What's the weirdest exotic payoff you've gotten that didn't make sense with the odds?

[Neumeier]

I know odds don't necessarily determined Tri/Super payout but sometimes you see an amount that doesn't make sense.

At Tampa the 5 was 3-5 and ran off the board. I played 7 @ 2. It finished 7-1-2 (field of 8). $43 winner 5-1 2nd 15-1 3rd. I was thinking $1500 for a buck. Came back $381!!!

On the other end about 20 years ago I hit a trifecta. It was like 3-2 4-1 8-1. I looked at actual tote board outside and thought it said $65. I went to cash and it was a tax ticket of around $650.

[lamboguy]

i once had a race in Garden State years ago, it was a 6 horse field. the winner was 3/5, the second place horse was 6/5 and the exacta was calling for $8.00 before the race started. i went to cash my ticket and they paid me $39.60.

[Stillriledup]

I know odds don't necessarily determined Tri/Super payout but sometimes you see an amount that doesn't make sense.

At Tampa the 5 was 3-5 and ran off the board. I played 7 @ 2. It finished 7-1-2 (field of 8). $43 winner 5-1 2nd 15-1 3rd. I was thinking $1500 for a buck. Came back $381!!!

On the other end about 20 years ago I hit a trifecta. It was like 3-2 4-1 8-1. I looked at actual tote board outside and thought it said $65. I went to cash and it was a tax ticket of around $650.

Tickets pay half of what they used to pay and if you get half of what you used to get, consider yourself lucky.

Three 10-1s running 1-2-3 back in the day would get you X. Today, it gets you half of X for the same three 10-1 shots.

For every fair price or good price you get, 9 times out of 10, its crushed. Read these discussions for prices paying much lower than they should.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119939

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118929

[arw629]

Some of my most disappointing....Once I hit a 22-1 over 13-1 $1 exacta at evangeline in a 12 horse field and only got $206.....once I hit a $1 exacta at hoosier 38-1 over 12-1 in a 9 horse field and only got $220

Some experiences on the other end...indiana downs maybe 2 or 3 years ago there was a cheap mcl and the odds were shuffling around left and right and favoritism was jumping around left and right ....i liked the longest shot 6 horse at like 10-1 on the board to be there but not win....i thought the 1 was the best of the rest at 5-1 and played it ten dollars straight with 3 minutes to post.....the 1 goes off at like 4/5 and the 6 runs second at 35-1......i got $720 back and was extremely happy
Last summer I hit a 50 cent pick 4 at monmouth that included something like a 2-1, 5-2, 9-2, and 5-1 and got back $1024.50.....again extremely happy

[TravisVOX]

A friend of mine hit this Trifecta and was totally robbed on the payoff IMO.

http://www.trackannouncer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bad_tri_payoffs.png

Dead heat for 3rd didn't help... but the disparity in the Tri vs. Super was brutal. This is Hawthorne late last year.

[Neumeier]

A friend of mine hit this Trifecta and was totally robbed on the payoff IMO.

http://www.trackannouncer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bad_tri_payoffs.png

Dead heat for 3rd didn't help... but the disparity in the Tri vs. Super was brutal. This is Hawthorne late last year.

It is true with tri/super disparities. I don't play supers but some of the payoffs make me wish I did. Like hitting a $200 tri and seeing the super pay $2800

[Stillriledup]

A friend of mine hit this Trifecta and was totally robbed on the payoff IMO.

http://www.trackannouncer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bad_tri_payoffs.png

Dead heat for 3rd didn't help... but the disparity in the Tri vs. Super was brutal. This is Hawthorne late last year.

Are those payouts shown on the tri's for 20 cents? That's the minimum at Hawthorne, so i don't know why the 20 cent price wouldn't be shown......its anyone's guess what those prices are for, it could be 20 cent prices, a buck, 2 bucks?

[Longshot6977]

About 8 or 9 years ago, I was playing Northfield Park. I played a $1 super in an 8 or 9 horse field. The winner was an odds on 3-5 shot over something like 7/2 or 3-1, then 8-1 and a bomb came in 4th. I was listening to the announcer give the prices and thought he said $1,500 for a two dollar super. I was surprised it was so much until I went to the window and found out it paid.......about $4,500 for a two dollar bet! Total surprise. I must have been the only one to have the winning ticket with the bomb in 4th place. The funny thing is I also had the $1 tri which paid about $500.

[SG4]

How below expectations does a payout have to be for it to trigger an investigation by the track? And are the results of these investigations ever made public? A lot of the times odd payouts (high or low) can be attributed to low pool size & low percentage wagers like pick 5's & supers, but there are the occasional payouts that just stick out beyond belief.

