ISIS burns man up

[lamboguy]

they just burned the Jordanian pilot up. they are not human's they are animals and must be dealt like scumbags mo-fo-----. the world cannot turn their backs on these lowlifes, they are more than capable of being worse than the nazi's were.

if we don't get them, they are going to get us. the world needs to finish the job they started 15 years ago and take down this loving religious islamic lowlife society and get all of them right next to Allah upstairs.

[horses4courses]

You're completely right, lambo - ISIS are inhuman animals.

This chief executioner with the British accent is the new Bin Laden.
He needs to be hunted down, and killed by any means possible.
A drone would do just fine.

[Clocker]

Nothing to worry about. The liberal, enlightened experts in this country assure us that ISIS is not a big problem.

According to UCLA Professor of Modern Middle Eastern History James L. Gelvin, ISIS is a minor problem that will go away if ignored.

“In spite of international coalition waging war against the Islamic state, it is extraordinarily fragile and will very likely collapse anyway under its own weight. And finally, as a result of that assertion, I believe that Barack Obama is repeating George W. Bush’s mistake, inflating a minor problem into something that is an existential threat to the United States.”

This guy has his head so far up where the sun don't shine, he doesn't even realize that Obama has his head in the same place.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/ucla-prof-leave-isis-alone-theyll-go-away

[lamboguy]

Nothing to worry about. The liberal, enlightened experts in this country assure us that ISIS is not a big problem.

According to UCLA Professor of Modern Middle Eastern History James L. Gelvin, ISIS is a minor problem that will go away if ignored.



This guy has his head so far up where the sun don't shine, he doesn't even realize that Obama has his head in the same place.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/ucla-prof-leave-isis-alone-theyll-go-awaythe worst thing to do at this point is turn this into a liberal conservative deal, this is way beyond that. this is a world issue that must be dealt with immediately.

[ReplayRandall]

the worst thing to do at this point is turn this into a liberal conservative deal, this is way beyond that. this is a world issue that must be dealt with immediately.
This was a very calculated incitement to show the world. I'm leery of something far worse waiting to be sprung.....Someone has access to a "live nuke." I hope I'm wrong but I think Iran is somehow behind this....

[thaskalos]

To identify a problem is one thing. To properly deal with it is something else.

[Clocker]

the worst thing to do at this point is turn this into a liberal conservative deal, this is way beyond that. this is a world issue that must be dealt with immediately.

You can't deal with a problem if the people in charge don't admit that it is a problem.

[horses4courses]

You can't deal with a problem if the people in charge don't admit that it is a problem.

Here's what is really happening - a short time ago.

Jordan's King Abdullah was already in Washington, and though he's cutting his visit short, he'll meet with Obama at the White House on Tuesday afternoon, a Jordanian embassy spokesperson told CNN.

Should the video prove authentic, "it's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization. And it, I think, will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated," Obama said Tuesday.

"It also just indicates the degree to which whatever ideology they're operating off of, it's bankrupt," Obama said. "We're here to talk about how to make people healthier and make their lives better. And this organization appears only interested in death and destruction."

[_______]

This was a very calculated incitement to show the world. I'm leery of something far worse waiting to be sprung.....Someone has access to a "live nuke." I hope I'm wrong but I think Iran is somehow behind this....

ISIS are Sunni extremists. Iran is Shia. Iran backs the Lebanese militia Hezbollah who are fighting ISIS on behalf of the Aassad regime in Syria. They are not behind ISIS or their actions.

The question we have to answer is whether we really want to choose a side in a triangular conflict. We are already perceived to be the Shia Air Force. Do we want to be their ground forces next?

Iraq and Syria are on their way to extended civil wars. They will look more like warlord ruled Somalia in 20 years than anything resembling a modern state. There isn't a lot we can do to change that trajectory outside of building a time machine and not invading Iraq in 2003.

[ReplayRandall]

ISIS are Sunni extremists. Iran is Shia. Iran backs the Lebanese militia Hezbollah who are fighting ISIS on behalf of the Aassad regime in Syria. They are not behind ISIS or their actions.

The question we have to answer is whether we really want to choose a side in a triangular conflict. We are already perceived to be the Shia Air Force. Do we want to be their ground forces next?

Iraq and Syria are on their way to extended civil wars. They will look more like warlord ruled Somalia in 20 years than anything resembling a modern state. There isn't a lot we can do to change that trajectory outside of building a time machine and not invading Iraq in 2003.

In the end, they're all MUSLIM and want a ONE WORLD ORDER under their Caliphate....They will soon be totally united against the West/US...don't be fooled.

[thaskalos]

In the end, they're all MUSLIM and want a ONE WORLD ORDER under their Caliphate....They will soon be totally united against the West/US...don't be fooled.

Are we anti-ISIS...or anti-Muslim?

[Clocker]

Somebody has some guts.

Jordan to execute 6 terrorists in retaliation for killing pilot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2938199/Burned-alive-cage-ISIS-release-video-claiming-horrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html

[ReplayRandall]

Are we anti-ISIS...or anti-Muslim?
Don't forget the division we had in this country during the Civil War. In 5 years, 620,000 Americans killed each other, yet we came together and united......I believe ALL Muslims will unite, and sooner than you think.

[thaskalos]

Don't forget the division we had in this country during the Civil War. In 5 years, 620,000 Americans killed each other, yet we came together and united......I believe ALL Muslims will unite, and sooner than you think.

And the solution is...what? Destroy all the Muslims now, before they have a chance to "unite"?

Dealing with a suspected problem is much more difficult than merely identifying it.

[boxcar]

the worst thing to do at this point is turn this into a liberal conservative deal, this is way beyond that. this is a world issue that must be dealt with immediately.

The world, eh? So, where's the U.N. cavalry when the world need them? :rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

I am not sure what all the fuss is about......
We cant control them.....
And we have it all under control here.....
No more water boarding....because its torture.....
Imagine if we were to stoop to these guys level..... :faint:

Ok sarcasm aside......

F&^^%$# these bastards!!! I say we bomb their asses into oblivion. Post as many videos we can over them dying or taking wart hog rounds up the azz..... Then drop leaflets saying the next allied troop that dies or is treated inhumanely, we start to literally erase the borders of your country with as many bombs as necessary!

[boxcar]

And the solution is...what? Destroy all the Muslims now, before they have a chance to "unite"?

Dealing with a suspected problem is much more difficult than merely identifying it.

If the U.S. had any sense, we'd be finding all kinds of creative and clever ways of exploiting and escalating the hatred between the two Muslim factions so that we'd get them to kill one another. Muslims already do a pretty good job of that.

[davew]

And the solution is...what? Destroy all the Muslims now, before they have a chance to "unite"?

Dealing with a suspected problem is much more difficult than merely identifying it.


Eliminate ISIS before they gain more power, and the burning probably happened weeks ago. Jordan is going to execute all of their ISIS captives and the lady bomber soon.

[lamboguy]

The world, eh? So, where's the U.N. cavalry when the world need them? :rolleyes:
they suck, we should throw them off our soil for starters, they are part of the problem here

[reckless]

Are we anti-ISIS...or anti-Muslim?

Gus, ISIS and the other versions of Islamo radicalism has killed more Muslims than 'we' have.

Radical Islam must be eradicated ... by any means possible. If 'we' don't do it then who will?

[Greyfox]

F&^^%$# these bastards!!! I say we bomb their asses into oblivion.!

My sentiments exactly.
These are savage pigs.

[reckless]

This latest murder thanks to ISIS was against a Muslin man.

His 'crime' was being a gay man.

Where is the outrage by the pro-gay and lesbian groups? By moderate Muslims and by our very own President? Where is CAIR, the 'human rights' advocates on these murders?

[thaskalos]

Gus, ISIS and the other versions of Islamo radicalism has killed more Muslims than 'we' have.

Radical Islam must be eradicated ... by any means possible. If 'we' don't do it then who will?

We are not in enough hot water playing "policeman" in the world. This problem needs to be addressed by a group effort; it can't be a U.S. initiative.

[reckless]

We are not in enough hot water playing "policeman" in the world. This problem needs to be addressed by a group effort; it can't be a U.S. initiative.

I don't totally disagree with you but I do disagee to this extent.

I am not advocating 'nation building' or 'spreading democracy' initiatives -- previous false reasons used to justify being the world's policeman.

This war against human kind by ISIS and the other wings of Islamo terrorism simply must be stopped and eradicated, as I have consistently called for.

If we are the lone country in the world capable of stopping this hatred, then we must do it, even alone, especially alone if need be.

The world really needs us now and to hell with the New York Times editorial board, the Corporate class and the political elites, here and abroad.

If not us, Gus, then who?

[TJDave]

If the U.S. had any sense, we'd be finding all kinds of creative and clever ways of exploiting and escalating the hatred between the two Muslim factions so that we'd get them to kill one another. Muslims already do a pretty good job of that.

For once, we agree.
Spoken like a true Christian, BTW.

[tucker6]

The world, eh? So, where's the U.N. cavalry when the world need them? :rolleyes:
In Tahiti dealing with climate change of course. You need to get your priorities right. :bang:

[thaskalos]

For once, we agree.
Spoken like a true Christian, BTW.

Something tells me that Boxcar isn't the sort of Christian who would "turn the other cheek"...

[TJDave]

Something tells me that Boxcar isn't the sort of Christian who would "turn the other cheek"...

Have you met any?
I haven't

[thaskalos]

Have you met any?
I haven't

I haven't met any other. I guess they missed that part of Jesus's teaching.

[ReplayRandall]

Have you met any?
I haven't

Face to Face?.....There's a number of Christians on PA, but you already know that, don't you Dave?

[Tom]

To identify a problem is one thing. To properly deal with it is something else.

Obama can do neither.

ISIS has GAINED territory since we started bombing them.

[Tom]

Somebody has some guts.

Jordan to execute 6 terrorists in retaliation for killing pilot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2938199/Burned-alive-cage-ISIS-release-video-claiming-horrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html

We should kill of ours immediately.
Any that that we don't water board for info.

btw, all this ISIS crap that we never saw coming occurred AFTER Obama stopped sensible interrogation.

Almost like he was planning it that way.

[Tom]

Something tells me that Boxcar isn't the sort of Christian who would "turn the other cheek"...

Most are not.
TTOC doens't apply in this case, btw.
There is more to it all than sound bytes.

[Tom]

I haven't met any other. I guess they missed that part of Jesus's teaching.

Maybe you just have no clue what you are talking about.
That is my bet.

Or maybe it just the company you keep?

[thaskalos]

Maybe you just have no clue what you are talking about.
That is my bet.

Or maybe it just the company you keep?
How much you wanna bet?

[JustRalph]

I compared them to the Nazi's

They continue to prove me right. This act is beyond the pale

Please refer to my signature

[Greyfox]

I compared them to the Nazi's

They continue to prove me right. This act is beyond the pale

Please refer to my signature


Yes JustRalph you compared them to Nazis in another thread some months ago.:ThmbUp:

You hit the nail on the head there.

In fact, their actions are worse than Nazis.

[Clocker]

The Times of India reports that Jordan has already executed by hanging two Al Qaeda terrorists in retaliation for the ISIS killing of one of their pilots.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/In-swift-response-Jordan-executes-2-al-Qaida-prisoners-after-ISIS-burns-alive-its-pilot/articleshow/46116814.cms

In other news, Obama is still trying to figure out the ideology of the ISIS scum.

"It also just indicates the degree to which whatever ideology they're operating off of, it's bankrupt," Obama said.

[Marshall Bennett]

Whatever it takes to spawn media coverage. The more savage the act, the more their message gets out.
Their goal is to touch the hearts and souls of their enemy, and we give them all they want. If we were to somehow ignore their savagery, they probably wouldn't do it. Of course, that ain't gonna happen.

[Tom]

How much you wanna bet?

I never bet with a fool.

