Ms. Bruce Jenner ?

[cj's dad]

http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-transitioning-woman

So, will his olympic accomplishments be moved to the women's side of the record book? Sicko !!

[Stillriledup]

No, but anyone who lost to him in those events will have to deal with the shame of getting their tails kicked by a chick.

[Robert Fischer]

He probably sees it as a business move for money and attention.

That whole clan is basically a media whoring syndicate.

[jballscalls]

He probably sees it as a business move for money and attention.

That whole clan is basically a media whoring syndicate.

I think he sees it as finally being true to himself. Or herself I should say. Many people transition for one reason or another. IMO this explains a lot of his plastic surgery earlier in his life, feeling uncomfortable with who he was and trying to change himself.

It's not a sickness or sicko. I'd suggest talking with a trans person and listening to their reasons and I think you'd be more sympathetic to their journey than just calling them a sicko. I used to think it was really messed up and weird until I worked with some trans people at grad school and realized that they felt like the opposite sex to their inner core and lived every part of their life as the opposite sex, just didn't have the parts. That's all it is really is parts.

[098poi]

I am kind of surprised at some of the comments. If this comes to pass I am sure it is not a decision that was made lightly. I wish Bruce all the best moving forward.

[Robert Fischer]

I think he sees it as finally being true to himself. Or herself I should say. Many people transition for one reason or another. IMO this explains a lot of his plastic surgery earlier in his life, feeling uncomfortable with who he was and trying to change himself.

It's not a sickness or sicko. I'd suggest talking with a trans person and listening to their reasons and I think you'd be more sympathetic to their journey than just calling them a sicko. I used to think it was really messed up and weird until I worked with some trans people at grad school and realized that they felt like the opposite sex to their inner core and lived every part of their life as the opposite sex, just didn't have the parts. That's all it is really is parts.
I think you just typed a lot of good things, that I agree with in general regarding transgender issues.

However, my impression is that this specific transition is a business move. The jenner/kardashian clan currently make their fortune from being media whores.

Maybe it isn't 100% fake. Maybe there is genuine self reflecting transition stuff intertwining with the media-whoring reality tv, celeb bullshit going on? Who knows.

[jballscalls]

I think you just typed a lot of good things, that I agree with in general regarding transgender issues.

However, my impression is that this specific transition is a business move. The jenner/kardashian clan currently make their fortune from being media whores.

Maybe it isn't 100% fake. Maybe there is genuine self reflecting transition stuff intertwining with the media-whoring reality tv, celeb bullshit going on? Who knows.

I don't know much about that family but from what I do know, you're correct in that they will do anything for publicity. I would be surprised if there isn't a documentary that goes along with this.

There was a really good show on amazon called Transparent that is very similar to the timing and situation (many adult children etc) that I thought was really good and covers a transitioning person in their 60's.

[cj's dad]

I guess that if I had gone to "grad school" I would be a more "enlightened" individual and would not consider BJ's actions that of a twisted person.

[jballscalls]

I guess that if I had gone to "grad school" I would be a more "enlightened" individual and would not consider BJ's actions that of a twisted person.

Curtis I know you're never changing your mind on this, or most things and that's cool. I was just sharing my experience of actually meeting people going through this transition and found meeting and talking to them a good learning experience.

[Rise Over Run]

I would be surprised if there isn't a documentary that goes along with this.

That's because there is........

From the article:
"And according to a different Jenner insider, the 65-year-old reality star is filming his momentous journey, to be shared with viewers on a docu-series this year. "It will air when he is ready to be open about his transition," the source tells PEOPLE."

[jballscalls]

That's because there is........

From the article:
"And according to a different Jenner insider, the 65-year-old reality star is filming his momentous journey, to be shared with viewers on a docu-series this year. "It will air when he is ready to be open about his transition," the source tells PEOPLE."

at least this could be a learning experience into what goes on for a person transitioning gender. Their other shows are pretty empty and vapid.

[Rise Over Run]

at least this could be a learning experience into what goes on for a person transitioning gender. Their other shows are pretty empty and vapid.

