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Dave Schwartz
10-11-2014, 12:37 AM
Topic says it all. I just do not get the flow of currency.

Help would be appreciated.

JustRalph
10-11-2014, 12:53 AM
https://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works

Dave, there are some videos on Youtube that explain it too...........

doing a google search for "how does bitcoin work" brings up lots

Dave Schwartz
10-11-2014, 01:38 AM
I read that link. Thank you.

I have also read several others, including the Wiki. However, about every other sentence I run into a question I need to ask and, of course, there is nobody to answer, so the entire learning process stops.

Example: "Once you have installed a Bitcoin wallet on your computer or mobile phone..."

Where does one get one of those?
Is there a cost?
Are there any security risks in having a wallet on a particular computer?
Are there any risks, legal, financial or otherwise of owning a BC wallet?

To me, these are all logical questions to be answered.


More: "In fact, this is pretty similar to how email works, except that Bitcoin addresses should only be used once."

What does that mean: "To use only once?"


The block chain is a shared public ledger on which the entire Bitcoin network relies.

Who manages this?
How is it secure?
What happens if it breaks?


Any takers on just these questions, thus far?

barn32
10-11-2014, 07:59 AM
In my opinion Bit Coins are a scam. Stay away.

DJofSD
10-11-2014, 08:52 AM
I read that link. Thank you.

I have also read several others, including the Wiki. However, about every other sentence I run into a question I need to ask and, of course, there is nobody to answer, so the entire learning process stops.

Example: "Once you have installed a Bitcoin wallet on your computer or mobile phone..."

Where does one get one of those?
Is there a cost?
Are there any security risks in having a wallet on a particular computer?
Are there any risks, legal, financial or otherwise of owning a BC wallet?

To me, these are all logical questions to be answered.


More: "In fact, this is pretty similar to how email works, except that Bitcoin addresses should only be used once."

What does that mean: "To use only once?"


The block chain is a shared public ledger on which the entire Bitcoin network relies.

Who manages this?
How is it secure?
What happens if it breaks?


Any takers on just these questions, thus far?
Dave, I can guess as to why you are needing to come up to speed with this issue.

I only have followed the topic with minimal interest and only from a very narrow perspective. However, along the way I recall learning there have been some people that lost large sums of bit coin currency because of either drives crashing or drives being discarded by mistake with both set of circumstances resulting in very critical parts of bit coin data being lost. I believe in both instances they were screwed with no way to reclaim access to the value of the exchange -- they were screwed. I guess it would not be any different if you had a pile of Federal Reserve Notes that went up in flames.

GL

Robert Goren
10-11-2014, 10:21 AM
1.Conman dreams up scheme.
2.Conman finds sucker.
3.Conman takes sucker's money.
4.Conman disappears with sucker's money.
5.Sucker is too embarrassed to admit he was taken.

Dave Schwartz
10-11-2014, 11:12 AM
Dave, I can guess as to why you are needing to come up to speed with this issue.

My only goal here is understanding. It has me perplexed.

I have no plans for participating.

The funny thing is that I have asked several people privately who SEEM very knowledgeable on the topic and none of them can answer my questions. Okay, so there is the possibility that they just don't want to answer my questions, but that's not what I sense.

One fellow, who said he has money invested in bit coins, when I pressed him, could not answer the questions I listed above. He did tell me that there is an online document which contains ALL the answers. (I saw it in Ralph's post, I believe.) However, the document looks a lot like the Affordable Care Act.

GameTheory
10-11-2014, 12:05 PM
For those who think it is a scam or a con, please explain how. I would submit you actually don't know anything about it, and are just parroting fears. In the end, all bitcoin is...is a protocol, a set of rules. Like email. Is email a scam? Like http. Is http a scam? See, the question doesn't even make sense.

Now of course there are some problems with bitcoin, and the government(s) may/are getting in the way of its use, etc etc. Although it is popping up in some surprising "legit" places. For instance I can now pay my Dish bill in bitcoin if I want. And a while back I was selling a camera lens to a guy in India for a few hundred dollars -- he wanted to pay in bitcoin, but I wasn't set up for that. But he was able to buy an Amazon gift card with his bitcoin and send that to me as payment, which I was then able to verify. That's more secure to me as a seller than PayPal (which can be reversed after the fact) for international transactions.

So anyway, and I'm not a great expert so I may get some details wrong, but to start, the basic idea is to have a digital currency that acts like a physical currency. So this is digital cash, not digital checking. There is no central authority or middleman keeping track of who has how much and who they gave it to, etc.

And yes, you can lose it or destroy it never to be seen again, just like if you throw your cash into a fire that money is just gone. All of these things are FEATURES, not bugs. Having these features (and a few others) are the very reason bitcoin was created -- to have a worldwide digital currency with no central control, yet that was secure and would not allow counterfeiting, etc.