[DJofSD]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/after-isis-execution-angry-king-abdullah-quotes-clint-eastwood-to-u.s.-lawmakers/article/2559770

[lamboguy]

a small country like Jordan decided that they aren't going to take any more shit from these animals. they won't succeed though. the world needs the big country's to step up like Russia, China, India and the U.S.

instead of relying on the elected officials in this country, the citizens need to make noise and let them know we need action now. it is our country, not the politicians from either party here. they don't own this place, we do.

[horses4courses]

I never bet with a fool.

That's the truest statement you have ever made on here.
Must be tough to constantly bet against people smarter than you.

[classhandicapper]

I watched the video of the burning. I'm really sorry I did because it was way worse than I imagined. I don't know what I was thinking. But it made me think these guys are begging to be exterminated by the civilized world. I think we should oblige.

[thaskalos]

I never bet with a fool.
That's where we differ. I go out of my way to find a fool to bet with. That's why I am trying to bet with you.

[reckless]

I watched the video of the burning. I'm really sorry I did because it was way worse than I imagined. I don't know what I was thinking. But it made me think these guys are begging to be exterminated by the civilized world. I think we should oblige.

Glad that you see this hatred too. I am sorry too many of the cognoscenti on here don't, can't and won't.

I have been calling for the eradication of these Islamo terrorists for a very long time now and as recently as some of my posts in this very thread (posts 20, 22, 24).

But, those posts have been basically ignored by our enlightened friends on this board. To them it's all about turning the other cheek, or not being a policeman and even, let's question ones Christian upbringing!

Too many here on PA could easily spew lots of venom toward Christians and conservatives, but they quickly cower and go swishy when the subject is the violence and hatred inside Islamo terrorism towards all human kind.

[Tom]

That's where we differ. I go out of my way to find a fool to bet with. That's why I am trying to bet with you.

You will be hard pressed to prove you never met a Christian.
I am taking pity on you.

[Tom]

Too many here on PA could easily spew lots of venom toward Christians and conservatives, but they quickly cower and go swishy when the subject is the violence and hatred inside Islamo terrorism towards all human kind.

The next terror attack will be 47% less horrific.

[thaskalos]

Glad that you see this hatred too. I am sorry too many of the cognoscenti on here don't, can't and won't.

I have been calling for the eradication of these Islamo terrorists for a very long time now and as recently as some of my posts in this very thread (posts 20, 22, 24).

But, those posts have been basically ignored by our enlightened friends on this board. To them it's all about turning the other cheek, or not being a policeman and even, let's question ones Christian upbringing!

Too many here on PA could easily spew lots of venom toward Christians and conservatives, but they quickly cower and go swishy when the subject is the violence and hatred inside Islamo terrorism towards all human kind.

This may shock you...but these atrocities, in one form or another, have gone on forever in this world of ours. It's just that they are not usually paraded in front of the public eye as they are now. There are "monsters" like these in other places too...and have been throughout our world's turbulent history. And, you know what? Some of these "monsters" have been former allies of ours...whom we've helped attain the power that they needed in order to carry out their murderous plans. And when they rose to power and started killing their own people by the thousands...they did so with nary a camera in sight...because the "powers that be" had decided that it wasn't beneficial to them to have these atrocities out in the public eye.

Don't talk to me about murderous thugs...I've seen them all before. And I wonder why we go after some of them...while we let the rest carry out their murderous plans without any interference from us.

[thaskalos]

You will be hard pressed to prove you never met a Christian.
I am taking pity on you.
I've met many who CALL themselves Christians. But we are what we do...

[Tom]

But never met a one, huh?
Must be THEY avoid you.

[thaskalos]

But never met a one, huh?
Must be THEY avoid you.
And I appreciate it.

[Show Me the Wire]

I've met many who CALL themselves Christians. But we are what we do...

Let me help you out. What you are really saying is you never met someone who meets your subjective criteria or perception.

[Robert Fischer]

There's no sense in going against the flow in topics like this.

You could say there is no truth and there is no market.
But in a sense, the public opinion and the 'flow' is the market.

People don't want to hear shit about this. And the minority who does want to hear shit about it would rather hear bullshit tailored to their own crazy ideas than actual reality.

[thaskalos]

Let me help you out. What you are really saying is you never met someone who meets your subjective criteria or perception.
No. What I am saying is that I've never met a Christian who believed in "turning the other cheek"...which, I think you'd agree, is one of Jesus's most important instructions. There is nothing "subjective" about it...you either follow Jesus's teachings, or you don't qualify to be called a "Christian".

This entire "Christian" conversation in this thread was sparked by Boxcar's post #17. Go back and read it...and then tell me if this is the "Christian Way".

[thaskalos]

There's no sense in going against the flow in topics like this.

You could say there is no truth and there is no market.
But in a sense, the public opinion and the 'flow' is the market.

People don't want to hear shit about this. And the minority who does want to hear shit about it would rather hear bullshit tailored to their own crazy ideas than actual reality.
Who cares what people "want to hear"?

[Robert Fischer]

Who cares what people "want to hear"?

lol ask Socrates :)

[Tom]

No. What I am saying is that I've never met a Christian who believed in "turning the other cheek"...which, I think you'd agree, is one of Jesus's most important instructions.

Not true.
That applies in some things but not universally.
There is more to it than sound bytes.

[TJDave]

That applies in some things but not universally.

I looked in the bible.
Didn't find an asterisk.

[thaskalos]

Not true.
That applies in some things but not universally.
There is more to it than sound bytes.
Read the entire passage...and then you'll see the context of it.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm


http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-44.htm

[Show Me the Wire]

No. What I am saying is that I've never met a Christian who believed in "turning the other cheek"...which, I think you'd agree, is one of Jesus's most important instructions. There is nothing "subjective" about it...you either follow Jesus's teachings, or you don't qualify to be called a "Christian".

This entire "Christian" conversation in this thread was sparked by Boxcar's post #17. Go back and read it...and then tell me if this is the "Christian Way".

Do you think turning the other cheek means ignoring evil being done to others? I am very sure you would not be very happy, if I allowed some terrorist to set you afire, when I had some power to stop the atrocity, because I turned the other cheek and accepted the violence against you.

BTW boxcar, is not the barameter or spokesperson for Christianity.

[Tom]

Funny how heathens think they know it all about it.
In that context, I would only turn the other cheek 47% of the time.

[Clocker]

Do you think turning the other cheek means ignoring evil being done to others?

Sure it does. Don't you remember in the bible when Jesus sat down with the money changers in the temple and explained to them that maybe what they were doing was wrong?

[thaskalos]

Do you think turning the other cheek means ignoring evil being done to others? I am very sure you would not be very happy, if I allowed some terrorist to set you afire, when I had some power to stop the atrocity, because I turned the other cheek and accepted the violence against you.

BTW boxcar, is not the barameter or spokesperson for Christianity.

Who is? I'd like to talk to him...

[thaskalos]

Sure it does. Don't you remember in the bible when Jesus sat down with the money changers in the temple and explained to them that maybe what they were doing was wrong?
Clocker...you sound like a level-headed person. How would you explain these two bible passages? Are they really that ambiguous?

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm

http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-44.htm

[Show Me the Wire]

Who is? I'd like to talk to him...


Jesus, you could talk to him anytime. It is called prayer and meditation.

[thaskalos]

Jesus, you could talk to him anytime. It is called prayer and meditation.

I talk to him...but when I do it...it's a monologue. And I would like a dialogue better...

[Tom]

If you do not get a reply, you did not deserve one.

[woodtoo]

Plenty of people being burnt in MS,TNN,etc lately.For some reason being
ignored by MS and these are Americans.
Not meaning to be off topic but

[thaskalos]

If you do not get a reply, you did not deserve one.
And you are the guy to talk against using "soundbites". 90% of your posts are soundbites and one-liners. The shy little boy who won't shut up on the internet.

[Show Me the Wire]

I talk to him...but when I do it...it's a monologue. And I would like a dialogue better...

Too much talking then and not enough listening.

I am starting a spiritual retreat by keeping my mouth closed and turning the other cheek.

[ReplayRandall]

Sure it does. Don't you remember in the bible when Jesus sat down with the money changers in the temple and explained to them that maybe what they were doing was wrong?
And when they didn't heed His warning, the following took place:
Making a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade."[Jn 2:13–16]

[Clocker]

Clocker...you sound like a level-headed person. How would you explain these two bible passages? Are they really that ambiguous?



I make no claim to being a student of the bible, and my comment about the money changers was just an off hand remark that popped into my head. But that story is certainly in conflict with the quotes you cite. So it appears that at some point justice demands that you not turn the other cheek. Personally, I find the admonition to "resist not evil" irrational and dangerous both to the individual and to society.

I am not a Christian and don't judge others as to whether or not they are faithful to their beliefs unless they are being pompous or hypocritically annoying. Like Nancy Pelosi's professed deep devotion to the Catholic Church, except all the tenets she doesn't care for. People like that are fair game.


P. S.There is disagreement about the meaning of the "eye for an eye" concept. Some use it to mean revenge is justified. Others, including some Jewish scholars I have seen quoted, say that it means that authorities should always let the punishment fit the crime. Which is to say, a prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment.

I see no moral conflict in praying for evil doers while administering appropriate punishment for crimes, especially crimes against humanity.

[classhandicapper]

No. What I am saying is that I've never met a Christian who believed in "turning the other cheek"...which, I think you'd agree, is one of Jesus's most important instructions. There is nothing "subjective" about it...you either follow Jesus's teachings, or you don't qualify to be called a "Christian".

This entire "Christian" conversation in this thread was sparked by Boxcar's post #17. Go back and read it...and then tell me if this is the "Christian Way".

The meaning of that quote is in dispute, but it DEFINITELY doesn't apply to self defense. There is no moral conflict between praying for evil doers and self defense.

http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/turn-the-other-cheek

The truth is: Jesus was using a common rabbinical teaching tool known as “hyperbole” in order to accentuate an important point. He did not intend that line to be taken in a strict, literal, and absolute sense. In fact, Jesus uses hyperbole throughout the Sermon on the Mount. For some reason, the “judge not” and “turn the other cheek” passages get an inordinate amount of air-time. But here are some other examples that are not as well known:

1. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away… (5:29)

Do we really think Jesus wants us to pluck out our eyes and throw them away? No! He is speaking hyperbole to emphasize the fact that we must eliminate all obstacles to serving God.

2. … if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away… (5:30)

Is anyone out on the stump encouraging folks to cut off hands in the name of Jesus?"

[Tom]

So Hitler should never have been opposed.
The allies were wrong to intervene.

[lamboguy]

So Hitler should never have been opposed.
The allies were wrong to intervene.if the ally's don't get in when they did in WW11, we would not be on this board bashing liberals and conservatives.

[thaskalos]

The meaning of that quote is in dispute, but it DEFINITELY doesn't apply to self defense. There is no moral conflict between praying for evil doers and self defense.

http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/turn-the-other-cheek

The truth is: Jesus was using a common rabbinical teaching tool known as “hyperbole” in order to accentuate an important point. He did not intend that line to be taken in a strict, literal, and absolute sense. In fact, Jesus uses hyperbole throughout the Sermon on the Mount. For some reason, the “judge not” and “turn the other cheek” passages get an inordinate amount of air-time. But here are some other examples that are not as well known:

1. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away… (5:29)

Do we really think Jesus wants us to pluck out our eyes and throw them away? No! He is speaking hyperbole to emphasize the fact that we must eliminate all obstacles to serving God.

2. … if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away… (5:30)

Is anyone out on the stump encouraging folks to cut off hands in the name of Jesus?"

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...Jesus said. Is that the same as saying "If your eye causes you to sin, then pluck it out and throw it away"? You say Jesus liked to use "hyperboles" when he spoke. Fine...so do I. ALL of us use hyperboles from time to time in order to make our point. But we also EXPLAIN our hyperboles when we are asked to do so...in order to avoid misunderstandings about what we are trying to say. Did JESUS further explain his hyperboles...so we could know what he really meant?

