"What ISIS really wants"

[Clocker]

There is a very good article in the Atlantic laying out the development and actions of ISIS. It shows that ISIS is indeed based on teachings of the Koran, and that what they are doing is what many true believers have done since the time of Mohammed. It also shows the differences between ISIS and many other branches of Islam today. And that our government appears to be clueless about what ISIS is and what their goals are.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[Greyfox]

There is a very good article in the Atlantic laying out the development and actions of ISIS. It shows that ISIS is indeed based on teachings of the Koran, and that what they are doing is what many true believers have done since the time of Mohammed. It also shows the differences between ISIS and many other branches of Islam today. And that our government appears to be clueless about what ISIS is and what their goals are.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Good post.:ThmbUp:
Obama today proclaimed that religion has nothing to do with terrorism.
The U.S. has a major problem with a President who is so willfully blind.

[Spiderman]

ISIS members are psychopaths. They distort and use religion for self-serving purpose.

[Clocker]

ISIS members are psychopaths. They distort and use religion for self-serving purpose.

If you read the article you will find that most are anything but psychopaths. The author's research led him to Princeton professor Bernard Haykel as the leading expert in this country on the group’s theology.

According to Haykel, the ranks of the Islamic State are deeply infused with religious vigor. Koranic quotations are ubiquitous. “Even the foot soldiers spout this stuff constantly,” Haykel said. “They mug for their cameras and repeat their basic doctrines in formulaic fashion, and they do it all the time.” He regards the claim that the Islamic State has distorted the texts of Islam as preposterous, sustainable only through willful ignorance. “People want to absolve Islam,” he said. “It’s this ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ mantra. As if there is such a thing as ‘Islam’! It’s what Muslims do, and how they interpret their texts.” Those texts are shared by all Sunni Muslims, not just the Islamic State. “And these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else.”

All Muslims acknowledge that Muhammad’s earliest conquests were not tidy affairs, and that the laws of war passed down in the Koran and in the narrations of the Prophet’s rule were calibrated to fit a turbulent and violent time. In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”

[classhandicapper]

The U.S. has a major problem with a President who is so willfully blind.

This is the issue with liberals (or one of their many mental illnesses if you prefer).

Obama understands what's going on. In his mind, he is taking the moral high rode by judging people as individuals instead of grouping them (in this case by religion). Since there have been some terrorists that were motivated by religion (including religions other than Islam), some motivated by all types of politics where religion had nothing to do with it etc... there is no single profile of "extremist" or "terrorist". So in his view, if you associate terrorism with Islam you are doing an injustice to all the peace loving Muslims in the world and possibly insulting them.

This is the idealistic view of the world where we don't profile and are very sensitive to the feelings of others. It sounds all warm and fuzzy. Heck, I wish that was the world I lived in.

The REALITY is the cold hard data and statistics that help you determine the probability of a person being a terrorist and why. That data tells everyone with a functioning brain that there's a worldwide problem inside Islam unlike other religions.

These are not random acts by individuals with mental health issues like we see from time to time in the US and elsewhere.

This is not some hate group with 50-100 mixed up disenfranchised kids that have been having a tough time.

This is x% of a population of over a billion people where x% is large enough to mean that there are at least 10s of millions of them. They are motivated by an interpretation of their religion that requires them to engage in aggressive and barbaric behavior.

While we argue about gay marriage, they argue about the merits of stoning vs. crucifixion vs. beheading. They are at least 1000 years behind the civilized world.

In the twisted mind of the liberal, we are not allowed to look at data like this because it might suggest patterns that don't fit the left wing delusions and narrative about people. God forbid we do look at that data and learn something that could help us protect ourselves, we are not allowed to use it.

The mentally ill liberal would prefer that we live in denial and tolerate a world where there is a greater probability of crime, terrorism, mayhem, political upheaval, barbaric behavior, economic volatility, and death in the name of an ideal that is false when there is data and information readily available that can help us. Most sensible Muslims would want that data to be used in their OWN best interests, but not the twisted liberal.

Right after 9/11 I went to Vegas. I am short, had a darker than average skin color, and a beard. In the airport of was stopped, frisked etc... There is no doubt in my mind I was profiled. Did I care? Hell NO! I was freaking happy as a pig in shit. What's a 5 minute inconvenience to enhance my comfort that some dickhead wasn't going to be on the plane with me?

How can you fix something when you can't even admit there's a problem because it doesn't fit your world view?

