NYRA Pick 5 rules (and others that need changing?)

[SG4]

I feel like this was missed in the discussion about NYRA's cancellations last week (Jan 9th in particular), but did anyone notice that on this day when they ran 2 races & then canceled that all pick 5 wagers were refunded? It seems unfair that you can have the winners of 2 races & instead of getting any sort of consolation payoff, all you get is your money back. If you had these winners in the pick 3, you got a payoff, if you had just 1 winner to begin the pick 3 or 4, you got paid as well. Why would the rules be written in this manner? Are the tracks responsible for these wager-specific rules or are these up to wagering boards? In this case the rule hurts both the track (as they miss out on the takeout from one of their most popular wagers) & on holders of "winning" tickets. I would hope someone would take the time to review this rule & consider updating it to include a consolation payout.

In a similar vein, remember there was controversy regarding a rule with NYRA pick 6's from a few years ago when races were canceled a few races into the pick 6 & I believe they kept 75% for carryover & paid out 25% in consolations, which was essentially pure robbery. Were these rules ever revisited or do they remain as they were? If anyone has a current link to NY's pick 6 rules it'd be appreciated, here are the ones for the pick 5.


http://www.nyra.com/saratoga/handicapping/pick-five-rules/


Does anyone else have any other wagering rules from any jurisdictions that might come up in rare situations but should be watched out for as somewhat against common sense? Several years back I remember a 1-5 entry at Fairgrounds, the part of the entry who was most responsible for the odds was a gate scratch, expected full refunds all around, but off they went with the worst odds-on favorite you'll ever see. Was absolutely shocked, and have since wondered what other tracks would handle this situation in the same way. Have been leery of betting coupled entries ever since I saw this happen.

[Stillriledup]

Good first post, glad to see you aboard!

The one rule that needs to be changed is dead heats in pick 4s and pick 5s where if you have a 3-5 dead heating with a 40-1 shot (this almost happened in the final leg of the huge 2 million dollar pool at Santa anita recently) you both get the same price....if two horses dead heat for win, they don't give you the same price, but in the pick anythings, they do. Many hate this rule and i have to say i agree with them.

Its a tricky call on the pick 5, i could probably make some kind of case that the refund of the entire bet is a good thing, but i believe if the track is going to run 2 races and then pay out the bet to ALLs, some bettors would be mad that the track is taking the full takeout. Also, the bet is a pick 5....so, if you don't actually pick 5 winners, you can't really complain that you picked 2 winners and they didnt pay you. As long as players know going into the bet that if the card is cancelled, the bet is refunded, at least if you know the rules when you make the bet, its not something they're springing on you at the last second.

of course, if you rout the first two races with large longshots, you're kinda interested in a conso payout and not a refund....so, it's a tricky call ....the people who get knocked out want their money back and the people who are alive to some nice prices want to continue on.

[aaron]

Good first post, glad to see you aboard!

The one rule that needs to be changed is dead heats in pick 4s and pick 5s where if you have a 3-5 dead heating with a 40-1 shot (this almost happened in the final leg of the huge 2 million dollar pool at Santa anita recently) you both get the same price....if two horses dead heat for win, they don't give you the same price, but in the pick anythings, they do. Many hate this rule and i have to say i agree with them.

Its a tricky call on the pick 5, i could probably make some kind of case that the refund of the entire bet is a good thing, but i believe if the track is going to run 2 races and then pay out the bet to ALLs, some bettors would be mad that the track is taking the full takeout. Also, the bet is a pick 5....so, if you don't actually pick 5 winners, you can't really complain that you picked 2 winners and they didnt pay you. As long as players know going into the bet that if the card is cancelled, the bet is refunded, at least if you know the rules when you make the bet, its not something they're springing on you at the last second.

of course, if you rout the first two races with large longshots, you're kinda interested in a conso payout and not a refund....so, it's a tricky call ....the people who get knocked out want their money back and the people who are alive to some nice prices want to continue on.
Good post. I am not so sure this is a bad rule. If you made an large investment and 2 odds on horses won the first 2 races,you could end up losing most of your investment. Of course 2 long shots are a different story.

[SG4]

Thanks for the kind words guys. The refund on a pick 5 wouldn't seem so egregious to me if they followed similar suit on the pick 3 or 4, but in those wagers in just picking the first winner they payout (not to mention with a 25% takeout attached, as opposed to 16% if you just bet the horse to win).

In this actual bet I had gone several deep in each of the first 2 legs, so was prepared to take a deserving loss since odds-on horses came in, so the refund was actually welcome to my bottom line, but realized how upset I could've been if 2 longshots had connected to open up the sequence. Bottom line I think if a race is declared official & you've got the winner on your ticket, something in line with a payoff has to come your way.

Agree that the rules on payoffs with dead heats need to be addressed as well, the lack of consistency is really frustrating to the customer.

[Inner Dirt]

I have to agree with Aaron. Unfortunately they can't make a rule that will make everyone happy. If you single the first two legs and went 4 deep in leg 3,4,5 and odds on favorites win the first two consolation would make you lose bad. If huge long shots win 1 & 2 a refund is going to make you really upset.