BOB BAFFERT AGAIN POLITICKING

[NY BRED]

jUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT A THREAD WAS FINISHED IT BEGINS AGAIN!

You have to walk the walk, talk the talk and dance all the dances to win an Eclipse Award. So says Bob Baffert, who has won his share, capped in 2001, when Point Given was named Horse of the Year.

The Eclipse winners and Horse of the Year for 2014 will be announced Jan. 17. Bayern, winner of the Breeders’ Cup Classic by a nose after favored Shared Belief was roughed at the start and finished fourth, has enough on his resume to be worthy of Horse of the Year, in the opinion of Baffert, who has a vested interest, since he trains the speedy 3-year-old.

“I really feel that horses like California Chrome and Bayern need to be rewarded for their overall excellence on the year,” Baffert said. “Chrome should be 3-year-old champion and Bayern Horse of the Year.

The rest here:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/baffert-on-eclipse-awards-bayern-chrome-need-to-be-rewarded/

[classhandicapper]

I'm not sure Baffert fully understands why some people came away from the Classic feeling unsatisfied. It's not just the lack of a controversial DQ.

Right or wrong, some people were skeptical of Bayern's chances in the Classic at 10F because in the Haskell and at Parx he got loose controlling leads on biased tracks. When he was pushed hard in the Travers on a tiring track where the rail may have been deeper, he totally collapsed.

The assumption was that the Classic would be an honest set of circumstances going 10F and we'd find out who was actually best.

The problem was that SA was probably a little more tilted to speed that day than the average track in America is day to day and he didn't just take out Shared Belief, he also took out the other major speed, Moreno.

So he wound up with a better than neutral trip in a race where the top 3 went 1-2-3 around the track, the 4th horse had a terrible trip, and some of the closers seemed a bit compromised. It was an unsatisfactory outcome.

All that is not to say he doesn't deserve HOTY, but there's no way you can come away from the Classic feeling like he was clearly best that day, especially not if the race had been held somewhere like CD, BEL or some other non paved highway. If he had bumped some insignificant horses and people felt he won fair and square, the lack of a DQ would be inconsequential to the Eclipse voting.

I'm not sure we are ever going to get a satisfactory result among those 3. IMO, the probability that Bayern & Shared Belief move forward as 4yos is greater than the probability that CA Chrome moves forward. But we'll see.

[Stillriledup]

What i get out of this is that Baffert is lobbying for CC to be HOY, he just doesn't realize it.

Since there's a conflict of interest concerning Bayern, if you ignore or delete all the stuff he said about Bayern and just read what he said about CC, what he said was:

"Chrome should be 3 year old Champion"

Also, if i was a voter, i would hold this against Baffert simply because he must not feel Bayern did enough to win this award, so he has to "speak out". Him speaking out feels to me that he thinks Bayern is not "in front" in people's minds and he has to take this tactic in order to try and sway public opinion.

The "tell" is that he doesn't think Bayern will win or else he would have just kept quiet. And, if he doesn't think Bayern will win, why should we?

[letswastemoney]

If a three year old is HOTY, that horse should be three year old champion.

It defies all logic for Bayern to win HOTY, but not the 3 year old Eclipse, just as it would not make sense for Chrome to win one but not the other.

[Stillriledup]

If a three year old is HOTY, that horse should be three year old champion.

It defies all logic for Bayern to win HOTY, but not the 3 year old Eclipse, just as it would not make sense for Chrome to win one but not the other.

Zero chance that a 3 yo could win divisional honors and lose the HOY to another 3 yo. Not sure why Baffert would suggest this, it can't happen.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If a three year old is HOTY, that horse should be three year old champion.

It defies all logic for Bayern to win HOTY, but not the 3 year old Eclipse, just as it would not make sense for Chrome to win one but not the other.

I had the same reaction - completely illogical argument.

[ReplayRandall]

Funny thing that Baffert and his huge ego does all this talking, but on opening day at SA, Jimmy Barnes will be running the show for the Baffert barn....

