Anti police program at school

[JustRalph]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/15/hands-up-dont-shoot-school-program-leaves-police-family-furious/

I would flip

[johnhannibalsmith]

Since I hate making threads and this poor one looked lonely and just in case we've gotten so jaded that we miss the other end of the extreme:


The officers observed a minor traffic violation and pulled over the driver, also the father of the 10-month-old girl, on the violation, Hodges, 26, a nearly two-year veteran of the force, told ABC News.

When the officers spoke with the parents, who were not identified, they quickly realized they did not have the resources to purchase a car seat for their daughter.



https://gma.yahoo.com/michigan-police-officers-buy-family-car-seat-instead-203217907.html


I've been pretty outspoken about my own perspective about what policing has seemingly become in too many places. So, when you do still see guys like Andy Taylor on the job, doing the right thing rather than having Barney check the code, it makes you almost understand the upside of being a cop.

[JustRalph]

Thousands of similar incidents every year. Never get exposed. I've been involved in everything from hiring a babysitter service to a group of cops buying all the materials and painting a house. Literally mending fences and more.

One of my favs is a group of cops who cut a deal to help low income residents keep their cars legal. Huge discounts on headlights, tail light bulbs etc and a shop that installed the parts for free as long as they presented a "fix a ticket"

[thaskalos]

Every profession -- with politics being the most notable exception -- has its share of "unsung heroes". I too have run into these charitable cops once or twice...and if I live to be a hundred, I may run into them once or twice more.

[Hank]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/15/hands-up-dont-shoot-school-program-leaves-police-family-furious/

I would flip

And the reason you would flip is your inability to comprehend that your perception of this event is biased in the extreme.For example in the Jim-crow era any Black person who advocated self defense if attacked, was perceived by racist as advocating violence.Everyone is implicitly biased to some extent,unfortunately rightwingers appear to suffer from an extreme strain of it.

Implicit biases are pervasive. Everyone possesses them, even people with avowed commitments to impartiality such as judges.
Implicit and explicit biases are related but distinct mental constructs. They are not mutually exclusive and may even reinforce each other.
The implicit associations we hold do not necessarily align with our declared beliefs or even reflect stances we would explicitly endorse.
We generally tend to hold implicit biases that favor our own ingroup, though research has shown that we can still hold implicit biases against our ingroup.
Implicit biases are malleable. Our brains are incredibly complex, and the implicit associations that we have formed can be gradually unlearned through a variety of debiasing techniques.

http://kirwaninstitute.osu.edu/research/understanding-implicit-bias/

[JustRalph]

And the reason you would flip is your inability to comprehend that your perception of this event is biased in the extreme.For example in the Jim-crow era any Black person who advocated self defense if attacked, was perceived by racist as advocating violence.Everyone is implicitly biased to some extent,unfortunately rightwingers appear to suffer from an extreme strain of it.

Implicit biases are pervasive. Everyone possesses them, even people with avowed commitments to impartiality such as judges.
Implicit and explicit biases are related but distinct mental constructs. They are not mutually exclusive and may even reinforce each other.
The implicit associations we hold do not necessarily align with our declared beliefs or even reflect stances we would explicitly endorse.
We generally tend to hold implicit biases that favor our own ingroup, though research has shown that we can still hold implicit biases against our ingroup.
Implicit biases are malleable. Our brains are incredibly complex, and the implicit associations that we have formed can be gradually unlearned through a variety of debiasing techniques.

http://kirwaninstitute.osu.edu/research/understanding-implicit-bias/

Yeah right, that's it. You're so full of shit your eyes have to be brown

[boxcar]

Yeah right, that's it. You're so full of shit your eyes have to be brown

That's a very biased opinion. :lol: :lol:

[Hank]

Yeah right, that's it. You're so full of shit your eyes have to be brown

Additional evidence supporting my conclusion.Thanks. :cool:

[thaskalos]

And the reason you would flip is your inability to comprehend that your perception of this event is biased in the extreme.For example in the Jim-crow era any Black person who advocated self defense if attacked, was perceived by racist as advocating violence.Everyone is implicitly biased to some extent,unfortunately rightwingers appear to suffer from an extreme strain of it.

Implicit biases are pervasive. Everyone possesses them, even people with avowed commitments to impartiality such as judges.
Implicit and explicit biases are related but distinct mental constructs. They are not mutually exclusive and may even reinforce each other.
The implicit associations we hold do not necessarily align with our declared beliefs or even reflect stances we would explicitly endorse.
We generally tend to hold implicit biases that favor our own ingroup, though research has shown that we can still hold implicit biases against our ingroup.
Implicit biases are malleable. Our brains are incredibly complex, and the implicit associations that we have formed can be gradually unlearned through a variety of debiasing techniques.

http://kirwaninstitute.osu.edu/research/understanding-implicit-bias/
I agree with you these cultural biases are deeply ingrained within us, Hank...but I am confused by the manner in which these biases are interpreted.

For example:

If I say that the Asian students are the smartest students in the world...then I am hailed by the Asian population. But if I say that the Asian adults are the world's worst drivers...then the Asians condemn me for my "biased" views. In both cases I am basing my judgement on my empirical evidence...and I am being equally biased in either case. But look at the difference in the reception that I am getting.

[Tom]

Yeah right, that's it. You're so full of shit your eyes have to be brown

Ergo, Mr. Hanky! :lol:

[MONEY]

SGSrGmHsT8s

[Hank]

I agree with you these cultural biases are deeply ingrained within us, Hank...but I am confused by the manner in which these biases are interpreted.

For example:

If I say that the Asian students are the smartest students in the world...then I am hailed by the Asian population. But if I say that the Asian adults are the world's worst drivers...then the Asians condemn me for my "biased" views. In both cases I am basing my judgement on my empirical evidence...and I am being equally biased in either case. But look at the difference in the reception that I am getting.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here,But I will say that your example is very shaky, because it is grounded in a false equivalency, their is a mountain of data documenting Asian student achievement, on the other hand the evidence for the poor driving skills of Asians consist only of the anecdotal evidence of your experience.

[Hank]

Ergo, Mr. Hanky! :lol:

Therefore Mr.Hanky.???

Try Ditto Mr.Hanky :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Try a dictionary.

[Hank]

Try a dictionary.

I provided the definition of ergo in my reply, :lol: But thanks just the same.
Ergo[Therefore] Hanky. Is a sentence fragment which conveys nothing.Which is normal for you so naturally you did not perceive the error.

Therefore Mr.Hanky.?? :lol:

[Tom]

Boy, you are having trouble keeping up here.
My post, exactly as written, perfectly augments Ralph's post.

You must have led a sheltered life.
Do you know who Mr. Hanky is?

[PaceAdvantage]

A beloved Christmas icon?

[Tom]

Yes, but not Rudolph!

[Dark Horse]

The incarceration rates across the world speak loud and clear about where the US finds itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Would it be a stretch to suggest that police brutality per nation follows roughly the same outline?

Meanwhile, the police continues to be militarized with arms returning to the US from wars such as Iraq.

[JustRalph]

The incarceration rates across the world speak loud and clear about where the US finds itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Would it be a stretch to suggest that police brutality per nation follows roughly the same outline?

Meanwhile, the police continues to be militarized with arms returning to the US from wars such as Iraq.

Are you kidding? Are you implying that in The United States that police brutality happens more often than some of those other countries on the list ?

Police brutality isn't even quantified most of the time. One mans police brutality is another mans tough take down. Police brutality in the U.S. Has a money making machine driving it. They are called lawyers. They will file a police brutality suit and a civil rights action in a minute if they think they can settle it.

In other countries cops can wholesale whip your ass and drive away. Cross a cop in Mexico. See what happens. I have a cop friend who just returned from Germany and Belgium and he says the Germans warn you up front if you are about to get your ass kicked with or without arrest and paperwork. Not sure what determines an ass kickin with paperwork or without, but back in the 80's in California that was called "street justice"

I hear this incarceration rate thrown around all the time. Maybe that's why major crime in the U.S. Is down in all categories?

[Hank]

Boy, you are having trouble keeping up here.
My post, exactly as written, perfectly augments Ralph's post.

You must have led a sheltered life.
Do you know who Mr. Hanky is?

Well well well after 68000 post you have managed to be right about something.Congratulations!You're right, I have no have idea what you're talking about. Most likely, because you don't either. What I do know, however is that Ralph's reply and your co-sign thereof, confirms that neither of you are capable of refuting my assertion. :lol:

[Dark Horse]

I hear this incarceration rate thrown around all the time. Maybe that's why major crime in the U.S. Is down in all categories?

That would make sense if the other first world nations had more crime. But that is not the case. The absurdly high incarceration rate is the result of making imprisonment a for-profit business.

Of course, once you start that ball rolling, you create a whole different attitude towards the public in the police force.

To answer your other question. I don't know about third world nations, but those shouldn't be the standard for police brutality. As to first world nations, yes, police brutality in the US is almost certainly the highest. That doesn't mean that all cops are bad, as some seem to interpret such criticism. There are plenty of good cops. The majority, no doubt. It means there are bad cops among the good ones, including some that get away with murder because they are shielded by the uniform. Just do some research into police killings. If you're Caucasian, as I am, these things are far away from you. But they do happen in our nation, and I believe we should be aware of them, and protest them; because if we don't, the ugly tide will only rise.

[PaceAdvantage]

That would make sense if the other first world nations had more crime. But that is not the case. The absurdly high incarceration rate is the result of making imprisonment a for-profit business.

Of course, once you start that ball rolling, you create a whole different attitude towards the public in the police force.

To answer your other question. I don't know about third world nations, but those shouldn't be the standard for police brutality. As to first world nations, yes, police brutality in the US is almost certainly the highest. That doesn't mean that all cops are bad, as some seem to interpret such criticism. There are plenty of good cops. The majority, no doubt. It means there are bad cops among the good ones, including some that get away with murder because they are shielded by the uniform. Just do some research into police killings. If you're Caucasian, as I am, these things are far away from you. But they do happen in our nation, and I believe we should be aware of them, and protest them; because if we don't, the ugly tide will only rise.When it comes to knowing police, I'll value Ralph's word over yours...considering he was actually a cop at one time...and I think his anecdote about Germany and other places outside the US rings true...you honestly think the US is the worst among first world nations when it comes to police brutality? I don't buy that for a second...

I thin you're letting the "police state/martial law" conspiracy theorists get to you and it's clouding your judgement. Not that there is no reason to be concerned over the increased powers given to the police via the various anti-terrorism laws enacted over the years...some of your points regarding this are most certainly valid.

Somewhere in the middle, reality awaits...

[Dark Horse]

When it comes to knowing police, I'll value Ralph's word over yours...considering he was actually a cop at one time...and I think his anecdote about Germany and other places outside the US rings true...you honestly think the US is the worst among first world nations when it comes to police brutality? I don't buy that for a second...

You are either speaking from belief, unsupported by fact, or you have researched the matter. In the latter case, name one first world nation with more police killings per capita. Just one.

[PaceAdvantage]

You are either speaking from belief, unsupported by fact, or you have researched the matter. In the latter case, name one first world nation with more police killings per capita.I'm speaking from common sense.

I'm sure you consider most if not all police killings to be brutality, even if they are justified in the eyes of the law, so there really is no use continuing to go down this road.

I'm sure you believe police shouldn't even carry guns...like England...where I'm sure the number of police killings per capita is dwarfed by the USA...

But justified self-defense by a cop that results in the death of the suspect does not equal police brutality in my book...does it in yours? Answer that question, and I'll know where we stand before we start.

[classhandicapper]

You are either speaking from belief, unsupported by fact, or you have researched the matter. In the latter case, name one first world nation with more police killings per capita. Just one.

I doubt there are any. However, I think that has more to do with cultural issues than the police.

IMO if you brought one of those other first world foreign police departments to the US, they'd either run home with their tail between their legs or start doing what was necessary to ensure they went home to their wives and children alive instead of in a box. Being exposed to the US "streets", would eventually lead to a more hardened attitude and the kinds of mistakes and accidents we've been witnessing.

The culture needs to be changed, but the way I see we are rapidly descending into an abyss instead of turning things around.

[Clocker]

You can't compare police shootings in the US directly with other counties without adjusting the numbers for armed criminals, which is also much higher in this country.

And you can't compare incarceration figures in the US directly with other countries without adjusting the numbers for the much stricter degree of criminalization of drugs in this country and for the stricter mandatory sentences here.

[Dark Horse]

I'm speaking from common sense.

I'm sure you consider most if not all police killings to be brutality, even if they are justified in the eyes of the law, so there really is no use continuing to go down this road.

I'm sure you believe police shouldn't even carry guns...like England...where I'm sure the number of police killings per capita is dwarfed by the USA...

How is it common sense to include two big assumptions? You're painting me into a corner. I'm not anti-police. Police is needed. I want them to serve and protect, and to hold their own accountable when they're crossing the line. Please just stick to the facts, or in this case the numbers.

But justified self-defense by a cop that results in the death of the suspect does not equal police brutality in my book...does it in yours? Answer that question, and I'll know where we stand before we start.

No, it does not. Justified self-defense is not police brutality.

When the trust is broken between public and police, there's a problem, isn't there? I can't speak for anybody else, and I've never had a problem with the police, but at this point, if a police car were to pull over my wife at night, I would advise her not to stop and instead drive straight to the next police station. Why? Because I no longer trust that an individual police officer will not be one of the bad apples. And the police allowed it to get to this level of distrust. Put differently, I am extremely disappointed with the police in this nation. For not holding themselves to a higher standard.

[TJDave]

Would it be a stretch to suggest that police brutality per nation follows roughly the same outline?

Yes, it would. Just because we incarcerate at almost double the rate of other 1st world nations doesn't mean we go about it brutally.

[Dark Horse]

Yes, it would. Just because we incarcerate at almost double the rate of other 1st world nations doesn't mean we go about it brutally.

Fair enough. Not likely, but certainly possible.

[TJDave]

The idea that police go out of their way to brutalize lawbreakers seems superfluous.

Why work that hard?

[Dark Horse]

The idea that police go out of their way to brutalize lawbreakers seems superfluous.

Why work that hard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcChufIuBHo

Just a pick from:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phoenix+police+shoot+unarmed+ suspect


Tasering to death: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+taser+people+to+death


All I'm saying is that there are people in police uniform who should never have been trusted with that responsibility. Unfortunately, to those who don't close their eyes to it, it reflects on all the good cops out there. Because the public has no way of knowing if a police officer is in control of himself or not.

[TJDave]

Because the public has no way of knowing if a police officer is in control of himself or not.

Which is why I treat every run-in with authority as delicately as possible. Why take a chance? At the very least it could save you a ticket.

[JustRalph]

You guys all made my points for me. Great responses.

I don't even need to respond. You guys are on the ball :ThmbUp:

You have to make adjustments for lots of things and you have to use common sense.

Btw, to get to where you would tell your wife to not stop and drive to the nearest police station is ridiculous. You've bought into some serious bullshit.

[JustRalph]

Because the public has no way of knowing if a police officer is in control of himself or not.

I guess you won't let your wife ride a bus, take a taxi or fly on an airline?

Because we have no way of knowing if the bus driver, Taxi driver or God forbid a pilot is in control of himself. There are a thousand scenarios every day where we rely on the other guy doing the right thing.

These risks are inherent in our long long history. We rely on implied social contracts every day. A policeman is the same way. Except a policeman goes through multiple phases of testing. Lie detectors. Drug tests. Mental evals. 80% of the applicants don't cut it. Taxi drivers, bus drivers etc go through similar things but nothing like what the police go through.

The most dangerous thing you can do in life is drive a car on a moderately busy two lane highway. One lane each direction. Every car that passes you going the opposite direction has agreed to the implied social contract that he will stay on his side of the yellow line. Sometimes they don't. To devastating effect. Your wife will do 200 things more dangerous than being pulled over by a cop, every day she leaves the house.

Don't buy into the crap.

[Dark Horse]

I gave it a personal twist, not because I fear for my life or my wife's, but because it's happening to others in this country, and making it personal is the alternative to ignoring the issue because it's not happening to 'white folks'. Call me crazy, but I just don't think cops should have the power to electrocute people on the spot. It's not even their fault that they have been given that power. But it's obviously wrong, and in my opinion criminal. If cops wish to restore the trust with the public, they're welcome to do so. But they can't assume to keep that trust and violate it simultaneously.

[Dark Horse]

Unfortunately, the continued spread of tasers among police officers most likely will worsen the relationship between public and police, because their use will result in unnecessary deaths, and an increasing segment of the public is not going to look the other way anymore.

Those tasers are a huge problem. And I'm cynical enough to wonder what corporate/political interest is behind their rapid distribution. The problem is that the threshold for their use is much lower than for a gunshot, but they can be just as deadly.

[JustRalph]

You are grossly misinformed about Tasers and police use of force

[Dark Horse]

One of us is misinformed. It could be me, but that would leave the question why so many people are tasered to death. Click on the above link with all the taser-caused deaths. I suggest to you that this is only the beginning, and that it is a mathematical certainty that these deaths will increase with the increased use of tasers. How do you think the people will respond? It's so predictable, one has to wonder if it is not yet another move on the dark political chessboard of our corrupt rulers.

Do not our dark rulers thrive on the game of divide-and-conquer? Militarize the police, and when the people protest or fight back, use that as excuse to militarize the police more. Already we have seen a Washington politician try to introduce a bill for a ten year jail sentence for ownership of a bulletproof vest. Forget about gun control, let's punish people for shielding themselves. Can it get more insane? Unfortunately, yes. For a number of years already people have been screened in the military for a willingness to open fire on Americans. Why would they do that? As isolated events these things don't mean that much. But when you put them together ...

Anyway, didn't mean to interrupt the scheduled programming. I fear for this country, but do not think for one moment that I live in fear. I believe in looking darkness straight in the eye, and that is why, from time to time, I examine these strange topics. There is no intent to insult the many good cops.

[JustRalph]

We covered Tasers around here many moons ago. Do a search. Btw, Tasers have been around forever. There can't be much increased use. Everybody has them.

Btw, in many states the public can buy them right off the shelf

The taser company has numbers etc too. You could look at them.

[Dark Horse]

We can either acknowledge that there is a problem, or act like everything's just fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-is-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0

[iceknight]

We can either acknowledge that there is a problem, or act like everything's just fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-is-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0I just saw this. Horrific how the officer actually goes back, retrieves something from where he stood initially and then comes back and drops it near the body- was that some sort of automatic CPR providing device that would have saved this man's life just by being dropped next to him?

The fact that even ONE police officer (a veteran from the US Coast Guard) acts like this, is too much and extremely painful. And this was the one case where it was caught on video and the video was not acquired by the same police by using any intimidation tactics.

[tucker6]

We can either acknowledge that there is a problem, or act like everything's just fine.

or maybe you have an irrational fear. Since 2001, the USA has averaged about 50 taser deaths per year. The number has been steady despite the increased purchase and use of tasers. Total tasers in play number 514,000. If we assume tasers are used a million times per year across the US (likely low), then we are talking about extremely low death rate compared to guns. By contrast, police officer deaths average 150 per year since 2001.

[Dark Horse]

I just saw this. Horrific how the officer actually goes back, retrieves something from where he stood initially and then comes back and drops it near the body- was that some sort of automatic CPR providing device that would have saved this man's life just by being dropped next to him?

The fact that even ONE police officer (a veteran from the US Coast Guard) acts like this, is too much and extremely painful. And this was the one case where it was caught on video and the video was not acquired by the same police by using any intimidation tactics.

Exactly. He would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been filmed. How many bad cops are really out there? Doesn't everybody else - public and good cops - deserve to know?

[Dark Horse]

or maybe you have an irrational fear. Since 2001, the USA has averaged about 50 taser deaths per year. The number has been steady despite the increased purchase and use of tasers. Total tasers in play number 514,000. If we assume tasers are used a million times per year across the US (likely low), then we are talking about extremely low death rate compared to guns. By contrast, police officer deaths average 150 per year since 2001.

What can I say? The cop in question, not knowing he was being filmed, shot the guy because he had allegedly taken his taser. So to this cop, in his twisted lie, the taser was life-threatening.

[Tom]

Exactly. He would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been filmed. How many bad cops are really out there? Doesn't everybody else - public and good cops - deserve to know?

While the shooting was obviously wrong, it was one incident and proves nothing either way.

Had guy nut run, he would be alive today.
How dead beat dads are out there?
Do we have the right to know?

This one thing proves nothing other than that cop over-reacted for sure.

[TJDave]

Exactly. He would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been filmed.

How so? He shot the guy in the back. How would you defend that?

[Dark Horse]

How so? He shot the guy in the back. How would you defend that?

You know, you could try reading the article.

[PaceAdvantage]

Exactly. He would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been filmed. How many bad cops are really out there? Doesn't everybody else - public and good cops - deserve to know?There are BAD PEOPLE everywhere...there is NOTHING you can do about it. NOTHING.

NOTHING anyone can do about it...EVER...

It's a fact of life.

Priests and teachers will molest children, and cops will murder people.

Thankfully, it doesn't happen all that often. But it will ALWAYS happen.

I don't get the shock...do you leave in a candy house and look up at marshmallow skies?

[Dark Horse]

I don't get the shock...do you leave in a candy house and look up at marshmallow skies?


If you truly have convinced yourself that this is normal, at least compare it to other first world nations, or any nation at all.

Here's a headline: US POLICE KILL MORE CIVILIANS IN MARCH THAN UK POLICE KILLED IN 100 YEARS

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Police_Kill_More_Civilians_In_March_Than_UK_Pol ice_Killed_In_100_Years/43294/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Just the cost of doing business, right?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-free-speech-racial-justice/over-100-people-were-killed-police-march-have-po

[tucker6]

If you truly have convinced yourself that this is normal, at least compare it to other first world nations, or any nation at all.

Here's a headline: US POLICE KILL MORE CIVILIANS IN MARCH THAN UK POLICE KILLED IN 100 YEARS

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Police_Kill_More_Civilians_In_March_Than_UK_Pol ice_Killed_In_100_Years/43294/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Just the cost of doing business, right?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-free-speech-racial-justice/over-100-people-were-killed-police-march-have-po
That's not what he said, but nice try in reframing his post.

You cannot compare one society to the next. They each have significant cultural differences with regard to taboos on crime, guns, etc. No matter what though, you'd still have the Norwegian killer or the Paris Bombings or the airplane flying into a mountain because those people exist everywhere in small numbers and cannot be eradicated from this earth. That is what PA is trying to tell you. :faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

If you truly have convinced yourself that this is normal, at least compare it to other first world nations, or any nation at all.

