Turf Paradise trainer question

[highnote]

Anyone know much about the trainer Robertino Diodoro. He looks like a pretty astute claiming trainer. His win percentage is about 37% this year. I notice that after his horses get claimed they don't seem to do as well for the new trainers.

Any thoughts on what some of the differences are between the way barns manage their horses.

[cj]

Anyone know much about the trainer Robertino Diodoro. He looks like a pretty astute claiming trainer. His win percentage is about 37% this year. I notice that after his horses get claimed they don't seem to do as well for the new trainers.

Any thoughts on what some of the differences are between the way barns manage their horses.

There are Diodoro's at virtually every track in the US.

[highnote]

There are Diodoro's at virtually every track in the US.


He was 25% on the year, which is not astronomically high, but he's 37% at the meet.

Michael Dickinson was about a 35% trainer, but he almost always entered his horses where they could win.

So maybe Diodoro operates like Dale Baird used to -- he buys good stock and then puts them in races where they can easily win. Maybe the trainers who claim his horses try to move them up over their heads?

Would be interested to know if anyone has insights into him.

[aliancia]

He sometimes plays a little fast and loose with the rules.



Trainer Robertino Diodoro has been fined $3,000 and suspended 15 days as part of a stipulated agreement with the California Horse Racing Board after one of his horses tested in excess of the permitted level of total carbon dioxide here in January.

Diodoro’s suspension began on Monday and continues through May 6. He was suspended for 30 days, but the final 15 days of the suspension were stayed provided that Diodoro, 39, does not have a positive for medications in classes 1, 2, or 3 through April 21, 2014.

The overage was found in a post-race test taken from Apply, who finished fifth in the fifth race on Jan. 21 for $7,000 to $8,000 claimers.
Apply finished 12 1/2 lengths behind race winner Big Wags, and had a post-race test of total carbon dioxide of 39.55 millimoles per liter of plasma. The permitted level is 37 millimoles.


http://www.drf.com/news/fire-near-santa-anita-forces-machowsky-evacuate-home

[castaway01]

He was 25% on the year, which is not astronomically high, but he's 37% at the meet.

Michael Dickinson was about a 35% trainer, but he almost always entered his horses where they could win.

So maybe Diodoro operates like Dale Baird used to -- he buys good stock and then puts them in races where they can easily win. Maybe the trainers who claim his horses try to move them up over their heads?

Would be interested to know if anyone has insights into him.

Source?

[highnote]

Source?


Memory.

I'll see if I can find some old past performances.

[aliancia]

In the U.S., Dickinson was a 23 percent trainer (587 wins from 2,538 starters).


http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=T&eID=20145

[bello]

I hit TP a few times a year.. Diodoro brings in strings from a number of tracks with many from SoCal outclassing the TP regulars. His horses always look great in the paddock and he has a staff of folks that wet the horses down in what can be very hot weather for the horses. Just seems like a real pro.

[cj]

He was 25% on the year, which is not astronomically high, but he's 37% at the meet.

Michael Dickinson was about a 35% trainer, but he almost always entered his horses where they could win.

So maybe Diodoro operates like Dale Baird used to -- he buys good stock and then puts them in races where they can easily win. Maybe the trainers who claim his horses try to move them up over their heads?

Would be interested to know if anyone has insights into him.

He percentages are vastly different in SoCal and in New Mexico. He frequently has big move ups, and those that claim from him aren't overly ambitious in my opinion. Maybe he is just better, I don't know. But these guys are everywhere, and many seem to crop up out of nowhere.

[highnote]

Source?

Dickinson was a 32% trainer in 2001 -- so maybe that's where I got that number.

In any case, Dickinson had a very good win percentage -- not as good as Diodoro, though.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=T&eID=20145#ranking

[Stillriledup]

Dickinson was a 32% trainer in 2001 -- so maybe that's where I got that number.

In any case, Dickinson had a very good win percentage -- not as good as Diodoro, though.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=T&eID=20145#ranking

Didn't Dickinson have many less starters? Its much harder to obtain a high percentage with a lot of starters.

[castaway01]

Dickinson was a 32% trainer in 2001 -- so maybe that's where I got that number.