[Fingal]

Zero chance that a 3 yo could win divisional honors and lose the HOY to another 3 yo. Not sure why Baffert would suggest this, it can't happen.

To me it makes perfect sense. Bayern is owned by Kalim Shaw, one of Baffert's main owners so of course he's going to lobby for that horse to win an Eclipse. He knows he's not going to logically get top 3 yr old, so he's going after what's left.

To not would be like would be if Mike Repole was in that situation & Todd Pletcher downplayed his main clients horse, aka they'd just may be looking at some empty stalls soon after.

[Stillriledup]

To me it makes perfect sense. Bayern is owned by Kalim Shaw, one of Baffert's main owners so of course he's going to lobby for that horse to win an Eclipse. He knows he's not going to logically get top 3 yr old, so he's going after what's left.

To not would be like would be if Mike Repole was in that situation & Todd Pletcher downplayed his main clients horse, aka they'd just may be looking at some empty stalls soon after.

I just think that if you're (baffert) going to open your mouth, go all the way. He talked as if he wanted to get his point across without insulting CC, i dont think you can have it both ways, because you end up saying something odd. We all know that he doesn't think CC should win 3yo honors, he thinks HE should win it...so right there, you gotta be skeptical of that, why would he say that the horse of the year (his horse) shouldn't even win 3 yo honors?

I get lobbying, but lobby all the way, don't go half speed.

[Saratoga_Mike]

To me it makes perfect sense. Bayern is owned by Kalim Shaw, one of Baffert's main owners so of course he's going to lobby for that horse to win an Eclipse. He knows he's not going to logically get top 3 yr old, so he's going after what's left.

To not would be like would be if Mike Repole was in that situation & Todd Pletcher downplayed his main clients horse, aka they'd just may be looking at some empty stalls soon after.

It makes perfect sense that Baffert is talking up his horse. But it's completely illogical to argue his horse wasn't good enough for 3-yr-old of the yr, but he deserves HOTY. It's a non-sequitur. He should argue Bayern deserves 3OTY and HOTY.

[taxicab]

Trainer Baffert kind of took a cheap shot dig at Hollendorfer and Shared Belief.
Keep it classy Bob...... :ThmbDown:

[Stillriledup]

Trainer Baffert kind of took a cheap shot dig at Hollendorfer and Shared Belief.
Keep it classy Bob...... :ThmbDown:

Bob always keeps it classy.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/23/bad-blood-escalates-between-baffert-and-oneill-bar/

[NY BRED]

[The reason I posted this comment is that good ol' Bob must be sensing
Bayern is endangered as best 3 YO and/or horse of the year
DUE to the gate incident, which at any other track in the US
would be an automatic DQ regardless of winning the Classic.

His glib analysis of the Classic immediately after the race and yesterday
lead me to believe he may be taking heat from his owner(s) and certainly
has from the press. I just looked at the Thorograph sheets, if SB run to his numbers he wins for fun, ie by at least 4 lengths.
.



Does that make SB the best 3 YO or is he eliminated as he only ran
in Ca? I would suggest no, as he soundly beat older horses in the
Awesome Again stakes, including several Baffert horses.

Coupled with winning seven straight races (in CA) and actually coming
back in the Classic despite the debacle at the gate, makes me think
he again gets serious consideration as the best 3y0 should he romp
in the Malibu Stakes.. If he loses , my hopes for revenge are eliminated.

Hoping what comes around goes around.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Immanuel Kant]

I'm wondering what good ol' Bob will have up his sleeve today for Shared Belief. He's sent an armada out in the Malibu

[Tom]

Yeah, a mob entry?

I think 3YO honors should be limited to 3yo races.
CC dominate in those.

Bayern had two advantages 00 no legitimate older horses in the Classic and most of the 3yos wiped out by him at the break.

A split makes perfect sense to me.

But, the whole HOY of crap is just that - crap.
Adds nothing to the pools - it is just insider party-excuse for the rich to rattle their jewelry.

It's a lot like the restaurant having employee of the month....great, the kids gets to park in front, but do I get an extra shrimp or a free drink out of it?

