12 killed in Paris.

[DJofSD]

http://news.sky.com/story/1403662/gunmen-hunted-after-12-killed-at-paris-magazine

The religion of peace claims more lives.

Twelve people have been shot dead at the headquarters of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris, say police.

Two masked gunmen are reported to have stormed the offices of the controversial publication, which has previously been attacked over its portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.

[Robert Goren]

Radical Islam declared war on the West about 25 years ago, but we have not yet decided to fight back.

[DJofSD]

Radical Islam declared war on the West about 25 years ago, but we have not yet decided to fight back.
Actually, it started much earlier than that.

One small example comes from a book by Simon Winchester, "Krakatora." In brief, he documents the uprising of radical Islam which occurred following the eruption of the volcano. Both the book and that wrinkle are very engaging.

[rastajenk]

That's an odd connection. I would never have put that together.

[DJofSD]

There's a bit more to it. Basically, the Dutch were operating like a bunch of SOBs, so, there was already lingering resentments. The eruption and subsequent hardship which ensued were catalysts for the uprising.

True to his training and interest, geology factors in all of Winchester's writings in one way or another.

[rastajenk]

Back to the current event, were there any licensed concealed-carriers nearby to assist the police? Apparently not.

[MONEY]

Radical Islam declared war on the West about 25 years ago, but we have not yet decided to fight back.

25 years?

"Benjamin Franklin hated giving money to Islamic pirates. The majority of early American tax revenues were used to pay-off Islamic pirates, who demanded that Americans be subservient to Muslim pirates. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson finally got fed up with paying the 20% shake-down ‘tax’ Muslim pirates levied on US ships, and Benjamin Franklin and a band of patriots (meeting in the Tun Tavern in Philadelphia!) founded the US Marines to protect the US from the Islamic pirates."

http://specialguests.com/guests/viewnews.cgi?id=EkAlAVFkplxbQltejD&style=Full%20Article

[classhandicapper]

I have a great idea.

Why don't we just follow Europe's idealistic notions on immigration and the left's idealistic notions on immigration, religion, profiling, and people in general and invite millions more of them to immigrate to the US legally and illegally?

[DJofSD]

I have a great idea.

Why don't we just follow Europe's idealistic notions on immigration and the left's idealistic notions on immigration, religion, profiling, and people in general and invite millions more of them to immigrate to the US legally and illegally?
Sure, why not? I mean, we live in an enlightened age where we all love one another and live in toleration, right? No need to be mindful of what history teaches.

You can do that if you have a pen and a phone -- go for it.

[tucker6]

We should be one with the world community as Pelosi and Obama desire, and be more tolerant of opposing views (or bombs as the case may be). :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Back to the current event, were there any licensed concealed-carriers nearby to assist the police? Apparently not.

not sure what to make of that comment.


They killed these people over a cartoon. This isn't the first time.

Tell me they aren't Nazi's ...........tick tock

[Tom]

Guess Mohamed is polarizing.

[PhantomOnTour]

Here in heavily French influenced Cajun country we actually get TV Monde 5 from France in our cable package.
I can understand French sporadically (so I couldn't understand everything they were saying) but their coverage seemed very low key and almost workman-like.
They also returned to their regularly scheduled programming after about an hour of covering the attack....here in America we stay on with it 24-7.

[Tom]

CNN stays on 24-365!

[rastajenk]

not sure what to make of that comment.
They could have used some help. (http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/unarmed-paris-police-retreated-from-terrorist-gunmen-video/)

[Clocker]

From Baghdad Bob in 2012:

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday criticized the “judgment” of a French satirical magazine for publishing cartoons that are critical of the Islamist political movement, amid the routine threat of attacks by Islamists during President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign.

“We are aware that a French magazine published cartoons featuring a figure resembling the prophet Muhammad, and obviously we have questions about the judgment of publishing something like this,” Carney told reporters during a midday press briefing at the White House.

“We know these images will be deeply offensive to many and have the potential be be inflammatory,” Carney said in a prepared statement.


http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/19/white-house-slams-french-cartoon-amid-election-time-threats-from-islamists/

From the new and improved Baghdad Bob today:

White House press secretary Josh Earnest refrained from calling the attack on a French magazine "terrorism" in an interview this morning on CNN.

The CNN host asked, "Josh, when you talk about countering the message, you keep using the word violence. I mean, this is an act of terrorism, that's what the president of France called it -- an act of terrorism. You're referring to ISIS and other bad actors, it doesn't really matter who it is at the end of the day. You know you're fighting a very large group of people of somewhat similar concern. Do you see this as an act of terrorism, and is this something that has to be condemned on that level?"

"Based on what we know right now it does seem that's what we're confronting here. And this is an act of violence that we certainly do condemn, and if based on this investigation it turns out to be an act of terrorism, then we would condemn that in the strongest possible terms, too," said Earnest.

"I mean, look, this is again based on the very preliminary information that we have, this isn't just an attack as you point out, Chris, on the people of France and on innocent civilians. This is an attack on some of the basic values that we hold dear here in this country and basic values of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and the free press that is also held dear by our allies in France. So this is something we take seriously and that we condemn, like I said, in the strongest possible terms."



http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-unsure-whether-murderous-rampage-france-terrorism_823285.html#

[boxcar]

From Baghdad Bob in 2012:



http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/19/white-house-slams-french-cartoon-amid-election-time-threats-from-islamists/

From the new and improved Baghdad Bob today:



http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-unsure-whether-murderous-rampage-france-terrorism_823285.html#

It was merely an inflammatory act caused by the stupidity of the French. The French are totally responsible for what they brought upon their own heads.

[PhantomOnTour]

The good people if Islam (please stand up, wherever you are!) had better find a way to deal with their own radicals & terrorists, or the world will deal with them...and hopefully in a manner that eradicates this behavior for a long time to come.

[DJofSD]

Here in heavily French influenced Cajun country we actually get TV Monde 5 from France in our cable package.
I can understand French sporadically (so I couldn't understand everything they were saying) but their coverage seemed very low key and almost workman-like.
They also returned to their regularly scheduled programming after about an hour of covering the attack....here in America we stay on with it 24-7.
I get that on cable from the local UC campus.

Given the time frame of the attack, I expect to see coverage on Thursday's broadcast.

[TJDave]

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday criticized the “judgment” of a French satirical magazine for publishing cartoons that are critical of the Islamist political movement, amid the routine threat of attacks by Islamists during President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign.

“We are aware that a French magazine published cartoons featuring a figure resembling the prophet Muhammad, and obviously we have questions about the judgment of publishing something like this,” Carney told reporters during a midday press briefing at the White House.

“We know these images will be deeply offensive to many and have the potential be be inflammatory,” Carney said in a prepared statement.


100% correct. You don't repeatedly poke a dog with a stick and expect him not to bite.

[DJofSD]

100% correct. You don't repeatedly poke a dog with a stick and expect him not to bite.
I am deeply offended by your analogy of terrorists as dogs.

[JustRalph]

They could have used some help. (http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/unarmed-paris-police-retreated-from-terrorist-gunmen-video/)

You have to be kidding me? In this day and age a cop being allowed to "choose whether he wants to be armed" has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in a long time.

Thanks for the link :ThmbUp:

[TJDave]

I am deeply offended by your analogy of terrorists as dogs.

Bite me. ;)

[DJofSD]

Bite me. ;)
Oh! Oh! I think I'm offended again! :)

[PhantomOnTour]

Interesting to note that the magazine who's staff was attacked (Charlie Hedbo) also pokes fun at Jews & Christians and about everything & everyone under the sun...

Notice how "radical" Jews and Christians didn't attack and kill people who run this magazine?

[Tom]

I am deeply offended by your analogy of terrorists as dogs.

It is offensive to dogs.

[Clocker]

100% correct. You don't repeatedly poke a dog with a stick and expect him not to bite.

So we should voluntarily surrender our freedom of speech, and let the feral dogs run wild?

[Tom]

Interesting to note that the magazine who's staff was attacked (Charlie Hedbo) also pokes fun at Jews & Christians and about everything & everyone under the sun...

Notice how "radical" Jews and Christians didn't attack and kill people who run this magazine?

Funny how civilization affects some groups.

[Tom]

So we should voluntarily surrender our freedom of speech, and let the feral dogs run wild?

We should get larger and sharper sticks.

[Clocker]

It was merely an inflammatory act caused by the stupidity of the French.

Exercise of freedom of speech is a stupid, inflammatory act?

[badcompany]

100% correct. You don't repeatedly poke a dog with a stick and expect him not to bite.


Yeah, we need to change the laws, here, and make it a capital offense to make fun of someone :cool:

[DJofSD]

Yeah, we need to change the laws, here, and make it a capital offense to make fun of someone :cool:
Ya, satire died with the founding fathers.

[PhantomOnTour]

Sarcasm folks...I think some are missing the meaning of a few posts by Boxcar and some others.

[TJDave]

So we should voluntarily surrender our freedom of speech, and let the feral dogs run wild?

Dogs do not understand the concept of free speech. This attack was perfectly within their nature.

[Clocker]

Dogs do not understand the concept of free speech. This attack was perfectly within their nature.

Perhaps France might consider passing and enforcing a leash law then.

[OntheRail]

100% correct. You don't repeatedly poke a dog with a stick and expect him not to bite.


And once a rabid dog bites... you put it down. You don't let it run around infecting others.

[classhandicapper]

"White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday criticized the “judgment” of a French satirical magazine for publishing cartoons that are critical of the Islamist political movement, amid the routine threat of attacks by Islamists during President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign.

“We are aware that a French magazine published cartoons featuring a figure resembling the prophet Muhammad, and obviously we have questions about the judgment of publishing something like this,” Carney told reporters during a midday press briefing at the White House.

“We know these images will be deeply offensive to many and have the potential be be inflammatory,” Carney said in a prepared statement."


This is political correctness taken to an even greater extreme.

Carney and this white house value not being offensive over truth, humor, and many of the most highly valued freedoms associated with democracy. Why doesn't he just bow down and convert?

