Deflategate

[cj's dad]

Kind of surprised that this hasn't been brought up.
Questions:

1- What should the punishment be ?

2 - What will the punishment be?

3 - How many more ways are the Pats cheating ?

Answers:

1 - I think both Brady and Belichek should be suspended for the SB and owner Robert Kraft banned for 1 year

2 - The Pats will be fined heavily and the coach will get 4 games starting next season.

3 - That I know of there was the snowplow incident, spygate, deflategate that they were caught at, who knows what other offenses they have commited ?

[DJofSD]

Tempest in a teapot.

[Marshall Bennett]

Answers:

1 - I think both Brady and Belichek should be suspended for the SB and owner Robert Kraft banned for 1 year

2 - The Pats will be fined heavily and the coach will get 4 games starting next season.

3 - That I know of there was the snowplow incident, spygate, deflategate that they were caught at, who knows what other offenses they have commited ?

At this point I have to disagree with all your answers. You need more evidence to enforce such penalties, such as knowing for a certainty that Belichek and Brady were aware the balls were deflated.
I don't believe such a plan to deflate the balls was a part of their strategy in winning the game. I don't believe they're that stupid.
I'd be shocked if any more than perhaps a fined came out of this.

[cj's dad]

Brady has been gripping footballs for many years. There is absolutely no way hs did not know those balls were under inflated.

[Tom]

Did I hear that one ball found not to be deflated was one of the ones used by the kicker?

[Stillriledup]

Those guys are teflon, nothing will happen, theyll brush it under the rug like they did w spygate.

[JustRalph]

Brady should be the one suspended.

But he will skate....... he is the NFL poster boy

[_______]

17-7 with under inflated balls. 28-0 afterwards.

11/12 balls under inflated after they were checked tells me there was intent to cheat and that warrents a penalty. The score after halftime when this was discovered tells me it should occur after the Super Bowl.

[burnsy]

17-7 with under inflated balls. 28-0 afterwards.

11/12 balls under inflated after they were checked tells me there was intent to cheat and that warrents a penalty. The score after halftime when this was discovered tells me it should occur after the Super Bowl.

I totally agree. But someone saw the weather, the first game (Seattle vs. Green Bay), the weather there, and knew what time it was. The question is, who did what or knew what? Or does Brady always want the ball like that? A football player can tell the second they hold the ball, that's how they got popped. When its softer, its easier to grip, catch and carry. That helps your passer, receiver and runner. If its really cold or wet, its an advantage (cheating). This won't be swept under the rug the media is making it bigger than Normandy for crying out loud. The penalties will come after the SB. If NE wins there will be more whining after the fact. The biggest penalty will be if they get beat........it won't be raining in Arizona, most likely it will be a fast track. Seattle, like horse racing, is a fast track team. I don't think they liked the going last week, just like a horse that doesn't like it wet. I'm thinking they will be their usual, fast, sharp hitting selves. If they lower the boom, like they usually do against a weaker, slower opponent. This will go away somewhat, but there will be penalties regardless.

[Tom]

What's next for the NFL?
Domestic violence with soft balls?

[Stillriledup]

They should let the Colts play the Ravens on what would have been super bowl sunday and the winner goes on to play the Hawks in the real SB a week later. The NFL would gain SO much credibility if they acted like the Olympics and "stripped" the medals overnight for cheating.

Anything less than stripping these guys from the win and banning them from the game essentially says cheating is ok because the results will always stand. Too much money involved for this team to ever feel the wrath of any financial punishment.

I think i would be ok with them playing in the SB if Brady and Belichick were suspended for the game and then Brady was also given a 1 year suspension for all of next year and Belichick gets a 2 or 3 year suspension.

Anything less just reeks of the WWF where they script the matches and have "good guys" vs "Bad guys".

[_______]

They should let the Colts play the Ravens on what would have been super bowl sunday and the winner goes on to play the Hawks in the real SB a week later. The NFL would gain SO much credibility if they acted like the Olympics and "stripped" the medals overnight for cheating.

Anything less than stripping these guys from the win and banning them from the game essentially says cheating is ok because the results will always stand. Too much money involved for this team to ever feel the wrath of any financial punishment.

I think i would be ok with them playing in the SB if Brady and Belichick were suspended for the game and then Brady was also given a 1 year suspension for all of next year and Belichick gets a 2 or 3 year suspension.

Anything less just reeks of the WWF where they script the matches and have "good guys" vs "Bad guys".

45-7.

[ronsmac]

I think they can put the entire story to rest by beating Seattle.

[DJofSD]

The NFL can't buy the kind of publicity this story is giving them.

Ratings for the SB will probably be the highest they've ever had.

Cha-ching!!!

[Stillriledup]

45-7.

Ben Johnson also won "45-7" but they took his medals away. Lance Armstrong also won "45-7" and they stripped him of his trophies. Its ok to cheat but make sure you win by enough, is that the message?

[Clocker]

I think they can put the entire story to rest by beating Seattle.

Because if that happens, no one will put every microsecond of the game films under a microscope looking for cheating. :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

The NFL can't buy the kind of publicity this story is giving them.

Ratings for the SB will probably be the highest they've ever had.

Cha-ching!!!

Yes, its because they're creating a "bad guy" in this SB, people are now going to tune in to see if the cheaters lose. Win win for the NFL, just like pro wrestling, create a "villian" and that polarizes people enough to want to tune in.

[Stillriledup]

45-7.

*

[Dark Horse]

Pitchers who use pine tar get suspensions. If that is any indication, Brady should be suspended for the Superbowl, because he's undoubtedly the motivating force behind these balls. Will it happen? No. How do I know? Because Vegas never took the lines off the board, and pretty boy Tom's press conference is just around the corner.

[_______]

Yes, its because they're creating a "bad guy" in this SB, people are now going to tune in to see if the cheaters lose. Win win for the NFL, just like pro wrestling, create a "villian" and that polarizes people enough to want to tune in.

Because no one would watch otherwise. They needed this for the ratings. Got it.

[Stillriledup]

Because no one would watch otherwise. They needed this for the ratings. Got it.

Ratings will be better, you can never have enough eyes watching as far as they are concerned.

[_______]

Pitchers who use pine tar get suspensions. If that is any indication, Brady should be suspended for the Superbowl, because he's undoubtedly the motivating force behind these balls. Will it happen? No. How do I know? Because Vegas never took the lines off the board, and pretty boy Tom's press conference is just around the corner.

I wouldn't want to be a no name equipment manager for the the Patriots right now.

Someone is going to take the bullet.

[Clocker]

Because no one would watch otherwise. They needed this for the ratings. Got it.

I just watch it for the Bud Light ads and the half-time show. :p

[Stillriledup]

I wouldn't want to be a no name equipment manager for the the Patriots right now.

Someone is going to take the bullet.

I thought that too. But you know what? The bottom line is that Brady felt the balls and knew they were underinflated and said nothing. So he cheated and hoped nobody would notice.

[_______]

Ratings will be better, you can never have enough eyes watching as far as they are concerned.

Everyone who was ever going to be watching already had it on their calendar. If someone had other plans, it didn't involve television.

Your theory is ridiculous.

[Stillriledup]

Everyone who was ever going to be watching already had it on their calendar. If someone had other plans, it didn't involve television.

Your theory is ridiculous.

There's tens of millions of people in the country that weren't planning on watching. You don't think ONE person who heard this story changed his mind and now is going to watch? :D

Not one?

[_______]

There's tens of millions of people in the country that weren't planning on watching. You don't think ONE person who heard this story changed his mind and now is going to watch? :D

Not one?

You're right. There was one. And it was worth this to get them to watch.

[Stillriledup]

You're right. There was one. And it was worth this to get them to watch.

The NFL is so anal about their viewers and their brand and all the little details that yeah, every extra set of eyes they get is a party bigger than the one thrown by Prince in 1999.

[lamboguy]

Tom Brady coming on ESPN any moment, someone please report, i am watching replay's for the harness tonight at Flammy

[Stillriledup]

Tom Brady coming on ESPN any moment, someone please report, i am watching replay's for the harness tonight at Flammy

LOL i have it on, i'm multitasking, i'm watching tv AND watching replays. :D

[Stillriledup]

Tom Brady coming on ESPN any moment, someone please report, i am watching replay's for the harness tonight at Flammy

He's feigning ignorance.

A reporter asked him "is tom brady a cheater" and Tom said "i don't believe so" while laughing.

[davew]

Everyone's trying to figure out what happened....

