Penn St and NCAA

[zico20]

The two are in negotiations to review the sanctions against them. They are discussing reinstating the 111 losses to Joe Paterno. I think this is very appropriate. I would have had no problem with the death penalty but taking away wins in the past that was football related was just plain wrong. The kids who won those games did not deserve to have their official record torn apart. Not that they would have thought that way, but it needs to be reinstated.

[Rise Over Run]

Holier than thou Penn State and Joe Pa got what they deserved.

[Stillriledup]

Holier than thou Penn State and Joe Pa got what they deserved.

But that had nothing to do with the games on the field and certainly had nothing to do with the players who busted their tails to win those games.

[tucker6]

Holier than thou Penn State and Joe Pa got what they deserved.
Given that the NCAA has already backed away from the sanctions twice, with this potentially being the third back away, doesn't it strike you that maybe the NCAA overreached in the first place?? Thus making the sanctions undeserved?? I hope you realize that they are doing this in hopes of ending the Corman lawsuit, which is tantalizingly close to having the NCAA release internal emails which will show what a gangster organization they really are. And I haven't even mentioned the Paterno estate lawsuit, which could reap hundreds of millions from the NCAA coffers. You may laugh in your sleeve about PSU's discomfiture, but the Phoenix is rising my friend, and the stink may end up on Emmert's doorstep.

[thaskalos]

Lift the sanctions, for heaven's sake. Poor Penn State has suffered enough.

[Robert Fischer]

They benefited from covering up BIG TIME.
Huge +

The punishment was turned out to be extremely minimal considering the losses that proper conduct would have incurred (assuming that punishments were immediately handed out at that time, and assuming that fans weren't in denial, and that sponsorships were in fact lost/severed during the heyday).


It shows that a revenue vehicle like PSU College Football is more important than the rules, even when the broken rules and conduct were egregious.

If you take it for "face value" it makes the system look disgusting, and it makes the backers look like sad sheep that fall for anything that media broadcast tells them.

But if you look at it with an understanding of the system, it should be about what you expected. I already know that rules are not absolute, especially with corporate interests, governments, or banks. I shouldn't feel ill-will toward the public - they are simply humans. And the school and the sponsors are simply moving with the flow of the system. This isn't a charity (i mean an actual charity, or a 'figurative' charity, not the stuff we call charity).

[tucker6]

Did PSU do wrong? Absolutely. The AD, police chief, and probably the president performed some coverup. My problem is with the Board of Trustees for the university and the NCAA/Emmert. They scapegoated an 80 year old coach who did exactly what the institutional rules required him to do. He reported the story from one of his assistant coaches to his boss and campus police about a former employee under the control of the AD. If any of us had done that, would we not consider the matter closed regarding our involvement? Where did Paterno perform a coverup? A single email found by Freeh without known subject or context where Paterno asks for more thought on next steps? Really?? We know that the AD and police guy did not do their jobs, and for that, PSU should be punished. Criminally and civilly!

Joe Paterno, after 56 years of exemplary service, was simply convenient flesh to throw at the wolves barking at the gates. PSU did not gain one ounce of competitive advantage by allowing a private citizen pervert to walk free. None. If you can explain why the NCAA took away victories from before the very first case of abuse showed up (well before PSU knew about it), I'd be happy to listen. That comes across as vindictive, and when the NCAA acknowledges someday that the entire meme against Paterno was false, you'll all be able see this as well. Every one of you should be asking to see the emails from the NCAA, because if the very risk of them seeing the light of day has the NCAA sputtering to give things back to PSU, what is in them must be very bad to Emmert and his gangster organization.

[Robert Goren]

Give me a break. Joe and everybody else at Penn St knew what was going on and looked the other way for the "good" of Penn St football. The price was at least 10 years of sexually abused kids. Shame on anybody who thinks Penn St should get anything back. If Penn St had done the right thing and fired the low life Paterno 10 years earlier like a decent place, they might not have won all those games. But they did not. Ten years too late the truth came out. Now the best we can do is take away their ill gotten wins. The idea of them getting them back is offensive on every level. As for the players who played there during that time, they should be allowed to lie on their resume on where they went to school.

