magna tracks

[PSTfredk]

i'm starting this thread in hopes that some people will follow me down the road to boycott all ALL magna tracks until they see fit
to open up to all tracks and all legal betting places

down with magna don't bet the preekness let them rott in
there on making. magna is a stock co. and if there bottom line starts hurting in big investors will clammer for change.
join me by post some thing llike this on all your chat rooms.

WHAT YOUR OPINION


passing the preekness

[BillW]

You're too late :D

http://www.boycottmagna.com/


Bill

[JimG]

My opinion is had TVG/Churchill not started signing tracks to exclusive agreements several years ago, Magna would not have stooped to pulling their signal from non-Magna sources. That said, other than in the winter, I do not feel inconvenienced as I do not follow the Magna tracks otherwise. Unless HRTV can get into more homes than it has currently, Magna will likely be forced financially to seek an alternative to this current situation.

Jim

[Valuist]

Let's hope NYRA isn't bought by them.

[BillW]

Originally posted by JimG
My opinion is had TVG/Churchill not started signing tracks to exclusive agreements several years ago, Magna would not have stooped to pulling their signal from non-Magna sources. That said, other than in the winter, I do not feel inconvenienced as I do not follow the Magna tracks otherwise. Unless HRTV can get into more homes than it has currently, Magna will likely be forced financially to seek an alternative to this current situation.

Jim

Jim,

Magna has also shut out third parties such as AmericaTab. TVG and CDSN has not. That would be the major difference.

Now that I think about it, I don't even know what is shutout besides Magna. TVG carries CDSN (video and wagering, I assume), AmericaTab carries both, and all others for that matter except for Magna. What is shutout besides Magna, and where?

Bill

[JimG]

Originally posted by BillW
Jim,

Magna has also shut out third parties such as AmericaTab. TVG and CDSN has not. That would be the major difference.

Now that I think about it, I don't even know what is shutout besides Magna. TVG carries CDSN (video and wagering, I assume), AmericaTab carries both, and all others for that matter except for Magna. What is shutout besides Magna, and where?

Bill

CDSN/TVG shut out Magna/Xpressbet long ago. This is Magna's retaliation. The third parties got caught in the middle of this war. Don't get me wrong, I'm no big fan of Magna's but I understand their strategy. I don't like it, but I understand it.

I'm sure there are alot of behind the scenes negotiating going on that we are all unaware of. As an aside, I was not comparing what Magna did this year to what CDSN did years ago when TVG started up. I am just pointing out that TVG sought exclusivity first and retained it (not allowing online betting on their tracks) until striking a deal with AmericaTab and YouBet. In my opinion TVG enjoyed natural negotiating leverage due to the overall quality of the tracks they own as compared to Magna. Magna has resorted to more drastic measures in an attempt to somehow level the playing field.

Jim

[BillW]

Jim,

The thing that I think is funny is that Frankie has shut out whole states in his vengence. I don't even have to make the choice, Magna is boycotting me! :eek:

Bill

[cato]

But the folks that tried exclusivity (and especially the tracks) discovered that it was an unsuccesful business model.

So either Magna is incompetent because they are pursuing an established unsuccessful business model -- or they are incompetent and show incredibly bad business judgment by acting out of "revenge."

Either option (or both) = a serious case of dumbass

Cato

[JimG]

Originally posted by Valuist
Let's hope NYRA isn't bought by them.

Actually, if Magna buys NYRA, they become much more attractive when packaging their tracks on a yearly basis. Until something like that happens, Churchill consortiums will not be willing to merely trade revenue with Magna on opposing signals. As it stands right now, the Churchill product is much more attractive and I imagine commands higher dollars from simulcast outlets and online services.

Ideally, I think we would like to see all signals available for any online service that we choose to use. Unfortunately, the signal is a product that must be bought (rented) at an agreed-to price. Agreeing to that price is a major hurdle. Unfortunately, the bettors get inconvenienced (shut out) due to the economics of the business at times.

Jim

[JimG]

Originally posted by BillW
Jim,

The thing that I think is funny is that Frankie has shut out whole states in his vengence. I don't even have to make the choice, Magna is boycotting me! :eek:

Bill

That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would the state you live in matter to Magna unless there is a law (or lack thereof) governing account wagering that they are concerned with? Some wagering services take a more liberal view of the state law than others.

My state is currently looking to pass account wagering laws. When that happens, only US online businesses that have been approved by the racing commission will be able to take bets from residents of my state.

Jim

[JimG]

Originally posted by cato
But the folks that tried exclusivity (and especially the tracks) discovered that it was an unsuccesful business model.

So either Magna is incompetent because they are pursuing an established unsuccessful business model -- or they are incompetent and show incredibly bad business judgment by acting out of "revenge."

Either option (or both) = a serious case of dumbass

Cato

Actually, I think they discovered that it was a public relations nightmare. The clamor was loud due to the quality of the tracks involved (NYRA, SoCal, CD) Depite that, I would bet they cut a sweet deal with YouBet and AmericaTab to carry their tracks. Other US online services (like ebet usa) do not carry either group. They obviously were not willing to pay the price.

Jim

[GameTheory]

I am in Michigan and can get an account with AmericaTab, YouBet, & OneClickBetting, but not Magna...

[JimG]

Originally posted by GameTheory
I am in Michigan and can get an account with AmericaTab, YouBet, & OneClickBetting, but not Magna...

What does your state law say with respect to account wagering? Did Xpressbet offer any reason why they did not take accounts from your state?

