Subtly Great and Terrible Rides

[EMD4ME]

Let me preface that I am not starting this thread out of sour grapes. I am starting it due to a painful understanding that this game has become almost unplayable due to the atrociously inconsistent, unprepared and insanely stupid rides that I am seeing on a daily and race by race basis.

I take notes on every horse and every race at NYRA and sometimes other tracks. I don't bet every race. I am not a 'jockey complainer' but my frustration has reached a point where I, a lifelong horse racing lover, feel like I can't make a wager because the pinhead OR stiff job artist will ruin the wager. Most are incompetent, so let's not go down the stiff job route.

Most terrible rides are by the "top jocks" who supposedly are so damn good. (let me also state that I don't bet jockeys, that's a small part of my selection process. If your name is not Ramón, I know as fact, that you suck, so it makes little difference who you are).

Here's a few examples:

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141129/7/pan/

11/29/14 race 7 Aqueduct, Cigar Mile day. Pulling G's. Gold rail day, speed is golden. Track is BIASED. The legendary ( :liar: ) Joel Rosario is riding the odds on chalk. He is on the lead, on the rail, he is full of horse and his OUTSIDE pace counterpart is in allllllllllll out drive. His pace counterpart is obviously dead, in terms of winning. At the 5/16, he drifts wide on purpose. He herds out a totally dead horse at the 1/4 and leaves the GOLD RAIL open. As he leaves the GOOOOOLD rail, of course, the pocket sitting 2 horse, Soldier In the Rain, beats him by a blond hair up the VACATED RAIL at the wire.

How stupid can Rosario be? Did he not watch the first 6 races on the card???

Did he not study the pp's of his foes before the race?

Did he not look to his right at all during the running of the race (to see that his NEED THE LEAD AND DIDN'T GET IT, FOE WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING BY HIM & BY THE WAY, HIS HORSE WAS UNDER A CORNELIO LOCK & was loaded throughout the race)????

It was obvious that if he ever lost that race, it would be by a pocket mover, not by the horse to his outside.

How ironic, the knumbskull won in the very next race gold rail to wire.....

That one example shows me just how stupid & unprepared Rosario was for that race.

Next race.....

I will utilize an example of a jock who didn't cost his mount a placing but almost did.

Race 8
http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141129/8/pan/

Paco Lopez. Another well bet supposed good jock. He is sitting pocket 1 race after the first example. The winner is showing no signs of slowing down. If anything the eventual third place finisher looks to 'chase and tire' on the far turn. His horse is under an all out drive around the far turn but not gaining. This genius decides he wants to vacate the gold rail at the 5/16's, lose valuable ground 3 wide against the gold rail and drawing away leader. He almost blew second because of his insanely stupid decision. Why not just stay on the rail, under the chaser, save every inch, follow the leader and be a clear second? Why almost blow second in a graded race!???????

I have literally 2 dozen more, just from the past 5 racing days. Darting to dead rails proactively, vacating gold rails as if the rail HAS EBOLA, not sending with the lone speed on a gold rail/speed biased day etc.

You can easily say, take notes and bet back. Yes, you can. What would you say if I told you that SOME OF these WERE PLAYBACKS (DERIVED off asinine rides)???

You want to KNOW why handle might be down? Try watching Castellano, Rosario, Ortiz (both of them) and alllllll the other big name jockeys ride as if they were just quantum leaped (remember that show-if not the joke is wasted) into the body of a pinhead jockey at the starting gate ....

That'll drive handle down.

[bello]

Precisely why the inner track is so appealing. You always have a couple of hungry apprentices who may be right out of jocks school and they will hug the rail, typically a smart thing to do on the inner while some of the more race worn journeymen will just go out and ride,while wondering why in the hell they are stuck in freezing New York for the winter.

[EMD4ME]

Quite frankly, I prefer a no name jock on my horses. Yes, I study jockey/trainer combos for 'intent' and live combos but apples being apples & wagers being made on horses vs horses if you're name is not Ramón, all you can do is snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. More often, wayyyyyyy more often, big name jocks blow a race vs doing something intelligent and actually winning a race

[EMD4ME]

The Aqueduct fall meet had SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO many outside bias days. I loved it. However, every single jock in the colony, at times, did not have a single clue that the rail was dead & that made me sick. I swear, you couldn't count on one pin head to actually purposely stay off the rail consistently when the bias was in play.

I loved listening to Andy critiquing these pin heads (nicely) but when your pocket is hurt or a score is snatched away by sheer and utter stupidity it's infuriating.

[Stillriledup]

This post made my night, i ALMOST started a post similar to this about a couple rides yesterday that got steam to come out of my head.

Needless to say, lost money on both of these rides.

The Great :rolleyes: Victor EsPINosa riding Prospector Alley at DMR (Race 5 Nov 30), decides to "quarter horse" him to the lead even though this horse has been ridden as a one move closer in his previous races. He rushes the horse to the lead, battles with some bomb, and makes Mike Smith look good again on an inferior horse, not sure what the guy was thinking, but when you take a horse out of his game like that, i'm not sure what you are going to accomplish.

In the 4th race yesterday at GG the GREAT Isias Enriquez riding Bobbylouie rode a horrendous race. This was a 25-1 shot who has some "one move" talent, if she's ridden conservatively and saves ground on both turns, she can hit underneath in the tri or super, it was only a 6 horse field, so she didnt have to do much to suck up for 3rd or 4th. What does the guy do? He rushes her into the pace down the backstretch battling and fades and gets beat a small-ish margin for 4th, if this horse was ridden conservatively like a 25-1 should be ridden, she's at least 4th in here and maybe even higher. Not sure where the guy was going, had no clue of his odds or the style of the horse, just rode like a jackass.

And lastly, i'm going to be mildly critical of Mario Guiterrez's ride on Mr Bowling in the Berkeley Hcp at GG on Nov 30th (Race 7). I handicapped this race and thought "if Mr Bowling is given a conservative ride and makes one move after saving ground on both turns, he might be able to sneak into the tri or super. So, the guy rode well early, he got the horse out of the gate and into a great ground saving spot inside early....but into the far turn, he just couldn't wait to lose ground on the turn and send the horse like there was 70 yards left in the race. Bowling was outclassed, he wasn't ever going to win this race unless he was ridden super conservatively and tried to get lucky, the guy rode as if he was 8-5.......if you're riding 10-1s like 8-5s and you're really 10-1 and not just 10-1 by mistake, you get exposed as an idiot and you cost your owners and bettors board spots and money.

Too many jocks just have no clue of their odds and how longshots need to be ridden and a lot of these guys ride as if they have no idea as to the context of their horse in that particular race.

Another thing that bugs me is how 99% of the time, jocks don't make moves to hinder (legally) other runners. For example, if there's a 2-5 shot speed horse from post 1 and that horse breaks a bit slow and the 2 horse outbreaks him in the first few strides, that jock won't move over to the inside, he will stay in the 2 lane and permit the post 1 rider to move inside of him. Jocks aren't smart enough to think "the horse i have to beat broke slow, let me get over and kick some dirt in his face and box him in".

If a jock "gets over" on the slow-ish breaking chalk, its by accident, these guys aren't smart enough to do something like that on purpose.

[EMD4ME]

Thanks for the reply. Appreciated all aspects of it. You just touched upon one major type of subtly bad ride that INFURIATES me. Gold rail, speed track. 2 speeds in positions 1 & 6. PP 1 gets left. PP 6 has a 3 length lead from the gate. Scarecrow , in a coma, midget brain from hell on the 6 doesn't realize 1) how the track is playing 2) who the competition is 3) what the pace scenario is etc. He leaves the rail open on the backstretch, the rail horse pushes up on the gold rail, they either duel and die or the rail horse wires.

It's beyond maddening and makes me not want to bet.

I'm not a Ramón homer but the guy was a prepared super intelligent genius. He never and I mean ever made those mistakes. You give me 10 replays, I'll show you 8 mistakes that Irad, Javier, Cornelio, Joel and John make.

It's insane how stupid they are.

Half glass full, and I will take heat for this, they are countless horseplayers who swear by these brain dead pin heads. Thank god they are wagering money and keep the pools somewhat afloat with value.

[EMD4ME]

SRU, let me also say this. The examples you gave are off longshots who need a very good trip to hit the board. Those are infuriating as they cost us supers, triples, exactas, sometimes pick whatevers. What kills me is having a tons the best horse lose me a pick 6 or pick 5 because a pin head snatches defeat, in the true meaning of the phrase, from the jaws of victory. It's maddening.

[Tom]

Subtly bad rides?
How about idiot-rides?
We have a lot of jockeys who flat out stink.
The pee brains who grab are worthless and probably betting on other horses.
Can't tell me anyone is that stupid for no reason.

Only the winning jock should get a cut of the purse, the rest get the ride fee.
That might make a few them wake up and realize this ain't dressage.

[arw629]

Watch back the 2014 Sam F Davis at Tampa in full....i had a $200 double which is a lot for me to the 1 horse Harpoon....Saez gave an absolutely atrocious ride, and I swear I won the photo....i saw this thread and instantly thought of this race....it's reliving a nightmare every time i watch it

[Stillriledup]

Thanks for the reply. Appreciated all aspects of it. You just touched upon one major type of subtly bad ride that INFURIATES me. Gold rail, speed track. 2 speeds in positions 1 & 6. PP 1 gets left. PP 6 has a 3 length lead from the gate. Scarecrow , in a coma, midget brain from hell on the 6 doesn't realize 1) how the track is playing 2) who the competition is 3) what the pace scenario is etc. He leaves the rail open on the backstretch, the rail horse pushes up on the gold rail, they either duel and die or the rail horse wires.

It's beyond maddening and makes me not want to bet.

I'm not a Ramón homer but the guy was a prepared super intelligent genius. He never and I mean ever made those mistakes. You give me 10 replays, I'll show you 8 mistakes that Irad, Javier, Cornelio, Joel and John make.

It's insane how stupid they are.

Half glass full, and I will take heat for this, they are countless horseplayers who swear by these brain dead pin heads. Thank god they are wagering money and keep the pools somewhat afloat with value.

Anyone who swears by these guys doesn't really watch the races carefully enough and if they do, they don't know what they're watching.

Jocks are so paranoid to be the pressee and not the presser, that they'll get in their own way and just not keep it simple.

You'll just get frustrated if you bank on these guys having a clue, even the "elite" riders look really bad on occasion.

It almost comes down to the notion that you can't take any horse under 10-1 for any reason, there are just too many things that can go wrong, too much idiocy, you need nice prices on all your runners because if you bet a bomb and the guy rides stupid, at least you were on a longshot.

Here's a link about Palace and how he was ridden poorly at a short price and then came back, with a new jock, was ridden the right way and cashed.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109369&highlight=palace

Here's a link about Lezcano riding Mr Speaker, the horse came back and he rode like i suggested he ride and the results were astounding. Its all here in black and white.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113980&highlight=lezcano

[Stillriledup]

SRU, let me also say this. The examples you gave are off longshots who need a very good trip to hit the board. Those are infuriating as they cost us supers, triples, exactas, sometimes pick whatevers. What kills me is having a tons the best horse lose me a pick 6 or pick 5 because a pin head snatches defeat, in the true meaning of the phrase, from the jaws of victory. It's maddening.

I needed Mr Bowling for 3rd yesterday for the Tri, would have paid "stacks" he vacated and the horse who beat him for 3rd took his spot. :bang:

[EMD4ME]

Subtly bad rides?
How about idiot-rides?
We have a lot of jockeys who flat out stink.
The pee brains who grab are worthless and probably betting on other horses.
Can't tell me anyone is that stupid for no reason.

Only the winning jock should get a cut of the purse, the rest get the ride fee.
That might make a few them wake up and realize this ain't dressage.


The idiot rides are clear as hell. They burn me as well. It's the subtle ones that burn me as people around me think I'm crazy for blowing a gasket cursing out the pinhead under my breath (or super loudly).

You're right in many cases, it is like an orchestra. JOCK A is the chosen one this race. Let's make a bit of cash money, orchestrate his win.

I truly believe that happened Saturday in Race 3. The twelve was a tail swishing, hates the whip donkey. Javier was on the chalk who's only question was :can he last a mile stretching out from 6F? Javier 's horse broke on top, YES IT WAS THE GOLD RAIL/SPEED BIAS DAY, he took a human anchor hold, also known as a "I'm stupid as hell Cornelio Lock" and choked his horse right out. All others were passive in the race. This after watching the 3 day outside closers trend flip to a wire job on the rail in race 1 (where no horse could make a move) and a 1st over PP 1 winner in race 2 (where the runner up was not hindered by a rail trip).

I truly believe that the pin heads orchestrated that one and cashed. No one can be that stupid............

Finally, how STTTTTUUUUPPPIDD, was Jose Ortiz on that wire jobber in that very same race?

That horse shies from the whip, shuts down and tail swishes when the whip is taken out and utilized.

He is coasting home at the 3/16, no one is making a dent. He whips the horse, the horse goes from the correct lead and cruising to the wrong lead. The horse's tail reaches the sky and he slows down. You would think, he'd put the whip away....... nope, pin head continues to whip.