In any case, Dickinson had a very good win percentage -- not as good as Diodoro, though.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=T&eID=20145#ranking

He just seemed like a weird example of a 35% trainer, though he did have one season over 30% long, long ago. Very good trainer, hay/oats/water/tapeta and all that.

Diodoro has almost nothing in common with Dickinson other than they both train(ed) horses.

[Stillriledup]

He just seemed like a weird example of a 35% trainer, though he did have one season over 30% long, long ago. Very good trainer, hay/oats/water/tapeta and all that.

Diodoro has almost nothing in common with Dickinson other than they both train(ed) horses.

And both last names start with D. :ThmbUp:

[highnote]

Didn't Dickinson have many less starters? Its much harder to obtain a high percentage with a lot of starters.


He would only have a couple hundred starts or less per year. Seemed like he focused on stakes and high level allowance races.

I do recall that he ran a very nice filly in an approx. $25,000 turf claiming race at Belmont and Jerry Bailey was the jockey.

She won easily. I was in the winner's circle after the race because my friend was managing the horse. Bailey got off the filly and scolded my friend for putting the horse at such a low level. He said, "Don't ever race her at that level again."

But that was Dickinson's decision. He wanted to win.

[Robert Fischer]

He percentages are vastly different in SoCal and in New Mexico. He frequently has big move ups, and those that claim from him aren't overly ambitious in my opinion. Maybe he is just better, I don't know. But these guys are everywhere, and many seem to crop up out of nowhere.

Plays classical music in the barn.

[Stillriledup]

Plays classical music in the barn.

Barry Abrams used to (or still does) but a little music box in the "rabbit" ears on his horses, i thought i heard that somewhere.

[taxicab]

Diodoro does the one thing that stamps him a "creepbarn".....he dopes em to get them off the vets list.
Didn't he have a sneaky supertrainer run earlier in the year......SRU ?

[highnote]

How does doping a horse get it off the vets list?

Don't know about his streak at SRU. I'm just learning about him.

[taxicab]

How does doping a horse get it off the vets list?

Don't know about his streak at SRU. I'm just learning about him.

"Blockers".

[aliancia]

How does doping a horse get it off the vets list?

Don't know about his streak at SRU. I'm just learning about him.


Load him up with Flunixin (not really doping but not legal, either) before the get-off-the-list work.

Trainer Robertino Diodoro, who worked the horse LT Reckless for removal from the Veterinarian?s List on June 15, 2014, is fined FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500.00)* for violation of California Horse Racing Board rules #1843 (a) and (d) (Medication, Drugs, and Other Substances) #1844 (Authorized Medication ? 26.1 ng/ml Flunixin) pursuant to California Horse Racing Board rule #1887 (Trainer to Insure Condition of Horse).

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RRReport=28097&moveto=10&recount=10&EPID=46290&L=Diodoro&M=%20&F=Robertino&clearsearch=YES

[Stillriledup]

Load him up with Flunixin (not really doping but not legal, either) before the get-off-the-list work.

Trainer Robertino Diodoro, who worked the horse LT Reckless for removal from the Veterinarian?s List on June 15, 2014, is fined FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500.00)* for violation of California Horse Racing Board rules #1843 (a) and (d) (Medication, Drugs, and Other Substances) #1844 (Authorized Medication ? 26.1 ng/ml Flunixin) pursuant to California Horse Racing Board rule #1887 (Trainer to Insure Condition of Horse).

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RRReport=28097&moveto=10&recount=10&EPID=46290&L=Diodoro&M=%20&F=Robertino&clearsearch=YES

When you see this type of cheating, you have to wonder what other cheating is going on with this barn.

[highnote]

Source?

Here are some Dickinson stats:

Michael was champion trainer for the first time in 1981-82 and won 84 races at a strike-rate of 45 per cent (an astonishing 56 per cent for his chasers).

Poplar House [Dickinson stable] enjoyed an annus mirabilis in 1982-83, a historic season that exhausted all superlatives and ended with a tally of 120 wins (at the time a British 20th-century jumps record) at a strike-rate of 46 per cent.


http://www.tapeta.com/trainer.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_W._Dickinson

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Vital+cog+in+a+family+who+graced+the+sport+for+two +decades%3B+DEATH+OF...-a0181396483

[maclr11]

Not as much as you think.