Here's a headline: US POLICE KILL MORE CIVILIANS IN MARCH THAN UK POLICE KILLED IN 100 YEARS

http://www.blacklistednews.com/US_Police_Kill_More_Civilians_In_March_Than_UK_Pol ice_Killed_In_100_Years/43294/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Just the cost of doing business, right?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-free-speech-racial-justice/over-100-people-were-killed-police-march-have-poHow many of those killed by US police were classified as unjustified?

[Robert Fischer]

It's good that we are finally considering things like police-worn cameras, and mandatory use of these cameras on person and vehicle.

Cameras everywhere. Cameras are on you and me when we hit the highway, at the department store, at the atm, the grocery store, everywhere! Big brother has us on video for hours, each week.

It's clear that using cameras is both a necessary and cost-effective part of doing business.

Yet we hear constant excuses regarding necessity and cost effectiveness when it comes to our police-citizen interaction. :D

[iceknight]

There are BAD PEOPLE everywhere...there is NOTHING you can do about it. NOTHING.

NOTHING anyone can do about it...EVER...

It's a fact of life.

A) Priests and teachers will molest children, and B) cops will murder people.

Thankfully, it doesn't happen all that often. But it will ALWAYS happen.

I don't get the shock...do you leave in a candy house and look up at marshmallow skies?i didnt expect this from you.
Most of the time: A) - they are arrested, charged, put on trial- and if proved with evidence --> punished.

B) internal affairs review. if there is massive public outcry and if independent public video exists PROVING that the officer's report is contradictory with actual on scene happening - then some charges are filed.

I don't want more police being captured on camera doing illegal things. I just want them to do what is correct and not tampering with evidence. In this case, the attending cop#2, did not even question the first one on what was being dropped. If a common person were to do that in the presence of any LEO they would be prompt to note that.
In other words, we don't want bad people teaming up and maintaining silence because of some "brotherhood".

[Tom]

So what is the problem here?
The cop in Ferguson was found to have made a good shoot, multiple times, and this you was fired and arrested.

So what is the whine about?
Two spotlight cases and the system worked both times.

[PaceAdvantage]

i didnt expect this from you.
Most of the time: A) - they are arrested, charged, put on trial- and if proved with evidence --> punished.

B) internal affairs review. if there is massive public outcry and if independent public video exists PROVING that the officer's report is contradictory with actual on scene happening - then some charges are filed.

I don't want more police being captured on camera doing illegal things. I just want them to do what is correct and not tampering with evidence. In this case, the attending cop#2, did not even question the first one on what was being dropped. If a common person were to do that in the presence of any LEO they would be prompt to note that.
In other words, we don't want bad people teaming up and maintaining silence because of some "brotherhood".Surprised that I am being a realist?

Hey, the higher ups in the Catholic church covered for their "brotherhood," did they not?

What I state is the cold hard facts, be it cops or any other group with some power.

That includes criminals...the Mafia...street gangs...you name it...

You can't hide from life.

[iceknight]

Surprised that I am being a realist?

Hey, the higher ups in the Catholic church covered for their "brotherhood," did they not?

What I state is the cold hard facts, be it cops or any other group with some power.

That includes criminals...the Mafia...street gangs...you name it...

You can't hide from life.im not hiding from life. No one else has carteblance executionary powers Like cops have. Not just USA. India, Brazil, Russia being other places that come to my mind. The church didn't have that power.

[Spiderman]

White officer now faces felony charge for fatally shooting a black man in his driveway
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/08/south-carolina-cop-now-faces-felony-charge-for-fatally-shooting-a-black-man-in-his-driveway/

Trending in SC Cop culture.

[thaskalos]

It's good that we are finally considering things like police-worn cameras, and mandatory use of these cameras on person and vehicle.

Cameras everywhere. Cameras are on you and me when we hit the highway, at the department store, at the atm, the grocery store, everywhere! Big brother has us on video for hours, each week.

It's clear that using cameras is both a necessary and cost-effective part of doing business.