They are unbelievably STUPID. Even when the fix is in AND/OR when they are trying to win.....

[Augenj]

Every race has a story to tell about jockey rides. They have a tough job and I respect that. However... (conspiracy here) I saw a ride at Delta Downs one night on a heavy favorite in a race that was being shown on TVG. I had no money on the race and was an impartial observer. I always watch the favorite when I don't care about the outcome.

At the 5/16 pole, there were two packs of horses separated by about 3 lengths, and all were setting down for the drive... except the heavy favorite who was the lead horse in the second pack. He "checked" according to the announcer and then "checked" again with his head jerking up even though he was free and clear of traffic. He finished out of the money with his ears pricked forward. One of the TVG analysts started to say something about it but cut himself off.

I've seen other rides on bigger tracks that were suspect too. However, we're in this game in spite of drugs and rides and chicanery. We have no choice but to accept things as they are or get stiff national regulation which is "big government" to some and therefore will never come about. ;)

[EMD4ME]

Every race has a story to tell about jockey rides. They have a tough job and I respect that. However... (conspiracy here) I saw a ride at Delta Downs one night on a heavy favorite in a race that was being shown on TVG. I had no money on the race and was an impartial observer. I always watch the favorite when I don't care about the outcome.

At the 5/16 pole, there were two packs of horses separated by about 3 lengths, and all were setting down for the drive... except the heavy favorite who was the lead horse in the second pack. He "checked" according to the announcer and then "checked" again with his head jerking up even though he was free and clear of traffic. He finished out of the money with his ears pricked forward. One of the TVG analysts started to say something about it but cut himself off.

I've seen other rides on bigger tracks that were suspect too. However, we're in this game in spite of drugs and rides and chicanery. We have no choice but to accept things as they are or get stiff national regulation which is "big government" to some and therefore will never come about. ;)

It's one of 2 things and I believe it's both things all the time.

1) they are incredibly stupid
2) many horses and races are no go's/stiffs and despite the purse money, there is more to be made via wagering.

[cj]

I honestly think a lot of guys riding these days would rather run 3rd or 4th than risk going for the win and running last.

[cj]

I needed Mr Bowling for 3rd yesterday for the Tri, would have paid "stacks" he vacated and the horse who beat him for 3rd took his spot. :bang:

I just can't fault a rider for trying to win. You actually wanted him to ride for 3rd? Come on.

[EMD4ME]

I needed Mr Bowling for 3rd yesterday for the Tri, would have paid "stacks" he vacated and the horse who beat him for 3rd took his spot. :bang:

That one I hate as well. Not talking about the vacating of a spot late in the race only. I hate it when everyone in their mother can predict my horse sitting pocket on the turf (best trip most often) and my pin head leaving the pocket for an undrafted, let's chase early and die trip into the clubhouse turn instead of sitting pocket. That burns me,

You want an example.....???

Here's the legendary dipshit Javier Castellano in Sunday's 9th race. He's on the 5.

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141130/9/pan/

If he stays in the pocket instead of vacating at the 5/8, he is 1000000000000000000000000000000000% guaranteed at least a very close to the winner 2nd (and a clear third) or a 50% chance of winning.

Instead, he chooses to vacate at the 5/8 (you know, the loose leader was a Michael maker turf horse & those who run 25 second first quarters are destined to quit in all turf races , don't you :bang: )

I tell myself. He can't be that stupid, he must've did that on purpose to lose. Then I tell myself :yes, he can be that stupid.

Either way, I'm stupid for wagering with these professional wrestlers on my mounts (orchestrators of supposed real warfare)

[EMD4ME]

Before anyone hear says he took him wide as he thought he was best............


Any real horseman, jockey, jockey agent or handicapper knew that race could've been won by the 57 or 9 in 9/10 runs of that race. He got out for position. Secured it behind 1 of the only other 2 contenders. His best shot was to be a pocket rocket. If the nine were to join, it would be with a 3 wide on the backstretch and far turn run or a follow behind me move, a normally tough way to win in a NO FLOW race.

He can't be that stupid. That was on purpose. If it wasn't, GOD he's brain dead.

[EMD4ME]

I will say it again. GOD, I MISS Ramón. He was the only and I mean singular jockey that you could bet your life on, to give you a genius ride ALL the time.

Prepared, super intelligent, studied the track, the competition and all aspects of a genius who is well versed in "IF then scenarios".

These idiots couldn't compute first grade if then scenarios.

[Stillriledup]

I just can't fault a rider for trying to win. You actually wanted him to ride for 3rd? Come on.

That's why i said mildly critical. I don't want him to do anything, he does what he wants, but if you ride a 10-1 shot like an 8-5 shot and it turns out that he's really only as good as a 10-1 shot, you can get exposed for a ride that wasn't conservative enough for the horse's chances.

If he asked me in the paddock "how should i ride if i want to win" i wouldn't have told him to send the horse 3 wide into the air on the far turn and start riding the hair off the horse with a furlong and a half to go.

Jerry Bailey was "trying" to win with Arcangues while all Mr Bowling's jock was doing was Trying to look like he was trying.

[Stillriledup]

That one I hate as well. Not talking about the vacating of a spot late in the race only. I hate it when everyone in their mother can predict my horse sitting pocket on the turf (best trip most often) and my pin head leaving the pocket for an undrafted, let's chase early and die trip into the clubhouse turn instead of sitting pocket. That burns me,

You want an example.....???

Here's the legendary dipshit Javier Castellano in Sunday's 9th race. He's on the 5.

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141130/9/pan/

If he stays in the pocket instead of vacating at the 5/8, he is 1000000000000000000000000000000000% guaranteed at least a very close to the winner 2nd (and a clear third) or a 50% chance of winning.

Instead, he chooses to vacate at the 5/8 (you know, the loose leader was a Michael maker turf horse & those who run 25 second first quarters are destined to quit in all turf races , don't you :bang: )

I tell myself. He can't be that stupid, he must've did that on purpose to lose. Then I tell myself :yes, he can be that stupid.

Either way, I'm stupid for wagering with these professional wrestlers on my mounts (orchestrators of supposed real warfare)

I think jocks #1 priorities are to A) Look like you're actually trying and B) put yourself in the best position to not be criticized.

What i mean by B is that jocks won't ever err on the side of sitting in, they'll always angle out and lose ground, that way, if the horse doesn't fire, its the horse's fault not their fault.

[EMD4ME]

Watch back the 2014 Sam F Davis at Tampa in full....i had a $200 double which is a lot for me to the 1 horse Harpoon....Saez gave an absolutely atrocious ride, and I swear I won the photo....i saw this thread and instantly thought of this race....it's reliving a nightmare every time i watch it

http://www.calracing.com/live-video/replays/

I have to be honest. I saw nothing wrong UNTIL the 3/16. He made a decision to angle 8-9 wide into the lane. He gave the horse a nice pocket drafting ride till the far turn & couldn't keep up during the early run into the far turn. The 8 took his spot at the 5/16 and his decision wasn't bad.

HOWEVER.....ONCE HE SWUNG so wide into the lane, not one ounce of me could EVER understand how this pea brain mental midget could whip his horse right handed while his horse was on the wrong lead lugging in DUE TO HIS PROACTIVE USE OF A RIGHT HAND WHIP. If he would've whipped left handed, then......

1)he keeps a straighter course. I learned when I was 3 that a straight line is the shortest distance traveled. Unfortunately these mental midgets failed that class.

2) his horse might've changed leads. Which we know provides a new burst (try jumping on one leg for thirty seconds and then switching over)

3) he would not of had to worry about falling on his nearest inside foe. (of course all caused by his stupid and proactive use of a right hand whip after angling out 8 wide).

Subtle to the average Joe but blatant to us.

[EMD4ME]

I think jocks #1 priorities are to A) Look like you're actually trying and B) put yourself in the best position to not be criticized.

What i mean by B is that jocks won't ever err on the side of sitting in, they'll always angle out and lose ground, that way, if the horse doesn't fire, its the horse's fault not their fault.

But that is how they lose a race. Chasing from the 3/4 or 5/8 3 wide against no flow is not the way to win. Are people that stupid ? To actually believe that they are trying to win with those rides?

[Stillriledup]

We have really "gotten into" rider mistakes, its only fair to point out subtle moves that turn losers into winners. Add your "Great subtle rides' HERE.

(Waiting for EMD4ME to post a video of a chirping cricket :D )

[Stillriledup]

But that is how they lose a race. Chasing from the 3/4 or 5/8 3 wide against no flow is not the way to win. Are people that stupid ? To actually believe that they are trying to win with those rides?

Plenty of owners are clowns when it comes to the racing game, so they won't know a bad ride from a good ride...this is what keeps these jocks on mounts even after riding mistakes.

[EMD4ME]

That's why i said mildly critical. I don't want him to do anything, he does what he wants, but if you ride a 10-1 shot like an 8-5 shot and it turns out that he's really only as good as a 10-1 shot, you can get exposed for a ride that wasn't conservative enough for the horse's chances.

If he asked me in the paddock "how should i ride if i want to win" i wouldn't have told him to send the horse 3 wide into the air on the far turn and start riding the hair off the horse with a furlong and a half to go.

Jerry Bailey was "trying" to win with Arcangues while all Mr Bowling's jock was doing was Trying to look like he was trying.


Love the last sentence.......

[horses4courses]

Every ride that I see that gets my horse to the wire first is a great ride.
No exceptions.

Don't get me started on the bad rides, though. ;)

[EMD4ME]

We have really "gotten into" rider mistakes, its only fair to point out subtle moves that turn losers into winners. Add your "Great subtle rides' HERE.

(Waiting for EMD4ME to post a video of a chirping cricket :D )


John Velazquez. Race 8 Wednesday November 26, 2014.

Number 5.

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141126/8/pan/

I'm not a jaded player. I call it like it is. This one was great.

If he doesn't whip left handed at the eight pole, he loses. Not really a great ride but sadly, after dealing with one pin head after the other whipping right handed with the lead, I have to appreciate a jock who does the right (pun intended :lol: ) thing.... herding out without contact left handed.

[DeltaLover]

We have really "gotten into" rider mistakes, its only fair to point out subtle moves that turn losers into winners. Add your "Great subtle rides' HERE.

(Waiting for EMD4ME to post a video of a chirping cricket :D )

I do not know about my friend EMD, but when it comes to awful rider mistakes, my mind always go back to Frankie aboard Swain.. My last $600 dollars was on his nose! I barely had enough change to get back home after the race!

Take a look:


cX9SCyKLlLU

[EMD4ME]

Jesus, you would think after the first left handed crack, he would've switched hands! Nope he kept whipping left handed till he hit the 2nd floor of the grandstand :lol: :lol:

[ten2oneormore]

Nakatani on Victor's Cry in the 2010 Shoemaker Mile and Christophe Soumillion on Sarah Lynx in the 2011 Canadian International .



They were just patient ground saving rides but I'm biased.

[thaskalos]

I do not know about my friend EMD, but when it comes to awful rider mistakes, my mind always go back to Frankie aboard Swain.. My last $600 dollars was on his nose! I barely had enough change to get back home after the race!

Take a look:


cX9SCyKLlLU


What bad ride? If I am not mistaken...the outside part of the track was the place to be that day. :)

[Exotic1]

John Velazquez. Race 8 Wednesday November 26, 2014.

Number 5.

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141126/8/pan/

I'm not a jaded player. I call it like it is. This one was great.

If he doesn't whip left handed at the eight pole, he loses. Not really a great ride but sadly, after dealing with one pin head after the other whipping right handed with the lead, I have to appreciate a jock who does the right (pun intended :lol: ) thing.... herding out without contact left handed.

Part of that great ride was that JV opened up 2 on the backside with Cape Cod Carol which created enough separation from the field to make it most difficult on Make the Moment to close into. How JV was able to do that and still encourage her to finish the way she did was expert. CCC never did that before - opening 2 on the field at the 2nd call. At first glance, she ran a very strong pace and final time figure - possibly new pace and final time tops on that wet track though I haven't yet seen the TimeformUS numbers. I don't know if that pace would be considered a "pressured pace" but it was impressive. I didn't play CCC in that race.

[cj]

This is a great ride for me...


Establish best early position without overusing the horse or losing lots of ground
Maintain that position until the stretch
Give the horse a clear run to finish


That is it. I don't want "great" rides. I want rides that give a horse the best chance to win.

[Robert Fischer]

I wish I was good enough to capitalize on subtly bad rides.

I do understand how frustrating missing a score or a multi-race single can be, when a riding error is to blame.

[Robert Fischer]

I liked Borel's ride on El Kabeir to win the Jockey Club Stakes , Saturday @ Churchill.

He opened up early on the lead, and it appeared that he would soon be spent on the lead, but he got the horse to relax, and then had just enough to last.

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbPDFChartPlus.cfm?RACE=11&BorP=P&TID=CD&CTRY=USA&DT=11/29/2014&DAY=D&STYLE=EQB

[Fingal]

2006 San Simeon down the hill at Santa Anita. PVal was on Pure As Gold, saved ground in about 4th or 5th until they hit the dirt crossing, & when everyone else drifted out he shot through on the rail opening up a quick lead that he held all the way down the stretch. It was a thing of beauty.

