Santa Anita is a joke again!

[depalma113]

The horse wires the field with those fractions. Typical Santa Anita garbage. Screw the Breeders Cup!

[BlueChip@DRF]

Is it back to that weird condition from January 2001 where :20 and :41 doesn't die in the stretch?

[camourous]

Racing would rather have good weather so they can gouge the customers that show up than put on a fair racing event.

[Stillriledup]

Hard to bet with both fists and confidence when you see that.

[Shemp Howard]

Yet I've heard a self-proclaimed "top East Coast conditioner" claim the Breeder's Cup should be permanently staged at this dump.

Go figger.

[goatchaser]

Damn Santa Anita!! They should have not rolled the track. Should have left it open so we could have a Heavy / MuddyTrack today. They probably even Ordered the rain for Last night and this morning. DAMN YOU SANTA ANITA!!

[Stillriledup]

Damn Santa Anita!! They should have not rolled the track. Should have left it open so we could have a Heavy / MuddyTrack today. They probably even Ordered the rain for Last night and this morning. DAMN YOU SANTA ANITA!!

The track is supposed to be like umpires/refs in sports, they should blend into the backround and you should just notice the athletes.

Unfortunately, this is "track racing" and not horse racing.

The conventional handicapping process can be thrown out the window with the rest of the trash.

[pandy]

Agree. This is a joke.

I would imagine that Bayern and Moreno may get into a speed duel. If you are on either one of those horses you have to try to get the lead.

This is one of the many problems with speed biased tracks on big days like this. I know that last year some people on here said stuff like, "who cares if the track favors speed, just bet the speed..."

Yeah, that works in claiming races on regular days but on a day like this, the bias could create some bizarre and unanticipated speed duels, and horses that sit just behind the speed will win, but good luck figuring out which stalker gets lucky.

I picked Stonetastic today, thinking that he can wire the field, but the bias may actually hurt him, because in a sprint I would think that he'll still get the lead but he'll probably have much more pressure than he would have normally, so a stalker may trip out.

[Stillriledup]

Another speed horse, went right around there, nobody tried to beat her, they ran this like a harness qualifier, single file.

The way to "make money" on BC day is to pass the BC and bet other tracks, take advantage of the increased pools on everyday, overnight type races. Those tracks dont have "Special rules" where the 72 hour security barns just add a handicapping element that is a complete guess, i dont mind betting on honest races, but if the other 364 the races are "business as usual" what good does it do me to have clean races 1 day of the year?

Also, this is the Breeders/Horsemen/Owners cup, its the day where the participants get to become much richer while the bettors get no "break" in takeout rates and pay 20s and 40s just to get into the doors.

[dilanesp]

Yet I've heard a self-proclaimed "top East Coast conditioner" claim the Breeder's Cup should be permanently staged at this dump.

Go figger.

Speed is the universal track bias.

And Santa Anita is no dump. Considering it is 78 years old, it is an amazingly fan friendly facility.

And if you want more consistent surfaces, we can always try synthetics again. Want that?

Finally, it's not as though you will get more consistent tracks by racing at places with bad weather.

[pandy]

You're right, this is exactly why harness racing's handle on half and five eighth tracks has evaporated.

[Stillriledup]

Speed is the universal track bias.

And Santa Anita is no dump. Considering it is 78 years old, it is an amazingly fan friendly facility.

And if you want more consistent surfaces, we can always try synthetics again. Want that?

Finally, it's not as though you will get more consistent tracks by racing at places with bad weather.

If horses go "too fast" they're supposed to get tired and the closers are supposed to swoop up. But that doesn't happen at this place, doesn't matter how fast you go, the closers won't come and get you. At other places they do, here they don't.

[goatchaser]

I'm never going to understand People who play the races. When I stink it up I stink up. I never blame the Track. You see how it's playing. So adjust to it. I'm hard Headed like a lot of horse Players. Yes The Breeders Cup should be about the Horses. But I think it's also about Making Money. You have two nice Prices so far. Hope someone made some money. I didn't.

You do know if it was a fair track and all Fav's won. We would be hearing how Chalky the day was.

[MadWorld]

If horses go "too fast" they're supposed to get tired and the closers are supposed to swoop up. But that doesn't happen at this place, doesn't matter how fast you go, the closers won't come and get you. At other places they do, here they don't.