It is "real" money not in the physical sense, but like gold it is scarce, there is only so much of it, and the only way to find more you must "mine" it. So if we still had dollars backed by gold, then the paper dollars or the entries in your bank account would all correspond to physical gold stored somewhere. But this is digital and takes up no space, so the "gold" and the "paper" don't have to separated with one representing the other -- the actual "gold" is passed around. Unlike gold however, which can never be totally lost forever except for shooting it into space or something, bitcoin does have the paper-like feature that it can be lost forever. I don't think there is any way to recover it at present.

Anyway, as long as there is "a lot" of it, that isn't a problem (for the currency itself, obviously it is for the individual that lost it), just like if you had gold-backed currency but the rate of exchange was allowed to float (yes, you can have such a thing), then as long as there is a decent but not unlimited supply of gold in the world, then that gold can back any amount of currency being passed around out in the world. And the fact that bitcoin's value can and does float (just like any other modern currency, btw) is one reason people have called it a scam -- because what was worth a lot for a brief moment is now worth not so much. So that's "something to be aware of", not a scheme to deceive you. No one else is getting rich off that fact at your expense.

PaceAdvantage
10-11-2014, 12:16 PM
I agree with you GT...nice explanation...

Frost king
10-11-2014, 03:29 PM
So how do you mine it? So there are people mining it, while others buy it?

JJMartin
10-11-2014, 03:58 PM
So how do you mine it? So there are people mining it, while others buy it?

From what I recall, mining involves using your PC to solve a mathematical equation which is done after so many online transactions have been recorded. This "unlocks" or produces 1 bitcoin that is deposited in your wallet. The difficulty of these mathematical problems increase with time requiring more processing power, well beyond the average household PC. In fact graphics card's CPU's are preferred over the PC's CPU because they can be tuned for better output. Most people that get into mining are part of a pool because alone it would require 10's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment to be effective. There is a lot more technical stuff to it which I don't recall now.

Dave Schwartz
10-11-2014, 04:27 PM
Wait a minute... You "mine" for coins by running a software program?

Is there user interaction?

GameTheory
10-11-2014, 04:32 PM
Wait a minute... You "mine" for coins by running a software program?

Is there user interaction?
Yes.

No.

And it is too late to make any money doing it. If you had gotten into it a few years ago you could have made a million (if you converted it to USD before the value went down!)...

JJMartin
10-11-2014, 04:57 PM
Wait a minute... You "mine" for coins by running a software program?

Is there user interaction?

By the way there are at least 10, maybe 20 or 30 other digital currencies besides bitcoin, the next biggest I believe is Litecoin also functioning and generated the same as bitcoin at least in principle.

barn32
10-11-2014, 09:50 PM
For those who think it is a scam or a con, please explain how. I would submit you actually don't know anything about it, and are just parroting fears. In the end, all bitcoin is...is a protocol, a set of rules. Like email. Is email a scam? Like http. Is http a scam? See, the question doesn't even make sense.

Now of course there are some problems with bitcoin, and the government(s) may/are getting in the way of its use, etc etc. Although it is popping up in some surprising "legit" places. For instance I can now pay my Dish bill in bitcoin if I want. And a while back I was selling a camera lens to a guy in India for a few hundred dollars -- he wanted to pay in bitcoin, but I wasn't set up for that. But he was able to buy an Amazon gift card with his bitcoin and send that to me as payment, which I was then able to verify. That's more secure to me as a seller than PayPal (which can be reversed after the fact) for international transactions.

So anyway, and I'm not a great expert so I may get some details wrong, but to start, the basic idea is to have a digital currency that acts like a physical currency. So this is digital cash, not digital checking. There is no central authority or middleman keeping track of who has how much and who they gave it to, etc.

And yes, you can lose it or destroy it never to be seen again, just like if you throw your cash into a fire that money is just gone. All of these things are FEATURES, not bugs. Having these features (and a few others) are the very reason bitcoin was created -- to have a worldwide digital currency with no central control, yet that was secure and would not allow counterfeiting, etc.

It is "real" money not in the physical sense, but like gold it is scarce, there is only so much of it, and the only way to find more you must "mine" it. So if we still had dollars backed by gold, then the paper dollars or the entries in your bank account would all correspond to physical gold stored somewhere. But this is digital and takes up no space, so the "gold" and the "paper" don't have to separated with one representing the other -- the actual "gold" is passed around. Unlike gold however, which can never be totally lost forever except for shooting it into space or something, bitcoin does have the paper-like feature that it can be lost forever. I don't think there is any way to recover it at present.

Anyway, as long as there is "a lot" of it, that isn't a problem (for the currency itself, obviously it is for the individual that lost it), just like if you had gold-backed currency but the rate of exchange was allowed to float (yes, you can have such a thing), then as long as there is a decent but not unlimited supply of gold in the world, then that gold can back any amount of currency being passed around out in the world. And the fact that bitcoin's value can and does float (just like any other modern currency, btw) is one reason people have called it a scam -- because what was worth a lot for a brief moment is now worth not so much. So that's "something to be aware of", not a scheme to deceive you. No one else is getting rich off that fact at your expense.The fact that I don't understand any of this. No wait, the fact that I HAVE to understand any of this makes it nonsense in my book.