[Robert Goren]

Did PSU do wrong? Absolutely. The AD, police chief, and probably the president performed some coverup. My problem is with the Board of Trustees for the university and the NCAA/Emmert. They scapegoated an 80 year old coach who did exactly what the institutional rules required him to do. He reported the story from one of his assistant coaches to his boss and campus police about a former employee under the control of the AD. If any of us had done that, would we not consider the matter closed regarding our involvement? Where did Paterno perform a coverup? A single email found by Freeh without known subject or context where Paterno asks for more thought on next steps? Really?? We know that the AD and police guy did not do their jobs, and for that, PSU should be punished. Criminally and civilly!

Joe Paterno, after 56 years of exemplary service, was simply convenient flesh to throw at the wolves barking at the gates. PSU did not gain one ounce of competitive advantage by allowing a private citizen pervert to walk free. None. If you can explain why the NCAA took away victories from before the very first case of abuse showed up (well before PSU knew about it), I'd be happy to listen. That comes across as vindictive, and when the NCAA acknowledges someday that the entire meme against Paterno was false, you'll all be able see this as well. Every one of you should be asking to see the emails from the NCAA, because if the very risk of them seeing the light of day has the NCAA sputtering to give things back to PSU, what is in them must be very bad to Emmert and his gangster organization.There is no doubt that Paterno knew long before anybody else. He made a choice. Now his legacy has to live with. He was the one who threw it all away. I hope he is having fun in Hell.

[tucker6]

Give me a break. Joe and everybody else at Penn St knew what was going on and looked the other way for the "good" of Penn St football. The price was at least 10 years of sexually abused kids. Shame on anybody who thinks Penn St should get anything back. If Penn St had done the right thing and fired the low life Paterno 10 years earlier like a decent place, they might not have won all those games. But they did not. Ten years too late the truth came out. Now the best we can do is take away their ill gotten wins. The idea of them getting them back is offensive on every level. As for the players who played there during that time, they should be allowed to lie on their resume on where they went to school.
Glad to see you have all the answers despite your obvious lack of accurate information.

[tucker6]

There is no doubt that Paterno knew long before anybody else. He made a choice. Now his legacy has to live with. He was the one who threw it all away. I hope he is having fun in Hell.
No doubt? Care to give ANY facts to support your position?

[wiffleball whizz]

Give me a break. Joe and everybody else at Penn St knew what was going on and looked the other way for the "good" of Penn St football. The price was at least 10 years of sexually abused kids. Shame on anybody who thinks Penn St should get anything back. If Penn St had done the right thing and fired the low life Paterno 10 years earlier like a decent place, they might not have won all those games. But they did not. Ten years too late the truth came out. Now the best we can do is take away their ill gotten wins. The idea of them getting them back is offensive on every level. As for the players who played there during that time, they should be allowed to lie on their resume on where they went to school.

Couldn't say it any better myself, what went on there was a absolute disgrace

[cj]

No doubt? Care to give ANY facts to support your position?

Is PA now a court of law?

Common sense is allowed here.

[delayjf]

Give me a break. Joe and everybody else at Penn St knew what was going on and looked the other way for the "good" of Penn St football.

I don't believe that - I too would like to know what evidence exists that substantiates that Paterno knew of the abuse.

[zico20]

Joe Paterno is now again the wins leader. He had all the wins restored. Just announced.

[Robert Goren]

No doubt? Care to give ANY facts to support your position?Go back and look at any of the news stories from a few years ago. Obviously you are a Penn St football fan and are in denial. Sorry your hero had feet of clay, but that is the way life is sometimes. Get over it and find a new hero. But as far I am concerned Penn St should have gotten the permanent death penalty. As far as I am concerned again, anybody who stood by and watched happen is as guilty as the doer. The highest officials at Penn St over look what was going on for the good of football. The only to stop that from happening again to punish severely what they were protecting.

[tucker6]

Looks like the NCAA caved again. Paterno now winningest coach in history. The NCAA is doing exactly what someone does when the evidence backs them up, right Bobby?

They first reduced the penalties

Then they eliminated the penalties

Then they allowed PSU to go to bowl games two years early

Then they said that PSU could keep the $60M and spend it however they wished

Then they returned all of PSU's and Paterno's victories

5 year probation removed

The NCAA invalidated the consent decree that led to EVERY sanction against PSU. In other words, it was a Gilda Radnor "never mind" moment!!!