Take that information and bet accordingly

[Stillriledup]

Take that information and bet accordingly

Here's the problem. The information that i've already spent time accumulating is useless. I want to be able to use THAT information. I spend plenty of time on replays making trip notes and other stuff and i don't do that so i can throw it out the window and bet on the horse i THINK is going to get the lead in the first 3 strides of the race.

[Tom]

Take that information and bet accordingly

I did.
I bet at Woodbine. :D

[pandy]

Jerry Bailey just said that no horse has ever gone wire to wire in the sprint.

[pandy]

Here's the problem. The information that i've already spent time accumulating is useless. I want to be able to use THAT information. I spend plenty of time on replays making trip notes and other stuff and i don't do that so i can throw it out the window and bet on the horse i THINK is going to get the lead in the first 3 strides of the race.


I agree 100%. What's the use of handicapping when it all goes out the window and becomes a guessing game of who's going to be the last horse to get the lead?

[cj]

Jerry Bailey just said that no horse has ever gone wire to wire in the sprint.

FM Sprint, right?

[dilanesp]

FM Sprint, right?

Still true. And so much for the bias.

[pandy]

FM Sprint, right?


Yes, that's right, and it held up again, even with a slow first quarter. Judy The Beauty was one of the highest late energy horses in the race, so hopefully the track is drying out and becoming fairer.

[cj]

Yes, that's right, and it held up again, even with a slow first quarter. Judy The Beauty was one of the highest late energy horses in the race, so hopefully the track is drying out and becoming fairer.

It is certainly slower than earlier on the card, probably some correlation.

[FrankieFigs]

Good thing that speed bias is there or Judy the Beauty doesn't hold on to beat the closing-from-the-back-of-the-pack Better Lucky, right? :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Good thing that speed bias is there or Judy the Beauty doesn't hold on to beat the closing-from-the-back-of-the-pack Better Lucky, right? :rolleyes:

What are you a wise guy? :D

[Tom]

Good thing that speed bias is there or Judy the Beauty doesn't hold on to beat the closing-from-the-back-of-the-pack Better Lucky, right? :rolleyes:

That's 2 good ones for you today..... :lol:

[FrankieFigs]

Gotta have a little fun playing this game. Only way to keep my sanity... :cool:

[winningponies]

I did.
I bet at Woodbine. :D

Good call Tom. We hit that early Double for $549. Great play...

[PaceAdvantage]

The horse wires the field with those fractions. Typical Santa Anita garbage. Screw the Breeders Cup!I loved every single minute of that race...

[dilanesp]

I loved every single minute of that race...

All one and two thirds of them?

[PaceAdvantage]

Damn straight...and all 60/1 payout... :lol:

[pandy]

The turf course seems a little inside biased, too, but let's face it, it's green spray paint at Santa Anita, not real grass. But I like Silentio, hopefully he gets a clear run.

[JimG]

Yeah, after watching Texas Red's race, the track is really inside early speed favoring. Damn Santa Anita! LOL

[andtheyreoff]

I think you guys jumped the gun a little bit.

[goatchaser]

So Happy Santa Anita is a Strech Runners Paradise. I Finally made a NICE SCORE!!

[cj]

I always recommend playing a track like it is fair and use bias notes later...just really tough thing to be sure of without a full day of information.

Now, taking a flyer on a horse like the winner of the Juvenile Fillies at 60-1, why not (nice job PA), but I just can't bet horses based only on the track. It almost always turns as soon as everyone thinks they know a track is biased.

[pandy]

I think you guys jumped the gun a little bit.


C J can shine a light on this. There's no doubt that the track was lightning fast and speed favoring for the first four races, but when it dried out, it changed, thankfully.

Congrats to the Desormeaux brothers, what a great story. Keith was his usual hard ass self, but Kent handled it well. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that Keith is jealous of Kent, but, I congratulate both of them on this great win. Keith has proven himself as a trainer. Kent is one of the greatest riders of all time.

[goatchaser]

Unread Today, 10:21 AM #53
goatchaser
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
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21.3 43.4 1:08.2 Cement track right now. BUT..It's expected that the track was pounded down so the rain didn't soak in. In rained until about 2 hours ago. Surprised it wasn't wet at all. I think they will dig a little deeper after each race.
goatchaser is online now

Just needed Patience is all I was saying.

[cj]

C J can shine a light on this. There's no doubt that the track was lightning fast and speed favoring for the first four races, but when it dried out, it changed, thankfully.