It really isn't hard to win races when you have the best and quite often the two best horses in the race everytime you lead them over.

You take any of the California barns and bring them over to Tup, CBY and Northlands they will win races in bunches too.

It doesn't hurt he is very well financed with rich Alberta guys. Oil, restaurant, cattle owners. They spend money freely and want to win races.

They recently went out and spent some good money buying some nicer horses, trying to turn the operation from massive claiming operation into a well rounded barn with some quality stakes animals.

He also picked up Mercedes Stables as a client. This is another well funded operation with well bred horses. Some of those horses run at TuP and look really good doing it.

At the last Santa Anita meet Diodoro went 3 for 25. Which is 12% not exactly a world beater. He is good at LRC and can win races at the big SoCal meets but hes not Dorf or Baffert or Miller yet.

He has some really nice animals currently though.
Storm Power, Broadway Empire, Omar among others.

He also employs some good young assistants, two of the ones I know are both 30 percent trainers on their own right when they are out on their own.

So hire good people, be well funded and flexible to spend money. Run horses for less than they are worth against inferior competition, its a good combination to win a lot of races.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Robertino has always been a weird study to me and I've come to the conclusion that a lot of his success is more a reflection of what Turf Paradise has devolved into rather than some sort of indictment against him or acclaim for him.

Mac lays it out pretty straightforwardly and there's not much in there to debate. But, he's been running in Phoenix longer than the last few years. When he first started attending the meet, he was a much smaller operation but still ran what on paper appeared to be quality stock and did so rather aggressively. And he didn't win much.

When Keith Bennett departed and, as Mac alluded to, left behind some talented kids on their own right that had worked for him - Robertino very wisely incorporated them into his operation. At this time, his operation grew and became more diverse, allowing him to be even more aggressive than ever. And he took advantage of it. But still, the horses looked better and they sure as hell ran better. Robertino isn't a Johnny-come-lately to the scene, he's been doing this forever and successfully on his own turf - but he got REALLY good at Turf Paradise after years of mediocrity at best, almost all at once.

It's easy to read between those lines and assume the implication is that he found a magic genie. Really, I think what happened is that a whole bunch of guys that had perennially been adequate-at-best trainers suddenly leaped in stature.

Why? Turf Paradise essentially ran most everyone off that didn't worship at the altar of a clown. Going back a few years, the level of discontent was teeming and if you dared contradict the genius that has dragged the track into the abyss, you were more or less told to clam up or pack up.

The meet had long been supported by small barns and a lot of casual old-timer types that showed up year after year almost as a fun hobby. Turf Paradise - and when I say Turf Paradise, I mean the self-absorbed, deluded dingaling that owns the joint - ran these people off. There was little to no fun left to be had. You couldn't even make it until the second hour of training without this little Napoleonic half-baked quasi-businessman ranting at you about leaving the shedrow lights on forty seconds after sun-up or one of his delegates out enforcing some asinine edict designed only to show "who was in charge."

So, between the lack of any fun for those that worked because they once enjoyed it and the lack of any future for those that worked because they needed income thanks to one brilliant management policy after another - people split or shrank or some combination of the two.

Now, instead of being the guy with nice horses that was filling races for other people with nice horses more often than not - Robertino is the guy that is having races filled for him. He's on the other end of the equation.

Who are the other big barns now? Jeff Metz? Molly Pearson, if she decides to run anything other than stakes eligible babies?

If the Canadians couldn't make it across the border, there would be about 400 horses on the backside and half of those are probably quarter horses.

Those are the terms under which Robertino has always done well. He has no real local competition anymore. The place is a joke. A half-dozen years ago I yelled that he (His Highness Mr. President) wouldn't be happy until they couldn't fill a race because Bennett and Hill and Mills and the big dogs of the past wouldn't run against one another nine times a day and they'd be the only ones left with any stock.

Well, it didn't work out that way. None of those guys even train anymore. But the principal is more or less in effect. Who is going to outrun him in any given race on any given day? The rest of the backside is now there simply to fill races for him.

To summarize - Robertino has gotten better in a lot of ways. Turf Paradise has gotten a lot worse in a lot of ways. There's my answer.