Oh, I'm sure that's what they've had in mind all along. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol:

[ArlJim78]

I don't know much about that family but from what I do know, you're correct in that they will do anything for publicity. I would be surprised if there isn't a documentary that goes along with this.

There was a really good show on amazon called Transparent that is very similar to the timing and situation (many adult children etc) that I thought was really good and covers a transitioning person in their 60's.

hypothetical question; your 65 yo father comes to you and says he want to become a woman. Do your support him going ahead with it, or do you try to dissuade him?

[cj's dad]

hypothetical question; your 65 yo father comes to you and says he want to become a woman. Do your support him going ahead with it, or do you try to dissuade him?

So what have you and dad decided?:rolleyes:

[Steve 'StatMan']

The current Mr. Jenner must have a lot of issues. Too complicated an issue. I'll just say that some people have too much money and leave it at that for now.

[Robert Goren]

After living with the Kardashians, is it any wonder that Jenner would be confused about a lot of things, including his sexual identity. Somehow I get the feeling that this something he got talked into with promise of lots of notoriety and money. Hopefully he will come to his senses before it is too late.

[Greyfox]

I used to think it was really messed up and weird until I worked with some trans people at grad school and realized that they felt like the opposite sex to their inner core and lived every part of their life as the opposite sex, just didn't have the parts. That's all it is really is parts.

You're right in what you are saying to a point.
Men of this nature believe that there's an inner woman within them that is trying to get out.
Nevertheless, any way you carve it, most of these people are "messed up" and there is a huge weird element to their quest.
For Grandpa to want to become Grandma is just plain nutty, strange, and weird.

[jballscalls]

You're right in what you are saying to a point.
Men of this nature believe that there's an inner woman within them that is trying to get out.
Nevertheless, any way you carve it, most of these people are "messed up" and there is a huge weird element to their quest.
For Grandpa to want to become Grandma is just plain nutty, strange, and weird.

Are they messed up and weird or just not having the experience internally and externally that the majority is having?

I guess I just try to always remember that my experience is not someone else's experience so who am I to say they're wrong.

Trans folks are the next civil rights fight we'll see IMO.

[Grits]

I've not ever known anyone that crossed over. There. That's a nice way of putting it, gentlemen. :kiss: However, I feel for anyone that goes through all this. A couple of things I've known for years. He's gotta take a lot of female hormone therapy and he will have to live as a female for a year, maybe two, in order to transition. Putting the two words, "do transgender" into the Google search box, instantly, I got these four phrase responses.

--do transgender males have balls
--do transgenders have surgery
--do transgenders go to hell
--do transgender athletes have an advantage

To these I'd say the following:

--you're kidding, right? To do all this? Hell, yes. Cut or not.
--not all of them.
--not at any greater rate than the rest of us.
--not sure. Contact Renee Richards.

Here ended my transgender search. (I decided not to do the photos.)

"Good luck, Bruce, on being, Brenda; they're gonna light you up with female hormones. You think the Olympics were tough????" :lol:

[thaskalos]

He looks good for a 65-year old lady.

[PhantomOnTour]

Jenner wants to win the Women's Decathlon gold medal at the Olympics in Brazil in 2016.
It would nicely compliment the men's decathlon gold he already has

[Greyfox]

Are they messed up and weird or just not having the experience internally and externally that the majority is having?

I guess I just try to always remember that my experience is not someone else's experience so who am I to say they're wrong.

Trans folks are the next civil rights fight we'll see IMO.

I never said that they were wrong.
But just because we have the technology and hormones to transform them somewhat, doesn't make them right either.
I said that there is a huge element of weirdness to their quest.
Many have issues that will exist after the sex change that will not be resolved. In fact those issues may become magnified.
While some may feel better about themselves after the operation, a large segment won't. Some will wish they never had the operation.

[Grits]

Jenner wants to win the Women's Decathlon gold medal at the Olympics in Brazil in 2016.
It would nicely compliment the men's decathlon gold he already has

No Phantom, won't work. She'll never pass the drug test. No way. :lol:

Jason, please, understand, I can find humor everywhere. It keeps me moving. But on the serious side, this group has made inroads, already. Insurance, private; medicare, medicaid. No longer the automatic turn down of the past.

[Greyfox]

He looks good for a 65-year old lady.

I understand you're single.
Are you saying that you'd date her (him)? :D

[reckless]

When is Hillary going to announce ...? Ooops, wrong thread. :)

[classhandicapper]

Never mind transitioning to a woman late in life after multiple marriages and having children, Jenner failed the "weird" test when he started hanging out with the Kardashians. He/she is an obvious whack job no matter which sex he/she chooses.

[zico20]

I could understand this more from a young person in their late teens to early 20s doing this, but come on, a 65 year old. Seems to be there are other reasons behind this. He really is messed up.

[thaskalos]

I understand you're single.
Are you saying that you'd date her (him)? :D

Well...it was a dream of mine to date an Olympic champion...but this wasn't quite the scenario that I had in mind.

[Tom]

--do transgender athletes have an advantage

Only if thier balls are deflated. :eek:

[HUSKER55]

When is Hillary going to announce ...? Ooops, wrong thread. :)



:lol: :lol: :lol:

wouldn't tthat be the berries...

[davew]

After living with the Kardashians, is it any wonder that Jenner would be confused about a lot of things, including his sexual identity. Somehow I get the feeling that this something he got talked into with promise of lots of notoriety and money. Hopefully he will come to his senses before it is too late.


I agree with the first part, but not the second. I am pretty sure he got dumped because of telling plans to Kris.

I have to wonder if he was injecting steroids or hGH or something when he was a competitive Olympian - that finally wore off messing with his brain.

[proximity]

I have to wonder if he was injecting steroids or hGH or something when he was a competitive Olympian .....

or what was really in those wheaties.... :eek:

[mountainman]

He's an avid golfer, so I wonder if he loses some distance? Seriously. I wish him the best and hope whatever torments him can be resolved. How, though, can an iconic athlete reconcile himself to voluntarily sacrificing strength and power? Surely, his accomplishments are part of his self-image.

Now I wonder if he still works out.

[mountainman]

or what was really in those wheaties.... :eek:

The ONLY cereal my folks ever brought into the house. And NOTHING, my friend, tastes worse than Wheaties. The box they came in would have had more flavor.

Which, come to think of it, might make a fun topic. The products your parents shoved down your throat.

[proximity]

The ONLY cereal my folks ever brought into the house. And NOTHING, my friend, tastes worse than Wheaties. The box they came in would have had more flavor.

Which, come to think of it, might make a fun topic. The products your parents shoved down your throat.

until i read about bruce jenner, lima beans were probably the most disturbing thing in the world to me.... :)

[JustRalph]

It only took him 60 yrs to realize he was standing in the wrong restroom?

Bullshit

[Clocker]

Career revival.


http://moonbattery.com/graphics/Bruce-Jenner_Froot-Loops.jpg

[cj's dad]

This entire escapade is total freakin bullshit- born a man you are a man born a woman you are a woman-- good God almighty. what have we become ??

[Valuist]

The ONLY cereal my folks ever brought into the house. And NOTHING, my friend, tastes worse than Wheaties. The box they came in would have had more flavor.

Which, come to think of it, might make a fun topic. The products your parents shoved down your throat.

I would liken Wheaties to tree bark. Not pleasant tasting at all.

[dav4463]

Wheaties true value reveals itself in the bathroom later. :)

[reckless]

This entire escapade is total freakin bullshit- born a man you are a man born a woman you are a woman-- good God almighty. what have we become ??

Do you really want to know the answer to your last question, Curtis?

But both sadly and truthfully, we all know what we've become.

God Bless America and guide us out of this cesspool.

[jballscalls]

This entire escapade is total freakin bullshit- born a man you are a man born a woman you are a woman-- good God almighty. what have we become ??

Seems a bit simplistic. Some people are born with xx chromes and some xy. But some are XXy or XYY. Some are intersex. Sex and Gender aren't just two poles with no grey area.

There are many kids who are transgendered who start transitioning at a very young age. They know innately that they aren't the right sex. Imagine the inner struggle of feeling to your core you are a woman and you're labeled and viewed as a man? That would be somewhat distressing i'm sure.

Here's a story Barbara Walters did about a young trans person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJw3s85EcxM

[tucker6]

Do you really want to know the answer to your last question, Curtis?

But both sadly and truthfully, we all know what we've become.

God Bless America and guide us out of this cesspool.
America doesn't like God anymore. Merry Christmas, err, I mean Happy Holidays.

[jballscalls]

America doesn't like God anymore. Merry Christmas, err, I mean Happy Holidays.

yeah because God and Christmas can be found no where in our country

[reckless]

America doesn't like God anymore. Merry Christmas, err, I mean Happy Holidays.

You hit it out of the park with just two pitchy comments. WTG, tucker6.

Any country that doesn't like God or Christians, hates the Jews and Israel, supports terrorism as President Barack Obama does, 'admires' and defend freaks and low-lives such as Bruce Jenner, Honey Boo Boo's parents, Michael Jackson, Bill and Hillary Clinton, A Rod, Woody Allen, Rachel Madow, Al Sharpton.... oh my Lord, I could on all day and night.... has become a country that has lost its way, plain and simple.

[reckless]

yeah because God and Christmas can be found no where in our country

Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.

[jballscalls]

hypothetical question; your 65 yo father comes to you and says he want to become a woman. Do your support him going ahead with it, or do you try to dissuade him?

I talk with him about it, listen to his reasons and concerns and support whatever he decides to do. It's not like he's hurting anyone. I would want my father to be happy.

Certainly it would be difficult in the sense that it's a very huge change, but it's not my decision to make. And I'd be concerned that my father would face discrimination and hate like we've seen in this thread, and I'd share that concern with him.

My dad died when he was 47 and i'm trying to imagine having this conversation with him and it made me laugh cause my dad would be more of the curtisonthebay side of the thought spectrum on this issue. :)

[jballscalls]

Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.

Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage :)

I get what you're saying though.

God/Christianity were pretty teflon for a long time so I imagine it's difficult now if you're a believer to see a large number of people who are not only vocal against your beliefs, but are nasty and derogatory towards your beliefs.

[Robert Fischer]

It's a complicated topic (this transitioning 'stuff')

I guess that jumping into religious or political stuff is one way to avoid thinking about it.

[reckless]

Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage :)

Really? I haven't noticed, Jason. :)

[ArlJim78]

I talk with him about it, listen to his reasons and concerns and support whatever he decides to do. It's not like he's hurting anyone. I would want my father to be happy.

Certainly it would be difficult in the sense that it's a very huge change, but it's not my decision to make. And I'd be concerned that my father would face discrimination and hate like we've seen in this thread, and I'd share that concern with him.

My dad died when he was 47 and i'm trying to imagine having this conversation with him and it made me laugh cause my dad would be more of the curtisonthebay side of the thought spectrum on this issue. :)
Same here, my dad died when he was 39 and wasn't what you would call open minded.

Personally I don't think you can change who you are. Okay you can change how you dress, put on makeup, wear jewelry and high heels and women's clothes if that makes you feel better, but you're still the same person.
Once you start trying to change things like with hormones or surgery I think it is another matter and I can't see how it would lead to happiness. My thinking is just be yourself and people should respect that even if who you are is a bit outside the mainstream.

[jballscalls]

Same here, my dad died when he was 39 and wasn't what you would call open minded.

Personally I don't think you can change who you are. Okay you can change how you dress, put on makeup, wear jewelry and high heels and women's clothes if that makes you feel better, but you're still the same person.
Once you start trying to change things like with hormones or surgery I think it is another matter and I can't see how it would lead to happiness. My thinking is just be yourself and people should respect that even if who you are is a bit outside the mainstream.

