How do you classify a race being won by a speed or closing effort?

[cutchemist42]

Set lengths back at a certain call? Some other kind of metric?

[fmolf]

frontrunning speed types are generally within a length or 2 of the lead....closers generally hang back about 4 or more lengths and let the pacesetters tire themselves out fighting for the lead.Lots of races are won by pressers who lay 3 or 4 lengths of the leaders keeping pace ....this is called "the garden spot"a horse is running well keeping pace and within striking distance at all times.These horses are said to have tactical speed,meaning they can use a burst of speed as needed to hold or establish their position in the race.

[mountainman]

Set lengths back at a certain call? Some other kind of metric?

Profilers vary on definitions of running styles, what points of call are employed, and proximity to the lead. There is no universal template.

Some even use dynamic, not static, parameters based not on lengths in arrears, but on which call a winner attacks the lead.

Things thus get confusing when one profiler defines a 'front-running' win as anything within 2 lengths at first call, while another requires that a horse led throughout.

Nor does universal wording exist. Some tv-analysts, for instance, restrict the term 'stalking' to a trip that took aggressively close order of the pace, while others consider that as 'pressing.' And vice versa.

[fmolf]

only the pp's can answer these questions.....everybody does define a speed horse differently.....if a horse has all ones in his competitive running lines he is a frontrunning speedtype....if he has shown he can come back to win being in 2nd or 3rd place he is a presser if he has shown ability to run down the leaders from 5 or 6 or more lengths back he is a dyed in the wool closer, in my opinion.

[thaskalos]

I look at the horses and the jockeys in order to make these determinations. Is the horse extending itself under pressure while vying for the early lead...or is it under restraint, just off the pace. If the horse is under restraint, then it is tracking, IMO...even if it's only a length behind.

[maliksealy210]

frontrunning speed types are generally within a length or 2 of the lead....closers generally hang back about 4 or more lengths and let the pacesetters tire themselves out fighting for the lead.Lots of races are won by pressers who lay 3 or 4 lengths of the leaders keeping pace ....this is called "the garden spot"a horse is running well keeping pace and within striking distance at all times.These horses are said to have tactical speed,meaning they can use a burst of speed as needed to hold or establish their position in the race.

Not to open up a wormhole (here we go... :-)) but a lot of profilers will tell you that they don't have a set formula, but instead a by track formula. This allows the explanation where a horse can be considered a closer, but come from closer to the pace at some tracks than others. I'm off to search for few good PPs as an example, to show closers who win with what appears to be different tactics according to the chart, but in actuality appear the same when watching the race.

Hope all of that made sense, we are definitely talking about one of the more "mad science" ways to handicap.

[EMD4ME]

I look at the horses and the jockeys in order to make these determinations. Is the horse extending itself under pressure while vying for the early lead...or is it under restraint, just off the pace. If the horse is under restraint, then it is tracking, IMO...even if it's only a length behind.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

and that is why they call you Thaskalos!

[mountainman]

I'm printing charts right now to update my mnr track-profile for a blog. I'd MUCH rather keep working on my novel, but winter break is flying by, and time will soon become an issue. For anything but changing trends, I don't consider one year a sufficient sample size, and my profile is two years in arrears, but I'm just using data from 2014.

Good post, thask, rider intent and energy exertion certainly play into it.