[Stillriledup]

Mac and JHS great posts, great info.

[JohnGalt1]

Robertino and Ness have similar operations. They have many horses of all classes, and run them where they can win, either at the proper class or even one or 2 levels lower so they have a better chance to win. And because of having many horses are not afraid of being claimed from.

[rastajenk]

His record of rulings against him is unusual. During the 2013-14 TuP meet, he has a string of fines for "refusing to have his horse treated with Lasix," prompting late scratches and refunds. I haven't seen that one before. He also has some anger management issues, and has caused some scratches for not having owners licensed. I don't know nothing about his horsemanship skills, but he seems to have problems with the simplest of normal racetrack regulations.

[cj]

None of the explanations really explain the big move ups and lack of any success whatsoever when moving away from his barn. I don't have time today, but I'll find a few examples later this week. It won't take long.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...During the 2013-14 TuP meet, he has a string of fines for "refusing to have his horse treated with Lasix," prompting late scratches and refunds. ...

This is almost always a horse that was entered a second time; a better spot appears in the extras and now the horse is in back to back days or something. The stews won't let you out of the first race. So, you refuse to receive lasix, they have to scratch the horse, you pay the fine and run the next day in the better spot. Just another case (for SRU...ha) of rules that work better on paper than in every other application.

[johnhannibalsmith]

None of the explanations really explain the big move ups and lack of any success whatsoever when moving away from his barn. I don't have time today, but I'll find a few examples later this week. It won't take long.

Thanks, I'd be interested in that. I've never really considered him the sort of guy that pulls off that move but I don't have the data and my perspective is clouded by a time when just the opposite was true at TuP.

[highnote]

The handicapping I do at other tracks does not translate to Turf Paradise, so I'm trying to figure out what I need to do differently in order to win there.

Diodoro is one of those trainers that when I bet their horses I lose and when I don't bet their horses they win. So I have to bet them most of the time or skip the race.

Dale Baird at Mountaineer used to be like that.

There was a trainer in NY about 10 years ago like that, too. He eventually got banned, but then after a few years started running in KY. His name escapes me -- John something.

So I don't know if it would help to pay more attention to trainers at TP or maybe pay more attention to the subtleties of class. Speed and pace figures and form don't seem to be the best solution.

[bello]

Wait for the spring and load up on Dan Macfarline 2 year olds.

[Stillriledup]

The handicapping I do at other tracks does not translate to Turf Paradise, so I'm trying to figure out what I need to do differently in order to win there.

Diodoro is one of those trainers that when I bet their horses I lose and when I don't bet their horses they win. So I have to bet them most of the time or skip the race.

Dale Baird at Mountaineer used to be like that.

There was a trainer in NY about 10 years ago like that, too. He eventually got banned, but then after a few years started running in KY. His name escapes me -- John something.

So I don't know if it would help to pay more attention to trainers at TP or maybe pay more attention to the subtleties of class. Speed and pace figures and form don't seem to be the best solution.

Don't bet his horses, ever. Either bet against him, or skip the race if he looks unbeatable. He's never going to be value, he's never going to pay 10-1 on a horse at TuP that looks like it can win, the way to beat the game at these places is to bet against the overbet humans. I do the same thing with Russell Baze in No Cal. I rarely if ever bet Russell, i'm always looking for situations when he's either on a horse that's not very good or he "chooses against" a horse i think is better than the one he picked.

If you don't ever bet Dee Oh Door Oh, you won't be in this zig zag pattern of being on the wrong side.

[highnote]

Don't bet his horses, ever. Either bet against him, or skip the race if he looks unbeatable. He's never going to be value, he's never going to pay 10-1 on a horse at TuP that looks like it can win, the way to beat the game at these places is to bet against the overbet humans. I do the same thing with Russell Baze in No Cal. I rarely if ever bet Russell, i'm always looking for situations when he's either on a horse that's not very good or he "chooses against" a horse i think is better than the one he picked.

If you don't ever bet Dee Oh Door Oh, you won't be in this zig zag pattern of being on the wrong side.


This makes sense. Thanks!

[Stillriledup]

This makes sense. Thanks!