[burnsy]

[The reason I posted this comment is that good ol' Bob must be sensing
Bayern is endangered as best 3 YO and/or horse of the year
DUE to the gate incident, which at any other track in the US
would be an automatic DQ regardless of winning the Classic.

His glib analysis of the Classic immediately after the race and yesterday
lead me to believe he may be taking heat from his owner(s) and certainly
has from the press. I just looked at the Thorograph sheets, if SB run to his numbers he wins for fun, ie by at least 4 lengths.
.



Does that make SB the best 3 YO or is he eliminated as he only ran
in Ca? I would suggest no, as he soundly beat older horses in the
Awesome Again stakes, including several Baffert horses.

Coupled with winning seven straight races (in CA) and actually coming
back in the Classic despite the debacle at the gate, makes me think
he again gets serious consideration as the best 3y0 should he romp
in the Malibu Stakes.. If he loses , my hopes for revenge are eliminated.

Hoping what comes around goes around.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I totally agree with him on SB. I don't care how many you win in a row, that horse never ran in a really big race until the Classic. His biggest win was on poly and racing out there all season is a good way to avoid the heavy hitters. I don't even think Baffert is worried about that horse getting anything. His statements clearly are aimed at Cali Chrome.....because he senses its a done deal.....which it pretty much is. Bayern is going to have to get votes over the Derby winner, Preakness winner and a horse that dominated the California 3yo's out there. Don't under estimate Baffert he knows where this is going and they are not going to vote SB over Bayern when one of them never left the state.........the 7 wins are impressive but it doesn't come close to the competition the other two faced. Bayern and Cali Chrome could of took the easier route......but they didn't. My guess and Baffert guess is that this is a two horse race and due to the controversy, his horse is losing out. It was not a cheap shot against SB, its the truth. The other two could of beat those older slugs any day of the week. Its so thin out there many of them are grade 3 anyway. He knows where this is going, plus, the other horse won on grass like a hero after the BC. Did you guys hear the crowd that day? California Chrome is in the drivers seat and he knows it. I think SB will be a distant 3rd. Sheets or not, you gotta race out of the comfort zone and then win....and then get a good fig. The other two did that in the biggest races, multiple times.

[Frost king]

What amazes me, in the Super Bowl, if the winning TD is scored on a missed call, or with the help of a bad call, everyone moves on and crowns the champion. Only horse racing fails to move on. Bayern beat everyone including the best filly/mare when he handed Untapable her ass in the Haskell. Beat California Chrome twice. So the race at Saratoga, is held against him, while the horses that beat him that day are classified as one dimensional NY racetrack only runners? He gets interfered with in the Preakness, by Ria Antonia, but nobody cared because he was not expected to be part of the finish. Maybe if he did get his chance to run his race, California Chrome does not win? So everybody gets to call a mulligan on their losses, but Baffert and his charge are held accountable for every race they ran? If California Chrome had faced any type of legit grass horse that day, he would have also had his ass handed to him. To declare that one horse ran a better fig than the winner is poppycock! They run the races for a reason! Like my grandfather use to say, "The ball is round, that is why the games are played." The winner without question is Bayern, he beat the best filly/mare, the early season leader in California Chrome, he beat all the older horses in the Classic, and the best horse that the Arabs could throw at him in Toast of New York. Who has beat more than him? Can you list the accomplishments of his contemporaries?

[burnsy]

I kind of agree with you Frost King. HOY is a popularity contest if you look at some of the results. I like to bet, if I could bet on it......I would hammer California Chrome. I've seen the surveys and the internet buzz. Some of the people that vote will be on the bandwagon too. It looks like a cinch from here....and I think Baffert feels it too. Why would he run his mouth with some cockamamie outcome? He smells the coffee just like I do. I think Moreno's one dimension is the track out there, that's the part about Bayern I don't like. When that horse gets the shaft....Bayern got a pass.

[NY BRED]

not attempting to argue which horse deserves best 3 year old,
one final question before the Malibu Stakes;

Had SB slammed into Bayern and won the Classic, would Bayern
still be in the running for Best 3 Yr old, and/or would the vote
be "too close to call".

If the answer is debatable ,I rest my case that SB deserves strong consideration for best 3 Year old simply because of the gate incident.


Hopefully I don't get to eat these words later on :eek:

[bisket]

I have a problem anytime a horse is considered for HOY when they haven't dominated their own division. There was an unwritten rule that to win top honors you had to dominate your division. I don't think it's more important for a mare or filly to win the classic or any other open race for older horses, than winning their own division. The herd isn't anywhere large enough to cover all the "championship" races today. I've watched connections avoid running against other runners just as good as them in their own division to run in open races that were much more "difficult" to win. I think in the case of this years contenders for the honor, you have to go with the runner that has the best 3 year old resume.

I know there was a time when a 3 year old had to prove himself against older runners to win HOY, but I don't think you can give that aspect as much weight as you might have in to 1970's and 80's. The game has changed. Horses are bred specifically to win the the preps for the Triple Crown, and don't have a chance in hell at lasting that last 1/4 mile. Prior to the 1990's, you didn't even need to "qualify" to run in the derby. It makes a big difference in how a horse is trained up to the derby. If you're a legitimate classically bred runner, you have a much more difficult time in a 1 1/8 mile race these days. There are a host of milers in the three year old division that are just better than a classically bred horse at a 1 1/8 mile. I think the winners of the Triple Crown races are over the top much earlier today because of what they have to go through to win those races. I think you gotta give them a bit of a mulligan when it comes to the fall races. Chrome would get my vote...

[letswastemoney]

Mike Smith is politicking for Shared Belief. Shameless plug for my news article.

https://www.ladyandthetrack.com/news/10806/shared-belief-makes-eclipse-push-malibu-win.html

I'll post here the most interesting quote from Mike Smith that I got from the official SA press release.

“This race proved what a great horse he is, just by doing what he did. To run route races, then to come back to seven eighths against top sprinters … To me, that puts a big feather in his cap and puts him in front for Horse of the Year. I think this put him ahead of the rest.”

[bisket]

Mike Smith is politicking for Shared Belief. Shameless plug for my news article.

https://www.ladyandthetrack.com/news/10806/shared-belief-makes-eclipse-push-malibu-win.html

I'll post here the most interesting quote from Mike Smith that I got from the official SA press release.

“This race proved what a great horse he is, just by doing what he did. To run route races, then to come back to seven eighths against top sprinters … To me, that puts a big feather in his cap and puts him in front for Horse of the Year. I think this put him ahead of the rest.”

As far as winning a race at 1 1/4 miles and winning at 7/8's; I do agree with Smith. That's not an easy thing to accomplish today as it was historically. I still don't think Shared Belief should win though...

[chadk66]

In this age I don't think you can crown a class champ or horse of the year to a horse that hasn't raced outside of his home state. SB is a great horse. But he may not be a great horse after being shipped.

[Stillriledup]

What amazes me, in the Super Bowl, if the winning TD is scored on a missed call, or with the help of a bad call, everyone moves on and crowns the champion. Only horse racing fails to move on. Bayern beat everyone including the best filly/mare when he handed Untapable her ass in the Haskell. Beat California Chrome twice. So the race at Saratoga, is held against him, while the horses that beat him that day are classified as one dimensional NY racetrack only runners? He gets interfered with in the Preakness, by Ria Antonia, but nobody cared because he was not expected to be part of the finish. Maybe if he did get his chance to run his race, California Chrome does not win? So everybody gets to call a mulligan on their losses, but Baffert and his charge are held accountable for every race they ran? If California Chrome had faced any type of legit grass horse that day, he would have also had his ass handed to him. To declare that one horse ran a better fig than the winner is poppycock! They run the races for a reason! Like my grandfather use to say, "The ball is round, that is why the games are played." The winner without question is Bayern, he beat the best filly/mare, the early season leader in California Chrome, he beat all the older horses in the Classic, and the best horse that the Arabs could throw at him in Toast of New York. Who has beat more than him? Can you list the accomplishments of his contemporaries?


RkSPINuBrO4