If he didn't really mean "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...then, what did he really mean?

If he didn't really mean..."When someone strikes you on the cheek, then turn to him your other cheek as well"...then, what did he really mean?

If he didn't really mean "If a man asks for your shirt...then give him your coat as well"...what did he really mean?

"It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to get into heaven"...Jesus said. Now...I couldn't care less if the "eye of a needle" was REALLY the eye of a needle, or a small opening in a cave...what did this man really MEAN?

Because, if we don't know what he really meant...then his teaching is of dubious value to us.

[classhandicapper]

if the ally's don't get in when they did in WW11, we would not be on this board bashing liberals and conservatives.

Sie sind richtig!

[Tom]

Because, if we don't know what he really meant...then his teaching is of dubious value to me.

FTFY.....not everyone has as much trouble as you seem to.

[classhandicapper]

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...Jesus said. Is that the same as saying "If your eye causes you to sin, then pluck it out and throw it away"? You say Jesus liked to use "hyperboles" when he spoke. Fine...so do I. ALL of us use hyperboles from time to time in order to make our point. But we also EXPLAIN our hyperboles when we are asked to do so...in order to avoid misunderstandings about what we are trying to say. Did JESUS further explain his hyperboles...so we could know what he really meant?

If he didn't really mean "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...then, what did he really mean?

If he didn't really mean..."When someone strikes you on the cheek, then turn to him your other cheek as well"...then, what did he really mean?

If he didn't really mean "If a man asks for your shirt...then give him your coat as well"...what did he really mean?

"It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to get into heaven"...Jesus said. Now...I couldn't care less if the "eye of a needle" was REALLY the eye of a needle, or a small opening in a cave...what did this man really MEAN?

Because, if we don't know what he really meant...then his teaching is of dubious value to us.

"We", as people 2000 years later, are not familiar with the language, teaching methods, translations etc... That's why Christians have had religious and other scholars try to interpret this stuff for us.

Everyone agrees He didn't mean we should be plucking out our eyes or cutting off our hands.

From what I gather, St Augustine is the guy that did some of the definitive analysis on what "turn the other cheek" really means. He made the case that it had nothing to do with self defense by laying out all the passages and actions of Jesus that contradict a literal interpretation (along with the use of other hyperbole in that sermon). At that point if you are a Christian you either accept St Augustine or you don't. I'd agree with his interpretation even if I wasn't raised Catholic.

I think Jesus would be appalled if we allowed ourselves to be slaughtered and didn't help protect the innocent from evil if we were in a position to do so. I think He'd just insist we not hate them, but instead pray for them. Whether Christians have always behaved that way is another story.

[thaskalos]

FTFY.....not everyone has as much trouble as you seem to.

Explain then...smartguy.

[Tom]

For what purpose?
You seem happy enough not believing.

I am not a missionary.

[Clocker]

"It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to get into heaven"...Jesus said. Now...I couldn't care less if the "eye of a needle" was REALLY the eye of a needle, or a small opening in a cave...what did this man really MEAN?


If Jesus actually said this, it was a parable. Look it up in Wiki and you will see that are several similar aphorisms about needles that predate the bible. He was probably using a common saying that others had used before him. Or some author a hundred years later attributed it to him based on oral tradition. Little in Christianity is original. Large portions, including events and celebrations, have precedents Jewish and other cultures in pre-biblical time.

[thaskalos]

"We", as people 2000 years later, are not familiar with the language, teaching methods, translations etc... That's why Christians have had religious and other scholars try to interpret this stuff for us.

Everyone agrees He didn't mean we should be plucking out our eyes or cutting off our hands.

From what I gather, St Augustine is the guy that did some of the definitive analysis on what "turn the other cheek" really means. He made the case that it had nothing to do with self defense by laying out all the passages and actions of Jesus that contradict a literal interpretation (along with the use of other hyperbole in that sermon). At that point if you are a Christian you either accept St Augustine or you don't. I'd agree with his interpretation even if I wasn't raised Catholic.

I think Jesus would be appalled if we allowed ourselves to be slaughtered and didn't help protect the innocent from evil if we were in a position to do so. I think He'd just insist we not hate them, but instead pray for them. Whether Christians have always behaved that way is another story.
I don't know if you've noticed this...but the "Christian scholars" are hardly in agreement when it comes to what Jesus really meant. That's where church doctrine came in...and created the schism between the different Christian denominations that we see today.

We know what St. Augustine meant...we know what the Christian scholars mean...and we know what the Christian believers mean. But we don't know what JESUS meant...and he is supposedly the founder of the Christian Church.

If only we could find out what Jesus meant...

[thaskalos]

If Jesus actually said this, it was a parable. Look it up in Wiki and you will see that are several similar aphorisms about needles that predate the bible. He was probably using a common saying that others had used before him. Or some author a hundred years later attributed it to him based on oral tradition. Little in Christianity is original. Large portions, including events and celebrations, have precedents Jewish and other cultures in pre-biblical time.
It wasn't a "parable"...it was an exaggeration. But what was the truth? What could he have really meant?

God comes to this earth in human form, to bring us his message...and none of us can agree on what he really meant?

[thaskalos]

For what purpose?
You seem happy enough not believing.

I am not a missionary.

I am not happy. Do I sound happy? Look at my avatar...I am looking for the "Truth". But where is it?

Every religion claims to possess it...but they've all packaged it differently.

[Clocker]

God comes to this earth in human form, to bring us his message...and none of us can agree on what he really meant?

Some of us don't agree on the first part of that sentence, and think that the whole bible is a parable.

[tucker6]

Some of us don't agree on the first part of that sentence, and think that the whole bible is a parable.
yes

[thaskalos]

Some of us don't agree on the first part of that sentence, and think that the whole bible is a parable.
Yes...but tell that to a REAL Christian, and he'll call you an "unbeliever".

I agree with what you say here...by the way.

[ReplayRandall]

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...Jesus said. Is that the same as saying "If your eye causes you to sin, then pluck it out and throw it away"? You say Jesus liked to use "hyperboles" when he spoke. Fine...so do I. ALL of us use hyperboles from time to time in order to make our point. But we also EXPLAIN our hyperboles when we are asked to do so...in order to avoid misunderstandings about what we are trying to say. Did JESUS further explain his hyperboles...so we could know what he really meant?

If he didn't really mean "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"...then, what did he really mean? Pray(meaning care) for your enemies, soon they'll be your enemy no more. (At least try to see and change why they are your enemy). IE: It's easy to love your friends..

If he didn't really mean..."When someone strikes you on the cheek, then turn to him your other cheek as well"...then, what did he really mean? Before you automatically strike back(instinct of the flesh), turn to him and find out why he struck you. Don't immediately retaliate, he could've acted in error and may seek forgiveness, or maybe you are responsible for the action.

If he didn't really mean "If a man asks for your shirt...then give him your coat as well"...what did he really mean? When someone's in need, be generous, don't give the bare minimum.

"It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to get into heaven"...Jesus said. Now...I couldn't care less if the "eye of a needle" was REALLY the eye of a needle, or a small opening in a cave...what did this man really MEAN?It is basically impossible for those who "love" money to extricate themselves from its grip. This man didn't own money, money owned him. Jesus knew his heart and his generous previous giving and satisfying of the commandments were not for the love of God, but to boast of his own righteousness.

Because, if we don't know what he really meant...then his teaching is of dubious value to us.
I gave you my opinion of faith....nothing more.

[thaskalos]

I gave you my opinion of faith....nothing more.

I like your "opinion of faith"...Randall, and my own opinion is not far from yours. And, as long as we both understand that we are only talking about "opinions"...then we can't really get into much of an argument.

It's when some people start to disguise their opinions as solid FACTS, that the arguments begin.

It's ALL opinion. NONE of us really know. That's why we say that that's what we "believe". If we were really SURE about something...then we wouldn't say that we "believe" it. We would say that we KNOW it.

I hold my closed fist out...and I ask you to believe that I am holding a diamond. Then I open my fist...and your "belief" is no longer necessary.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know if you've noticed this...but the "Christian scholars" are hardly in agreement when it comes to what Jesus really meant. That's where church doctrine came in...and created the schism between the different Christian denominations that we see today.

We know what St. Augustine meant...we know what the Christian scholars mean...and we know what the Christian believers mean. But we don't know what JESUS meant...and he is supposedly the founder of the Christian Church.

If only we could find out what Jesus meant...

It's the nature of things that unless you are a witness and can ask, you are reliant on the most scholarly people around to explain what was meant. I understand that not all scholars agree on everything, but they do agree on many things and I think self defense is one of them.

[ReplayRandall]

I like your "opinion of faith"...Randall, and my own opinion is not far from yours. And, as long as we both understand that we are only talking about "opinions"...then we can't really get into much of an argument.

It's when some people start to disguise their opinions as solid FACTS, that the arguments begin.

It's ALL opinion. NONE of us really know. That's why we say that that's what we "believe". If we were really SURE about something...then we wouldn't say that we "believe" it. We would say that we KNOW it.

I hold my closed fist out...and I ask you to believe that I am holding a diamond. Then I open my fist...and your "belief" is no longer necessary.
I KNOW this conversation is worthwhile.......deep down we ALL care, constantly searching for TRUTH, meaning and purpose in our lives......and a winner in the 5th at Gulfstream... :cool:

[JustRalph]

Plenty of people being burnt in MS,TNN,etc lately.For some reason being
ignored by MS and these are Americans.
Not meaning to be off topic but

point me........ I know of the one girl........... that was a plain criminal act in an effort to destroy evidence. show me some others

[Clocker]

Yes...but tell that to a REAL Christian, and he'll call you an "unbeliever".

I agree with what you say here...by the way.

I am an unbeliever. And I believe that morality is a concept that does not need to rely on religion to define it. Religion is neutral. People can use it to inspire moral behavior or to justify the opposite.

[thaskalos]

I am an unbeliever. And I believe that morality is a concept that does not need to rely on religion to define it. Religion is neutral. People can use it to inspire moral behavior or to justify the opposite.

Good enough for me. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

For once, we agree.
Spoken like a true Christian, BTW.

Ancient Israel engaged in such practices. Can a divided house stand for long?

[boxcar]

I haven't met any other. I guess they missed that part of Jesus's teaching.

"Turning the other cheek" suddenly applies to world politics? This is what is being discussed here, isn't it -- politics?

[TJDave]

It was fun while it lasted.

[woodtoo]

point me........ I know of the one girl........... that was a plain criminal act in an effort to destroy evidence. show me some others
Very similar to the JC case, found in burning vehicle in field about 400 miles away in TNN. There are more, I'll check.Jan.3 I think.

[thaskalos]

It's the nature of things that unless you are a witness and can ask, you are reliant on the most scholarly people around to explain what was meant. I understand that not all scholars agree on everything, but they do agree on many things and I think self defense is one of them.

You said in another thread that you don't blindly follow ANY person's opinion when it comes to horses. And you are telling me now that you would rely on some "scholar's" opinion when it comes to GOD?

What's a bigger mystery...the horses, or God?

[woodtoo]

N.Millington 84 miles. not 400.

[JustRalph]

Very similar to the JC case, found in burning vehicle in field about 400 miles away in TNN. There are more, I'll check.Jan.3 I think.

I found it.


http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/27707130/woman-arrested-charged-with-murder-of-man-found-in-burning-truck

Those are both cases where the victim died of other causes. Not burned alive or immolated for political gain or torturous means.

They were burned to destroy evidence. It's an entirely different thing.

Btw, Piers Morgan came out today and called for multiple countries in the world to rise up similar to WWII because ISIS is now equal to the Nazi's

I hope he pays a royalty

[PhantomOnTour]

I watched the video of the burning. I'm really sorry I did because it was way worse than I imagined. I don't know what I was thinking. But it made me think these guys are begging to be exterminated by the civilized world. I think we should oblige.
You are much less squeamish than me.
A guy who worked for me about 10yrs ago watched a beheading video (I believe it was the first one that was put on the web) and it disturbed him. He was really affected by what he saw, and I decided at that moment to never watch one of those videos.