[Marshall Bennett]

Very interesting article. I couldn't help but come away from reading it, however, with a sense of the author being somewhat sympathetic towards the Islamic state. Don't ask me in particular reasons why, it's just my sense in how he projects and defines Islam belief.

[Show Me the Wire]

From Isis' magazine and opinion by By Peter Bergen, CNN National Security Analyst http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/opinion/bergen-isis-enemies/index.html


A key window into understanding ISIS is its English language "in-flight magazine" Dabiq. Last week the seventh issue of Dabiq was released, and a close reading of it helps explains ISIS' world view.

The mistake some make when viewing ISIS is to see it as a rational actor. Instead, as the magazine documents, its ideology is that of an apocalyptic cult that believes that we are living in the end times and that ISIS' actions are hastening the moment when this will happen.


The name of the Dabiq magazine itself helps us understand ISIS' worldview. The Syrian town of Dabiq is where the Prophet Mohammed is supposed to have predicted that the armies of Islam and "Rome" would meet for the final battle that will precede the end of time and the triumph of true Islam.

[horses4courses]

Reading the article gives me an overwhelming
feeling that we planted the seeds ourselves.

This group has been growing since our most recent foray into Iraq.

[Show Me the Wire]

Reading the article gives me an overwhelming
feeling that we planted the seeds ourselves.

This group has been growing since our most recent foray into Iraq.

What seed, Islam? We had nothing to do with creating the religion of Islam and it end of days teachings. The U.S. did not even exist when the prophet began his teachings.

If you are saying Western involvement inspired these crazies to believe the apocalypse began, maybe. However, the West is not responsible for crazy interpretations by Muslims.

[horses4courses]

What seed, Islam? We had nothing to do with creating the religion of Islam. The U.S. did not even exist when the prophet began his teachings.

This is much different than just Islam....this evolved recently.
After 9/11, and after we invaded Iraq. ISIS did not exist before that.

[Show Me the Wire]

This is much different than just Islam....this evolved recently.
After 9/11, and after we invaded Iraq. ISIS did not exist before that.


It is all about Islam and its prophecy of the apocalypse per Sunni beliefs.

[Show Me the Wire]

Another tidbit from the Isis magazine:


"[T]he sword will continue to be drawn, raised, and swung until 'Isa (Jesus — peace be upon him) kills the Dajjal (theAntichrist and abolishes the jizyah [poll tax]," the article states. "Thereafter, kufr and its tyranny will be destroyed; Islam and its justice will prevail on the entire Earth. ... But until then, parties of kafirin will continue to be struck down by the unsheathed sword of Islam."

Isis' actions have everything to do with Sunni interpretation of Islamic prophecies.

[horses4courses]

Another tidbit from the Isis magazine:



Isis' actions have everything to do with Sunni interpretation of Islamic prophecies.

You can't see the wood from the trees.

I am not questioning what they claim their beliefs
and organization are based on. For me, that matters
little, as it's all a facade. These butchers are not human.

What I am questioning is the motivation for such
appalling extremism, and the answer is obvious.

[rastajenk]

I thought Harfie told us just this week that what ISIS wants is jobs. And Hillary says they deserve our empathy, or sympathy, or something like that.

[Clocker]

Very interesting article. I couldn't help but come away from reading it, however, with a sense of the author being somewhat sympathetic towards the Islamic state. Don't ask me in particular reasons why, it's just my sense in how he projects and defines Islam belief.

He is certainly sympathetic toward the people he talked to, but they are not the ones killing people. I think he objectively portrays the fact that the people in ISIS genuinely believe that they are doing what the Koran calls for, but that he goes too far to avoid the details of the violence and tries too hard to be non-judgmental about it. There is no emotion in the telling, which we would normally expect, but at the same time it does convey that those in ISIS see what they are doing as an accepted and expected part of their religion.

[Clocker]

I thought Harfie told us just this week that what ISIS wants is jobs.

They do want jobs. In a caliphate operating under Sharia law.

[snickster]

Guess what - Mohammed was a ruthless warrior ruler who beheaded people, killed all the men folk and took the women as sex slaves. He was no jesus Christ who preached peace love and forgiveness. He took the bible - plaigerized it to suit his needs and created the Koran. How can a ruthless warrior ruler be a prophet of god. Only in his own mind. ISIS is following in the true footsteps of Mohammed.

