NYRA Raising Prices

[SandyW]

Raising the prices on group sales and increasing the cost of parking.
Is this is the answer to bringing more people out to the track?
One question, are these people brain dead??

[SandyW]

NYRA to increase prices, simulcast fees in 2015

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-increase-prices-simulcast-fees-2015

[Tom]

Stock up on coffee now!

[whodoyoulike]

Why not just bring a large thermos??

[Stillriledup]

Why not just bring a large thermos??

Or start following another circuit.

[EMD4ME]

As a NYRA fan , I am embarrassed and repulsed. I hear nothing about improving the product. All I hear is raise prices to offset a 3% reduction in handle.

Why not do things to avoid a 3% reduction in handle?

All I hear is reduce dates at Aqueduct. Why not do things to make NYRA the place to be for horsemen in the winter so winter racing can thrive and be profitable without cutting dates?

[Stillriledup]

As a NYRA fan , I am embarrassed and repulsed. I hear nothing about improving the product. All I hear is raise prices to offset a 3% reduction in handle.

Why not do things to avoid a 3% reduction in handle?

All I hear is reduce dates at Aqueduct. Why not do things to make NYRA the place to be for horsemen in the winter so winter racing can thrive and be profitable without cutting dates?

Its bad business to not try and address the actual problem and just pass the cost onto the consumer while fat cat higher ups get paid lots of money to sit around and blame the weather or the economy.

How about not letting David Jacobson enter 2 horses in every race and then pick and choose which one will run 3 days after entries are taken. Who's to say that a small tweak like that won't help betting handle? Bettors can prepare bets the night before and not have to worry about that nonsense, so theres a small thing they can "tweak" to increase handle. There are lot of other things that can be done to help handle, charging ridiculous amounts of money for coffee isnt' one of them.

[EMD4ME]

If I were hired as 'racing manager', handle and bottom line revenue would be UP year over year guaranteed. If I fail, they can fire me. I'll work for a small base with everything based upon commission . Commission would be based on higher handle, profitability and net profit.

They'll never hire anyone of merit to grow the game. Not NYRA's fault. It's all the Governor's fault. Even when NYRA's board removes the Cuomo cronie majority, they will still be handcuffed by Cuomo. Not technically but informally.

It's hopeless.

They will burn NY horse racing to the ground.

I sincerely hope the horsemen somehow have political clout and screw over the Cuomo cronies somehow someway.

[Stillriledup]

If I were hired as 'racing manager', handle and bottom line revenue would be UP year over year guaranteed. If I fail, they can fire me. I'll work for a small base with everything based upon commission . Commission would be based on higher handle, profitability and net profit.

They'll never hire anyone of merit to grow the game. Not NYRA's fault. It's all the Governor's fault. Even when NYRA's board removes the Cuomo cronie majority, they will still be handcuffed by Cuomo. Not technically but informally.

It's hopeless.

They will burn NY horse racing to the ground.

I sincerely hope the horsemen somehow have political clout and screw over the Cuomo cronies somehow someway.

Taking Cuomo out of the equasion, isnt' this generally a problem with ALL tracks? Don't all tracks seem to have some problem with finding out how to grow the game?

[dilanesp]

As a NYRA fan , I am embarrassed and repulsed. I hear nothing about improving the product. All I hear is raise prices to offset a 3% reduction in handle.

Why not do things to avoid a 3% reduction in handle?

All I hear is reduce dates at Aqueduct. Why not do things to make NYRA the place to be for horsemen in the winter so winter racing can thrive and be profitable without cutting dates?

It isn't exactly like winter racing in New York ever made a ton of sense compared to, for instance, Florida.

But having said that, to me this is the flip side of the Del Mar situation. NYRA can certainly charge a lot for Saratoga, but given they can't get more than a couple of thousand people to come to the track most of the year, they really should be cutting prices at the other 2 tracks, not raising them.

[alydar]

3% reduction in handle would appear very optimistic to me. As we have discussed handle is down substantially from last year recently. I think the 3% is only considering fewer races in 2015 and not the overall reduction in handle we have seen lately.

[ronsmac]

3% reduction in handle would appear very optimistic to me. As we have discussed handle is down substantially from last year recently. I think the 3% is only considering fewer races in 2015 and not the overall reduction in handle we have seen lately.According
to Drf, nyra handle is down 58 million in 3 months. 15 - 20% seems like a more realistic projection.

[JustRalph]

I read somewhere that handle is down 58 million since Saratoga.........that's an incredible number for NYRA

If true......it's amazing.