[Clocker]

And once a rabid dog bites... you put it down. You don't let it run around infecting others.

Tough to do if you don't let your animal control officers use nets or tranquilizers. And if you do nothing to prevent the increase of feral or rabid dogs to begin with.

[Tom]

Ya, satire died with the founding fathers.
That Franklin, what a hoot!
The whoopie cushion on Cornwallis' saddle, stealing the front seat out of Washington's row boat....too funny!

[Clocker]

Carney and this white house value not being offensive over truth, humor, and many of the most highly valued freedoms associated with democracy. Why doesn't he just bow down and convert?

Carney was just the puppet on the stage. The puppet master was pulling his strings, and the master policy is not to offend anyone in the world.

[Tom]

Dogs do not understand the concept of free speech. This attack was perfectly within their nature.

They need to be put on leashes, then.
If that is their nature, they should not be allowed to mix with civilized people.

[Clocker]

Here is some even scarier news about the whole thing:

French President Francois Hollande branded the attack an act of terrorism and claimed that several other potential terror attacks had been thwarted “in recent weeks.” Hollande added that the publication had been threatened in the past and was already under police protection and surveillance.

[classhandicapper]

Here is some even scarier news about the whole thing:

The French made their bed. Let's just hope he US is not even dumber given that we have the advantage of being able to observe other countries.

[Clocker]

The French made their bed. Let's just hope he US is not even dumber given that we have the advantage of being able to observe other countries.

There is certainly no evidence that the policies of this administration are getting smarter. France is the future we are moving toward. Lax immigration policies, multiculturalism, reluctance to enforce laws against minorities, refusal to profile criminal behavior, refusal to accept reality that reflects badly on some classes, and on and on.

[LottaKash]

I read somewhere, not sure where, that the muslims in Paris have their own community, with their own police and fire depts., where those normal Parisian-Dept's are not welcome in "their space".....I have heard that that even have their own "Sharia-Law" courts for those communities....

[Tom]

The French made their bed. Let's just hope he US is not even dumber given that we have the advantage of being able to observe other countries.

We are.

[Tom]

I read somewhere, not sure where, that the muslims in Paris have their own community, with their own police and fire depts., where those normal Parisian-Dept's are not welcome in "their space".....I have heard that that even have their own "Sharia-Law" courts for those communities....

They have that in Britain.
Muslims do not immigrate, they colonize.
Those to stupid to stop them will suffer the Islamic menace.

What we should is flood the internet with Mohamed cartoons, in poor taste, and sign them OBama, Pelosi, Reid.....Allah gives you lemons, make lemonade.

[DJofSD]

http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-30712925

[woodtoo]

http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-30712925

Thanks, these cartoons are awesome. :ThmbUp:

People who blame cartoons for violence are fools.

[TJDave]

People who blame cartoons for violence are fools.

There is no doubt that those cartoons were to blame for the deaths of 12 people.

[rastajenk]

Meanwhile, our President is in full campaign mode addressing SRU's NFL conspiracy theory in Detroit City. :rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

There is no doubt that those cartoons were to blame for the deaths of 12 people.
Yes, just like when your sibling hits you then tells mom or dad, he made me do it!

[PaceAdvantage]

There is certainly no evidence that the policies of this administration are getting smarter. France is the future we are moving toward. Lax immigration policies, multiculturalism, reluctance to enforce laws against minorities, refusal to profile criminal behavior, refusal to accept reality that reflects badly on some classes, and on and on.Silly you. You're just a racist Republican who is running scared...you're marginalized...powerless...racist to the core...

You should be welcoming these fine peoples of the world into your home and into your heart. A citizen of the globe...all for one!!

Racist...

(JK of course - :lol: :lol: :lol: :bang: :bang: :bang: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek: :eek: :faint: :faint: :faint: )

[PaceAdvantage]

I read somewhere, not sure where, that the muslims in Paris have their own community, with their own police and fire depts., where those normal Parisian-Dept's are not welcome in "their space".....I have heard that that even have their own "Sharia-Law" courts for those communities....Sounds kind of like Orthodox Jews living in the Diaspora.

Except they don't go around murdering people as a matter of routine for even what most would consider the slightest of grievances.

[DJofSD]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2900259/Gunmen-kill-11-Charlie-Hebdo-attack.html

[Clocker]

Silly you. You're just a racist Republican who is running scared...you're marginalized...powerless...racist to the core...

You should be welcoming these fine peoples of the world into your home and into your heart. A citizen of the globe...all for one!!

Racist...



I used to be a racist. Now I am a polarizer. :p

[DJofSD]

Polarizer? Like is vortex?

What does catastrophic climate change have to do with it?

[Clocker]

The French police are saying that they know who the shooters were, and have apparently known about them for some time, as much as 10 years. But the fact that they are originally from Algeria, have been involved with Islamic militants, and go off to Syria from time to time was not enough for the French to actually do anything about them.

French police have reportedly identified the people involved in the shooting at the headquarters of the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo on Wednesday.


The shooting left 12 people dead including several members of the magazine's staff. Two gunmen and their driver remain at large.


According to Metro, by Wednesday evening local time, French law enforcement was aware of the names and birth dates of the alleged perpetrators. Metro reported one of the suspects is 34 years old, another is 32, and the third is 18.


The two older men are reportedly brothers, French citizens, and residents of Paris. Metro reported the younger man is a student whose nationality is unknown and has no fixed address.


Le Point reported that French police were focusing on two suspects whom the magazine described as "French-Algerian." According to Le Point the two men, 32 and 34 years old, returned to France from Syria last summer.


According to Le Point, in 2008, one of these men was tied to an Iraqi network in Paris that allegedly encouraged young men to join militants in Iraq. The magazine reported he was also arrested in 2005 as he attempted to travel to Damascus. In addition to the two men, Le Point said police were looking for a suspect who was born in 1996 and has no fixed address.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/report-police-identified-three-people-involved-in-paris-shooting-2015-1#ixzz3OAtWGPFP

[Clocker]

Polarizer? Like is vortex?

What does catastrophic climate change have to do with it?

It's is all tied together in the General Conspiracy Theory of the left. Global climate disruption, racism, income inequality, and the war on women are all caused by polarizers like Billy Graham.

[woodtoo]

There is no doubt that those cartoons were to blame for the deaths of 12 people.
Jihadists with guns killed people who wrote cartoons, and the fool jihadsts blame the cartoons

[JustRalph]

They are dancing in the streets in many places. Funny how we haven't seen any of that on TV?

[woodtoo]

I'm not surprises on BOTH counts.

[Clocker]

There is no doubt that those cartoons were to blame for the deaths of 12 people.

And all along I thought that religious fanaticism was to blame. Silly me.

I'm sure that the French, as enlightened as they are, have figured that out and will wisely resolve the problem by banning political cartoons.

[FantasticDan]

They are dancing in the streets in many places. Funny how we haven't seen any of that on TV?Can you specify the "many places"? And if that was happening, why wouldn't it be on TV?

[JustRalph]

The French have taken to the streets!

Funny, I thought they would do that when a 600 sq foot apartment went over 4k a month.

[Robert Goren]

I read somewhere, not sure where, that the muslims in Paris have their own community, with their own police and fire depts., where those normal Parisian-Dept's are not welcome in "their space".....I have heard that that even have their own "Sharia-Law" courts for those communities....You heard wrong! Where do you get that garbage? The French are far less tolerant of religion in the government arena, any religion, than we are. They are about as secular as governments get outside of a Communism state.

[MONEY]

You heard wrong! Where do you get that garbage? The French are far less tolerant of religion in the government arena, any religion, than we are. They are about as secular as governments get outside of a Communism state.

"Surveillance camera video shows white French being beaten up by predominantly Muslim immigrant gangs in the Metro and on the street.

Islamic immigrants consider it their territory and whites enter at their own risk. The French call them "sensitive urban zones" -- no-go zones where the police don't enter or don't enforce the law.

Some call them little Muslim caliphates inside the borders of France."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/April/Native-French-under-Attack-in-Muslim-Areas/

[rastajenk]

Can you specify the "many places"? And if that was happening, why wouldn't it be on TV?
Same reasoning why they don't show the cartoons, or distort them by pixellation?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/01/07/cnn-policy-charlie-hebdo-muhammad-cartoons-forbidden-piss-christ-okay/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/01/07/ap-censors-muhammad-cartoons-sells-piss-christ-photos/

https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/552814280471367680/photo/1

[JustRalph]

Can you specify the "many places"? And if that was happening, why wouldn't it be on TV?

Palestine and Yemen per radio interview I heard today. I imagine there are camera crews in Palestine, not sure about Yemen. I think that's a very unsafe place to be.

The guy being interviewed had a French accent. He also implied that the Muslim area of Paris was celebrating. Apparently they have been threatening this mag for a while. They got what they wanted

[JustRalph]

Dan, I forgot to answer your question.

The mainstream media in this country has a history of not showing us these scenes.

[Robert Goren]

The sad thing is we are more worried about some Mexican sneaking across the border than we are about some Islamic terrorist coming here by plane disguised as a political refuge. The West is at war with radicalism and it about time we started fighting it instead of getting involved in civil wars in Islamic countries. What make me sick is when our government finally makes one of its rare strikes against the terrorists like with strikes against the American born radical cleric in Yemen, the president gets criticized for it. I wish he would do more of that. We seem more interested in the plight of the Ukraine than we are the people who sent over two brothers to set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon. Talk about fighting the last war.
I am sorry that I rambled on a bit, but the way the last 3 presidents have acted gets me riled. So does comparing today terrorists to a bunch of 1800 pirates who were nominally Islamic. Today's terrorist are lot more than a bunch of thieves who sail ships and far bigger threat.

[Robert Goren]

"Surveillance camera video shows white French being beaten up by predominantly Muslim immigrant gangs in the Metro and on the street.

Islamic immigrants consider it their territory and whites enter at their own risk. The French call them "sensitive urban zones" -- no-go zones where the police don't enter or don't enforce the law.

