse even had $200 to win on him. Look, I ain't no conspiracy theorist, but I just lost a lot of faith in the track I've been going to my entire life. :bang:

[P Matties Jr]

Did anyone else watch Race 9 tonight? I am absolutely steamed. I had NO dog in the fight, yet I am still absolutely steamed. Never in my life have I seen a stupider disqualification, much less a DOUBLE disqualification made. And look who the benefitting jockey is. On a 1-5 shot who had $6,000 to win on him with 15 minutes to post before any horse even had $200 to win on him. Look, I ain't no conspiracy theorist, but I just lost a lot of faith in the track I've been going to my entire life. :bang:

That was the most ridiculous inquiry I have ever seen. The 4 kept a complete straight line and had nothing to do with anything. Anybody that could take that horse down has no business being in that capacity. I too have lost total faith in betting a track I have enjoyed since it began simulcasting. That was a disgrace.

[EMD4ME]

Did anyone else watch Race 9 tonight? I am absolutely steamed. I had NO dog in the fight, yet I am still absolutely steamed. Never in my life have I seen a stupider disqualification, much less a DOUBLE disqualification made. And look who the benefitting jockey is. On a 1-5 shot who had $6,000 to win on him with 15 minutes to post before any horse even had $200 to win on him. Look, I ain't no conspiracy theorist, but I just lost a lot of faith in the track I've been going to my entire life. :bang:

I had no bet, just neutrally watched this replay and I have to agree. That is one of the WORST DQ's that I have ever seen.

No exaggeration. That was utterly DISGUSTING. The 4 was COMPLETELY innocent. The 3 deserved to be DQ'd.

That was repulsive.

[BombsAway Bob]

That was the most ridiculous inquiry I have ever seen. The 4 kept a complete straight line and had nothing to do with anything. Anybody that could take that horse down has no business being in that capacity. I too have lost total faith in betting a track I have enjoyed since it began simulcasting. That was a disgrace.
When they showed head-on,
i thought "maybe second place horse comes down."
Like you said, #4 did NOTHING to deserve a DQ.
(& how did a tiring #2 get put up?IMO Horse was done when bumped)

[EMD4ME]

When they showed head-on,
i thought "maybe second place horse comes down."
Like you said, #4 did NOTHING to deserve a DQ.
(& how did a tiring #2 get put up?IMO Horse was done when bumped)


Mountainman, we LOVE you, please chime in with some logical reason that we can't see.....

[Light]

I had the #3 at 24-1 who got dq'd for what? I don't know. The #4 @ 18-1 did interfere with the #2 who had to pull up. So they double DQ to get the 1-2 favorite on top of the 5/2 second choice. To DQ the #4 I can see. But my #3 DQ'd. :faint: Stewards must have needed the chalk exacta. It's one of the biggest faces in sports. No consistency.

BTW, I thought Mountainman and Nancy made a very hasty analysis by saying this 1-2 will win, case closed. No analysis. Ummm, did you notice the horse had no workouts in 36 days and if there are no "hidden workouts" that means the horse may have a problem doing his thing. Of course horses win without workouts but who bets 1-2 horses with no workouts in over a month except fools.

[EMD4ME]

I had the #3 at 24-1 who got dq'd for what? I don't know. The #4 @ 18-1 did interfere with the #2 who had to pull up. So they double DQ to get the 1-2 favorite on top of the 5/2 second choice. To DQ the #4 I can see. But my #3 DQ'd. :faint: Stewards must have needed the chalk exacta. It's one of the biggest faces in sports. No consistency.

BTW, I thought Mountainman and Nancy made a very hasty analysis by saying this 1-2 will win, case closed. No analysis. Ummm, did you notice the horse had no workouts in 36 days and if there are no "hidden workouts" that means the horse may have a problem doing his thing. Of course horses win without workouts but who bets 1-2 horses with no workouts in over a month except fools.

Did you actually watch the head on?