Yet we hear constant excuses regarding necessity and cost effectiveness when it comes to our police-citizen interaction. :D
I couldn't agree more. Cameras on every cop, and every interaction with the citizens had better be filmed...or the case gets thrown out of court.

[JustRalph]

I couldn't agree more. Cameras on every cop, and every interaction with the citizens had better be filmed...or the case gets thrown out of court.


There are 250,000 police contacts a day. This goofball in SC is an anomaly.

You guys screaming that cops are out of control are buying into a bullshit meme ginned up by the media.

Btw, I'm for body cameras. They will reveal more about the criminals than the cops.

[Dark Horse]

Surprised that I am being a realist?

You can't hide from life.

Reality depends on varying degrees of clarity of perception, doesn't it?

As we used to say back in LA: "If you can't see the smog, you're in it."

[thaskalos]

There are 250,000 police contacts a day. This goofball in SC is an anomaly.

You guys screaming that cops are out of control are buying into a bullshit meme ginned up by the media.

Btw, I'm for body cameras. They will reveal more about the criminals than the cops.
I respectfully disagree, Ralph. I am the most laid-back guy that you are ever likely to find...and I am never quick to label a guy in a negative way. My own first cousin is a Chicago cop, and, through him, and through the experiences of my everyday life...I have come into contact with plenty of policemen...many more than the average guy is likely to encounter. And I remain unimpressed with plenty of them...character-wise.

From what I've seen, many don't have the "Protect and Serve" attitude...and I definitely feel that they should be watched.

[Robert Fischer]

I like Thaskalos' extension.

I don't think a label (such as 'out of control') is necessary to bring cameras into the police-citizen interactions.

It should simply be a part of doing business.


Cops are just a segment of the population IMO. Whether you view them as heroes or cowards or just average joes, doesn't really make a bit of difference in the point about cameras.

A police-citizen interaction is basically a business interaction.
The significance of these interactions is such, that in no other realm of business interaction would we allow such significant interactions to be on the "honor system" and then documented by a single party with such an imbalanced power-dynamic.

[PaceAdvantage]

I respectfully disagree, Ralph. I am the most laid-back guy that you are ever likely to find...and I am never quick to label a guy in a negative way. My own first cousin is a Chicago cop, and, through him, and through the experiences of my everyday life...I have come into contact with plenty of policemen...many more than the average guy is likely to encounter. And I remain unimpressed with plenty of them...character-wise.

From what I've seen, many don't have the "Protect and Serve" attitude...and I definitely feel that they should be watched.There's a reason for this.

Because, unlike the average guy you mention above, cops come into contact with TONS more of the scumbag, criminal element/predator that roams the streets of the major urban areas of this country...and when you're exposed to that on a day-in, day-out basis, the protect and serve mantra takes a subtle shift to the "do whatever it takes to go home alive at the end of my shift."

Not defending any obvious cases of police brutality and injustice...just sayin' what is the reality.

[JustRalph]

I respectfully disagree, Ralph. I am the most laid-back guy that you are ever likely to find...and I am never quick to label a guy in a negative way. My own first cousin is a Chicago cop, and, through him, and through the experiences of my everyday life...I have come into contact with plenty of policemen...many more than the average guy is likely to encounter. And I remain unimpressed with plenty of them...character-wise.

From what I've seen, many don't have the "Protect and Serve" attitude...and I definitely feel that they should be watched.

I'm going to try and be delicate here. Using Chicago cops as a point of reference is a problem. And quite possibly why your view is a little skewed. Every single person I ever encountered from Chicago while working offered me a 20 or 50 dollar bill right out of the gate. These were all traffic stops over a 15 yr period. One of them even explained to me that $20 was for side street violations. $50 for the freeway. The only other place I've ever heard of that was worse, New Orleans.

I've worked for police departments in three different states. They all have three guiding principals.

They are only as good as their leadership- Culture matters over time

The pay matters. You get what you pay for.

Politicians who control the purse strings, control the police.