Horse Cloning

[chickenhead]

What are they doing, or plan on doing, to keep people from cloning horses? Do they keep a DNA library on record now? It seems like it would be an incredibly tempting thing for someone to do, I could picture the Saudis or Japanese (or me) having a go at it....a stable full of Azeri's and Congaree's!

[BETKING]

Chickenhead,

This is mind blowing!! I sure someone has thought of doing this already. Is there any law against this practice? If not, it is going to be done.

[chickenhead]

I read an article about it a few years ago, I'm sure it is by now against the rules, but unless they put some stiff roadblocks up to actually stop it, like DNA catalogue, I don't see how they could keep someone from doing it and getting away with it....

[kenwoodallpromos]

A donkey has been cloned. Or 2.

[formula_2002]

I would find a field of say "MAN O' WARS" quite an interesting race to watch.

Cloning could open the condition books to races such as "Non winners of two - Holly Bull's"

[sam i am]

Tuesday, July 02, 2002 Contact: John Cooney (859)224-2714
Jockey Club Stewards Approve Changes to Clarify Registration Eligibility

The Stewards of The Jockey Club have approved changes to Section V, Rule 1D of The Principal Rules and Requirements of The American Stud Book to clarify the eligibility for registration of foals resulting from certain breeding practices.

The longstanding rule permits registration and listing in The American Stud Book of only those foals that have been bred by natural means.

The Jockey Club’s registrar, Edward A. “Buddy” Bishop, explained that The Jockey Club wanted the rules to be as clear as possible. “The revision makes clear that natural breeding practices do not include cloning,” Bishop said.

Section V, Rule 1D, which goes into effect immediately, now states:

“To be eligible for registration, a foal must be the result of a stallion’s natural service with a broodmare (which is the physical mounting of a broodmare by a stallion), and a natural gestation must take place in, and delivery must be from, the body of the same broodmare in which the foal was conceived. For example, and without limiting the above, any foal resulting from or produced by the processes of Artificial Insemination, Embryo Transfer, Cloning (as defined in the Glossary of Terms) or any other form of genetic manipulation not herein specified, shall not be eligible for registration. As an aid to the natural service, a portion of the ejaculate produced by the stallion during such cover may immediately be placed in the uterus of the broodmare bred.”

The Principal Rules and Requirements of The American Stud Book defines cloning as: “Any method by which the genetic material of an unfertilized egg or an embryo is (i) removed, (ii) replaced by genetic material taken from another organism, (iii) added to with genetic material from another organism, or (iv) otherwise modified by any means in order to produce a live foal.”

The Jockey Club’s rules governing registration mirror those followed by the more than 50 recognized Thoroughbred stud books worldwide under the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities’ “International Agreement on Breeding and Racing,” to which The Jockey Club is a signatory.

The Principal Rules and Requirements of The American Stud Book is available on the Internet through The Jockey Club web site at http://home.jockeyclub.com/rules/index.html.

[kenwoodallpromos]

What kind of thoroughbred mares does "broodmares" include?

[Tom]

Imagine a filed full of Forego's....

"They're OFF!.............
And nobody goes to the lead.
Nobody has left the gate.
What the H***????

[chickenhead]

how do they keep track of them now? Is it just a tattoo or do they implant something?

Say you cloned a superhorse, isn't all you'd have to do is wait till it's a yearling, go buy yourself a well bred yearling that looks roughly the same, copy the tattoo, and presto bango?

Why stop with cloning though, with genetic engineering you could mix and match to bring all the great qualities of a bunch of great horses into one horse, kind of like in that movie Twins. Your horse could be governor someday.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I thought the plot of "Twins" was Arnold had no brains and was way to nice?

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by chickenhead
how do they keep track of them now? Is it just a tattoo or do they implant something?

Say you cloned a superhorse, isn't all you'd have to do is wait till it's a yearling, go buy yourself a well bred yearling that looks roughly the same, copy the tattoo, and presto bango?

Why stop with cloning though, with genetic engineering you could mix and match to bring all the great qualities of a bunch of great horses into one horse, kind of like in that movie Twins. Your horse could be governor someday.

for the lab and essentials, the money you would spend is a ton.........you could buy yourself a top of the line 2 year old in training for what it would take for the first attempt.......and it usually takes 5-7 attempts before one survives etc........

[BillW]

Another thing to add is that we have been genetic engineering thoroughbreds for years via controlled breeding. They used to be able to "survive" 35 starts a year and 1 1/8 miles wasn't a challenge for most of them. Now we have horses that are considered overworked if they have 10 starts a year, the KD is considered a almost marathon and the breakdown rate is rising. I wouldn't count on the human being becoming enlightened enough to reverse their success in this arena anytime soon. Evolution seems to have gotten it right.

Bill

[Tom]

Originally posted by BillW
Another thing to add is that we have been genetic engineering thoroughbreds for years via controlled breeding. They used to be able to "survive" 35 starts a year and 1 1/8 miles wasn't a challenge for most of them. Now we have horses that are considered overworked if they have 10 starts a year, the KD is considered a almost marathon and the breakdown rate is rising. I wouldn't count on the human being becoming enlightened enough to reverse their success in this arena anytime soon. Evolution seems to have gotten it right.

Bill Look at a racing paper from the 60's or 70's....those horses were a lot sturdier than they are now. Rememeber the old starter handicap series they used to run at NYRA?
Today's horses are a lot less animal than they used to be. If you want to call that genetic engineering, than go ahead, but it sounds like horse -clowning to me.

[chickenhead]

that is interesting, the horses today in some cases are only two generations removed from those horses you're talking about, seems like in the grand scheme that is a short short time for any kind of genetic weakness to have been developed...took the royal family a lot longer than that to get screwed up.

Unless for some reason one of the key stallions passed on this kind of hidden weakness that has been dispersed into the gene pool?

Do you think there is something about the training or tracks or owners that have changed, or do you really think it's the horse?

I'm thinking about other major sports, like basketball for instance, while they are better pure athletes, they seem to break down more, can't shoot as well, don't have the heart, etc.

[BillW]

We are all a product of a combination of our genetics and environment. I assume the horse is the same way.

While I would assume that our improved understanding of diet and conditioning would have nothing but a positive affect on the species, (humans just celebrated the 50 yr. anniversary of the 4 minute mile --- we,ve improved on that a significant bit by the same mechanism)

Possibly use of medicinal aids/enhancements has contributed? Possibly we actually have been successful in our interference in breeding, but our choice of breeding for speed had this consequence.

It would be interesting if one of the experts would chime in .... Dr. Purple???


Bill