Heck - I don't even like watching bad sports injuries, much less this savagery

[TJDave]

What's a bigger mystery...the horses, or God?

I donate more to horses.
Maybe that's why.

[Tom]

Some of us don't agree on the first part of that sentence, and think that the whole bible is a parable.

Bingo.

[woodtoo]

I found it.


http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/27707130/woman-arrested-charged-with-murder-of-man-found-in-burning-truck

Those are both cases where the victim died of other causes. Not burned alive or immolated for political gain or torturous means.

They were burned to destroy evidence. It's an entirely different thing.

Btw, Piers Morgan came out today and called for multiple countries in the world to rise up similar to WWII because ISIS is now equal to the Nazi's

I hope he pays a royalty

In JC case they found her alive but 98% burned with accelerant remains.

Robertson County TNN body found burning in field Feb 1st.

There was also one in Ferguson at the time of the riots.

I agree its being done to destroy evidence,some alive and some not. Just
occurring more often, gang related?

[thaskalos]

Bingo.

Tom...is Clocker's post #95 a "bingo" too?

[classhandicapper]

You said in another thread that you don't blindly follow ANY person's opinion when it comes to horses. And you are telling me now that you would rely on some "scholar's" opinion when it comes to GOD?

What's a bigger mystery...the horses, or God?

I'm agnostic (with a rooting interest ;) ). That should answer your question.

[thaskalos]

I'm agnostic (with a rooting interest ;) ). That should answer your question.
Root for the other team... :)

It's gaining ground...

[tucker6]

Tom...is Clocker's post #95 a "bingo" too?
Do you agree or disagree with post 95?? You said that it was good enough for you, but this post makes me think I've misunderstood you. TIA

[thaskalos]

Do you agree or disagree with post 95?? You said that it was good enough for you, but this post makes me think I've misunderstood you. TIA

I agree with everyone, no matter what their religious opinion is...as long as they admit that it's only an "opinion". NO ONE has all the answers when it comes to religion. Any one of us can be entirely wrong...and we should accept that.

If life is a "mystery" -- and it is, even to the greatest scientists -- then how can the afterlife not be a bigger mystery?

[tucker6]

I agree with everyone, no matter what their religious opinion is...as long as they admit that it's only an "opinion". NO ONE has all the answers when it comes to religion. Any one of us can be entirely wrong...and we should accept that.

If life is a "mystery" -- and it is, even to the greatest scientists -- then how can the afterlife not be a bigger mystery?
Hard to refute that statement. :ThmbUp:

I put very little thought into organized religion, as I find it a drain on the important things in my life. I fear religion and the Bible were invented to keep the masses in line morally after they started living together in large communities, and the closeness created tensions/crimes. What I have gotten from the Bible are good moral stories that I try to live by because they make me feel good about myself by doing so. I do not believe the stories in the Bible are true, nor the characters. But I believe in the moral behind the stories.

[TJDave]

Post #95 says more in three sentences than was said in 16,900 on the other thread.

[Greyfox]

Post #95 says more in three sentences than was said in 16,900 on the other thread.

From a man who is a regular contributor to the other thread.

That doesn't speak highly of your posts there does it?

[thaskalos]

Hard to refute that statement. :ThmbUp:

I put very little thought into organized religion, as I find it a drain on the important things in my life. I fear religion and the Bible were invented to keep the masses in line morally after they started living together in large communities, and the closeness created tensions/crimes. What I have gotten from the Bible are good moral stories that I try to live by because they make me feel good about myself by doing so. I do not believe the stories in the Bible are true, nor the characters. But I believe in the moral behind the stories.

And I, in turn, can't refute what you just said. :ThmbUp:

See how peaceful and orderly things are when people refuse to blindly embrace religious dogma?

I too find a lot of good advice in the world's great religions...but who's to say who is right...and who is wrong? Should I believe Jesus...or should I side with the Buddha? Or, should I reject the teachings of BOTH of them?

I don't know...and chances are that I'll NEVER know. So...why should I pretend to know? All the religions have their "holy books"...and they all presume to tell "the Truth".

[tucker6]

And I, in turn, can't refute what you just said. :ThmbUp:

See how peaceful and orderly things are when people refuse to blindly embrace religious dogma?

I too find a lot of good advice in the world's great religions...but who's to say who is right...and who is wrong? Should I believe Jesus...or should I side with the Buddha? Or, should I reject the teachings of BOTH of them?

I don't know...and chances are that I'll NEVER know. So...why should I pretend to know? All the religions have their "holy books"...and they all presume to tell "the Truth".
As they say, beware those telling the "truth".

[TJDave]

From a man who is a regular contributor to the other thread.

That doesn't speak highly of your posts there does it?

No, it doesn't.

[thaskalos]

Post #95 says more in three sentences than was said in 16,900 on the other thread.

Well...seeing Clocker's posts in the political threads...he was due for a good one. :)

[Clocker]

I fear religion and the Bible were invented to keep the masses in line morally after they started living together in large communities, and the closeness created tensions/crimes.

It is a basic part of human nature to fear the unknown and the inexplicable. From what I have seen, every society, no matter how primitive, has a creation myth and some kind of spirits to explain the unknown. As the society becomes more complex, so does the religion. As someone once said, God created man in his own image, and man returned the favor.

The bible or scriptures of other religions are just myths and stories of the past, usually about charismatic leaders, that get elevated over time into sacred documents.

[thaskalos]

It is a basic part of human nature to fear the unknown and the inexplicable. From what I have seen, every society, no matter how primitive, has a creation myth and some kind of spirits to explain the unknown. As the society becomes more complex, so does the religion. As someone once said, God created man in his own image, and man returned the favor.

The bible or scriptures of other religions are just myths and stories of the past, usually about charismatic leaders, that get elevated over time into sacred documents.

Clocker...you said that you were an "unbeliever". Does that mean that you have rejected the notion of a "Higher Being"...or is it that you haven't seen any "believable" evidence to support a "believing" view?

[tucker6]

It is a basic part of human nature to fear the unknown and the inexplicable. From what I have seen, every society, no matter how primitive, has a creation myth and some kind of spirits to explain the unknown. As the society becomes more complex, so does the religion. As someone once said, God created man in his own image, and man returned the favor.

The bible or scriptures of other religions are just myths and stories of the past, usually about charismatic leaders, that get elevated over time into sacred documents.
If only religions would make the morality central to their existence instead of 'gospel', they'd be further ahead and have more followers. The word that forms in my mind when I view religion is 'bankrupt'. We aren't the uneducated sheep we were 2,000 years ago. Time to change the message.

[thaskalos]

If only religions would make the morality central to their existence instead of 'gospel', they'd be further ahead and have more followers. The word that forms in my mind when I view religion is 'bankrupt'. We aren't the uneducated sheep we were 2,000 years ago. Time to change the message.

When you declare that a book contains the authentic "Word Of God"...then you are compelled to defend every erroneous comment and inconsistency found in this book. And you can't do that, without sounding foolish.

[boxcar]

When you declare that a book contains the authentic "Word Of God"...then you are compelled to defend every erroneous comment and inconsistency found in this book. And you can't do that, without sounding foolish.

Tell me, sir, who is more of a fool: The guy who alleges that contradictions abound all over scripture but yet can't substantiate those allegations with the Law of Non-Contradiction or the guy who can refute the first fool's allegations each and every time? :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. Remember the "contradiction" involving the two criminals who were crucified with Christ?

[horses4courses]

Here openeth the proverbial can of worms for today........

[thaskalos]

Tell me, sir, who is more of a fool: The guy who alleges that contradictions abound all over scripture but yet can't substantiate those allegations with the Law of Non-Contradiction or the guy who can refute the first fool's allegations each and every time? :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. Remember the "contradiction" involving the two criminals who were crucified with Christ?
Case in point...

[thaskalos]

Here openeth the proverbial can of worms for today........
H4H...you are a reasonable guy, so, may I impose on you to answer a question of mine?

Jesus is being crucified along with two thieves...and four different gospel writers are reporting the event. Two of the gospel writers report that BOTH of the thieves were mocking Jesus as they were nailed to the cross...one gospel writer states that only one of the thieves was mocking Jesus, while the other thief chastised the first thief for mocking an innocent man...and the last gospel writer remains silent and reports nothing about this particular event.

Would you call this an "inconsistency"?

[boxcar]

H4H...you are a reasonable guy, so, may I impose on you to answer a question of mine?

Jesus is being crucified along with two thieves...and four different gospel writers are reporting the event. Two of the gospel writers report that BOTH of the thieves were mocking Jesus as they were nailed to the cross...one gospel writer states that only one of the thieves was mocking Jesus, while the other thief chastised the first thief for mocking an innocent man...and the last gospel writer remains silent and reports nothing about this particular event.

Would you call this an "inconsistency"?

The real question should be: Would you call it a contradiction? To this day, you have not demonstrated how those different accounts violate the Law of Non-Contradiction. I suspect that Obama will convert to Christianity before you can do that. :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

The real question should be: Would you call it a contradiction? To this day, you have not demonstrated how those different accounts violate the Law of Non-Contradiction. I suspect that Obama will convert to Christianity before you can do that. :rolleyes:
I never used the word "contradiction' in this thread. Check it and see. I said "inconsistency"...because I knew that you would eventually chime in with your peculiar definitions.

[Greyfox]

I suspect that Obama will convert to Christianity before you can do that. :rolleyes:

:lol: Good one!:ThmbUp: :lol:

[horses4courses]

H4H...you are a reasonable guy, so, may I impose on you to answer a question of mine?

Jesus is being crucified along with two thieves...and four different gospel writers are reporting the event. Two of the gospel writers report that BOTH of the thieves were mocking Jesus as they were nailed to the cross...one gospel writer states that only one of the thieves was mocking Jesus, while the other thief chastised the first thief for mocking an innocent man...and the last gospel writer remains silent and reports nothing about this particular event.

Would you call this an "inconsistency"?

Highly inconsistent.

[Tom]

Tom...is Clocker's post #95 a "bingo" too?

Obviously, no.
Otherwise, I would have posted a Bingo for that one too.
See, here is how it works, another little mystery of life.
When you quote a post and comment on it, it is about that post, not other ones.

Do I have to agree with Clocker on everything because I agree on one specific one?

[Tom]

H4H...you are a reasonable guy,

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You believe THAT?

[boxcar]

Highly inconsistent.

Too bad differences don't necessarily equate to contradictions. And the different accounts don't even qualify as being inconsistent with each other because they are not incompatible with each other. They can co-exist and be harmonized. But if you doubt this, then by all means show us how your "inconsistencies" violate the Law of Non-Contradiction. Maybe you and Thask can super glue your heads together and come up with a coherent explanation. After all, two heads are supposed to be better than one, right? :rolleyes:

[Tom]

After all, two heads are supposed to be better than one, right?

Depends on the heads.

[boxcar]

Depends on the heads.

Which butt[ing] head is Thask's and which is Horsey's? :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

At least there is some common ground! :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

You are much less squeamish than me.
A guy who worked for me about 10yrs ago watched a beheading video (I believe it was the first one that was put on the web) and it disturbed him. He was really affected by what he saw, and I decided at that moment to never watch one of those videos.

Heck - I don't even like watching bad sports injuries, much less this savageryI am with you....100%...of course we'll be accused of deliberately ignoring it, making it somehow not real...but that's another story for another day.

Perhaps they should show these things on the nightly news...that way people might actually get a sense of what is going on out there...

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't start arguing about religion with Boxcar in this thread, or I'll close it.

We already have a place on here for that kind of thing...use it... :lol:

[Clocker]

Don't start arguing about religion with Boxcar in this thread, or I'll close it.

We already have a place on here for that kind of thing...use it... :lol:

You must have left the door unlocked. :p

[JustRalph]

I would like to nominate the King of Jordan for Prez.

A real leader amongst a pack of cowardly rats........

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/05/world/isis-jordan/index.html

The King


Abdullah began his schooling at the Islamic Educational College in Amman. He then attended St Edmund's School, Hindhead, in England, before continuing his education in the United States at Eaglebrook School and Deerfield Academy in Deerfield, Massachusetts. In 1980 he joined the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, was commissioned into the British Army as a Second Lieutenant, and served for a year as a troop commander in the 13th/18th Royal Hussars.[1] In 1982, Abdullah was admitted to Pembroke College, Oxford, where he completed a one-year Special Studies course in Middle Eastern Affairs. Upon returning home, he joined the Royal Jordanian Army, serving as an officer in the 40th Armored Brigade, and undergoing a parachuting and freefall course. In 1985, he attended the Armored Officer's Advanced Course at Fort Knox, and in 1986, he became commander of a tank company in the 91st Armored Brigade, holding the rank of Captain. He also served with the Royal Jordanian Air Force in its Anti-Tank Wing, where he was trained to fly Cobra attack helicopters.[4]

In 1987, he attended the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.[5]

In 1993, he assumed command of Jordan's special forces and became a Major General in May 1998.

In the 1960s, King Hussein had arranged for the throne to pass to his brother and then to his son Prince Ali bin Al Hussein, but he later decided to change his mind. He seriously considered appointing one of his nephews as heir, but on his deathbed, on 25 January 1999, he named Abdullah as his heir.

[fast4522]

Excellent post JR, the guy is genuine.

[Clocker]

One reason the king was here was to ask Obama for basic military supplies, like ammo, bombs, jet fuel, etc. It appears that he left without any commitment from Obama, and now Congress is trying to pressure Obama into helping.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/05/obama-administration-facing-pressure-to-define-isis-strategy-boost-aid-to/


The White House has also been conspicuous by its lack of comment on Jordan's execution of ISIS terrorists in retaliation for the death of the pilot.

Obama did take the opportunity of the National Prayer Breakfast to apologize to the world for past sins of Christians.

“Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” Obama said. “In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”

[tucker6]

One reason the king was here was to ask Obama for basic military supplies, like ammo, bombs, jet fuel, etc. It appears that he left without any commitment from Obama, and now Congress is trying to pressure Obama into helping.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/05/obama-administration-facing-pressure-to-define-isis-strategy-boost-aid-to/


The White House has also been conspicuous by its lack of comment on Jordan's execution of ISIS terrorists in retaliation for the death of the pilot.

Obama did take the opportunity of the National Prayer Breakfast to apologize to the world for past sins of Christians.
His overt racism doesn't surprise me anymore.

[Tom]

Excellent post JR, the guy is genuine.
Yes, a real world leader.

As far as that ass clown Obama this morning, here we are, a nation of evil Christians, outraged by the murder of a Muslim. Shame on us.
Wonder how many went out and played golf?

And, sadly, many right here on this board would oppose water bording that SOB who burned him.

[PaceAdvantage]

One reason the king was here was to ask Obama for basic military supplies, like ammo, bombs, jet fuel, etc. It appears that he left without any commitment from Obama, and now Congress is trying to pressure Obama into helping.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/05/obama-administration-facing-pressure-to-define-isis-strategy-boost-aid-to/


The White House has also been conspicuous by its lack of comment on Jordan's execution of ISIS terrorists in retaliation for the death of the pilot.

Obama did take the opportunity of the National Prayer Breakfast to apologize to the world for past sins of Christians.Was Obama factually incorrect?

[tucker6]

Was Obama factually incorrect?
No, but it comes across as Chamberlain-esque. There's a time to extend an olive branch and a time to show the barrel of a gun. Obama chose poorly.

[Tom]

Factually correct, chronologically waaaaay off base.
If he gave that speech back then, it would have been appropriate.
Giving it yesterday was unforgivable.

He would rather not offend anyone than do his job.
IT is time for this POS to be removed from office.
Biden would be 100% better than this clown.

[Tom]

Sunday, Obummer told Savannah Guthrie that we were doing "everything that can be done" about ISIS.

Yesterday, he said we were going to double our efforts.

So now we will doing twice as much as can be done.

[Clocker]

Was Obama factually incorrect?

No, but he was irrelevant and he came across as very weak, after promising to redouble his efforts against some kind of unnamed terrorism. What possible bearing does the Spanish Inquisition have on the current situation? It comes across like someone trying to be pals with a misbehaving kid rather than trying to teach them right and wrong.

[lamboguy]

my guess is that it really doesn't matter what this president says or doesn't say. there must be some type of plans going on right now from different army's throughout the world to strike this enemy simultaneously. at least i hope there is.

[HUSKER55]

Sunday, Obummer told Savannah Guthrie that we were doing "everything that can be done" about ISIS.

Yesterday, he said we were going to double our efforts.

So now we will doing twice as much as can be done.



two time what? :confused:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Yeah, if we're already doing everything we can about ISIS, and now we're going to double our efforts, we obviously not doing 'everything' we can about ISIS. In fact, about half, if doubling the effort is really 'enough.'

[reckless]

Obama's the dumb-jock captain on a JV team. (And that JV team in question is most certainly not ISIS.)

[PaceAdvantage]

No, but he was irrelevant and he came across as very weak, after promising to redouble his efforts against some kind of unnamed terrorism. What possible bearing does the Spanish Inquisition have on the current situation? It comes across like someone trying to be pals with a misbehaving kid rather than trying to teach them right and wrong.Not irrelevant...sometimes people should be reminded of their OWN horrific past when it comes to THEIR religion and the KILLING done in the name of...

Doesn't matter how far back...people like to conveniently forget there was plenty of murder, mayhem, bloodshed and TERRORISM in the name of Christ...

[thaskalos]

Not irrelevant...sometimes people should be reminded of their OWN horrific past when it comes to THEIR religion and the KILLING done in the name of...

Doesn't matter how far back...people like to conveniently forget there was plenty of murder, mayhem, bloodshed and TERRORISM in the name of Christ...
When it comes to burning people up...the Roman Catholic Church set the tone. Check to see how the church killed Giordano Bruno.

[Clocker]

sometimes people should be reminded of their OWN horrific past

My own horrific past started on the day of my birth. I bear no responsibility or guilt for the sins of my fathers. Inter-generational guilt is a biblical concept, particularly from the Old Testament. I may be in the minority, not being a person of the book, but I believe that everyone should be judged on, and responsible for, only their own actions.

And even if someone believes that he needs to atone for the wrongs of his forefathers, how is this relevant to the current actions of terrorists? Why bring it up? It is a travesty to discuss our society's past and ISIS' present in the same terms. It is pandering to vermin that should be exterminated. It does nothing to help us deal with the issue, and it encourages the terrorists to push even harder.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Well argued Clocker

[cj's dad]

The USA needs to start killing people randomly in the Arab states that harbor these a---oles. When HST dropped the big ones on Hiroshima and Nagasaki innocents died. I care one rats ass if innocents die in a total demolition of America's enemies in the middle east, aka the cesspool of the world !!

[lamboguy]

above poster has this one 100% correct

[Hank]

Well well well.

Large crowd looking at the burned body of Jesse Washington, 18 year-old African-American, lynched in Waco, Texas, May 15, 1916. (Library of Congress)

[davew]

The USA needs to start killing people randomly in the Arab states that harbor these a---oles. When HST dropped the big ones on Hiroshima and Nagasaki innocents died. I care one rats ass if innocents die in a total demolition of America's enemies in the middle east, aka the cesspool of the world !!


Some of he people there are arguing it is already being done with drone strikes, randomly killing bystanders.

[Clocker]

Well well well.

Large crowd looking at the burned body of Jesse Washington, 18 year-old African-American, lynched in Waco, Texas, May 15, 1916. (Library of Congress)

I don't recognize anyone in the crowd. What is your point?

[JustRalph]

Well well well.

Large crowd looking at the burned body of Jesse Washington, 18 year-old African-American, lynched in Waco, Texas, May 15, 1916. (Library of Congress)


What the hell that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me? Is it a reflex action to run to Racism every time you Lefties get perplexed on complicated foreign affairs?

It's downright distasteful. But you had to show a person burned alive a hundred years ago didn't you? Just to be part of the conversation. Conflict is beyond your faculties. Stay out of the conversation if you have nothing more to add.

[HUSKER55]

Here is the photograph. Take a good look at Jesse Washington’s stiffened body tied to the tree. He had been sentenced to death for the murder of a white woman. No witnesses saw the crime but he allegedly confessed

He was found guilty of murder. He was executed.

it was 1916. get over it.

[Tom]

Not irrelevant...sometimes people should be reminded of their OWN horrific past when it comes to THEIR religion and the KILLING done in the name of...

Doesn't matter how far back...people like to conveniently forget there was plenty of murder, mayhem, bloodshed and TERRORISM in the name of Christ...

Totally, 100% irrelevant.

THIS is a real modern day threat and that reply by a so-called CNC was completely unacceptable.

Just as Hank's obnoxious post is irrelevant to the topic.

Someone commits an atrocity today and you guys go back in time to justify it???

Disgusting. Two more Obamabots.

[Tom]

When it comes to burning people up...the Roman Catholic Church set the tone. Check to see how the church killed Giordano Bruno.

Bla blah, and Greeks joined the Nazis in killing Jews to save their own worthless asses. What your point Thask....that you think everything is justified so you don't have to have the balls to address it.
Not much has changed since the 40s I see.

[Tom]

My own horrific past started on the day of my birth. I bear no responsibility or guilt for the sins of my fathers. Inter-generational guilt is a biblical concept, particularly from the Old Testament. I may be in the minority, not being a person of the book, but I believe that everyone should be judged on, and responsible for, only their own actions.

And even if someone believes that he needs to atone for the wrongs of his forefathers, how is this relevant to the current actions of terrorists? Why bring it up? It is a travesty to discuss our society's past and ISIS' present in the same terms. It is pandering to vermin that should be exterminated. It does nothing to help us deal with the issue, and it encourages the terrorists to push even harder.

Bravo!

A sane person would have taken the opportunity to shout to the world what this women allegedly killed today was doing over there when captured - helping Syrians. ISIS claims to be the salvation of Syria and we blow a perfect time to prove them wrong to the world, but to some, it is more important to have a history lesson! Sick. Very sick.

Christians do not deny the past. Notice Obama was quick to lay blame on Christians and STILL has not called this what it is.

[FantasticDan]

Instead of cherry-picking comments out of context, here are the relevant aspects of the speech. There's more, but this is long enough as it is. My point is there's nothing here to get your panties in a wad, it's just more faux outrage from the usual suspects..

Now, over the last few months, we’ve seen a number of challenges -- certainly over the last six years. But part of what I want to touch on today is the degree to which we've seen professions of faith used both as an instrument of great good, but also twisted and misused in the name of evil.

As we speak, around the world, we see faith inspiring people to lift up one another -- to feed the hungry and care for the poor, and comfort the afflicted and make peace where there is strife. We heard the good work that Sister has done in Philadelphia, and the incredible work that Dr. Brantly and his colleagues have done. We see faith driving us to do right.

But we also see faith being twisted and distorted, used as a wedge -- or, worse, sometimes used as a weapon. From a school in Pakistan to the streets of Paris, we have seen violence and terror perpetrated by those who profess to stand up for faith, their faith, professed to stand up for Islam, but, in fact, are betraying it. We see ISIL, a brutal, vicious death cult that, in the name of religion, carries out unspeakable acts of barbarism -- terrorizing religious minorities like the Yezidis, subjecting women to rape as a weapon of war, and claiming the mantle of religious authority for such actions.

We see sectarian war in Syria, the murder of Muslims and Christians in Nigeria, religious war in the Central African Republic, a rising tide of anti-Semitism and hate crimes in Europe, so often perpetrated in the name of religion.