Some call them little Muslim caliphates inside the borders of France."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/April/Native-French-under-Attack-in-Muslim-Areas/ They are a street gang who happened to be raised in an Islamic Neighborhood. They like the street gangs of Chicago. The Islamic terrorist is a different creature entirely. People who have such a limited knowledge of what Islamic terrorists are what is keeping the West from facing them head on as we should.

[woodtoo]

You are right Robert and they are right in your backyard waiting, growing,
recruiting in rural America and the penal system. They move to the poor inexpensive areas out of
prying eyes waiting, biding their time and they are now slowly attacking.

I suspect they will hide behind the race baiting movement using it as cover.

[rastajenk]

Maybe the gunmen have been nabbed (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/07/shooting-paris-satirical-magazine-charlie-hebdo#block-54ada427e4b01f977f448fda)

Or not. Breaking news is always tough to take at face value.

[JustRalph]

http://news.yahoo.com/young-mother-let-terrorists-into-charlie-hebdo-building-after-threat-against-daughter-190057740.html

Security door defeated

[horses4courses]

Sky News in Europe reporting:


Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 3m3 minutes ago
Reports: Youngest suspect in Paris terror attack has surrendered to police

[Tom]

There is no doubt that those cartoons were to blame for the deaths of 12 people.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[Tom]

Disturbing that many of the French police were unarmed, another direction THIS leftist country is trying to head towards.

Unarmed police - why bother?

[Steve 'StatMan']

"White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday criticized the “judgment” of a French satirical magazine for publishing cartoons that are critical of the Islamist political movement, amid the routine threat of attacks by Islamists during President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign.

“We are aware that a French magazine published cartoons featuring a figure resembling the prophet Muhammad, and obviously we have questions about the judgment of publishing something like this,” Carney told reporters during a midday press briefing at the White House.

“We know these images will be deeply offensive to many and have the potential be be inflammatory,” Carney said in a prepared statement."


This is political correctness taken to an even greater extreme.

Carney and this white house value not being offensive over truth, humor, and many of the most highly valued freedoms associated with democracy. Why doesn't he just bow down and convert?

How would anyone know what the prophet Muhammad looked like? So many followers want to, and sometimes actually do, kill anyone who makes a picture supposedly of him. Like pictures of Jesus, etc. it is all an artists concept. Although if all followers are expected to dress the same as in the religious code, not cut their beards, etc. then the ardent followers pretty much all look the same. You make a picture of one, you've made a picture of pretty much all of them, including likely what Muhammad might have looked like.

[Tom]

I thought he'd be taller.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Just imagine the carnage if that outfit had made fun of muhammed's momma!

[DJofSD]

Just imagine the carnage if that outfit had made fun of muhammed's momma!
Or his sister.

Where's Gabe when we need him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG6pE2ENdCo

[Clocker]

Disturbing that many of the French police were unarmed, another direction THIS leftist country is trying to head towards.

Unarmed police - why bother?

Two of those killed were French police officers. Because the newspaper office was fire bombed in 2011, and because of further threats, the office was under surveillance and police protection. The two officers "protecting" the office were not armed, and are now dead.

It was reported that 3 police officers responding to the attack (on bicycles) were also unarmed and retreated when they saw the weapons. It is not clear if this was before or after the wounded officer, a Muslim, was executed on the sidewalk.

That brings up a question. Carrying a weapon is optional. At least some French officers are Muslim. Do any police officers that are Muslims carry weapons?

[DJofSD]

There was a third police officer killed last night.

[Clocker]

The NY Times worries that the attack will worsen an already growing anti-immigrant attitude in Europe. :rolleyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/world/europe/paris-attack-reflects-a-dangerous-moment-for-europe.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

[DJofSD]

The NY Times worries that the attack will worsen an already growing anti-immigrant attitude in Europe. :rolleyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/world/europe/paris-attack-reflects-a-dangerous-moment-for-europe.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
Gee whiz, NYT is right on top of things -- ya think?

I wonder what they think of the banners for the demonstrations is Germany where there's a clear message: they believe the radicals are not any different than the Nazi's.

[Clocker]

Gee whiz, NYT is right on top of things -- ya think?

I wonder what they think of the banners for the demonstrations is Germany where there's a clear message: they believe the radicals are not any different than the Nazi's.

I think that there is a larger issue here that the NYT and others refuse to address. Part of the problem with an lot of immigration, particularly with Muslims, is the refusal to integrate into their new society. They act differently, then whine because they are treated differently. I am not talking about the way people dress or talk, but about acceptance of the rights of others that conflict with your personal views.

The Muslims that killed 12 people yesterday believed that they were morally right, and that Sharia law trumps the laws of the country that they lived in. While most Muslims don't go to the extremes of violence, many still believe themselves to be above the law in matters of faith. Any anti-immigration feelings based on secular issues like economics are going to be exacerbated by the refusal to assimilate into society.

[Tom]

Rush is talking about this right now.
You know what?
I don't care is there is a backlash against muslims.
I hope their is one!
Let's see how THEY react to it.

As long we worry about not offending them they will never take care of the problem.

SO, whatever goes around, comes around boys....hope to Hell you all enjoy that crap that finds you.

[Tom]

Gun control in action.
Take notes....

1. General population - 0 guns
2. Cops - 0 guns
3. Terrorists - lots o' guns

Real world stuff, not university discussion.

[RunForTheRoses]

Like pictures of Jesus, etc. it is all an artists concept. Although if all followers are expected to dress the same as in the religious code, not cut their beards, etc. then the ardent followers pretty much all look the same.

There are degrees of concept, I hope:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSuxUvz8zvNUjFGYHRXT6vsBnYh_khp VyjXJUcBMX5RO2S85wq

[horses4courses]

Gun control in action.
Take notes....

1. General population - 0 guns
2. Cops - 0 guns
3. Terrorists - lots o' guns

Real world stuff, not university discussion.

Your sentiments are, as always, consistent.
Your argument, as usual, is wrong.
FACT: That was the first notable terrorist attack in France since 1995.

Police in Europe are armed , but only in certain branches of their forces.
Regular beat cops, by and large, are not.
For good reason - guns are not as readily available to criminals as they
are on most street corners in the US. Law and order is safe and well
in Europe, contrary to what some US conservatives might think - the ones
who find it hard to venture past their own front doors, let alone travel
the world to actually find out the facts for themselves.

So, before you start imparting your vast knowledge of world affairs,
try getting your facts straight for once.

Here's an article that, while a little dated, deals in facts.
Not much has changed with regard to Muslim attacks in Europe
since then, except on Fox News and within small minds (one and the same).

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

Terrorism from Islamic extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria. Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that we are willing to sacrifice our ideals or civil rights for fear of it. Neither should we be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude. We have analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent.

It is only through sensationalism and fear mongering that the topic of Islamic terrorism is allowed to be used to demonize a religious community that happens to be a minority in the West. When confronted by such lunacy, we ought to respond with the facts and the truth.

[Clocker]

Police in Europe are armed , but only in certain branches of their forces.
Regular beat cops, by and large, are not.
For good reason - guns are not as readily available to criminals as they
are on most street corners in the US.

Given the unavailability of guns, you see no problem assigning unarmed officers to provide protection for an office that had been fire-bombed by terrorists, and that had received more terror threats recently?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by horses4courses


Police in Europe are armed , but only in certain branches of their forces.
Regular beat cops, by and large, are not.
For good reason - guns are not as readily available to criminals as they
are on most street corners in the US.

That plan worked out real well this week, didn't it.
You libs calling this some kind of a success?

Baghdad Bob sent this in......"That guy is freaking nuts!" :lol:

[JustRalph]

If I see one more cartoon of sad pencils I'm going to start shooting.

What the hell.........

They better start drawing missiles and soldiers.......

[davew]

The 2 suspects have hostages and are surrounded in Dammartin-En-Goele.

I am watching it on Sky News Live.

[horses4courses]

Given the unavailability of guns, you see no problem assigning unarmed officers to provide protection for an office that had been fire-bombed by terrorists, and that had received more terror threats recently?

Yourself and Tom seem to be the sort of well informed
Americans who think all the beer is warm over there, too. :rolleyes:

[Overlay]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/twin-hostage-dramas-as-paris-massacre-suspects-cornered/ar-AA7XeIh

"In the east of the French capital, a man already suspected of gunning down a policewoman on Thursday was thought to be behind a new attack on the kosher grocery store, with at least five hostages taken and at least one injured.

"The Porte de Vincennes area in eastern Paris was locked down with people told to stay indoors and police streaming into the streets.

"Police sources said there was a 'connection' between this gunman and the brothers accused of carrying out France's bloodiest massacre in half a century at the Charlie Hebdo offices."

[DJofSD]

Different reports on Twitter say 2 are dead.

[Tom]

Yourself and Tom seem to be the sort of well informed
Americans who think all the beer is warm over there, too. :rolleyes:

Can you translate?
My Stupid - English, English-Stupid dictionary can't find that one.:lol:

I can't speak for Clocker, but we had a situation where the only people armed were terrorists and this is what you libs want to happen here.

[Tom]

So, mohamed kills little children.
What a real man he is. *puke*

[Overlay]

Different reports on Twitter say 2 are dead.
Here's an update posted at the link to the story in my previous post:

"ALERT: At least two people were shot dead Friday during a hostage-taking drama at a Jewish supermarket in eastern Paris, where at least five people were being held, official sources told AFP.

"'There are at least two dead, maybe more, but for the moment we don't know,' one source said. French officials suspect a man responsible for the murder of a policewoman in the street of a southern Paris suburb on Thursday could be the hostage-taker."

[Overlay]

Further information:

"ALERT: Paris hostage-taker 'knows' one Charlie Hebdro killer: source

"The man holding hostages in a kosher grocery on Friday knew at least one of the suspects in the Charlie Hebdo massacre, a source told AFP.

"Amedy Coulibaly, 32, was seen with Charlie Hebdo suspect Cherif Kouachi in 2010 during an investigation into an attempted prison break in France. Coulibaly was convicted for his role and was well-known to anti-terrorist police."

