I can't believe it has almost been 40 years.

[RacingFan1992]

I know this is a bit premature but this year on July 6, 2015 will mark the 40th anniversary when Ruffian, the Filly Triple Crown winner of 1975, and Foolish Pleasure, the Kentucky Derby winner of 1975, were matched at a mile and a quarter at Belmont Park dubbed "The Great Match Race". I hope the connections of Ruffian like Stuart Janney III will give her a nice tribute or something. One thing I liked about her is she went to the lead, stayed at the lead, and won on the lead. In my opinion, she is the best overall filly that ever set foot on the track.

[Ocala Mike]

I'm sure the late Frank Whitely, Jr. and an ex-jock now living around Ocala by the name of Jacinto Vasquez would agree with your assessment.

The best racing book I ever read (even better than "Seabiscuit") is "Ruffian, Burning From the Start," by Jane Schwartz.

[Ruffian1]

Totally agree.

She left a lifetime impression on me as you can see by my handle .

Never forget where I was when that happened.

She left me in shock when she ran down the backside at Monmouth as a two year old.

Forty years later, it's still just Wow.

[RacingFan1992]

I was reading in an article, I think it was from the Blood Horse, Frank always wondered what would have happened had he put her up against the likes of ol' Forego. Lets not get into that. LOL.

[thespaah]

I know this is a bit premature but this year on July 6, 2015 will mark the 40th anniversary when Ruffian, the Filly Triple Crown winner of 1975, and Foolish Pleasure, the Kentucky Derby winner of 1975, were matched at a mile and a quarter at Belmont Park dubbed "The Great Match Race". I hope the connections of Ruffian like Stuart Janney III will give her a nice tribute or something. One thing I liked about her is she went to the lead, stayed at the lead, and won on the lead. In my opinion, she is the best overall filly that ever set foot on the track.
DAMN!!! I'm getting old....

[River11]

Been looking for an opportunity to make my first post. Ruffian has always been my favorite filly, sadly her backstretch breakdown is burned into my memory, until then I don't believe she was ever headed.
Mike

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/mwgibbs/Jokes/IMG_6060.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/mwgibbs/media/Jokes/IMG_6060.jpg.html)

[infrontby1]

Nice piece on Ruffian...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSzSnXSsMy8#t=10

[RacingFan1992]

Winning Colors, Lady's Secret, Zenyatta, and Rachel Alexandra are nothing compared to the pitch black daughter of Reviewer. To think that she had the best people operating on her: Dr.'s Manuel Gilman, Alex Harthill, Jim Prendergast, and William Reed among others. 40 years later if this would have happened I don't think she would have survived either.

[Stillriledup]

Welcome to the board River! Is that a hat from the 1970s?

[River11]

Welcome to the board River! Is that a hat from the 1970s?
No, it came from horsehats.com but I got it when they first came out with it.

[Stillriledup]

No, it came from horsehats.com but I got it when they first came out with it.

I saw the smudge mark on the top so i thought it might have been a hat from back in the day. Nice hat though, i like it.

[Cratos]

Totally agree.

She left a lifetime impression on me as you can see by my handle .

Never forget where I was when that happened.

She left me in shock when she ran down the backside at Monmouth as a two year old.

Forty years later, it's still just Wow.

Ruffian had incredible cursing speed and I am very proud to have her photo on my wall.

[Grits]

I'm sure the late Frank Whitely, Jr. and an ex-jock now living around Ocala by the name of Jacinto Vasquez would agree with your assessment.

The best racing book I ever read (even better than "Seabiscuit") is "Ruffian, Burning From the Start," by Jane Schwartz.

OMike, Ruffian's author, Jane Schwartz surely knew her subject's life. Its an amazing story. This copy I have is a first edition hardback. I bought it in Lexington in 2000 from someone, at the time, in need of cash. I have no idea what I could sell it for today. But I keep it, as now and then, I still go back and read a few pages from it.

Seabiscuit, I bought, and too, saw the movie, but neither had that much appeal, for some reason.

Another of the best for me was Dark Horse, Unraveling the Mystery of Neartic. Sire of Northern Dancer. One of the most touching stories I've read on racehorses, he was so mismanaged, yet, he had such tremendous heart, running on bad feet. Its no wonder that he passed that heart on to Northern Dancer. Both of these are written by Muriel Lennox, she, of course, worked at E.P. Taylor's Windfield Farm for a while. ... Good reads.