I think I agree with everything you said, with one small exception. The "who you are" is the opposite sex than your body. I trans person (m to f for example) has male parts but feels as though they're a woman. So they wouldn't be changing "who they are", they're just changing their body to match who they are.

sorry to hear about your dad. I know I miss mine each day.

[Valuist]

Bruce Jenner wants to become a woman? Yeah I suppose the next thing your going to tell me is that OJ Simpson is a murderer.

[TJDave]

Jason, you miss the point.

God, Christmas, Christians and Jews are being institutionally attacked by 'establishment' entities the world over: in government, in popular media outlets, in the entertainment and culture industry and to a too large extent, in the feckless yet powerful Fortune 1000 corporate entities and elites.

God is being attacked? The all-powerful creator of the universe? Poor baby. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Originally Posted by jballscalls
Liberals are being attacked institutionally on Paceadvantage :)


Most here should be institutionalized! :eek:

[Grits]

Jason, a serious question, since you've worked with these men and women. Can I ask you.. what is the suicide rate among the transgender population? I would guess that it is higher than the normal rate. Is there a breakdown of statistical data that would indicate the rate before transition and after a successful transition. .... As we've both noted, this is a lengthy process, a grueling one. And not everyone is deemed a surgical candidate.

I believe there's tremendous wisdom in what ArlingtonJim has written.

[jballscalls]

Jason, a serious question, since you've worked with these men and women. Can I ask you.. what is the suicide rate among the transgender population? I would guess that it is higher than the normal rate. Is there a breakdown of statistical data that would indicate the rate before transition and after a successful transition. .... As we've both noted, this is a lengthy process, a grueling one. And not everyone is deemed a surgical candidate.

I believe there's tremendous wisdom in what ArlingtonJim has written.

It's like 9 or 10 times the rate for transgender folks in terms of attempts. The number I remember was 40% of people who are transgender or gender non-conforming have attempted suicide.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... gender non-conforming...

I don't know what this means but it's an entertaining sequence of words. They'll probably need to re-brand that one eventually.

[thaskalos]

Bruce Jenner is entitled to the "pursuit of happiness", as we all are...and he is free to go as far as he chooses in order to find it -- as long as he isn't infringing on the rights of others, in the process. But why the need to keep the world tuned in to his "momentous journey"? IMO..."private lives" are called that for a reason.

[Grits]

It's like 9 or 10 times the rate for transgender folks in terms of attempts. The number I remember was 40% of people who are transgender or gender non-conforming have attempted suicide.

I was hoping it wasn't that high. This is really sad.

I agree with what Thask has written. Private lives are better. I don't understand Jenner's need to chronicle "the long and winding road". I will say, though, I'm not sure I'll read it. Part of me thinks its like looking at a YouTube video, as I did a day or so ago. Now and then, we wish we could unlook at something..

[PhantomOnTour]

I bet Jenner likes his coffee with a splash of half-n-half

[MutuelClerk]

Bruce Gender.

[Tom]

Bruce Jenner is entitled to the "pursuit of happiness", as we all are...and he is free to go as far as he chooses in order to find it -- as long as he isn't infringing on the rights of others, in the process. But why the need to keep the world tuned in to his "momentous journey"? IMO..."private lives" are called that for a reason.

Maybe that is his pursuit of happiness.

[JustRalph]

Now that he's possibly going to jail, still want to be a woman?

[Relwob Owner]

Now that he's possibly going to jail, still want to be a woman?


The paparazzi situation has gotten way, way out of control in the last 10-15 years and this sort of thing was a ticking time bomb. I get the feeling they were the ultimate cause of this, not Jenner

[davew]

Now that he's possibly going to jail, still want to be a woman?


I herd he was in a bad car crash a couple hours ago - why might he go to jail? doesn't CA have a transgender jail?

[JustRalph]

I herd he was in a bad car crash a couple hours ago - why might he go to jail? doesn't CA have a transgender jail?

Reading that he rear ended a car, pushing it left of center where it was hit head-on by a Hummer no less. The pics look like that might be accurate.