[Show Me the Wire]

You can't see the wood from the trees.

I am not questioning what they claim their beliefs
and organization are based on. For me, that matters
little, as it's all a facade. These butchers are not human.

What I am questioning is the motivation for such
appalling extremism, and the answer is obvious.

I can see the forest, it is you who has your head in the sand. Isis is waging a religious war to usher in the end times, so Islam will have its new Golden Age. These people are believers, who misinterpreted the times.

[JustRalph]

Glenn Beck, who I think has gone nuts btw, was preaching this was going to happen on his CNN show many many years ago.

H4C blames all the evil in the world on our own country.

My wife has a colleague who is a 25 yr escaped woman from the Middle East. She says pretty much the same as the article linked above. She says since she was a child she was taught the same. She "was" a Sunni but calls herself "Americanized" now and hasn't been back for over 10 yrs.

[Clocker]

Guess what - Mohammed was a ruthless warrior ruler who beheaded people, killed all the men folk and took the women as sex slaves.

I think that most people here understand that. The problem is that many, especially in the current administration don't know that, or won't admit it, and they try to paint ISIS as a corruption or perversion of the peaceful religion of Islam. It isn't. It is a fundamentalist belief in the literal words of their holy book.

[FantasticDan]

I think that most people here understand that. The problem is that many, especially in the current administration don't know that, or won't admit it, and they try to paint ISIS as a corruption or perversion of the peaceful religion of Islam.Bush said the same thing about extremists/terrorists. So did Clinton.

What you need to do is increase your daily calls to the White House until you finally get someone's attention..

"Barry! Hey Barry! This guy on Line 3's got it all figured out!" :ThmbUp: :D

[Greyfox]

It is a fundamentalist belief in the literal words of their holy book.

Exactly! :ThmbUp:....and Obama doesn't get that.

[Clocker]

Well, I guess we just didn't give Obama enough credit. He does have a firm grasp on the situation, and is taking strong steps to degrade ISIS. From an opinion piece he wrote for the LA Times:

We know that military force alone cannot solve this problem. Nor can we simply take out terrorists who kill innocent civilians. We also have to confront the violent extremists — the propagandists, recruiters and enablers — who may not directly engage in terrorist acts themselves, but who radicalize, recruit and incite others to do so.

This week, we'll take an important step forward as governments, civil society groups and community leaders from more than 60 nations gather in Washington for a global summit on countering violent extremism. Our focus will be on empowering local communities.

Only an experienced and expert community organizer like our president could have the wisdom and insight to home in on the critical need to empower local communities in the US to stop ISIS in Iraq. That's why this man is in the White House, and that's why he got the Nobel Peace Prize.

And he continues his proven methods of relying heavily on the private sector to solve problems:

We can help Muslim entrepreneurs and youths work with the private sector to develop social media tools to counter extremist narratives on the Internet.

Right on Barry, hit them where it hurts. If you grab them by the narrative, their hearts and minds will follow. Those guys must be quaking in their boots over there.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-obama-terrorism-conference-20150218-story.html

[Clocker]

Bush said the same thing about extremists/terrorists. So did Clinton.


Oh, Bush was wrong. And Clinton was wrong. So that excuses the fact that Obama is flat out wrong?

Obama is supposedly the smartest president in history, and he has a lot more experience in the Muslim world than any 10 presidents combined. So maybe he should have been expected to be a little smarter than that idiot Bush and that womanizer Clinton? Maybe Obama could have figured out that those guys were wrong because what they were doing wasn't working, and he could have done something different?

Repeating the same policy while expecting a different outcome may not be a sign of insanity, but it is sure a sign of stupidity.

[Clocker]

Exactly! :ThmbUp:....and Obama doesn't get that.

But the man was brilliant when he warned about folks clinging to their guns and religion. :p

[Tom]

Bush said the same thing about extremists/terrorists. So did Clinton.

What you need to do is increase your daily calls to the White House until you finally get someone's attention..

"Barry! Hey Barry! This guy on Line 3's got it all figured out!" :ThmbUp: :D

The current threat is so much greater today, surely you can't be trying to compare ISIS to what they faced back then?

[horses4courses]

[QUOTE=JustRalph] H4C blames all the evil in the world on our own country.[QUOTE]

Yet another falsehood on your part.

We have made plenty of mistakes, though.