[horses4courses]

I wasn't lucky enough to ever see Ruffian run.
Glad I missed seeing her demise, though.
Had my fill of that watching Go For Wand and Bayakoa.
I understand that Ruffian could have beaten them handily.

[clocker7]

I've never understood the foregone conclusion--growing as the years pass--that FP would have lost. Go look at videos of his Preakness and Belmont.

[DeltaLover]

I hope the connections of Ruffian like Stuart Janney III will give her a nice tribute or something


WOW!!!

You really care about Ruffian connections giving her a nice tribute????

All of us love her, but Ruffian, is a thing of the past and her story has been discussed thousand of times and has even become a movie!!! I really this there is nothing more to be added in her (sad) story....

I am surprised to detect the amount of nostalgia that is usually found in many of the conversations among horse players.. Currently, we have another thread, running simultaneously:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119751

where again, posters seem to be hooked in the past and obviously very enthusiastic about telling stories that occurred decades before, like if they matter the least for anything and anybody!!!

IMHO I would propose, picking our topics to be more pragmatic and contemporary, instead of consuming our electronic ink, in stories that occurred in the distant past having no impact to our careers as bettors...

[thaskalos]

WOW!!!

You really care about Ruffian connections giving her a nice tribute????

All of us love her, but Ruffian, is a thing of the past and her story has been discussed thousand of times and has even become a movie!!! I really this there is nothing more to be added in her (sad) story....

I am surprised to detect the amount of nostalgia that is usually found in many of the conversations among horse players.. Currently, we have another thread, running simultaneously:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119751

where again, posters seem to be hooked in the past and obviously very enthusiastic about telling stories that occurred decades before, like if they matter the least for anything and anybody!!!

IMHO I would propose, picking our topics to be more pragmatic and contemporary, instead of consuming our electronic ink, in stories that occurred in the distant past having no impact to our careers as bettors...

Hey...even the serious-as-a-heart-attack horseplayer bleeds if you cut him.

[horses4courses]

WOW!!!

You really care about Ruffian connections giving her a nice tribute????

All of us love her, but Ruffian, is a thing of the past and her story has been discussed thousand of times and has even become a movie!!! I really this there is nothing more to be added in her (sad) story....

I am surprised to detect the amount of nostalgia that is usually found in many of the conversations among horse players.. Currently, we have another thread, running simultaneously:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119751

where again, posters seem to be hooked in the past and obviously very enthusiastic about telling stories that occurred decades before, like if they matter the least for anything and anybody!!!

IMHO I would propose, picking our topics to be more pragmatic and contemporary, instead of consuming our electronic ink, in stories that occurred in the distant past having no impact to our careers as bettors...

All of us have a choice regarding the threads on here.
You can participate, or not.

[thaskalos]

Freakin NYers... :)

[DeltaLover]

All of us have a choice regarding the threads on here.
You can participate, or not.

Of course you are right, but still I think, that I can always make a comment based on the topics selected...

[Tom]

Of course you are right, but still I think, that I can always make a comment based on the topics selected...

Anyone is free to make a fool of themselves any time.

[thaskalos]

Of course you are right, but still I think, that I can always make a comment based on the topics selected...

Yes...but WE, in turn, have the right to correct you when you are wrong. :cool:

[Grits]

No, don't think this is a comment. Believe this is a proposal.

Of course, including a comment bolstering the proposal.

Big difference.

Most likely, PA will take both under consideration. Robert's Rules Of Order and all. :lol:

[biggestal99]

I've never understood the foregone conclusion--growing as the years pass--that FP would have lost. Go look at videos of his Preakness and Belmont.

Well thats a debate with no definitive answer. I have heard both schools of thought.
Think ruffian would have won by a length or so on each of their best performnce
But than again i would habe picked war admirial against seabiscuit sooooo.....

Allan

[Stillriledup]

I wasn't lucky enough to ever see Ruffian run.
Glad I missed seeing her demise, though.
Had my fill of that watching Go For Wand and Bayakoa.
I understand that Ruffian could have beaten them handily.