Look at it this way. He's winning 4 out of 10, so 6 out of 10 are losers....and plenty of those 6 out of 10 are favorites, seems like he's basically the favorite every race, your job is to sniff out which 6 out of 10 are losers because by definition, at least 6 out of 10 lose. Stay focused on that part, start off looking to beat him and if you feel you can't, just stay away.

[maclr11]

I disagree you can make money with and against Diodoro.

1. You can use him as keys in multi-race wagers. A key is never going to hurt your value.

2. Look for horses in higher level races at Tup. He tends to get bet less heavy in the higher open claimers, allowance races and MOC's/stakes. Horses like Storm Power and Dakota Mac come to mind for recent winners that had good value.

3. Sometimes value can be found when he has two horses in the race. If you like the second one at all, the value should be there.

4. Diodoro gets overbet in the bottom open claiming ranks, a lot of those horses can be beatable.

That's my gambling opinion on the situation

[Stillriledup]

I disagree you can make money with and against Diodoro.

1. You can use him as keys in multi-race wagers. A key is never going to hurt your value.

2. Look for horses in higher level races at Tup. He tends to get bet less heavy in the higher open claimers, allowance races and MOC's/stakes. Horses like Storm Power and Dakota Mac come to mind for recent winners that had good value.

3. Sometimes value can be found when he has two horses in the race. If you like the second one at all, the value should be there.

4. Diodoro gets overbet in the bottom open claiming ranks, a lot of those horses can be beatable.

That's my gambling opinion on the situation

I think you can't find value on him in all but the most rare instances simply because all his horses take SOME money just because its him. So, essentially, you have gamblers betting on Diodoro and not the horse. I like to bet on horses where the only money on that horse's back is due to the horse (or, most of it anyway).

To me, its not worth trying to sift out the 1 occasion out 100 where Diodoro is an "overlay" because i can spend my time better on betting against him.

Also, when a supertrainer like this is an overlay, you have to beware, that's not a trainer i want to bet a DOB horse.

Now, if you make money betting ON him, keep doing it, its just not something i'm good enough to do or WANT to do. I'd rather beat the guy, its more fun sticking it to "the man" as well as getting nice value on other runners trained by "Joe Blow".

[cj]

The ones I see that I don't mind playing against are those with established "Diordoro" form that don't look good in paper. As maclr11 says, this is often in cheap claimers.

This actually goes for most super trainers though, it is the new acquisitions that I either play on, key, or sit out. I won't go against them.

[maclr11]

Value is value. Everyone has favorite trainers and jockeys they bet. Everyone takes some money for being who they are.
I know a guy who bets Nakatani, no matter what he rides.

Yes Diodoro takes more of this money, but there are times when he is ignored too.

The last two days at Turf. Diodoro is 4 out of 5.
I was quite happy getting the win prices on Dakota Mac and Spirit of Joy.

It's not impossible to make money with him, you just cant get in the habitat of saying you either pass the race or bet against him. Just like Ness you can make money with these guys, it just takes some creativity.

[Stillriledup]

Value is value. Everyone has favorite trainers and jockeys they bet. Everyone takes some money for being who they are.
I know a guy who bets Nakatani, no matter what he rides.

Yes Diodoro takes more of this money, but there are times when he is ignored too.

The last two days at Turf. Diodoro is 4 out of 5.
I was quite happy getting the win prices on Dakota Mac and Spirit of Joy.

It's not impossible to make money with him, you just cant get in the habitat of saying you either pass the race or bet against him. Just like Ness you can make money with these guys, it just takes some creativity.

But if you can only bet against him and pass when he looks good, and you make money, you're doing it the right way. Same holds true if you're showing a profit betting ON him. There's no wrong way to win.

CJ is also right that you want to bet against the horses that have been D OH DOOR OH for the longest time that seem to be flatlining, that way, its pretty likely that horse has already shown the best that RD can get out of her.....with new acquisitions, you never know how much they can improve.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The ones I see that I don't mind playing against are those with established "Diordoro" form that don't look good in paper. As maclr11 says, this is often in cheap claimers.

...

Absolutely. His horrible non-threes that have been horrible non-threes for eleven months still get bet hard more often than not by default in a field of horrible non-threes. The other one Mac hit on that seems without thinking too hard to be an often winning move is the "other" horse in a race where he has a pair uncoupled.