[Clocker]

Can you translate?
My Stupid - English, English-Stupid dictionary can't find that one.:lol:



The translation is, "I don't have any facts, so I'll just throw out some irrelevant personal insults."

[horses4courses]

we had a situation where the only people armed were terrorists and this is what you libs want to happen here.

You think every living person should carry a firearm.
You are completely delusional.

[Tom]

You think every living person should carry a firearm.
You are completely delusional.

You are delusional if you think I said that.
Try to be in the right arguments - it helps continuity.
Random mumblings throw threads off.

[lamboguy]

the big cities in the United States are not immune to these types of attacks. if you have a gun you have a chance, if you only have a knife you are dead meat.

[DJofSD]

You are delusional if you think I said that.
Try to be in the right arguments - it helps continuity.
Random mumblings throw threads off.
Tom, don't fret too much, it is obvious he exists in a universe with only pairs of opposites. Such black or white thinking is the domain of the terrorists and radicals and which precludes understanding, empathy and tolerance.

[Clocker]

You are delusional if you think I said that.


You may not have said it, but what you did say means that in Wonderland.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

[JustRalph]

You think every living person should carry a firearm.
You are completely delusional.

Only those who want to.

[TJDave]

Done. Gunmen killed, hostages released.

[Clocker]

Done. Gunmen killed, hostages released.

Early report is that both hostage situations have been resolved, to the detriment of the formerly oxygen wasting terrorists.

It looks like hostages may have died in one case.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102323454

[DJofSD]

Done. Gunmen killed, hostages released.
A good jumping off point for bringing up today is national Law Enforcement Appreciation Day.

[TJDave]

A good jumping off point for bringing up today is national Law Enforcement Appreciation Day.

I doubt they'll be celebrating in NYC. The entire police force has the flu.

[Tom]

A perfect storm of everything the left believes in just played in France.
Open borders, gun laws, political correctness, police handcuffed......liberalism kills. It is not sustainable.

[Tom]

I doubt they'll be celebrating in NYC. The entire police force has the flu.\

NYC doesn't deserve the finest police force in the country.
They deserve to do with out them for a while....just so they can see what it would like with out them.

Not to worry, got a problem, call a racist.
Al and Bill are on standby.

[LottaKash]

Open borders, gun laws, political correctness, police handcuffed......liberalism kills. It is not sustainable.

Liberalism is a "mental disorder"...

If one wants to become a true liberal, he must check "reality" at the door....

With liberals, common ground or common sense, or right and wrong, take a backseat to this mental condition....

[DJofSD]

Liberalism is a "mental disorder"...

If one wants to become a true liberal, he must check "reality" at the door....

With liberals, common ground or common sense, or right and wrong, take a backseat to this mental condition....
I like to put it into the framework espoused by the Oracle in The Matrix: inability to see past the choices due to lack of understanding. In this case, human nature.

Yes, it would be wonderful if we could all be the better angels of ourselves but as we have seen in recent days, it just takes a few to fall short of that achievement to visit tragedy on the rest.

[DJofSD]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/paris-attacks-anonymous-vows-to-avenge-charlie-hebdo-shootings-with-cyberattacks-on-islamist-websites-9968813.html

Cyber warfare begun.

[horses4courses]

A perfect storm of everything the left believes in just played in France.
Open borders, gun laws, political correctness, police handcuffed......liberalism kills. It is not sustainable.

That's it....blame liberals for everything from massacres to the common cold.
The world carries on, in spite of conservatives.

[Tom]

Reality bites, huh?

[Greyfox]

The world carries on, in spite of conservatives.

For 12 people on Wednesday, the world did not carry on.

[JustRalph]

For 12 people on Wednesday, the world did not carry on.


Great post......... :ThmbUp:

[MutuelClerk]

Did they become hostage takers instead of terrorists because a woman is involved?

[MutuelClerk]

And how does this woman actually escape with all those cops around? Inspector Clouseau??

[JustRalph]

Now why didn't I think of that

[Clocker]

Now why didn't I think of that

Wouldn't it be easier just to shoot the guns out of their hands?



Like with a Barrett M82 .50 cal? :cool:

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B68YKoiCYAAiWSl.jpg:medium

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67Gp4kCMAE4GbS.jpg:medium

[classhandicapper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67Gp4kCMAE4GbS.jpg:medium

Wow, how did they get all 40 of them worldwide together for a photo like that?

[Clocker]

Wow, how did they get all 40 of them worldwide together for a photo like that?

It's not a big deal. They are all students at Cal Berkeley.

[JustRalph]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B68YKoiCYAAiWSl.jpg:medium

What the hell does this have to do with the thread?

[horses4courses]

What the hell does this have to do with the thread?

It applies from a number of different angles,
and the daily brainwashing on Fox News is tangible.

(1) The belief that liberal immigration policies are to blame
for the atrocities this week in Paris.

(2) The implication that those policies, added to a lack of
firearms among police, make the US much safer from
similar attacks.

While Fox News puts the US public on constant alert
from the threat of terrorism, it's our conservative backbone
that makes all the difference.

Yeah, right....... :rolleyes:

[Clocker]

It applies from a number of different angles,
and the daily brainwashing on Fox News is tangible.



Do you watch Fox enough to be able to personally document this brainwashing, or are you repeating hearsay without proof?

[Clocker]

What the hell does this have to do with the thread?

What the hell do any of his posts have to do with the actual content of the threads where he posts them? He just posts random propaganda when ever he comes across it, without regard to relevance. Like a little kid repeating big words he has heard, with out a clue as to meaning.

[horses4courses]

What the hell do any of his posts have to do with the actual content of the threads where he posts them? He just posts random propaganda when ever he comes across it, without regard to relevance. Like a little kid repeating big words he has heard, with out a clue as to meaning.

Getting to you, isn't it?

[Clocker]

Getting to you, isn't it?

Your nonsense? No, pointing out the lack of reason or thought is like hitting a punching bag or a tackling dummy to stay in practice for a real opponent.

[ArlJim78]

It applies from a number of different angles,
and the daily brainwashing on Fox News is tangible.

(1) The belief that liberal immigration policies are to blame
for the atrocities this week in Paris.

(2) The implication that those policies, added to a lack of
firearms among police, make the US much safer from
similar attacks.

While Fox News puts the US public on constant alert
from the threat of terrorism, it's our conservative backbone
that makes all the difference.

Yeah, right....... :rolleyes:
Fox must have a tremendous reach and powerful influence, because this has become the prevailing view around the world. Great Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Australia, etc, all of them have woken up and realized that unchecked immigration, multiculturalism, is a failure precisely because it leads to the kind of terror attacks we've seen in London, Sydney, Madrid, Paris, and New York. That in particular Muslims do not strive to assimilate, rather they are on a mission to conquer and to make other cultures submit to theirs. It's a cancer on the civilized world and the only solution is to kill it.

and sorry, the whole reason why we don't see attacks like Boko Haram massacring a town of 2000 people, or like the attack on the school in Peshawar that killed 140 children, is again precisely due to the fact we are stronger and better armed and protected than the people in those poor countries are. With that said we are vulnerable to attack because most of our leaders are still wedded to the idea that huge waves of immigrants, legal or otherwise, are a great idea.

In order to develop more coherent thoughts on these things you'll have to abandon your narrow-minded fixation on Fox News.

[horses4courses]

Fox must have a tremendous reach and powerful influence, because this has become the prevailing view around the world. Great Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Australia, etc, all of them have woken up and realized that unchecked immigration, multiculturalism, is a failure precisely because it leads to the kind of terror attacks we've seen in London, Sydney, Madrid, Paris, and New York. That in particular Muslims do not strive to assimilate, rather they are on a mission to conquer and to make other cultures submit to theirs. It's a cancer on the civilized world and the only solution is to kill it.

and sorry, the whole reason why we don't see attacks like Boko Haram massacring a town of 2000 people, or like the attack on the school in Peshawar that killed 140 children, is again precisely due to the fact we are stronger and better armed and protected than the people in those poor countries are. With that said we are vulnerable to attack because most of our leaders are still wedded to the idea that huge waves of immigrants, legal or otherwise, are a great idea.

In order to develop more coherent thoughts on these things you'll have to abandon your narrow-minded fixation on Fox News.

Answer me this:

If we had a Republican president, in addition to a GOP majority
in government, do you think that Muslims could possibly be
interned like the Japanese were during WWII?

[horses4courses]

Fox must have a tremendous reach and powerful influence, because this has become the prevailing view around the world. Great Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Australia, etc, all of them have woken up and realized that unchecked immigration, multiculturalism, is a failure precisely because it leads to the kind of terror attacks we've seen in London, Sydney, Madrid, Paris, and New York. That in particular Muslims do not strive to assimilate, rather they are on a mission to conquer and to make other cultures submit to theirs. It's a cancer on the civilized world and the only solution is to kill it.

and sorry, the whole reason why we don't see attacks like Boko Haram massacring a town of 2000 people, or like the attack on the school in Peshawar that killed 140 children, is again precisely due to the fact we are stronger and better armed and protected than the people in those poor countries are. With that said we are vulnerable to attack because most of our leaders are still wedded to the idea that huge waves of immigrants, legal or otherwise, are a great idea.

In order to develop more coherent thoughts on these things you'll have to abandon your narrow-minded fixation on Fox News.

People forget that the last significant
terrorist attack in France was in 1995.

[Clocker]

If we had a Republican president, in addition to a GOP majority
in government, do you think that Muslims could possibly be
interned like the Japanese were during WWII?

It's only January and the competition for stupidest post of the year just went nuclear.

[horses4courses]

It's only January and the competition for stupidest post of the year just went nuclear.

So, you obviously think my question is nonsense,
and that there is no chance of this happening.
That's reassuring. :rolleyes:

Anyone else?

[ArlJim78]

Answer me this:

If we had a Republican president, in addition to a GOP majority
in government, do you think that Muslims could possibly be
interned like the Japanese were during WWII?
Where do you come up with this stuff? It's hypothetical and irrelevant.