[Stillriledup]

Lots of bad riding going on in todays 7th at Turf Paradise, nobody wanted the lead and nobody seemed to be able to adjust and "go". they were all looking at each other on the backstretch, nobody was able to adjust. The guy rode the chalk like he was in a 6 mile race, he strangled him and was off the pace despite the early pace being very slow. Odd ride on a horse the public thought couldnt lose.

[cj]

Lots of bad riding going on in todays 7th at Turf Paradise, nobody wanted the lead and nobody seemed to be able to adjust and "go". they were all looking at each other on the backstretch, nobody was able to adjust. The guy rode the chalk like he was in a 6 mile race, he strangled him and was off the pace despite the early pace being very slow. Odd ride on a horse the public thought couldnt lose.

It is TuP, what do you expect? If those guys were any good they would be somewhere else.

[ultracapper]

Don't remember the race, but Krone gave Reddatore a fabulous ride one night at Hollywood Park.

[Stillriledup]

It is TuP, what do you expect? If those guys were any good they would be somewhere else.

This is true, they all suck except for DVD who's not really a TuP lifer.

I do think that even if you suck, you can suck and still be aggressive, this race was a sleepathon, guys rode as though they didn't realize it was a sprint race.

[EMD4ME]

I wish I was good enough to capitalize on subtly bad rides.

I do understand how frustrating missing a score or a multi-race single can be, when a riding error is to blame.


After Rosario totally blew the 7th Saturday, my buddy tells me:

You need to factor in their stupidity and adjust your play.

I looked at him and said: so I should expect a completely bonehead ride by a random jock and somehow (with a crystal ball) know who will be the benefactor of a random act of chaos? Should I go all all all all all all all in the pick 6 to be safe?????

Yeah....I wish I was good enough to know who will make a random brain dead move and bet accordingly on the random benefactor as well.

[Stillriledup]

After Rosario totally blew the 7th Saturday, my buddy tells me:

You need to factor in their stupidity and adjust your play.

I looked at him and said: so I should expect a completely bonehead ride by a random jock and somehow (with a crystal ball) know who will be the benefactor of a random act of chaos? Should I go all all all all all all all in the pick 6 to be safe?????

Yeah....I wish I was good enough to know who will make a random brain dead move and bet accordingly on the random benefactor as well.

You just need to stick to 10 and 20-1 shots, that way, if you get a bad ride, at least you have put yourself in a position to not need to hit 1 out of 2 or 1 out of 3 to show a profit. Leave room for error, most of these jocks can't be bet at anything under 10-1, there's too much risk for idiot rides.

[MJC922]

1987 Santa Anita Handicap. Cordero on Broad Brush. Taken back early, tipped slightly outside to minimize the kickback for a horse that wasn't known to be in a good mood, angled into the 2 path first turn to save ground. Then at a key moment when a horse from off the pace could easily be caught several lengths too far back, notice strong urging on the far turn to reach contention, tipped outside into the lane, then repeated right-handed stick in order to drift in a couple of paths making potential intimidating contact and finally nailed him on the line. It'll never get better than Angel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAEZ-QRAts8

[cj]

1987 Santa Anita Handicap. Cordero on Broad Brush. Taken back early, tipped slightly outside to minimize the kickback for a horse that wasn't known to be in a good mood, angled into the 2 path first turn to save ground. Then at a key moment when a horse from off the pace could easily be caught several lengths too far back, notice strong urging on the far turn to reach contention, tipped outside into the lane, then repeated right-handed stick in order to drift in a couple of paths making potential intimidating contact and finally nailed him on the line. It'll never get better than Angel.

pAEZ-QRAts8

My favorite race of all time.

[thaskalos]

How the heck did Cordero know that he won that race?

[cj]

How the heck did Cordero know that he won that race?


I always wondered that myself, even watching the replay it looks like Ferdinand. He knows the wire I guess.

[Stillriledup]

My favorite race of all time.

not the 86 Pa Derby?

[cj]

not the 86 Pa Derby?

No, he was my favorite horse. He was supposed to win in PA. It was a big deal for a Maryland based horse to go west and win the biggest race, taking the Derby winner and the Preakness winner.

[Stillriledup]

No, he was my favorite horse. He was supposed to win in PA. It was a big deal for a Maryland based horse to go west and win the biggest race, taking the Derby winner and the Preakness winner.

He was supposed to win, but at the top of the lane, he became 50-1 at one point!!

Remember the days in the DRF when they would have "mud marks"? Broad Brush was a "superior Mudder" (and not a bad father either :D ) and was granted an X next to his name.

He was Broad Brush X.

[nijinski]

How the heck did Cordero know that he won that race?
What a finish , I thought the same but Cordero was a determined and
confident jockey ! He just new lol .

[Stillriledup]

How the heck did Cordero know that he won that race?

Its amazing that it was a track he rarely rode at, maybe he just made a mistake and thought he won by more than he really did, there's no way he could have known for sure.

[EMD4ME]

This is a great ride for me...


Establish best early position without overusing the horse or losing lots of ground
Maintain that position until the stretch
Give the horse a clear run to finish


That is it. I don't want "great" rides. I want rides that give a horse the best chance to win.

I agree 100%. And don't screw it up somehow with a bonehead mistake (or 2)

[jahura2]

CJ. Thanks for posting the '87 Big Cap. I had forgotten about the quality and excitement of that race. Broad Brush and Ferdinand 2 of my all time favorites. After watching it again (at work) the biggest thing I took from that race was the aggressive nature of the rides. None of this waiting.....waiting ....and more waiting to see what the other guy was going to do. Stevens and Shoe were riding hard 4F out and Cordero knew he better go. Too many times these days a horse gets an easy lead and the pace makes him a winner. This race was a testament to the phrase "only the strong survive".

[maclr11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39pZwcNsw4

Ortiz with a great ride here to win the Juvenile Turf this year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcFaVAZrPTE

Pat Eddery on the great turf mare Pebbles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2Oy7kQ3OU

Gomez coaxing Beholder home wire to wire, first time going two turns

[Broad Brush]

No, he was my favorite horse. He was supposed to win in PA. It was a big deal for a Maryland based horse to go west and win the biggest race, taking the Derby winner and the Preakness winner.


You simply have great taste in liking horses!!!

Angel put in many clever rides on "Brush" to get him to perform.

I always thought that if Angel had ridden Brush from 2yo on, he could have
won his Derby.

[EMD4ME]

You just need to stick to 10 and 20-1 shots, that way, if you get a bad ride, at least you have put yourself in a position to not need to hit 1 out of 2 or 1 out of 3 to show a profit. Leave room for error, most of these jocks can't be bet at anything under 10-1, there's too much risk for idiot rides.

That's fine and dandy if you're making 8 win bets in a day or couple day span but if you're playing the pick 6 or pick 5, you many times need to lean on a legit 2/1 shot.

[Stillriledup]

That's fine and dandy if you're making 8 win bets in a day or couple day span but if you're playing the pick 6 or pick 5, you many times need to lean on a legit 2/1 shot.

Yeah, but if you play a pick 5 or pick 6, you're not betting on a 2-1 shot, that horse becomes part of a larger much higher odds bet. You're not risking 1 to win 2.

[EMD4ME]

I understand that pal. What I'm saying is that many times I'll lean heavily on a single or a key horse, who happens to be short odds. In those cases I need these braindead pinheads to not screw it up with an asinine ride.

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about the greatness that was on display in the 7th today at Golden Gate. Stand and Salute Russell Baze, what a fantastic ride, got everything out of this horse right to the end.

[dilanesp]

Its amazing that it was a track he rarely rode at, maybe he just made a mistake and thought he won by more than he really did, there's no way he could have known for sure.

Cordero rode out here more than you might think, though he was obviously never part of the colony. He won a lot of races at Santa Anita over the years.

The best ride I have ever seen in all the time I have watched races here in California was Jerry Bailey's on Arcangues in the 1993 Breeders' Cup Classic. He does everything right, saves all the ground, and wins a gigantic horse race with an enormous longshot running down the favorite in the stretch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zWr9ZgmUTw

The second best ride I ever saw was by Willie Shoemaker on JO Tobin in the 1977 Swaps Stakes. JO Tobin was not exactly a speed horse. But Shoemaker understood California tracks, understood that eastern speed horses could be vulnerable if you got out in front of them (Groovy got beat a couple of times here in California based on that), and forced Seattle Slew completely out of his element by sending his horse out to run insane fractions that he knew Jean Cruguet would never contest on Slew.

Unfortunately, that video is no longer up on youtube.

[EMD4ME]

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141207/9/headon/

Here is another subtly stupid STRETCH ride that burns me.

The actual overall ride was 100% stupid (5 wide far turn, wide clubhouse turn) but let's not focus on that. Let's focus on the subtly terrible stretch drive here from the number 10 horse, which directly costs his owners second and exotic players the exacta/triple/super.

I can never and I mean EVER comprehend how these pinheads seem to always whip right handed coming down the lane at the worst times.

First, what do I think is subtly terrible... He is rallying in the 5 or 6 path at the 3/16ths (he's already been wide the whole way and that is not of concern) and the PINHEAD is whipping right handed (his horse moves in a path-the whip is a steering mechanism, of course the horse moved in a path). After the horse moves inward (does what he's instructed to do by pinhead jock) the jockey realizes 'oh shit I need to move back outward because I am too close my inside foe'. Pinhead drags horse outward, loses valuable inches/feet in the process (mind you, a direct result of PINHEAD'S proactive efforts) and gets back into a drive. There is no one to the pinhead's right so a left hand whip is the 100000% decision.

The PINHEAD amazingly repeats the same mistake he just committed....

Whips horse right handed, horse accordingly moves in a path again (CHEE WHAT A SURPRISE :bang:) AND GUESS WHAT... he bumps the inside foe, losses valuable momentum and ground.

Pinhead repeats process of dragging horse back outward and rallies to miss second by a diminishing nose.

It is safe to assume that 1) PINHEAD COST HIS MOUNT AT LEAST 1 LENGTH BY HAVING TO PULL REINS OUTWARD TO RESTRAIGHTEN A HORSE THAT HE PROACTIVELY VEERED INTO HIS INSIDE FOE on 2 different occasions through the stretch drive.

It is also safe to assume that most pinheads are right handed (as are most humans). To me, I have never seen a horse accelerate when whipped. It is an activity which is used to steer a horse or to ask for all available energy levels to be exerted or it's a use of saying 'let's go NOW horsie'

Hard drives are what keep horses going. Hard drives are what helps a horse move quicker (or slow down less in the end of a dirt race).

Point being, assume a PINHEAD is right handed, if they whip left handed, they are pumping with their strong hand which will help immensely down the lane.

Most PINHEADS are right handed, as their testosterone flows down the lane, they tend to pull the whip out in a reactionary manor with... you guessed it... their equally (as their brains) stupid right hand. This causes a pump with their weak hand, ASSININE path changes/bumps (like in this clear cut case of the inappropriate use of a right hand whip) and people to lose money.

Don't take this the wrong way but........ as a normal intelligent human being with my hard earned money on the line, their complete lack of mental aptitude infuriates me.

[aaron]

That one I hate as well. Not talking about the vacating of a spot late in the race only. I hate it when everyone in their mother can predict my horse sitting pocket on the turf (best trip most often) and my pin head leaving the pocket for an undrafted, let's chase early and die trip into the clubhouse turn instead of sitting pocket. That burns me,

You want an example.....???

Here's the legendary dipshit Javier Castellano in Sunday's 9th race. He's on the 5.

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/race-replay/AQD/2014/20141130/9/pan/

If he stays in the pocket instead of vacating at the 5/8, he is 1000000000000000000000000000000000% guaranteed at least a very close to the winner 2nd (and a clear third) or a 50% chance of winning.

Instead, he chooses to vacate at the 5/8 (you know, the loose leader was a Michael maker turf horse & those who run 25 second first quarters are destined to quit in all turf races , don't you :bang: )

I tell myself. He can't be that stupid, he must've did that on purpose to lose. Then I tell myself :yes, he can be that stupid.

Either way, I'm stupid for wagering with these professional wrestlers on my mounts (orchestrators of supposed real warfare)
There was a race on the Cigar Mile Saturday that Castellano was sitting on the rail and he tried to get outside,but was forced to the rail by another horse and won at 9-1. When these guys do the right thing,it is mostly by accident.

[EMD4ME]

There was a race on the Cigar Mile Saturday that Castellano was sitting on the rail and he tried to get outside,but was forced to the rail by another horse and won at 9-1. When these guys do the right thing,it is mostly by accident.

I might be wrong but that is the race I erupted about. Rosario blew the rail (see original post) & I believe that was castellano coming up the rail by accident to win. Of course, my DRF is down right now so I can't access my charts....

It is mostly by accident.

They are just like cab drivers. They have 1 singular responsibility and 99.99999999999% of them absolutely CANNOT call themselves "professionals" at their 1 singular daily activity.

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about today's 8th at TuP. the entire field of jocks stayed far off the rail down the backstretch permitting the 1 horse clear access up the rail after she (a one dimensional speed sort) broke behind the field. Not sure what the jocks were thinking there, but that was "subtly terrible" and braindead.