All in all his overwhelming presence every day makes the races harder to play, but it would be embellishing to say that there's no way to play any race he's in.

[Stillriledup]

Third race today still unofficial at TuP.

Why?

Photo for 4th.

:lol:

[Clocker]

Third race today still unofficial at TuP.

Why?

Photo for 4th.

:lol:

Will the winner in the 4th race also get 4th place purse money for the 3rd? :confused:

[bello]

Not sure the no value on Diodoro thinking holds. Race 7 and race 8 today he had very obvious winners and the DD paid $22. There was no need to even spread to hit this very obvious number. Value can still be had.

[Ruffian1]

Anyone know much about the trainer Robertino Diodoro. He looks like a pretty astute claiming trainer. His win percentage is about 37% this year. I notice that after his horses get claimed they don't seem to do as well for the new trainers.

Any thoughts on what some of the differences are between the way barns manage their horses.

There are positives and there are positives.

There is no place in the game for "carbon dioxide" positives. Period!

High levels of tCO2 in certain horses is the mask that trainers with positives stand behind.

And I guess it has happened somewhere, sometime. But that can be tested for at a later date if higher than normal levels do exist or if the horses metabolism is quite odd. Extremely rare to say the least but I won't rule it out.

With that said, and having started over 7,000 horses in my day and my mentor starting over 18,000 horses in his day, and no carbon dioxide positives. And we both won our share. Not that I could hold a candle to him.

How about that. I guess we were just lucky. Or played the game the right way.

[Stillriledup]

Is it my imagination, or is the picture really DARk at this place today? I'm pretty sure i don't need a new monitor. Worst signal feed ever, so grainy, dark and awful, what is this, 1970?

[Stillriledup]

Fransisco Miramahdi was singing the praises of Dee Oh Door Oh today at Oaklawn, you know, how good of a trainer he is.

This guy is at Oaklawn now?

[HUSKER55]

but above normal tco2 doesn't necessarily mean the trainer is guilty of any corruption does it?

between feed additives and furisomide that could off balance the levels couldn't it?


just guessing.

[maclr11]

Fransisco Miramahdi was singing the praises of Dee Oh Door Oh today at Oaklawn, you know, how good of a trainer he is.

This guy is at Oaklawn now?


5 for 15 most of them with expensive well bred Mercedes horses.

Pretty nice start for him at the new meet.

[ReplayRandall]

5 for 15 most of them with expensive well bred Mercedes horses.

Pretty nice start for him at the new meet.
Just as things are going well for Diodoro, this happens:
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/diodoro-suspended-15-days-for-turf-paradise-fluphenazine-positive/

[Ruffian1]

Just as things are going well for Diodoro, this happens:
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/diodoro-suspended-15-days-for-turf-paradise-fluphenazine-positive/


"This is the fifth medication violation since 2013 for Diodoro, according to OwnerView.com. "

Unreal !

What a clown.

[maclr11]

"This is the fifth medication violation since 2013 for Diodoro, according to OwnerView.com. "

Unreal !

What a clown.


Read the actual ruling. It's more to blame on the farm manager and the vet than anyone.

[cj]

Read the actual ruling. It's more to blame on the farm manager and the vet than anyone.

Yeah, but we always hear that, tough to know when it is really true and when it isn't.

[chadk66]

that's the risk you take when your just a racing mill having horses come in and out from all over. just a matter of time before this happens. I could never run my barn like that.

[Stillriledup]

Read the actual ruling. It's more to blame on the farm manager and the vet than anyone.

When you are a "supertrainer" you have little wiggle room to convince people these were just honest mistakes. If you're 2 for 100 and you say its a mistake, people believe you.

[Ruffian1]

Read the actual ruling. It's more to blame on the farm manager and the vet than anyone.


I beg to differ.

5 bad tests in 14 months. This one is one of those.

Above that, any trainer worth a quarter, make that a nickle, gets EVERY record for EVERY horse they acquire from the farm.

If they don't, they are an idiot.

Really getting sick of trainers playing dumb to simple procedure.

I received 100's of horses from other trainers and, or farms and ran them within 60 days. Never a blemish. Just lucky? No way.

Simple business sense and a simple business model.

And that's that.

I stand by my comment.