So how do we, as people of faith, reconcile these realities -- the profound good, the strength, the tenacity, the compassion and love that can flow from all of our faiths, operating alongside those who seek to hijack religious for their own murderous ends?

Humanity has been grappling with these questions throughout human history. And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. Michelle and I returned from India -- an incredible, beautiful country, full of magnificent diversity -- but a place where, in past years, religious faiths of all types have, on occasion, been targeted by other peoples of faith, simply due to their heritage and their beliefs -- acts of intolerance that would have shocked Gandhiji, the person who helped to liberate that nation.

So this is not unique to one group or one religion. There is a tendency in us, a sinful tendency that can pervert and distort our faith. In today’s world, when hate groups have their own Twitter accounts and bigotry can fester in hidden places in cyberspace, it can be even harder to counteract such intolerance. But God compels us to try. And in this mission, I believe there are a few principles that can guide us, particularly those of us who profess to believe.

And, first, we should start with some basic humility. I believe that the starting point of faith is some doubt -- not being so full of yourself and so confident that you are right and that God speaks only to us, and doesn’t speak to others, that God only cares about us and doesn’t care about others, that somehow we alone are in possession of the truth.

Our job is not to ask that God respond to our notion of truth -- our job is to be true to Him, His word, and His commandments. And we should assume humbly that we’re confused and don’t always know what we’re doing and we’re staggering and stumbling towards Him, and have some humility in that process. And that means we have to speak up against those who would misuse His name to justify oppression, or violence, or hatred with that fierce certainty. No God condones terror. No grievance justifies the taking of innocent lives, or the oppression of those who are weaker or fewer in number.

And so, as people of faith, we are summoned to push back against those who try to distort our religion -- any religion -- for their own nihilistic ends. And here at home and around the world, we will constantly reaffirm that fundamental freedom -- freedom of religion -- the right to practice our faith how we choose, to change our faith if we choose, to practice no faith at all if we choose, and to do so free of persecution and fear and discrimination.

[thaskalos]

Bla blah, and Greeks joined the Nazis in killing Jews to save their own worthless asses. What your point Thask....that you think everything is justified so you don't have to have the balls to address it.
Not much has changed since the 40s I see.

My point, Tom, is that these types of atrocities have happened before...and not necessarily 400 years ago. In this very country, black people were burned and lynched...and many eyewitnesses to these atrocities are still alive today. The way some people are carrying on here...one would think ISIS is venturing into uncharted territory when it comes to brutality. They are not. Pick up a book and read some world history...it's all been done before...and in much greater numbers.

Yes...ISIS is a murderous group that should be hunted down and eradicated. But they are not the worst that our world has ever seen.

This is the second time that I have seen you comment about Greeks joining the Germans in killing the Jews during WW II...even though I posted video links in another thread which showed the type of heroism that the Greeks showed against the German and the Italian armies. There are traitors everywhere, and these traitors weren't only in Greece...they were in all the occupied countries of Europe. I know you don't like to hear this...but the USA didn't exactly rush to help the Jews during that time-period either...even though they were afforded the opportunity.

You keep blaming the Greeks for helping the Germans against the Jews...but I have yet to see you blame the GERMANS...who were the ones who orchestrated that mess to begin with. Poor little hardworking German citizens. Let's not blame them for putting a madman in power...and bringing the world at the brink of disaster...not once, but TWICE! The German citizens didn't know what their leaders were up to...nor did they have any idea that they were gassing and incinerating millions of people. But when I said on this very site some time ago that the Greek citizens didn't know what their leaders were up to during the recent economic disaster that they found themselves immersed in...it was you yourself who was quick to point out to me that the Greek citizens deserved what they got...because they were the ones who voted their leaders into power.

But, hey...you might be right. Maybe all is forgiven with the German citizens, because they make such nice cars. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Dan tries to justify what the POS said and you try to change the subject to cover your prejudice. You keep trying to blame Christians for the evils of the world and exonerate your own people's atrocities, which came far more recently than anything the Church ever did.

When ISIS makes its way to Greece, I will make some popcorn.
After all, they are not the worst thing to happen.

And Dan, that speech had zero to do with the problem.
We need a leader, a CNC, and we get a girly and sniveling coward.

[FantasticDan]

Tom, try not to be so angry on a Saturday morning. Be angry later after a day of losing bets, like the rest of us :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Hard not to be angry when human lives are just used as political fodder by the disgusting life-forms known as democrats. ISIS gets more support from the US than anywhere else in the world.

I look at Obama killing Osama not a a good thing as much as a John Gotti parallel,
one thugh killing his boss to take over the role of head terrorist and then really advancing the crimes.

Obama is a terrorist.
He is responsible for ISIS.
Clinton was a founding Father of Al Qeda, Hussein Obama is the founder of ISIS.

[thaskalos]

Dan tries to justify what the POS said and you try to change the subject to cover your prejudice. You keep trying to blame Christians for the evils of the world and exonerate your own people's atrocities, which came far more recently than anything the Church ever did.

When ISIS makes its way to Greece, I will make some popcorn.
After all, they are not the worst thing to happen.

And Dan, that speech had zero to do with the problem.
We need a leader, a CNC, and we get a girly and sniveling coward.
We all have our prejudices, Tom...and that includes you. If you could only read your own posts with an unprejudiced mind...

When you want to make a comment...then everything has to do with everything. You will bring up all kinds of unrelated things in order to make your case. But when someone else tries to make a point...then every prior event is off-limits. Nothing can be related to anything else. :rolleyes:

You can make popcorn any time you want...it doesn't matter to me in the least.

[thaskalos]

Hard not to be angry when human lives are just used as political fodder by the disgusting life-forms known as democrats. ISIS gets more support from the US than anywhere else in the world.

I look at Obama killing Osama not a a good thing as much as a John Gotti parallel,
one thugh killing his boss to take over the role of head terrorist and then really advancing the crimes.

Obama is a terrorist.
He is responsible for ISIS.
Clinton was a founding Father of Al Qeda, Hussein Obama is the founder of ISIS.
Who could argue with you when you are making sense... :rolleyes:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Hard not to be angry when human lives are just used as political fodder by the disgusting life-forms known as democrats. ISIS gets more support from the US than anywhere else in the world.

.

Really? I'd have to vote for the Saudis, the largest state sponsors of fomenting terrorism in the world. Of course the Saudis changed course when they realized ISIS was a threat to....well....the Saudis.

[Tom]

But when someone else tries to make a point...then every prior event is off-limits. Nothing can be related to anything else.

Your point is that Christians were bad.
No one disagreed with that.
But it has nothing to do with what is going on in the real world.
You forget, it was a Muslim murdered we are outraged about.

Your connection to reality is tenuous. What possible point was there in your repeated drivel? We should just allow ISIS to continue because, hey what difference does it make?

Most are talking about how do we stop this madness, yours point was you don't like God. You have nothing to offer. As usual.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Your point is that Christians were bad.
No one disagreed with that.
But it has nothing to do with what is going on in the real world.
You forget, it was a Muslim murdered we are outraged about.

Your connection to reality is tenuous. What possible point was there in your repeated drivel? We should just allow ISIS to continue because, hey what difference does it make?

Most are talking about how do we stop this madness, yours point was you don't like God. You have nothing to offer. As usual.

Here's my issue with you on this matter. Please don't blow a gasket; you seem more fired up than usual today. You and I had an exchange about a year ago. I said we should stay the hell out of the Middle East. You agreed in no uncertain terms. Fast forward a year and it sure seems like you're Monday-morning quarterbacking on the matter.

[thaskalos]

Here's my issue with you on this matter. Please don't blow a gasket; you seem more fired up than usual today. You and I had an exchange about a year ago. I said we should stay the hell out of the Middle East. You agreed in no uncertain terms. Fast forward a year and it sure seems like you're Monday-morning quarterbacking on the matter.
This is hardly the first time that Tom blows a gasket. Let him fume...and I'll get the popcorn.

[thaskalos]

Most are talking about how do we stop this madness, yours point was you don't like God. You have nothing to offer. As usual.
What do YOU have to offer except for hatred? When did you ever offer any practical solution to solve anything? With you...it's always "let's go anywhere and blow up everything".

Half the time you are coming on here and saying that America shouldn't waste anytime "helping out" in foreign matters...and the other half of the time you want America to blow up ANYBODY...no matter if it's our business or not.

Let off some steam in REAL life, Tom...don't save it all for the internet. This bottled-up hostility is very unhealthy.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I find most of Tom's posts as whimsical and light-hearted.

[thaskalos]

I find most of Tom's posts as whimsical and light-hearted.
You should stop around here more often...

[Saratoga_Mike]

Sarcasm, Dr. Thaskalos.

[thaskalos]

Sarcasm, Dr. Thaskalos.
Sorry...your sarcasm was well-disguised. :)

[Marshall Bennett]

At least Tom puts it all out on the table, doesn't hide anything. I may not agree with everything Tom says, but at least he doesn't pretend and take sides with whoever is winning on any given day. I see a lot of that here.

[thaskalos]

At least Tom puts it all out on the table, doesn't hide anything. I may not agree with everything Tom says, but at least he doesn't pretend and take sides with whoever is winning on any given day. I see a lot of that here.
Tom has no respect for any opinion that differs from his...and he voices his disapproval in the loudest and most vile way. To Tom...all democrats are freeloaders who would starve without their government handouts...while the republicans are all hard-working citizens, who would refuse a government check even if it was handed to them. But he has an approving audience here...and can get away with anything.

Who but Tom could get away with proclaiming that Clinton was responsible for Al-Qaeda and Obama was responsible for ISIS...without ANYBODY here raising his voice in disagreement?

[Ocala Mike]

I give Tom a well-deserved pass; after all, he has to live near Rochester, NY year-round. 8-month winters will mess you up pretty good.

[fast4522]

Tom has no respect for any opinion that differs from his...and he voices his disapproval in the loudest and most vile way. To Tom...all democrats are freeloaders who would starve without their government handouts...while the republicans are all hard-working citizens, who would refuse a government check even if it was handed to them. But he has an approving audience here...and can get away with anything.

Who but Tom could get away with proclaiming that Clinton was responsible for Al-Qaeda and Obama was responsible for ISIS...without ANYBODY here raising his voice in disagreement?

Liken this to the Titanic, but be aware when its time for the lifeboats there will be too many Tom's in charge because of natural stupidity. It will be on you at that time to decide where that stupidity rests, not that it will do you or your progeny any good.

[tucker6]

Who but Tom could get away with proclaiming that Clinton was responsible for Al-Qaeda and Obama was responsible for ISIS...without ANYBODY here raising his voice in disagreement?
The answer is that hyperbole doesn't deserve a response most times. I side with Tom's ideology, but leave the over-the-top stuff in the trash can where it belongs. Besides, what is worse. Tom claiming as you show above, or some posters claiming the right leaning posters on here are a bunch of nazis and racists. Tom pokes fun at public figures. In general, the left attacks posters.

[thaskalos]

The answer is that hyperbole doesn't deserve a response most times. I side with Tom's ideology, but leave the over-the-top stuff in the trash can where it belongs. Besides, what is worse. Tom claiming as you show above, or some posters claiming the right leaning posters on here are a bunch of nazis and racists. Tom pokes fun at public figures. In general, the left attacks posters.

You are right, Tucker. The right seldom attacks posters here...:rolleyes:

[tucker6]

You are right, Tucker. The right seldom attacks posters here...:rolleyes:
You have to admit, H4C, Mostie, and Cappy hurt your side.

[HUSKER55]

well at least he doesn't dig up crap from over 100 years ago and act like it was yesterday.

[Tom]

I give Tom a well-deserved pass; after all, he has to live near Rochester, NY year-round. 8-month winters will mess you up pretty good.

We have two season - winter and almost winter! :lol:

Thask is pissed off because he is not able to take what he dishes out.
He keeps attacking Christians for things hundreds of years ago, but gets riled up when I do the exact same thing about his people's atrocities not so long ago. Simple solution if you can't take the heat, shut up.