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about R Guce, MAJOR clown ride on Gianis in the 5th at Los Al.

She's a bit slow, but sharp and racing well, she had a chance to be 3rd or 4th with a conservative ride, they guy sends her like its a 100 yard race, the little filly races well, but she wasn't going to hit any boards with that ride, not sure what the guy was doing, he rode a 29-1 shot like an 8-5 shot, no clue or concept, just a random guy doing a random poor job at knowing the situation.

[cj]

The favorite in the Hawthorne finale just got a subtly bad ride but won anyway, she was that much the best.

[cj]

Nothing subtle about R Guce, MAJOR clown ride on Gianis in the 5th at Los Al.

She's a bit slow, but sharp and racing well, she had a chance to be 3rd or 4th with a conservative ride, they guy sends her like its a 100 yard race, the little filly races well, but she wasn't going to hit any boards with that ride, not sure what the guy was doing, he rode a 29-1 shot like an 8-5 shot, no clue or concept, just a random guy doing a random poor job at knowing the situation.

So should you just start a terrible rides thread where you can gripe about all your longshots that aren't ridden to be third and cost you a trifecta that is an underlay anyway?

[Stillriledup]

So should you just start a terrible rides thread where you can gripe about all your longshots that aren't ridden to be third and cost you a trifecta that is an underlay anyway?

Im not saying the guy should ride for 3rd, but if you're 30-1 i dont think you should be battling for the lead riding the hair off the horse getting in speed duels. If the guy saves ground and rides conservative, that's the best way to win the race. Ride to win, you're not going to win by riding hopeless longshots like they're favorites.

[cj]

Im not saying the guy should ride for 3rd, but if you're 30-1 i dont think you should be battling for the lead riding the hair off the horse getting in speed duels. If the guy saves ground and rides conservative, that's the best way to win the race. Ride to win, you're not going to win by riding hopeless longshots like they're favorites.

Aggressive riding in the best way to win, whether 1-5 or 99-1.

[Stillriledup]

Aggressive riding in the best way to win, whether 1-5 or 99-1.

I don't agree, plenty of times a bomb will pick up the pieces after a bunch of guys get overagressive. If you're the bomb that's aggressive, you're going to have to be pretty good to win where as if you just suck along and try and get lucky, you can win a certain percentage of the races just by being in the right place at the right time. Taking the bull by the horns can work if you're really a major contender and the public just whiffed, but in the case of this Guce horse, he was much slower on paper than the top contenders, he had to ride this specific horse a certain way to have a chance to win and a chance at a board spot...its better to have a plan than just be a clown and ride wherever the wind takes you, Guce didn't know the horse or the situation here, he rode like he had no idea he was 30-1, he just got aboard and threw the lines at the horse at the start.

[cj]

So jockeys should ride according to how the public feels the horse will do...good to know.

[Stillriledup]

So jockeys should ride according to how the public feels the horse will do...good to know.

No, he should ride according to the horse's actual chances, knowing the competition, etc.

If you're 30-1, usually there's a reason.

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about the idiocy of the jock riding the 6 horse in the 4th today at Parx. Not sure what he was doing, he acted as if he didn't watch numerous replays of this animal to "Get" what he was about, he "Sent" this one move "outside" sort inside on the turn and got himself in all sorts of problems not to mention that's not exactly a "winning" ride sending a horse that soon into a race, esp a one move sort like Mav's Gun.

Horse to watch in stable mail, BTL performance with Pinhead Ride.

[ReplayRandall]

Nothing subtle about the idiocy of the jock riding the 6 horse in the 4th today at Parx. Not sure what he was doing, he acted as if he didn't watch numerous replays of this animal to "Get" what he was about, he "Sent" this one move "outside" sort inside on the turn and got himself in all sorts of problems not to mention that's not exactly a "winning" ride sending a horse that soon into a race, esp a one move sort like Mav's Gun.

Horse to watch in stable mail, BTL performance with Pinhead Ride.


SRU, the 6 horse broke 5th and saw an opening down on the rail to save ground while three horses rode abreast mid-track for the lead. The move was correct, saving ground and energy into the turn, with the horse "showing" nothing in the stretch. However, I will give this horse another look as the gallop out was positive. Look for Castillo to be back on, next time.

[Stillriledup]

SRU, the 6 horse broke 5th and saw an opening down on the rail to save ground while three horses rode abreast mid-track for the lead. The move was correct, saving ground and energy into the turn, with the horse "showing" nothing in the stretch. However, I will give this horse another look as the gallop out was positive. Look for Castillo to be back on, next time.

Its usually ok to save ground, but this is Parx, the rail not always the best place to be. Also, he didn't just save ground, he "Sent" the horse hard trying to ace out the chalk rushing the horse, i didnt like the "Rushed" ride on that particular horse.

[ReplayRandall]

Its usually ok to save ground, but this is Parx, the rail not always the best place to be. Also, he didn't just save ground, he "Sent" the horse hard trying to ace out the chalk rushing the horse, i didnt like the "Rushed" ride on that particular horse.

Yes, the rail does look dead, as top 3 all raced mid-track throughout the race. I don't agree that he was "sent hard", as Rosado's push in the turn was quickly aborted...

[Stillriledup]

Great ride by E Oro in the 4th at Turf Paradise on the 8 horse, Calesita Bay.

She was the "lone closer" in a race with speedy cut back types and he got away with the pack, but he didn't want to lose ground, so he eased her back very gently and just before the turn he was able to get her back just far enough to cut the corner. He missed in a hard charging photo, but the ride was fantastic, you would be shocked if you knew how many jocks just let their mount drift wide into that first turn and don't consciously take back to cut the corner.

Deft move in the lane also when he ran up behind horses he angled out to a clear spot and charged and missed.

Kudos to Oro, did everyting right there.

[Stillriledup]

Yes, the rail does look dead, as top 3 all raced mid-track throughout the race. I don't agree that he was "sent hard", as Rosado's push in the turn was quickly aborted...

I appreciate him saving ground, i just didn't like that move on that particular horse, i know its hard for a jock to see that spot and not take it and just settle his horse for one move, but he used his "one move" chasing that spot and i know this horse well, he's a so cal horse who has to be ridden a certain way, and that wasn't it.

Stable Mail!

[Stillriledup]

Can you have a subtly terrible ride and a subtly great ride on the same horse in the same race?

I don't know whether JL Ortiz rode a horrendous race with Awesome Lute or a sneaky brilliant race. He was amazing to get this horse up for the dead heat in the stretch, he looked death and taxes to be off the board turning for home, not sure how he got there, rode the hair off this one, give him big ups for that.

[EMD4ME]

Can you have a subtly terrible ride and a subtly great ride on the same horse in the same race?

I don't know whether JL Ortiz rode a horrendous race with Awesome Lute or a sneaky brilliant race. He was amazing to get this horse up for the dead heat in the stretch, he looked death and taxes to be off the board turning for home, not sure how he got there, rode the hair off this one, give him big ups for that.

There was nothing great about that ride, atrocious comes to mind. Ramón rides that horse in that race, he wins by 9 3/4 without breaking a cantor. Jose sucks. 3 accidental wins/coincidental/horse won despite him wins today

[Stillriledup]

There was nothing great about that ride, atrocious comes to mind. Ramón rides that horse in that race, he wins by 9 3/4 without breaking a cantor. Jose sucks. 3 accidental wins/coincidental/horse won despite him wins today

I was kinda thinking the horse had no chance to lose on paper, he got the lead and then grabbed and yielded...you don't usually see horses who cant lose getting ridden as if they can.

[EMD4ME]

I was kinda thinking the horse had no chance to lose on paper, he got the lead and then grabbed and yielded...you don't usually see horses who cant lose getting ridden as if they can.

It was a slow opening quarter, even for that bunch. All he had to do was hold position under the need the lead 8 at the half and he would've coasted.

He acted like Scott bakula. Like he quantum leaped into a jockey's body at the 9/16 and had no clue that there's thing called a turn coming up in a 1/16 of a mile. He cost his horse 5-7 lengths from the check and cost his horse countless lengths from poor energy distribution/ground loss/momentum lost.

Jose sucks.

[Stillriledup]

It was a slow opening quarter, even for that bunch. All he had to do was hold position under the need the lead 8 at the half and he would've coasted.

He acted like Scott bakula. Like he quantum leaped into a jockey's body at the 9/16 and had no clue that there's thing called a turn coming up in a 1/16 of a mile. He cost his horse 5-7 lengths from the check and cost his horse countless lengths from poor energy distribution/ground loss/momentum lost.

Jose sucks.

The horse was "climbing" into the far turn, that woudn't have happened had he just drove on. You NEVER grab up the heavy favorite when you are in that position.....if you are going to get beat, you get beat sending, especially on that track vs that field. HE essentially got the horse beat because he shared win money with another horse.

He rode like he didn't know the situation.

[EMD4ME]

The horse was "climbing" into the far turn, that woudn't have happened had he just drove on. You NEVER grab up the heavy favorite when you are in that position.....if you are going to get beat, you get beat sending, especially on that track vs that field. HE essentially got the horse beat because he shared win money with another horse.

He rode like he didn't know the situation.

Great points and yes, most of these idiots, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING, have no clue what the situation is.... pathetic.

When it's a no go, they kind of know the situation. Sadly, when it's an all out go, they still have no clue what's going on.

[Stillriledup]

Great points and yes, most of these idiots, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING, have no clue what the situation is.... pathetic.

When it's a no go, they kind of know the situation. Sadly, when it's an all out go, they still have no clue what's going on.

Excellent points. You would think they're sending a man to Mars or curing cancer, their problem is that they don't think like handicappers, its just get aboard, try and stay on and steer around the track and go where the wind takes you, no plan or clue.

[EMD4ME]

Excellent points. You would think they're sending a man to Mars or curing cancer, their problem is that they don't think like handicappers, its just get aboard, try and stay on and steer around the track and go where the wind takes you, no plan or clue.

Yesterday race 7. I loved the 6. Why? Because he came out of and was THE cause of a FAST middle half in his last race.

He shoots to the lead, does the same and dominates yesterday at a decent price.

Here's my subtle point: the 5 horse was stalking in second, right off his plank. Do you think the jockey on the 5 or 6 for that matter had any clue that the eventual winner possesses a lethal second and third quarter run going a mile?

Do you think either jock would use that information to their advantage?

99.999999999% NO. I'm not saying either jock made a mistake there. All I'm saying is I have zero confidence in the current jockey colony's preparation, mental aptitude and overall IQ.

I agree, it does look like they just get a leg up, generalize their plan and wing it.

[Stillriledup]

Yesterday race 7. I loved the 6. Why? Because he came out of and was THE cause of a FAST middle half in his last race.

He shoots to the lead, does the same and dominates yesterday at a decent price.

Here's my subtle point: the 5 horse was stalking in second, right off his plank. Do you think the jockey on the 5 or 6 for that matter had any clue that the eventual winner possesses a lethal second and third quarter run going a mile?

Do you think either jock would use that information to their advantage?

99.999999999% NO. I'm not saying either jock made a mistake there. All I'm saying is I have zero confidence in the current jockey colony's preparation, mental aptitude and overall IQ.

I agree, it does look like they just get a leg up, generalize their plan and wing it.

Lets just hope its stupidity and not something more sinister. Its like how people discuss officiating in sports, a ref makes a "bad call" but is it incompetence or "competence"?

You're also right, very few jocks, if any, know subtle nuances about all the other horses, these guys are out sitting home for hours each night pouring over the PPs and watching tape.

[Stillriledup]

Very subtly bad ride on the 1 horse in Race 2 at Golden Gate.

That horse needed to "roll" and go really fast and bottom them out, the guy grabbed into the horse really hard, let the 2nd contender stay in the race and that 1 horse isn't a great "sprinter" hes more of a grinder, if you watch his previous races, especially 2 back, he goes really fast, is "Sent" hard and responds well and the horse who beat him today (who was in that race) wasn't gaining on him even though he went fast internals.

Its tricky because its really hard to fault a jock who gets a VERY loose lead in pedestrian fractions, but for this particular horse, if he sends hard, and doesn't grab, he opens up 5 or more and probably goes all the way...or at worst, gets 2nd.

Its hard to really bang on the guy for this because if he opens up 8 and gets nailed, a lot of people would have said "what's the guy doing, where's he going". The way he rode was fine in general, but in this particular instance, it would have been better to roll and send the horse like it was a 2 furlong race and take your chances.

[cj]

I despise riders that choke frontrunners. Check out the Los Al horse that won at Santa Anita yesterday, that is how you ride a speed horse.

[Stillriledup]

I despise riders that choke frontrunners. Check out the Los Al horse that won at Santa Anita yesterday, that is how you ride a speed horse.

Yes, the guy rode like it was a 2 furlong race and got the cash.

[cj]

Yes, the guy rode like it was a 2 furlong race and got the cash.

I'd say more he just let the horse run and didn't fight him. He didn't go nuts pushing him early or anything.