We're starting to get to crunch time. I can only think that this is going to continue, in fact snowball. When choosing where to put your recreational money, why racing? Sitting through 50 races a day to find 2-3 to bet?

No way. This might not be the tipping point, but things are definately changing big time.

I can only imagine about ten other things to do with my money on any given day. For the first time in about 14 years I have spent only about $1000 bucks on racing this year. All at Lonestar Park. In 2002 i put 14k through the windows......there have been some bigger and smaller years in between, including a year where I jumped to just under 5k a month.....but ........ it's a been a nice slow slide............

[whodoyoulike]

3% reduction in handle would appear very optimistic to me. As we have discussed handle is down substantially from last year recently. I think the 3% is only considering fewer races in 2015 and not the overall reduction in handle we have seen lately.

I'm wondering if this is a PR spin or just maybe they haven't a clue. I'm wondering how mgmt. can approve their 2015 budget.

[Storm Cadet]

Next thing these guys at NYRA will do is forbid bringing in all food and beverages into NYRA tracks so they can force people to purchase their crappy food and warm beer.

[alydar]

I saw their handle numbers from the weekend and they looked OK, I am wondering how they compare to last year. Does anyone have that information?

[drib]

I saw their handle numbers from the weekend and they looked OK, I am wondering how they compare to last year. Does anyone have that information?

Here is NYRA handle update:

Sunday Nov. 23, 2014 ontrack: $1,019,190 total: $6,150,284
Sunday Nov. 24, 2013 cancelled

Wed. Nov. 26, 2014 $531,552 total 4,452,155
Wed. Nov. 27, 2013 cancelled

Thurs. Nov. 27, 2014 857,094 total: 5,068,297
Thurs. Nov. 28, 2013 819,239 total: 4,633640 No surprise Thanksgiving racing this year out-handled last year given the 2 prior day cancellations into holiday.

Friday Nov. 28, 2014 1,074,362 total: 7,773,043
Friday Nov. 29, 2013 1,072,145 total: 8,223,038

Sat Nov. 29, 2014 1,742,241 total: 11,229,278
Sat. Nov. 30, 2013 1,829,136 total: 12,772,690

Sun. Nov. 30, 2014 956,966 total: 5,7702,484
Sun. Dec. 1, 2013 1,111,106 total: 7,374,990

Today 494,026 total: 4,089,653
Last year Wed. Dec.4 815,886 total: 5,508,931

The NYRA numbers continue to plummet. Yes, there were off turf races this year (note: last year Friday was off turf also), but it just seems to me that there is more going on; in fact, with the current east coast simulcast dispute, I thought NYRA's #'s might pick up.

[Stillriledup]

If Macy's has a rack of shirts that nobody is buying, they usually LOWER the price.

But racing, they raise prices when things don't sell.

[Stillriledup]

Good point. Looks like some big players are passing on the signal.

Its alarming when you have a pretty good product (Cigar Mile day) and people are still saying "no thanks".

Time for some soul searching for the entire industry.

[alydar]

Here is NYRA handle update:

Sunday Nov. 23, 2014 ontrack: $1,019,190 total: $6,150,284
Sunday Nov. 24, 2013 cancelled

Wed. Nov. 26, 2014 $531,552 total 4,452,155
Wed. Nov. 27, 2013 cancelled

Thurs. Nov. 27, 2014 857,094 total: 5,068,297
Thurs. Nov. 28, 2013 819,239 total: 4,633640 No surprise Thanksgiving racing this year out-handled last year given the 2 prior day cancellations into holiday.

Friday Nov. 28, 2014 1,074,362 total: 7,773,043
Friday Nov. 29, 2013 1,072,145 total: 8,223,038 Juju

Sat Nov. 29, 2014 1,742,241 total: 11,229,278
Sat. Nov. 30, 2013 1,829,136 total: 12,772,690

Sun. Nov. 30, 2014 956,966 total: 5,7702,484
Sun. Dec. 1, 2013 1,111,106 total: 7,374,990

Today 494,026 total: 4,089,653
Last year Wed. Dec.4 815,886 total: 5,508,931

The NYRA numbers continue to plummet. Yes, there were off turf races this year (note: last year Friday was off turf also), but it just seems to me that there is more going on; in fact, with the current east coast simulcast dispute, I thought NYRA's #'s might pick up.

Must be some big players passing on the signal. Over the course of a year this will be a very significant number, if the trend continues.

[drib]

On NYRA's website today: "According to Kay, the operating profit was achieved in spite of numerous challenges, including severe weather and temporary, industry-wide drops in handle during the third quarter".