I stand by my accusations of Clinton and Obama 100%.
Playing golf is not leadership.

We have a perfect opportunity right now to form a coalition of not only nations, but MUSLIM nations who are finally ready to stand up to the this nonsense, but we get no action, not even a good speech. We get warned about getting on our high horse and whining about the Spanish Inquisition.

We should be taking the lead here and enabling the Middle East to stand up to terrorism but like Thask, Obama has nothing.

I posted yesterday that Obama should have spoken to the world about how the ISIS was a phony and no savior of Syria, that the women they said they killed was. But again, nothing.

My two suggestions Thask, where are yours?
Oh, bury your head in the sand, I forgot.

[Tom]

Really? I'd have to vote for the Saudis, the largest state sponsors of fomenting terrorism in the world. Of course the Saudis changed course when they realized ISIS was a threat to....well....the Saudis.

Obama, Saudis.,..what difference?
Yes, I say Obama has done more to enable ISIS that anyone.
And continues to do this today, at 6:00 pm.

[Tom]

Really? I'd have to vote for the Saudis, the largest state sponsors of fomenting terrorism in the world. Of course the Saudis changed course when they realized ISIS was a threat to....well....the Saudis.

Obama, Saudis.,..what difference?
Yes, I say Obama has done more to enable ISIS that anyone.
And continues to do this today, at 6:00 pm.

[Tom]

To Tom...all democrats are freeloaders who would starve without their government handouts...while the republicans are all hard-working citizens, who would refuse a government check even if it was handed to them.

When did you lose your left eye?
You are only seeing half the world.

Have you missed the lefties posts here who say all business owners are rich bastards who need to support everyone?

Lame.

[thaskalos]

Thask is pissed off because he is not able to take what he dishes out.
He keeps attacking Christians for things hundreds of years ago, but gets riled up when I do the exact same thing about his people's atrocities not so long ago. Simple solution if you can't take the heat, shut up.

Learn a little history, Tom. It won't kill you...I promise.

http://www.iahushua.com/WOI/us_nazis.htm

[thaskalos]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

[Tom]

You are nothing but a spoiled little child, Thask.
I pointed out the Greeks' fondness for killing Jews to show you how it was as irrelevant to the topic of today as your repeated bashing of Christians.

You have no clue what is going on around you.
You mock my religion and act like a spoiled brat when I return the favor.
You better go the children's thread with H4C because you even more infantile
that he is. You don't even know what the argument is about. Brilliant. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, don't forget, Joe Kennedy and the Nazis

(Someone email Gus a clue)

[thaskalos]

You are nothing but a spoiled little child, Thask.
I pointed out the Greeks' fondness for killing Jews to show you how it was as irrelevant to the topic of today as your repeated bashing of Christians.

You have no clue what is going on around you.
You mock my religion and act like a spoiled brat when I return the favor.
You better go the children's thread with H4C because you even more infantile
that he is. You don't even know what the argument is about. Brilliant. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, don't forget, Joe Kennedy and the Nazis

(Someone email Gus a clue)

Oh...is that why you brought "my people" up? To show me that your lame accusations about the Greek people had nothing to do with our thread here? Funny...it didn't seem that way.

I never attacked Christians with my comments...I attacked the Roman Catholic Church -- which is an institution. I attacked them because they haven't been attacked enough for what they've done. It took the Pope 400 YEARS to acknowledge and apoligize for the atrocities that they committed against some of the most brilliant scientists of that time-period. Yes...the church's crimes occurred 400 ago...but, why was their apology held up for 400 years?

There is plenty of blame to go around in regard to the atrocities against the Jews in WW II...and the U.S. corporations played a starring role. To single out the Greeks there is typically pathetic of you.

PS...
If I were as spoiled a little child as you are...I would answer you in an entirely different manner. But I refuse to give you the reply that you truly deserve.

[fast4522]

Ridiculous, this is 2015 where no one gets a free pass. Links to the past are subjective. The only thing that counts is the threat we all face now because of inaction and lack of leadership. Really wtf does this guy know off the green.

[TJDave]

I pointed out the Greeks' fondness for killing Jews to show you how it was as irrelevant to the topic of today as your repeated bashing of Christians.


Actually, not true. For the most part, Greeks behaved honorably, even heroically with regard to their Jewish countrymen, including the majority of Orthodox clergy.

[thaskalos]

Actually, not true. For the most part, Greeks behaved honorably, even heroically with regard to their Jewish countrymen, including the majority of Orthodox clergy.
As I said before...there are traitors everywhere. But they can't overshadow the heroic acts of the general populace.

http://survivor-story.com/bishop-mayor-saved-275-jews-greece/#.VNca3PnF-ap

[Greyfox]

Actually, not true. For the most part, Greeks behaved honorably, even heroically with regard to their Jewish countrymen, including the majority of Orthodox clergy.

:ThmbUp: Yes. I've heard more stories about Greek resistance and freedom fighting against the Nazis than any other types.

[Show Me the Wire]

Since the Institution the Roman Catholic Church was brought up as an example. Here is an example, by oral testimony, how the Institution saved thousands of Jews.



http://www.aleteia.org/en/video/pio-xii-e-gli-ebrei-a-roma-5895779554164736

[Tom]

As I said before...there are traitors everywhere. But they can't overshadow the heroic acts of the general populace.



Unless they are Christians.

[Tom]

Actually, not true.

Actually, true.
While the German campaign to kill the Jews is no secret, few in Greece acknowledge that the Germans had the support of Greek administrators and police.

http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/6341/features/the-betrayal-of-salonikas-jews/

And still, not relevant to this thread about ISIS.
You two have trouble focusing.

I guess you support ISIS because they area killing off the Christians in the Middle East?

[fast4522]

ISIS burns man up: from start of the thread.

At some point we need to get to where we should be with ISIS, kill them ALL. They are the ones who have the big problem with religion, we should not. Notice I did not refer to any religions but a fanatic sect who has vowed to kill us.

[HUSKER55]

and we should kill them all. But look at who is in office.

[fast4522]

Yeah, their employee of the month. :bang: :bang:

At some point we as a people have to come together for what is best for this country.

[Clocker]

The Crusader thing was so lame Andrea Mitchell wasn't having any of it.

From Meet the Press:

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: You don't use the word Crusades, number one, in any context right now. It's just it's too fraught. And the week after a pilot is burned alive, in a video shown, you don't lean over backwards to be philosophical about the sins of the fathers. You have to deal with the issue that's in front of you or don't deal with it at all.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/02/08/andrea_mitchell_rips_obama_prayer_speech_after_a_p ilot_is_burned_you_dont_lean_over_backwards_and_be _philosophical.html

[HUSKER55]

well she made the proper assessment of the situation.

notice that our CNC decided to squat and piss.

[classhandicapper]

We can save a lot of time by just saying that Obama is an embarrassment.

Yes, we should equate some Christians from close to a 1000 years ago that were in part responding to prior Muslim aggressions in Europe to guys that are beheading people people on a regular basis right now. He should have worked his way up to that idiocy. He could have asked the sons and daughters of Europeans whose ancestors weren't even in the America during slavery to pay reparations first. What a nit.

[ArlJim78]

after those prayer breakfast comments nobody should be confused anymore about what Obama is all about. it was beyond outrageous to reference the crusades which happened 400 to 500 years before the discovery of the new world. Christians are being slaughtered, heads cut off, the pilot was burned alive now, in the present day, and he reaches back to the Crusades for some kind of moral equivalency? I don't see how people can tolerate this jackass.

let's not forget this gem when he accidently spoke the truth.
bMUgNg7aD8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

[PaceAdvantage]

My own horrific past started on the day of my birth. I bear no responsibility or guilt for the sins of my fathers. Inter-generational guilt is a biblical concept, particularly from the Old Testament. I may be in the minority, not being a person of the book, but I believe that everyone should be judged on, and responsible for, only their own actions.

And even if someone believes that he needs to atone for the wrongs of his forefathers, how is this relevant to the current actions of terrorists? Why bring it up? It is a travesty to discuss our society's past and ISIS' present in the same terms. It is pandering to vermin that should be exterminated. It does nothing to help us deal with the issue, and it encourages the terrorists to push even harder.Because people like to present the notion that what is going on in the world today is somehow unique or particularly barbaric...it's not...probably not even close...

With that said, please don't be so simple as to take my words or Obama bringing the fact up that I or Obama are somehow condoning what is happening today or trying to excuse it or anything silly like that...just putting it into a little perspective, which people LOVE to gloss over...

[PaceAdvantage]

Well argued ClockerI don't see how. He's not arguing against my point...seems like he completely missed it, and instead took the classic knee jerk reaction and assumed I was somehow excusing or trying to lessen the atrocities that are happening today.

Miss.

[PaceAdvantage]

Totally, 100% irrelevant.

THIS is a real modern day threat and that reply by a so-called CNC was completely unacceptable.

Just as Hank's obnoxious post is irrelevant to the topic.

Someone commits an atrocity today and you guys go back in time to justify it???

Disgusting. Two more Obamabots.Clueless and totally missing my point...but not surprising, as I expected this...

The biggest joke is that you somehow interpret my post as justifying anything. Critical thinking not your strong point in this particular instance.

[PaceAdvantage]

Christians do not deny the past.Yeah...right...

[PaceAdvantage]

Your point is that Christians were bad.
No one disagreed with that.
But it has nothing to do with what is going on in the real world.
You forget, it was a Muslim murdered we are outraged about.

Your connection to reality is tenuous. What possible point was there in your repeated drivel? We should just allow ISIS to continue because, hey what difference does it make?

Most are talking about how do we stop this madness, yours point was you don't like God. You have nothing to offer. As usual.I'm no Obama fan by a longshot, but it's kind of sick how far over the top you and others are going here in response to those whom you :17: MISLABEL as JUSTIFYING anything...nobody, including Obama, was looking to justify anything.

He made a passing point to remind those who look at what is happening today as if it's some horror UNIQUE to MUSLIMS...it's not...never has been...never will be...

A lot of you out there need to take a step back and stop responding to something THAT ISN'T THERE!!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Tom has no respect for any opinion that differs from his...and he voices his disapproval in the loudest and most vile way. To Tom...all democrats are freeloaders who would starve without their government handouts...while the republicans are all hard-working citizens, who would refuse a government check even if it was handed to them. But he has an approving audience here...and can get away with anything.

Who but Tom could get away with proclaiming that Clinton was responsible for Al-Qaeda and Obama was responsible for ISIS...without ANYBODY here raising his voice in disagreement?ANYBODY? What, you don't count?

It gets sillier and sillier in here some days.

[Greyfox]

Rex Murphy, a former Rhodes Scholar from Newfoundland, Canada, has recently commented on President Obama's recent remarks about Islam and Christianity.

The fact that Obama has previously denied that these Islamic terrorists are even Islamic is commented on.
Also Murphy points out that while Christians were committing horrific deeds in the past, Muslims were doing some pretty horrendous acts as well.

Murphy points out that western leaders have never blamed "all Muslims" for this terrorism since the 9-11 attacks.
But he finds it particularly strange that Obama would take a swipe at Christianity just two days after a Jordanian pilot was burned to death.
The article in it's entirety can be read at:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/07/rex-murphy-in-obamas-impulse-to-absolve-islam-he-offers-a-rebuke-to-christianity/

[Greyfox]

To quote Rex Murphy:

"But it is a very displaced analysis that seeks to offer corrections to Christianity during a period of Islamic turmoil, and seeks out forgotten sins to ignore those so very close to mind."

[Tom]

Yeah...right...

Maybe you haven't moved on yet, but most of us have.
If you say that other thing was not your intent, I accept that, even thought the timing of it suggests not.

I could have posted about worse earthquakes on 9/12/01. Just to put in perspective.