Questions:
1- What should the punishment be ?
2 - What will the punishment be?
3 - How many more ways are the Pats cheating ?


1- Forfeiture of last 3 years wins and no draft picks next year
2- Nothing
3- They are just going for any edge they can get - the people that call them cheating are just upset they never thought of that themselves.

[lamboguy]

He's feigning ignorance.

A reporter asked him "is tom brady a cheater" and Tom said "i don't believe so" while laughing.
thanks for the update, no line change. i wonder if people are going to come in on the Seahawks thinking that they will have plenty of eyes glued to the Pats for this event and won't be able to get away with anything. i don't know if it will help the Seahawk defensive line, but who really knows?

[DJofSD]

I think they should weight the balls as a part of the coin toss ceremony.

[Stillriledup]

thanks for the update, no line change. i wonder if people are going to come in on the Seahawks thinking that they will have plenty of eyes glued to the Pats for this event and won't be able to get away with anything. i don't know if it will help the Seahawk defensive line, but who really knows?

Reaction coming in from Jerome Bettis and Mark Brunell on ESPN that's very negative towards what Brady just said...both commentators saying Brady lied and they didn't believe him at all.

Brian Dawkins also saying what Brady said is BS.

[_______]

Tom Brady coming on ESPN any moment, someone please report, i am watching replay's for the harness tonight at Flammy

He stonewalled. I don't think he helped the Patriots case.

[Teach]

Watched the Belichick and Brady news conferences. It seems that Belichick threw Brady "under the bus". Belichick is "the boss"; he's in charge. I would think that if there were any improprieties with the inflation of the footballs he would have certainly known. Personally, I can't imagine "Tom Terrific" taking it upon himself to deflate the footballs. I'm sure if the footballs were deflated Brady would have known by the way they felt in his hand while handing off and passing.

On a further note, it was reported that Ted Williams sent back a whole bunch of bats to Hillerich & Bradsby because when they were milled they were off by the slightest amount - and, in fact, they were. And "The Splendid Splinter" could sense it. You mean to tell me that Brady wouldn't have sensed that the footballs were underinflated. Hard to believe a professional athlete of his caliber and experience wouldn't have picked up on it.

Finally, I don't bet sports. Personally, I think it's the "crack cocaine" of gambling. But, to each their own. Yet, If I did bet on the Superbowl I would jump on Seattle before the line moves because surely it will. Belichick and Brady can say what they want. This is a huge... I repeat a huge distraction. I believe this is "a killer". In a game where focus is everything, I believe this will become the mother of all distractions. This is coming from a guy who grew up and went to school in Boston and rooted for the Patriots from the time they were in the old AFL (Butch Songin) and when they played at Fenway Park and Harvard Stadium.

[Stillriledup]

Watched the Belichick and Brady news conferences. It seems that Belichick threw Brady "under the bus". Belichick is "the boss"; he's in charge. I would think that if there were any improprieties with the inflation of the footballs he would have certainly known. Personally, I can't imagine "Tom Terrific" taking it upon himself to deflate the footballs. I'm sure if the footballs were deflated Brady would have known by the way they felt in his hand while handing off and passing.

On a further note, it was reported that Ted Williams sent back a whole bunch of bats to Hillerich & Bradsby because when they were milled they were off by the slightest amount - and, in fact, they were. And "The Splendid Splinter" could sense it. You mean to tell me that Brady wouldn't have sensed that the footballs were underinflated. Hard to believe a professional athlete of his caliber and experience wouldn't have picked up on it.

Finally, I don't bet sports. Personally, I think it's the "crack cocaine" of gambling. But, to each their own. Yet, If I did bet on the Superbowl I would jump on Seattle before the line moves because surely it will. Belichick and Brady can say what they want. This is a huge... I repeat a huge distraction. I believe this is "a killer". In a game where focus is everything, I believe this will become the mother of all distractions. This is coming from a guy who grew up and went to school in Boston and rooted for the Patriots from the time they were in the old AFL (Butch Songin) and when they played at Fenway Park and Harvard Stadium.

Smart post.

Can they overcome this distraction. That's the 64 dollar question.

[lamboguy]

for the very least, the league should suspend Brady for this game. i am a lifelong Raider fan and can't stand the Pats.

when i go to the Superbowl this year, i am sitting in their seats.

that being said, even if they did suspend Brady, i don't know if it will be enough. they are going to have their hands full with that Patriot offensive line no matter who the quarterback is or isn't.

[MutuelClerk]

I'm torn between my hatred of ESPN and my hatred of the Patriots. If you look at the Pats criminal file deflategate is a misdemeanor. With no game this weekend the attention whore in ESPN is coming out. They need to talk football, stir up something for the Super Bowl. How many talking heads do they have now anyways? It looked like the last supper when they were talking about this. Deflategate is to ESPN what flight 370 was to CNN. Ratings. I'll just wait for the game and hope Seattle kicks their asses.

[Robert Goren]

Much ado about nothing. But I think league will fine them. As of now they don't know who did it for sure. I am pretty sure Belichick did not know, but Brady did. If the NFL can prove somebody in the Pats organization knew, "prove" being the operative word, then you might see them lose a 3rd or 4th round pick.

[ronsmac]

Because if that happens, no one will put every microsecond of the game films under a microscope looking for cheating. :rolleyes:That would be the perfect scenario for New England. Win, then have every second of the Super Bowl scrutinized. Then they'll be able to say they won on the up and up. It should be a great game.

[newtothegame]

To Marshall and Goren,
Apparently you two don't keep up with the NFL. The NFL can and do whatever it likes.
In the Saints penalties, Goodell said in his statements that "Ignorance is not an excuse".....in reference to Payton knowing what was going on.
So, it doesn't matter if Belicheat knew or not.
Then this is like the third time in recent years the Pats have been caught cheating....
So yeah.....I feel they deserve some very stiff penalties.
But, it probably wont happen.

[Stillriledup]

I'm not surprised that LoDuca on tvg doesn't get it. To him, its ok to cheat as long as you win by enough points where the cheating "didnt matter"

[Marshall Bennett]

To Marshall and Goren,
Apparently you two don't keep up with the NFL. The NFL can and do whatever it likes.
Where did I say they can't?
Could well be that the equipment staff had been under-inflating balls since Brady's been a quarterback there. Maybe he knew they were doing it, maybe he didn't. Without knowing for certain, it's his word against anyone that doubts him.
Without any concrete evidence other than doubt, the NFL should throw him to the lions?

[horses4courses]

Downtown Josh Brown ‏@ReformedBroker 11h11 hours ago
Salvador Belichick

(by Gary Varvel, brilliant)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B79WlTACIAAw5ql.jpg

[lamboguy]

Ray Rice was beating up his poor wife and the league closes their eyes and no one cares..

[Stillriledup]

Where did I say they can't?
Could well be that the equipment staff had been under-inflating balls since Brady's been a quarterback there. Maybe he knew they were doing it, maybe he didn't. Without knowing for certain, it's his word against anyone that doubts him.
Without any concrete evidence other than doubt, the NFL should throw him to the lions?

O percent chance someone who worked there was tampering with those balls unless Brady or Belichick told him to do it.

[Teach]

Has there been any line movement since this "hit the fan"? I'm saying SB game-time odds: Seahawks -8.

[Stillriledup]

Has there been any line movement since this "hit the fan"? I'm saying SB game-time odds: Seahawks -8.

Yes, people are betting the Pats and the game like this is NOT the WWF (or whatever its called these days)

I don't know if the Hawks are a good bet, but geez, you really gotta be careful betting on these Pats...if they just don't implode on their own, you have the issue that the league might "punish" them in the game......NFL would "prefer" to not have to answer questions that their Champion won the title because of cheating. If Seattle wins, none of those questions get asked.

Wilson is a new young star in the league, NFL won't be sad at all if he wins again.

[horses4courses]

Has there been any line movement since this "hit the fan"? I'm saying SB game-time odds: Seahawks -8.

The -1 line on the Pats is turning into PK and Seahawks -1.
Not sure how far the line reversal will go - probably not very far.

You won't see Seahawks -8 until they host the Rams next season ;)

[Stillriledup]

The -1 line on the Pats is turning into PK and Seahawks -1.
Not sure how far the line reversal will go - probably not very far.

You won't see Seahawks -8 until they host the Rams next season ;)

I think a great idea is to seriously bet everything you have on Seattle just in case somehow Brady and or Belichick gets suspended for the game. If Brady doesnt play and you're locked in at pickem for a fortune, you could bet your house on Pats plus a million pts and try and middle the game. The spread will also move drastically if Belichick gets suspended, but not as much if Brady gets suspended.