The only thing left for the NCAA to do is pay punitive damages for soiling PSU's and Paterno's reputations and say they are sorry for the inappropriate hassling of a member institution and fine human being. Don't worry, that is what the Paterno estate lawsuit will provide. The family just issued a statement saying that they will slay the beast known as the NCAA once and for all. When this is all said and done, this will be a complete vindication of Paterno and complete repudiation of the NCAA and the stories/myths they promoted for three years. The truth shall set you free.

[tucker6]

You keep reading bedtime stories Bobby. I'll stick to nonfiction.

[Robert Fischer]

Go back and look at any of the news stories from a few years ago. Obviously you are a Penn St football fan and are in denial. Sorry your hero had feet of clay, but that is the way life is sometimes. Get over it and find a new hero. But as far I am concerned Penn St should have gotten the permanent death penalty. As far as I am concerned again, anybody who stood by and watched happen is as guilty as the doer. The highest officials at Penn St over look what was going on for the good of football. The only to stop that from happening again to punish severely what they were protecting.

Paterno always had that great defense. Linebacker U.
They had such a successful, powerful program there.

When things like this happen, everyone agrees that it's horrible, but it's also a rare time when we get to see reality.

Money and Power are protected to begin with, and they also get to use the media.

[thaskalos]

You keep reading bedtime stories Bobby. I'll stick to nonfiction.
Why don't they reinstate the school president and the athletic director...since no cover-up ever took place?

[tucker6]

Why don't they reinstate the school president and the athletic director...since no cover-up ever took place?
That's all ya got Gus? Nothing about how bad the NCAA looks every time they give back something taken? You're better than this. Let go of your hate.

[thaskalos]

That's all ya got Gus? Nothing about how bad the NCAA looks every time they give back something taken? You're better than this. Let go of your hate.
I am normally not a hateful person...but cases like these are where I draw the line. Sandusky, and those who conspired to cover up his heinous crimes, deserve all the hate that people could muster...and JoPa got off easy by dying, as far as I am concerned...even if he rightfully died in shame. If there is any justice in this world...then he should be frying in hell right about now.

[MutuelClerk]

Olbermann nailed it.

[cj]

Joe Paterno is now again the wins leader. He had all the wins restored. Just announced.

That is just grand, sure all the victim's of Sandusky's sex crimes are going to get together and party like it is 1999.

[Stillriledup]

Olbermann nailed it.

Olbermann on Penn State.

qSBVO6rU57A

[tucker6]

I am normally not a hateful person...but cases like these are where I draw the line. Sandusky, and those who conspired to cover up his heinous crimes, deserve all the hate that people could muster...and JoPa got off easy by dying, as far as I am concerned...even if he rightfully died in shame. If there is any justice in this world...then he should be frying in hell right about now.
so in other words, the truth doesn't really matter to you as long as you feel good in the end?

[tucker6]

Olbermann nailed it.
Olbermann has been irrelevant for many years now. And still is.

[tucker6]

That is just grand, sure all the victim's of Sandusky's sex crimes are going to get together and party like it is 1999.
Paterno and the football program had nothing to do with Sandusky and his crime. He was well into retirement when these crimes were committed. The fact that the NCAA is reversing course is testament to the error they made. But I hope everyone on here feels good when your head hits the pillow tonight that you stopped pedophilia by harming those who had no involvement in the crime. :rolleyes:

Sanctimonious is a word that comes to mind...

[thaskalos]

so in other words, the truth doesn't really matter to you as long as you feel good in the end?

Didn't Mike McQueary testify that he walked into the Penn St. locker rooms in 2002, and witnessed Sandusky raping a 10-year old boy in the showers? Didn't McQueary also state that he told coach Paterno of this incident...and that he also described the incident in graphic detail to Tim Curley and Gary Shultz? Didn't "JoPa" tell McQueary that..."you did what you had to do...it is my job now to figure out what we have to do next"?

What exactly did Mr Paterno decide to do next, Tucker? Allow Sandusky to remain on school grounds so he could continue his atrocities until his arrest in 2011? You spent some time rooming with Paterno's kid in college...and that means you are "the authority" on the Sandusky sex crimes? Give us a break...

[zico20]

Bobby Bowden, who is now #2 on the wins list, took the classy and high route by saying Paterno deserved to have the wins reinstated. Bowden has said he was always self-conscious about being #1 in wins and is happy for Joe.