Jim

[GameTheory]

The XPressBet site claims that Michigan does not allow account wagering. The law itself prevents *racetracks* such as the Magna-owned Great Lakes Downs from offering account wagering, and I believe AmericaTab, etc. were blocking MI residents from betting online at GLD before Magna cut off the signal. MI residents betting with out of state account wagering providers I believe is somewhat of a gray area, but so far it has been allowed.

So maybe it has something to do with the fact that Magna owns a track in MI already and is thinking of building another one in the Detroit area. There is a big gambling / slots bill working its way through the state legislature at the moment which will clear up all these issues with more definite laws, and if which passes would mean a big windfall for Magna, so maybe they just don't want to piss off anyone here, or maybe they are actually prevented from doing it because they own a MI track...

[sjk]

Here is my best recollection of some of the history:


Xpress-bet was not allowed to carry TVG/CDI/NYRA tracks online way before Magna bought them. Ladbroke would certainly qualify as a third party.

As to not allowing bets in certain states, I remember years ago I could only bet Lone Star if I swore up and down I was not in Texas. Then I could not bet Sam Houston at all because they could not be sure I was not in Texas. They told me that was their understanding of Texas law. Again this was before Magna owned them.

When the TVG tracks started making their signals available to certain on-line betting companies, I understood at the time that it was on terms which were much more favorable to them than the terms that other tracks had accepted.

If this was true, Magna might have believed that they were the gravy train for the on-line services while TVG was going along for a free ride. This was at a time when TVG had an option to buy YouBet which is probably the biggest of the on-line services.

If I felt as though my product was being used to subsidize a major competitor, I might be tempted to change the rules of the game.

[schweitz]

JimG,

BillW and I both live in Texas---state law says no internet wagering---AmericaTab/BrisBet ignores state law. When Magna bought Lone Star Park the state only let the sale go through if they promised not to take internet wagers through expressbet in Texas. When Magna cut off AmericaTab/BrisBet we lost our ability to wager online at all the Magna tracks.

[JimG]

Originally posted by schweitz
JimG,

BillW and I both live in Texas---state law says no internet wagering---AmericaTab/BrisBet ignores state law. When Magna bought Lone Star Park the state only let the sale go through if they promised not to take internet wagers through expressbet in Texas. When Magna cut off AmericaTab/BrisBet we lost our ability to wager online at all the Magna tracks.

Thanks for the history. That was interesting. It is truly a shame that the bettors of Texas are feeling this hardship. I would place about equal blame at your state law makers and Magna for your current inconvenience.

Let's also hope your Attorney General never decides to go after America Tab. If he/she does, they will stop taking your wagers as well.

Jim

[GameTheory]

In 2001, the Michigan governor and attorney general told all the account wagering providers to stop accepting bets from MI residents because state law does not allow off-track betting. And for a time, they did, but then it was changed so that MI residents could not bet on MI tracks, so I guess someone decided the law only applied to off-track betting on local product. The new law would allow MI account wagering providers that would funnel some of the money back to MI horsemen. The law is having a hard time because of the slot thing, and we have a number of local casinos that seek to block it.

[BillW]

Originally posted by schweitz
JimG,

BillW and I both live in Texas---state law says no internet wagering---AmericaTab/BrisBet ignores state law. When Magna bought Lone Star Park the state only let the sale go through if they promised not to take internet wagers through expressbet in Texas. When Magna cut off AmericaTab/BrisBet we lost our ability to wager online at all the Magna tracks.

I think technically it is illegal everywhere (Fed. law, Wire Act 1961 http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/wire-act.htm), but is ignored in some cases ... probably used for offshore casinos etc.. I'm not sure what assurance AmericaTab needs to allow wagering in a given state, but I do know they stay out of some (as do all wagering services).

Bill

[GameTheory]

There was something called the Horse Racing Act which gave an exemption to the Wire Act for racing. In 2000, they passed an amendment:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/Amendment-Horse-Racing-Act.htm

[BillW]

Originally posted by GameTheory
There was something called the Horse Racing Act which gave an exemption to the Wire Act for racing. In 2000, they passed an amendment:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/Amendment-Horse-Racing-Act.htm

Interesting ... I've been legal all along (sorta :D )

Bill

[schweitz]

Originally posted by BillW
Interesting ... I've been legal all along (sorta :D )

Bill

I still think we are illegal according to the Texas laws.

[Whitehos]

We in Michigan have the best looking and most corrupt governor of th 50 States. She is controlled by Hartman and Tyner owners od Hazel Park not Magna. Our racing commission is second only to I llinois when it comes to corruption.























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[Valuist]

I remember having an account w/Connecticut OTB back in the mid 90s and they had to refund over half their accounts because certain states said it was illegal.

Definitely not illegal everywhere; always been legal in Nevada.

[Blackgold]

If you can use Fair Grounds Net Bet from your state, then you will get all the Magna tracks.

I have YouBet for all the CD tracks.

And I have Brisbet for whatever they will let me bet and because they give me rebates and refunds on downloads.

However, I'm seriously considering moving all to Pinnacle. But, I'm gonna wait at least a year after they started offering their rebates to see how they hold up.

From '97 until '03 I used to use TeleBet a/k/a ESB, for both sports and horses and enjoyed receiving checks by DHL overnite when I requested them, but in March of '03 tried to withdraw three thou and got the run-a-round. Later found from Offshore Gaming watchdog website that they were having problems, so gambled away the three thou+ on Pick 6's and haven't talked to them since. A buddy of mine had trouble getting one thou from them this past fall and after repeated phone calls they wired the money with a 10% charge.

So again, I will probably move to Pinnacle sometime next fall, IF I don't get any bad reports about them. As in iany endeavor, look for a track record before you buy the stock unless you are willing to speculate.