I don't ever recall Ruffian switching leads properly, at least she didn't switch leads in the races i saw on tape. So, its hard for me to visually imagine that she was going to be "in hand" vs elite all time great horses. I guess the biggest question would be this. Are the horses Ruffian beat equal to or greater than GFW and Bayakoa. If they are than yes, she would have beaten them handily. If those horses were much better, than Ruffian might have had a battle on her hooves.

[porchy44]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_LJ8WMD6mw

9 parts though.

[thespaah]

No, don't think this is a comment. Believe this is a proposal.

Of course, including a comment bolstering the proposal.

Big difference.

Most likely, PA will take both under consideration. Robert's Rules Of Order and all. :lol:
:lol:

[FocusWiz]

Somewhere I still have my "Ruffian" button that I got at Belmont that fateful day. She was something to watch.

[clocker7]

Well thats a debate with no definitive answer. I have heard both schools of thought.
Think ruffian would have won by a length or so on each of their best performnce
But than again i would habe picked war admirial against seabiscuit sooooo.....

Allan
I would be hard-pressed to maintain that Ruffian was a lock to beat Foolish Pleasure that July. It's not like he tended to fade as the distance got longer. His Preakness Stakes was sort of a bizarre stretch run where Master Derby found a tire track for a firm path. And the Belmont found FP somewhat blocked going into the final turn, going wide, and only to miss by a tiny, decreasing margin. Did Ruffian have that much of an insurmountable lead on him? :lol:

And that was Foolish Pleasure, and not one of the other 70s greats. Imo, the Ruffian hype has become considerably overblown. Great horse, she .... sure. But not an unapproachable, unbeatable amazon. Exactly how many track records did she shatter, you say?

[Stillriledup]

I would be hard-pressed to maintain that Ruffian was a lock to beat Foolish Pleasure that July. It's not like he tended to fade as the distance got longer. His Preakness Stakes was sort of a bizarre stretch run where Master Derby found a tire track for a firm path. And the Belmont found FP somewhat blocked going into the final turn, going wide, and only to miss by a tiny, decreasing margin. Did Ruffian have that much of an insurmountable lead on him? :lol:

And that was Foolish Pleasure, and not one of the other 70s greats. Imo, the Ruffian hype has become considerably overblown. Great horse, she .... sure. But not an unapproachable, unbeatable amazon. Exactly how many track records did she shatter, you say?


This is a very tricky debate because Ruffian is possibly the most beloved race horse in American culture and if she's not #1, she's really close. She's an "untouchable" in horse racing lure..so, to even debate her merits on the track is a very sensitive subject.

[Cratos]

This is a very tricky debate because Ruffian is possibly the most beloved race horse in American culture and if she's not #1, she's really close. She's an "untouchable" in horse racing lure..so, to even debate her merits on the track is a very sensitive subject.
Not only is she still a "beloved" horse; she was one helluva filly. She was big, graceful, and very fast.

The 3yo fillies that I would put in the class with her would be Rachel Alexandra and Go For Wand although I don't believe either of them would've beaten Ruffian.

[Investorater]

Ruffian's fighting spirit proved to be her downfall when she smashed her cast and never arose.

She deserved her admiration by competing with the natural risks of injury that can take place in any race horse and at any time.

Ruffian raced as a champion and she left us like a champion. God bless her, we should be appreciative of having known her.

[RacingFan1992]

Crazy thing was a few days ago I posted a response on the NYRA Facebook page and got a response that said I won an 8x10 picture of Ruffian. Kinda cool. Wish I could have seen her and am happy to have met a horse who carried the same silks as her.

[iceknight]

I am new to the sport (just 4 years old into this sport) and I like hearing these stories/nostalgia/titbits of wisdom and laughter/sadness etc. They absolutely matter.

Here is nice pictorial coverage on her from few years back that I had stumbled on a few months ago: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/slideshows/slideshow/Ruffian/ruffian-a-photographic-tribute

[dilanesp]

Winning Colors, Lady's Secret, Zenyatta, and Rachel Alexandra are nothing compared to the pitch black daughter of Reviewer. To think that she had the best people operating on her: Dr.'s Manuel Gilman, Alex Harthill, Jim Prendergast, and William Reed among others. 40 years later if this would have happened I don't think she would have survived either.

Ruffian never faced any field like the two that Zenyatta faced in the BC Classic.

It really annoys me how people underrate Zenyatta. We will go decades without another female BC Classic winner - she missed by a head from winning it twice. The only MALES with better records in the race are Tiznow and Alysheba.