With both eyes?

Sober?

The entire time?

Without bias?

With no one distracting you?

And both eyes open?

[Light]

Yes and I got tired of them showing it. BTW the inquiry went right up after the race on the #4 for interference with the #2. It was about 5 minutes into the inquiry that they announced that there was also a jockey objection of the #2 against the #4 and the 1A against my #3 who barely, barely touched the horse for about 1.3 seconds. I say touched, not slammed. I've had my horses slammed into and the jockey hang on for dear life and they don't make a change. It's a complete joke.

[mountainvalleypete]

I have to agree with Light on this one. I do believe that NEITHER of the horses should have been disqualified. From what I saw on the head-on however, it looks as though the #4 came over on the #2 much more than the #3 came over on the #1. That said, the #3 and #4 were going by the #1 and #2.

[EMD4ME]

Yes and I got tired of them showing it. BTW the inquiry went right up after the race on the #4 for interference with the #2. It was about 5 minutes into the inquiry that they announced that there was also a jockey objection of the #2 against the #4 and the 1A against my #3 who barely, barely touched the horse for about 1.3 seconds. I say touched, not slammed. I've had my horses slammed into and the jockey hang on for dear life and they don't make a change. It's a complete joke.


If you don't see that the 4 kept a STRAIGHT LINE, WHILE the 3 moved in a few paths and caused the 1 to ram into the 2 to ram into the 4, I suggest you bet heavier and heavier and heavier.

Do me one favor though, please bet a lot of money at Emerald Downs and all NYRA tracks :)

[EMD4ME]

Guys, seriously, watch the head on. This is not even open to debate. That is how black and white 1000000000000000000000% obvious it is to the seasoned handicapper/rookie to this game.

The 3 moves in, bumps the 1, who bumps the 2 who hits the right rear end of the 4.

The 4 was maintaining a straight line the entire stretch. The 4 was hit but brushed off the hit and kept going straight. That poor horse deserves a medal or brownie points.

Yes, I would DQ the 3. Keep a relative straight line damn it. I would be pissed if I bet the 3 but he did deserve a DQ.

Do you guys have access to the head on? Do you need it?

[Light]

If you don't see that the 4 kept a STRAIGHT LINE, WHILE the 3 moved in a few paths and caused the 1 to ram into the 2 to ram into the 4, I suggest you bet heavier and heavier and heavier.

Do me one favor though, please bet a lot of money at Emerald Downs and all NYRA tracks


What does getting Dq'd have to do with betting heavier? As a winning player you know you're not going to get every call your way. You take it and move on. If you are a losing player, you factor that negative emotion into your future plays and watch your ship sink.

[EMD4ME]

After watching this another 20 times, I am completely disgusted that the 4 was DQ'd. If anything he was moving inward a hair (NEVER MOVED OUTWARD A SINGLE EYE LASH during the stretch run).

These stewards should not only be fired, they should be banned from any capacity in all of racing.

If racing were truly 1000% legit, I would investigate these stewards for "other motives" behind this DQ.

Again, yes, I would most definitely of DQ'd the 3. That's warranted. The 4???

[EMD4ME]

What does getting Dq'd have to do with betting heavier? As a winning player you know you're not going to get every call your way. You take it and move on. If you are a losing player, you factor that negative emotion into your future plays and watch your ship sink.

Because if you actually see the 3 not doing anything wrong, then you're more than likely to see a lot of other things irrationally.

I was just busting your chops.

Now common, you really don't see the 3 coming in and smacking/intimidating/pushing the 1 inward?

[mountainvalleypete]

I guess my deal is this: the 3 is going by the 1, regardless of whether there is contact or not. True there is some contact, but not enough for me to think the 1 beats the 3 for second.

[RXB]

I just watched the replay and I agree that the DQ of the :4: is terrible. Holy cow. :3: deserved its DQ but no way :4: should come down.