I was remiss in not including Canada as one of the countries that has woken up. Their excellent PM Harper gets it. Tell me how the GOP and Fox News was able to infect his thinking.

SOwM9UT5_5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOwM9UT5_5E#t=31

[Tom]

Wow, how did they get all 40 of them worldwide together for a photo like that?
Photos-shopped 12 of them. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

For 12 people on Wednesday, the world did not carry on.

Allow me, H4C....."what difference does it make?

[Tom]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B68YKoiCYAAiWSl.jpg:medium

Totally classless.
The ad and you.

[Tom]

Getting to you, isn't it?

Much like a little kid whinning over and over, "Are there yet, are we there yet?
"

You, more than anyone else here, offers the least to any thread you infect.

[Tom]

It's only January and the competition for stupidest post of the year just went nuclear.

I say he just nailed down 2012 and 2013 as well.
What a totally STUPID post.
This guy better be under surveillance.

[Tom]

BTW, has anyone PM'ed H4C to let him know that the Japanese Internment was done by progressive democrats? :lol:

[DJofSD]

BTW, has anyone PM'ed H4C to let him know that the Japanese Internment was done by progressive democrats? :lol:
F. N. H4C is on my iggy list.

[Clocker]

Washington Post moonbat Eugene Robinson was a guest on MSNBC moonbat Andrea Mitchell's show. It's a wonder the intellectual vacuum didn't cause an implosion. Robinson said that if we ever had a terrorist attack here like the one in France, there would be a lot more innocent people killed, because the terrorists would have better access to guns here.

“Just to keep it in perspective,” Robinson told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell, “I don’t think we should imagine that the conditions and the threat are exactly the same in the United States as they are in France. They are different.”

“In fact, one thing that’s different here is that weapons are universally available and so it is actually a very good thing that the tensions are not exactly the same because we would expect to have a lot more of that sort of carnage.”


http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/09/washington-post-columnist-says-paris-style-terrorist-attack-in-u-s-would-be-worse-because-of-guns-video/

[DJofSD]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/arson-attack-hamburg-newspaper-printed-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-072635062.html

BERLIN (Reuters) - A Hamburg daily that reprinted satirical cartoons from French newspaper Charlie Hebdo was hit by arsonists at the weekend, raising security concerns in Germany on the eve of a planned mass rally against Islam in the city of Dresden.

[DJofSD]

Start at the bottom for chronological order. (https://twitter.com/markfrankel29/timelines/554316215582482432) It will take a few tries to get to the bottom of the browser's page where it starts.

[Tom]

3 million now marching in Paris.

Holder is there, Obama sent him.
Bad news, no looting going on, Obama doesn't get a new TV.

If they really want to send a message to Islam, today, march through every so-called No Go zone, carrying torches, and stop in front of every home and just look at it, then go to the next.

Tomorrow, issue a decree that NO GO zones are now illegal, that Sharia law is out right banned and anyone caught trying to practice it will be immediately banished from France, along with all of their family.

We drove the nazis from Paris, we can do the same today for the left over nazis.

[Clocker]

Oh good, the French are having a unity march with a bunch of people holding up "Je suis Charlie" signs. That will have the terrorists quaking in their boots.

And to go them one better, Obama is going to have a conference:

"On February 18, 2015, the White House will host a Summit on Countering Violent Extremism to highlight domestic and international efforts to prevent violent extremists and their supporters from radicalizing, recruiting, or inspiring individuals or groups in the United States and abroad to commit acts of violence, efforts made even more imperative in light of recent, tragic attacks in Ottawa, Sydney, and Paris," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said in a statement.



Are extremists better or worse than activists? But at least we have identified the root cause: radicalizing and inspiring people. Shouldn't be too hard to put an end to that shite.

[horses4courses]

It's always amazed me how many words overlap between English and French.
Here's just one of the many examples:

imbecile (ˈɪmbɪsiːl)

Translations
noun

imbécile mf ⇒ I don't want to deal with these imbeciles any longer. Je ne veux plus avoir affaire avec ces imbéciles.

[woodtoo]

oui=we=wee?

[Clocker]

It's always amazed me how many words overlap between English and French.
Here's just one of the many examples:

I agree, both the French and the White House are imbecilic in their attempts to deal with the problem.

[Clocker]

3 million now marching in Paris.

Holder is there, Obama sent him.



Holder is there?

http://moonbattery.com/graphics/paris-antiterror-rally-leaders.jpg


Where Is Barack Obama?
King Abdallah of Jordan and the brother of the Emir of Qatar marched today alongside the German chancellor Angela Merkel and the Spanish, Italian, Ukrainian, Nigerian, Israeli, Palestinian and Malian leaders – more than 50 world leaders in all – in the two mile march from the Place de la République to the Place de la Nation in eastern Paris.


Noticeably missing is Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, Secretary of State John Kerry and Eric Holder.

AG Holder was sent to Paris for the march and rally but was not seen at the march.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/us-obama-administration-noticeably-absent-at-massive-paris-anti-terror-march/

[fast4522]

3 million now marching in Paris.

You can bet the CIA will be taking boatloads of pictures at that event.

[DJofSD]

Holder is there?

http://moonbattery.com/graphics/paris-antiterror-rally-leaders.jpg




http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/01/us-obama-administration-noticeably-absent-at-massive-paris-anti-terror-march/
Suppose to be there. Just look for the guy with his arms over his head chanting "Hands up! Don't shoot!"

[Clocker]

Some of the more cynical folks around are suggesting that the administration fears that a US presence there might offend some Islamic sensibilities. :rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

Some of the more cynical folks around are suggesting that the administration fears that a US presence there might offend some Islamic sensibilities. :rolleyes:
Wouldn't be surprised. PC rules!

[Clocker]

Wouldn't be surprised. PC rules!

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." -- Barack Obama.

[Greyfox]

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." -- Barack Obama.


Yes. He said that. But surely he wouldn't want those extremist Islamic savages to follow through and murder mockers.

oAwMpL7POyo

[woodtoo]

Heard he was looking for the funerals of the .....terrorists.

[DJofSD]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905678/America-snubs-historic-Paris-rally-Holder-skipped-early-Kerry-India-Obama-Biden-just-stayed-home-leave-no-U-S-presence-anti-terror-march-joined-global-leaders.html

Bad showing by our so called leaders.

[Tom]

AG Holder was sent to Paris for the march and rally but was not seen at the march.

He was busy scouting out the Best Buy stores, then he was selling gun to ISIS.

[Tom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905678/America-snubs-historic-Paris-rally-Holder-skipped-early-Kerry-India-Obama-Biden-just-stayed-home-leave-no-U-S-presence-anti-terror-march-joined-global-leaders.html

Bad showing by our so called leaders.

Bad showing?
The presence of any of this JV team from the states would have looked foolish among REAL world leaders, other than Joe - he at least can call on class when he needs to. The other three..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[LottaKash]

He was busy scouting out the Best Buy stores, then he was selling gun to ISIS.


And "swords", you must not forget the bloody swords... :eek:

[DeltaLover]

NYC: WE ARE CHARLIE


A-lWxERSDJQ

[DJofSD]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-11/us-officials-say-non-to-je-suis-charlie-rallies

The lack of senior U.S. government officials at free speech, anti-terrorism rallies in Paris and Washington Sunday left many wondering why President Barack Obama's administration would miss an opportunity to outwardly display solidarity with France, a country it supports in so many other ways, during its time of crisis.

CNN’s Jake Tapper noted that there were no senior U.S. officials at the Paris rally, which stood out due to appearances by dozens of world leaders including Germany’s Angela Merkel, Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu, the Palestinian Authority’s Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah. U.S. Ambassador Jane Hartley led the U.S. delegation.

Too bad the Statue of Liberty is so big, Obama could return it.

[Clocker]

I believe that the NY Daily News has been generally supportive of Obama. Looks like the bloom is off the rose.





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7HIMfsIAAAFLnf.jpg

[snickster]

I believe that the NY Daily News has been generally supportive of Obama. Looks like the bloom is off the rose.





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7HIMfsIAAAFLnf.jpg

Why should they show up. These men single handily defeated terrorism already a while back so it really does not exist and only a figment of Europeans imagination. Oh you don't believe me? Well they told me so so it must be true. lol.

[horses4courses]

Oh, come on.
Had any of them been there, you would be
chastising them for seeking a "photo op".
Not to mention the eternal waste of taxpayer money!

You can't have it both ways.....(not that it ever stops you from trying)

[woodtoo]

Oh, come on.
Had any of them been there, you would be
chastising them for seeking a "photo op".
Not to mention the eternal waste of taxpayer money!

You can't have it both ways.....(not that it ever stops you from trying)

Your a real a$$hat

[Tom]

So much for the myth that Obama would bring back respect for the USA.

[Clocker]

Why should they show up. These men single handily defeated terrorism already a while back so it really does not exist and only a figment of Europeans imagination. Oh you don't believe me? Well they told me so so it must be true. lol.

There is no terrorism, there is only man-caused disaster. The major cause in recent times were Al Qaeda, which was decimated, and ISIS, which was the junior varsity.

And we all lived happily ever after.

[DJofSD]

So much for the myth that Obama would bring back respect for the USA.
I guess it is time for World Apology Tour II.

[Clocker]

Oh, come on.
Had any of them been there, you would be
chastising them for seeking a "photo op".
Not to mention the eternal waste of taxpayer money!

How much of a waste of taxpayer money is it to send Holder to Paris and then not have him participate in the proceedings?

Grown-ups understand the need for participation in certain social ceremonies. Even individuals have to do it in everyday life. This is true even more so in international relations.

How much taxpayer money would it take to sent Holder to the march?

[horses4courses]

How much of a waste of taxpayer money is it to send Holder to Paris and then not have him participate in the proceedings?

Grown-ups understand the need for participation in certain social ceremonies. Even individuals have to do it in everyday life. This is true even more so in international relations.

How much taxpayer money would it take to sent Holder to the march?

I can't deny that it seems strange that Holder did not attend the march.
He was in Paris for an international security meeting already,
and there was little explanation as to why he had to return to DC.
The US ambassador to France, Jane Hartley, was there as our sole
representative, but I have to think that the White House could have
planned this better.