[Stillriledup]

The kid riding the 2 at SA in Race 4, horrendous ride, got an unbeatable horse beat.

[cj]

The kid riding the 2 at SA in Race 4, horrendous ride, got an unbeatable horse beat.

I don't know about unbeatable, but it was very apprentice like.

[cj]

Pedroza gave a great ride in race 6 at SA...I don't know where that thread went.

[Stillriledup]

Pedroza gave a great ride in race 6 at SA...I don't know where that thread went.

Yes, he yelled at the 2 and told him "dont press me" and the guy on the 2 said "ok boss, your wish is my command". :D

Greatness personified!

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about the 5th tonight at Delta.

The guy on the 5 was strangling this horse at the top of the lane, just looked horrible sitting on the horse, like he had never sat on a horse before, certainly didnt look like an elite jock in America. And the 11, full of run late, the guy not urging at all, sitting motionless on the horse, not sure what that was all about, but i'm sure the Delta judges will look into the lack of effort and apply the appropriate punishment :D

[Stillriledup]

Heroic Marine tonight in the 7th at Penn National.

JW Lloyd was the rider. Yikes, could anyone look worse on a horse than this guy? Check him out down the backstretch, he's 50 wide and sitting on the horse like he's never sat on a horse before.....certainly not pleasing to the eye. :bang:

[Robert Fischer]

Quite annoying how Graham rode Hazards of Love.

he turned down several offers of superior positioning at various points, while racing unhurried along the rail, and then while riding 'subject' to whatever circumstances would happen, he then was extremely dramatic in sharply taking up his horse when entering the stretch. He was barely able to get third at the wire.
Very difficult job, but he let emotion enter his ride today.

[cnollfan]

I despise riders that choke frontrunners.

My number one pet peeve in racing is when I pick a horse to go wire to wire, the jockey doesn't let him run early, and a different horse, slower on paper, wins by going wire to wire.

I'm convinced that restraining a horse who wants to run takes as much or more energy out of him as running fast would have.

[Robert Fischer]

Quite annoying how Graham rode Hazards of Love.

he turned down several offers of superior positioning at various points, while racing unhurried along the rail, and then while riding 'subject' to whatever circumstances would happen, he then was extremely dramatic in sharply taking up his horse when entering the stretch. He was barely able to get third at the wire.
Very difficult job, but he let emotion enter his ride today.
(always do an )(honest) 'Postmortem'
"HAZARDS OF LOVE - Broke just under two lengths slow, settled on the inside, coasted along the rail on the far turn, was asked at the quarter-pole, checked sharply while lacking room outside the three-sixteenths, was blocked from that point until the sixteenth-pole, altered course to the outside and finished willingly to get the show but lost any chance at the victory in a tough trip."
= basically what I said, but this makes it sound like the "dramatic check" cost a winner his chance.

Trying to look back and be honest about it = I don't think he was obviously much the best or anything like that.

I do think that the rider had several chances mainly because of the way his post position turned out , and how the inside was actually wide open early where he had a good opportunity to ride aggressively and "improve position". From the comfort of my living room he had a bunch of chances to maneuver his 1500 pound beast while traveling 40mph A LOT BETTER DAMN IT! I think overall- as far as performance of the horse it was actually fairly close to his true ability. He saved energy all race, and even with the temper-tantrum that the rider threw, he had lots of energy for the run to the wire. Maybe I would have won or got the place if Graham had thugged-it-out and took a bigger slice of the pie from the other jockeys, and then barrelled into the stretch(from a much more advantageous position than what he allowed to be given).
But that is a LOT to ask from a jockey.
POSTMORTEM = I need to 'buck up'. I got about what I deserved.

My number one pet peeve in racing is when I pick a horse to go wire to wire, the jockey doesn't let him run early, and a different horse, slower on paper, wins by going wire to wire.

I'm convinced that restraining a horse who wants to run takes as much or more energy out of him as running fast would have.
That has to be frustrating! Good example.

[Stillriledup]

Billy the Kid rode the "winner" great in the first race today at SA. Great job by him making sure the 3 won the race.

[RunDustyRun]

Leparoux on the :9: Giant Crystal in GP R8....on a closing favored turf course at this distance, he takes a proven closer who likes to pass horses on the outside down to the rail and moves to the lead at the top of the stretch...of course she doesn't hang on and gets beat by a closer...did he not remember how he rode her last race?

[Stillriledup]

Leparoux on the :9: Giant Crystal in GP R8....on a closing favored turf course at this distance, he takes a proven closer who likes to pass horses on the outside down to the rail and moves to the lead at the top of the stretch...of course she doesn't hang on and gets beat by a closer...did he not remember how he rode her last race?

Remember? :lol:

No, these guys aren't exactly known for brain power.

[Inner Dirt]

Nothing beats an idiot rating a quick breaking horse stretching out to two turns for the first time in a field of speed-less plodders on a track favoring speed. I rarely see these type horses win from off the pace.

[Stillriledup]

Maybe trip handicappers ought to thank jocks for subtly "screwing up" or else there wouldn't be hidden performances to exploit the next time. The mistakes create more variation.

[Ocala Mike]

I am not usually a Mike Smith fan, but he gave the SoCal shipper, FAR RIGHT, a great ride in today's Smarty Jones at Oaklawn. The Lukas chalk was erratic, and bore out badly down the stretch, so Mikey cruised up the wide open rail. It helped that he rode the Lukas horse last time and knew he had a thing about bearing out.

[Ocala Mike]

Well, I'm just trying to get unfracked, Appy, and getting $7.40 on what looked like a $12-13 horse isn't gonna get me there. What little success I've had at the OP meeting so far this year has been tempered by the fact that literally every horse I caught has been cut in half in price vs. what i expected.

By the way, back to the title of this thread, I'm thinking Mr. Court should have read the book on the Lukas horse before he decided to give him that southpaw shot.

[Stillriledup]

What was the guy riding the 8 doing at Delta in the 6th? The favorite goes right past him on the inside down the backstretch.....is being off the rail a quicker route to the winners circle that being on the fence? Someone help me out here, i was always under the impression that saving ground was a quicker route home....but, according to the guy riding the 8 horse in the 6th at Delta, i guess not.

[Stillriledup]

Watch the replay of the last race tonight at Penn Nat. Watch the 1a horse, he breaks from the far outside post......breaks outward, the guy almost falls off the horse, rushes the horse like a wild man to the lead, looks around multiple times for some unknown reason...and then eventually wilts and comes to a dead top on the far turn. Watch this jock in the saddle, i dont remember ever seeing someone look so hopelessly incompetent before, its amazing that Penn National permitted this jock to actually ride in a race, i may as well have been on the horse, i couldn't have looked any worse in the saddle. Good god that was hard to watch.

[Stillriledup]

Quite annoying how Graham rode Hazards of Love.

he turned down several offers of superior positioning at various points, while racing unhurried along the rail, and then while riding 'subject' to whatever circumstances would happen, he then was extremely dramatic in sharply taking up his horse when entering the stretch. He was barely able to get third at the wire.
Very difficult job, but he let emotion enter his ride today.

Hazards racing now at FG in the 8th.

[Robert Fischer]

Hazards racing now at FG in the 8th.
^^looks like the public underlayed the obvious trouble...


Subtly Good ride today with Zayas on Consumer Credit in the 8th @ GP.
Pace seemed to slow down and Zayas refused to be boxed-in or denied an outside escape-route, without moving prematurely.

[Stillriledup]

^^looks like the public underlayed the obvious trouble...


Subtly Good ride today with Zayas on Consumer Credit in the 8th @ GP.
Pace seemed to slow down and Zayas refused to be boxed-in or denied an outside escape-route, without moving prematurely.

The horse was no good at all, struggled along getting easily beat by a turf horse. Would be looking to bet against this guy going forward in his next race if he's a short price.

[Robert Fischer]

The horse was no good at all, struggled along getting easily beat by a turf horse. Would be looking to bet against this guy going forward in his next race if he's a short price.

Good idea, I'll have to check it out if entered into a bettable race.

That over-dramatic stuff not only frequently costs placings, but the public tends to over-bet it next time.
'Obvious trouble' in general is a very bad bet.

[Stillriledup]

Good idea, I'll have to check it out if entered into a bettable race.

That over-dramatic stuff not only frequently costs placings, but the public tends to over-bet it next time.
'Obvious trouble' in general is a very bad bet.

Right. And, a lot of times the trouble is due to saving ground and getting locked in....what ends up happening is that the jock overcompensates the next time because the last thing he wants to do is get boxed in again, but the ground he loses trying to avoid the box-in ends up getting the horse beat anyway.

[Robert Fischer]

Right. And, a lot of times the trouble is due to saving ground and getting locked in....what ends up happening is that the jock overcompensates the next time because the last thing he wants to do is get boxed in again, but the ground he loses trying to avoid the box-in ends up getting the horse beat anyway.

Yup.

And The fact that the horse and rider keep finding themselves 'subject' to trouble can correlate to factors like poor starts, lack of tactical speed, etc...

A fresh example of "obvious trouble" was Far Right.
He's a cool horse, but he had that obvious trouble and then the public bet him like crazy in the Smarty Jones.

Even better, Mr. Z fell apart, and Bayered ran flat as a football, so the public who underlayed Far Right in the Smarty Jones is patting themselves on the back and feeling like a trip-handicapper.

Like you pointed out, some of these plays offer value over a 'series' of races.

[Stillriledup]

Yup.

And The fact that the horse and rider keep finding themselves 'subject' to trouble can correlate to factors like poor starts, lack of tactical speed, etc...

A fresh example of "obvious trouble" was Far Right.
He's a cool horse, but he had that obvious trouble and then the public bet him like crazy in the Smarty Jones.

Even better, Mr. Z fell apart, and Bayered ran flat as a football, so the public who underlayed Far Right in the Smarty Jones is patting themselves on the back and feeling like a trip-handicapper.

Like you pointed out, some of these plays offer value over a 'series' of races.

This is exactly right, this is what happens a lot of time in DQs where one horse being too slow causes another horse to drift over to the 'clear spot' when if the slower horse had just been faster, the other horse wouldn't have drifted into him.

I agree with horses who find trouble, a lot of times its due to not being handy enough. Its the same reason a 4 cylinder car would have trouble on the road that a ferrari might not.

[Stillriledup]

Agapito Delgadillo still gets quality mounts. I guess there's some reason why, maybe he's a really nice fellow?

[Stillriledup]

Maybe i need my eyes checked, but it looked to me that in the 9th at Sam Houston, the guy on the 8 just kind of moved over and let the 1 thru on the inside. It appeared that the 8 was on the lead, not sure why you would let someone inside of you......strategy?

[Stillriledup]

Amazing ride by the guy on the 6 horse at FG in the 8th. That was awesome. That's how you DRIVE! (quoting Will Smith in Bad Boys)

[Stillriledup]

Absolutely Terrible ride by DP Vergara in the 6th at TuP. He was on a virually unbeatable horse in a race with 0 speed on paper, they go the first qtr in 23 and change and he's about 400 lengths back. He proceeds to go about 50 wide and gets beat about a length. This horse should have been out into the race, close up like he was on April 30th, 2014. The guy rode as if he didn't know there was no pace in the race and just dropped the horse a million miles behind like he did on Dec 28th. This was a perfect example of a jock just getting a leg up and not even thinking.

[EMD4ME]

Absolutely Terrible ride by DP Vergara in the 6th at TuP. He was on a virually unbeatable horse in a race with 0 speed on paper, they go the first qtr in 23 and change and he's about 400 lengths back. He proceeds to go about 50 wide and gets beat about a length. This horse should have been out into the race, close up like he was on April 30th, 2014. The guy rode as if he didn't know there was no pace in the race and just dropped the horse a million miles behind like he did on Dec 28th. This was a perfect example of a jock just getting a leg up and not even thinking.

I hit 4/5 and that was the horse I needed to complete the pick 5. Paid about $3K to the winner. Mine was obviously bigger. Your talking about mental midgets here that couldn't pump gas if their life depended upon it.

[Stillriledup]

I hit 4/5 and that was the horse I needed to complete the pick 5. Paid about $3K to the winner. Mine was obviously bigger. Your talking about mental midgets here that couldn't pump gas if their life depended upon it.

No doubt. You expect a little more from them, but that seems to be expecting too much. Not asking them to cure cancer or split the atom, just asking them to have a clue and a concept, think like a handicapper and use some brain power for once.....a lot of these guys can't even do the right thing by accident.

In Race 5 the winner had the outside post, didn't show much real speed on paper, but the guy put that horse into the race and rode what appeared (at least for that race) to be the best part of the track....he rode the same exact race Vergara should have rode.

[EMD4ME]

No doubt. You expect a little more from them, but that seems to be expecting too much. Not asking them to cure cancer or split the atom, just asking them to have a clue and a concept, think like a handicapper and use some brain power for once.....a lot of these guys can't even do the right thing by accident.

In Race 5 the winner had the outside post, didn't show much real speed on paper, but the guy put that horse into the race and rode what appeared (at least for that race) to be the best part of the track....he rode the same exact race Vergara should have rode.

What is the one thing taxi drivers can't do well? Drive
What is the one thing jockey's can't do well most of the time? Ride/navigate a horse.