[RacingFan1992]

Ruffian never faced any field like the two that Zenyatta faced in the BC Classic.

It really annoys me how people underrate Zenyatta. We will go decades without another female BC Classic winner - she missed by a head from winning it twice. The only MALES with better records in the race are Tiznow and Alysheba.

I am not touching that one with a 10 furlong pole. Both horses were criticized for their running style. Ruffian would go to the lead and never look back while Zenyatta would drop way back and enjoyed passing everyone on the way to the finish line.

[biggestal99]

Ruffian never faced any field like the two that Zenyatta faced in the BC Classic.

It really annoys me how people underrate Zenyatta. We will go decades without another female BC Classic winner - she missed by a head from winning it twice. The only MALES with better records in the race are Tiznow and Alysheba.

Well Ruffian would have crushed Zenyatta sprinting, no doubt about it up to a mile, than it would even out somewhat, still given Ruffian speed she would still have an edge up to 9f.
10f zenyatta would win the majority of races but ruffian would win some. 12f--same outcome z would have the edge.

Btw saw Ruffian race 6 times, saw zenyatta 3 times in person.

Both great, great female runners.

Allan

[RacingFan1992]

Well Ruffian would have crushed Zenyatta sprinting, no doubt about it up to a mile, than it would even out somewhat, still given Ruffian speed she would still have an edge up to 9f.
10f zenyatta would win the majority of races but ruffian would win some. 12f--same outcome z would have the edge.

Btw saw Ruffian race 6 times, saw zenyatta 3 times in person.

Both great, great female runners.

Allan

Which races were they?

[biggestal99]

Which races were they?

All of Ruffian's 3 year old races. 5 wins. 1 breakdown. All of Zenyatta's Breeders Cups
2 wins 1 lost by a head.

Allan

[tubesockshakur]

Melair was a great 3 year old she only had 5 starts but was as fast as anyone.

[classhandicapper]

I've never understood the foregone conclusion--growing as the years pass--that FP would have lost. Go look at videos of his Preakness and Belmont.

Ruffian had more natural speed than Foolish Pleasure and given the way the race was developing, I think she would have put him away at some point.

[RacingFan1992]

Ruffian had more natural speed than Foolish Pleasure and given the way the race was developing, I think she would have put him away at some point.

I thought Jolley said something along the lines that he never thought FP would have won.

I know there were two gut-wrenching moments for the two horses:

FP breezed faster than Jolley would have liked which made LeRoy almost chirp his chips because he thought the horse worked too hard.

As for Ruffian there was one moment when a horse threw its rider and Frank saw what she was doing. Ruffian took off after the loose horse and the rider tried to keep her under wraps but she just wanted to prove no one would ever pass her.

This is the unwritten symphony of horse racing.

[iceknight]

All of Ruffian's 3 year old races. 5 wins. 1 breakdown. All of Zenyatta's Breeders Cups
2 wins 1 lost by a head.

Allanslightly off-topic but have u seen Landaluce in action too?

[Kash$]

Hard to imagine any 2 year old filly better then Landaluce

[Tall One]

I never had the privelage to see Ruffian run except for the kind folks on the YouTube, but fillies i thought were special I can remember: Personal Ensign, Go For Wand, Surfside, and Secret Status.

I was at Keeneland watching the BC simulcast when Go For Wand broke down. It was closing day, and back then the Phoenix Stakes was always the last day feature so there was a good crowd. But when the spill happened, you could've heard a pin drop out there.

[clocker7]

People should read real-time newspaper accounts in order to wade through the legend BS.

Here's one about the FP Hex that I had forgotten about:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1873&dat=19750705&id=00UfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=edEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=833,1486694&hl=en

Another:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1243&dat=19750704&id=gGZYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8vcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3126,4161908&hl=en

[infrontby1]

People should read real-time newspaper accounts in order to wade through the legend BS.

Here's one about the FP Hex that I had forgotten about:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1873&dat=19750705&id=00UfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=edEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=833,1486694&hl=en

Another:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1243&dat=19750704&id=gGZYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8vcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3126,4161908&hl=en
Wow, it's amazing, if you go through the pages of the newspaper, besides finding bathing suites on sale for a $1.99, you'll actually see a column for the results from the greyhounds and jai-lai.