Worth an entire front page headline in a major NY paper,
implying that it's the root of an international incident?
Hardly.

A senior State Department official said that Secretary of State John Kerry could not attend the march in Paris because he was the main speaker at an event in India sponsored by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

In India, at the opening of the entrepreneurship and innovation summit in Gujarat, Mr. Kerry expressed his solidarity with the crowds in France. “We may all come from different walks of life, but we stand together this morning with the people of France as they march in tribute to the victims of last week’s murderous attack on the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo in Paris,” he said. “And we stand together not just in anger and outrage, but in solidarity and commitment to the cause of confronting extremism and in the cause that extremists fear so much and that has always united our countries – freedom.”

A White House official noted that Mr. Obama issued several public statements about the terrorist attacks, made a condolence trip to the French Embassy in Washington, and spoke on the phone with President François Hollande of France.

[Rookies]

I just don’t get why Muslims hate Charlie Brown so much,” Sarah Palin proclaimed,”It’s good wholesome, family entertainment. I would think religious conservatives would enjoy that kind of thing. “But I mean you just can’t win with these people. Every little thing you do offends them. First it was burning the Quran. Then it was that whole CIA ‘torture’ scandal Now it’s Snoopy, Lucy, Pigpen and the whole gang."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok... Snopes... Tommy... Ralph... Throw me a bone here! This is made up shit, right? :bang:

[Clocker]

Worth an entire front page headline in a major NY paper,
implying that it's the root of an international incident?
Hardly.

That decision is up to the newspaper. And that particular paper is a long time supporter of Obama and his policies.

[FantasticDan]

That decision is up to the newspaper. And that particular paper is a long time supporter of Obama and his policies.Except for when they endorsed Romney, of course. :p

[Greyfox]

Worth an entire front page headline in a major NY paper, implying that it's the root of an international incident?
Hardly.

No, the paper did not imply that was the cause of an international incident.

It simply pointed out that:
the absence of America's White House involvement showed a total misunderstanding of the importance of that incident vis-a-vis the world.

[Clocker]

Except for when they endorsed Romney, of course. :p


Some members of the media have enough integrity to admit to mistakes.

From the Daily News in 2008:

The need for a fresh start in America has grown markedly in the two years of this presidential campaign, and became imperative as the crippled financial system punishes workers, families and retirees in the country.

The U.S. is in want of leadership that repairs a damaged economy, restores faith in government as an engine for the common good and returns competence to the White House after the spectacular failures of the Bush administration.

Barack Obama holds the greater promise of accomplishing the mission than does John McCain. The Daily News endorses the 47-year-old Democrat, the first black American to win a major party nomination, for President.



http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/daily-news-endorses-obama-president-promise-renew-america-home-article-1.300473

[Robert Goren]

Marching is not going to stop the terrorists. It just gives them another target. Marches only give the marchers a reason to feel good about themselves.

[JustRalph]

I can't bitch about him not going. I'm sure the secret service said no.

He could have bombed the shit out of Yemen during the March. That would have been a much more effective statement.

[lamboguy]

I can't bitch about him not going. I'm sure the secret service said no.

He could have bombed the shit out of Yemen during the March. That would have been a much more effective statement.bombing Yemen would have made a better statement, wiping them out would have been better.

you know something, i have no idea why they don't start wiping places of the map. they are telling us that they want to take our heads off and laugh. if you get them they will be smiling right next to Allah

[rastajenk]

A White House official noted that Mr. Obama issued several public statements about the terrorist attacks, made a condolence trip to the French Embassy in Washington, and spoke on the phone with President François Hollande of France. Short version, he couldn't be bothered. Big sports weekend, you know.

[reckless]

I believe that the NY Daily News has been generally supportive of Obama. Looks like the bloom is off the rose.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7HIMfsIAAAFLnf.jpg

Stay-at-home Obama, replete with mommy pants, again shows the world his pro-Islamic view: he supports terrorism.

Obama's non-support for outrage and world solidarity at these murders proves yet again his lack of standing as a world leader, not to mention what we've known here for years: he's just a clown and a coward.

[DJofSD]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/01/12/obama-awol-in-paris-message-to-america-allies-is-dont-care/

Sunday, President Obama morally abdicated his place as the leader of the free world.

Are the knives coming out?

[Greyfox]

Marching is not going to stop the terrorists. It just gives them another target. Marches only give the marchers a reason to feel good about themselves.

If a million Muslims marched in protest, maybe it would give the terrorists pause to reflect on their actions and misguided belief systems.

[Clocker]

Oops, never mind.

It turns out that Obama did eventually show up at the march. Probably just a little late.


http://3-ps.googleusercontent.com/xk/3g7-M_6SHODJZQ7Hi-qpGp3vAZ/www.powerlineblog.com/i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2015/01/Empty-Chair-in-Paris-copy.jpg,qresize=580,P2C386.pagespeed.ce.rcTdk0ddA YGjR3-Q9z3P.jpg

[davew]

There is roughly 2 billion Islam followers in the world and roughly 2 billion Christianity followers. 0bama does not want to offend the Muslims and imply that Jihad is bad.

[Clocker]

I can't bitch about him not going. I'm sure the secret service said no.


Holder could have gone. Holder meet with the top leaders just before the march in a anti-terrorism summit. After that meeting, the rest of them went to the march and Holder went to the local NBC studio to tape an interview.

Attorney General Eric Holder did go to Paris — but only for an anti-terrorism summit convened by Hollande ahead of the unity rally. Holder left Hollande and the others sometime after the group exited the Elysee Palace. Around the time other world leaders and dignitaries boarded buses to get to the front of the march, Holder was taping an interview for “Meet the Press,” NBC confirmed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/eric-holder-u-s-dignitaries-no-shows-paris-unity-rally-article-1.2073821

[DJofSD]

Hell, Kerry could have gone -- he's in India right now.

[horses4courses]

Hell, Kerry could have gone -- he's in India right now.

Sure, he could have just jumped on one
of those 4,000 mile commuter flights. :rolleyes:

It goes down as a missed diplomatic opportunity, though.
Biden, or Holder, should have been at the march.

[Clocker]

It turns out that there was a solidarity march in Washington on Sunday. We did send one of our top people to that one.

Obama wasn’t far from the march in D.C. on Sunday that wended silently along six blocks from the Newseum to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial. Instead, he spent the chilly afternoon a few blocks away at the White House, with no public schedule, no outings.

Joe Biden was back home in Wilmington, Delaware. Neither they nor any high-level administration official attended either event.

France’s top diplomat in the U.S. tried, diplomatically, to make the best of it.
“Thank you to Victoria Nuland, assistant secretary at the Department of State, who has represented the U.S. Authorities at the demonstration in DC. A friend,” Ambassador Gérard Araud tweeted Sunday evening, as criticism of the administration mounted.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/obama-charlie-hebdo-events-no-show-114166.html#ixzz3OcpdPvgj

[reckless]

. . . . I'm sure the secret service said no.

I don't believe our mommy pants President would have been in any more danger going to Paris than those real world leaders who did.

Israeli P.M. Benjamin Netanyahu was present and he was in much more danger than anyone, including our cowardly President.

Shame on the USA, but not surprising.

[Clocker]

You know it's bad when Obama gets slapped by Andrea Mitchell.

Appearing on the “Today Show,” MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell criticized the president’s decision to skip the event, calling it “stunning” and “ham-handed.”

I wonder if Josh Earnest is going to call in sick today?

[reckless]

Hell, Kerry could have gone . . . .

What better way for the USA to do the right thing and act in solidarity with the free world than to have Secretary of State, John Kerry, speaking in French, denounce radical Islamic terrorism and the Paris murders?

At 6-feet-4, Kerry would have provided a symbolic and towering example of American leadership and greatness to the entire world.

But this never happened, resulting in yet another bad day for America thanks to this president and his administration.

[Tom]

Or he could have brought the ketchup for the French Fries at dinner.
Know your capabilities.

Kerry - a symbol of American leadership and greatness?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Je ne savais pas qu'ils pouvaient empiler que la haute!

[FantasticDan]

What, no faux outrage for the French? C'est étrange.. :rolleyes:

Reuters:

The fact Obama was not at the march appeared to gain little immediate traction in France on a day dedicated to unity. One French TV commentator said the president's visit would have been unthinkable given the level of security that accompanies him at home and abroad.

French news channels have prominently featured Obama's expressions of solidarity with France, as well as Kerry's remarks in French last week condemning the attacks.

[horses4courses]

What, no faux outrage for the French? C'est étrange.. :rolleyes:

Reuters:

Security cannot have been the issue, given that Netanyahu was there.
France, and Europe in general, are not questioning the low-key US
presence at the march. It's not all about America, after all.

That being said, we should have had a stronger representative there.
It's an opportunity lost, but nothing that damages ties with our allies.
The State Dept. should have realized the scale of this event, and
what it meant to the western world. They dropped the ball.

Personally, I think Joe Biden should have gone.
Too late now, though.

[Robert Goren]

The right is mad because the president did not go thus depriving them of a chance to bitch about the costs of the trip. :rolleyes:
Obama should have gone himself or at least sent Clinton & GWB. It is not surprising that he didn't though. He is not much on empty symbols. Not one terrorist attack will be stop by the marches in France. I wish it would, but it won't.

[classhandicapper]

If a million Muslims marched in protest, maybe it would give the terrorists pause to reflect on their actions and misguided belief systems.

It would probably be a lot tougher to find 1M Muslims to march against terrorism than 1B non Muslims to march for freedom.

[TJDave]

Security cannot have been the issue, given that Netanyahu was there.

Not true. Given there were infinite variables and millions of people security was a crapshoot. I believe ALL these high profile types were there despite strenuous objection from their security forces.

[Robert Goren]

If a million Muslims marched in protest, maybe it would give the terrorists pause to reflect on their actions and misguided belief systems. This has to be the dumbest post of 2015 so far. Islamic terrorists do not care what the rest of the Muslims think. They live in a world of their own in which they think they are doing God's work. No one is going to change their minds. I thought everyone realized that by now.