Jocks remind me of the 2 blondes I knew who drove to Disneyland, saw the sign that said "Disneyland Left", turned around, drove home 1200 miles because they thought the sign indicated that Disneyland was gone.

[Stillriledup]

What is the one thing taxi drivers can't do well? Drive
What is the one thing jockey's can't do well most of the time? Ride/navigate a horse.

Jocks remind me of the 2 blondes I knew who drove to Disneyland, saw the sign that said "Disneyland Left", turned around, drove home 1200 miles because they thought the sign indicated that Disneyland was gone.

Great point about the Taxi drivers, its not like when you leave the cab you're thinking "man, that guy was a very skillful driver".

The only difference between the the 2 blondes and the jocks is that the 2 blondes are smarter. Otherwise, its the same. :D

[EMD4ME]

Great point about the Taxi drivers, its not like when you leave the cab you're thinking "man, that guy was a very skillful driver".

The only difference between the the 2 blondes and the jocks is that the 2 blondes are smarter. Otherwise, its the same. :D

I once professionally embarrassed Channing Hill back in 2006 or 2007 at AQU. He hated me SO much, he screamed at the top of his lungs "I'm going to come up there and beat the **** out of you" in front of a decently attended AQU paddock. I screamed back "If you come up here the only thing that might happen is you learning how to ride after I beat some sense into you".

The whole paddock started laughing. He never came up.

2 races later, he totally botched a race. I let him have it ( I didn't bet him, almost ever) despite not having a wager on him in that race. He turned purple.

I like to think I chased him out of town!!!!!!!! He's the only pin head who could lose on a ready to go Hushion horse.

[Stillriledup]

The guy on the co 9-5 in the last race at TuP rode in Panic mode. The guy looked like a HUGE anvil on the horse, couldn't make any speed and just shoved this poor filly the entire way. He DID have the horse in perfect position, but just had no talent to make her run...and moved like a jock who might as well have weighed 150.....couldn't beat the 6 horse to the wire, wasn't even competitive to be frank.

[RunDustyRun]

Check out the bugboy Murrill on the :1: horse for a great ride in the first at Fairgrounds....rarely seen a jock sit so chilly on a 59-1 shot....he literally never moved as he nursed the horse through slow fractions...he finally moved at the eighth pole and when challenged by the chalk went left handed with the whip to
outfinish the rival...don't follow FG and know nothing about the jockey but that was a great ride

[Stillriledup]

What was the guy on the 3 horse in the 7th at AQ doing? Rode like he never rode before. That wasn't his first lifetime ride, right? :bang:

[Stillriledup]

Just an endless list of bad rides.

What was the guy on the 4 horse doing at Sunland in the 9th? She's a closer on paper, the race is jam packed with speed and the guy is throwing the lines riding her like he's in a 2 furlong race, and needless to say, she backs up late, but raced well all things considered.

Why not race her like you did last time, she made a good kick, 2 of her last 4 starts were fast closing efforts....so the guy is dueling today in between horses no less? :bang:

[Robert Fischer]

Gulfstream occasionally has these interesting cheap claiming races where a horse will drop down in class to it's proper level, and where the low% trainer will have been running the horse at a silly non-competitive class level previously.
Sometimes the combo of lousy connections + ugly running lines, makes for a square price even though that horse has been running fast times up in class.

Today we had Golden Emily in r5 GP.

The low% jock (although he has solid ROI and ITM numbers in limited number of sprints), made a bad move today. Somehow he manages to go from the outside post to checking on heels inside relatively early in the race.
Then he gamely tried to force the horse through the rail (which never opened). Eventually the horse didn't change leads.
Wasn't evident from 1 viewing whether the leads was related to the bonehead ride, or an inherent fault of the filly.

Synopsis: When dropping way down in class, don't try to force through traffic for no reason...

[Stillriledup]

Not sure if this goes under subtly great ride or terrible ride or neither of the above, in the 6th race at Aqu today, it seemed like the 1 and 10 would duel, i don't remember NFs Destininy being a horse who "grabs" and rates, but there he was today, getting grabbed and rated while other jocks weren't rushing to hold any kind of position to prevent the "most likely winner" from getting the trip he wanted. If he was forced to duel inside the 10 horse, the 3 might have won.

Interesting race tactics between the 1 and 10 who both are one dimensional animals for the most part.

[Stillriledup]

Did i just see the guy on the 5 horse in today's 7th at Aqu go wide when he had a chance early to save ground?

What was that. He was 2 and 3 wide the entire way, in a short field with a closer from the far outside post....angle to the rail and just stay there.

I didnt get that ride at all.

[Stillriledup]

Nothing subtle about the greatness from Deshawn Parker in the 4th at SH tonight. Riding the 1 horse he appeared to have no hope to hit the board with 70 yards to go and somehow got this filly, who was in all sorts of traffic, to surge on the line and be in the win photo, miraculous finish in this race, what a great race, the winner had all the momentum down the center of the track and appeared a stone lock late in the lane, but this Parker just came bursting thru to JUST miss. Great ride.

[Stillriledup]

Sexy Swingin Walk w jock DA Osorio extremely wide on both turns in a 7 horse field, back to back X wide rides on this one.....not sure what this guy is doing or thinking. Not good stuff from Osorio.

Turfway Park Feb 7

[Stillriledup]

Tonite Tonite in the 4th today at Aqu, the guy just had the horse way too far back early, 23.88 first quarter and the guy was riding like this was a mile and a half race, not sure if that was such brilliant strategy, didnt ride this one like his life depended on winning.

[Ocala Mike]

Not so subtle but great. Didn't have the horse, but Jon Court's ride on the :1: in the 4th at OP today is what you want the boy to do for you. Patiently sitting the rail, then vigorous, aggressive left-handed urging all the way to the wire and beyond at 15/1. Take that ride every time!

[Stillriledup]

Wow, you want to talk about the red sea parting? My goodness, Russell "Moses" Baze just parted that "stuff" in Race 5, couldn't have made life easier for him to run down the chalk who got perfect stalking trip.

[Stillriledup]

The guy riding the 2 horse at Penn Nat in the last race....gotta say that looked a bit shady.

Of course. i'm sure Penn Nat will "investigate thoroughly" and "get to the bottom of it". :D

[Robert Fischer]

Caballero probably made some errors on the Hopkins horse in tonight's penn allowance r4.

The horse was a conservative estimate of 3 lengths the best(after seeing tonight's race), but he broke slowly, then rushed up, then opened a big lead, then understandably began to tire, than swished the tail under heavy whip action and was finally beaten about a half length at the wire.

It's possible that these errors were simply the product of an uncontrollable bad-actor, unfortunately there is a good probability that bad-actor was the rider for a significant bit of those conservative -3.5 Lengths..

You probably will not get a big price next time on the 4, but you still may as well throw him on the list.

As far as the jock, I do not have a book on him. It's always possible that this was a rare 'tough' ride, or that he's simply not as comfortable @ Penn (he has 3 mounts @ penn and seems to be a PRX regular).

Take from this what you will. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Caballero probably made some errors on the Hopkins horse in tonight's penn allowance r4.

The horse was a conservative estimate of 3 lengths the best(after seeing tonight's race), but he broke slowly, then rushed up, then opened a big lead, then understandably began to tire, than swished the tail under heavy whip action and was finally beaten about a half length at the wire.

It's possible that these errors were simply the product of an uncontrollable bad-actor, unfortunately there is a good probability that bad-actor was the rider for a significant bit of those conservative -3.5 Lengths..

You probably will not get a big price next time on the 4, but you still may as well throw him on the list.

As far as the jock, I do not have a book on him. It's always possible that this was a rare 'tough' ride, or that he's simply not as comfortable @ Penn (he has 3 mounts @ penn and seems to be a PRX regular).

Take from this what you will. :ThmbUp:

Really odd ride on the 3 there...not sure what the guy was doing w a stone front runner.

[Robert Fischer]

Really odd ride on the 3 there...not sure what the guy was doing w a stone front runner.

That was a weird ride also.

I wrote the wrong race there, meant r3 #4 Sense of Peace for my writeup. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

That was a weird ride also.

I wrote the wrong race there, meant r3 #4 Sense of Peace for my writeup. :ThmbUp:

I didn't notice you put r4 i started reading what you wrote and knew exactly what you were talking about.

[Robert Fischer]

I didn't notice you put r4 i started reading what you wrote and knew exactly what you were talking about.
I just watched it again, that was brutal! :D
He broke late (may have been the horse's fault)
Then -sometimes you see a patient ride from there on out - not Hector :cool:, he rushes up to circle the field quickly, then ever so briefly settles on the lead before opening up by 5.

Even then, it's debatable that he still wins if he the jock hand-urges him home. I couldn't tell for sure. The jock was loading-up with some haymakers. These were power-shots with the stick. Nobody can say he was weak with the stick after that race. Horse visibly happened to be the type who doesn't respond favorably to the whip. Going in and out a bit and finally swishing the tail.

[Stillriledup]

The Kid riding the 6 in the finale tonight at CT......i liked where he was, stay off the duelers, make one move, he showed some manhood coming thru the inside on the far turn around a stopper, but what i didnt like was all this pumping and active handling, he was kind of "getting in the horse's way" a bit, too much pushing and jerking the reigns, that wasn't helping at all, this seemed like a small filly who was running well, he blew very wide and lost some ground because he was too busy jumping up and down.

[Robert Fischer]

another (subtly) great ride from Borel on ROCKET TIME

12/21/14
Notes
rocket time - slightly rough gaited at the start, borel got him 3 lengths by 'playing the 1st turn', perfect tempo on the lead(perfect balance of maximum extension of lead without pushing the pace to a self-destructive level, and a perfect(maximum) amount of resting prior to the far turn without creating a more stressful (head to head)confrontation than necessary entering the stretch) solid fundamentally sound finish

- he's in today's Essex stakes.
While it's great when horse and rider have the ability to work in perfect tandem and maximize efficiency, it's also a drawback. Here was a horse whose raw performance was arguably equal to or weaker than his rivals in the 50k stakes last time, yet was the favorite in that race and shows the paper stats of winning by 2.5 lengths. Will he get that same ultra-efficient trip today?

[EMD4ME]

Race 1 AQU. Needed M Franco to get the 2 up for 3rd. Horse leveled off at the 3/16, was motoring home in the 5-6 path and under a left hand whip. Franco whips right handed 100 yards out, had to snatch the horse up a bit as OF COURSE the horse moved in a path under HIS STUPID right hand whip, he loses 3rd by a nostril.

Why not keep a left hand whip as your horse takes off at the 1/8 pole????

And this is from a 25% jock....

[Robert Fischer]

John Valazquez with a subtly nice ride on Gold Sheild in the Gulfstream maiden today.

Going 9f so you had horses fighting for that 1st turn. JV's heavy favorite broke slowly and and he patiently manuevered into the clear and let his quality and stamina put him in an excellent chance to win. One of those cases where less=more. He didn't try to force the heavy favorite to break faster than he naturally wanted (and get caught in the turn traffic). He didn't try to cut the corner inside... He just rode the horse and said "if you are really the best horse, I'll give you an opportunity to prove it".

[Stillriledup]

Not sure if the guy riding the 1 in the 6th rode an amazing race or a terrible one.

Thoughts?

[Robert Fischer]

Not sure if the guy riding the 1 in the 6th rode an amazing race or a terrible one.

Thoughts?

gulfstream (1?), which track?

[Stillriledup]

gulfstream (1?), which track?
oops sorry, Aqu.

[Robert Fischer]

Not sure if the guy riding the 1 in the 6th (aqu) rode an amazing race or a terrible one.

Thoughts?

that was pretty damn good :ThmbUp:

His horse couldn't keep pace, but he saved ground and kept riding, and let the other horses and jocks take themselves out of the race. Almost won.

[Stillriledup]

that was pretty damn good :ThmbUp:

His horse couldn't keep pace, but he saved ground and kept riding, and let the other horses and jocks take themselves out of the race. Almost won.

I was mad because i bet the horse and hated to lose by a nose when i know i was going to win in one more step, but that horse did the same thing last time, he "climbed" a bit inside, but once he leveled off, he really got focused and kicked...i think the guy probably did well to not "panic" and start throwing leather at this horse on the far turn, he rode like he knew the horse well.

[Robert Fischer]

i think the guy probably did well to not "panic" and start throwing leather at this horse on the far turn, he rode like he knew the horse well.

yea, some guys would have beat the horse off his lead , and other guys would have gone into the slow-motion whipping thing, where they've quit riding.

[Stillriledup]

yea, some guys would have beat the horse off his lead , and other guys would have gone into the slow-motion whipping thing, where they've quit riding.

Don't cha love that, the "Fake whipping" when they're trying to stay out of the tri. :D

Make it look good incase Curtis Linnell decides to "investigate" :D

[Stillriledup]

The horse was no good at all, struggled along getting easily beat by a turf horse. Would be looking to bet against this guy going forward in his next race if he's a short price.

Somehow "Hazards" got a 94 Beyer, his best in a LONG time and yet, he seemed visually to be "no good".

Odd. He's racing in a few mins, lets see what happens.

[Robert Fischer]

Don't cha love that, the "Fake whipping" when they're trying to stay out of the tri. :D

Make it look good incase Curtis Linnell decides to "investigate" :D

yea, i don't know what the hell the purpose of that slow-motion whipping thing is?

I don't honestly it's to stay out of the tri or something obviously nefarious like that. It may be something to appease the fans or to appease some superficial rule...
I honestly have no clue what the hell that is about. ha.

It certainly doesn't make me any happier. When the horses roar into the stretch and your horse is on the rail beginning to get passed for first, and that slow-motion whipping and overall dull body-language from the jock starts..., it's like a slow death :D.
A slow painful death for your trifecta and place and show wagers.
That's not a very popular time for the jockey.

[Stillriledup]

LOL at the jock on the 3 horse at GG in the 6th race, this horse could never have gotten beaten in life if this guy was even borderline competent. This thing wins easy with any other jock, its amazing this guy even stayed on the horse, looked like he was about to fall off the entire way. Yikes! :D

[Robert Fischer]

Nice job by Jose Ortiz in the 10th today on Grand Tito.

Riding for Grupo-7C and trainer Delgado, he was unseated in the gate, got back on saved ground and got up for 2nd.

[Stillriledup]

Awesome ride by Brice Blanc on Lady Asano at SA...she's a tricky horse to ride, she has some power but isn't the biggest "Tryer" in the world, he saved some ground early and waited patiently and didnt' really rush her into the race, excellent ride.

On the Flip side, the guy riding the 2 stopped riding at the end costing himself a board spot.....and of course, i needed her for 3rd to hit the tri.

[Stillriledup]

Race 2 today at SA, you have Britney Eurton relay information about the 1 horse who she was told was "Sending" and then the funniest thing happens when the gate opens, the strangles and so does everyone else, the 7 is gifted the race and the other jocks are riding like their life depends on the favorite being able to go as slow as possible on the front end.

Mission accomplished.

[Stillriledup]

What was with the guy riding the 6 horse in the 5th at Los Al? Seemed like he strangled the horse the entire way and never asked him for run at any point and was seen traveling under the wire under a hammerlock.

Very fishy handling.

[flatstats]

Unless you are a jockey's agent or Mom you should never fret over a ride a jockey makes.

X Jockey has a bad ride and you lose $$. But because that jockey had a bad ride, or made a mistake, some other horse wins and many punters WON.

In the next race you make your bet and the jockey on the favourite (the more intended winner) makes the mistake this time. You WON.

See it like that and handicapping becomes so much easier.

[EMD4ME]

Race 4 Belmont today.

2 chalks break 1-2. Both Cancel and Jose Ortiz get into a fight over who will OVER choke harder vs. the other. They allow Taylor Rice (yes the famous and intimidating muscular speed demon of a jockey) to get a 7 length lead on them in moderate splits.

Andy and Richie will have a field day with this one on trips and traps.

[EMD4ME]

All I can hear is Richie saying:

Get your position going forward &

Once you make a decision, commit to a decision.

These idiots get out 1st and in fear of dueling BOTH over choke out of it.

Anyone who ever says that the NY colony is solid needs their brain examined.

By far the worst riding colony in NY in decades.

[aaron]

All I can hear is Richie saying:

Get your position going forward &

Once you make a decision, commit to a decision.

These idiots get out 1st and in fear of dueling BOTH over choke out of it.

Anyone who ever says that the NY colony is solid needs their brain examined.

By far the worst riding colony in NY in decades.
Couldn't agree more. I have been saying this,since Dominguez was forced to leave.

[Stillriledup]

All I can hear is Richie saying:

Get your position going forward &

Once you make a decision, commit to a decision.

These idiots get out 1st and in fear of dueling BOTH over choke out of it.

Anyone who ever says that the NY colony is solid needs their brain examined.

By far the worst riding colony in NY in decades.

The best horse loses a LOT at this place because of this stuff. Jocks just in their own way too often. This place is a field day for trip handicappers but the only problem is that if you catch a note off a trip, it's likely that you will get the same bozo riding the horse back or another similar bozo taking his place.

If bozo the clown ever committed a crime, his best hiding place would be in the NY jocks room, he would blend right in like he was wearing camouflage.

[EMD4ME]

The best horse loses a LOT at this place because of this stuff. Jocks just in their own way too often. This place is a field day for trip handicappers but the only problem is that if you catch a note off a trip, it's likely that you will get the same bozo riding the horse back or another similar bozo taking his place.

If bozo the clown ever committed a crime, his best hiding place would be in the NY jocks room, he would blend right in like he was wearing camouflage.

Do you know how many times I need to follow a horse back 3 or 4 times as the same crime is committed again and again.

I miss Ramon.....So bad...

[Stillriledup]

Do you know how many times I need to follow a horse back 3 or 4 times as the same crime is committed again and again.

I miss Ramon.....So bad...

What would be better than Ramon is to find a jock who's talented, but in the bottom of the top 10 who rides great and moves up horses off these 'top jocks'. That way you can get prices. W Ramon you win, but you get 3.60

[EMD4ME]

What would be better than Ramon is to find a jock who's talented, but in the bottom of the top 10 who rides great and moves up horses off these 'top jocks'. That way you can get prices. W Ramon you win, but you get 3.60

Eric Cancel was the last hope but he had the rail in race 4, had the lead, Jose intimidated him and he choked out. His horse lost action while steadying back.

You'd like to think he'd learn from that but call me a pessimist, he won't.

You never know, maybe Iherd, Jose and Angel befriended him now.

Wouldn't be surprised. If that's the case, it only gets worse around here.

[Stillriledup]

Eric Cancel was the last hope but he had the rail in race 4, had the lead, Jose intimidated him and he choked out. His horse lost action while steadying back.

You'd like to think he'd learn from that but call me a pessimist, he won't.

You never know, maybe Iherd, Jose and Angel befriended him now.

Wouldn't be surprised. If that's the case, it only gets worse around here.

He's been 'recruited' most likely. :(

[EMD4ME]

One can have a stoke or a blood vessel burst watching these pinheads.

Jose Ortiz with another massacre of a ride on Equilateral.

Undecisive from gate, using horse for nothing early. Gets nice trip on backstretch and far turn, refused to angle out for run. Gets caught in tight at the 1/8 pole.

He took all the horse's late burst away by wasting energy early with no plan. Put a MAN on that horse, he wins for fun.

Had this horse marked down from his return race as a "new horse, back in form". It was validated with his deceptive good turf run last time out.

You get 7/1 on a super live horse (which is a miracle) and then you get amateur hour out there.

[EMD4ME]

And to give credit where credit is due, I commend Iherd for herding in and putting his brother in a spot where he could've been killed at the 1/8th.

I actually respect that.

That inward movement might've cost his brother and me the race but I have to admire his tenaciousness to win at all costs.

[Stillriledup]

Good ride than bad ride by the boy in the first at SA on the 5.

Carried the 6 out very far, but then inexplicably lost lengths of ground diving down into the 1 path. Stay out in your lane, quickest way between 2 points is a straight line.

[Exotic1]

One can have a stoke or a blood vessel burst watching these pinheads.

Jose Ortiz with another massacre of a ride on Equilateral.

Undecisive from gate, using horse for nothing early. Gets nice trip on backstretch and far turn, refused to angle out for run. Gets caught in tight at the 1/8 pole.

He took all the horse's late burst away by wasting energy early with no plan. Put a MAN on that horse, he wins for fun.

Had this horse marked down from his return race as a "new horse, back in form". It was validated with his deceptive good turf run last time out.

You get 7/1 on a super live horse (which is a miracle) and then you get amateur hour out there.

Unfkgbelievable.

[EMD4ME]

Unfkgbelievable.


He had no clue there was so much speed in the race.

It's get a leg up and wing it out there.

[Stillriledup]

What kind of ride was that on the 4 horse in race 3 at penn Nat? The guy did everything in his power to not be 1st or 2nd. Kept the horse 40 miles behind, than made a big move and went 567 wide, than lugged in late when he was gaining on the 1 for 2nd.

[Exotic1]

He had no clue there was so much speed in the race.

It's get a leg up and wing it out there.

I need 2 weeks to cool off. Insane.

He had to beat 2 horses in the race, the #4 and #6

[EMD4ME]

I need 2 weeks to cool off. Insane.

He had to beat 2 horses in the race, the #4 and #6

A big part of me wishes Iherd would've crunched him in midstretch, Jose falls off and cracks an ankle. Don't wish anyone serious harm, just minor temporary injuries that heal that keep one less 1 pinhead away from the track for awhile.

The naive part of me thinks they could sit back watch replays (while they're out) and realize how STUPID they are but.....

The rational side of me realizes that was an insane thought.

I remind myself that STUPID people aren't intelligent enough to know or realize that they are STUPID, hence why they will forever BE stupid.

IDK about you but this whole PA thing helps me release some steam :)

I'm not used to betting from home all the time. For 35 years, I've been able to walk down to the paddock/apron and just let Mr/Mrs. Stupid know exactly why they are stupid. I'm missing not being there.

[ReplayRandall]

A big part of me wishes Iherd would've crunched him in midstretch, Jose falls off and cracks an ankle. Don't wish anyone serious harm, just minor temporary injuries that heal that keep one less 1 pinhead away from the track for awhile.

The naive part of me thinks they could sit back watch replays (while they're out) and realize how STUPID they are but.....

The rational side of me realizes that was an insane thought.

I remind myself that STUPID people aren't intelligent enough to know or realize that they are STUPID, hence why they will forever BE stupid.

IDK about you but this whole PA thing helps me release some steam :)

I'm not used to betting from home all the time. For 35 years, I've been able to walk down to the paddock/apron and just let Mr/Mrs. Stupid know exactly why they are stupid. I'm missing not being there.

$500 beats

$5000 Beats

$50,000 BEATS

I wonder why they all feel the same to me?

Can't stop now, I've traveled these 38 years so far, might as well go the distance

It's funny, but ten minutes later, I'm back in the game... :cool:

[EMD4ME]

$500 beats

$5000 Beats

$50,000 BEATS

I wonder why they all feel the same to me?

Can't stop now, I've traveled these 38 years so far, might as well go the distance

It's funny, but ten minutes later, I'm back in the game... :cool:


You know what.... I feel the exact same way. It doesn't matter if it's for $500 or $50000 I get annoyed.

It's truly as if I'm playing a video game and my high score got effected. Very annoying!

But 10 minutes later, I'm digging into the next card LOL.

[Stillriledup]

Race 7 at SA there were 9 'need the lead' types but when I watched the race there was a bunch of guys sitting there like it was a 7 mile race. The race wasn't ridden like it looked on paper.

[Ocala Mike]

SRU, this is what happens when jocks read the form and "handicap" the race. I've seen countless races where it looks like there's absolutely no speed, and 6 horses go out of the gate hell-bent on the lead.

Conversely, when the race looks on paper like a 9-horse battle for the lead, the jocks all sit back waiting for Christmas.

[Stillriledup]

SRU, this is what happens when jocks read the form and "handicap" the race. I've seen countless races where it looks like there's absolutely no speed, and 6 horses go out of the gate hell-bent on the lead.

Conversely, when the race looks on paper like a 9-horse battle for the lead, the jocks all sit back waiting for Christmas.

No doubt. This is why we don't need them handicapping and manipulating the running styles of the horses. If I was a judge this wouldn't go on, speeds would be ridden like speeds or jocks would be slapped with lack of effort fines and suspensions If I thought those fines were applicable.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why do I get the feeling that people who actually win at the races don't spend all this energy complaining about perceived poor jockey skills...

Just sayin'

[cj]

Why do I get the feeling that people who actually win at the races don't spend all this energy complaining about perceived poor jockey skills...

Just sayin'

Bad rides can be frustrating, but dwelling on them is bad for the bottom line. I hate the way the guys ride on the NYRA circuit these days, but since I bet it more than others I just adapt best I can and build it into the price I'll accept.

[Stillriledup]

Bad ride by the guy on the 8 horse in Parx Finale, if you have the outside stall and you are a pressed stalker, you don't put yourself in a position to be the rider on the inside, you be the presser not the pressed.

[Stillriledup]

Why do I get the feeling that people who actually win at the races don't spend all this energy complaining about perceived poor jockey skills...

Just sayin'

You're missing the point of the thread. It's to help owners, trainers and jocks and bettors, it's an educational tool, not a sounding board for complaints.

[EMD4ME]

Why do I get the feeling that people who actually win at the races don't spend all this energy complaining about perceived poor jockey skills...

Just sayin'

Because the people who actually win at this game, the people who are used to winning, the people who find a loss as shocking actually do get really frustrated/pissed off when a pinhead (being nice here) F it all up with a completely bonehead decision/stiff job.

[taxicab]

Why do I get the feeling that people who actually win at the races don't spend all this energy complaining about perceived poor jockey skills...