[classhandicapper]

Obama, Bush, and Clinton know exactly what's going on. They aren't wrong. They are afraid to tell the truth because of politically correct claptrap and balderdash!

They are so afraid of the theoretical possibility that telling the truth will lead some people to unjustifiably hate all Muslims (and all that brings), that they live with the REALITY of people being beheaded, burned alive, stoned, shot for their religion/speech, and all sorts of other barbaric actions against people and governments. Heck, they even invite more of them to our shores after they've blown up parades, flown planes into our buildings etc... They pretend it will all go away if we just give them a hug and a big wet kiss.

Our leadership (the entire west) has its priorities backwards.

Their first duty to is protect their citizens. They can worry about who they offend at a later date.

[davew]

Obama, Bush, and Clinton know exactly what's going on. They aren't wrong. They are afraid to tell the truth because of politically correct claptrap and balderdash!

They are so afraid of the theoretical possibility that telling the truth will lead some people to unjustifiably hate all Muslims (and all that brings), that they live with the REALITY of people being beheaded, burned alive, stoned, shot for their religion/speech, and all sorts of other barbaric actions against people and governments. Heck, they even invite more of them to our shores after they've blown up parades, flown planes into our buildings etc... They pretend it will all go away if we just give them a hug and a big wet kiss.

Our leadership (the entire west) has its priorities backwards.

Their first duty to is protect their citizens. They can worry about who they offend at a later date.

Yes, they are most transparent administration ever. They do add some political spin - so much that what they end up saying makes them sound like idiots.

[Spiderman]

Additional insight on the ME situation can be culled from an interview with Mike Morell, former deputy at CIA. http://www.charlierose.com/

Another interview with an Egyptian department of state spokesperson was aired on PBS, last night, but not yet available on same website.

The article from The Atlantic Monthly provided testimony to the distorted views of ISIS. Several of the previous posts in this thread have acknowledged that they are aware of the dangers in dealing with the warped ideology.

The article has also mentioned the differences between different sects of Islam, primarily Shiite and Sunni, but there are also tribal disputes. The nations of Saudi Arabia and Turkey must fully engage in the war effort against ISIS. When I have the time, I can copy/paste those segments of article which support the need for full engagement by Arab nations.

As I see it, the US should arm and provide strategic and tactical to this fight. This is not a war that would be won by taking over territory and the losers go to internment camps. These cruel and evil bestards will play whack-a-mole and pop-up when least expected. Homeland defense should be secured; international cooperation and sharing of intelligence should be coordinated to stymie any attempt of the ISIS virus spreading.

[Clocker]

Yesterday, Obama gave the keynote speech for his Countering Violent Extremism Summit. After a long explanation of why ISIS and Al Qaeda are perversions of the peaceful religion of Islam, he got down to the purpose of the summit meeting.

But we are here at this summit because of the urgent threat from groups like al Qaeda and ISIL. And this week we are focused on prevention -- preventing these groups from radicalizing, recruiting or inspiring others to violence in the first place.

He then listed the four steps necessary to stop them. First, "we've got to discredit these ideologies."

Second, we have to "address the grievances that terrorists exploit, including economic grievances."

Third, we have to address "the political grievances that are exploited by terrorists. When governments oppress their people, deny human rights, stifle dissent, or marginalize ethnic and religious groups, or favor certain religious groups over others, it sows the seeds of extremism and violence."

Fourth, we have to "recognize that our best partners in all these efforts, the best people to help protect individuals from falling victim to extremist ideologies are their own communities, their own family members." And we have to do this, he say, through cyberspace and social media, because that's where the bad guys "deliberately target their propaganda in the hopes of reaching and brainwashing young Muslims, especially those who may be disillusioned or wrestling with their identity."

Looks everything is under control.

Text of speech: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/18/remarks-president-closing-summit-countering-violent-extremism

[DJofSD]

This is the issue with liberals (or one of their many mental illnesses if you prefer).

Obama understands what's going on. In his mind, he is taking the moral high rode by judging people as individuals instead of grouping them (in this case by religion). Since there have been some terrorists that were motivated by religion (including religions other than Islam), some motivated by all types of politics where religion had nothing to do with it etc... there is no single profile of "extremist" or "terrorist". So in his view, if you associate terrorism with Islam you are doing an injustice to all the peace loving Muslims in the world and possibly insulting them.

This is the idealistic view of the world where we don't profile and are very sensitive to the feelings of others. It sounds all warm and fuzzy. Heck, I wish that was the world I lived in.

