Astonishingly Bad Bank Experience

[Dave Schwartz]

We have banked with Wells Fargo for about 6 years.

Today we went out to purchase a Sleep Number Bed. Rang it up - like $1,500 - and the bank DEBIT card was rejected. The bank says, "Sorry but your daily withdrawal limit is $1,000!"

I said, "WHAT? This is MY money! Is there not enough money to cover this purchase in the account?"

"Yes, there is but we're sorry. We just cannot approve this transaction."

[Track Collector]

Unless this is something that just about all the banks do, I would say, "Sorry, but I'm changing banks".

[Clocker]

Unless this is something that just about all the banks do, I would say, "Sorry, but I'm changing banks".

The problem is finding out what other banks do. And the people that sign you up for accounts often aren't aware of these little "quirks" in the rules. At the risk of being overly cynical, I suspect that isn't part of their training.

When I started my own company, I got an AmEx Corporate account. After many months of paying it off every month, I had a charge turned down. I called AmEx and they said I was over my limit for the month. I said that I was told that there was no limit. The response was, yes, there is no fixed limit on your account, but if we think that you charged too much in a month, we cut it off.

So it is a double secret probation limit.

As to the OP, a debit card can also be run as a charge card. I suspect that it might have cleared if entered as a charge card.

Depending, of course, on what your secret charge limit is. :rolleyes:

[ReplayRandall]

We have banked with Wells Fargo for about 6 years.

Today we went out to purchase a Sleep Number Bed. Rang it up - like $1,500 - and the bank DEBIT card was rejected. The bank says, "Sorry but your daily withdrawal limit is $1,000!"

I said, "WHAT? This is MY money! Is there not enough money to cover this purchase in the account?"

"Yes, there is but we're sorry. We just cannot approve this transaction."


Unless you have a debit card with attached credit card services, then your refusal was due to an automated protection limit. The debit limitations are strictly enforced on weekends to protect the bank from fraudulent transactions, thus limiting their risk for reimbursement to the customer. "Bankers hours" are still 9-5 Mon-Fri, even in this 24/7 cyber-world we live in........BTW, this is why "Cyber Monday" sales aren't on Saturday.....

[Thebart]

It's not a withdrawal limit per-se, it's a daily charge limit that is intended to protect you. If you can't access your account online, you can certainly call customer service or go to a branch and get it raised.

Honestly, on a purchase that large, I'm surprised the merchant wouldn't take a check.

[boxcar]

It's not a withdrawal limit per-se, it's a daily charge limit that is intended to protect you. If you can't access your account online, you can certainly call customer service or go to a branch and get it raised.

Honestly, on a purchase that large, I'm surprised the merchant wouldn't take a check.

Maybe the merchant was a "greenie" trying to save the trees.

[horses4courses]

I have always found Amex to be useful for big ticket items - especially travel.
You pay off the balance in full every month, and their rewards aren't bad.

The downside is a $175 annual fee, but I'm sure if you spend more than I do
(which wouldn't be hard), that fee can be waived.

Nearly 3 years ago now, I was in Ireland for my mother's funeral.
The rental car I had from Avis picked up a small scrape on the front bumper,
which I wasn't aware of until our departure. I had decent insurance coverage
on the mid-size vehicle, but incidental damage such as this wasn't covered
due to the deductible. Avis charged me $1K for the scuff - outrageous.
Complained to Amex - they fought it. No charge.

Their customer service is very good.

[thaskalos]

I have sworn off credit and debit cards for over 3 years now...and I pay cash for everything. I only use credit cards for hotel reservations and car rentals. I recently remodeled my basement, equipping it with a home theater system, along with wrap-around-the-room leather reclining couches. I paid cash, and felt great about it...even though it took the cashier 15 minutes to count the money and complete the transaction, with the work staff standing there and staring at me as if I were Tony Montana.

[ReplayRandall]

I have sworn off credit and debit cards for over 3 years now...and I pay cash for everything. I only use credit cards for hotel reservations and car rentals. I recently remodeled my basement, equipping it with a home theater system, along with wrap-around-the-room leather reclining couches. I paid cash, and felt great about it...even though it took the cashier 15 minutes to count the money and complete the transaction, with the work staff standing there and staring at me as if I were Tony Montana.


Sounds like a real nice set-up in your basement, got any pics?...:cool:

[JustRalph]

I have always found Amex to be useful for big ticket items - especially travel.
You pay off the balance in full every month, and their rewards aren't bad.

The downside is a $175 annual fee, but I'm sure if you spend more than I do
(which wouldn't be hard), that fee can be waived.

Nearly 3 years ago now, I was in Ireland for my mother's funeral.
The rental car I had from Avis picked up a small scrape on the front bumper,
which I wasn't aware of until our departure. I had decent insurance coverage
on the mid-size vehicle, but incidental damage such as this wasn't covered
due to the deductible. Avis charged me $1K for the scuff - outrageous.
Complained to Amex - they fought it. No charge.

Their customer service is very good.

Exactly what I do. Good security algorithm on the cards too.

If you dispute a charge, they pull it and make the vendor prove the charge is legit, or make their customer happy. :ThmbUp:

Debit cards have been limited for years. I found out when I used to own an airplane. Buying fuel would sometimes exceed the daily limit.

Dave, hope you got the bed. Love mine. You won't really get it until about 3 weeks into using it.

[Hank]

We have banked with Wells Fargo for about 6 years.

Today we went out to purchase a Sleep Number Bed. Rang it up - like $1,500 - and the bank DEBIT card was rejected. The bank says, "Sorry but your daily withdrawal limit is $1,000!"

I said, "WHAT? This is MY money! Is there not enough money to cover this purchase in the account?"

"Yes, there is but we're sorry. We just cannot approve this transaction."

Same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago trying to pay for my wife's Christmas gift.Called the number on the card and they allowed the purchase immediately.

[Dave Schwartz]

As to the OP, a debit card can also be run as a charge card. I suspect that it might have cleared if entered as a charge card.

Tried it both ways.


Same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago trying to pay for my wife's Christmas gift.Called the number on the card and they allowed the purchase immediately.

Did that, too. That was when I had the conversation with the bank rep. The issue was not money in the account. The guy said "this is for your protection." I said, "How do we fix this?" He said, "Come into the nearest bank and withdraw cash."

We took the easy way: Debit card at a different bank.


Honestly, on a purchase that large, I'm surprised the merchant wouldn't take a check.

We just never carry checks any more. Seriously.

[Stillriledup]

I have sworn off credit and debit cards for over 3 years now...and I pay cash for everything. I only use credit cards for hotel reservations and car rentals. I recently remodeled my basement, equipping it with a home theater system, along with wrap-around-the-room leather reclining couches. I paid cash, and felt great about it...even though it took the cashier 15 minutes to count the money and complete the transaction, with the work staff standing there and staring at me as if I were Tony Montana.

AVQ8byG2mY8

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

[Stillriledup]

We have banked with Wells Fargo for about 6 years.

Today we went out to purchase a Sleep Number Bed. Rang it up - like $1,500 - and the bank DEBIT card was rejected. The bank says, "Sorry but your daily withdrawal limit is $1,000!"

I said, "WHAT? This is MY money! Is there not enough money to cover this purchase in the account?"

"Yes, there is but we're sorry. We just cannot approve this transaction."

Funny how big banking and big brother get to decide when you can spend YOUR money. Pretty nice of them.

[badcompany]

Citibank also has a 1k a day limit on ATM withdrawals.

[Robert Goren]

Not on common. I had trouble with a check I wrote to some for a 15 year old used car. I had to talk to the branch manager so the guy could cash the $1500 check. that was in 2003.

Wells Fargo changed it business model when it was taken over by Norwest. They have slowly but surely been getting rid of unprofitable (read small) customers. They have done very good job at it and it is reflected in their bottom line. If you are a small banking customer, you should be dealing with a small local bank or a credit union. They want your business. Banks like Wells Fargo do not.

[acorn54]

Not on common. I had trouble with a check I wrote to some for a 15 year old used car. I had to talk to the branch manager so the guy could cash the $1500 check. that was in 2003.

Wells Fargo changed it business model when it was taken over by Norwest. They have slowly but surely been getting rid of unprofitable (read small) customers. They have done very good job at it and it is reflected in their bottom line. If you are a small banking customer, you should be dealing with a small local bank or a credit union. They want your business. Banks like Wells Fargo do not.


every since the "too big to fail" bank debacle, left a bad taste in my mouth, i have been doing bank business with the neighborhood credit union.

[Tom]

The banks feel that your money is their money.
Banks looking out for our interests...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[FocusWiz]

I find this thread quite interesting. I first ran into this buying a computer about five years ago when my bank refused the transaction. Later they told me that I could have pre-authorized the transaction if I wanted to spend more than their (secret) limit on debit card transactions. Since then, I have learned that practically every organization has these limits (at seemingly random levels) even though we may not run into them. I ask any time I am going to spend over a thousand dollars from one of my accounts with a debit card.

I will try to find out if any of my banks have changed their limits recently. I wonder if the banks are trying to limit funds movement due to the government's recently increased capital requirements

[Robert Goren]

I find this thread quite interesting. I first ran into this buying a computer about five years ago when my bank refused the transaction. Later they told me that I could have pre-authorized the transaction if I wanted to spend more than their (secret) limit on debit card transactions. Since then, I have learned that practically every organization has these limits (at seemingly random levels) even though we may not run into them. I ask any time I am going to spend over a thousand dollars from one of my accounts with a debit card.

I will try to find out if any of my banks have changed their limits recently. I wonder if the banks are trying to limit funds movement due to the government's recently increased capital requirementsThey will removed the limits if you insist on it. But you have to "insist" as they will try to talk you out of it.

[racko]

my friend has one and he never moved it for years because his options of where to place it were limited. He has to move it for new carpeting. He found a ton of mold by the mechanical area. He was sleeping by mold for years.



he promptly threw it out.. Possibly Google this to see if there are others with this problem.

[thaskalos]

They will removed the limits if you insist on it. But you have to "insist" as they will try to talk you out of it.

Don't you think that Dave probably "insisted" that they remove the limits...when he couldn't pay for his bed?

[ReplayRandall]

my friend has one and he never moved it for years because his options of where to place it were limited. He has to move it for new carpeting. He found a ton of mold by the mechanical area. He was sleeping by mold for years.



he promptly threw it out.. Possibly Google this to see if there are others with this problem.

This problem only exists with Sleep number beds manufactured before 2005....

[FocusWiz]

They will removed the limits if you insist on it. But you have to "insist" as they will try to talk you out of it.I have found that every bank has their own policy on this.

[therussmeister]

I find this thread quite interesting. I first ran into this buying a computer about five years ago when my bank refused the transaction. Later they told me that I could have pre-authorized the transaction if I wanted to spend more than their (secret) limit on debit card transactions. Since then, I have learned that practically every organization has these limits (at seemingly random levels) even though we may not run into them. I ask any time I am going to spend over a thousand dollars from one of my accounts with a debit card.

I will try to find out if any of my banks have changed their limits recently. I wonder if the banks are trying to limit funds movement due to the government's recently increased capital requirements
A couple of posts referenced a secret limit, but Wells-Fargo has no such 'secrets'. Their daily limits are clearly stated when they first issue you your debit card, and every four years when they give you a new one. I'm surprised the original poster was not aware of this, but I'm the kind of guy who reads everything, and I falsely assume too many people are like me.

[FocusWiz]

A couple of posts referenced a secret limit, but Wells-Fargo has no such 'secrets'. Their daily limits are clearly stated when they first issue you your debit card, and every four years when they give you a new one. I'm surprised the original poster was not aware of this, but I'm the kind of guy who reads everything, and I falsely assume too many people are like me.I was saying that with tongue-in-cheek. I should have put that in quotes. They aren't secret. For example, TD Bank includes theirs on (I think) page 42 of their agreement (though their online FAQs tell you to look at page 39 and 40). We are a nation that just signs things without reading them. In addition, when these things are changed, they send you an "updated" agreement (with nothing highlighting what they changed). I find it is better to call than to try to remember what I signed when I opened my account 15 years (and three bank changes) ago.

[Overlay]

We have banked with Wells Fargo for about 6 years.

Today we went out to purchase a Sleep Number Bed. Rang it up - like $1,500 - and the bank DEBIT card was rejected. The bank says, "Sorry but your daily withdrawal limit is $1,000!"

I said, "WHAT? This is MY money! Is there not enough money to cover this purchase in the account?"

"Yes, there is but we're sorry. We just cannot approve this transaction."
I bank with Wells Fargo also. I can understand a limit on daily cash withdrawals with a debit card, but not purchases. I may be wrong, but I thought that one of the ways to get around such a debit-card limit was to have your debit card linked to a credit card with a multi-thousand dollar credit line (the kind of debit card with a Visa or MasterCard logo on the front), where the bank will automatically charge your credit card account if (for any reason) your checking account does not have a sufficient balance to handle a given transaction (which was not true in your case, of course, but I'm speaking as a matter of general policy).

[JustRalph]

This problem only exists with Sleep number beds manufactured before 2005....

Ding! Exactly right :ThmbUp:

[Dave Schwartz]

Don't you think that Dave probably "insisted" that they remove the limits...when he couldn't pay for his bed?

Only if you call screaming into the phone, "It's MY MONEY and I WANT IT NOW!" insisting. :lol:

After we hung up the salesman said, "I think if you had asked them for a one-time exception they could have given it to you."

Imagine what this does to big-ticket retail.

[AndyC]

In fairness to the banks and credit card companies they are actually helping consumers with limits. They are primarily there for fraud protection and not because they are trying to take advantage of the "little guy". Does anybody really think that a bank is worried about a customer taking $2,000 out of their account?

If you are an informed consumer you would know the limits in place. You would also know that by contacting your bank and credit card company before making a large transaction or are traveling overseas it will usually prevent any problems.

[Dave Schwartz]

They are primarily there for fraud protection and not because they are trying to take advantage of the "little guy"

I cannot disagree with that statement or the logic behind it.

However, once I have jumped through all the hoops - i.e. proving who I am with secret questions, amount and date of last deposit and withdrawal, etc. (yes, they asked these questions and I had all the answers) - they need to stop trying to "protect me from myself."

Additionally, I contend that because THEY are on the hook for fraud protection (if I use the credit card option), they are not protecting ME, they are protecting THEMSELVES.


Maybe people might not know that but with a debit card transaction there is no fraud protection and only limited dispute protection. IOW, run it as a debit and you are on your own.

[Dahoss2002]

I use a credit card for everything and pay it off every month so there is never any interest or fees. Built up almost 300 dollars in rewards points in 2014 . Not for everyone though.

[ArlJim78]

It happened to me about 4 years ago when trying to purchase a computer.
The retailer got the bank (Chase) on the phone for me, they confirmed my identify and approved the purchase. As I recall they even bumped up the daily limit for me as well. For a few moments i was starting to fume but like I said the person on the phone handled the matter immediately. Seemed like a reasonable attempt to limit fraud.

[howardjim]

I have always found Amex to be useful for big ticket items - especially travel.
You pay off the balance in full every month, and their rewards aren't bad.

The downside is a $175 annual fee, but I'm sure if you spend more than I do
(which wouldn't be hard), that fee can be waived.

H4C, the $175 may have been a typo, regardless the link below details one of their current cards with excellent "rewards".

https://www304.americanexpress.com/credit-card/blue-cash-preferred/28000?ccsgeep=28000&psccsg=CCSG_Google_Blue%20Cash%20Preferred_Exact

[AndyC]

I cannot disagree with that statement or the logic behind it.

However, once I have jumped through all the hoops - i.e. proving who I am with secret questions, amount and date of last deposit and withdrawal, etc. (yes, they asked these questions and I had all the answers) - they need to stop trying to "protect me from myself."

Additionally, I contend that because THEY are on the hook for fraud protection (if I use the credit card option), they are not protecting ME, they are protecting THEMSELVES.


Maybe people might not know that but with a debit card transaction there is no fraud protection and only limited dispute protection. IOW, run it as a debit and you are on your own.


FYI, if you report debit card fraud within 2 days of the fraud you are only on the hook for $50. If you report the fraud later than 2 days but within 60 days you are on the hook for $500.

While it is true that the banks are protecting themselves with the limits, who do you think pays for all of the fraud losses through higher bank fees? So yes, the limits do help the consumer.

[Dave Schwartz]

FYI, if you report debit card fraud within 2 days of the fraud you are only on the hook for $50. If you report the fraud later than 2 days but within 60 days you are on the hook for $500.

Fraud is covered but borderline disputes are not. Not even for $50.

Example: My son bought about $12 worth of gas in an LA gas station. He was billed $100 (a withholding amount common on many debit purchases). It was discovered about a week later when the approximately $88 was not charged back.

The bank initiated an "investigation" which consisted of asking the service station for its record of the charge including withholding amount. When the service station declined saying that they "could not find it" the bank said (essentially), "Sorry but we do not get involved in disputes with vendors if you do not use the card as a credit card."

Since that day, we allow stores to pay the higher fees associated with credit card rather than the less expensive debit feature whenever possible.

BTW, in the above-mentioned example, it is impossible to report within 2 days because it routinely takes 3+ days for the money to be returned. A debit card user would, effectively, have to report EVERY transaction in order to have reported "the occasional bad one" in a timely manner.

My point is that the banks are almost never The Good Guys.

[Tom]

Wow, Dave...banks are even slimier than I thought.

Banks need extremely tight regulations - they should not be allowed to fart without written permission.

All banks are evil. Houses of the Devil.

[AndyC]

Fraud is covered but borderline disputes are not. Not even for $50.

Example: My son bought about $12 worth of gas in an LA gas station. He was billed $100 (a withholding amount common on many debit purchases). It was discovered about a week later when the approximately $88 was not charged back.

The bank initiated an "investigation" which consisted of asking the service station for its record of the charge including withholding amount. When the service station declined saying that they "could not find it" the bank said (essentially), "Sorry but we do not get involved in disputes with vendors if you do not use the card as a credit card."

Since that day, we allow stores to pay the higher fees associated with credit card rather than the less expensive debit feature whenever possible.

BTW, in the above-mentioned example, it is impossible to report within 2 days because it routinely takes 3+ days for the money to be returned. A debit card user would, effectively, have to report EVERY transaction in order to have reported "the occasional bad one" in a timely manner.

My point is that the banks are almost never The Good Guys.

So your son did not ask for a receipt from his transaction? If he didn't discover that he had been overcharged until a week later perhaps he might want to rediscover the lost art of reconciling his account.

As for a bank not wanting to get involved in a "dispute" it would be helpful to give them some evidence to back up the claim. How could your son prove that he wasn't given $88 in cash?

I don't doubt that your son was ripped off and people who commit such crimes are scum but honestly any fault lies 99% with your son for not paying attention. Similar to checking your tickets at the window when betting.

[Dave Schwartz]

So your son did not ask for a receipt from his transaction? If he didn't discover that he had been overcharged until a week later perhaps he might want to rediscover the lost art of reconciling his account.

Clearly, not having kept his receipt was his fault, but not the point of my post.

The bank would not "demand" a transaction record from the seller if the seller did not wish to give it willingly. IOW, it was not (according to the terms of service) their responsibility.

My point was that the bank does not feel required to protect your money if you use the debit option.

[Actor]

Honestly, on a purchase that large, I'm surprised the merchant wouldn't take a check.Who carries a checkbook these days?

[Stillriledup]

Fraud is covered but borderline disputes are not. Not even for $50.

Example: My son bought about $12 worth of gas in an LA gas station. He was billed $100 (a withholding amount common on many debit purchases). It was discovered about a week later when the approximately $88 was not charged back.

The bank initiated an "investigation" which consisted of asking the service station for its record of the charge including withholding amount. When the service station declined saying that they "could not find it" the bank said (essentially), "Sorry but we do not get involved in disputes with vendors if you do not use the card as a credit card."

Since that day, we allow stores to pay the higher fees associated with credit card rather than the less expensive debit feature whenever possible.

BTW, in the above-mentioned example, it is impossible to report within 2 days because it routinely takes 3+ days for the money to be returned. A debit card user would, effectively, have to report EVERY transaction in order to have reported "the occasional bad one" in a timely manner.

My point is that the banks are almost never The Good Guys.

Is there a reason that he would use a debit card rather than going to an ATM or a bank earlier in the week and just withdrawing cash and using THAT for purchases?

[Stillriledup]

Who carries a checkbook these days?

These people. :D

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118386

[Actor]

I had a bad experience a couple of years ago. We had gone to California on vacation, taken the grandchildren to Disneyland, seen L.A., the Grand Canyon, the Meteor Crater, etc.

The financial strategy for the trip was to take only two debit cards, no credit cards and to keep cash on hand to a minimum.

We spent the night in an out-of-the-way hotel that was rather nice, $150 / night. I gave them my debit card, got checked in and we spent the night. On checking out the girl at the desk said that the card had not cleared and that she needed an alternate form of payment. This sounded strange to me, that the problem had not shown up when we checked in.

The girl suggested that I go to the gas station next door and get cash from their ATM machine. Now my suspicions were really high. Why should the card work with an ATM machine when it would not work for the hotel? I suspected that the girl was trying to con me, that the card had indeed cleared and she was trying to double charge me.

I called my bank on my cell and was told that the problem was probably that I was spending an unusually large amount while out of town. They called me back about an hour later and said that that was not the problem. They suggested having the hotel try to run the card again. Again it would not clear.

I was beginning to think of trying to get relatives back east to wire us some cash. The problem with that was that the nearest Western Union was about 100 miles away (this was really in the middle of nowhere) and the hotel would not agree to let me leave, even if I left the family as hostages. On more than one occasion the girl had hinted about calling the cops.

About noon my bank called and told me that no charges from the hotel had ever been presented.

The problem was that the hotel was not swiping the card but were entering the numbers manually on a laptop with a faulty keyboard. So the whole thing was resolved, but to this day I still suspect they were trying to scam me.

I'd rather not reveal the name of the hotel as I think they probably have better lawyers than I can afford. However, I suggest that you avoid hotels that are not part of major chains, that are far from interstates and that are owned by Indian tribes.

[Stillriledup]

I had a bad experience a couple of years ago. We had gone to California on vacation, taken the grandchildren to Disneyland, seen L.A., the Grand Canyon, the Meteor Crater, etc.

The financial strategy for the trip was to take only two debit cards, no credit cards and to keep cash on hand to a minimum.

We spent the night in an out-of-the-way hotel that was rather nice, $150 / night. I gave them my debit card, got checked in and we spent the night. On checking out the girl at the desk said that the card had not cleared and that she needed an alternate form of payment. This sounded strange to me, that the problem had not shown up when we checked in.

The girl suggested that I go to the gas station next door and get cash from their ATM machine. Now my suspicions were really high. Why should the card work with an ATM machine when it would not work for the hotel? I suspected that the girl was trying to con me, that the card had indeed cleared and she was trying to double charge me.

I called my bank on my cell and was told that the problem was probably that I was spending an unusually large amount while out of town. They called me back about an hour later and said that that was not the problem. They suggested having the hotel try to run the card again. Again it would not clear.

I was beginning to think of trying to get relatives back east to wire us some cash. The problem with that was that the nearest Western Union was about 100 miles away (this was really in the middle of nowhere) and the hotel would not agree to let me leave, even if I left the family as hostages. On more than one occasion the girl had hinted about calling the cops.

About noon my bank called and told me that no charges from the hotel had ever been presented.

The problem was that the hotel was not swiping the card but were entering the numbers manually on a laptop with a faulty keyboard. So the whole thing was resolved, but to this day I still suspect they were trying to scam me.

I'd rather not reveal the name of the hotel as I think they probably have better lawyers than I can afford. However, I suggest that you avoid hotels that are not part of major chains, that are far from interstates and that are owned by Indian tribes.


I read your entire post without coming to any conclusion, but when i read the last 2 words of your post, i came to a conclusion about what happened. Lets just say it was an "ah ha" moment.

[JustRalph]

A Minnie ha ha moment

[HUSKER55]

super 8 is / or was notorious for doing that kind of crap.

[Dave Schwartz]

Is there a reason that he would use a debit card rather than going to an ATM or a bank earlier in the week and just withdrawing cash and using THAT for purchases?

Yes, it is more trouble that it should be worth.

Is that what you would do? If that is the case why use a card at all?

Most people in this age do not want to carry cash.

[thaskalos]

In 2004, after my wife passed away, I opted to sell my house and buy a home about 25 miles north...so I could be close to my mom and sister, who could assist me in caring for my 5-year old son. I sold the house, and decided to deposit the check that I got at the closing at a Fifth/Third branch, which was located close to the new house that I had found.

I walked inside the small branch...and was led to the desk of a young lady, who was in charge of opening new accounts. After the usual preliminaries...she asked me for my Social Security number, and typed the information into her computer.

"Oops"...she said with surprise, as she looked at her computer screen.

"Is anything wrong"...I replied?

"Well...it seems that there have been three inquiries into your credit history over the last three weeks"...she said to me, with an inquisitive look.

"Well...I have been in the process of buying a house and have made calls to electricity, phone and gas companies,"...I said..."and I am convinced that this is the reason for the inquiries. Is that a problem...is there something wrong with my credit?"

"No sir, there is nothing wrong with your credit...but we have a policy which prohibits us from opening a new account for you if there have been more than two recent inquiries into your credit history. I am truly sorry"...she said to me, apologetically.

I patiently tried to explain to her that I was only there to open a regular money market account, not to apply for a loan, and that any such precautions were clearly unnecessary in this case...but she was resolute in her refusal to open my account...and even informed me that there was no one else but her in that bank who could assist me in the matter.

So I headed for the exit...without even been given the opportunity to show her the obscenely large check that I was carrying.

[AndyC]

Clearly, not having kept his receipt was his fault, but not the point of my post.

The bank would not "demand" a transaction record from the seller if the seller did not wish to give it willingly. IOW, it was not (according to the terms of service) their responsibility.

My point was that the bank does not feel required to protect your money if you use the debit option.

Dave,

I am trying to understand your point but I don't follow your reasoning.

Let's say the merchant produced a transaction record. Don't you think the record would say $100 with an authorizing pin from your son? So you end up with a you said/they said controversy which the bank or just about anybody else is ill equipped to deal with.

[AndyC]

In 2004, after my wife passed away, I opted to sell my house and buy a home about 25 miles north...so I could be close to my mom and sister, who could assist me in caring for my 5-year old son. I sold the house, and decided to deposit the check that I got at the closing at a Fifth/Third branch, which was located close to the new house that I had found.

I walked inside the small branch...and was led to the desk of a young lady, who was in charge of opening new accounts. After the usual preliminaries...she asked me for my Social Security number, and typed the information into her computer.

"Oops"...she said with surprise, as she looked at her computer screen.

"Is anything wrong"...I replied?

"Well...it seems that there have been three inquiries into your credit history over the last three weeks"...she said to me, with an inquisitive look.

"Well...I have been in the process of buying a house and have made calls to electricity, phone and gas companies,"...I said..."and I am convinced that this is the reason for the inquiries. Is that a problem...is there something wrong with my credit?"

"No sir, there is nothing wrong with your credit...but we have a policy which prohibits us from opening a new account for you if there have been more than two recent inquiries into your credit history. I am truly sorry"...she said to me, apologetically.

I patiently tried to explain to her that I was only there to open a regular money market account, not to apply for a loan, and that any such precautions were clearly unnecessary in this case...but she was resolute in her refusal to open my account...and even informed me that there was no one else but her in that bank who could assist me in the matter.

So I headed for the exit...without even been given the opportunity to show her the obscenely large check that I was carrying.


My father was a lifelong banker and I have heard many war stories about poor customer service. Your story sounds very familiar. You would be astonished as to how many customers have been chased away based on bank policy. Most of the issues stem from dealing with inexperienced employees who are trying to do a good job for the employer and aren't savvy enough to sort through the details or have the authority to override policy. The service you get is often a function of how well the branch officer has trained his employees so the problem is often local and not systemic.

[Dave Schwartz]

Let's say the merchant produced a transaction record. Don't you think the record would say $100 with an authorizing pin from your son?

That's the point. The refused to produce anything and the bank did not press them on it.

BTW, my son has a small car. He couldn't get $100 of gas in that car in a month.

I think we're on different pages here. The issue is not what he was bought or even what he was charged. The issue was that the bank refused any involvement in investigating beyond calling the station and saying please send us the transaction report. When the station said, "No." The bank (effectively) said, "Well, we've done all we're going to do."

I am suggesting that the bank needs to take more responsibility than that.

[Dave Schwartz]

Thaskalos,

Your story is typical of our policy-based society that simply does not allow "managers" to fix consequences obviously not intended by the policy.

[horses4courses]

Thaskalos,

Your story is typical of our policy-based society that simply does not allow "managers" to fix consequences obviously not intended by the policy.

I agree entirely.

No leeway for employees to think "outside the box".
Policy overrides all else - including common sense.

[AndyC]

That's the point. The refused to produce anything and the bank did not press them on it.

BTW, my son has a small car. He couldn't get $100 of gas in that car in a month.

I think we're on different pages here. The issue is not what he was bought or even what he was charged. The issue was that the bank refused any involvement in investigating beyond calling the station and saying please send us the transaction report. When the station said, "No." The bank (effectively) said, "Well, we've done all we're going to do."

I am suggesting that the bank needs to take more responsibility than that.


Earth to Dave. People routinely make purchases and get cash back. I am sure the guy at the register rung him up for $13 in gas and $87 in cash. The bank could not have done squat, but your son could have.

I am confused as to what the bank's responsibility is and what your son's responsibility is.

[AndyC]

Your story is typical of our policy-based society that simply does not allow "managers" to fix consequences obviously not intended by the policy.

First of all, Thaskalos didn't say he was working with a manager, he was working with a person who opened new accounts.

Secondly, I was unaware that our-policy based society does not allow managers to fix consequences. You sure paint everybody with a broad brush. Does that apply to your business or do you operate without policies? Aren't policies generally put in place to prevent certain undesirable things from happening?

[AndyC]

I agree entirely.

No leeway for employees to think "outside the box".
Policy overrides all else - including common sense.

Who are you guys actually dealing with? The door greeters at WalMart?

[Dave Schwartz]

First of all, Thaskalos didn't say he was working with a manager, he was working with a person who opened new accounts.

Secondly, I was unaware that our-policy based society does not allow managers to fix consequences. You sure paint everybody with a broad brush. Does that apply to your business or do you operate without policies? Aren't policies generally put in place to prevent certain undesirable things from happening?


No, Thaskalos did not say he dealt with a manager but was told that nobody else could help him. To me that inferred that a higher-level person would not change the result.

Clearly you are seeing my posts from a different perspective than I am making them from.

Why don't you and I agree to disagree and move on?

[horses4courses]

Who are you guys actually dealing with? The door greeters at WalMart?

Similar qualifications.
About 40 years younger, though.

[AndyC]

No, Thaskalos did not say he dealt with a manager but was told that nobody else could help him. To me that inferred that a higher-level person would not change the result.

Clearly you are seeing my posts from a different perspective than I am making them from.

Why don't you and I agree to disagree and move on?

I will gladly move on. Clearly you have no idea of what the bank should have done to "take responsibility" but feel free to go on complaining. You're good at it.

[Dave Schwartz]

Oh, a classy parting shot.

Okay, you win. Tell me... What should the bank be responsible for?

[EMD4ME]

In 2004, after my wife passed away, I opted to sell my house and buy a home about 25 miles north...so I could be close to my mom and sister, who could assist me in caring for my 5-year old son. I sold the house, and decided to deposit the check that I got at the closing at a Fifth/Third branch, which was located close to the new house that I had found.

I walked inside the small branch...and was led to the desk of a young lady, who was in charge of opening new accounts. After the usual preliminaries...she asked me for my Social Security number, and typed the information into her computer.

"Oops"...she said with surprise, as she looked at her computer screen.

"Is anything wrong"...I replied?

"Well...it seems that there have been three inquiries into your credit history over the last three weeks"...she said to me, with an inquisitive look.

"Well...I have been in the process of buying a house and have made calls to electricity, phone and gas companies,"...I said..."and I am convinced that this is the reason for the inquiries. Is that a problem...is there something wrong with my credit?"

"No sir, there is nothing wrong with your credit...but we have a policy which prohibits us from opening a new account for you if there have been more than two recent inquiries into your credit history. I am truly sorry"...she said to me, apologetically.

I patiently tried to explain to her that I was only there to open a regular money market account, not to apply for a loan, and that any such precautions were clearly unnecessary in this case...but she was resolute in her refusal to open my account...and even informed me that there was no one else but her in that bank who could assist me in the matter.

So I headed for the exit...without even been given the opportunity to show her the obscenely large check that I was carrying.

As a VP for a large bank, I am both happy and upset to hear that. Happy because it reminds me just how inept the competition is but sad for 2 reasons. 1) that you had that experience. 2) because that could possibly be my employee one day (no matter how hard I try to build the right culture.)

[thaskalos]

As a VP for a large bank, I am both happy and upset to hear that. Happy because it reminds me just how inept the competition is but sad for 2 reasons. 1) that you had that experience. 2) because that could possibly be my employee one day (no matter how hard I try to build the right culture.)

You are a banker? And to think I was starting to like you. :)

[EMD4ME]

You are a banker? And to think I was starting to like you. :)

Don't hold it against me :lol:

I'm a unique banker. Ethical, loyal and selfless. I'm in the wrong industry.

[thaskalos]

Don't hold it against me :lol:

I'm a unique banker. Ethical, loyal and selfless. I'm in the wrong industry.

A "selfless banker"? What will I see next...a generous priest? :)

[JustRalph]

Don't hold it against me :lol:

I'm a unique banker. Ethical, loyal and selfless. I'm in the wrong industry.


I bet you say that to all the boys!

[barn32]

I've been with US Bank for a while now, and I'm very happy with them.

They blocked a purchase on my debit card a while back because of the Home Depot hack, but after a phone call and a few questions I was back in business.

A couple of weeks ago I was making a fairly large cash deposit at an ATM machine. The door opens and you just put in the cash. It won't accept more than 50 bills at a time otherwise it just pushes them back out.

I hadn't counted the money, but I knew approximately how much I had. The bills were all mixed up as well. So, I peeled off about 40 bills put them in the machine and waited for it to count them. Then I did it again. On the third installment, the machine jammed and wouldn't reject the bills or count them. It just froze.

The ATM was in a grocery store that had a US Bank branch inside. I walked over and got the bank manager to take a look at my situation.

"How much money were you trying to deposit?"

"I don't know. I didn't count it."

"Well, we have to know how much it is in order to process a claim."

"I can guess. I have an idea. But I don't know exactly. I think it's somewhere between $600 and $850. There was a hundred dollar bill in there, maybe two, but I'm just not sure."

He got a form and filled it out and gave me a number to call. I put down $850 as the amount.

I called the number and processed a claim. More than a week went by with no response so I called again. They had no record of the claim so we reprocessed it.

I went out of town for a while and forgot about it. This is the second time I've had to process a claim with US Bank, so I wasn't really worried.

When I got back to town I had a letter from the bank saying they there was indeed a malfunction and that they had deposited $850 into my account.

I think $850 is too much. So I called them and told them $850 was just an estimate, and maybe a little high at that. They responded that they didn't know exactly how much the deposit was for, but they did know the machine malfunctioned, so they went ahead and processed my claim for the amount I stated.

I felt a little sheepish, but since I didn't know the exact amount I just let it go.

Great bank.

[AndyC]

Oh, a classy parting shot.

Okay, you win. Tell me... What should the bank be responsible for?

Dave, what I have been trying to point out to you is that there is no document or transaction record kept by the merchant that could show that your son was ripped off. Given that fact what steps should a bank take? The only way your son could have gotten his money back is by having the receipt from his transaction and comparing that with what was taken from his account.

I apologize for my parting shot. My frustration with your avoidance of discussing specifics of what a bank could have done but still insisting that the bank had responsibility didn't sit well with me. If you would have said that the bank could have done "A" which would have produced "B" which would have shown "C" then you would have answered my question.

[Dave Schwartz]

I must still disagree.

I very clearly said that the bank should have DEMANDED the record of the transaction from the station. The gas station simply said, "No," and the bank (essentially) said, "Well, that's all we're willing to do."

I do not think that was an unrealistic request on the part of the bank customer, nor should it have been unrealistic on the part of the bank.

If I call my bank, with or without a receipt, I should be able to question ANY transaction.

The bank SHOULD and MUST act as the advocate of the customer because the customer cannot.


Consider this... suppose my son said, "I never bought gas there." He would have no receipt. What does the bank do then? Do they say, "How do YOU prove you didn't make a purchase?"

[AndyC]

I must still disagree.

I very clearly said that the bank should have DEMANDED the record of the transaction from the station. The gas station simply said, "No," and the bank (essentially) said, "Well, that's all we're willing to do."

I do not think that was an unrealistic request on the part of the bank customer, nor should it have been unrealistic on the part of the bank.

If I call my bank, with or without a receipt, I should be able to question ANY transaction.

The bank SHOULD and MUST act as the advocate of the customer because the customer cannot.


Consider this... suppose my son said, "I never bought gas there." He would have no receipt. What does the bank do then? Do they say, "How do YOU prove you didn't make a purchase?"


You have still avoided a key question. What could a so-called record of transaction reveal? I am harping on this question because you seem so sure that a bank could find something by looking at the merchants transaction records. I assure you they can't. If a transaction record was presented I am sure it would say $100. If you believe that I am wrong lay out possible fact patterns using transaction records that could prove fault.

As to your hypothetical question, it is really not hard at all to prove that you didn't make a purchase.

[EMD4ME]

A "selfless banker"? What will I see next...a generous priest? :)

Haven't met one of those yet. I'm with you! All crooks.

[Dave Schwartz]

As to your hypothetical question, it is really not hard at all to prove that you didn't make a purchase.

How does one do that without the bank's help?

And I do not know what is revealed by a transaction. Is nothing revealed?

If the bank doesn't do this, who does?

[EMD4ME]

I bet you say that to all the boys!

Lol not really. As a man of action, I let my actions do all my talking. Thaskalos commented so I responded.

[BlueShoe]

About four or five years ago the hotels that I stay in starting hitting my card for an additional charge per day, usually $30 or so, above the room rate. An irritated inquiry got back the reply that the charge was temporary, and would be reversed upon checkout, provided that there were no additional charges to my room (Room service? Porn Movies?) or theft or damage. Not a problem. as promised, the extra tab came off while taking my last shot in the racebook or driving home. The practice still annoys, when I call and reserve a room, my card is billed at that time, why can't they leave it at that? :confused:

[whodoyoulike]

About four or five years ago the hotels that I stay in starting hitting my card for an additional charge per day, usually $30 or so, above the room rate. An irritated inquiry got back the reply that the charge was temporary, and would be reversed upon checkout, provided that there were no additional charges to my room (Room service? Porn Movies?) or theft or damage. Not a problem. as promised, the extra tab came off while taking my last shot in the racebook or driving home. The practice still annoys, when I call and reserve a room, my card is billed at that time, why can't they leave it at that? :confused:


I hear you but, these can quickly add up.