Big Solar

[hcap]

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2015/02/apple_kaiser_permanente_solar_investments_renewabl e_energy_is_finally_a.html

Renewable energy finally makes sense as a utility—and that’s why it’s becoming a threat to coal.

The scale of solar and wind has grown to the point where these renewables can compete on or near equal footing with other sources of power.

.....Take last week’s announcement that Apple will spend $850 million to purchase 130 megawatts of capacity from the First Solar California Flats Solar Project for 25 years. This is a step up for Apple, which had developed much smaller solar power plants in North Carolina and other states to power its data centers. As developer First Solar notes, this is the “industry’s largest commercial power deal.” Armed with an agreement from Apple, First Solar will build a 280 megawatt power plant on a large plot of land in Monterey County. It will sell nearly half the output to Apple and the rest to California utility Pacific Gas & Electric. Apple says the supply will be sufficient to run its stores and other operations in the state, allowing it to achieve carbon neutrality in California.

[tucker6]

"Renewable energy finally makes sense as a utility—and that’s why it’s becoming a threat to coal.

The scale of solar and wind has grown to the point where these renewable energies can compete on or near equal footing with other sources of power."


Where is these statement true?

[hcap]

Read it

[Tom]

Where is these statement true?

In his mind. :lol:

[reckless]

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2015/02/apple_kaiser_permanente_solar_investments_renewabl e_energy_is_finally_a.html

Renewable energy finally makes sense as a utility—and that's why it’s becoming a threat to coal.

The true threat to the coal and the fossil fuel industries here is the current US government under the auspices of the unpatriotic and pro-Islamo terrorist, Barack Hussein Obama, and his brown shirt thugs in the EPA.

[classhandicapper]

If these renewable energies get to the point where they actually can compete on equal economic footing WITHOUT TAX OR OTHER GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES then I am all for them replacing coal, oil, nuke etc...

As far as I know they still can't. There's always some other kind of incentive in place in the chain. If that has changed, it's good news, but I don't see any hard evidence of that.

It's an inefficient use of tax dollars to further enrich corporations and political friends to make bad investments using our tax dollars. Even when you get something good out of it, you have to consider the good that would have come out of using that money elsewhere and compare the two.

Private capital should be used to do the R&D. When they finally come up with something that makes sense on a large scale, they will get rich on the merits for doing it.

[tucker6]

If these renewable energies get to the point where they actually can compete on equal economic footing WITHOUT TAX OR OTHER GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES then I am all for them replacing coal, oil, nuke etc...

As far as I know they still can't. There's always some other kind of incentive in place in the chain. If that has changed, it's good news, but I don't see any hard evidence of that.

It's an inefficient use of tax dollars to further enrich corporations and political friends to make bad investments using our tax dollars. Even when you get something good out of it, you have to consider the good that would have come out of using that money elsewhere and compare the two.

Private capital should be used to do the R&D. When they finally come up with something that makes sense on a large scale, they will get rich on the merits for doing it.
Your post starts and ends at the first word: IF

[FantasticDan]

The true threat to the coal and the fossil fuel industries here is the current US government under the auspices of the unpatriotic and pro-Islamo terrorist, Barack Hussein Obama, and his brown shirt thugs in the EPA.bt8g-PGkZ0Y

[tucker6]

bt8g-PGkZ0Y
linking partisan political funnies and youtube videos into EVERY post is not a substitute for actual human discourse.

[FantasticDan]

linking partisan political funnies and youtube videos into EVERY post is not a substitute for actual human discourse.Said the guy who called me "human excrement" for no reason whatsoever. :D :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

He is the video version of H4C.
They are being all they can be.

[FantasticDan]

Yeah, if there's two things this place needs less of it's partisan funnies and youtube videos. Let's try and keep the human discourse as "actual" as possible, getting back to our discussion about how the pro-terrorist President and his brown shirts are threatening fossil fuels :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

If these renewable energies get to the point where they actually can compete on equal economic footing WITHOUT TAX OR OTHER GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES then I am all for them replacing coal, oil, nuke etc...

The "Big Solar" deal discussed in the OP happened in California. The California Public Utilities Commission has mandated that all regulated utilities procure one-third of their power from renewable resources by 2020.