Congrats to the Desormeaux brothers, what a great story. Keith was his usual hard ass self, but Kent handled it well. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that Keith is jealous of Kent, but, I congratulate both of them on this great win. Keith has proven himself as a trainer. Kent is one of the greatest riders of all time.

I agreed, and even said before racing started the track would probably change throughout the card on Twitter. It will be a fairly tough day for making figures.

[dilanesp]

C J can shine a light on this. There's no doubt that the track was lightning fast and speed favoring for the first four races, but when it dried out, it changed, thankfully.

Congrats to the Desormeaux brothers, what a great story. Keith was his usual hard ass self, but Kent handled it well. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that Keith is jealous of Kent, but, I congratulate both of them on this great win. Keith has proven himself as a trainer. Kent is one of the greatest riders of all time.

You need to wait for horses to come back on normal tracks before you conclude there is no doubt of a bias.

[MadWorld]

Here's the problem. The information that i've already spent time accumulating is useless. I want to be able to use THAT information. I spend plenty of time on replays making trip notes and other stuff and i don't do that so i can throw it out the window and bet on the horse i THINK is going to get the lead in the first 3 strides of the race.

Correct, but that is the case for everyone. If you recognize a speed bias, it should help you a lot.

I'm sure a speed bias at Santa Anita on a big day wasn't a shock to you though.

[magwell]

The horse wires the field with those fractions. Typical Santa Anita garbage. Screw the Breeders Cup!Now they should ban Santa Anita ........:rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Correct, but that is the case for everyone. If you recognize a speed bias, it should help you a lot.

I'm sure a speed bias at Santa Anita on a big day wasn't a shock to you though.

But a speed bias essentially eliminates a certain segment of the race, it makes it a shorter field....isn't it better if ALL the runners actually had a shot if the race went their way?

I just want more options.

[pandy]

Fortunately the track settled as it dried, but, yes, a speed bias will kill the sport. It killed harness racing, especially on the half and five eighth tracks. If it wasn't for the two turn tracks like Balmoral, Hoosier, Meadowlands, Woodbine, harness racing would be finished.

[Stillriledup]

Fortunately the track settled as it dried, but, yes, a speed bias will kill the sport. It killed harness racing, especially on the half and five eighth tracks. If it wasn't for the two turn tracks like Balmoral, Hoosier, Meadowlands, Woodbine, harness racing would be finished.

You GOTTA be able to win from "the clouds" on occasion. Tracks like Santa Anita heavily water their main track, and the kickback is ferocious, horses return to be unsaddled caked in mud. Track has to be fair.

[Clocker]

But a speed bias essentially eliminates a certain segment of the race, it makes it a shorter field....isn't it better if ALL the runners actually had a shot if the race went their way?



Not if the public thinks that all the runners actually have a shot.

[Tom]

You GOTTA be able to win from "the clouds" on occasion. Tracks like Santa Anita heavily water their main track, and the kickback is ferocious, horses return to be unsaddled caked in mud. Track has to be fair.
Like Texas Red?

[depalma113]

I like Bayern, but he needs to come down.

[Stillriledup]

I like Bayern, but he needs to come down.
no doubt. Easy call.

[DJofSD]

I guess 1:59 was too fast. Take 'em down.

[RXB]

I'm not so sure. They're lenient with regard to the first three jumps and that's where the interference occurred.

Nobody gained much ground in that race. Dirt is just so front-biased.

[depalma113]

More Santa Anita garbage.

[RXB]

I'm not so sure. They're lenient with regard to the first three jumps and that's where the interference occurred.

Nobody gained much ground in that race. Dirt is just so front-biased.

Just as I was hit the post button, they announced they're leaving it. I'm not surprised.

[Stillriledup]

Baffert crashes/bothers Shared Belief again and stays up.

Story at 11.

[Tom]

That was far more than a bump out of the gate.
Another Baffert mug job.

[Stillriledup]

If the first jump is off limits, why don't more jocks just wipe out the field in big races? Seems like a no brainer, esp if you're a speed horse, you can just cut the field off and nobody says a word.

[Relwob Owner]

If the first jump is off limits, why don't more jocks just wipe out the field in big races? Seems like a no brainer, esp if you're a speed horse, you can just cut the field off and nobody says a word.

Exactly......