[P Matties Jr]

Agree with some that all the contact had no bearing on the outcome and the result should have (or at least could have) stayed up. I do concede, though, that the crowding the #3 caused was substantial enough for him to be disqualified and I would not have been annoyed by the decision to disqualify him. However, the #4 did nothing but maintain a straight course and it's outrageous they could even consider taking him down. It was a complete joke and it's pure incompetence by the stewards.

[AlbertButtry]

The 3 was hit right handed 4 times while lugging in on the 1. The 1 was forced into the 2 who then was forced onto the heels of the 4. The 4 should not have been disqualified. I have no idea what they were looking at.

[Track Phantom]

I didn't play the race and only watched the replay now. I can see why they DQ'd the #3, as he drifted in on the two runners to his inside.

But the #4? How could a steward, with a straight face, make a case for that runner being DQ'd? I watched it multiple times and the runner never deviated from a straight path.

It is unbelievable that this can go unchecked. Isn't there ANY oversight or do these stewards get to make any decision they want?

In my opinion, a competent steward or stewards would NEVER even consider this horse to be DQ'd. They'd get this right 10,000 out of 10,000 times.

[mountainman]

I was rushing home even as the race was run (my son starts at 11 pm and commutes to work in my jeep). But if somebody posts a link, I'll look at the replay.

I do some pretty intense analysis, and thus like to give it a rest , to throttle back on the last race, especially on Wednesdays.

That said, and in response to an earlier post on this thread, I was ok with the abbreviated commentary we did give. First off NOBODY said the 5 horse was a cinch, or recommended that ANYBODY bet win ( or any other way) on a 1/2 chalk. I simply observed that I saw the horse as a likely winner. After putting one knock on Avoid by observing he would have to win AGAINST LAST NIGHT'S GRAIN, and seeing no particular contrarian option, I booked for home.

And concerning the horse's 5-week absence, I saw no reference (in that earlier post) to the fact that Avoid had picked up last night's 2-12 mo condition JUST 5 days ago, which normally would explain the respite-and speak strongly to trainer intent.

[Exotic1]

After watching this another 20 times, I am completely disgusted that the 4 was DQ'd. If anything he was moving inward a hair (NEVER MOVED OUTWARD A SINGLE EYE LASH during the stretch run).

These stewards should not only be fired, they should be banned from any capacity in all of racing.

If racing were truly 1000% legit, I would investigate these stewards for "other motives" behind this DQ.

Again, yes, I would most definitely of DQ'd the 3. That's warranted. The 4???

Hey EMD,

Here's my ticket for the p5 last night:

###### June 17, 2015 8:29 PM ###### Race 5 Mountaineer Park
$0.50 P5 (PWHL) 7 / 3, 4, 6, 7 / 1, 2, 3, 4 / 2, 4, 5 / 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 Bet $120 $626.95

Will-pay with the #4 in the 9th was $5,015 for 50 cents. Difference of about $4,500.

Why would I play a p5 at MNR with no pools? Because I'm nuts. Additionally, there has been a severe bias over the last few nights where running styles were advantaged or disadvantaged and where race flows didn't develop b/c of it. I thought the favorites in Race #6 and Race #9 were going to be disadvantaged, so I took a shot. I keyed the #7 in Race #5 in doubles as well.

[mountainman]

I didn't play the race and only watched the replay now. I can see why they DQ'd the #3, as he drifted in on the two runners to his inside.

But the #4? How could a steward, with a straight face, make a case for that runner being DQ'd? I watched it multiple times and the runner never deviated from a straight path.

It is unbelievable that this can go unchecked. Isn't there ANY oversight or do these stewards get to make any decision they want?

In my opinion, a competent steward or stewards would NEVER even consider this horse to be DQ'd. They'd get this right 10,000 out of 10,000 times.

WV's racing commission would be the oversight and recourse, should a formal protest be lodged. Any such protest would have to be filed within 48 hours. I can't recall any mnr DQ being overturned. Such complaints are largely seen as fruitless, and seldom ever filed.

