Your handicapping style and what are your best tracks?

[Inner Dirt]

I would call myself a pace handicapper, basically making Beyer numbers for a horses early splits. Looking for the loan frontrunner and forwardly placed horses where speed does well and closers rarely win. I have developed an advanced method where I can easily compare horses from different tracks.

Any way my best tracks appear to be Aqueduct, Monmouth, Indiana Downs and Charles Town (4.5 furlong races mostly)

I am ok at Finger Lakes, Parx, Penn National, Portland Meadows and Sunland.

For some reason I am horrible on all artificial surfaces (glad they are getting rid of them). I also am a disaster at Santa Anita, Belmont, Saratoga and Churchill Downs. I went the to the Derby in 1999 and didn't cash a ticket all weekend. (Mostly betting pick 3's)

[arw629]

I wouldn't consider myself a great handicapper by any means, but I feel like I have the best feel for NYRA tracks and Parx....I feel that I am at my best at a track if I can find a bias.....I had some nice winners the past few days on runners riding the gold rail at mahoning valley....yesterday i cashed a 25-1, 12-1, a 7-5 chalk that i loaded up on, and a 5-1 in the finale.....no disrespect to sunday silence and easy goer, but if you want to see the 89 preakness recreated for 6 furlong maiden special ohio breds watch yesterday's finale......I had Moon Princess in the finale-an absolute thriller!

[Inner Dirt]

How do you bet Mahoning Valley? Looks like TVG doesn't carry it.

[castaway01]

I've always done well at Delaware...even as the number of race dates has declined and the quality of racing as well, in the last 15 years I've won there 13 out of 15. I think it's because trainer handicapping and early speed are the keys to win, two things I'm actually decent at exploiting.

Parx, which most on here claim to hate betting, because I started there and am familiar with how things work, I do pretty well.

California tracks, or Oaklawn...might as well just light my money on fire before I even place a bet.

[letswastemoney]

Pace handicapper. I like looking at races with a horse that duels hard last time and switches one with a more moderate pace.

I also like pedigree handicapping with maidens.

There is no one right way that fits all races. Each race might call for a different angle or handicapping style.

I fare better at Gulfstream.

If I had to pick one track I was terrible at last year, it was Keeneland. I never got a handle on the new dirt surface. I wouldn't even be surprised if they changed the bias daily or in between races to confuse bettors.

[wisconsin]

I wouldn't even be surprised if they changed the bias daily or in between races to confuse bettors.

What is in it for them? This is a pretty careless statement.

[letswastemoney]

What is in it for them? This is a pretty careless statement.You're right, it was careless. I just didn't have a good feel for Keeneland.

[Bennie]

I enjoy turf racing best but this time of year can be very slow.
I try to stay away from artificial tracks unless there is a race I see loaded with speed and see a horse I like than comes from off the pace.
I look for the same thing in turf races as well as a possible lone speed horse that is at decent odds.

[plainolebill]

Pace handicapping would be pretty close but I also pay attention to oddball situations, races with not much form, etc. I bet Socal track almost exclusively.

I'm really bad with turf races and I should never, ever bet them - but I do.

[Robert Goren]

I am a track bias handicapper. I do well when early speed is hanging on. I see bias that other people don't see sometimes. That serves me, but it has been known to provoke strong responses from other posters when I post my observations here. I am a firm believer in BRIS first quarter speed rating when picking which early speed horse will get the lead.

[Stillriledup]

I am a track bias handicapper. I do well when early speed is hanging on. I see bias that other people don't see sometimes. That serves me, but it has been known to provoke strong responses from other posters when I post my observations here. I am a firm believer in BRIS first quarter speed rating when picking which early speed horse will get the lead.

Doesn't early speed winning mean you get parades of short priced runners who walk to the top and keep going?

I know that when i watch races at tracks that i haven't handicapped and i see a big pack of horses fan across the track and a couple sweep from the back and pass the field at the very end, i don't normally think that what i saw looked like a "formful" result.

On the flip side, if a runner goes right to the top and the field gets strung out and nobody gains and all the horses essentially "hold their position" you don't normally see a bunch of 20-1 hitting the ticket. It happens on occasion, but seems to happen more the other way around.

How does "early speed hanging on" produce more longshot exotic results than if the race "Falls apart" And closers come sweeping from the back?

[letswastemoney]

Doesn't early speed winning mean you get parades of short priced runners who walk to the top and keep going?
I can't speak for him, but if you're patient enough while looking, the situations where speed with value comes.

The other day, I bet on a speed horse named It Takes Heart at Tampa Bay, and he won at 5/1...which I thought was pretty good value on him.

I just skip the races where the quality speed that is probably going to win ends up 3/5 or something.

[plainolebill]

In cheaper races like mdn claimers you'll find situations where a dominant E type defeats all the competition early, then you'll see big prices in the 2nd and 3rd spots.

[Inner Dirt]

Doesn't early speed winning mean you get parades of short priced runners who walk to the top and keep going?

I know that when i watch races at tracks that i haven't handicapped and i see a big pack of horses fan across the track and a couple sweep from the back and pass the field at the very end, i don't normally think that what i saw looked like a "formful" result.

On the flip side, if a runner goes right to the top and the field gets strung out and nobody gains and all the horses essentially "hold their position" you don't normally see a bunch of 20-1 hitting the ticket. It happens on occasion, but seems to happen more the other way around.

How does "early speed hanging on" produce more longshot exotic results than if the race "Falls apart" And closers come sweeping from the back?

The price has a lot to do with what Beyer figures the speed horse has been running compared to the others. If that horse has been running 10 points less than the top figure horses or more you can usually get a $20 and up win mutuel even if the horse looks like lone speed.

[Robert Fischer]

this thread challenges me to come up with words for my style


"comprehensive?" "angle player?"

My game is all about information.

I look at the parimutuel system, the betting rules, the people, and the animals, the betting market, and the race dynamics.

Then I look for inefficiencies in the places where they happen the most.

I guess you can call the processes I use to collect inefficiencies "angles".

Best Track = Gulfstream

[Robert Goren]

Doesn't early speed winning mean you get parades of short priced runners who walk to the top and keep going?

I know that when i watch races at tracks that i haven't handicapped and i see a big pack of horses fan across the track and a couple sweep from the back and pass the field at the very end, i don't normally think that what i saw looked like a "formful" result.

On the flip side, if a runner goes right to the top and the field gets strung out and nobody gains and all the horses essentially "hold their position" you don't normally see a bunch of 20-1 hitting the ticket. It happens on occasion, but seems to happen more the other way around.

How does "early speed hanging on" produce more longshot exotic results than if the race "Falls apart" And closers come sweeping from the back?Actually some my best long shot winners come from Early Speed on the inside. Sure you get some short prices, but a horse has got front in his last 5 races and never finished above 5th and 12 lengths back in those races is going to get odds. Often above 15/1. You have the courage of your convictions to bet a known bad quitter just on bias. most bettors can not pull that trigger. I rarely play exotics so I can't answer questions about them.
Right now I only bet NYRA tracks, but in the past I have bet TX circuit, S.Cal, TB, Maryland, FG, OP, Del and of course, the Nebr. circuit.

[raybo]

I'm primarily a form/pace/field dynamics 'capper, but will also use class and distance ratings in longer dirt and turf races, as well as higher class races, and I also check jockey and trainer records depending on the race. I do not use pace or speed figures, at all, rather I use fps velocities, ala Sartin (personally modified). I do best, and therefore only play at tracks that have higher than average win payouts, regardless of circuit, but my favorites are OP, DeD, EvD, FG, Bel, Sar, Kee. I live in Texas, but never play Texas tracks, because of Texas' laws restricting residents from online wagering, so I have banned myself from betting Texas tracks for the last several years.

As a superfecta specialist (with win betting for cash flow), I use a comprehensive approach because of having to also handicap for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th contenders.

[Overlay]

I favor a comprehensive, quantitative, full-field approach that arrives at a winning probability for each horse or combination in a race through the use of statistics covering the major performance factors and tailored to the various classes and distances, so that I can have visibility of wagering value wherever in the full pari-mutuel spectrum it might appear (which to me is the most important issue that a handicapper has to address), rather than focusing solely on narrowing a race field down to the most probable winner through a process of elimination. In my experience, this approach has served me equally well across the full range of tracks and surfaces.

[arw629]

I can't speak for him, but if you're patient enough while looking, the situations where speed with value comes.