[depalma113]

A Merry-Go-Round in the Classic!

Yeah, the track was fair. :lol:

[Mr_Ed]

Wow. Did the stewards que up the correct start.

Was an easy call.

[pandy]

He should have been dq'd but you know they let horses get away with murder in these big races. When I saw how badly he came in I was rooting hard for California Chrome to pass him in the stretch. Tainted win for Bayern.

[Mr_Ed]

Listen to these goofs interviewed in the winners circle (Battering Ram Baffert and his jock(strap).

Got away with murder.

[Stillriledup]

Here's what i don't get.

If there's 0 pct chance anything that happens at the start is dq-able, why even put the inquiry up in the first place? Why even bother looking at it?

Once you put up the inquiry, you're essentially saying its a DQ-able offense and if its a DQ-able offense, how does it NOT come down?

Know what im saying?

[ArlJim78]

Moreno got double teamed, first by Bayern then Toast of New York clocked him for good measure. I've seen less bumping at a demoltion derby.

[pandy]

It was an obvious DQ, no doubt about it. What a horrible classic and the start ruined the race. Bayern should have been taken down not only for his infraction but for completely screwing up the biggest race of the year. He eliminated two of his main rivals including his only pace rival. What a joke.

[Stillriledup]

It was an obvious DQ, no doubt about it. What a horrible classic and the start ruined the race. Bayern should have been taken down not only for his infraction but for completely screwing up the biggest race of the year. He eliminated two of his main rivals including his only pace rival. What a joke.

AND, the horse he crashed into he has a history of interfering with.....interfering with ON PURPOSE.

[ArlJim78]

Remember it was a Baffert horse that tried to take out Shared Belief in his prior race.

[JustRalph]

Nobody made up any ground at all. Did this track flip again?

[Tom]

I think I have seen enough horse racing for this lifetime.
I had the place horse 6 units to place and 12 units to show.
And I still don't want to ever watch another race.
Especially on a dirt track.

[Track Phantom]

Most insulting thing I've ever seen in racing.

Didn't have an impact on the outcome? Hmmm....

Ask yourself this, what odds would Bayern gone off at if I would have told you he had a fairly easy, uncontested lead and the other two speeds, Cigar Street and, more notably, Moreno, were cut off and basically eliminated?

2-1

[Beachbabe]

Here's what i don't get.

If there's 0 pct chance anything that happens at the start is dq-able, why even put the inquiry up in the first place? Why even bother looking at it?

Once you put up the inquiry, you're essentially saying its a DQ-able offense and if its a DQ-able offense, how does it NOT come down?

Know what im saying?

That's what I dont get.
Bayern bothered a few horses but they say it didn't affect Shared Belief's placing. Bull&&it.
Why put up the inquiry if they knew it was something that happened right out of the gate and that they would say it didn't affect a placing. :ThmbDown:

[dilanesp]

Most insulting thing I've ever seen in racing.

Didn't have an impact on the outcome? Hmmm....

Ask yourself this, what odds would Bayern gone off at if I would have told you he had a fairly easy, uncontested lead and the other two speeds, Cigar Street and, more notably, Moreno, were cut off and basically eliminated?

2-1

Too speculative. The stewards can't assume tactics

Had SB finished closer, he would have come down.

[dilanesp]

That's what I dont get.
Bayern bothered a few horses but they say it didn't affect Shared Belief's placing. Bull&&it.
Why put up the inquiry if they knew it was something that happened right out of the gate and that they would say it didn't affect a placing. :ThmbDown:

Because the whole world is watching.

[classhandicapper]

I understand the inclination to not DQ horses in major races & also understand the extra leeway given at the start of races. However, Bayern took out the 2-1 favorite and the only other quality speed in the race in one huge bump. I have long argued that DQs should be rare & obvious. But if you don't DQ Bayern there, then no horse should ever be DQ'd for an infraction at the start of a race ever again. That call practically encourages riders to take out their major foes at the start.

For the record, I didn't have a bet on the race. So this is not sour grapes. IMO it's just another inconsistent call. If the calls were consistent, you'd at least know what you were up against. We obviously need some national standards for DQs so people don't have to come away from races feeling like they got screwed.

All that said, Bayern is a terrific horse. He's probably better than I gave him credit for. But IMO he's not the best 3yo in the country. He's had extraordinary good fortune with biases and trips in all his major wins except the Woody Stephens. I really hope the voters realize that CA Chrome and Shared Belief are superior racehorses when it comes time to give out year end awards, but I doubt it.