[classhandicapper]

after those prayer breakfast comments nobody should be confused anymore about what Obama is all about. it was beyond outrageous to reference the crusades which happened 400 to 500 years before the discovery of the new world. Christians are being slaughtered, heads cut off, the pilot was burned alive now, in the present day, and he reaches back to the Crusades for some kind of moral equivalency? I don't see how people can tolerate this jackass.

let's not forget this gem when he accidently spoke the truth.
bMUgNg7aD8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

To me, it doesn't matter which church he goes to or what religion he says he is.

What matters is that his "heart" is more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jews despite the fact that x% of Muslims are behaving like savages, causing political and economic turmoil, killing Christians, Jews and anyone else that disagrees with them, and endangering our own country on religious grounds when we are mostly Christians. He's essentially a traitor. Everything else is lip service used to mute the political fallout from whenever he opens his mouth and tells us what he really thinks.

[HUSKER55]

does anybody here see history repeating itself or is it just me?

[DJofSD]

It only rhymes.

[thaskalos]

ANYBODY? What, you don't count?

It gets sillier and sillier in here some days.
Well...if I believe Tom...then I sure don't count for much... :)

[Clocker]

With that said, please don't be so simple as to take my words or Obama bringing the fact up that I or Obama are somehow condoning what is happening today or trying to excuse it or anything silly like that...just putting it into a little perspective, which people LOVE to gloss over...

I understood that you were not trying to excuse anything, and that you were trying to put it into perspective. My point is that it does not need to be put into perspective. Any reasonably intelligent person knows the past sins of this country and of Christianity and condemns them. But the perspective of our past sins does not and should not mitigate our outrage at the sins of ISIS, and therefore is irrelevant to that issue. ISIS is either evil or it is not. How evil it is relevant to other evils does not matter. It doesn't need perspective, it is an absolute.

Further, it is your prerogative as an individual to try to put it into perspective, but I have a big problem with the "leader of the free world" doing it in the way that he did. I think it irresponsible for Obama to stand up in front of the world and suggest that outrage at beheading or burning alive is getting on a high horse. What ISIS does is what it is, viewed from afoot or on horseback. His words distracted from the issue and implied a moral equivalency between ISIS and the Crusaders. The Crusades, by the way, still carry a particularly bad connotation in the Muslim world, and mentioning them the way he did is further pandering to Muslims.

Also, Obama must consider the politics of his statements. It is unfortunate, but image is important in this world, and his image was not that of a strong leader of a strong country. And as a practical matter, what he said served no purpose, it did nothing to help him or the country. He should have known that, but he could not resist the chance to preach.

[ArlJim78]

I'm no Obama fan by a longshot, but it's kind of sick how far over the top you and others are going here in response to those whom you :17: MISLABEL as JUSTIFYING anything...nobody, including Obama, was looking to justify anything.

He made a passing point to remind those who look at what is happening today as if it's some horror UNIQUE to MUSLIMS...it's not...never has been...never will be...

A lot of you out there need to take a step back and stop responding to something THAT ISN'T THERE!!!!!
Why was it important to remind people that what is happening now is not unique? How that makes any difference is beyond me. Does our policy depend upon whether it is unique or not? Does that help us put it in perspective why the Jordanian pilot was incinerated in public and broadcast on TV? Does that help us to understand the motivations of these people?
I'm just curious what you think was the point of this perspective.

Why did he feel that he needed to scold the Christian leaders in that room to get off their high horses?

He tries to lecture everyone about everything but the man is an idiot.
He supposedly is a Christian but he never talks about any of the great contributions of Christians like he does Islam. And yet he puts the Crusades on modern day Christians yet modern day Muslims who are cleansing Christians wherever they can are not even referred to as Islamic. Every occurrence they talk about extremists or as if it was a random crime. He just referred to the Paris attack as a random shooting. Ft. Hood was workplace violence.

No there was only one purpose for him to make those remarks and you missed it entirely.

[fast4522]

Perhaps a Pace Advantage reset is in order here, we all should not focus on sins of the fathers but instead the ones of today. By doing just that we all can have our chins hit the table because there is no shortage of the current ugliness.

[HUSKER55]

WELL THERE IS ONE THING THIS THREAD HAS PROVEN AND THAT IS HOW WARS START.

[DJofSD]

WELL THERE IS ONE THING THIS THREAD HAS PROVEN AND THAT IS HOW WARS START.
I believe it proves something else.

[HUSKER55]

I believe it proves something else.

You are probably right. There was a time when I wanted to be right all the time. As I grew older it became important that I was right more often than not by the end of the day.

Now......at the end of the year,... if I am more corret than not I consider it a major success. It is early February. :D

[DJofSD]

Well, I believe it proves more than one thing which includes yours. We're in one of those both-and situations.

[Tom]

The Crusades - a reaction to the aggression of......Muslims! ta ta!

[PaceAdvantage]

To me, it doesn't matter which church he goes to or what religion he says he is.

What matters is that his "heart" is more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jews despite the fact that x% of Muslims are behaving like savages, causing political and economic turmoil, killing Christians, Jews and anyone else that disagrees with them, and endangering our own country on religious grounds when we are mostly Christians.I doubt very much he's aligned with anyone or anything except himself, his public image and his legacy...

I doubt Obama is a very religious man. I believe he went to church because it suited his public image as a future politician...this applies to probably a LOT of public figures...

Obama is a left-wing liberal. Left-wing liberals, as a whole, are more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jews (I still can't figure out why Jews vote predominantly Democrat...it's obviously a social issues thing)...

The left-wing dominated media practically glorifies anytime a Christian commits an atrocity, while at the same time minimizing as much as possible the same atrocity committed by a Muslim...even going so far as not printing the name of the perp until they absolutely have to...go figure why...I don't know.

And just attend some of those left-wing anti-rich marches...remember the whole Occupy Wall Street movement? Anti-Semitic rhetoric ALL OVER those demonstrations...blatant, in your face stuff. And left-wing liberal to the core.

So the fact that Obama appears to favor Muslims over Christians and Jews should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the evolution of the Democratic Party over the years. He is the party and they are him. That's why they love him so much to begin with...his roots are Islamic (his father...his time spent in Indonesia...all right up the left-wing ally).

[Clocker]

To the extent that Obama is religious, all the indications I have seen point to the Black Liberation Theology of Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Wright is recognized as as a leader of that dogma. A major tenet of Liberation Theology is social justice in this world, which certainly correlates with redistribution of wealth.

I think that Obama's foreign policy is based more on politics than religion. The first point is that he doesn't like foreign policy. He just wants the problems to be settled and go away so he can deal with his big domestic issues like global warming and income inequality and making rich bastages pay their fair share.

And he still thinks that he can personally negotiate peaceful solutions, as he said during the 2008 campaign. It is not that he favors Muslims, it is that he is pandering to them. He sees Iran growing more powerful in the area, and thinks he can reach a grand bargain with them. Same with the Taliban.

[fast4522]

My two cents are Mike is making big bucks here at PA, so in that light I am trying to ease up on points "he does not need this shit"

That does not in any way mean I am going to blow warm air for the guy, so I do not agree with everything as follows. . . . .

His alignment is with Muslims because he had that published in his book, it should be in 100% with these United States of America.

I actually know a few life long democrats who are middle of the road on more than I would credit those here, and they can not stand this guy. To expound that last point one would have to conclude there are a good percentage life long democrats that may be not as extreme left as this guy.

The fat lady did not sing yet and there is much more to evaluate over the next year.

[PaceAdvantage]

Your definition of big bucks must be different than mine...lol

[thaskalos]

Your definition of big bucks must be different than mine...lol
Don't be so modest, Mike...you are worth every penny. :)

[Marshall Bennett]

A few of my friends over the years were actually democrats. :)

[Hank]

I doubt very much he's aligned with anyone or anything except himself, his public image and his legacy...

I doubt Obama is a very religious man. I believe he went to church because it suited his public image as a future politician...this applies to probably a LOT of public figures...

Obama is a left-wing liberal. Left-wing liberals, as a whole, are more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jews (I still can't figure out why Jews vote predominantly Democrat...it's obviously a social issues thing)...

The left-wing dominated media practically glorifies anytime a Christian commits an atrocity, while at the same time minimizing as much as possible the same atrocity committed by a Muslim...even going so far as not printing the name of the perp until they absolutely have to...go figure why...I don't know.

And just attend some of those left-wing anti-rich marches...remember the whole Occupy Wall Street movement? Anti-Semitic rhetoric ALL OVER those demonstrations...blatant, in your face stuff. And left-wing liberal to the core.

So the fact that Obama appears to favor Muslims over Christians and Jews should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the evolution of the Democratic Party over the years. He is the party and they are him. That's why they love him so much to begin with...his roots are Islamic (his father...his time spent in Indonesia...all right up the left-wing ally).

PA OT should be renamed Opposite world or bizarro world.This post is classic pa ot. Why do I say this?..[Obama is a left-wing liberal]This is simply not correct.Obama uses left rhetoric when the politics call for it but he consistently governs center Right.The most compelling evidence of this was his willingness to cut SS and medicare The only D POTUS ever to do so.

.http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/03/us-usa-fiscal-idUSBRE91P0W220130303

[Left-wing liberals, as a whole, are more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jew] Again Obama is NOT and does not. Again compelling evidence is the fact that Obama has bombed 7 Muslim countries, Bush bombed 4 Obama increased drone strikes of Muslim countries to five times the Bush era level.Obama seems to have a strange way of demonstrating his "alignment" with Muslims.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-04-14/obama-is-flying-blind-on-drones

[The left-wing dominated media] Six giant profit hungry corporations own virtually all US media.Why would Giant profit hungry corporations promote a leftist agenda?


http://www.factandmyth.com/liberal-media/liberal-msm-bias

[PaceAdvantage]

PA OT should be renamed Opposite world or bizarro world.This post is classic pa ot. Why do I say this?..[Obama is a left-wing liberal]This is simply not correct.Obama uses left rhetoric when the politics call for it but he consistently governs center Right.The most compelling evidence of this was his willingness to cut SS and medicare The only D POTUS ever to do so.

.http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/03/us-usa-fiscal-idUSBRE91P0W220130303

[Left-wing liberals, as a whole, are more aligned with Muslims over Christians and Jew] Again Obama is NOT and does not again compelling evidence is the fact that Obama has bombed 7 Muslim countriesWell, you are discounting the fact that Obama himself has admitted that he does things that are opposite of his actual beliefs (see the recent thread on his Gay Marriage beliefs and what he stated publicly during the campaign).

I, on the other hand, take his public deception into account when I make my statements, thus, not bizarro by any means.

[classhandicapper]

Considering the Crusades in the Context of the Current Conflict with Radical Islamists


http://blog.adw.org/2015/02/considering-the-crusades-in-the-context-of-the-current-conflict-with-radical-islamists/

[JustRalph]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/17/isis-reportedly-burns-alive-45-people-in-western-iraqi-town/

+45 burned alive

This Group is fast becoming one for the ages

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Do-r0CUAAk9-6.jpg:medium

[Saratoga_Mike]

H4C:

You do realize the vast majority of DHS employees will continue to work regardless of the funding situation, correct?

In any case, Reps in the House will most likely use the District Court decision (out yesterday) as cover and pass a clean DHS bill, perhaps in the form of a CR. That assumes the 5th Circuit CofA doesn't reverse the district court decision before next week.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Well, you are discounting the fact that Obama himself has admitted that he does things that are opposite of his actual beliefs (see the recent thread on his Gay Marriage beliefs and what he stated publicly during the campaign).

I, on the other hand, take his public deception into account when I make my statements, thus, not bizarro by any means.

Hillary does this, too - recall her war vote (as recalled by Bob Gates in his book). I didn't care for GWB, but his surge (in Iraq) certainly wasn't popular at the time, yet he went forward.

[Tom]

The house has passed a bill to provide funding.
If it is defeated or vetoed, the dems will be the ONLY ones responsible.
H4C, this is what the real world is like.

We have the power - you guys get in line or you pay the price. WE have provide the funding. Now, suck it up, vote yes, the shut up. :lol: :lol: :lol: