Why money comes in pool so late?

[Inner Dirt]

I wonder why this happens or it is done on purpose? I find it most disturbing when I am thinking of backing up a win bet with a place bet if the payout will be a $5 minimum. I don't understand why the amount bet on even a favorite sometimes can quadruple after the race has already started. With all the high speed communications these days why does it take so long? Annoying when what was a $5 place minimum when the race goes off pays $3.00. It can make the odds when you bet while they are loading meaningless. Can somebody in the know explain why money keeps pouring in up to two minutes after the race finishes? Also I would love to hear all the conspiracy theories.

[tanner12oz]

Everyone is looking at the same screen...seeing the value in the $5 place and then the money pours in.

[horses4courses]

I don't have any conspiracy theories,
but I'm sure there is no shortage of them.

I do know that the days of relying on an odds board
at a small track with miniscule pools are long gone.

So much is bet remotely that cannot be calculated
before the gate has opened that much guesswork
is involved with figuring potential payoffs.
The only solution that I can think of would be
stopping all betting at zero minutes to post.

If you add in conditional wagers on some ADWs,
the problem is amplified. Many of those kick in (or not)
at zero minutes to post. The time lag is a factor again.

Frustrating when you spot value that disappears in running.

[zico20]

One thing that I have been watching intently is when the big favorite's odds change after the race has started. The last 10 or so times a big favorite has a bad break his/her odds always go up after the start. This is becoming rather ridiculous lately.

Also, I pay attention to this in harness racing and when a huge favorite breaks immediately after the start his odds go up, sometimes from 2-5 to 4-5. You can make any conclusion you want. I know mine.

[Inner Dirt]

Everyone is looking at the same screen...seeing the value in the $5 place and then the money pours in.

I understand the money pouring in, but why doesn't it show up till 2 minutes after they cross the wire?

[Dave Schwartz]

I wonder why this happens or it is done on purpose? I find it most disturbing when I am thinking of backing up a win bet with a place bet if the payout will be a $5 minimum.

Consider that the wager YOU make over the web as the horses are loading the gate does not hit the tote board until the horses have reached the 1st call.

Now consider that 60% or more of the total dollars ultimately wagered went down about the same time as yours and you will have your explanation.

[Stillriledup]

I understand the money pouring in, but why doesn't it show up till 2 minutes after they cross the wire?


"Racing" doesnt want to pay for better technology....as they know bettors will bet anyway. The industry is also very hush hush about the tote system....you hear about all the hackers who hack into large corporations, but nobody ever hacks any tracks? ever? Nobody has ever done it? So, that's what they want you to believe...they're just hoping you dont ask questions. who spends more money on "not getting hacked" Sony or the racing industry?

[Inner Dirt]

Consider that the wager YOU make over the web as the horses are loading the gate does not hit the tote board until the horses have reached the 1st call.

Now consider that 60% or more of the total dollars ultimately wagered went down about the same time as yours and you will have your explanation.

I don't buy that excuse for the year 2015. Others have said they had OTB's in New York in 1975 and I am assuming they are tied in to the pools like the ones were when OTBs sprang up in the West 10 years later. I can understand the "late money" issue back 40 years ago when the hand held pocket calculator was considered a technological marvel but not now. I tend to agree with SRU that they flat out have not invested in modern technology. Doesn't make sense that they haven't fixed an issue that every patron despises.

[castaway01]

I don't buy that excuse for the year 2015. Others have said they had OTB's in New York in 1975 and I am assuming they are tied in to the pools like the ones were when OTBs sprang up in the West 10 years later. I can understand the "late money" issue back 40 years ago when the hand held pocket calculator was considered a technological marvel but not now. I tend to agree with SRU that they flat out have not invested in modern technology. Doesn't make sense that they haven't fixed an issue that every patron despises.

Everyone knows they haven't invested in modern technology---what sort of revelation is that? It's a fact. As far as late money, whether you and SRU want to believe hackers or little green men from Mars are betting 10 minutes after the race is over is another story, but racing is using outdated technology and everyone all over the world bets right at post time. The process has been documented many times here and elsewhere. Should the problem be fixed by now? Yes, but it's a multimillion-dollar fix that would require racetracks to (1) cooperate, which they don't do; (2) spend money many of them don't have; (3) put in effort which tracks likely feel won't be worth the trouble because people will find something else to complain about anyway.

[Inner Dirt]

Everyone knows they haven't invested in modern technology---what sort of revelation is that? It's a fact. As far as late money, whether you and SRU want to believe hackers or little green men from Mars are betting 10 minutes after the race is over is another story, but racing is using outdated technology and everyone all over the world bets right at post time. The process has been documented many times here and elsewhere. Should the problem be fixed by now? Yes, but it's a multimillion-dollar fix that would require racetracks to (1) cooperate, which they don't do; (2) spend money many of them don't have; (3) put in effort which tracks likely feel won't be worth the trouble because people will find something else to complain about anyway.

That condescending comment was uncalled for, I never insinuated something corrupt was going on. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I think this sport is basically honest, especially at the large tracks. I know nothing about what technology is in use, that is why I made this post.

[acorn54]

Consider that the wager YOU make over the web as the horses are loading the gate does not hit the tote board until the horses have reached the 1st call.

Now consider that 60% or more of the total dollars ultimately wagered went down about the same time as yours and you will have your explanation.

i think what dave said is all that has to be said about this subject, there are no more casual players in this game. everyone wants to know if they are getting their "money's worth", before they make their wagers.

[Inner Dirt]

i think what dave said is all that has to be said about this subject, there are no more casual players in this game. everyone wants to know if they are getting their "money's worth", before they make their wagers.

Exactly, with the high takeouts and the casual player gone to play slot machines and the lottery the serious player needs to be more diligent than ever. Part of that is getting appropriate odds and not betting when the odds aren't worth the risk. I play mostly Pick 3s as they usually always pay more than parlay, but occasionally I will make a win bet if I like a horse a lot and the other legs of the pick 3 look shaky. This problem of late money severely effecting the odds is getting worse as time goes by as more people are betting at the last second on the internet.

[DJofSD]

I wonder why this happens or it is done on purpose? I find it most disturbing when I am thinking of backing up a win bet with a place bet if the payout will be a $5 minimum. I don't understand why the amount bet on even a favorite sometimes can quadruple after the race has already started. With all the high speed communications these days why does it take so long? Annoying when what was a $5 place minimum when the race goes off pays $3.00. It can make the odds when you bet while they are loading meaningless. Can somebody in the know explain why money keeps pouring in up to two minutes after the race finishes? Also I would love to hear all the conspiracy theories.
To tailgate on what Dave has already posted, there is a problem with the way the tote system is designed and the way it works. The tote system is essentially an electronic version of what used to be a predominately manual system. The frequency the odds and the pools are posted with updates is way too low if you are comparing it to a modern computer system used to track any financial market.

When the tote system only updates every 30 seconds, there is a lot of time for large amounts of both wagers and dollars to flow into the pools. And, as you already know, as it gets closer to post time, those numbers go up significantly.

So the speed of the telecommunications network really doesn't factor into the problem. Nor is it the computers themselves. It is the design of the app which is using the very large windows of time to post the changes to the pools and the updated odds. And while it would be possible to update the tote every second, it would likely run afoul of most punters seeing things change too quickly and not being able to study the board. In my opinion, it would be nice if there was a choice: first, a more traditional tote that would be there for on track bettors and those more comfortable with the current update periods, and then something more modern with much quicker updates for those using computers and algorithms just like in "The Flash Boys."

[MJC922]

Late odds volatility (after the bell) is a scourge in the modern game and should be addressed with modern technology, this is just PCs networked over a WAN this isn't rocket science, I can't see where we should have more than 10 seconds between when money is wagered and when it shows. Network latency is measured in milliseconds. I also don't disagree with SRU, it's entirely possible some people have hooks into some of these systems. There have been incidents so it's not speculation. Each wager should be time-stamped so the system can be audited if necessary and all venues synced with the same timesource. It would be nice to get exchange wagering going on modern hardened technology. If that happens I will gladly pull my money out of these antiquated systems. As long as the track gets a cut there should be no reason for people to resist these changes.

[Inner Dirt]

What makes it more frustrating is it seems almost always my odds drop even when betting long shots. The daily double probables are especially annoying when you are trying to bet varying amounts on a handful of combinations to produce a set return no matter what combo hits.