He would probably only get jail time if he is on drugs or DWI. I'm sure more to come. This includes prescription meds

California used to be very tough on this kind of stuff. They do have "felony DWI" but it's been years since I dealt with it.......but this could be bad......

[Tom]

I thought he was going to jail for his part on the TV show! :eek:

[Clocker]

He would probably only get jail time if he is on drugs or DWI. I'm sure more to come. This includes prescription meds


Just saw on the news, some local law officer eager for face time on Fox said that Jenner took a breath test at the scene and passed (should he be saying that on TV?) and that he volunteered for a blood test.

[JustRalph]

Just saw on the news, some local law officer eager for face time on Fox said that Jenner took a breath test at the scene and passed (should he be saying that on TV?) and that he volunteered for a blood test.

That's good news :ThmbUp:

[098poi]

What a tragic thing to happen!

[Tom]

That he passed?

[098poi]

No he rear ended a vehicle that was pushed into traffic and a woman was killed. Supposedly he was being chased by 5 cars full of paparazzi.

Another news site says they were following him but he was not being chased. Still a sad situation.

[Valuist]

We finally found that there's a bigger attention whore in the Kardashian family than Kim: its Bruce. He'll even get into a big accident to get into the headlines.

[Grits]

We finally found that there's a bigger attention whore in the Kardashian family than Kim: its Bruce. He'll even get into a big accident to get into the headlines.

Wow. Pretty unkind attack.

Even attention whore's don't go to such great a length as to get someone killed. :(

[JustRalph]

Criminal charges I would say may be likely

http://www.ora.tv/newsbreaker/bruce-jenner-car-crash-reportedly-caught-camera-lead-manslaughter-charges-0_386nka4f5n7g

[rastajenk]

Nothing screams "Reality Series" like a tranny in the hoosegow.

[Clocker]

Warning: politically incorrect.


http://3-ps.googleusercontent.com/xk/3g7-M_6SHODJZQ7Hi-qpGp3vAZ/www.powerlineblog.com/i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2015/02/Jenner2-copy.jpg,qresize=325,P2C401.pagespeed.ce.Ztii3Zu0Z P37Pq3LIvWO.jpg

[JustRalph]

Clocker, that's great. Especially as I sit here looking at the 75 dollar camera ticket I just opened in the daily mail. Generated in Houston on Valentine's day.

They have a very nice shot of my wife's Jag half way thru a left turn in an intersection.......with a nice red light above it :bang:

[Clocker]

Clocker, that's great. Especially as I sit here looking at the 75 dollar camera ticket I just opened in the daily mail. Generated in Houston on Valentine's day.

They have a very nice shot of my wife's Jag half way thru a left turn in an intersection.......with a nice red light above it :bang:

Is she identifiable in the picture, and is the car in her name? I'm sure it varies from state to state, but a friend got a ticket like that and the driver was obviously his step son. The instructions simply said if you are not the driver, send back the ticket and a copy of your driver's license that shows it is not you. He did, and never heard about it again.

[Clocker]

Also check the local traffic law on red lights. Some places the law is that if any part of the vehicle is into the crosswalk before the light turns red, it is not a violation.

[Tom]

Stay out of Italy.
ISIS threatening to strike in Rome and throw homosexuals off the Leaning Tower of Pizza.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-threatens-take-over-rome-5209275

[davew]

Is she identifiable in the picture, and is the car in her name? I'm sure it varies from state to state, but a friend got a ticket like that and the driver was obviously his step son. The instructions simply said if you are not the driver, send back the ticket and a copy of your driver's license that shows it is not you. He did, and never heard about it again.


They pass them along to collection agencys (that are buddies with the officials) - after a year or so, another letter may arrive from the collection agency along with their $500 collection fee...

[davew]

Jenner has surgery scheduled for summer - plans are to become a ?lesbian?

[tucker6]

Jenner has surgery scheduled for summer - plans are to become a ?lesbian?
He didn't need surgery to become a lesbian. I love women and it didn't require surgery.