Just sayin'

Good point...
Bad rides and troubled trips don't really fry me.
I think in the long term they all balance out.
On some occasions you can have a bad ride/troubled trip cost you a bundle,but a few months later you can cash a big ticket when a horse you need hangs a nose on one that took a bad ride/troubled trip.
I guess it's the same with inquiries......they kind of even out.
It's when I'm not getting bad rides and troubled trips that I'm concerned.....that means I'm betting on no chance slow horses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because the people who actually win at this game, the people who are used to winning, the people who find a loss as shocking actually do get really frustrated/pissed off when a pinhead (being nice here) F it all up with a completely bonehead decision/stiff job.stiff job...yup...they're all out there stiffing horses left and right...

Maybe if I'm lucky, you'll take my reply to mean I think every ride is honest and 100% pure effort... :lol:

[Stillriledup]

stiff job...yup...they're all out there stiffing horses left and right...

Maybe if I'm lucky, you'll take my reply to mean I think every ride is honest and 100% pure effort... :lol:

There's a lot of jockey shenanigans going on and do you know why?

Because no racing jurisdiction is investigating it or doing anything about it. The guys have free reign.

They could stand near the entrance to the jocks room divvying up cash with a big sheet of bets while speaking loudly about their plans and guess what would happen? Nothing.

[PaceAdvantage]

yup...i'm sure... :rolleyes:

Especially at NYRA where nobody is watching anything closely...for years now.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :bang: :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

yup...i'm sure... :rolleyes:

Especially at NYRA where nobody is watching anything closely...for years now.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :bang: :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you serious? Like, for real?

[PaceAdvantage]

Are you serious? Like, for real?Are you? Like for real?

Do you even read what's happened at NYRA over the years...the things people have been shitcanned for over there? Things you and I wouldn't even dream would cost someone their job...maybe you're not as tuned in as you would have people believe.

[HuggingTheRail]

Bad rides can be frustrating, but dwelling on them is bad for the bottom line. I hate the way the guys ride on the NYRA circuit these days, but since I bet it more than others I just adapt best I can and build it into the price I'll accept.

Cj, how so - just a flat premium over acceptable odds, or do you do it based on a specific jock and/or scenario, etc?

[EMD4ME]

Are you? Like for real?

Do you even read what's happened at NYRA over the years...the things people have been shitcanned for over there? Things you and I wouldn't even dream would cost someone their job...maybe you're not as tuned in as you would have people believe.

I read them every day and to be clear, I have attended live racing at NYRA for over 33 years. Not in the backyard drinking beer with $2 bettors but in the VIP room with "various" personalities to put it politely. There is no better way to know than to be there and hear firsthand.

I know and hear stuff that I would never post on here. I keep those facts to myself BUT because of what I know and hear, I do formulate opinions. Good and bad.

I wasn't knocking you with my question. I wanted to know if you were serious about how no shenanigans can ever happen because they are closely watched. Evidently you are. OK, we'll leave it at that PA.

To be clear and for the record, I love NYRA, I am loyal and give them my business as opposed to shuffling handle over to Capital OTB where they offer much higher rebates. They are and continue to be my favorite circuit to follow.

[EMD4ME]

There's a lot of jockey shenanigans going on and do you know why?

Because no racing jurisdiction is investigating it or doing anything about it. The guys have free reign.

They could stand near the entrance to the jocks room divvying up cash with a big sheet of bets while speaking loudly about their plans and guess what would happen? Nothing.

You have me in stitches....I could just see it now.

[PaceAdvantage]

I read them every day and to be clear, I have attended live racing at NYRA for over 33 years. Not in the backyard drinking beer with $2 bettors but in the VIP room with "various" personalities to put it politely. There is no better way to know than to be there and hear firsthand.

I know and hear stuff that I would never post on here. I keep those facts to myself BUT because of what I know and hear, I do formulate opinions. Good and bad.

I wasn't knocking you with my question. I wanted to know if you were serious about how no shenanigans can ever happen because they are closely watched. Evidently you are. OK, we'll leave it at that PA.

To be clear and for the record, I love NYRA, I am loyal and give them my business as opposed to shuffling handle over to Capital OTB where they offer much higher rebates. They are and continue to be my favorite circuit to follow.I don't care whether you are loyal to NYRA or not. But to deny that they aren't closely watched on ALL ASPECTS ever since the state went looking for any possible reason to **** NYRA over - that's naive at best.

Hell, when they are booting off racing officials and jock agents (http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-official-two-jockeys-agents-barred-nyra-tracks) for sharing an InCompass password, you have to know they are under the eye. To state -- "They could stand near the entrance to the jocks room divvying up cash with a big sheet of bets while speaking loudly about their plans and guess what would happen? Nothing." -- like SRU did in a prior reply given the current environment at NYRA is simply ludicrous. And for you to agree with that (and the way you came at me for my reply to SRU tells me that you DO agree with that), tells me a lot about you.

[EMD4ME]

I don't care whether you are loyal to NYRA or not. But to deny that they aren't closely watched on ALL ASPECTS ever since the state went looking for any possible reason to **** NYRA over - that's naive at best.

Hell, when they are booting off racing officials and jock agents (http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-official-two-jockeys-agents-barred-nyra-tracks) for sharing an InCompass password, you have to know they are under the eye. To state -- "They could stand near the entrance to the jocks room divvying up cash with a big sheet of bets while speaking loudly about their plans and guess what would happen? Nothing." -- like SRU did in a prior reply given the current environment at NYRA is simply ludicrous. And for you to agree with that (and the way you came at me for my reply to SRU tells me that you DO agree with that), tells me a lot about you.

When did I agree with his statement? All I said was 'he has me in stitches'. Come on, THAT was funny PA. "I could see it now" was a reference to me visualizing his silly example.

[EMD4ME]

SUBTLY AWESOMELY RIDE BY JUNIOR and SUBTLY BRUTALLY BAD RIDE BY THE OVERRATED HALL OF SHAMER JV.

Don't know what Clement is thinking, gives this over rated Hall of Shamer a leg up again in the Suburban after his subtly terrible ride in the Met.

He gets a perfect first 1/2 mile in the Suburban and the most over rated, terrible jockey in my era, JV, somehow takes Tonalist and finds a way to waste energy and a gives him a subtly poor trip. JV was last and wide after 3/8ths. Has a choice, control when he wants to go and go wide (and so far the inside was not the best part of track) OR go in between. If you're on the best, don't get cute. Hall of Shamer decides to go in between and that's where it got fun and I loved it!!! Junior pushes up a hair while on rail, enticing HOSer to go as well. JV gets into a slight check into the far turn and more importantly wasted horse and took starch out of Tonalist (with his slight check).

Meanwhile Junior just sat chilly all of the far turn inside, off a 3 horse battle and tipped out into the lane with no traffic. GREAT RIDE BY Junior.

This guy JV is worse than a 10 pound apprentice :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks JV, that pick 4 JUST EXPLODED THANKS TO YOU !!!!!!!

P.S. Good run by Coach Inge as expected. Dueled a bomb but nonetheless won the pace battle in very good splits. Hung around real well.

[ArlJim78]

Its clear that your many years in the OTB have taken their toll on you.

[EMD4ME]

Its clear that your many years in the OTB have taken their toll on you.

First, very little time spent in OTB. Always hated OTB. Second, what kind of dig is that? Did you NOT see what happened?

If you missed it, I feel sorry for your bankroll as you must be missing a lot of subtle items.

[Ocala Mike]

Nothing about Rosario's ride in the prior race? Admittedly, it was a bit on the "rocking-chair" side, with good position basically handed to him, but he certainly didn't screw it up. Glad he took this one after that terrible take-down Thursday, and it put me in position for a nice $229 double with Junior's horse in the next.

Yeah, he outrode Johnny V. big-time in that race. Coach Inge next time.

[Exotic1]

SUBTLY AWESOMELY RIDE BY JUNIOR and SUBTLY BRUTALLY BAD RIDE BY THE OVERRATED HALL OF SHAMER JV.

Don't know what Clement is thinking, gives this over rated Hall of Shamer a leg up again in the Suburban after his subtly terrible ride in the Met.

He gets a perfect first 1/2 mile in the Suburban and the most over rated, terrible jockey in my era, JV, somehow takes Tonalist and finds a way to waste energy and a gives him a subtly poor trip. JV was last and wide after 3/8ths. Has a choice, control when he wants to go and go wide (and so far the inside was not the best part of track) OR go in between. If you're on the best, don't get cute. Hall of Shamer decides to go in between and that's where it got fun and I loved it!!! Junior pushes up a hair while on rail, enticing HOSer to go as well. JV gets into a slight check into the far turn and more importantly wasted horse and took starch out of Tonalist (with his slight check).

Meanwhile Junior just sat chilly all of the far turn inside, off a 3 horse battle and tipped out into the lane with no traffic. GREAT RIDE BY Junior.

This guy JV is worse than a 10 pound apprentice :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks JV, that pick 4 JUST EXPLODED THANKS TO YOU !!!!!!!

P.S. Good run by Coach Inge as expected. Dueled a bomb but nonetheless won the pace battle in very good splits. Hung around real well.

I. Ortiz first time on Coach Inge. You think he should have dueled with the #1? No excuse. #1 and #2 were pace horses and Ortiz should have realized if #1 breaks on top (and you know Rosario is not laying down for Ortiz) then sit second. Argument could be made that the exacta could have been 2/5 had CI rated even just a bit - creating a larger gap between 1st group and the rest. Msg to I Ortiz, chasing longshots in 22 and 4, not the best strategy going 1 1/4m, if there is a scheduled gap between 1st and 2nd group. It's not like CI is a need to lead, Ortiz was vigorously riding the horse to engage the #1. Yes, very poor ride by JV. My opinion, if Ortiz doesn't chase, CI wins. But it's meaningless now; setups don't repeat.

[Tall One]

Nothing about Rosario's ride in the prior race? Admittedly, it was a bit on the "rocking-chair" side, with good position basically handed to him, but he certainly didn't screw it up. Glad he took this one after that terrible take-down Thursday, and it put me in position for a nice $229 double with Junior's horse in the next.

Yeah, he outrode Johnny V. big-time in that race. Coach Inge next time.



I posted in my Belmont thread that I hoped you played this one back, OM. Good job.. :ThmbUp:

I had him in my exacta that ran 1-3... :rolleyes:

[EMD4ME]

I. Ortiz first time on Coach Inge. You think he should have dueled with the #1? No excuse. #1 and #2 were pace horses and Ortiz should have realized if #1 breaks on top (and you know Rosario is not laying down for Ortiz) then sit second. Argument could be made that the exacta could have been 2/5 had CI rated even just a bit - creating a larger gap between 1st group and the rest. Msg to I Ortiz, chasing longshots in 22 and 4, not the best strategy going 1 1/4m, if there is a scheduled gap between 1st and 2nd group. It's not like CI is a need to lead, Ortiz was vigorously riding the horse to engage the #1. Yes, very poor ride by JV. My opinion, if Ortiz doesn't chase, CI wins. But it's meaningless now; setups don't repeat.

Ortiz, just like many other pin head mental midget parasites that are born to torture us IS terrible at "IF-THEN thinking". If the 1 breaks fast, don't duel him. If the 1 misses the break, let's go in the 1 1/2 path to intimidate and bury him inside. If no one goes, I do this etc.

I many times wonder if you have less brain cells when your 20% shorter than most other humans :lol: :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

Nothing about Rosario's ride in the prior race? Admittedly, it was a bit on the "rocking-chair" side, with good position basically handed to him, but he certainly didn't screw it up. Glad he took this one after that terrible take-down Thursday, and it put me in position for a nice $229 double with Junior's horse in the next.

Yeah, he outrode Johnny V. big-time in that race. Coach Inge next time.

That ride was awesome, AGREED! Joel deserved that after being screwed with the now famous unjust DQ the other day.

[Exotic1]

Ortiz, just like many other pin head mental midget parasites that are born to torture us IS terrible at "IF-THEN thinking". If the 1 breaks fast, don't duel him. If the 1 misses the break, let's go in the 1 1/2 path to intimidate and bury him inside. If no one goes, I do this etc....

If it comes in 2/5, I skip my Anger Management classes till after the New Year.

[EMD4ME]

If it comes in 2/5, I skip my Anger Management classes till after the New Year.

I feel your pain....

Bet you love it when some 2 brain cell shmuck tells you Irad is the man :bang:

[Stillriledup]

I feel your pain....

Bet you love it when some 2 brain cell shmuck tells you Irad is the man :bang:

Jockeys are jockeys because they weigh 115 lbs, not because they're smart. If you get a 115 lb guy who's also somewhat smart, he or she will be able to outthink most of these Clowns on a regular basis. Most of the time, If you get a brilliant ride,it's by accident.

[EMD4ME]

Jockeys are jockeys because they weigh 115 lbs, not because they're smart. If you get a 115 lb guy who's also somewhat smart, he or she will be able to outthink most of these Clowns on a regular basis. Most of the time, If you get a brilliant ride,it's by accident.

You're comment is sheer genius. :ThmbUp:

It is truly by accident. How do we know that? Because they go out and make the most bone head mistakes 30 minutes after a "genius" ride.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ortiz, just like many other pin head mental midget parasites that are born to torture us IS terrible at "IF-THEN thinking".This type of rhetoric simply has to end. Please tone it down...totally serious here.