Stronach dispute

[Racey]

Just passing this along I understand this will be resolved within the week....let us hope my info is correct

[Stillriledup]

Lets hope the "Defense" isnt caving into unreasonable demands.

[SoCalCircuit]

What would be unreasonable? With NYRA cancelled every other day the mid-atlantic union has literally had nothing to offer since the new year and zero bargaining power in this dispute.

[Stillriledup]

What would be unreasonable? With NYRA cancelled every other day the mid-atlantic union has literally had nothing to offer since the new year and zero bargaining power in this dispute.

Anything other than a small, incremental increase is unreasonable.

[SoCalCircuit]

I was under the impression that the bigger issue was that they really wanted harness and non-racing tracks to pay more than tracks producing a decent project such as Parx or Delaware. I think that's pretty reasonable but I wonder if the Union is budging at all on that area. They seemed like that was a non-negotiable issue early on.

[LottaKash]

One more time please.... :D

[SoCalCircuit]

Whoops iphone issues!

[Robert Goren]

Pox on all their houses. They are just fighting over who will get the proceeds from screwing over the bettor.

[grimm7]

Hope so! Enough is enough! I heard they were resuming talking this week. From what I read Mid-Atlantic Coop is under pressure to get this resolved. Stronach has the prime racing dates at this time and makes more money from his Xpressbet wagers than wagers from these "brick & mortar" facilities. Wondering what kind of deal Mid-Atlantic will accept?

[Manila]

Hope the impasse continues on, its the only way the mid-Atlantic will realize they need a decent product in order to survive. Right now they are "buyers" of content, while Monarch is a supplier of content (GP, Tampa, SA). Why should the mid-Atlantic live off of other's better signals?

[grimm7]

Why would you want this to continue and for how long? Most betting facilities live off other tracks signals by giving the customers a choice to bet track of choice. The bettors who have nothing to do with the negotiations are the one suffering by not being able to wager on prime winter races. Attendance is suffering at these facilities and employees are being layed off or having hours cut.

[Racey]

They get this done as it just kills Saturday action when the bettors are missing out on quality 5 stakes a day at gulfstream .....and the turf racing at Tampa Santa Anita. My info came from a union rep......who knows I hope he is right.

[Manila]

I agree the fan is suffering, but why should a track that is putting on a quality show be paid peanuts so that an OTB parlor can gain? If a bettor wagers $1000 on a race, why should the sender get $40, while the OTB keeps $160. The sender's $40 then gets split $20 to their local horsemen for purses and $20 for the track. Who does the OTB split with? Are they giving 1/2 to their employees, highly doubtful. We all hope to reduce takeout, but with the model the way it is there is no room to do this. The OTB needs to pay fair market share so that the sender's can continue to put on a quality product.

[Tom]

I agree the fan is suffering, but why should a track that is putting on a quality show be paid peanuts so that an OTB parlor can gain?

Because your customer are hurting.
Tell me, once this is settled, and you get your pound of flesh, what will you do remedy the screw job you pulled on your customers.

Or don't they count then, either?

[grimm7]

Made some good points but the average bettor doesn't care about how much is being paid out. They just want to wager on track of choice.

[Manila]

If all is fairly divided, then takeout adjustments can be made. That is where the pound of flesh is coming from, the player in the long run. The only one with the margin of profit is the OTB and therefore they have the rebates. If the margin slides to the product producers, then takeout can be cut. Simple math.

[Stillriledup]

Made some good points but the average bettor doesn't care about how much is being paid out. They just want to wager on track of choice.

They should care because once the track in question plunders and pillages all the money they can from everyone else, you, the bettor, are next.

[Tom]

If the margin slides to the product producers, then takeout can be cut. Simple math.

The margin is where it is because tracks were stupid years ago, no one else.
And you really expect me to believe lower take outs are in the long term plans?

Why put it on the table, and part of the package?
Simpler math.

[baconswitchfarm]

I agree the fan is suffering, but why should a track that is putting on a quality show be paid peanuts so that an OTB parlor can gain? If a bettor wagers $1000 on a race, why should the sender get $40, while the OTB keeps $160. The sender's $40 then gets split $20 to their local horsemen for purses and $20 for the track. Who does the OTB split with? Are they giving 1/2 to their employees, highly doubtful. We all hope to reduce takeout, but with the model the way it is there is no room to do this. The OTB needs to pay fair market share so that the sender's can continue to put on a quality product.


Let me try to do the math. Stronach is getting 6% from the mid-atlantic tracks and wants 12%.So on a 20% take out the mid- atlantic tracks would get 8% on a $1000 wager. That is $80. Because these are all brick and mortar tracks they are mostly splitting this money with their horsemen. That gives them $40. Now $500 a day or more to your tote company,Roberts communications tv money, Pay all your employees , insurance , state licensing fees, electric, heat , upkeep on your facility. Then with what is left you get to pay ssi taxes on your employees, federal and state income tax, pari-mutuel tax , and thousands in trpb background checks required by each jurisdiction. So at a 12% signal fee you may break even or make a crumb. Assuming nothing major happens at your facility or no one slips and falls. So for taking the stronach signal at that price you would get the honor of busting your ass and breaking even. You do know you can break even sitting on the couch. Not taking his signal at that price is no loss in revenue at all.
Meanwhile it cost him to close to 0 to send these tracks his signal and he still spends the same amount to put on his product. He is the only one losing revenue in this situation. That's why these tracks have been able to hold out so long. But as always , the players get the worst of it.

[Stillriledup]

Let me try to do the math. Stronach is getting 6% from the mid-atlantic tracks and wants 12%.So on a 20% take out the mid- atlantic tracks would get 8% on a $1000 wager. That is $80. Because these are all brick and mortar tracks they are mostly splitting this money with their horsemen. That gives them $40. Now $500 a day or more to your tote company,Roberts communications tv money, Pay all your employees , insurance , state licensing fees, electric, heat , upkeep on your facility. Then with what is left you get to pay ssi taxes on your employees, federal and state income tax, pari-mutuel tax , and thousands in trpb background checks required by each jurisdiction. So at a 12% signal fee you may break even or make a crumb. Assuming nothing major happens at your facility or no one slips and falls. So for taking the stronach signal at that price you would get the honor of busting your ass and breaking even. You do know you can break even sitting on the couch. Not taking his signal at that price is no loss in revenue at all.
Meanwhile it cost him to close to 0 to send these tracks his signal and he still spends the same amount to put on his product. He is the only one losing revenue in this situation. That's why these tracks have been able to hold out so long. But as always , the players get the worst of it.

Good post Bacon
And, not only do you lose money by taking the signal, but you lose MORE money because bettors are betting the Stronach signals instead of other signals that beget more profit. So, you lose out there too.

[SoCalCircuit]

By the same note, the Stronach Group has invested a ton in its products over the past couple years in Florida and California. So these tracks have all the standard operating costs plus multi million dollar investments that need to be paid off. Anyway aren't a large majority of the mid-atlantic tracks casino fueled?

[MONEY]

A 5/2 winner pays $7.00 at either Santa Anita or Sunland.
When the dispute is settled I will not go back to betting any of the Stronach Group tracks. Now back to the game.

[proximity]

And you really expect me to believe lower take outs are in the long term plans?


this.

there's never going to be any significant takeout reduction.

if uncle frank was really a friend of the player he could give his current on-track customers significant live racing rebates right now. instead it's energy drinks, horse wizard machines,...... :bang:

[Stillriledup]

this.

there's never going to be any significant takeout reduction.

if uncle frank was really a friend of the player he could give his current on-track customers significant live racing rebates right now. instead it's energy drinks, horse wizard machines,...... :bang:

He's a friend of "de horsemen". The players are an afterthought, if a thought at all.

[Racey]

Sais earlier in the week some progress will be made sooner than later. vague at best good races this weekend as well was hoping this would be resolved by the weekend.

[mostpost]

Just passing this along I understand this will be resolved within the week....let us hope my info is correct
Passing what along? What will be resolved? Is there some link that is visible to everyone else, but invisible to me.

[Racey]

I heard from a union source talks were progressing just hoped it would be resolved this weekend

[SoCalCircuit]

Any chance at this point this will be resolved by the fountain of youth? I'll make the morning line on that happening 30-1

[grimm7]

Any chance at this point this will be resolved by the fountain of youth? I'll make the morning line on that happening 30-1
I do not have any faith in these two groups doing anything that benefits the player. Learning to live without Stronach and waiting for springtime.

[Racey]

I miss gulfstream & santa anita leaning on Fg & Oaklawn that is all I look at.

[SoCalCircuit]

As I mentioned in the other thread, the return of the magna pick 5 makes it even more irritating. That was by far my favorite wager. Looks like I'll have to start making the trip to AC or Laurel on a weekly basis.