For example, did anyone see the results from Gulfstream's final race on Feb 12th? 34-1 wins the final race, 8-5 shot took the race before, 2-1 shot before that. Pick 3 comes back $60 for $1 in a fairly decent pool (37k), all other payouts for the double, pick 4, pick 5 etc all make sense, such as the double paying substantially more than the pick 3, $171 for $2. Would be nice to see some sort of statement of accountability from the track about why this payout was do distorted. They have no problem releasing the rainbow 6 winning ticket structures to toot their own horn, would be refreshing to see transparency in all issues.

[Stillriledup]

How below expectations does a payout have to be for it to trigger an investigation by the track? And are the results of these investigations ever made public? A lot of the times odd payouts (high or low) can be attributed to low pool size & low percentage wagers like pick 5's & supers, but there are the occasional payouts that just stick out beyond belief.

For example, did anyone see the results from Gulfstream's final race on Feb 12th? 34-1 wins the final race, 8-5 shot took the race before, 2-1 shot before that. Pick 3 comes back $60 for $1 in a fairly decent pool (37k), all other payouts for the double, pick 4, pick 5 etc all make sense, such as the double paying substantially more than the pick 3, $171 for $2. Would be nice to see some sort of statement of accountability from the track about why this payout was do distorted. They have no problem releasing the rainbow 6 winning ticket structures to toot their own horn, would be refreshing to see transparency in all issues.

There's rarely an investigation, racing industry is a hackers delight. But, you know, they caught Chris Harn and we haven't heard one peep about how much money they spent upgrading the tote systems and the deep investigative work they do analyzing blind pool exotic payouts to make sure nothing shady is going on...not one peep about it...so, they're just hoping you believe that the greatest hackers in the world can't infiltrate the horse racing tote systems.....in other words, they're asking you to trust them.

Speaking of investigations, there's also never an investigation into jocks or trainers who are gambling on the races.....oh, but wait, they caught a guy in Texas with a buzzer....means they're "on top" of things.....they would have caught him without the picture too as they're as diligent as can be. :rolleyes:

[TravisVOX]

Are those payouts shown on the tri's for 20 cents? That's the minimum at Hawthorne, so i don't know why the 20 cent price wouldn't be shown......its anyone's guess what those prices are for, it could be 20 cent prices, a buck, 2 bucks?

Those are all reported at the $2 level to avoid the confusion you just spelled out.

[Stillriledup]

Those are all reported at the $2 level to avoid the confusion you just spelled out.

Thanks.

[Cholly]

It would defy reason if the large computer syndicates were not running very sophisticated pool analyses giving them extremely accurate knowledge of what any combination is going to pay in any blind pool in any type race at any track. So if you’re not also performing very sophisticated computer analysis of these pools and payouts, you just have to know you’re taking the worst of if when you bet tri’s, supers, and horizontal bets other than doubles.

The more complicated the bet, the greater their advantage. It’s like playing a game of blackjack where you can only look at one of your cards but your opponent gets to look at both of his.

[FormalGold1]

In the 3rd from Mahoning Valley on Monday Feb. 16 , the 10 cent superfecta paid 90 cents. In a 5 horse field with a 2/5 on top with a super pool of
$ 4,200.

[Stillriledup]

It would defy reason if the large computer syndicates were not running very sophisticated pool analyses giving them extremely accurate knowledge of what any combination is going to pay in any blind pool in any type race at any track. So if you’re not also performing very sophisticated computer analysis of these pools and payouts, you just have to know you’re taking the worst of if when you bet tri’s, supers, and horizontal bets other than doubles.

The more complicated the bet, the greater their advantage. It’s like playing a game of blackjack where you can only look at one of your cards but your opponent gets to look at both of his.

This is totally true. The "efficient market" hurts "value" in the exotic pools more than other things. We would all do a lot better if tracks would give bettors the option of betting into pools that aren't accessible by remote

[Prytanis]

Many years ago I was at Yonkers and iI had this exacta.
First#5 at 11/1
Second #6 at11/1
They both leave and run one,two around the track.
Exacta paid $25
Herve Fillion was the driver of the winner!

[onefast99]

Meadowlands 2011 t bred meet 8 horse field winner ws 9/1 second horse 5/2 big favorite(2-5) out of the money exacta paid $32 next day at Aqueduct 9 horse field 8/1 winner with a 2/1 shot finishing second exacta paid $49.00

[TucsonGreyhound]

Do people complaining about Exacta payoffs bother to check the Exacta odds before betting them? :confused:

[thespaah]

A friend of mine hit this Trifecta and was totally robbed on the payoff IMO.

http://www.trackannouncer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bad_tri_payoffs.png

Dead heat for 3rd didn't help... but the disparity in the Tri vs. Super was brutal. This is Hawthorne late last year.
Wow.....
I'd have thought at the TRi's would have been much higher than that..

[tanner12oz]

All it takes is one person crushing a combo and the payout is toast..i know there's been days where I'm on tilt and playing $20 straight tris and stuff at tracks where you shouldn't be playing stuff like that..one of those connects and the payoff is ruined for everyone else. Some of the smaller tracks you have literally no idea what stuff will pay..emerald, Mahoning, mnr I have seen stuff that is insane

[Track Phantom]

Two I remember quite well.