I wonder what these "temporary, industry-wide drops" mean? While NY had plenty of off the turf races, that does not apply industry wide.....and those drops have extended (and increased in the case of NYRA) in the fourth quarter.

[alydar]

On NYRA's website today: "According to Kay, the operating profit was achieved in spite of numerous challenges, including severe weather and temporary, industry-wide drops in handle during the third quarter".

I wonder what these "temporary, industry-wide drops" mean? While NY had plenty of off the turf races, that does not apply industry wide.....and those drops have extended (and increased in the case of NYRA) in the fourth quarter.

I saw that as well. It appears that they are not willing to discuss the details of the most recent shortfalls that you have pointed out. That cannot go on forever.
Look at the recently announced Del Mar numbers. It is not as simple as an industry wide problem.

[Stillriledup]

On NYRA's website today: "According to Kay, the operating profit was achieved in spite of numerous challenges, including severe weather and temporary, industry-wide drops in handle during the third quarter".

I wonder what these "temporary, industry-wide drops" mean? While NY had plenty of off the turf races, that does not apply industry wide.....and those drops have extended (and increased in the case of NYRA) in the fourth quarter.

Its just excuses, there's no "severe weather" ...every winter has some snow, ice, rain and wind, there's nothing different from this winter to the next, its all the same "bad weather" that you gotta man up and race in it and figure out a way to get the handle bigger and not sit around making excuses.

[whodoyoulike]

They've already committed to the reason for the drop off in handle. To change now would hint that they don't have a clue. Remember, this is a multi-million $ organization.

Is the NYRA funded by the NY taxpayers or are they an independent agency or self supported by take out?

[dilanesp]

I saw that as well. It appears that they are not willing to discuss the details of the most recent shortfalls that you have pointed out. That cannot go on forever.
Look at the recently announced Del Mar numbers. It is not as simple as an industry wide problem.

Del Mar's numbers are especially good when you consider (a) there's generally a horse shortage in Southern California in November and (b) Del Mar has a Polytrack, which a lot of sophisticated bettors supposedly don't like to play.

Those guys just really know what they are doing. I don't think NYRA does.

[SandyW]

Maybe if NYRA upgraded some of the facilities for the horseplayer instead of the facilities for the slot player, some of the crowd may come back.
Nobody really likes to lose their money in a pig sty.:bang:

[Robert Goren]

Get ready for more drops in handle as casino gambling gets a bigger foot hold in New York. Casino gambling has crushed handle where ever the two have tried to co-exist.
Where are the people who claimed that the handle would increase if they got higher purses with the aid of slot money? They seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

[tanner12oz]

How much money was lost when they invited 100k plus to Belmont in June then ran out of food, beverage, cell service and for everything still operational had lines a mile long making it impossible to spend money?

[thaskalos]

Get ready for more drops in handle as casino gambling gets a bigger foot hold in New York. Casino gambling has crushed handle where ever the two have tried to co-exist.
Where are the people who claimed that the handle would increase if they got higher purses with the aid of slot money? They seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

They claimed that the bigger purses would lead to bigger fields too. :rolleyes:

[classhandicapper]

They claimed that the bigger purses would lead to bigger fields too. :rolleyes:

I'm way against the casinos subsidizing the tracks on economic grounds, but I was in the camp that thought it would lead to bigger fields. It's hard to tell what's going on though because the foal crops have been down in general. So the field sizes might have been even be smaller without the larger purses at the casino tracks.

[EMD4ME]

So what exactly are the new signal fees that they will charge?

How much will that impact and reduce handle (as rebates are reduced by adws) ?

[GatetoWire]

Maybe if NYRA upgraded some of the facilities for the horseplayer instead of the facilities for the slot player, some of the crowd may come back.
Nobody really likes to lose their money in a pig sty.:bang:

You haven't been to Aqueduct recently have you?

I was there on Saturday for the first time in awhile. Place looks great. New paint everywhere, flat screen TVs everywhere. New seats inside.

The place is in great shape right now.

[SandyW]

You haven't been to Aqueduct recently have you?

I was there on Saturday for the first time in awhile. Place looks great. New paint everywhere, flat screen TVs everywhere. New seats inside.

The place is in great shape right now.

Maybe now is the time to run some TV ads showing any new upgrades.

[alydar]

Great to hear that the track is getting a makeover. Since I left the NY area I haven't seen it in over three years. Anything they can do to stimulate on track handle is good for their bottom line

Most of the handle comes from off site, so although I think it is fantastic that the track is getting attention, I am not sure it will impact overall handle that much.

I will say once again that NYRA still provides the best racing product out there. Whatever is driving their decline in handle has little to do with the price of coffee, hot dogs or the condition of their facilities. I suspect it is more of a battle of the whales against NYRA's signal fees.

[lamboguy]

with all these places that are losing handle these days, this concluded ZIA Park meet had over a 20% increase.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89044/zia-park-reports-record-all-sources-handle?source=rss

[Jeff P]

From the Bloodhorse.com article about Zia:
Average handle on-track for the meet was $44,691, a 4.7% increase from last year. Average handle off-track was $491,625, a 25.2% jump. Link: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89044/zia-park-reports-record-all-sources-handle#ixzz3KxGIJLTV

Is it possible that from a lower signal fee - better rebates - lower effective takeout standpoint ZIA became a more attractive signal for bettors relative to other signals 'managed' by Monarch and Churchill where signal fees went up and rebates went down?

In my opinion the jump for ZIA in off track handle suggests that might be the case.


-jp

.

[classhandicapper]

From the Bloodhorse.com article about Zia:
Link: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89044/zia-park-reports-record-all-sources-handle#ixzz3KxGIJLTV

Is it possible that from a lower signal fee - better rebates - lower effective takeout standpoint ZIA became a more attractive signal for bettors relative to other signals 'managed' by Monarch and Churchill where signal fees went up and rebates went down?

In my opinion the jump for ZIA in off track handle suggests that might be the case.


-jp

.

That was my first intuitive thought also.

Some tracks being down sharply and others being up sharply suggests that part of what is going on is a "shift" rather than a broad general decline. Now they have to figure out exactly why.

I know there are some differences in the way CA calculates its numbers, but supposedly Del Mar had a pretty good meet also.

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-meet-closes-strong-numbers-across-board

[Cholly]

From the Bloodhorse.com article about Zia:
Link: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89044/zia-park-reports-record-all-sources-handle#ixzz3KxGIJLTV

Is it possible that from a lower signal fee - better rebates - lower effective takeout standpoint ZIA became a more attractive signal for bettors relative to other signals 'managed' by Monarch and Churchill where signal fees went up and rebates went down?

In my opinion the jump for ZIA in off track handle suggests that might be the case.


-jp

.If what you're suggesting is possible turns out to be fact, then this jump in handle wouldn't be such great news to the Zia track or its horsemen.

No doubt there's some useful info to be gained from any track increasing handle in this day & age, but keep in mind we're talking about a grand total increase of $60,000 per day...chump change when it comes to putting on the show a major track, esp. if you guess the tracks are keeping maybe only 8% of the $60K.

[Stillriledup]

If what you're suggesting is possible turns out to be fact, then this jump in handle wouldn't be such great news to the Zia track or its horsemen.

No doubt there's some useful info to be gained from any track increasing handle in this day & age, but keep in mind we're talking about a grand total increase of $60,000 per day...chump change when it comes to putting on the show a major track.

The only way tracks are going to show gains is to make the price of the bet more attractive, there's no other way to do it. People aren't going to make bad bets, people have options unlike a few decades ago.

[cj]

If what you're suggesting is possible turns out to be fact, then this jump in handle wouldn't be such great news to the Zia track or its horsemen.

No doubt there's some useful info to be gained from any track increasing handle in this day & age, but keep in mind we're talking about a grand total increase of $60,000 per day...chump change when it comes to putting on the show a major track.

Regardless of how good rebates are, I don't see how tracks like this one are ever going to be attractive to big bettors. The pools are just too small. Recreational bettors won't have that problem, but they do pay a price as well...having no idea what the payoffs will be until the horses hit the stretch, and that isn't just win bets but exotics too.

[lamboguy]

If what you're suggesting is possible turns out to be fact, then this jump in handle wouldn't be such great news to the Zia track or its horsemen.

No doubt there's some useful info to be gained from any track increasing handle in this day & age, but keep in mind we're talking about a grand total increase of $60,000 per day...chump change when it comes to putting on the show a major track, esp. if you guess the tracks are keeping maybe only 8% of the $60K.from what i understand, this place does not charge for parking or admission and coffee is under $2.00 a cup.

[Redboard]

Maybe the whales are finding the minor tracks easier to get value at. I don't play the minor tracks often, but every time I do it seems like I get a better return for the risk taken.

[alydar]

Regardless of how good rebates are, I don't see how tracks like this one are ever going to be attractive to big bettors. The pools are just too small. Recreational bettors won't have that problem, but they do pay a price as well...having no idea what the payoffs will be until the horses hit the stretch, and that isn't just win bets but exotics too.

Big players can play these small tracks and do, but only on a limited basis as the total handle at the track will allow. You are not going to replace handle lost at NYRA with play at these small tracks.

[cj]

Big players can play these small tracks and do, but only on a limited basis as the total handle at the track will allow. You are not going to replace handle lost at NYRA with play at these small tracks.

Exactly.

[burnsy]

According
to Drf, nyra handle is down 58 million in 3 months. 15 - 20% seems like a more realistic projection.

Drf has reported on a couple other things that are all signs of the time for horse racing. The signal squabble which is a reoccurring nightmare like Ground Hog Day the motion picture. If people won't go to the track and bet from home.........that's a real handle booster..... :lol: The failure of poly at most of these tracks that quote "experimented" with it and the handle debacle you cited. I've seen other post where people say the same thing I say. They have had 30 years to figure this out........and more than half of the ideas are bad ones. Then there's the drugs, the cheating the stewards and people treating horses like they are fighting dogs. The economic thinking and PR are just things of beauty :rolleyes: If it were not for the horses themselves, you could probably stick a fork in racing them and betting on it. The human element is Lost In Space.....Danger, Danger, Danger...Will Robinson...... :bang:

[drib]

Today Thur. 12/04/14 on track: $647,872..... total: $4,771,272

Last Year Thur 12/05/13 $815,886 ....... $6,427,476

[Stillriledup]

Today Thur. 12/04/14 on track: $647,872 total: $4,771,272

Last Year Thur 12/05/13 815,886 6,427,476

if they raise coffee from 4 a cup to 5 a cup and sell 2 million cups, all will be well.

All will be well.

[affirmedny]

From the Bloodhorse.com article about Zia:
Link: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/89044/zia-park-reports-record-all-sources-handle#ixzz3KxGIJLTV

Is it possible that from a lower signal fee - better rebates - lower effective takeout standpoint ZIA became a more attractive signal for bettors relative to other signals 'managed' by Monarch and Churchill where signal fees went up and rebates went down?

In my opinion the jump for ZIA in off track handle suggests that might be the case.


-jp

.

they were shown on TVG much more this year than ever before. I'm sure that had much to do with the rise in off track handle.

[dirty moose]

If they are losing money with that handle, how does any other track (most with a fraction of that handle) stay in business?

[Tom]

If they are losing money with that handle, how does any other track (most with a fraction of that handle) stay in business?

Coffee.

[dirty moose]

Coffee.

Lol, sounds like they have a flawed business model.

[burnsy]

Lol, sounds like they have a flawed business model.

No it isn't, it all works out with Casino money :) . Who cares if people are getting ripped off? Or if the product is bad. There's still purses and racing. That's all that matters...its a real winning attitude.....it will work indefinitely.

Those stupid horse players, they can't quit, they won't take the money elsewhere.....you read, hear and feel this about the industry all the time. I've never heard any other business take this stance.....business model? Are you kidding me? Spit on them they'll keep playing anyway?Guess what? The tipping point on that is being reached. How many more million can it sink? Those crazy horse players, we can milk them for ever. Well guess what? Ole Elsie's teets just ran dry..........

[acorn54]

No it isn't, it all works out with Casino money :) . Who cares if people are getting ripped off? Or if the product is bad. There's still purses and racing. That's all that matters...its a real winning attitude.....it will work indefinitely.

Those stupid horse players, they can't quit, they won't take the money elsewhere.....you read, hear and feel this about the industry all the time. I've never heard any other business take this stance.....business model? Are you kidding me? Spit on them they'll keep playing anyway?Guess what? The tipping point on that is being reached. How many more million can it sink? Those crazy horse players, we can milk them for ever. Well guess what? Ole Elsie's teets just ran dry..........


i've said this before but i'll say it again, a gambling addiction counselor i talked with said about 1/2 of the horsebettors are addicted. as long as horsebettors continue to be a glutton for abuse nothing will change, money talks and b-t walks.

[netbet]

Everyone is saving their money for Gulfstream.

[whodoyoulike]

i've said this before but i'll say it again, a gambling addiction counselor i talked with said about 1/2 of the horsebettors are addicted. as long as horsebettors continue to be a glutton for abuse nothing will change, money talks and b-t walks.

I think it's higher than 50%. Everyone (100%) of the horseplayers I used to hang with were addicted. I wonder how they're doing.