...

In the twisted mind of the liberal, we are not allowed to look at data like this because it might suggest patterns that don't fit the left wing delusions and narrative about people. God forbid we do look at that data and learn something that could help us protect ourselves, we are not allowed to use it.

The mentally ill liberal would prefer that we live in denial and tolerate a world where there is a greater probability of crime, terrorism, mayhem, political upheaval, barbaric behavior, economic volatility, and death in the name of an ideal that is false when there is data and information readily available that can help us. Most sensible Muslims would want that data to be used in their OWN best interests, but not the twisted liberal.


What ever happened to the idealistic position of the separation of church and state? I ask this because it seems to me what Obama and the rest of the ideologists are doing is promoting a religious tenet.

I'm sure Obama would like to see himself as the Balian de Ibelin from the movie "Kingdom of Heaven." And some of us are thinking the same thing as Sibylla: "There'll be a day when you will wish you had done a little evil to do a greater good."

Show me where in the oath of office Obama's obligated to the the moral high ground.

[classhandicapper]

First, "we've got to discredit these ideologies."

Second, we have to "address the grievances that terrorists exploit, including economic grievances."

Third, we have to address "the political grievances that are exploited by terrorists. When governments oppress their people, deny human rights, stifle dissent, or marginalize ethnic and religious groups, or favor certain religious groups over others, it sows the seeds of extremism and violence."

Fourth, we have to "recognize that our best partners in all these efforts, the best people to help protect individuals from falling victim to extremist ideologies are their own communities, their own family members." And we have to do this, he say, through cyberspace and social media, because that's where the bad guys "deliberately target their propaganda in the hopes of reaching and brainwashing young Muslims, especially those who may be disillusioned or wrestling with their identity."

Looks everything is under control.

Text of speech: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/18/remarks-president-closing-summit-countering-violent-extremism

5. We have to prevent them from immigrating to western democracies and creating havoc among us.

6. We have to deport or arrest anyone here that is supporting any of these extremist violent groups

7. We have to punish their aggressions against democracies with STRONG military and economic responses

8. We have to stay out of the hornet's nest as much as possible when we have no business there

[classhandicapper]

Show me where in the oath of office Obama's obligated to the the moral high ground.

I have no problem with taking the high moral ground. I think that's a good guiding principle. But it should based on a realistic understanding of the world we live in and not an idealistic delusion.

Here are some recent tweets from Garry Kasparov.

"I actually have more respect for Chamberlain now. At least he didn't know. These guys have his lesson and so have no such excuse."

"Negotiating with thugs in good faith is futile. As the brilliant Stanislaw Jerzy Lec asked, "Is it progress if a cannibal uses a fork?""

"First step is ending the absurd denial that it's a problem in Islam. Terrorists & supporters may be a small fraction but they are real."

"Good luck showing tolerance and understanding for a crocodile's appetite when your leg is already halfway down its throat."

"This isn't support for "understanding" jihadists. Their actions speak clearly! Extremists are not deterred by tolerance, only encouraged."

"We do not lose to terrorists & dictators by dying. We lose by refusing to fight, to die or kill, for the values they are trying to destroy."

"The free world's enemies are best defined by their targets: free speech, education, equality."

"Hundreds of millions of people, possibly me included, would still be suffering under Communism if appeasement attitudes had prevailed."

"Can't negotiate with Taliban & their kind. They are enemies of civilization. You do not negotiate with cancer; you kill it or it kills you."

"Wanting to be everyone’s friend is nice, but when you shake hands with a bear you’d better count your fingers. And have a gun in other hand."

[Greyfox]

Terrorists & supporters may be a small fraction but they are real."


I can't disagree with anything Kasparov said.

I'd like to point out though that "small fraction" has been estimated by various intelligence sources as being between 180 to 325 million Muslims who applaud, support, and participate in ISIS type ideology.

[Tom]

Second, we have to "address the grievances that terrorists exploit, including economic grievances."

And the way to do that is to kill them.
The only way.

What a pathetic sniveling coward Obama is.
He is a disgrace to our species.
He is one of them.

[fast4522]

"What ISIS really wants" from start of thread:

What it will receive is the death of millions of its followers. Many here and elsewhere think Israel or the United States will at some point strike using weapons that have already produced results and effects openly known to your average person. Times have changed, we will not need to do what Harry Truman did in order to end the next great war. Obama and all our living Presidents know this and in turn use wording to reflect what they know. These people "ISIS and the like" are dangerous but in the end will fold like a cheap cigar box when every single country rejects them and they have no home to return.