I have always thought of Bowden as a classy guy and this reaffirms my belief in that. Some coaches may have been pissed over this, but he genuinely accepts being #2. Good for Bobby!

[MutuelClerk]

Let Joe Pa have his wins. When most people hear his name the first thing they think of is Sandusky and not his precious wins. To me it just means he put wins above little kids. You the man Joe Pa. Congrats to you and all your supporters. Winning is everything. You have certainly proven that.

[MutuelClerk]

He's so fine our 409......

[Robert Fischer]

qSBVO6rU57Athis is like religion or politics

it's impossible to convince a Penn State supporter that PSU chose power and money and damage-control over justice.

That PSU exploited the "faith" of the fans and used the media.

That the sponsors went along with it.

That kids continued to be groomed and exploited for years after Paterno was told to his face of an explicit non-deniable act.

That the total amount of revenue gained by the damage-control strategy was a huge profit.

That the reduction and rescinding of the penalties suggests corruption and design, rather than innocence.


I can't even convince someone that a horse is better than another horse, and i'm Bobby F'ing Fischer. It's pointless to debate the penn state stuff where emotions and opinions are loyal to a legendary figure.

A penn state fan isn't a child molester. They love their team. They love the icon that Joe Paterno was broadcast as. They agree with the story that Paterno was wrongly blamed for something he had no knowlege of, and that he was unfairly punished for the evil actions of Sandusky.
Penn State fans are good people. You see a lot of trolls on the internet making obnoxious comments about Penn State fans and saying all this disrespectful, gross stuff. It just shows a lack of character. Joe Paterno was a great coach and overall he was a pretty great man and a legendary figure. He was a hero for his community.

[thaskalos]

this is like religion or politics

it's impossible to convince a Penn State supporter that PSU chose power and money and damage-control over justice.

That PSU exploited the "faith" of the fans and used the media.

That the sponsors went along with it.

That kids continued to be groomed and exploited for years after Paterno was told to his face of an explicit non-deniable act.

That the total amount of revenue gained by the damage-control strategy was a huge profit.

That the reduction and rescinding of the penalties suggests corruption and design, rather than innocence.


I can't even convince someone that a horse is better than another horse, and i'm Bobby F'ing Fischer. It's pointless to debate the penn state stuff where emotions and opinions are loyal to a legendary figure.

A penn state fan isn't a child molester. They love their team. They love the icon that Joe Paterno was broadcast as. They agree with the story that Paterno was wrongly blamed for something he had no knowlege of, and that he was unfairly punished for the evil actions of Sandusky.
Penn State fans are good people. You see a lot of trolls on the internet making obnoxious comments about Penn State fans and saying all this disrespectful, gross stuff. It just shows a lack of character. Joe Paterno was a great coach and overall he was a pretty great man and a legendary figure. He was a hero for his community.

Great coaches are made on the field of play...but "great men" are asked to prove their mettle OFF the field, as well. And Paterno failed miserably in that regard.

[Robert Fischer]

Great coaches are made on the field of play...but "great men" are asked to prove their mettle OFF the field, as well. And Paterno failed miserably in that regard.

He certainly did. By most standards Paterno will be judged as a man who ultimately failed miserably in spite of an otherwise amazing life.

However, I don't think that those supporting Penn State accept that.
They do not believe that Paterno and co. chose to handle a creepy child molester "in-house" rather than upset the gravy train. Penn State was getting millions for corporations to associate with Penn State's image. Nike alone was investing somewhere near the equivalent of $10million per year.

That cash-flow continued for years and years, after Paterno was allegedly told to his face of Sandusky having sex with a boy.

That's probably the biggest misconception that the average non-biased fan has regarding the coverup. They don't understand the sums of money involved, and how much PSU 'won' by covering up the truth for as long as they could (even before the punishments were rescinded, it was a huge 'win').

And that cash-flow continues today.

for perspective, even with Penn State's brand having been completely tarnished to all but the most faithful:

as of 1/2014 =
Their coach earns 1.3 Million per year salary
+2.2 more Million for TV and Radio obligations.
+500,000 per season from Nike.
= 4 MIllion a year for their current coach

The football Program also gets an estimated $4Millon/year total from Nike at this point.