[bello]

There is a distinct bias EVERY night. If one is diligent withabout trip notes on the bias they can destroy the place. If not. MTNEER is unplayable. Can't weigh in on the DQ...didn't see it and don't want to get involved in this controversy.

[EMD4ME]

Hey EMD,

Here's my ticket for the p5 last night:

###### June 17, 2015 8:29 PM ###### Race 5 Mountaineer Park
$0.50 P5 (PWHL) 7 / 3, 4, 6, 7 / 1, 2, 3, 4 / 2, 4, 5 / 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 Bet $120 $626.95

Will-pay with the #4 in the 9th was $5,015 for 50 cents. Difference of about $4,500.

Why would I play a p5 at MNR with no pools? Because I'm nuts. Additionally, there has been a severe bias over the last few nights where running styles were advantaged or disadvantaged and where race flows didn't develop b/c of it. I thought the favorites in Race #6 and Race #9 were going to be disadvantaged, so I took a shot. I keyed the #7 in Race #5 in doubles as well.

OOOUCHH... Did you get any sleep?

Just for principle, I would write to the WV racing commission. If anything, just to annoy someone who might have to read the letter/email.

I'm so crazy, I once called the stewards and made believe I was a trainer. I blasted them and hung up. I at least felt a little bit better after I hung up.

I told them my loan shark (I don't actually have one) will be outside in the parking lot waiting to discuss their decision with his fist.

I brushed it off and started studying for the next day.

How much was it? $20,000 and they DQ'd the WRONG horse, just like in your case.

[EMD4ME]

http://www.calracing.com/live-video/replays/

Just pop "key reversal" into the horse search field.

June 17 race 9 MNR is the race.

[EMD4ME]

You know what....I don't care what it costs MNR but they should go back and pay everyone on the correct result. Take the 3 down, that is warranted. But leave the 4 up. Pay off all WPS, EX, TRI, SUP, SUPER HIGH 5, DD, P4 and P5 payouts to the 4.

Eat the money. It would do wonders for belief in their product.

After watching that yet again, it was repulsive.

I don't want to hear the steward was fined, demoted, blah blah. That doesn't put money back in your pocket.

I won't do it as I don't have the energy or the time but I would love to see someone annoy a racetrack with a class action suit/some sort of lawsuit for blatant highway robbery like this was.

[Donttellmeshowme]

I just watched the replay. How you can take the 4 down is beyond me. Horse kept a straight path all the way down the lane. If im the trainer or owner of the 4 im freakin livid.


Brent you better go buy a lottery ticket my boy.

[cj]

WV's racing commission would be the oversight and recourse, should a formal protest be lodged. Any such protest would have to be filed within 48 hours. I can't recall any mnr DQ being overturned. Such complaints are largely seen as fruitless, and seldom ever filed.

What did you think of the replay?

[outofthebox]

A disgrace...To bad they don't have a steward cam like Canterbury explaining the decision..

[Exotic1]

You know what....I don't care what it costs MNR but they should go back and pay everyone on the correct result. Take the 3 down, that is warranted. But leave the 4 up. Pay off all WPS, EX, TRI, SUP, SUPER HIGH 5, DD, P4 and P5 payouts to the 4.

Eat the money. It would do wonders for belief in their product.

After watching that yet again, it was repulsive.

I don't want to hear the steward was fined, demoted, blah blah. That doesn't put money back in your pocket.

I won't do it as I don't have the energy or the time but I would love to see someone annoy a racetrack with a class action suit/some sort of lawsuit for blatant highway robbery like this was.

EMD,

I'm with you on this, in concept.

There should be simpler rules regarding race time rulings that take the bettor out of the equation.

1) Two minute review rule. Stewards (judges?) have 2 minutes max to review video and another minute max to render decision. If it's not obvious after two minutes, don't write a novel. Move on.

2) Decisions must be unanimous. There must be a joke "How do you get three Stewards into one room ...".

Majority decisions won't do it. If it's not obvious, don't act.

3) Take your sweet time subsequent to the race with regards to purse re-distribution, punitive actions against jockey etc.

4) In general, follow SRU's lead, no take downs for 99% of the infractions unless jock pulls the other off their horse. Fine them, suspend them as a deterrent.

5) Betting coups (mostly) are not accomplished by a jock interfering with another horse while a race is run. They are accomplished by jocks stiffing and trainers drugging their horses. To protect bettors and owners, there should be instances where the offended (of an interference incident) should be placed in a "dead heat state" with the offender regardless of where the offended places. The purses will be shared (to some degree) by the owners, and bettors will not rip up their tickets. Yes, prices will be diluted and a mess to program the tote to accommodate 70%- 30% dead heat, but it's a start.

I don't know, just some ranting. Current rules don't work.

[Stillriledup]

Great post E1.

The bettor at Gulfstream who got taken down for over a million should get the same judging that owners get in grade 1 races that are worth 2 million. If that was a BC race it doesnt come down, they arent going to dq an owner for a million or more unless its really something they have no choice, but this bettor came down as if it was just another race.

I like the idea that you dont need 15 mins, if its not a takedown you could make in 2 mins, pay the winners. Its not rocket science.

[EMD4ME]

EMD,

I'm with you on this, in concept.

There should be simpler rules regarding race time rulings that take the bettor out of the equation.

1) Two minute review rule. Stewards (judges?) have 2 minutes max to review video and another minute max to render decision. If it's not obvious after two minutes, don't write a novel. Move on.

2) Decisions must be unanimous. There must be a joke "How do you get three Stewards into one room ...".

Majority decisions won't do it. If it's not obvious, don't act.

3) Take your sweet time subsequent to the race with regards to purse re-distribution, punitive actions against jockey etc.

4) In general, follow SRU's lead, no take downs for 99% of the infractions unless jock pulls the other off their horse. Fine them, suspend them as a deterrent.

5) Betting coups (mostly) are not accomplished by a jock interfering with another horse while a race is run. They are accomplished by jocks stiffing and trainers drugging their horses. To protect bettors and owners, there should be instances where the offended (of an interference incident) should be placed in a "dead heat state" with the offender regardless of where the offended places. The purses will be shared (to some degree) by the owners, and bettors will not rip up their tickets. Yes, prices will be diluted and a mess to program the tote to accommodate 70%- 30% dead heat, but it's a start.

I don't know, just some ranting. Current rules don't work.

I don't mind if they take 2 minutes or 11. That's fine with me, just get it right and be consistent.

I don't think 2 out of 3 is enough of a majority either. I understand tracks can't pay 11 stewards, so I get why there are 3. I can't be too hard on the current system.

I DO think they should have 2 decisions most of the time. 1 for the bettors and 1 for the connections. (Yes, I realize owners bet but hear me out).

In races where the outcome was not changed by the foul BUT there was a foul, leave the parimutual results alone. Fine the jockey or DQ him for purse purposes.

I totally agree about the betting coup point but who's to say there was no betting coup and the stewards had a pick 5 live to the chalk and had a chance to cash? No one could prove that but no one could say they didn't when CRAP and I do mean literal horse shit crap like this takes place.

[mountainman]

What did you think of the replay?

just got in from golfing, not ducking the issue, will indeed watch and weigh in later, after my son and I have spent time and had dinner,,,,as a racing official, I can't engage in histrionics or call the stewards out, but as an analyst, I probably owe mnr players and all the board members here who've been so kind to me a blunt opinion..and that I will provide, sir..

[Exotic1]

I don't mind if they take 2 minutes or 11. That's fine with me, just get it right and be consistent.

I don't think 2 out of 3 is enough of a majority either. I understand tracks can't pay 11 stewards, so I get why there are 3. I can't be too hard on the current system.

I DO think they should have 2 decisions most of the time. 1 for the bettors and 1 for the connections. (Yes, I realize owners bet but hear me out).

In races where the outcome was not changed by the foul BUT there was a foul, leave the parimutual results alone. Fine the jockey or DQ him for purse purposes.

I totally agree about the betting coup point but who's to say there was no betting coup and the stewards had a pick 5 live to the chalk and had a chance to cash? No one could prove that but no one could say they didn't when CRAP and I do mean literal horse shit crap like this takes place.

Absolutely. Have different rulings for owners, bettors and jockeys.

When I said two minutes max, sometimes, the more you look at things the more you wonder well maybe...

I'm with Malcolm Gladwell, author of Blink when it comes to this. The initial response to a trained eye should pick up if the infraction was that severe to cause a disqualification. No one can get it right all the time if subjective judgment is involved. We don't need to get it right. Just leave things the way they actually happened and deal with it afterwards with fines and suspensions. If fines and suspensions were severe and fair, herding, interference would be reduced. Protect the bettors so they don't rip up tickets when their charge didn't have a fair chance. If they have to, refund all wagers on a horse that was interfered with. Prices on the winner will be reduced with the refund, but so what.Yeah right, the tracks will love returning money and giving up the the takeout.

[EMD4ME]

just got in from golfing, not ducking the issue, will indeed watch and weigh in later, after my son and I have spent time and had dinner,,,,as a racing official, I can't engage in histrionics or call the stewards out, but as an analyst, I probably owe mnr players and all the board members here who've been so kind to me a blunt opinion..and that I will provide, sir..

That's to be respected mountainman. Family comes first and your "off" time is 10000% needed to be fresh and recharged.

[mountainman]

I would have disqualified the 3 horse and let the winner stand. It's not the worst call I've ever seen-the 4 did drift just a tad, almost imperceptibly, and was a tiny bit responsible for closing the 2 horse's hole. But the 3 horse did 90% of the damage, and the 4 did not drift sufficiently, nor soon enough, to be taken down.

Also, had the 3 not instigated all bumping, the 2 would not have been in such a precarious place that the slightest alteration from the winner could pound a final nail in his coffin.

Just my opinion.

[Track Phantom]

I would have disqualified the 3 horse and let the winner stand. It's not the worst call I've ever seen-the 4 did drift just a tad, almost imperceptibly, and was a tiny bit responsible for closing the 2 horse's hole. But the 3 horse did 90% of the damage, and the 4 did not drift sufficiently, nor soon enough, to be taken down.

Also, had the 3 not instigated all bumping, the 2 would not have been in such a precarious place that the slightest alteration from the winner could pound a final nail in his coffin.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for your response.

I agree almost fully except when the #3 started to drift and cascade the #1 and #2 towards the #4, anything the #4 did in response to that is moot.

If I had the #4, I would be beyond livid. I have far less of a problem with stewards leaving an obvious infraction up (i.e. Breeders' Cup Classic) than actually taking action against a phantom event. There are people (like the guy that posted earlier that had the pick 5 for over 5k) that may never be in a position to cash like that again.

[EMD4ME]

Another racing travesty that just gets forgotten about...

[Stillriledup]

Another racing travesty that just gets forgotten about...

Great post.

This happens a lot in this game, a controversy takes place, people are 'outraged' for 5 seconds and than its business as usual. If nobody cares and no law enforcement is going to show up at your door w handcuffs and your bosses will never question you and you're never in danger of being fired, why not? There's no downside. Nobody cares.

[thaskalos]

Another racing travesty that just gets forgotten about...
How can we concentrate on the old "racing travesty"...when we know that the NEW one is just around the corner?

[EMD4ME]

How can we concentrate on the old "racing travesty"...when we know that the NEW one is just around the corner?

Oh Thaskalos ...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That was a heart felt laugh!

[Stillriledup]

Anyone see the 8th at mtn tonight? I could have sworn the 3 horse was 1-1 heading into the gate. Did my eyes deceive me?

[FocusWiz]

Your imagination is good, but you did not imagine that.

Here is what I captured at Mountaineer. The odds are decimal, so the 2.0 represents 1/1.

[mountainvalleypete]

Anyone watch the nightcap? Easily the two longest shots run 1-2!!! Anyone else also notice the extremely weird amount of play on both the 1 and 5? Looked as though someone put $1,000 to win on both early in the betting.

[FocusWiz]

This was an odd night there and also at Charles Town.

I was not paying a lot of attention there, but you are right about money coming in early on the :1: and :5:.

The effect on the :1: is not as pronounced, but look at the drop of the :5: in the attached. Both dropped around the same time, forcing everyone else up.

[Stillriledup]

Anyone watch the nightcap? Easily the two longest shots run 1-2!!! Anyone else also notice the extremely weird amount of play on both the 1 and 5? Looked as though someone put $1,000 to win on both early in the betting.

I saw that, looked like fake out bets, the 1 and 5 looked dreadful on paper. Two thirds of win pool came in after it was too late to see.

[cnollfan]

Except for the biggest days at the biggest tracks, I have started to pretty much ignore the tote board and use the possible payoffs from doubles, pick 3s and pick 4s as a proxy for the ultimate odds ranking the favorite, second favorite, etc. Even if the horizontal pool is smaller than the WPS pool will be, it has the advantage of being closed, so every bet that was going to be made into it has already been made.

[Stillriledup]

Except for the biggest days at the biggest tracks, I have started to pretty much ignore the tote board and use the possible payoffs from doubles, pick 3s and pick 4s as a proxy for the ultimate odds ranking the favorite, second favorite, etc. Even if the horizontal pool is smaller than the WPS pool will be, it has the advantage of being closed, so every bet that was going to be made into it has already been made.

This is a very good idea, when i see odd betting i check out horizontals as well as the exa pool, sometimes if a horse has a fake out bet, he will be long in exactas, thats another way to tell.

[mountainvalleypete]

Boy, talk about giving players the shaft. Race 4, the obviously better part of the entry scratches and leaves a horse I could outrun (I am an avid runner) as the favorite. Seriously, can we just abolish entries? They do absolutely nothing to help anyone.

[EMD4ME]

That's where the NYRA rule helps.

If 1 part of the entry is scratched, the other races for purse only.

If you bet pick 4's, you're still screwed.

Bad....

[dragon49]

That's where the NYRA rule helps.

If 1 part of the entry is scratched, the other races for purse only.

If you bet pick 4's, you're still screwed.

Bad....

Pls elaborate and link to the rule.

[EMD4ME]

Pls elaborate and link to the rule.

In NY, if you bet the 1 or 1A and the 1 or 1A is scratched, the remaining part of the entry runs for purse only.

This helps but it's not a 100% solution. If you liked the 1A and 1 is scracthed AND the 1A wins, you are pissed.

If you have the entry in p3's p4's p5's p6's, you get the fav. We know how that usually turns out.

I don't have a link. Maybe you can find it on NYRA.com?

[dragon49]

In NY, if you bet the 1 or 1A and the 1 or 1A is scratched, the remaining part of the entry runs for purse only.

This helps but it's not a 100% solution. If you liked the 1A and 1 is scracthed AND the 1A wins, you are pissed.

If you have the entry in p3's p4's p5's p6's, you get the fav. We know how that usually turns out.

I don't have a link. Maybe you can find it on NYRA.com?

AAH - Purse only - I get it now.

Is this a rule for NY tracks, or wagers placed from NY?

[EMD4ME]

AAH - Purse only - I get it now.

Is this a rule for NY tracks, or wagers placed from NY?

I believe it's for all NY tracks. Not 100% sure. I know it at least applies to all NYRA tracks. Don't know about FL or those things with wheels on them :)