The other day, I bet on a speed horse named It Takes Heart at Tampa Bay, and he won at 5/1...which I thought was pretty good value on him.

I just skip the races where the quality speed that is probably going to win ends up 3/5 or something.

I also had It Takes Heart! That was stealing IMO!

[arw629]

How do you bet Mahoning Valley? Looks like TVG doesn't carry it.

I live 15 minutes from Mahoning Valley. I can drive there and bet or bet it on twinspires.

[arw629]

I take all angles into account when I handicap, but I agree with the early bris figures and agree with what Goren is saying.....I'm not playing parimutually today, but I am playing some cash tournaments on horsetourneys.com......If you don't agree with Goren take a look at race 2 at Aqueduct just now.....The :2: horse Jackie Black was a standout in a short field if you look at how the Big A has been playing and his significantly higher E1 and E2 over the field.....she went off 2nd choice and won by 20 at 6/5....I had her in my 2 head to head tournaments

Every time Goren posts I feel like I'm listening to Vincent D'Ofrio.

[biggestal99]

I am a situational handicapper, depending on the surface, distance and going

I look for overlays at 4-1 or better.

For some races i use final times, others i use fractional times, other inuse pedigree handicqpping and for even 0thers i use bias and trip handicapping.

No really fav track but a favorite few months, august september october when my handicapping seems to peak.

Allan

[EMD4ME]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.

[Stillriledup]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.

I love it!

I bet way less on NY racing because of the "colony" and now great news, Cornelio is coming back! Isnt that wonderful!

[cj]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.

Why would this get you banned here?

[letswastemoney]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.I love Emerald Downs. It was one of the easiest tracks (relatively speaking, since gambling on horses is hard in general) to play last year.

I was hoping Portland Meadows would be as simple, but I couldn't figure out that one.

[cj]

I love Emerald Downs. It was one of the easiest tracks (relatively speaking, since gambling on horses is hard in general) to play last year.

I was hoping Portland Meadows would be as simple, but I couldn't figure out that one.

Emerald is like most tracks though, small pools and after the bell big swings in odds.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would this get you banned here?Good question.

EMD4ME: Like Public Enemy once said, "Don't Believe the Hype!"

[EMD4ME]

I love it!

I bet way less on NY racing because of the "colony" and now great news, Cornelio is coming back! Isnt that wonderful!

He's the reason Jack Dawson died..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The human anchor.

[EMD4ME]

Why would this get you banned here?


Any time you speak the truth (especially against NYRA) it comes with flack. Believe it or not, I am a NYRA fan. However the 2 brothers and their unofficial cousin are becoming unbearable.

[EMD4ME]

Good question.

EMD4ME: Like Public Enemy once said, "Don't Believe the Hype!"

I hear ya PA. Be safe in the snow guys.

[fmolf]

i think your take on the aqueduct races is inaccurate.Do you have any irrefutable proof of the phenomenon you speak of?

[fmolf]

That is quite the tale you are telling...and no i would think Mr. Dutrow is still calling the shots...I guess i am just as naive as a 5 yr. old virgin then!

[EMD4ME]

That is quite the tale you are telling...and no i would think Mr. Dutrow is still calling the shots...I guess i am just as naive as a 5 yr. old virgin then!


No tale my friend. That is why my handle dropped 40% this year. It's no longer about handicapping a horse. It's chemical warfare, which is fine, I am used to that for 25 years plus AND now, it's the 2 brothers and the wannabe almost cousin deciding who will do what/when, on top of all the other obstacles in this game.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic pal. Glad you didn't take it that way.

I'll say it again, I wish Ramon was around to B slap these fake talents back to where they belong (batting 10% each and them having much less control as to what happens out there).

[Stillriledup]

i think your take on the aqueduct races is inaccurate.Do you have any irrefutable proof of the phenomenon you speak of?

EDM made a statement he believes to be true. You seem to not agree. Why do you think what he says isn't true, do you have a specific reason? What's your take.

[lamboguy]

my favorite tracks these days are ASD, Hastings, Northland's. you can't bet any type of money there, but i do well with my small wagers in that place.

[letswastemoney]

Any time you speak the truth (especially against NYRA) it comes with flack. Believe it or not, I am a NYRA fan. However the 2 brothers and their unofficial cousin are becoming unbearable.I really don't like Jose Ortiz in particular. Out of all the jockeys, he is the one I've questioned the most in the past whether he was giving a bad ride on purpose.

He broke on top with Samraat in the Belmont Stakes, then rated him to last. It was unquestionably the worst ride I saw all year, whether or not the connections instructed him to give Samraat that ride.

[thaskalos]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.

Emerald Downs...Emerald Downs...

Is that the track that has all those women jockeys?

[fmolf]

EDM made a statement he believes to be true. You seem to not agree. Why do you think what he says isn't true, do you have a specific reason? What's your take.
I do disagree and my reasoning is this ...what they are purportedly doing would be very hard to orchestrate without the trainers owners and stewards being aware of it,and doing something to correct it.

[Stillriledup]

I do disagree and my reasoning is this ...what they are purportedly doing would be very hard to orchestrate without the trainers owners and stewards being aware of it,and doing something to correct it.

Has there been a time in NY racing where the judges came down on a couple of jockeys for "orchestrating" or doing anything else like not riding out a mount, letting another guy thru on the inside or some other kind of collusion or shenanigans? Because if the judges often come down hard on "race fixers" than i would say jocks would be on the straight and narrow, but if there has never been ONE situation in decades or centuries where a jock was really 'disciplined' for doing something other than whatever they wanted out on the track, than i'm not sure you could say jocks would ever ride as if they knew they would get punished for "shenanigans".

[fmolf]

My advice to people who believe this type of thing is going on is to simply not play.Take up Blackjack or poker , backgammon or any other game that is not being "rigged" by the participants.If this type of thing is going on in the largest racing market in the country I cannot even imagine what happens at the smaller circuits!

[Stillriledup]

My advice to people who believe this type of thing is going on is to simply not play.Take up Blackjack or poker , backgammon or any other game that is not being "rigged" by the participants.If this type of thing is going on in the largest racing market in the country I cannot even imagine what happens at the smaller circuits!

Instead of walking away, my advice would be to try and take advantage of any "shenanigans" that you see on tape and on the replays and try and cash in next time. Isnt' that a better idea?

[fmolf]

Instead of walking away, my advice would be to try and take advantage of any "shenanigans" that you see on tape and on the replays and try and cash in next time. Isnt' that a better idea?
That in my estimation would be nothing more than a guessing game.Guess which jockeys turn it is to win this one.I watch replays and cannot tell when a horse is running out of energy or when a jock is pulling him back!Many many horses speed and fade every day,others simply get outrun or do not get the pace setup needed.

[thaskalos]

Instead of walking away, my advice would be to try and take advantage of any "shenanigans" that you see on tape and on the replays and try and cash in next time. Isnt' that a better idea?
Sure it's a better idea...assuming that the race would be "shenanigans-free", next time. But how do we KNOW that? :)

A game is "honest", or it ain't. And if it's DISHONEST...then the "outsiders" suffer. Dishonesty and a high takeout don't mix well together.

[EMD4ME]

My advice to people who believe this type of thing is going on is to simply not play.Take up Blackjack or poker , backgammon or any other game that is not being "rigged" by the participants.If this type of thing is going on in the largest racing market in the country I cannot even imagine what happens at the smaller circuits!

Correct, so what I do is just cut down and/or stay away from races where they are involved on key contenders.

[EMD4ME]

Emerald Downs...Emerald Downs...

Is that the track that has all those women jockeys?

yeah and they ride better than most men. The only one I don't like is Kubinova. She has ZERO hands, Taylor Rice clone.

[Inner Dirt]

i think your take on the aqueduct races is inaccurate.Do you have any irrefutable proof of the phenomenon you speak of?

Out of all the tracks I have played recently Aqueduct has the least amount of what I call "What the f**k races" where you cannot explain the outcome of the race no matter how hard you try. An example would be a horse who has raced in a half dozen routes without showing speed turns back to 5 furlongs and wires a higher class field, that is a "What the f**k race." Some tracks have 2 or more of those per card, I mostly chalk that up to the fact the horses are dirt cheap. I cannot understand why someone would try to cheat at a track like Aqueduct where the minimum win purse is $10,000 and there would be no cheating unless the owner was in on it. So a jockey stiffs a horse 5 times in a row to drive the odds way up, that would be $50,000 they didn't attempt to win, how much do they have to bet to make all the risk worth while? Also they could get beat by a sharper horse when they decide all systems or go or lose because of poor racing luck.

[cutchemist42]

Win and DD/P3 bettor. i basically just try to find races where I dislike 1/2 faves for DD and 2/3 for P3s.

I'm big into following only 1 track at a time with lots of replays/trip notes/bias notes, and Im big into the pace picture and setup of a race.

[EMD4ME]

Makes handicapping much tougher when you have to be concerned about more than just evaluating the talent of the horses.

Yup...huge turn off. That's why I'd rather play Portland, Turf Paradise, Sam Houston and soon Emerald.

[ReplayRandall]

Win and DD/P3 bettor. i basically just try to find races where I dislike 1/2 faves for DD and 2/3 for P3s.

I'm big into following only 1 track at a time with lots of replays/trip notes/bias notes, and Im big into the pace picture and setup of a race.


Replays are THE way to fly higher above the crowd......Just have to know what to look for, if they're spotted right in return race, and racing no more than 35 days later.....

[Appy]

I basically just try to find races where I dislike 1/2 faves...
I'm big into following only 1 track at a time[/b] with lots of replays/trip notes/bias notes, and I'm big into the pace picture and setup of a race.

I'm big on these things cutchemist42 is big on, along with some other little details to top it off. However, the main thing driving current ROI improvement is learning to specialize according to my statistical success rate at specific conditions.

My favorite tracks to play are (depending on season) NYRA, Laurel, Indiana Downs, Fair Grounds, Oaklawn?, and Santa Anita. Have taken an increased interest this year in Keeneland and GPX.

[taxicab]

@ EMD4ME
The Ortiz brothers(and Franco) aren't stiffing/setting up/fixing anything.
The brothers are both over 25% since the inner opened,and Franco is over 20%.
But more importantly, just pay attention to the barns that use these guys.
Every top barn in NY(excluding Jacobson)uses the brothers on their horses.
Let me tell you how it really works in terms of trainers and their jocks.
They watch every move a jock makes on their horse in a race.
They would be the first ones to recognize if something fishy is going on.
If something suspicious(in terms of a ride) happens on one of their horses they won't even wait until the race has gone official before they give the boy the fifth degree.
The second a jockey pulls anything on a Pletcher/Brown/Rudy{name any major trainer}...the jock is out of favor(and off all mounts)for that barn.
And trainers talk....as soon as word gets out that a jockey is stiffing, it's good night Irene and good luck keeping your business.
There are jockeys out there that stiff.....but the Ortiz brothers/Franco aren't in that grouping.

[Stillriledup]

@ EMD4ME
The Ortiz brothers(and Franco) aren't stiffing/setting up/fixing anything.
The brothers are both over 25% since the inner opened,and Franco is over 20%.
But more importantly, just pay attention to the barns that use these guys.
Every top barn in NY(excluding Jacobson)uses the brothers on their horses.
Let me tell you how it really works in terms of trainers and their jocks.
They watch every move a jock makes on their horse in a race.
They would be the first ones to recognize if something fishy is going on.
If something suspicious(in terms of a ride) happens on one of their horses they won't even wait until the race has gone official before they give the boy the fifth degree.
The second a jockey pulls anything on a Pletcher/Brown/Rudy{name any major trainer}...the jock is out of favor(and off all mounts)for that barn.
And trainers talk....as soon as word gets out that a jockey is stiffing, it's good night Irene and good luck keeping your business.
There are jockeys out there that stiff.....but the Ortiz brothers/Franco aren't in that grouping.

Since you quoted win stats it seems to me that you're just going on the idea that anyone who wins that many races can't be stiffing too many horses, am i warm on that theory? Or, is it that you spend countless hours on video replays making specific and detailed notes on the NYRA races and that's also why you know these guys aren't playing games?

I don't really agree with jocks getting fired for pulling stunts and here's why. There's a pecking order with riders, someone is the best, someone is the 2nd best and so on and so forth. If you are a Pletcher or Brown and you think a top jock stiffed you and you get rid of that jock, what happens then? You get the 2nd best jock and then do the same thing when HE stiffs? Trainers can't be firing the best guys who mostly try but stiff here and there, or else you'll eventually run out of jocks you haven't fired.

Also, this assumes that the trainer knows the jock stiffed....what if the trainer THINKS the jock stiffed and then the jock comes back with a real good and sincere excuse? Than what?

[Inner Dirt]

As far as stiffing horses is concerned what about the owner? He or she would have to agree to the stiff job or the trainer gets fired and ends up with a sullied reputation.

[Maximillion]

my 2 favorites are probably Delta and Oaklawn-but if I feel if have a good understanding of the horses in the race, and the horse im interested in doesent figure to be one of the top two betting choices-im likely in,regardless of track.

Two of my worst tracks have been TUP and CT, yet been having great luck at both recently,so ive become more flexible.There is only one dirt track currently crossed of my list.

[ReplayRandall]

There is only one dirt track currently crossed of my list.

If you're supporting the boycott, it's Churchill Downs......

[duncan04]

If you're supporting the boycott, it's Churchill Downs......

Is that still going on? :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Is that still going on? :rolleyes:

Hopefully.

[PaceAdvantage]

I've scrubbed this thread of some of the more speculative and insidious "without proof" comments.

Please remember this is a public forum but it's privately owned...and no, you can't say whatever you feel like saying, or try and pass off whatever beliefs you may have as fact without a little something to back up your claims other than the word of "the 1 winning (and nameless) player I know"

[cutchemist42]

my favorite tracks these days are ASD, Hastings, Northland's. you can't bet any type of money there, but i do well with my small wagers in that place.

Any reason for the 3 western Canadian tracks? To me, all 3 have unique elements so Im just curious.

[lamboguy]

they are all bull rings, the purses aren't that great and the horses don't seem to be loaded up with chemical's. those places are all about handicapping the horse and the races they came out of. i will play any track on any day if i find something that interest's me. i happen to like to watch the races there and take notes on them. i used to do it with the Mountain, but the changing of odds after the break up and down was driving me more crazy than i already am, so i just focus in on Northwest Canada.

[EMD4ME]

I've scrubbed this thread of some of the more speculative and insidious "without proof" comments.

Please remember this is a public forum but it's privately owned...and no, you can't say whatever you feel like saying, or try and pass off whatever beliefs you may have as fact without a little something to back up your claims other than the word of "the 1 winning (and nameless) player I know"

Not a problem. After working another 14 hours today, my mind is shot and ready for bed. However, as soon as I remember or cite a new example, I will be on here.

I see not 1 but 2 of my responses were removed from this thread. Not a problem as well, whatever. Just want the 2 people who replied to me to know that I replied but my words were removed.

I stand by what I said, 10000%. It's repulsive out there.

Finally, just like in the Subtly Terrible Rides thread (which was combined with the Subtly Great rides thread), my credibility is 100% accurate so far. I cited specific examples AND NOT ONE person replied directly to my specific examples (which had links provided for the replays in question). In due time, when I have the energy and more importantly time, I will post about these 3 pigs.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well then, you must choose your words more carefully, or the posts will be removed once again...

[cutchemist42]

Win and DD/P3 bettor. i basically just try to find races where I dislike 1/2 faves for DD and 2/3 for P3s.

I'm big into following only 1 track at a time with lots of replays/trip notes/bias notes, and Im big into the pace picture and setup of a race.

Just wanted to add to this, that I wil stray from the 1 track following for big stake races, to watch the top tier of the sport.

[EMD4ME]

Well then, you must choose your words more carefully, or the posts will be removed once again...

Understood. Sorry if I violated any terms of PA.

[ezpace]

This post will get me banned from PA and my home tracks and I don't give a XXXX.

You want logic, form and truly normal results? Play Emerald Downs. Period.

To a normal eye (handicapping off form and numbers) you might do ok or say it's an average track. Do your homework (biases, trip notes, trainer analysis, trends etc.), you can find 3/5 shots that are 7/1. Plus you don't have Irad, Jose and Manuel "deciding" who will be "the one" in this race.

God, I miss Ramon, he would break up the disgusting 3's monopoly by dominating the 3 young one's games with his BRAIN, TALENT, PROACTIVE PREPAREDNESS, HEART and inability to be CORRUPT LIKE THOSE 15 minutes of fame scumbags.

Detest playing any races where any 2 of those 3 are involved. Irad, Jose and Manuel are cancers to NY racing. Not just cancer but pancreatic cancer.

AMEN