[DJofSD]

And the way to do that is to kill them.
The only way.

What a pathetic sniveling coward Obama is.
He is a disgrace to our species.
He is one of them.
He and his tribe of sycophants need to understand the true meaning of war -- not their idealized Kumbaya oh-wouldn't-it-be-nice rationalization. But then there is a need to have an understanding of truth and principles and absolutes but that is impossible for those whom feel everything is relative.

[Tom]

Hey Barry, you stupid SOB......Freaking BIN LADEN was rich at one time.
It's NOT the economy, stupid - it is a RELIGIOUS freaking war.
Anyone who says other wise is wrong.

And they are heading to Rome - via Libya.
This was foreseeable is an honest investigation of Benghazi had ever been held.

[woodtoo]

Compare 0bamas speech to Rudy Giuliani's from Phoenix Feb 13.

Did I say compare :liar:

[Clocker]

Obama gives the Islam salute at a US-African leaders conference. Note the approving looks of his homies behind him.

http://moonbattery.com/graphics/obama-muslim-finger-salute-2.jpg

The one-finger display is the distinctive Muslim gang sign: The index finger points straight up while the thumb wraps underneath and presses against the digital phalange of the middle finger. The remaining fingers are squeezed against the palm in order to highlight the extended forefinger. The extended finger is symbolic of the one-God concept of Muhammad and is understood by all believers to be a symbolic shahada, the Muslim affirmation of faith: There is but one God and Muhammad is his messenger.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/02/obama_and_the_muslim_gang_sign.html#ixzz3SESbPj00

[woodtoo]

He can count his friends on one hand.

[Spiderman]

Obama gives the Islam salute at a US-African leaders conference. Note the approving looks of his homies behind him.

http://moonbattery.com/graphics/obama-muslim-finger-salute-2.jpg

that is photo shopped. Look at the distance of the hand to his face and compare the skin tone color. Hand is much darker than face. Actually, hand is black, Obama is brown.

[horses4courses]

that is photo shopped

Of course it is.
These guys lie like rugs.

[FantasticDan]

that is photo shopped. Look at the distance of the hand to his face and compare the skin tone color. Hand is much darker than face. Actually, hand is black, Obama is brown.Not photoshopped (for once), but no less stupid.. :bang:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/02/18/the-unbearable-stupidity-of-obamas-muslim-gang/202550

[Tom]

Ironic, I have a one finger salute for Obama of my own.

[Tom]

Not photoshopped (for once), but no less stupid.. :bang:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/02/18/the-unbearable-stupidity-of-obamas-muslim-gang/202550

there goes H4C, under the bus! :lol:

[horses4courses]

there goes H4C, under the bus! :lol:

......and it's still a lie............

Like most of your trumped up fantasies regarding the POTUS :ThmbDown:

[Tom]

Not photoshopped (for once), but no less stupid.. :bang:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/02/18/the-unbearable-stupidity-of-obamas-muslim-gang/202550

there goes H4C, under the bus! :lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Of course it is.
These guys lie like rugs.

Time for a cartoon, no?

[OntheRail]

Ironic, I have a one finger salute for Obama of my own.

Would you... could you...

http://boringpittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mister-rogers-flips-bird-photoshop.jpg


Neighbor :lol:

[snickster]

If you spent your entire young life with your muslim father in his muslim country going to muslim mosques with him regularly why would you not be muslim in heart at least (maybe not in word but he won't admit to that - possibly why he won't release his college transcripts because he registered as a muslim). How can a young child who typically wants to emulate and be like his father be expected to be anything different than what his father was. It is not possible no matter what he wants you to believe. He listened to nothing but radical muslim preachers and his father denouncing the west and in particular the US when he was young. Then when he moved to the US he listened to radical Wrigt denouncing white America along with all his other radical friends like Ayers. It is obvious that this guy has been indoctrinated to hate what America stands for and is why he claimed that he was going to radically transform it. He is radical as you can get - a black panther, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Louis Farakan - he just acts nicer while being radical so you cannot really see him for what he is - a big phony racist and hater of western white civilization.

[Saratoga_Mike]

His father moved back to Kenya when BH Obama was 3 years old. They met once again when Obama was 10 years old.