[DJofSD]

The right is mad because the president did not go thus depriving them of a chance to bitch about the costs of the trip. :rolleyes:
Obama should have gone himself or at least sent Clinton & GWB. It is not surprising that he didn't though. He is not much on empty symbols. Not one terrorist attack will be stop by the marches in France. I wish it would, but it won't.
How short sighted and fatalistic. What a great approach to things -- it won't make any difference, so, why even try. An attitude which any sports coach or military leader would have a field day tearing you a new one.

As often as the fellow travelers like to hold out the US is not exceptional, needs to work to build consensus, etc., there was a golden opportunity to join the group to demonstrate solidarity. It didn't have to be Obama, as others have said, Biden, or, Kerry or even as you posted, a former president, but some official representing the US would have shown a level of commitment. I guess maybe they didn't see the drone flying overhead.

[classhandicapper]

Why would the Obama administration show solidarity with the rest of the free world when they can't tell the difference between an activist and a terrorist, the president used to hang out with a terrorist, the president (no matter what his stated religion) appears sympathetic to Muslim extremist causes and thinks the US is the bad guy....

Obama's world view in not even consistent with what it has generally meant to be American. He shouldn't hold any office in the US, let alone the presidency. He should be on some college campus somewhere marching with a sign complaining about things he's too young and idealistic to know anything about.

[DJofSD]

Why would the Obama administration show solidarity with the rest of the free world when they can't tell the difference between an activist and a terrorist, the president used to hang out with a terrorist, the president (no matter what his stated religion) appears sympathetic to Muslim extremist causes and thinks the US is the bad guy....

Obama's world view in not even consistent with what it has generally meant to be American.
Simple explanation is Obama and the current regime could not associate themselves with any group which was calling the tragedy an act of terrorism. Using the "T" word (as either a noun or a verb) is a big bozo no-no.

[Greyfox]

This has to be the dumbest post of 2015 so far. Islamic terrorists do not care what the rest of the Muslims think. They live in a world of their own in which they think they are doing God's work. No one is going to change their minds. I thought everyone realized that by now.

Mine was the second dumbest post so far on this thread.
Your post that marching wouldn't help was the dumbest.
Do you think that the Martin Luther King marches, including the one to Selma,
didn't raise consciousness?
Do you think Obama's absence on Sunday had no impact on world opinions of America?
If you think that way, nothing that I can say will help you.

[DJofSD]

Mine was the second dumbest post so far on this thread.
Your post that marching wouldn't help was the dumbest.
Do you think that the Martin Luther King marches, including the one to Selma,
didn't raise consciousness?
Do you think Obama's absence on Sunday had no impact on world opinions of America?
If you think that way, nothing that I can say will help you.
He hasn't seen the movie yet.

[FantasticDan]

Not true. Given there were infinite variables and millions of people security was a crapshoot. I believe ALL these high profile types were there despite strenuous objection from their security forces.I've read stories about how securing the inaugural parade route every four years is a "monumental task" that gives the secret service fits. That's like a walk in the park compared to the variables TJDave mentions.

[Tom]

He is not much on empty symbols.

That is all he is! :lol:
An empty suit sitting in an empty chair making empty promises and draining the treasury empty.

[Tom]

We are supposed to be the leaders of the free world, leading the war on terror. We are supposed to be the one the world looks up to.

But then we elected Obama, who leans more towards the terrorist than the free world.

I am sure the world understands Obama is not speaking for the American people with his cowardice and nonchalance.

I am sure they know in two years, we will be back in the game, once the girly man is out of office.

[TJDave]

once the girly man is out of office.

To be replaced by the manly girl. ;)

[reckless]

To be replaced by the manly girl. ;)

Dave, who do you have in mind referencing a 'manly girl'?

[DJofSD]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-12/kerry-to-visit-france-to-show-solidarity-after-terrorist-attacks.html?hootPostID=40b573b7eceee1567c752bb9bd 87478d

[TJDave]

Dave, who do you have in mind referencing a 'manly girl'?

I think anyone the democrats put up would probably fit that description. :lol:

[reckless]

I think anyone the democrats put up would probably fit that description. :lol:

Hillary definitely fits your description, Dave, but Lizzie Warren is no paint-faced Indian warrior that's for sure. :)

[Robert Goren]

Mine was the second dumbest post so far on this thread.
Your post that marching wouldn't help was the dumbest.
Do you think that the Martin Luther King marches, including the one to Selma,
didn't raise consciousness?
Do you think Obama's absence on Sunday had no impact on world opinions of America?
If you think that way, nothing that I can say will help you.The MLK marches had little if any real effect. What had an effect was the supreme court reversed some earlier decisions and the presidents at the time had the guts to send in the National Guard to enforce them. Something I might add that conservatives in both parties opposed those actions and the liberals in both parties supported.
At this point, nothing the president is going to do is going to change what Europe or for that matter the terrorists, think of us. Empty gestures that the conservatives love never change anything. Concrete actions do. That means find the terrorists first even if we have to read some people's email etc. So far, we have not had the stomach for that yet. I guess it will take few more terrorist attacks to get to that point. Just dropping a whole lot of bombs in Iraq will not do the trick.

[DJofSD]

I just figured it out.

The reason why Obama didn't want to go to Paris is b/c he couldn't use his teleprompter while walking down the street.

[Tom]

I just figured it out.

The reason why Obama didn't want to go to Paris is b/c he couldn't use his teleprompter while walking down the street.

Technology answers......

[FantasticDan]

But then we elected Obama, who leans more towards the terrorist than the free world.Great point, Tom. Maybe the terrorists are planning their own parade, and Obama will participate in that one. They can carry him in a drone-throne..

MA5Pjw_cZn0

[woodtoo]

That means find the terrorists first even if we have to read some people's email etc. So far, we have not had the stomach for that yet. I guess it will take few more terrorist attacks to get to that point. Just dropping a whole lot of bombs in Iraq will not do the trick.


C'mon you don't think they intercept mail? Been doing that in Canada since 911. You would be shocked I tell you, shocked at what goes down.

[Greyfox]

The MLK marches had little if any real effect. What had an effect was the supreme court reversed some earlier decisions and the presidents at the time had the guts to send in the National Guard to enforce them..

Yeah, sure, and the thinking of the Supreme Court and the President wasn't influenced in any way by the marches?
You're a riot Alice. :lol:

[woodtoo]

Can someone post the new Charlie Hebdo cover.thanx

Love the turban :D

[Rookies]

We're beginning to round them up, before they leave for their "education" classes:

"The RCMP Integrated National Security Enforcement Team (INSET) on Monday arrested and charged Suliman Mohamed, 21, from Ottawa with participating in the activity of a terrorist group and conspiracy to participate in a terrorist activity. RCMP say this arrest is linked to the arrests of Ottawa twin brothers Ashton and Carlos Larmond, both 24, made on Friday.

Ashton Carleton Larmond was charged with facilitating terrorist activity, participation in the activity of a terrorist group, and instructing to carry out activity for a terrorist group. His brother Carlos Larmond was arrested Friday at the Pierre-Elliott Trudeau International Airport in Montreal as he was preparing to leave the country. The RCMP allege he was preparing to fly overseas to take part in terrorist activity abroad." The Toronto Sun

Personally, all of the Western democracies will need to revamp their legislation to add the charge of Treason to the above, plus the immediate revocation of Citizenship.

If those camps in Yemen, etc. are going to accept "your addled, your delusional, your brainwashed,", tough luck for those who choose to go! They become persona non grata- immediately. If caught before leaving- immediate arrest.

[Robert Goren]

Yeah, sure, and the thinking of the Supreme Court and the President wasn't influenced in any way by the marches?
You're a riot Alice. :lol: You can always count on a conservative to get his historical dates mixed up. The key supreme court decision was before the marches. Brown vrs the board of education happened in 1954. Dr. King was still in school in 1954. Ike in his first term enforced it back then. That was the start of the civil rights movement. No marches influenced that decision because the marches had not started yet. It was that decision that probably got people marching.
I was in several anti-war marches in the 1960s, and they did not the Vietnam War. It did not end until 7 years after I marched. The anti war marches and rallies was a lot larger than the civil right marches.

[classhandicapper]

We're beginning to round them up, before they leave for their "education" classes:

"The RCMP Integrated National Security Enforcement Team (INSET) on Monday arrested and charged Suliman Mohamed, 21, from Ottawa with participating in the activity of a terrorist group and conspiracy to participate in a terrorist activity. RCMP say this arrest is linked to the arrests of Ottawa twin brothers Ashton and Carlos Larmond, both 24, made on Friday.

Ashton Carleton Larmond was charged with facilitating terrorist activity, participation in the activity of a terrorist group, and instructing to carry out activity for a terrorist group. His brother Carlos Larmond was arrested Friday at the Pierre-Elliott Trudeau International Airport in Montreal as he was preparing to leave the country. The RCMP allege he was preparing to fly overseas to take part in terrorist activity abroad." The Toronto Sun

Personally, all of the Western democracies will need to revamp their legislation to add the charge of Treason to the above, plus the immediate revocation of Citizenship.

If those camps in Yemen, etc. are going to accept "your addled, your delusional, your brainwashed,", tough luck for those who choose to go! They become persona non grata- immediately. If caught before leaving- immediate arrest.

Good step in the right direction.

Once it is known you are actively involved with a terrorist organization your citizenship should not protect you from charges. We need to round these guys up, deport them if they are illegal, and jail them if they are citizens. If they are known to have gone overseas to engage in any such activity (citizen or not) they should be arrested when they return.

[Greyfox]

I was in several anti-war marches in the 1960s, and they did not stop the Vietnam War. It did not end until 7 years after I marched..

Wrong again.
Those marches didn't stop in the 60's and had a profound effect on Richard Nixon's decisions in the 70's.

[RunForTheRoses]

http://qz.com/324805/china-has-just-banned-the-burqa-in-its-biggest-muslim-city/

[DJofSD]

France did that already. Didn't help.

[Rookies]

Good step in the right direction.

Once it is known you are actively involved with a terrorist organization your citizenship should not protect you from charges. We need to round these guys up, deport them if they are illegal, and jail them if they are citizens. If they are known to have gone overseas to engage in any such activity (citizen or not) they should be arrested when they return.

The terrorist events around Paris last week have introduced seminal changes in the way Western democracies will handle these issues in the future and the tactics they take to stop them cold. Laws will be revised. Oh yes, indeed they will.

Here is the conundrum. If the laws are so upgraded to include totalitarian responses and significant intrusion on freedoms, then the very bad guys win. For example, would Americans allow police to freely enter their homes for random searches, as is done in Singapore? ( I believe)

Hardly.

On the other side of the continuum, how about the issue of free speech? Should cartoon caricatures ripping the Prophet Mohammed be an acceptable form of commentary? Would you say the same if if it was Julius Streicher drawing hook nose Jews who are depicted as poisoning Aryans in Germany of the 1930s?

What there will be (and the Western democracies will cherry pick according to their local circumstances) are laws relating to increased surveillance, detection, enforcement and penalties for all persons engaged in the pursuit of or the acts of Terrorism and Treason. The individuals participating will be found and charged, either at home or upon their return - including loss of citizenship. ANY family members, friends or associates who are found (through legal wiretap, etc. ) to have aided, abetted and covered for such terrorists, will be tried for criminal terrorist conspiracy. Any places or persons found to be advocating such terrorism will also be under surveillance.

The Western world is on the road to dramatic change and very careful thought needs to be brought to bear on the proper balance of rights, freedoms and liberties.

[Valuist]

The terrorist events around Paris last week have introduced seminal changes in the way Western democracies will handle these issues in the future and the tactics they take to stop them cold. Laws will be revised. Oh yes, indeed they will.

Here is the conundrum. If the laws are so upgraded to include totalitarian responses and significant intrusion on freedoms, then the very bad guys win. For example, would Americans allow police to freely enter their homes for random searches, as is done in Singapore? ( I believe)

Hardly.

On the other side of the continuum, how about the issue of free speech? Should cartoon caricatures ripping the Prophet Mohammed be an acceptable form of commentary? Would you say the same if if it was Julius Streicher drawing hook nose Jews who are depicted as poisoning Aryans in Germany of the 1930s?

What there will be (and the Western democracies will cherry pick according to their local circumstances) are laws relating to increased surveillance, detection, enforcement and penalties for all persons engaged in the pursuit of or the acts of Terrorism and Treason. The individuals participating will be found and charged, either at home or upon their return - including loss of citizenship. ANY family members, friends or associates who are found (through legal wiretap, etc. ) to have aided, abetted and covered for such terrorists, will be tried for criminal terrorist conspiracy. Any places or persons found to be advocating such terrorism will also be under surveillance.

The Western world is on the road to dramatic change and very careful thought needs to be brought to bear on the proper balance of rights, freedoms and liberties.

Terrorism was terrible before the events and it still is. Nothing about that has changed. And kudos to the Charlie Hebdoe staff for not backing down and putting a picture of the "prophet" on the cover of the newest issue.

[DJofSD]

http://www.france24.com/en/20150113-charlie-hebdo-publishes-prophet-cartoon-cover/

The French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo will publish a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed along with the words "All is forgiven" Wednesday on the cover of its first issue since Islamist militants killed 12 people at its central Paris offices.

In a further show of defiance, the fearless magazine announced it would print three million copies – not the usual 60,000 – when it reappears on newsstands on Wednesday.

[Clocker]

According to Politico, the White House staff never asked Obama about going to the march in Paris. Apparently the White House staff is running the country and makes decisions like this without discussion with the president.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/paris-march-charlie-hebdo-barack-obama-114206.html

And according to the Secret Service, they were never asked about the possibility of such a trip, or what the security concerns might be.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/secret-service-obama-never-asked-us-about-possible-unity-rally-trip

In short, there was zero consideration on the part of the president or the rest of the administration about the march.

[DJofSD]

I guess he couldn't get a kitchen pass.

[Greyfox]

According to Politico, the White House staff never asked Obama about going to the march in Paris. Apparently the White House staff is running the country and makes decisions like this without discussion with the president.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/paris-march-charlie-hebdo-barack-obama-114206.html

And according to the Secret Service, they were never asked about the possibility of such a trip, or what the security concerns might be.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/secret-service-obama-never-asked-us-about-possible-unity-rally-trip

In short, there was zero consideration on the part of the president or the rest of the administration about the march.

Do you think that just maybe he puts his religion ahead of his nation in terms of loyalties?

[DJofSD]

Do you think that just maybe he puts his religion ahead of his nation in terms of loyalties?
Is that a problem or do we need to review history?

[Clocker]

Do you think that just maybe he puts his religion ahead of his nation in terms of loyalties?

If you are implying that Obama is Muslim, the answer is definitely no.

Obama's religion is clearly the Black Liberation Theology preached to him by Rev. Jeremiah Wright for some 20 years in Chicago. Major ideas in that teaching include the religious concept of collective salvation and a very strong secular concept of "economic justice" in this world. The latter logically leads to redistribution of wealth and the opposition to America as a super power. Wright saw America as a imperialist nation. Obama is committed to making America one among equals in the world community.

[classhandicapper]

The terrorist events around Paris last week have introduced seminal changes in the way Western democracies will handle these issues in the future and the tactics they take to stop them cold. Laws will be revised. Oh yes, indeed they will.

Here is the conundrum. If the laws are so upgraded to include totalitarian responses and significant intrusion on freedoms, then the very bad guys win. For example, would Americans allow police to freely enter their homes for random searches, as is done in Singapore? ( I believe)

Hardly.

On the other side of the continuum, how about the issue of free speech? Should cartoon caricatures ripping the Prophet Mohammed be an acceptable form of commentary? Would you say the same if if it was Julius Streicher drawing hook nose Jews who are depicted as poisoning Aryans in Germany of the 1930s?

What there will be (and the Western democracies will cherry pick according to their local circumstances) are laws relating to increased surveillance, detection, enforcement and penalties for all persons engaged in the pursuit of or the acts of Terrorism and Treason. The individuals participating will be found and charged, either at home or upon their return - including loss of citizenship. ANY family members, friends or associates who are found (through legal wiretap, etc. ) to have aided, abetted and covered for such terrorists, will be tried for criminal terrorist conspiracy. Any places or persons found to be advocating such terrorism will also be under surveillance.

The Western world is on the road to dramatic change and very careful thought needs to be brought to bear on the proper balance of rights, freedoms and liberties.

I understand and agree with you. It's very difficult.

Personally, while I might find some cartoons (speech) in poor taste or offensive, I think just about anything goes. I don't think we want laws defining what is acceptable and what is not because they will never be applied consistently. It will be more of the same political correctness that makes me want to puke. From what I gather, a LOT of what this French magazine published would be offensive to me also. That's OK. I may think they suck, but I think they should have a right to publish without serious repercussions and certainly without violence. I think you win these battles by winning hearts and minds, not with punishment.

On the rest I am very comfortable. I don't like it all, but I like the alternative less. We have to understand that we are at war with Islamic extremists. During a war, the rules have to change. That's reality.

[Greyfox]

If you are implying that Obama is Muslim, the answer is definitely no.

Obama's religion is clearly the Black Liberation Theology preached to him by Rev. Jeremiah Wright for some 20 years in Chicago. Major ideas in that teaching include the religious concept of collective salvation and a very strong secular concept of "economic justice" in this world. The latter logically leads to redistribution of wealth and the opposition to America as a super power. Wright saw America as a imperialist nation. Obama is committed to making America one among equals in the world community.

Thank you. :ThmbUp:
Whether he's Muslim or not, I do not know for sure.
He has a strong Muslim heritage.
Also his refusal to use the words Islam and Terrorist together in the same sentence, and numerous youtube postings of him speaking about his Muslim heritage, raise suspicions in my mind that he may be a Muslim.
Certainly his decisions reflect an anti-Imperialist attitude that could fit with the theology of Reverend Wright's stated ideas.
The French press has reported that very very few Muslims attended that million person Unity march.
That Obama and his administration were not represented only adds another brick to my suspicions.

[Tom]

tout est pardonne' - all is forgiven

A powerful phrase, and one that is rarely used


"Allez-y, faire mon jour."

Not used nearly enough.

[Clocker]

Thank you. :ThmbUp:
Whether he's Muslim or not, I do not know for sure.
He has a strong Muslim heritage.

If you can catch any videos or transcripts of his occasional college commencement speeches, he often refers to "collective salvation". He never uses this term in political speeches.

This concept is purely religious, and it is very important in Black Liberation Theology. I can't imagine anything close to it in Islam. Just a guess, but the Muslim heritage is probably more cultural than religious.

[horses4courses]

"Allez-y, faire mon jour."

Not used nearly enough.

You've obviously watched too many
Clint movies- with French subtitles.

[DJofSD]

I don't think we want laws defining what is acceptable and what is not because they will never be applied consistently.

But we already do. Libel, slander and not being able to yell 'fire' in a theater when there is not one are all covered. Oh, and, inciting a riot.

[ArlJim78]

the first post attack edition of Charlie Hebdo again features Mohammed on the cover. A normal run would be 60,000 copies.
This run started at 3 million, sold out, and now has been bumped to 5 million.

[classhandicapper]

But we already do. Libel, slander and not being able to yell 'fire' in a theater when there is not one are all covered. Oh, and, inciting a riot.

I can understand those because you are potentially doing physical or financial harm to others.

What I am talking about is expressing opinions, making jokes etc... that run contrary to the politics of the day. The generally accepted views at any given time can be incorrect. They also change.

It's not my problem if someone is sensitive. I can choose to not say something that might offend others even if I believe it to be true, but that's a choice. Someone else can decide to say it anyway because he values the truth over the feelings of others and believes it be the truth. He should be free to say what he thinks without repercussions.