Dosage index only takes male line into account?

[letswastemoney]

I don't see how those numbers can be taken seriously, if so.

Do you use them, and why?

[letswastemoney]

So I just learned the two numbers on right, solid and professional points, are supposed to indicate stamina.

Fort Larned has 0 solid and 0 professional.

Yet his second dam is considered one of the all time great female route horses.

[Redboard]

I never understood why a horse's DI wouldn't change no matter what his relatives did. What if he had full siblings that all won the triple crown. Why would his DI not change?
But thankfully we don't have to hear anymore about no one ever winning the derby having a DI less than yayadadada

[letswastemoney]

I never understood why a horse's DI wouldn't change no matter what his relatives did. What if he had full siblings that all won the triple crown. Why would his DI not change?
But thankfully we don't have to hear anymore about no one ever winning the derby having a DI less than yayadadadaMine That Bird had a poor dosage index. I wonder if it has changed because of Dullahan? But how can it if dosage doesn't take the dam line into consideration?

The system looks flawed.

[Tom]

Dosage can change. If the sire was early in the stud career is one reason. I believe Strike the Gold was over the Derby threshold at the time, but eventually came down under it. Check the Dosage site - probably an article about it.
I think Beyer wrote about it at the time, how the number was changed.

[letswastemoney]

Dosage can change. If the sire was early in the stud career is one reason. I believe Strike the Gold was over the Derby threshold at the time, but eventually came down under it. Check the Dosage site - probably an article about it.
I think Beyer wrote about it at the time, how the number was changed.It can change, but if the siblings aren't taken into account (and I don't see how it can be if the female line isn't considered), it's flawed.

[Tom]

Then don't use it.
A lot of people have made money using it.

Why do think we don't see many horses that fail to make the cut for the Derby anymore? Same reason you used to get $12.00 on the top fig horses and now you get $3.80.

[letswastemoney]

Of course I'm never going to use it. But, this is a horse forum and I'm going to criticize something that I think is flawed, and bizarre.

Here is a great article I read on Horse Racing Nation right now.

http://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs/pedigree_power/Dosage_and_the_Kentucky_Derby_123

"We only had to wait another four years for Mine That Bird to come along with – you guessed it – a 4.33 Dosage Index. So, True Believers in using Dosage for handicapping would have you accept that the numbers have to be changed again to fit the facts. That isn’t how a “scientific theory” is supposed to work. You can’t keep changing the numbers after the fact. As a predictive tool for the Kentucky Derby, Dosage has become useless."

[Tom]

So you are saying Beyer is worthless because HE changes numbers after the fact?

That is called quality control.

[Appy]

New entries are made on a regular basis, such as when new black type winners emerge. I was notified of increased valuation for my mare when her line produced additional black type victories.
Dosage ratings MUST change with time. That is the only way dosage could remain a credible system.
As a handicapping tool dosage at least provides something to use in difficult situations, such as first time starters, or perhaps as a contender tiebreaker, etc.
IMO it is most often used for breeding prospectus, as hints as to the potential skillset of a youngster, or as part of the resume with a horse offered for sale.

[pandy]

The first four generation sires are used in the calculation.

[Grits]

New entries are made on a regular basis, such as when new black type winners emerge. I was notified of increased valuation for my mare when her line produced additional black type victories.
Dosage ratings MUST change with time. That is the only way dosage could remain a credible system.
As a handicapping tool dosage at least provides something to use in difficult situations, such as first time starters, or perhaps as a contender tiebreaker, etc.
IMO it is most often used for breeding prospectus, as hints as to the potential skillset of a youngster, or as part of the resume with a horse offered for sale.

Appy, your post is only one of the reasons why people spend more time, here, at Pace Advantage than at startups like Horse Racing Nation.