[Clocker]

All evidence points to the fact that Obama is not a Muslim, he is a strong believer in Black Liberation Theology as promulgated by Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Obama grew up in Muslim society and certainly knows the meaning of the gesture. Many speakers use the same gesture to emphasize a point, but Obama is not speaking in that picture. He is standing or walking in front of a number of Muslim leaders of African countries, and he is giving them a little insider salute, showing off how cool he is. It is blatantly obvious what is going on from his expression and the reactions of the others. Lighten up fan boys.

[davew]

Manchurian candidate - is he just trying to wreck the country, or has his mission not yet started?

[Saratoga_Mike]

All evidence points to the fact that Obama is not a Muslim, he is a strong believer in Black Liberation Theology as promulgated by Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Obama grew up in Muslim society and certainly knows the meaning of the gesture. Many speakers use the same gesture to emphasize a point, but Obama is not speaking in that picture. He is standing or walking in front of a number of Muslim leaders of African countries, and he is giving them a little insider salute, showing off how cool he is. It is blatantly obvious what is going on from his expression and the reactions of the others. Lighten up fan boys.

"Rev" Wright is a disgrace, and I can't believe Obama's association with him wasn't more of an issue in 2008 (besides the fact that McCain was such a horrible candidate). I've seen you post the BLT stuff before - you say this why?

[Clocker]

I've seen you post the BLT stuff before - you say this why?


Obama attended Wright's church for 20 years. He considered Wright to be a friend and a mentor. Wright is not just a preacher, he is an acknowledged writer and theologian in the movement.

A basic tenet of BLT is collective salvation, the idea that you cannot be saved on your own. You need the help of others, and you have to help others, to earn salvation. Obama has used the term often, especially in less political speeches, like college commencements. Salvation is a Christian concept, not Muslim. Collective salvation is a concept I have never heard of outside of Liberation Theology. But then I spend as little time as possible in the religious thread. :rolleyes:

Another major concept of BLT is social justice. It is not enough to achieve salvation in the next world, it is also necessary to work in this world to achieve social justice, i.e. equality, in the distribution of wealth and position in society, and in valuing diversity. Again, these are not Muslim concepts. They are concepts that explain Obama's policies. As an example, a stated goal of the EPA under Obama was environmental justice. Muslims believe in providing the necessities of life to the needy, but they do not believe in redistribution of wealth. As stated in the article in the OP, they believe that anything you want over and above basic food, clothing and housing you have to work for.

[FantasticDan]

Obama grew up in Muslim society and certainly knows the meaning of the gesture. Many speakers use the same gesture to emphasize a point, but Obama is not speaking in that picture. He is standing or walking in front of a number of Muslim leaders of African countries, and he is giving them a little insider salute, showing off how cool he is. It is blatantly obvious what is going on from his expression and the reactions of the others. Lighten up fan boys.So you watched both the videos linked in my article, and this is the conclusion you come to, huh?

How's the weather in Crackpot City? A little windy tonight? :lol:

[newtothegame]

So you watched both the videos linked in my article, and this is the conclusion you come to, huh?

How's the weather in Crackpot City? A little windy tonight? :lol:

Why ask when you can just tell us the conditions there :lol:

[Clocker]

So you watched both the videos linked in my article


No, I didn't, actually. I don't click on bare links that are posted without comment and that don't give me a reason why I would want to look at it. They invariably end up being a waste of time. It only takes a minute to describe what is at the link, if the poster wants people to look at it.

[Clocker]

Why ask when you can just tell us the conditions there :lol:

I tried to find it on the Weather Channel, but didn't have any luck. :p

[FantasticDan]

No, I didn't, actually. I don't click on bare links that are posted without comment and that don't give me a reason why I would want to look at it. They invariably end up being a waste of time. It only takes a minute to describe what is at the link, if the poster wants people to look at it. :lol: I think I prefaced the link more than adequately :rolleyes:

But the fact that you didn't even watch the videos before making your deep analysis of a split-second finger point is very impressive indeed :ThmbUp: :D

[Clocker]

:lol: I think I prefaced the link more than adequately :rolleyes:

You think you did, I think you didn't. That's why there's different flavors of ice cream. I don't care for the Kool Aid flavors.


http://moonbattery.com/graphics/Obama-Muslim-Sign.jpg

[Saratoga_Mike]

Clocker - watch your image/cartoon post count - H4C will start charging you a royalty.