I know its a big longshot either guy misses this game, but if they somehow dont, the worst case scenario is you have a big bet on Seattle at current odds, not that big of a deal.

[mountainman]

Much ado about nothing. A trivial crime inflated to superbowl proportions.

[Stillriledup]

Much ado about nothing. A trivial crime inflated to superbowl proportions.

Many high profile ex NFLers disagree with this.

[mountainman]

Many high profile ex NFLers disagree with this.

Yes, indeed. And I'm sure they don't begrudge Brady his fame, success, massive income or super-model spouse one bit. At all.

Seattle wins, by the way.

[newtothegame]

They threw Payton to the lions...
Precedent has been set on his responsibility as head coach.
You can't hold one coach to a standard that you are not willing to hold all coaches too.
There was nothing but speculation against Payton and he got a year off!

[Clocker]

Many high profile ex NFLers disagree with this.

None of whom have ever violated a single league rule in their entire career. :D

[newtothegame]

At this point I have to disagree with all your answers. You need more evidence to enforce such penalties, such as knowing for a certainty that Belichek and Brady were aware the balls were deflated.
I don't believe such a plan to deflate the balls was a part of their strategy in winning the game. I don't believe they're that stupid.
I'd be shocked if any more than perhaps a fined came out of this.

Here is your exact posting and what I am saying is that they do NOT need to know for sure that Brady or belicheat knew. The standard for penalty was set when goodell proclaimed that ignorance was no excuse.
Add in the fact that the pats have been caught several times cheating and well... You get the idea!

[Robert Goren]

To Marshall and Goren,
Apparently you two don't keep up with the NFL. The NFL can and do whatever it likes.
In the Saints penalties, Goodell said in his statements that "Ignorance is not an excuse".....in reference to Payton knowing what was going on.
So, it doesn't matter if Belicheat knew or not.
Then this is like the third time in recent years the Pats have been caught cheating....
So yeah.....I feel they deserve some very stiff penalties.
But, it probably wont happen.What happen in NO was very much different than this.

[newtothegame]

Never said it wasn't.
But repeat offenders makes it ok????

[Stillriledup]

Yes, indeed. And I'm sure they don't begrudge Brady his fame, success, massive income or super-model spouse one bit. At all.

Seattle wins, by the way.

The tv airwaves are filled with NFL apologists, if a commentator thought it was "no big deal" they would have said so since its in an ex NFL players best interest if people think the game is on the up and up.

[Robert Fischer]

something to talk about

[Marshall Bennett]

Yes, people are betting the Pats and the game like this is NOT the WWF (or whatever its called these days)

I don't know if the Hawks are a good bet, but geez, you really gotta be careful betting on these Pats...if they just don't implode on their own, you have the issue that the league might "punish" them in the game......
To the contrary, they're likely laughing in their sleep and will be more determined than ever to kick Seattle's ass. Perhaps the distraction is hurting the Seahawks, if it really matters to any of them.

[Marshall Bennett]

Many high profile ex NFLers disagree with this.
They're jealous of Brady and the attention he's getting. :)

[Stillriledup]

They're jealous of Brady and the attention he's getting. :)

They're not jealous of brady, their ego is too big for that. As far as attention goes, being called a cheater is not exactly the type of attention people want.

[mountainman]

They're not jealous of brady, their ego is too big for that.

A large ego precludes envy?? Are you serious, Sigmund? Quite to the contrary, lots of ex-ballers now doing commentary strike me as contemptuous of Brady. Here's a can of worms that should stimulate brisk response: How many black commentators hastened to bury him earlier this season and remain oddly muffled about giving the man his due???

And, please, don't fly in with examples of white commentators that have knocked Brady, or black ones that have supported him. All I'm saying is that a racial component-that cuts BOTH ways- does exist in nfl commentary. And the golden boy is a prime target of racially motivated enmity. After all, they don't COME more caucasian than Tom Brady.

And, by the way, I detest Tom Brady for his sneering arrogance and fake public persona. And I think he had the balls doctored. I just find it a crime of miniscule proportion.

NOW the fun should begin......

[sammy the sage]

A large ego precludes envy?? Are you serious, Sigmund? Quite to the contrary, lots of ex-ballers now doing commentary strike me as contemptuous of Brady. Here's a can of worms that should stimulate brisk response: How many black commentators hastened to bury him earlier this season and remain oddly muffled about giving the man his due???

And, please, don't fly in with examples of white commentators that have knocked Brady, or black ones that have supported him. All I'm saying is that a racial component-that cuts BOTH ways- does exist in nfl commentary. And the golden boy is a prime target of racially motivated enmity. After all, they don't COME more caucasian than Tom Brady.

And, by the way, I detest Tom Brady for his sneering arrogance and fake public persona. And I think he had the balls doctored. I just find it a crime of miniscule proportion.

NOW the fun should begin......

this is SO true!

[lamboguy]

this game is no different than the world wrestling federation, horse racing or politics. human beings will take any advantage they can find. i did't say its right by any means, but face it, humans are very light on the conscience department.

[newtothegame]

A large ego precludes envy?? Are you serious, Sigmund? Quite to the contrary, lots of ex-ballers now doing commentary strike me as contemptuous of Brady. Here's a can of worms that should stimulate brisk response: How many black commentators hastened to bury him earlier this season and remain oddly muffled about giving the man his due???

And, please, don't fly in with examples of white commentators that have knocked Brady, or black ones that have supported him. All I'm saying is that a racial component-that cuts BOTH ways- does exist in nfl commentary. And the golden boy is a prime target of racially motivated enmity. After all, they don't COME more caucasian than Tom Brady.

And, by the way, I detest Tom Brady for his sneering arrogance and fake public persona. And I think he had the balls doctored. I just find it a crime of miniscule proportion.

NOW the fun should begin......

So, serious question here....
Since you think cheating is miniscule.....
How about a man grabbing himself after he scores? Personally, I think it was disgusting and very un sportsman like but, your opinion? The NFL fined M. Lynch 20 Large for it. If the NFL thinks grabbing ones self is worth 20 large, then breaking rules (cheating).....what does that warrant???

[mountainman]

So, serious question here....
Since you think cheating is miniscule.....
How about a man grabbing himself after he scores? Personally, I think it was disgusting and very un sportsman like but, your opinion? The NFL fined M. Lynch 20 Large for it. If the NFL thinks grabbing ones self is worth 20 large, then breaking rules (cheating).....what does that warrant???

First off, I don't equate one incident with the other. Punishable offenses vary greatly. And I certainly don't consider ALL cheating to be miniscule in nature. So please, don't speak for me, sir. I can do that just fine on my own.

But you do pose an interesting question. And in response I would say that the nfl's prime concern in BOTH cases is its public image. And if Brady is proven culpable, he can expect a hefty fine.

[Teach]

So, we're gonna get Freudian. "The Father of Psychoanalysis" said when we were born that all of us are "id-like" creatures. If the "id" could speak it would say: "I want what I want when I want it!" Selfish, grasping, impulsive. Well, many of us, a year or two after birth, begin to develop "ego". We begin to understand that there are other people around us that have needs as well, e.g., parents, siblings, etc. We also begin to realize that we should act rationally. Sensibly. That our actions have consequences. And also, later, the "superego" which is the strict, harsh part of our personality. Demanding. It is the overbearing "parent" within us. The Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt not..."

What does this all have to do with "deflate-gate"? Just about everything. People and professional sports teams and players can set good examples, but they can also set bad examples. It calls into attention their integrity. Although not perfect, players and professional sports teams should act as role models. That's an image that Robert Kraft and his late wife, Myra, tried to present here in New England....and I believe, for the most part, they did that successfully over the years. However, the footballs didn't just deflate themselves. The human element had to be a part of that process. Someone gave the order.

Well, with the SB a little over a week away, I still believe that this will continue to be a huge distraction. The Patriots wil soon be leaving for Phoenix, but they won't escape the media scrutiny. In fact, it'll probably only intensify. Try as they might, the team cannot escape this. Will it effect their performance on the field? I believe so!

[cj]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/most-troubling-out-of-tom-brady-s-deflate-gate-comments--league-hasn-t-talked-to-qb-234447768.html

[mountainman]

So, we're gonna get Freudian. "The Father of Psychoanalysis" said when we were born that all of us are "id-like" creatures. If the "id" could speak it would say: "I want what I want when I want it!" Selfish, grasping, impulsive. Well, many of us, a year or two after birth, begin to develop "ego". We begin to understand that there are other people around us that have needs as well, e.g., parents, siblings, etc. We also begin to realize that we should act rationally. Sensibly. That our actions have consequences. And also, later, the "superego" which is the strict, harsh part of our personality. Demanding. It is the overbearing "parent" within us. The Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt not..."

What does this all have to do with "deflate-gate"? Just about everything. People and professional sports teams and players can set good examples, but they can also set bad examples. It calls into attention their integrity. Although not perfect, players and professional sports teams should act as role models. That's an image that Robert Kraft and his late wife, Myra, tried to present here in New England....and I believe, for the most part, they did that successfully over the years. However, the footballs didn't just deflate themselves. The human element had to be a part of that process. Someone gave the order.

Well, with the SB a little over a week away, I still believe that this will continue to be a huge distraction. The Patriots wil soon be leaving for Phoenix, but they won't escape the media scrutiny. In fact, it'll probably only intensify. Try as they might, the team cannot escape this. Will it effect their performance on the field? I believe so!

Good stuff. And I agree this fiasco will effect the pat's performance. It will serve as a powerful motivator.

[lamboguy]

there is plenty of talk that Al Sharpton bet on New Englang against the Colts because the owner Kraft invited secretary of state Kerry to sit with him during the game. obviously Kerry received secret service clearance so that he go go where the balls were kept so that they could be deflated to insure Sharpton a winning bet that day.

[Teach]

Hey, at 72-years-old, I've had deflated balls for years. Sometimes my wife has trouble finding them. Maybe Bill Belichick and/or Tom Brady can help me with my problem. If they can deflate them, they certainly must be able to inflate them.

[DJofSD]

Has there been any hard facts published? This entire incident started more or less as a rumor by ESPN and I do not believe it has been anything but a rumor.

[Marshall Bennett]

Nick Anderson cartoon this morning shows Brady going out to his car and finding his tires all flat. :)

[Stillriledup]

A large ego precludes envy?? Are you serious, Sigmund? Quite to the contrary, lots of ex-ballers now doing commentary strike me as contemptuous of Brady. Here's a can of worms that should stimulate brisk response: How many black commentators hastened to bury him earlier this season and remain oddly muffled about giving the man his due???

And, please, don't fly in with examples of white commentators that have knocked Brady, or black ones that have supported him. All I'm saying is that a racial component-that cuts BOTH ways- does exist in nfl commentary. And the golden boy is a prime target of racially motivated enmity. After all, they don't COME more caucasian than Tom Brady.

And, by the way, I detest Tom Brady for his sneering arrogance and fake public persona. And I think he had the balls doctored. I just find it a crime of miniscule proportion.

NOW the fun should begin......

What does this have to do with race? I don't remember talking about that.

[JustRalph]

http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/files/2015/01/and012315web-600x451.jpg

[tucker6]

Has there been any hard facts published? This entire incident started more or less as a rumor by ESPN and I do not believe it has been anything but a rumor.
Not a rumor any more ...


"While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were underinflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated," the NFL's statement read.

"The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence."

The investigation centers on Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the balls be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch.

"Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday's game," the statement read.

"The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence.

"Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources, and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

The NFL is putting a lot of manpower into this issue, including an independent investigation. Sounds like they want answers. If those answers point toward Belichick in a systemic deflating of balls, look out. He'll make Sean Payton's and the Saints penalties look mild. Multiple draft pick loss, salary cap hit, and Belichick gone for a year. Not to mention Bill's HOF legacy and the Patriots legacy the last 15 years. It would absolutely tarnish all those trophies, and any who thinks differently isn't seeing reality. This issue, while not necessarily important to the AFC title game, is extremely important to the integrity of the game. The essence of football is the football. You mess with that, you have nothing left.

[mountainman]

What does this have to do with race? I don't remember talking about that.

You brought in ex-ballers. So I brought in race, which I think is germane to some of their attitudes toward Brady.

[tucker6]

I saw on another website that the Patriots have an amazing fumbling record.

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/

Looking at the graph, and since 2010, the Patriots fumble every 187 run plays. The next closest is the Texans at 140 plays per fumble, and coached by a Belichick disciple. As you can see, most teams fumble every 80-110 runs. Either amazingly good luck by the Pats, or they have habitually used a DEFLATED ball.

[Ocala Mike]

http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/files/2015/01/and012315web-600x451.jpg

Not much of a cartoonist, and this one might be a little off-color, but I would do a cartoon of Brady and his supermodel wife in bed together with her looking under the sheets with a disappointed look on her face saying something like, "Did they have to let the air out of EVERYTHING?"

[Clocker]

Contrary to reports in the media, Indianapolis Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said he noticed nothing wrong with the football he intercepted against New England in last week's AFC championship game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/colts-jackson-says-noticed-nothing-wrong-football-215645753--nfl.html

In another story I read earlier, one of the players said that there was some kind of screw up and late in the first half the Patriots were on offense using Colt balls.

So it is still not clear that there are any known facts about what happened, except that the NFL wants it all to go away, at least until after the season.

[tucker6]

So it is still not clear that there are any known facts about what happened, except that the NFL wants it all to go away, at least until after the season.
They won't wrap things up until after the season. To think that they would or could was a little naive, including on my part. However, the NFL from the statement released this afternoon is certainly putting high powered manpower toward settling the issue. Whether that's an expensive smokescreen is another matter, but it doesn't sound so.

[Stillriledup]

You brought in ex-ballers. So I brought in race, which I think is germane to some of their attitudes toward Brady.

Why would you think that?

[Stillriledup]

Not much of a cartoonist, and this one might be a little off-color, but I would do a cartoon of Brady and his supermodel wife in bed together with her looking under the sheets with a disappointed look on her face saying something like, "Did they have to let the air out of EVERYTHING?"

I would have went one step further....instead of just having the flat tires, i would have had asterisks sticking out of the tires for the 3 Super Bowls he "won". Only people in New England honor those wins, most of the country knows they were ill gotten, at least half of us were born at night, just not last night. ;)

[Clocker]

Why would you think that?

Tom Brady, The Patriots and White Privilege


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtDVNhyqS28

[Stillriledup]

Tom Brady, The Patriots and White Privilege


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtDVNhyqS28

I agree that this happens in the NFL, but talking about white privilege that's non NFL specific is a different matter altogether.

[tucker6]

I saw on another website that the Patriots have an amazing fumbling record.

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/

Looking at the graph, and since 2010, the Patriots fumble every 187 run plays. The next closest is the Texans at 140 plays per fumble, and coached by a Belichick disciple. As you can see, most teams fumble every 80-110 runs. Either amazingly good luck by the Pats, or they have habitually used a DEFLATED ball.
Further to this post, the Patriots experienced a drastic decline in fumbles beginning in 2007 which was the first year that teams were allowed to supply all their own game balls at both home and on the road. In fact, in the five year period from 2010 to 2014 their fumble ratio is so much better than any other team over the past 25 years that it is a highly improbable statistical anomaly, especially for a cold weather, non-dome team.

This data suggests they've been deflating their footballs for years and have gained a decided competitive advantage because of it. If that turns out to be the case then the NFL needs to bring a sledgehammer down on the whole organization.

[Clocker]

beginning in 2007 which was the first year that teams were allowed to supply all their own game balls at both home and on the road

This rule is really stupid and has to inevitably lead to real or imagined problems.

The league should provide the balls and officials should prepare them in a uniform manner. One set of balls for everyone, including kickers.

As for the past, they can't even figure out what happened last week, let alone find cheating dating back to 2007.

[Stillriledup]

Further to this post, the Patriots experienced a drastic decline in fumbles beginning in 2007 which was the first year that teams were allowed to supply all their own game balls at both home and on the road. In fact, in the five year period from 2010 to 2014 their fumble ratio is so much better than any other team over the past 25 years that it is a highly improbable statistical anomaly, especially for a cold weather, non-dome team.

This data suggests they've been deflating their footballs for years and have gained a decided competitive advantage because of it. If that turns out to be the case then the NFL needs to bring a sledgehammer down on the whole organization.

Statistically, there's no other conclusion to come by. Its as forensic as it gets. The cold weather non dome team can't ever have a "lead" in any category to do with "holding onto something" that's oddly shaped....well, unless there's a "Catch".

[Clocker]

well, unless there's a "Catch".

Or a "tuck". :p

[Stillriledup]

Or a "tuck". :p

oShTJ90fC34

[Robert Fischer]

Statistically, there's no other conclusion to come by. Its as forensic as it gets. The cold weather non dome team can't ever have a "lead" in any category to do with "holding onto something" that's oddly shaped....well, unless there's a "Catch".

That's a big reach.
Aside from exploiting competitive advantages both legal and illegal, the Patriots also have some of the strictest coaching, and often use a 'running back by committee' approach.

It wouldn't surprise me if fumbles were a point of interest to see them lead in that category. Much of fumbling is protecting the ball... 2 hands.... 2 hands and getting low when in the lead rather than fighting for yards...

LeGarrette Blount is the latest example of a journeyman back whose level of discipline has noticeably increased under Belichick and the Patriot system.

I want to see the football before I make any rash judgements.
Show me a ball that was deflated to the maximum legal lower limit. Then also hand me a ball deflated to where the Patriots are accused of deflating the ball to. If I don't see and feel that, then how the hell am I going to do more than joke around?

The NFL wants the QBs to have as nice a football as they want. If they have small hands, they still want the QB to have a comfortable grip. If he just throws a softer ball better, the NFL wants him throwing that ball. The only thing we don't want is to get silly, and be using a flat football.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/blount-return-patriots.jpg

[Stillriledup]

That's a big reach.
Aside from exploiting competitive advantages both legal and illegal, the Patriots also have some of the strictest coaching, and often use a 'running back by committee' approach.

It wouldn't surprise me if fumbles were a point of interest to see them lead in that category. Much of fumbling is protecting the ball... 2 hands.... 2 hands and getting low when in the lead rather than fighting for yards...

LeGarrette Blount is the latest example of a journeyman back whose level of discipline has noticeably increased under Belichick and the Patriot system.

I want to see the football before I make any rash judgements.
Show me a ball that was deflated to the maximum legal lower limit. Then also hand me a ball deflated to where the Patriots are accused of deflating the ball to. If I don't see and feel that, then how the hell am I going to do more than joke around?

The NFL wants the QBs to have as nice a football as they want. If they have small hands, they still want the QB to have a comfortable grip. If he just throws a softer ball better, the NFL wants him throwing that ball. The only thing we don't want is to get silly, and be using a flat football.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/blount-return-patriots.jpg

You're giving them too much credit, athletes for the most part are stupid, and the stats don't lie.

Conclusion? Cheating. No way around it.

[Robert Fischer]

You're giving them too much credit, athletes for the most part are stupid, and the stats don't lie.

Conclusion? Cheating. No way around it.

Maybe I'm biased, because I usually do pretty well estimating factors.

Admittedly, I think the whole thing is silly and as long as they aren't playing with flat or near-flat footballs, I could care less. (my bias here)

[Stillriledup]

Maybe I'm biased, because I usually do pretty well estimating factors.

Admittedly, I think the whole thing is silly and as long as they aren't playing with flat or near-flat footballs, I could care less. (my bias here)

Our society is tolerant of cheating on one condition. That you don't win. If you win, and these guys do nothing BUT win, its not tolerated. If a 2-14 team got caught deflating balls, it wouldn't even be a story.

[lamboguy]

i wonder how many other quarterbacks play with deflated footballs? my guess is that all of them do

[Clocker]

I figured this one was coming. Harry Reid weighs in. Congressional investigation no doubt to follow.

http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/01/23/congress-dean-heller-harry-reid-deflate-gate-statements-are-embarrassing/

[Stillriledup]

i wonder how many other quarterbacks play with deflated footballs? my guess is that all of them do

There probably wouldn't be such a disparity in fumbles lost, esp from a team who plays half their games in cold outdoors. Those stats make no sense. Forensic analysis can shed more light on the "anomaly" of these stats. They're pretty damning. I'm sure you could have a computer genius crunch numbers and determine if this is statistically possible or not. I know that they say hitters who play for the Oakland As have a hard time winning batting titles because of the expansive foul ground, they hit too many "foul outs" to ever win a title......i wonder if the foul ground theory in Oakland is similar to a team with fumbles in cold outdoor weather.

[newtothegame]

First off, I don't equate one incident with the other. Punishable offenses vary greatly. And I certainly don't consider ALL cheating to be miniscule in nature. So please, don't speak for me, sir. I can do that just fine on my own.

But you do pose an interesting question. And in response I would say that the nfl's prime concern in BOTH cases is its public image. And if Brady is proven culpable, he can expect a hefty fine.

lmao...you are one funny cat! I never spoke for you! You specifically said that you find this incident of cheating "miniscule".
I merely asked if this is miniscule, how is the Lynch incident compared?

As to Brady being "proven" culpable, as I said in previous post here...the nfl has already set a standard with Payton. He DOESNT need to be "proven" culpable. In the Payton (Saints bounty scandal), Goodell said that in essence just because he didn't know about it, ignorance is not an excuse.

All I am saying is shouldn't the same standards be applied?

Do I really care if footballs are deflated? I really could care less. But, there is a rule for obvious reasons. I don't write them, nor am I included in those conversations lol.
For me, it's more the HISTORY of the PATS and their cheating ways. They have been nailed several times now with cheating. If the NFL is so worried about their "image", then they should punish the PATS accordingly (as previous standards of ignorance) apply!

[lamboguy]

the history of this deflate gate with the New England Patriots started about 20 years ago when at the last minute owner Bob Kraft pulled the plug on moving his franchise to Conneticut.

ESPN was instrumental

in getting the Patriots over to Conneticut. Kraft used the deal to hold Massachusetts hostage for a better one. there was never a chance he was ever going to move his franchise over there because he owned the land where the stadium sits today.

the network was embarrassed and that is when deflategate first started.

[mountainman]

So, serious question here....
Since you think cheating is miniscule.....


What an awkward attempt to twist my words. And here , once again, is the proof. My post referred to this one (deflating footballs) instance of cheating. Your wording clearly implies that I find all cheating to be miniscule in nature. The context within your own post, which proceeds to somehow equate a surly running back's obscene gesture with "cheating," further establishes my point.

[mountainman]

lmao...you are one funny cat!

Please, if you want to debate, let's keep it completely impersonal.

[mountainman]

As to Brady being "proven" culpable, as I said in previous post here...the nfl has already set a standard with Payton. He DOESNT need to be "proven" culpable. In the Payton (Saints bounty scandal), Goodell said that in essence just because he didn't know about it, ignorance is not an excuse.



Let me get this clear. You're equating soft footballs with team-sponsored head-hunting? And further proclaiming that a precedent establishing the HEAD COACH as responsible for misconduct by an ast coach somehow puts a QUARTERBACK in the nfl crosshairs now?? Are you serious??

[tucker6]

Seriously? You're NOW putting a q-back on par with a head coach???? And equating soft footballs with team-sponsored head-hunting??????????????????????????

And you think Brady will be punished even if it's never proven that he ordered the code red? It's inadvertent on your part, but the Saints reference DOES apply. Like Payton, Belichick will be held responsible-if the pats are found culpable.
Belichick will take a fall here, and his legacy tarnished. Whether this is proven or not, his entire tenure at NE is tarnished.

[mountainman]

Belichick will take a fall here, and his legacy tarnished. Whether this is proven or not, his entire tenure at NE is tarnished.

If Brady gets smacked, so does Belichick, and probably the team. And the team is more likely to be punished than is Brady.

[JustRalph]

i wonder how many other quarterbacks play with deflated footballs? my guess is that all of them do

Appears that way to me. I've heard multiple sources say they can adjust them after the refs turn them over.

Does it really make much difference? I don't think so.

[DJofSD]

Give NE a 20 yard penalty or half the distance to the goal on their first possession then move on.

[tucker6]

There probably wouldn't be such a disparity in fumbles lost, esp from a team who plays half their games in cold outdoors. Those stats make no sense. Forensic analysis can shed more light on the "anomaly" of these stats. They're pretty damning. I'm sure you could have a computer genius crunch numbers and determine if this is statistically possible or not. I know that they say hitters who play for the Oakland As have a hard time winning batting titles because of the expansive foul ground, they hit too many "foul outs" to ever win a title......i wonder if the foul ground theory in Oakland is similar to a team with fumbles in cold outdoor weather.
Here you go:

Sharp Football Analysis:
One can clearly see the Patriots, visually, are off the chart. There is no other team even close to being near to their rate of 187 offensive plays (passes+rushes+sacks) per fumble. The league average is 105 plays/fumble. Most teams are within 21 plays of that number.
The odds of such a statistical distribution were calculated at one in 16,233. That’s a comma, not a decimal. Sixteen thousand two hundred and thirty three to one.

[tucker6]

but wait, there's more ...

Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

[Clocker]

Give NE a 20 yard penalty or half the distance to the goal on their first possession then move on.

Even worse, make them stay on the field and listen to the half time show.

[Stillriledup]

but wait, there's more ...

Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

This is damning right there. Great info Tucker, thanks for posting it.

[newtothegame]

Let me get this clear. You're equating soft footballs with team-sponsored head-hunting? And further proclaiming that a precedent establishing the HEAD COACH as responsible for misconduct by an ast coach somehow puts a QUARTERBACK in the nfl crosshairs now?? Are you serious??
Obviously you are not reading my post right. I even went so far and said I could care less about the footballs.
The precedent though does matter. If a coach is held responsible, whether he knows or not, then belicheat should be held accountable whether he knows or not!

[proximity]

but wait, there's more ...

Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).

the football equivalent of the post super-trainer 30 point beyer drop? :D

great stuff tucker6!!

[Clocker]

Does it really make much difference? I don't think so.

The NFL says that the NE balls were found to be under-inflated late in the 1st half. They were properly inflated at the start of the 2nd half, and were still good at the end of the game. Using properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the scoring was NE 28, Colts 0.

I saw an article quoting an anonymous source supposedly familiar with the Patriots who said this whole thing is a gold mine for Belichick. He said that Bill is at his best when he can psych the team into a mindset that it is the whole world against us, and we are going to prove that the world is wrong.

[Stillriledup]

The NFL says that the NE balls were found to be under-inflated late in the 1st half. They were properly inflated at the start of the 2nd half, and were still good at the end of the game. Using properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the scoring was NE 28, Colts 0.

I saw an article quoting an anonymous source supposedly familiar with the Patriots who said this whole thing is a gold mine for Belichick. He said that Bill is at his best when he can psych the team into a mindset that it is the whole world against us, and we are going to prove that the world is wrong.

Funny because the Seahawks feel the same way. Lots of disrespect for the previous champs, when you are the defending champs, people should be talking about you like you are a dynasty in the making, and people aren't saying that...in fact, at many places, New England is the FAVORITE to win. Carroll just has to put the betting spread on the board to show that the consensus is that the Pats are the more likely winner according to "everyone".

[Clocker]

When it comes down to devious mind games, my money is on Belichick.

[mountainman]

Obviously you are not reading my post right. I even went so far and said I could care less about the footballs.
The precedent though does matter. If a coach is held responsible, whether he knows or not, then belicheat should be held accountable whether he knows or not!

yeah..I think that to some extent we are misunderstanding each other. I agree about Belichick.

[Dark Horse]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/-bill-belichick-doubles-down-on-patriots--innocence-in-deflate-gate--dares-nfl-to-prove-him-wrong-225504102.html

I still don't understand how the balls became underinflated by two pounds, but the above presentation by Belichick is, in my eyes, very truthful. This is not somebody trying to hide something. I've seen enough politicians lie through their teeth to know the difference.

[DJofSD]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/-bill-belichick-doubles-down-on-patriots--innocence-in-deflate-gate--dares-nfl-to-prove-him-wrong-225504102.html

I still don't understand how the balls became underinflated by two pounds, but the above presentation by Belichick is, in my eyes, very truthful. This is not somebody trying to hide something. I've seen enough politicians lie through their teeth to know the difference.
Were the footballs in question seized by the NFL after it was discovered they were suspect?

This investigation will eventually find its way onto Adam's and Jamie's program.

[burnsy]

Funny because the Seahawks feel the same way. Lots of disrespect for the previous champs, when you are the defending champs, people should be talking about you like you are a dynasty in the making, and people aren't saying that...in fact, at many places, New England is the FAVORITE to win. Carroll just has to put the betting spread on the board to show that the consensus is that the Pats are the more likely winner according to "everyone".


That's what Carroll wants. He doesn't want respect or to be big faves. One of the Seahawks secrets of success is playing with a chip. They are always mad about something.....then he tells them to unleash that on the field. The guys like Sherman, that's part of the act. Stir it up........ The more he makes them feel they've got something to prove, usually the harder they play. He milks every ounce out of these guys and the ones that are not on board...get a one way ticket out of Seattle. "Everyone" said the same thing last year about Denver, look what actually happened. New England is better than Denver was but the road to the Super Bowl was kind of easy for them considering the competition. I think Seattle is a good bet because if anyone else makes it from the AFC they are prohibitive favorites. Listen to all the "Belichick" talk, meanwhile in the last couple years Carroll has beaten everyone, more times than not badly. After his New England stint, he probably wants this one badly too. This is just how he wants it, he gets these guys up for big games with anger which leads to aggression. They were flat last week, which rarely happens, chances of that happening again next week are slim. They just seem like the best team in the league until someone can beat them. New England is probably the only one with a chance (from the AFC) so that makes the spread lower too.

[Marshall Bennett]

I see the distraction hurting the Seahawks a lot more than the Pats.
If this is the case, conspiracy theorist will claim the Pats let the air out of the balls for this reason, not to help Brady. :)

[kingfin66]

I wouldn't want to be a no name equipment manager for the the Patriots right now.

Someone is going to take the bullet.

This looks to be the direction things are heading.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/26/7917523/nfl-investigating-patriots-locker-room-attendant-for-deflategate

[MutuelClerk]

Ryan Braun approves the path this is taking.

[Rookies]

Latest from the Inspector Clousseau Clowns on the trail of the crime...

"The NFL has zeroed in on a New England Patriots locker room attendant who allegedly took the AFC Championship Game balls from the officials' locker room to another area on the way to the field, Fox Sports reported, citing sources. According to Fox Sports, the league has interviewed him and has video."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So, the Keystone Kops Gestapo is zoning in on the $25/ hr. Ball Boy as the mastermind?

FFS... that kid wouldn't be dropping a deuce in the bowl, without checking whether it was okay with Brady and Bellicheat! And they haven't even spoken word one to Brady yet?

Come on Man.

[lamboguy]

that's going to be the fall guy, don't worry about it, they usually get taken care of real well if they do the right thing.

[Stillriledup]

Latest from the Inspector Clousseau Clowns on the trail of the crime...

"The NFL has zeroed in on a New England Patriots locker room attendant who allegedly took the AFC Championship Game balls from the officials' locker room to another area on the way to the field, Fox Sports reported, citing sources. According to Fox Sports, the league has interviewed him and has video."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So, the Keystone Kops Gestapo is zoning in on the $25/ hr. Ball Boy as the mastermind?

FFS... that kid wouldn't be dropping a deuce in the bowl, without checking whether it was okay with Brady and Bellicheat! And they haven't even spoken word one to Brady yet?

Come on Man.

Totally agree. Zero chance some attendant is going to alter balls without instructions from someone important. Also, to suggest that this guy was doing it on his own there's probably no way the guy even knew what the ramifications were to do it.....nobody is going to alter balls and risk their own reputation for absolute no reason whatsoever. Blaming some "rogue" attendant just makes no sense...its not even close to believable.

[Rookies]

Totally agree. Zero chance some attendant is going to alter balls without instructions from someone important. Also, to suggest that this guy was doing it on his own there's probably no way the guy even knew what the ramifications were to do it.....nobody is going to alter balls and risk their own reputation for absolute no reason whatsoever. Blaming some "rogue" attendant just makes no sense...its not even close to believable.


It makes a multi billion dollar biz org look like a Mom and Pop operation that couldn't give you back the correct change for a $5. This year has been a public relations embarassment of Titanic proportions.

Has Goodell executed one major decision properly? Their entire off season is going to be under a shroud of shame, ridicule and buffoonery! Everything from Ray Ray to Peterson to strange calls, to overruled calls, to pretzel like interpretations of what constitutes a Catch to this... :bang:

[JustRalph]

after he gets fired, he can live on Macaroni and cheese forever

[Rookies]

Ooopsy! Get the Popcorn ready. Everybody is coming out of the closet..

Hell Having No Fury...

Miko Grimes, wife of Dolphins Corner, Brent Grimes...

"I have friends that were beaten, thrown down stairs WHILE PREGNANT, guys arrested, and the NFL suspended them one f---ing game! Now Ya’ll care?”

Currently in the midst of the “deflategate” Super Bowl crises, the NFL was also taken to task for its handling of the Ray Rice case earlier this season.

“The NFL is the s---tiest, shadiest, disrespectful professional sport in the world!!! As long as I breathe air, I wil talk s--- about them!

Yall better PRAY i dont get a real voice in these streets or im airing this whole league out! @nfl i know where the bodies are buried! TRUST ME.

Im contemplating naming SEVERAL players that the @nfl violated the concussion rules with players but that would take down ppl i care about."

[Stillriledup]

Ooopsy! Get the Popcorn ready. Everybody is coming out of the closet..

Hell Having No Fury...

Miko Grimes, wife of Dolphins Corner, Brent Grimes...

"I have friends that were beaten, thrown down stairs WHILE PREGNANT, guys arrested, and the NFL suspended them one f---ing game! Now Ya’ll care?”

Currently in the midst of the “deflategate” Super Bowl crises, the NFL was also taken to task for its handling of the Ray Rice case earlier this season.

“The NFL is the s---tiest, shadiest, disrespectful professional sport in the world!!! As long as I breathe air, I wil talk s--- about them!

Yall better PRAY i dont get a real voice in these streets or im airing this whole league out! @nfl i know where the bodies are buried! TRUST ME.

Im contemplating naming SEVERAL players that the @nfl violated the concussion rules with players but that would take down ppl i care about."

MIKO UNLOADS STORY AT ELEVEN!!! :D

[DJofSD]

Tirade here: http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/01/26/wife-of-dolphins-cb-brent-grimes-goes-on-tirade-says-nfl-is-anti-women-and-greedy/#__federated=1

[Rookies]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/-bill-belichick-doubles-down-on-patriots--innocence-in-deflate-gate--dares-nfl-to-prove-him-wrong-225504102.html

I still don't understand how the balls became underinflated by two pounds, but the above presentation by Belichick is, in my eyes, very truthful. This is not somebody trying to hide something. I've seen enough politicians lie through their teeth to know the difference.

Seriously?

Was it just 4 days ago that Bellicheat first spoke to the Media and claimed he didn't know a Kilopascal from a Kumquat! Didn't know she-ite from shineola about anything to do with Footballs!

And 2 days later, he's a combo of Hawking and Bill Nye, and knows the Physics of everything.

It's all complete bull from Bill and doesn't explain why the balls on the other side of the field were strangely unaffected by these Science Black holes.

And this...

"The debate on this is going to go on forever, at least unless the NFL's investigation uncovers video footage of an assistant equipment manager taking a tire needle to a game ball. And based on how bold Belichick brought it in an unprecedented and previously unscheduled media session Saturday afternoon, the czar of the Patriots is confident no such video exists."

Bzzzzzzt... Well that's old news, as that is exactly what the NFL has. The next step for Goodell... pinning the blame for this mess entirely on part time Game ball dude, may not exactly fly with 100 Million Non Patsies' fans.

We may have come down with the rain, but it wasn't yesterday's !

[Stillriledup]

Seriously?

Was it just 4 days ago that Bellicheat first spoke to the Media and claimed he didn't know a Kilopascal from a Kumquat! Didn't know she-ite from shineola about anything to do with Footballs!

And 2 days later, he's a combo of Hawking and Bill Nye, and knows the Physics of everything.

It's all complete bull from Bill and doesn't explain why the balls on the other side of the field were strangely unaffected by these Science Black holes.

And this...

"The debate on this is going to go on forever, at least unless the NFL's investigation uncovers video footage of an assistant equipment manager taking a tire needle to a game ball. And based on how bold Belichick brought it in an unprecedented and previously unscheduled media session Saturday afternoon, the czar of the Patriots is confident no such video exists."

Bzzzzzzt... Well that's old news, as that is exactly what the NFL has. The next step for Goodell... pinning the blame for this mess entirely on part time Game ball dude, may not exactly fly with 100 Million Non Patsies' fans.

We may have come down with the rain, but it wasn't yesterday's !

Only a complete moron would buy the game ball dude story.

[cj's dad]

If it looks like a pig, smells like a pig and grunts like a pig it most likely is a pig !! Bill Belechick fits the mold to a tee. He is a cheater!! These things do not happen in a vacuum!!!

[Stillriledup]

If it looks like a pig, smells like a pig and grunts like a pig it most likely is a pig !! Bill Belechick fits the mold to a tee. He is a cheater!! These things do not happen in a vacuum!!!

The advanced stats on the fumbles don't lie...that tells a HUGE picture, its like a DNA print, its ironclad.

[Rookies]

The advanced stats on the fumbles don't lie...that tells a HUGE picture, its like a DNA print, its ironclad.

THAT is the key.

Aided by the Cheatriots big guns, people are being misguided into thinking that it was a negligible advantage for Brady's Passing. Perhaps.

But, the big advantage is Receivers catching and Running Backs running with a deflated ball. Easier to grasp; ergo less fumbles and game changing moments.

[JustRalph]

This fumble stat is very interesting stuff.

[banacek]

The fumble stat is interesting, but not compelling. Good teams fumble less than bad teams. Good players fumble less than bad players. (any surprise that the 76ers have the most turnovers in the NBA) I would guess Belichick is pretty intolerant for fumbling..more so than almost any coach - it doesn't take much for him to cut someone.

Still, it is possible.

Interesting article here from SI with a possible explanation from a chemistry prof:

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/

“By the ideal gas law, a football inflated to 12.5 at 72 degrees and cooled to 51 degrees [the temperature on the field during the first half] will have a final pressure of 11.43 psi, thus a loss of 1.16 psi … A second factor, the expansion of a football as it gets wet, also leads to a drop in psi. This factor contributes another 0.7 psi in pressure drop … Plain English ultimate conclusion: It would be reasonable to expect, based on both experimental results and ideal gas law calculations, for a pressure drop in excess of 1.5 psi to have occurred within the Patriots footballs in the first half, based on the known game-time conditions and the observation that the footballs were inflated to 12.5 relative psi at room temperature.

“[But] what about the Colts footballs? We don’t know their initial pressure, but if we assume that they were the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi relative pressure, we can calculate the expected pressure drop. Thus the Colts footballs should have been a final pressure of 12.3 psi. The legal lower limit is 12.5 psi. The Colts footballs should have been illegal by 0.2 psi. Question: Would a referee call a reading of 12.3 rather than 12.5 to be clearly out of specifications and illegal? Maybe yes, maybe no. It certainly depends on both the accuracy and precision of the pressure gauge.

“Final conclusion: It is not unreasonable at all to assume that the Patriots balls would fail the inspection and the Colts balls would (barely) pass, based upon logical assumptions of inflation levels, inflation temperatures in concert with the issues of temperature-related gas expansion, the expansion properties of a leather football as it becomes water-soaked, and the human-element.”

[tucker6]

The fumble stat is interesting, but not compelling. Good teams fumble less than bad teams. Good players fumble less than bad players. (any surprise that the 76ers have the most turnovers in the NBA) I would guess Belichick is pretty intolerant for fumbling..more so than almost any coach - it doesn't take much for him to cut someone.

Still, it is possible.


Okay, let's take away team stats and look at players. This from post #112:

"Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3)."

I don't believe for a moment that NE stresses the fumbling aspect of the game over every other team. That's naive. Turnovers are the THE game changing stat in the NFL. If you can find a way to tip the balance in that stat, it upsets the competitive balance in the league. That's why this is so important.

[banacek]

As I said it is possible.

The science is interesting to me. It is also quite possible NE figured out that balls inflated at the low end of the acceptable range would naturally deflate during the game without them altering the balls in any way...just let nature take its course. If that happened, the question becomes 'Is that cheating?'

Again possibly :)

[tucker6]

As I said it is possible.

The science is interesting to me. It is also quite possible NE figured out that balls inflated at the low end of the acceptable range would naturally deflate during the game without them altering the balls in any way...just let nature take its course. If that happened, the question becomes 'Is that cheating?'

Again possibly :)
Wilson, the manufacturing of the ball, said it was not possible. Twice calling Belichick's science project BS. Said you would have to have them in a freezer for a couple hours to see the effects.

You sound like a Patriots fan.

[banacek]

You sound like a Patriots fan.

Nope..Seahawks all the way! I am actually a statistician - I always look at raw statistics critically before making conclusions - part of the job.

P.S. I think his experiment was lousy, but there would be some drop in air pressure.

[tucker6]

Nope..Seahawks all the way! I am actually a statistician - I always look at raw statistics critically before making conclusions - part of the job.

P.S. I think his experiment was lousy, but there would be some drop in air pressure.
so what is your conclusion to this information?

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/stats_show_the_new_england_patriots_became_nearly_ fumble_proof_after_a_2006.2.html

Amazing difference between NE's fumble rate from 2000-2006 and 2007-2014. I guess Bill got more serious about teaching his ball carriers about fumbling techniques after the 2006 season. It surely couldn't have been the rule change after the 2006 season that Brady had instituted allowing each team to take care of their own balls before games. No, couldn't be that.

[Rookies]

The latest update (via the Patsies one week in :rolleyes: ) says something interesting- but possibly about the usual, sloppy Referees. Patriots say that Brady checks at least one ball and in this case, all were handed to the Ref, who then approved the balls.

Question is, did they do their job and check the psi and weight as the Chief of Officiating says they ALWAYS do OR blow it off as inconsequential?

My guess is the latter.

And the Pats? They have likely done this for so long as a below the radar cheating procedure, that Bellichek and Brady were very confident that it would be blown off- after they slightly deflated those balls to Brady's liking.

Really, really smart, these Cheatriots and absolving them from doing something illegal, but ensuring that it was the responsibility of the Refs to get it corrected.

Ah well. No more comments until the NFL Keystone Kops report comes out in... a month from now... or the Spring... or WHFO.

[lamboguy]

so what is your conclusion to this information?

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/stats_show_the_new_england_patriots_became_nearly_ fumble_proof_after_a_2006.2.html

Amazing difference between NE's fumble rate from 2000-2006 and 2007-2014. I guess Bill got more serious about teaching his ball carriers about fumbling techniques after the 2006 season. It surely couldn't have been the rule change after the 2006 season that Brady had instituted allowing each team to take care of their own balls before games. No, couldn't be that.i think the moral of the whole story is KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL

[tucker6]

[QUOTE=tucker6]so what is your conclusion to this information?


I am guessing Bill took some science classes :)
haha. Fair enough. :ThmbUp:

[DJofSD]

So, come Sunday, will the Seahawks attempt to strip the ball more often and with more vigor?

[Dark Horse]

I do believe Belichick, but not Brady. When he said "I never altered the balls', that's lawyer speak that indicated that someone else was doing so, and that he knew it. No equipment manager would knowingly change the ball, unless the QB knew. That's a 100% certainty.

The fumble stats are interesting as well, but I would consider those a positive side effect of the softer ball; not something that was doctored by Belichick. In retrospect those numbers offer a strong indication about how long the Patriots have been cheating.

In the end it's all about the QB's comfort level with the ball. In 2006 Brady and Manning were the main forces behind the request to allow teams greater control over their footballs. Not a coincidence. Brady almost certainly is the initiator of this whole thing. Unfortunately, Kraft and Goodell are too close for the NFL to lay down the law.

[cj's dad]

I do believe Belichick, but not Brady. When he said "I never altered the balls', that's lawyer speak that indicated that someone else was doing so, and that he knew it. No equipment manager would knowingly change the ball, unless the QB knew. That's a 100% certainty.

The fumble stats are interesting as well, but I would consider those a positive side effect of the softer ball; not something that was doctored by Belichick. In retrospect those numbers offer a strong indication about how long the Patriots have been cheating.
.

Brady has thrown 7168 passes in his NFL career. He would know if the ball didn't have the right # of dimples on its' surface.

The 1st time a shoplifter is caught is almost certainly not the first time for shoplifting.

[Stillriledup]

The fumble stat is interesting, but not compelling. Good teams fumble less than bad teams. Good players fumble less than bad players. (any surprise that the 76ers have the most turnovers in the NBA) I would guess Belichick is pretty intolerant for fumbling..more so than almost any coach - it doesn't take much for him to cut someone.

Still, it is possible.

Interesting article here from SI with a possible explanation from a chemistry prof:

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/

“By the ideal gas law, a football inflated to 12.5 at 72 degrees and cooled to 51 degrees [the temperature on the field during the first half] will have a final pressure of 11.43 psi, thus a loss of 1.16 psi … A second factor, the expansion of a football as it gets wet, also leads to a drop in psi. This factor contributes another 0.7 psi in pressure drop … Plain English ultimate conclusion: It would be reasonable to expect, based on both experimental results and ideal gas law calculations, for a pressure drop in excess of 1.5 psi to have occurred within the Patriots footballs in the first half, based on the known game-time conditions and the observation that the footballs were inflated to 12.5 relative psi at room temperature.

“[But] what about the Colts footballs? We don’t know their initial pressure, but if we assume that they were the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi relative pressure, we can calculate the expected pressure drop. Thus the Colts footballs should have been a final pressure of 12.3 psi. The legal lower limit is 12.5 psi. The Colts footballs should have been illegal by 0.2 psi. Question: Would a referee call a reading of 12.3 rather than 12.5 to be clearly out of specifications and illegal? Maybe yes, maybe no. It certainly depends on both the accuracy and precision of the pressure gauge.

“Final conclusion: It is not unreasonable at all to assume that the Patriots balls would fail the inspection and the Colts balls would (barely) pass, based upon logical assumptions of inflation levels, inflation temperatures in concert with the issues of temperature-related gas expansion, the expansion properties of a leather football as it becomes water-soaked, and the human-element.”

Its compelling. New England hasn't won a Super Bowl in that span, so they've never been the "best team" you would think the "best team" would have the least amount of fumbles and so on and so forth, i dont think this stat is "good team or bad team" based. Players fight hard for yardage, when they are in the midst of a play and people are chasing them around, they're not thinking "i play for the Pats so i fumble less" instinct takes over and they either fumble or they don't.

I would love to see before this Patriots "fumble run" if dome teams were always at the top...in other words if the entire body of statistics seems skewed towards indoor teams or warm weather teams that would make the stats even more telling.

[banacek]

I like what Louie C.K. has to say about it:

l6EGmhfXMLI

[DJofSD]

Science channel, Thursday night, Deflate-gate special on "How It's Made."

[FantasticDan]

Some of Boston's finest claiming responsibility.. :D :ThmbUp:

feuNeJewzDo

[Stillriledup]

Some of Boston's finest claiming responsibility.. :D :ThmbUp:

feuNeJewzDo

Yes, the more we poke fun at this, the more it desensitizes the nature of the cheating, makes it less serious.

There are some very serious issues that people do NOT poke fun at, at least not this soon....of course, this isn't one of them.

The loveable cheaters, the Pats just being the Pats.

[banacek]

The loveable cheaters, the Pats just being the Pats.

Colts vs. Seahawks in SRUperbowl XLIX?

[Stillriledup]

Colts vs. Seahawks in SRUperbowl XLIX?

I would have the Ravens, they're the only other team in the AFC who's any good. Everyone else sucks.

At least in my Super Bowl i wouldn't turn out the lights on purpose and pretend it was an accident...i'd 'man up' and admit i did it for ratings, to show more commercials, to "ice" the team with the big lead, etc.

[NJ Stinks]

I would have the Ravens, they're the only other team in the AFC who's any good. Everyone else sucks.



I believe the Chargers are really a good team. They showed it by how well they played the NFC West this year. They beat Seattle, SF, and the Rams and barely lost to the Cardinals by a point in Week 1.

[Stillriledup]

I believe the Chargers are really a good team. They showed it by how well they played the NFC West this year. They beat Seattle, SF, and the Rams and barely lost to the Cardinals by a point in Week 1.

I just think playoff mentality is different, SD was in a "playoff game" vs KC and lost.....so, i dont know where their heads are at when they HAVE to win in a playoff atmosphere. I like the Chargers, i'd love them to get to a SB or a title game, the AFC is 'up for grabs' these days, if SD can improve just a smidge for next season, they could be right there.

[JustRalph]

The Patriots got there AFC Championship rings last night

[Stillriledup]

The Patriots got there AFC Championship rings last night

LOVE IT! :D

[ElKabong]

Tom Brady = modern day Gaylord Perry. He lives inside the head of every opponent and 90% of the media

Maybe he can thank Belichek for that...who cares? He has an advantage over the weak minded. Seriously doubt he'd be stupid enough to throw the pass Wilson did on 2nd and goal. And his coaching staff was too smart for that to happen also.

there's your answer....Smart folks just beat the dumb guys.....Yeah Pete, go for it on 4th and 3 at midfield with 2 minutes left against TEXAS.....Give Vince Young a chance to beat you at midfield vs punting deep & making Vince pass intermediate to deep throws vs a defense that did one thing well that night (defend the deep pass). Genius!! :D

Dumbass :lol: