Free Charts?

[word13]

Does anyone know of a way to automate the collection of the charts on USA Trotting? I'm searching for a program that will log onto the website and capture the chart information for all of the major harness tracks.

Looking for an automated process. Trackmaster is just too expensive

Thanks

Any other thoughts would be appreciated as well

[Ray2000]

Any other thoughts would be appreciated as well

I can't help you with the auto-download for USTA charts but here's a suggestion.

Depending on what kind of info you want in your data base, it's possible to build a chart-like database system from the track programs as sold by TrackMaster. You're probably buying TrackMaster programs anyway, so you'll need to buy the data format version (which gives you free downloads of their Platinum PPS in pdf format for the same card), and if you have any VBA knowledge you can set up an automated data base builder.

You will need to extract the pplines from "runlinhr.dbf" (each line being a "Record")
and add fields for current horse stats from horsehr.dbf by matching horse number in those two dbf files for that day)
and maybe add fields for race info from racehr.dbf
and have a method for removing duplicate records
and a method to match past performance line date with appropriate horse and race data for that date.

and then collect mutuel prices from The Racing Channel archive.
...(much better than the lousy USTA Mutuels, anyway, all prices are $2 based at TRC).

The drawback is you may be missing some pplines for any particular race but the result can still be very useful anyway.

Good Luck with it.....

[wilderness]

Does anyone know of a way to automate the collection of the charts on USA Trotting? I'm searching for a program that will log onto the website and capture the chart information for all of the major harness tracks.

Looking for an automated process. Trackmaster is just too expensive

Thanks

Any other thoughts would be appreciated as well

That's a violation of the USTA's website Terms of Service/USE, and in addition a violation of their copyright. They will chase you to the ends of the earth ;) or at least their attorney's will serve a cease and detest (as they have in the past).

[David Siegel]

As those that know me know, I am happy to respond to this forum in nearly all cases since participants tend to be sincere about things. At $200 per month, or $2000 per year for every chart, I understand how that can be viewed as expensive, especially for a small bettor. That said, that includes roughly 500,000 starts across North America and includes enhanced ratings (speed, class and pace - one for each 1/4 mile segment of the race). Serious (high dollar) gamblers really cannot build algorithms without these.

As far as trying to build charts from alternative sources, like our own programs, this can be done, and is perfectly legal to do, so long as you use them yourselves. There are issues though. First, the database will be incomplete for sure as horses move around and in some cases, race at tracks for which we don't produce programs (because the tracks don't send them in). This would be the case with the majority of fair races. However, we do produce a chart for EVERY race. In addition, occasionally data changes due to a racing board decision or corrections. Unlimited charts will have a better chance of being more up to date that old PP lines, though this is a pretty minor distinction.

With regard to screen scraping charts from the USTA, of course this may be a violation of their licensing agreement with you as a user, but legalities aside, those charts are only up for about 7 days so you will never see any updates to them, they don't have the ratings I described above, and for sure you would need to scrape from both the USTA and Standardbred Canada site as horses do move between countries enough to cause you a handicapping issue if you don't have the complete set. So you would have to write two programs to scrape and then combine - again, legalities aside.

I cannot really debate the pricing here. We price where we think things are fair but also profitable for us and the USTA. We also compare pricing to other racing offerings in the Thoroughbred market as a sanity check. I know every consumer wants, at the extreme, everything for free. Why not? But as a producer, we have a balancing act, and of course a bottom line to manage, so many factors go into the pricing. Electronic charts are something generally big data crunchers want, and generally wager pretty large sums, so the costs are a small factor in their equation. And we enough such clients that I think we are priced pretty close to 'correct', but I realize that is really in the eye of the beholder.

I know that does not make them cheaper, but I hope the explanation may help guide you on how approach the data mining you are contemplating.

[Stillriledup]

David, any theories on why USTA only lets you go back 1 week in charts? I would love to be able to stick the name of a horse in the search and see months or years of actual charts, doesn't seem too unreasonable.

[OhioFan]

I agree with the original poster and suspect TM would be able to substantially increase their revenue by charging less for charts or including them with their other data plans (maybe even as an option to the customer at added cost). I could not be happier with my TB data provider, unlimited PP data and charts for $89 per month and I'm sure there is a good level of margin in it for them. I would love to buy charts from TM, but despite the points David laid out, I also find it just too expensive and that's the bottom line for me-- the voice of just one customer.

[wilderness]

David, any theories on why USTA only lets you go back 1 week in charts? I would love to be able to stick the name of a horse in the search and see months or years of actual charts, doesn't seem too unreasonable.

Pretty sure you may do so in their PATHWAY access, however there are fees, and ADW required.

[Stillriledup]

Pretty sure you may do so in their PATHWAY access, however there are fees, and ADW required.

There's no ADW required with equibase and t bred charts, i can go back till the 1990s and see that info. Harness racing still in dark ages.

[wilderness]

There's no ADW required with equibase and t bred charts, i can go back till the 1990s and see that info. Harness racing still in dark ages.

opinions are like. . . ., we each have one ;)

The KY Derby website is beyond comprehension! They offer a database with links for each field going back to the first Derby in 1875.
Harness Racing and/or Standardbreds offers nothing comparable.

In order to comprehend the data difference between T-Breds and S-breds, one must understand that in harness racing, John Hankins Wallace (1822-1903) created the original registry (i. e., Wallace's Trotting Register) and/or method of compensation/ownership for data. Each step along the data-way somebody has been required to compensate somebody else. That same compensation assures the longevity of the breed registry.

In late-1938 "the Friends of Harness Racing" gathered to create the United States Trotting Association, thereby combing four former governing bodies into one-body. Under the former former governing bodies things were a mess. The same names were used by multiple horses and a horses name could be changed at virtually any point-in-time. If there was suspension under one-governing body, the person or horse simply raced under one of the other jurisdictions.

Despite what most people believe of the USTA, they offer stability and longevity to the breed. With that said, the creature of harness racing has changed since 1939 and the USTA (nor is, what ever similar body in T-Breds) able to over come the legal hold that individual states have over legal issues. That later is why simulcasting and the take-out is such a mess for all-breeds.

[David Siegel]

I have divided this response into sections based on additional comments above:

1) OHIO FAN said "I could not be happier with my TB data provider, unlimited PP data and charts for $89 per month". I am interested to know who this provider is so I can look at their pricing and compare apples to apples. Thanks in advance.

2) STILLRILED UP said "David, any theories on why USTA only lets you go back 1 week in charts? I would love to be able to stick the name of a horse in the search and see months or years of actual charts, doesn't seem too unreasonable."

I will address several issues here. First, it is true that fans can access PDF charts at Equibase for the TBs far back in history. That said, it is meant for visual consumption, not electronic processing. Equibase SELLS electronic charts (for data analysis) as does TrackMaster for TB. USTA DOES have charts going far back in time, but for sale via Pathway. Other posters had it wrong about ADW accounts needed (if I interpreted ADW correctly). One can pay for this data (visual only as its in html) with a credit card.

This IS one difference between the TBs and Standardbreds. And the difference is in the way the organizations fund themselves. USTA relies on only a few key revenue lines, and Pathways is one of them. They publish this income in one of their Hoofbeats editions, so it is public. They would be quite challenged to replace that revenue at this point (my opinion only). That said, Equibases lines have been drawn effectively for FANS (all charts available in PDF format along with lots of other data free) versus HANDICAPPERS, where Equibase charges for data "packaged" for handicappers. And when I say Equibase, I mean Equibase and all of their Value Added Resellers like TrackMaster, DRF, BRIS and others.

By the way, TrackMaster does offer much free data on drivers, trainers and horses via StatsMaster which is part of the TrackMaster Players Club:

http://www.trackmaster.com/free/

I hope that addresses some of the items mentioned here and we are always willing to listen, investigate and analyze. So please, keep the comments coming.

[mrroyboy]

Thank you David. Well said. I am still hopeing you lower the price on Harness Pro. :jump:

[wilderness]

Other posters had it wrong about ADW accounts needed (if I interpreted ADW correctly). One can pay for this data (visual only as its in html) with a credit card.

David,
I've held a PATHWAY account from its inception, although I rarely use it.
Unless the USTA has changed their methods, a person could not acquire a single PATWAY item via a CC, rather requirement was the establishing of an account with ADW (Advanced Deposits) prior to purchasing items.

[wilderness]

With PATHWAY you may: sign-on by using a credit card and have access to data in just moments; receive volume discounts or credits of 20 to 75 percent; receive $10 credit towards the viewing of reports when signing-up for a prepaid account the first time (current USTA members only are eligible for credit); have the option of being billed by mail (available only to current USTA members, a one-time account set-up fee applies, account inaccessible until set-up fee is received and processed); view a summary of your current account status; and since you pay "by the report," you'll be paying for only the information you want!

from their page.

http://pathway.ustrotting.com/subscription.cfm

[OhioFan]

Hi David, I am an HDW subscriber and use JCapper Silver. Have been with them for almost 4 years straight now and used one of their more expensive plans off and on before that. It looks like their most expensive data plans are $139 per month ($1668 / year). As you know, the cheapest TM harness data plan plus result charts would be $2599.90 per year which is 1.5 times as much as the most expensive HDW offerings and almost 2.5 times as much as my current plan. I'm not trying to pick on TrackMaster or the USTA at all and am very satisfied with my current harness data plan, but I really would be more than willing to pay good money for the charts in addition to my current TM subscription-- just not ~$2,000 more per year. That's a missed opportunity for both TM and the USTA, and if there are many other potential customers that feel the same way, that can add up pretty quick.

Thanks for the link-- I think Harness StatsMaster is a very nice free offering.

I'm not familiar with Pathway-- does anyone know if the charts are in an electronic format such as .txt or .csv, and is it easy to download in bulk any charts you purchase?