[Bigadam119]

Was there really a speed bias in the BC races today?

Also Parx should be happy with the Classic/distaff combo.

[Redboard]

I understand..... that CA Chrome and Shared Belief are superior racehorses when it comes time to give out year end awards, but I doubt it.

Interesting thought, but I don't believe the Eclipse voters would disqualify the horse when the SA stewards didn't.

[Stillriledup]

I understand the inclination to not DQ horses in major races & also understand the extra leeway given at the start of races. However, Bayern took out the 2-1 favorite and the only other quality speed in the race in one huge bump. I have long argued that DQs should be rare & obvious. But if you don't DQ Bayern there, then no horse should ever be DQ'd for an infraction at the start of a race ever again. That call practically encourages riders to take out their major foes at the start.

For the record, I didn't have a bet on the race. So this is not sour grapes. IMO it's just another inconsistent call. If the calls were consistent, you'd at least know what you were up against. We obviously need some national standards for DQs so people don't have to come away from races feeling like they got screwed.

All that said, Bayern is a terrific horse. He's probably better than I gave him credit for. But IMO he's not the best 3yo in the country. He's had extraordinary good fortune with biases and trips in all his major wins except the Woody Stephens. I really hope the voters realize that CA Chrome and Shared Belief are superior racehorses when it comes time to give out year end awards, but I doubt it.

Good post. To set the record straight, there's no "leeway" because the official response from the judges was that it didn't affect the outcome. This means, if the outcome was affected in their mind, they take the horse down, they don't leave it up under the guise of "let them play" out of the gate.

Also, there's history of this trainers horse bothering Shared Belief on purpose. Now, i don't know about any of you, but to me, that's a factor, even if i wouldn't say it publicly, i would think about it in my mind as i was making the call.

[Tom]

All that said, Bayern is a terrific horse.

He has a good left hook.

Good post. To set the record straight, there's no "leeway" because the official response from the judges was that it didn't affect the outcome.

Then how you ever DQ a horse other than at the wire?

[Redboard]

I think I have seen enough horse racing for this lifetime.
I had the place horse 6 units to place and 12 units to show.
And I still don't want to ever watch another race.
Especially on a dirt track.

Right, you'll be back tomorrow playing Ft. Erie.

[Tom]

No, not a chance.

[Stillriledup]

He has a good left hook.



Then how you ever DQ a horse other than at the wire?

My point was that some people, including Baffert in post race interviews before the inquiry was decided, were saying that there's 'leeway' at the start. But, if we are to believe the judges, Bayern comes down if they thought it affected the outcome. I'm not sure how you can say a horse getting totally clobbered like that, jarred off his feet, didn't affect that horse's chances.

[SmartyLane]

I understand the inclination to not DQ horses in major races & also understand the extra leeway given at the start of races. However, Bayern took out the 2-1 favorite and the only other quality speed in the race in one huge bump. I have long argued that DQs should be rare & obvious. But if you don't DQ Bayern there, then no horse should ever be DQ'd for an infraction at the start of a race ever again. That call practically encourages riders to take out their major foes at the start.

For the record, I didn't have a bet on the race. So this is not sour grapes. IMO it's just another inconsistent call. If the calls were consistent, you'd at least know what you were up against. We obviously need some national standards for DQs so people don't have to come away from races feeling like they got screwed.

All that said, Bayern is a terrific horse. He's probably better than I gave him credit for. But IMO he's not the best 3yo in the country. He's had extraordinary good fortune with biases and trips in all his major wins except the Woody Stephens. I really hope the voters realize that CA Chrome and Shared Belief are superior racehorses when it comes time to give out year end awards, but I doubt it.

Completely agree with you.

I love Chrome and had some question on how good SB really is. After this race he showed me how good he is. Moreno who should of been up with Bayern vying for the front was bumping with SB the entire backstretch hindering SB even more than just the first couple furlongs. Worst part about the race is we can all agree the race was not run giving all horses a shot. As mentioned above, you tell me Bayern has lone lead entire way around, I am unloading the savings account on him. Entire structure of race changed 50 ft from start. Very unfortunate, Chrome ran good race and SB really is real deal to get 4th considering.

Edit: what the heck was Rosario thinking to let Tona be so far out of it. He had no shot at the leaders but still closed lots of ground.

[classhandicapper]

My point was that some people, including Baffert in post race interviews before the inquiry was decided, was saying that there's 'leeway' at the start. But, if we are to believe the judges, Bayern comes down if they thought it affected the outcome. I'm not sure how you can say a horse getting totally clobbered like that, jarred off his feet, didn't affect that horse's chances.

It's preposterous to say it didn't effect his chances. They are full of crap. It also took out Moreno which further changed the race.

The leeway comes from the understanding that there is a lot of incidental and accidental contact at the start of races. If you start DQ'ing horses for every bump at the start, you'd rarely get a race without an inquiry. But this was not incidental and it took out the favorite and the other major speed. Both had a huge impact. If they can't tell that everything about the race changed dramatically at the start for several major contenders, then they should not be in a decision making position.

[Mr_Ed]

3 lengths out of the gate SB is turned to a 10 o'clock position.

[Stillriledup]

It's preposterous to say it didn't effect his chances. They are full of crap. It also took out Moreno which further changed the race.

The leeway comes from the understanding that there is a lot of incidental and accidental contact at the start of races. If you start DQ'ing horses for every bump at the start, you'd rarely get a race without an inquiry. But this was not incidental and it took out the favorite and the other major speed. If they can't tell that everything about the race changed dramatically at the start, then they should not be in a decision making position.

no doubt, totally agree.

[Tom]

If they can't tell that everything about the race changed dramatically at the start, then they should not be in a decision making position.

In their defense, they checked the replays, they checked with the riders, they checked their rickets....

Back when Sirius/XM had a racing channel, they had HRTV on at noon, and one of the California stewards was on every Thursday.

The guy was a total jerk.

[Stillriledup]

Privman unloading on the judges.

https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman

[FrankieFigs]

I'm still cracking up at those that are still proclaiming a "speed bias" because Bayern goes wire-to-wire. The reason why no one was gaining at the end is due to him getting an easy lead and having something left in the tank in the stretch.

[thespaah]

Here's the problem. The information that i've already spent time accumulating is useless. I want to be able to use THAT information. I spend plenty of time on replays making trip notes and other stuff and i don't do that so i can throw it out the window and bet on the horse i THINK is going to get the lead in the first 3 strides of the race.
Well, credit yourself with another astute observation.
This is my gripe. My number one peeve.
That is when the track management "plays" with the surface to favor one type of running style over another.

[iceknight]

This will SURELY get lot more new fans to Horse Racing!!

[DJofSD]

Do we believe the best stewards were in charge today? Are the stewards something the BC Ltd. has any control over?

[thespaah]

The track DID change throughout the day. It appeared to be playing relatively even as the day wore on.
Perhaps the product of the track drying out a bit and this giving horses a chance to forge forward from mid pack.
For example, Tonalist was over at Bel Aire Country Club getting in a quick 9 holes as the field reached the 3/8ths and he ended up a credible 5th.
One can surmise the result had Tonalist been closer up at that point.
Tonalist made up 10 lengths from the 1/4 pole. And 5 lengths from the stretch call

[Tom]

Do we believe the best stewards were in charge today? Are the stewards something the BC Ltd. has any control over?

:lol: You used best and stewards in the same sentence! :lol:
That call was so bad, I am expecting the stewards to be sent to Finger Lakes.

[magwell]

I wouldn't have taken him but then again I wouldn't have given Victor 7 days for herding SB out in the first turn in the Awesome Again.So maybe I should be a steward at SRU Downs where everybody gets paid ?..........;)

[biggestal99]

Another speed horse, went right around there, nobody tried to beat her, they ran this like a harness qualifier, single file.

The way to "make money" on BC day is to pass the BC and bet other tracks, take advantage of the increased pools on everyday, overnight type races. Those tracks dont have "Special rules" where the 72 hour security barns just add a handicapping element that is a complete guess, i dont mind betting on honest races, but if the other 364 the races are "business as usual" what good does it do me to have clean races 1 day of the year?

Also, this is the Breeders/Horsemen/Owners cup, its the day where the participants get to become much richer while the bettors get no "break" in takeout rates and pay 20s and 40s just to get into the doors.

The way to make money in the bc is to ignore the chalk and concentrate on bombers with a chance.