[tucker6]

Said the guy who called me "human excrement" for no reason whatsoever. :D :ThmbUp:
where?? I don't post like that.

[Greyfox]

Reminder Memo to Self : Do not buy shares in Apple.

[davew]

That is big, I wonder how many $$$$$ in tax credits they earned.

[Clocker]

The Ivanpah Solar Electric plant in the OP link is running way below capacity and is using much more supplemental natural gas than forecast. And they are looking for more federal subsidy:

However, after receiving a controversial tax-payer funded $1.6 billion loan under the U.S. Department of Energy’s Loan Guarantee Program, Ivanpah investors, NRG Energy, Google and BrightSource Energy, now want a $539 million federal grant to pay off their federal loan.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/11/11/thermal-solar-energy-some-technologies-really-are-dumb/

[FantasticDan]

where?? I don't post like that
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116103&page=53

[tucker6]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116103&page=53
I stand corrected! :D

Still wasn't as insulting as my post after that one. ;)

[FantasticDan]

I stand corrected! :D
Still wasn't as insulting as my post after that one. ;)Hey, we all have bad days.. or good days, as the case may be :cool:

[rastajenk]

At least he called you human excrement. He coulda gone for one of the sub-human varieties. :ThmbUp:

[sandpit]

Hey, if this Big Solar thing is true, you can thank global warming for creating the anticipated historic drought in the West that cleared the path for countless sunny days to fuel the solar power plants.

Ergo, global warming is creating jobs and helping the economy :D:jump:

[Clocker]

Hey, if this Big Solar thing is true, you can thank global warming for creating the anticipated historic drought in the West that cleared the path for countless sunny days to fuel the solar power plants.

Ergo, global warming is creating jobs and helping the economy :D:jump:

Despite what all the "settled science" gurus say, it is not true. The output is way below projections because the sun isn't shining on the desert. :eek:

From the article linked in my previous post:

The largest solar energy facility in the world is already irrelevant and has cost a lot more to construct than any other form of energy. The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is a 5-square-mile, 392 MW array that cost $2.2 billion. It is located in the Mojave Desert, where the Sun always shines, and is supposed to produce a billion kWhs per year for 25 years.

But there’s a problem – the Sun does not seem to be cooperating. A spokesman for NRG Energy blamed the weather, saying the Sun didn’t perform as predicted.

Instead of a billion kWhs of electricity, this year Ivanpah will produce less than 0.4 billion kWhrs, making its capacity factor only 12%, not the 30% advertised. And certainly not the 90% of base load generators like nuclear power.

[Tom]

The new federal nutritional guideline take GW into account.
They forsake our health by advising less meat because it hurt the environment.

It's official - people are bloody idiots.
This government deserves zero respect or support.
Liberalism is a deadly disease.
We must find a cure for it.
Step one - limit their travel.

[Clocker]

Liberalism is a deadly disease.
We must find a cure for it.
Step one - limit their travel.

Maybe free birth control isn't such a bad idea after all. Liberals seem to be the only ones that can't figure it out for themselves. It would be a small price to pay to keep the population growth of the herd under control.

[HUSKER55]

On fox news a while back some physist figured out a way to get solar panels into to 30% - 40% efficiency area. That dropped pay back down from 8+ years to less than 3 years.

Here in Wisconsin the local untility said that each windmill supports 40,000 homes for the year.

It is getting closer but those upgrades are not going to be cheap. I see more and more companies starting to put up wind generators and "fields of panels" so there must be a payback somewhere.

Those systems are not cheap.

[tucker6]

Despite what all the "settled science" gurus say, it is not true. The output is way below projections because the sun isn't shining on the desert. :eek:

From the article linked in my previous post:
well, since we know that it isn't any less sunny (Mojave has one of the highest sunshine rates in the world), then are they saying that the solar panels are 40% of expected efficiency? Sounds like they BS'd the govt/investors into paying for this project without being truthful.

[rastajenk]

Sounds like your typical casino promises.

[HUSKER55]

http://www.natcoresolar.com/


found the link to my earlier post.

[Red Knave]

well, since we know that it isn't any less sunny then are they saying that the solar panels are 40% of expected efficiency?
These are not photovoltaic panels. This technology is different. It uses mirrors to focus the sun to heat water to boiling, generate steam and then send the steam to turbines to generate electricity.