In 1997, I had a runner that I liked at 20-1 morning line that went off at 50-1 and won. It was moving from dirt to turf and you couldn't see any of his turf races in his past running lines. I dug through old forms until I could find his full lifetime PP's. When viewing the PP's, it was obvious he hated the dirt and would improve dramatically on turf.

Coincidentally, I created one of my first analysis sheets on this day. A group of people were coming out to the races and I put together something for them to follow. I had this runner right on top as my live longshot of the day. Most of the group had a couple of bucks on him.

I bet stupidly. At 50-1, I should have bet him to win and been done with it. Instead, I played him in exotics and didn't have the 2nd place horse.

My FINAL two dollars was a pick 3 (still remember the numbers) 5 with 1 with 6 and 9. The #1 won the 2nd leg at 5-2. I was sitting on a 5-1 and 9-1 shot in the last leg of the pick 3. Never saw the will-pays (but knew at my track, Canterbury, if you got anything over 20-1, you were looking at 3 grand minimum).

The longer shot I had in the last leg won. I almost threw up when I saw the payoff. It paid $240 for a buck. I hit a pick 3 with payouts of $100+, $7 and $20 and was still down for the day.

I went back that night to every result chart I could find (had all the forms for CBY) and realized that only two pick 3's in three years even paid to 3 of 3 when a 25-1 or more winner was in the sequence and they paid to one winner ($3500+).

Finally figured it out. The trainer of the 50-1 shot was also the trainer of the 9-1 shot in the last leg. A $20 straight pick 3 would have deflated my odds to that degree. So, assuming 5k in the pool after takeout, 21 winning tickets (my $1 and the trainers $20) would have been right on at $240. Ridiculous.


At Hawthorne about 5-7 years ago, I was sitting on a big pick 4 to a single in the last leg. Don't remember exactly the payouts but it was something like 15-1, 4-1 and 10-1 in the first 3 legs. I singled a 6-1 shot in the last leg.

In looking at the will-pays, I was getting $2,000 if my horse won. I thought that was extremely low. Then, I noticed the favorite in the morning line (5-2) was paying $9,000. I shit you not! My 6-1 was paying 2,000 and the favorite was paying 9k.

I figured maybe I was on to a live runner and the connections or someone had played it hard. Nope. My horse opened up at 15-1 or so, got a nibble at the end and went off at 9-1....and ran like he was 100-1. The 5-2 shot went off as the 8-5 favorite and won by a football field.

I could not believe it. I played a much tougher to find runner, got an insanely low will-pay, got no action in the win pool and never got on the screen at anytime. Someone who played the obvious favorite won 9k.

I've been playing the game for 30 years. Never, ever will I be alive to a favorite in the pick 4 and have it paying more (even a dollar more) than a 9-1 shot. Never!

[Track Phantom]

How below expectations does a payout have to be for it to trigger an investigation by the track? And are the results of these investigations ever made public?

I agree with this. I've seen some things that make zero sense.

I was betting on TwinSpires about 5 or 6 years ago. I was playing the last race at RP. I played a bunch of combinations of exactas and hit the exacta with a 29-1 shot over a 12-1 shot. I immediately looked at the will-pays in the exacta pool and noticed this was paying $330 for $2. About 2-3 minutes after the race, the will-pays recalculated and the payoff on this combination dropped dramatically (to something like $185 for $2). At the same time, the other combinations with that winner all increased. ONE combination went down and it was the winning combination.

I know there are plausible reasons for this and maybe I was just unlucky but it sure looked suspicious to me. Maybe this happens all the time. I wouldn't know since I rarely play exactas and ever rarer do I ever look at the will-pays after the race.

I sent an email to Remington Park. Still holding my breath for a response.

[Stillriledup]

I agree with this. I've seen some things that make zero sense.

I was betting on TwinSpires about 5 or 6 years ago. I was playing the last race at RP. I played a bunch of combinations of exactas and hit the exacta with a 29-1 shot over a 12-1 shot. I immediately looked at the will-pays in the exacta pool and noticed this was paying $330 for $2. About 2-3 minutes after the race, the will-pays recalculated and the payoff on this combination dropped dramatically (to something like $185 for $2). At the same time, the other combinations with that winner all increased. ONE combination went down and it was the winning combination.

I know there are plausible reasons for this and maybe I was just unlucky but it sure looked suspicious to me. Maybe this happens all the time. I wouldn't know since I rarely play exactas and ever rarer do I ever look at the will-pays after the race.

I sent an email to Remington Park. Still holding my breath for a response.

There are plenty of suspicious payouts and suspicious rides on a daily basis around the country, and yet, an investigation is rare and even if they do investigate (and they only seem to investigate when there's enough of a public outcry) they always end up with the same press release "we found no wrongdoing".

Nobody cares.