Allan

[goatchaser]

Snow racing at Aquaduct..Speed never hangs on there right? Saratoga track is to deep and Sandy.....Poly just sucks..It's not real dirt. Santa Anita is the worst speed Bias track in the country..With all this BS to put up with..why do you guys still Play the Ponies?...Unbelievable. Why don't you all just write the track you play and ask them to conform the track to the way you Handicap. You seem to want it all just handed to you on a plate.

[PaceAdvantage]

Now, taking a flyer on a horse like the winner of the Juvenile Fillies at 60-1, why not (nice job PA), but I just can't bet horses based only on the track.For the record, the track had nothing to do with my pick in that race, even though I did mention bias in my write up...but that's because I'm lazy in my writing and needed something to write about... :lol:

[Hambletonian]

So Ca has always been a speed favoring joke, maybe changed a little with the synthetics, but not anymore.
l
if they were concerned about fairness the BC would be at Belmont, Churchill, Woodbine, Arlington or Gulfstream every year.

they want sunny weather and celebrity interviews, I guess keep it in So Cal.

[pandy]

It has. Stretch out speed and speed in general is something that has to be given careful consideration in route races at Santa Anita, always has been. Speed does better going two turns there than in sprints because the riders are much more aggressive in one turn races. In sprints, you want stalkers.

Another thing I don't like about Santa Anita is the turf course, which has very little grass on it and is way too fast. The turf courses at Arlington, Belmont, Woodbine, are much better courses, no comparison. Santa Anita turf has always been bad.

[Track Phantom]

I don't understand the debate here. Especially amongst the savvy handicappers that come on this forum.

Bayern eliminated horses, most notably the speed in Moreno and that completely changed the complexion (and almost certiainly, the outcome) of the race. To say anything otherwise is indicating using pace in your handicapping is foolish and doesn't matter.

This is one of the most insulting things I've ever seen. Ever! The insult goes in a lot of directions but, most clearly, protecting the elite at the expense of the "little guy" (not Andy Serling, mind you).

The integrity of horse racing took a major blow yesterday, in my opinion.

[pandy]

I agree, Valento. Worse yet, it's hard to imagine that the judges didn't feel the horse should come down. They just didn't want to take down the winner of a major race. They took the easy and cowardly way out.

[dilanesp]

I don't understand the debate here. Especially amongst the savvy handicappers that come on this forum.

Bayern eliminated horses, most notably the speed in Moreno and that completely changed the complexion (and almost certiainly, the outcome) of the race. To say anything otherwise is indicating using pace in your handicapping is foolish and doesn't matter.

This is one of the most insulting things I've ever seen. Ever! The insult goes in a lot of directions but, most clearly, protecting the elite at the expense of the "little guy" (not Andy Serling, mind you).

The integrity of horse racing took a major blow yesterday, in my opinion.

The integrity of racing did just fine. There are specific rules on disqualifications, and had the stewards taken a number down for "changing the complexion of the race", rather than costing a horse a better finish, their decision would have violated California law.

Disqualification isn't permitted to fix anything that goes wrong in a horse race.

[Track Phantom]

The integrity of racing did just fine. There are specific rules on disqualifications, and had the stewards taken a number down for "changing the complexion of the race", rather than costing a horse a better finish, their decision would have violated California law.

Disqualification isn't permitted to fix anything that goes wrong in a horse race.

Huh? Not a single word you said made a lick of sense to me. Even if what you said was true, it flies in the face of logic.

Horse racing integrity took a major hit yesterday, whether you want to admit it or not. I was in a Vegas sports book and there wasn't a single person I heard directly or indirectly that wasn't disgusted by this.

[SandyW]

The integrity of racing did just fine. There are specific rules on disqualifications, and had the stewards taken a number down for "changing the complexion of the race", rather than costing a horse a better finish, their decision would have violated California law.

Disqualification isn't permitted to fix anything that goes wrong in a horse race.

This is the post that makes the most sense to me, anything can happen in a race that could and most of the time does change the outcome of a race.
It is not the stewards job to change the complexion of a race.
Shared Belief was sitting behind California Chrome on the outside all the way down the back stretch, when CC made his move SB could not stay with him. What we need now is a match race between the two of them to prove something that is very obvious that CC is a far better horse then SB.

[wiffleball whizz]

Would have loved to see CC get second and see the owner start yelling about the no dq!!

[classhandicapper]

Still can't figure out how to insert images right.

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