Beyer on IMPERIALISM

[karlskorner]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/55309.html

[kenwoodallpromos]

Beyer obviously never hear of Victory Gallop; I'm not a bit surprised a speed guy like Beyer thinks a closer will do better rushing into 1 1/8 vs. speed horses than 1 1/2 on a possibly wet Belmont track.

[Valuist]

Speed hasn't done too badly in the Belmont. I can think of quite a few horses who were laying second or on the lead and won the Belmont: Empire Maker, Commendable, Tabasco Cat (I think), Risen Star, Bet Twice, Swale, Conquistador Cielo and the Triple Crown winners from the 70s.

[cj]

Ken,

You name the one closer that has won in the last couple decades. Most are pressers who lay close and take over approaching the stretch. Remember one thing, a true closer at 10f is not necessarily a closer at 12f no more than a closer at 6f is a closer at a flat mile. What happens to most 6f closers stretching out to a mile...they have no late punch. Same thing at other distances as well!

[alysheba88]

The biggest myth around is that closers LOVE the Belmont Stakes 1 1/2. Speed is far more important

[kenwoodallpromos]

I saw winners after VG; Sarava, Point Given, Lemon Drop Kid. Maybe I just though they came from farther back then some did.

[alysheba88]

I was at all those ones. Sarava came from the furthest back of those and even with then I remember him surging to the lead on the turn. PG was real close to the pace the whole time and just drew off like a monster

Lemon Drop Kid pressed the pace too. Great battle with him and Vision and Verse.

[alysheba88]

The other big myth is how speed horses thrive during the Preakness. You would think they are cutting back to six furlongs listening to some.

[Valuist]

Alysheba-

I've noticed that about the Preakness also. Aloma's Ruler wired the field and Beyer's book talked about the (often) rail bias at Pim so the media every year keeps saying the race is all about speed.
There's a few years I can't remember, but since Aloma's Ruler in 82 I can't think of anyone wiring the race. War Emblem was up close but I know he didn't clear. FC was up close last year but wasn't he behind Peace Rules early on?

[justin]

Louis Quatorze wired the field. War Emblem battled for the lead most of the race before shaking free. Still, 2 winners in the last 12 races is nothing to get excited about!

-Justin

[Valuist]

12 years or 22? I'm trying to remember back in the post-Alomas Ruler days. I can't remember who won in 1983; 84 was Gate Dancer and he came from pretty far back. Same w/Tanks Prospect in 1985. I remember Ferdinand winning the Derby in 86 but I can't remember who won the Preakness. Alysheba was a closer and he won in 87, Risen Star stalked the pace in 88. Sunday Silence won in 89; I'd need a chart to see how far back he was but he usually was a stalker, not a speedball. Summer Squall was a stalking type as was Hansel. I'm sure there's been some heavily bet speed horses that burned money.

[kenwoodallpromos]

****When defining speed, stalking, up close, pressor, closer, how many lengths or how early/late in the race is everyong talking about?
i assume that 6f into a route, within 4 is pressor; within 8 is stalker; over 8 is closer.

[alysheba88]

Ken, it all depends on the fractions. A closer may look like a presser when its really just a slow pace keeping him close

[Valuist]

I would consider a presser w/in 2 lengths of the lead a stalker within 4-5 and a closer anything over 5 lengths out. Of course these are generalizations not taking pace into account. In a normal paced race, I'd use that criteria.

[cj]

Off the top of my head, I think it was Snow Chief that beat Ferdinand. I would imagine he was in front or real close if not.

[Valuist]

Yeah it was him and I believe he was right there from the start.