GameTheory
10-11-2014, 10:39 PM
The fact that I don't understand any of this. No wait, the fact that I HAVE to understand any of this makes it nonsense in my book.
Ok, well that's plainly ridiculous and you've just proved my assertion. I don't know how nuclear reactors work, but that doesn't make nuclear power a "scam", it just makes it something I don't really understand. You could insert a million other such examples.

Anyway, if you compare bitcoin to how our normal currency currently "works" and you have a good understanding of both (if that's even possible for anyone), I'm not sure bitcoin would be ranked the more "scammy" of the two. (In fact it is pretty hard to see it coming out on top on the scam-o-meter.) And of course no one is requiring you to know anything about bitcoin, or give it the slightest bit of attention...

JustRalph
10-12-2014, 12:26 AM
Nuclear reactors are easier than bitcoin

barn32
10-12-2014, 11:46 AM
Ok, well that's plainly ridiculous and you've just proved my assertion. I don't know how nuclear reactors work, but that doesn't make nuclear power a "scam", it just makes it something I don't really understand. Bad analogy. It's not necessary to understand how nuclear reactors work in order to benefit from them-you just plug your TV into the wall socket and you have power.

Bitcoins are a currency that someone created out of whole cloth. The fact that a lot of intelligent people don't understand how it works or even what it is says a lot.

And yet you have people on forums everywhere giving long winded dissertations defending them like they're the most common, natural and simple thing on earth.

It's not simple. Most people don't understand it, and I just wish the whole damn thing would go away.

Which, by the way, is exactly what I think will eventually happen.

JustRalph
10-12-2014, 12:00 PM
Bad analogy. It's not necessary to understand how nuclear reactors work in order to benefit from them-you just plug your TV into the wall socket and you have power.

Bitcoins are a currency that someone created out of whole cloth. The fact that a lot of intelligent people don't understand how it works or even what it is says a lot.

And yet you have people on forums everywhere giving long winded dissertations defending them like they're the most common, natural and simple thing on earth.

It's not simple. Most people don't understand it, and I just wish the whole damn thing would go away.

Which, by the way, is exactly what I think will eventually happen.

These same people who don't understand it, really don't understand that dollar bill in their pocket either. If the US Government came out and guaranteed the integrity of bit coins tomorrow ( take away the international factor) and issued an actual coin, there would be very little difference, theoretically speaking.

That paper in your pocket has value for one reason only. Most don't understand that.

DJofSD
10-12-2014, 12:08 PM
Money explained: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Money

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 12:34 PM
Bad analogy. It's not necessary to understand how nuclear reactors work in order to benefit from them-you just plug your TV into the wall socket and you have power.

Bitcoins are a currency that someone created out of whole cloth. The fact that a lot of intelligent people don't understand how it works or even what it is says a lot.It says that it is new, that's all. Of course people don't immediately understand it. Any bright person who takes a little while to see what it is about will get the important parts quite readily. It is not necessary to be become an expert in cryptography and understand all the technical details to get how it might work in the world, just as you don't need to be a nuclear physicist to plug in your lamp. (Most people didn't "understand" the internet in 1994, and still don't, yet here it is and most people use it every day constantly.)

Whether it will all just go away I don't know, no one does. Will it become something important or is it just the Esperanto of money? Beats me, and I'm not suggesting it is or will be a big deal and that you should care anything about it. But there is no need for hysteria...if you're not interested, don't pay attention. I don't follow football scores, but that doesn't make football a "scam". To me all the hysterical and nonsensical attention bitcoin has gotten recently tells me that it actually might turn out to be something -- people are starting to take it seriously enough to be afraid of the change it might bring. (That always brings out hysteria and wild fear-mongering.)

We'll see, it is interesting anyway...

DJofSD
10-12-2014, 12:42 PM
Yes, when quantum computers are available, the basis for the integrity of bit coin fiat currencies will evaporate.

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 12:54 PM
Yes, when quantum computers are available, the basis for the integrity of bit coin fiat currencies will evaporate.And so will the basis for all electronic banking if not upgraded, but of course it will be upgraded. (And bitcoin is designed for that eventuality.) And bitcoin is not "fiat", unlike all the national currencies we already use.

DJofSD
10-12-2014, 12:59 PM
I stand corrected. No it is not a fiat currency. To the best of my knowledge it is not approved by any government.

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 01:03 PM
As an aid to understanding, it may be helpful to think of bitcoin as a virtual precious metal rather than a currency and all the confusion that seems to bring. Since the IRS has announced it will be treating bitcoin as property for tax purposes, that is essentially what it is for those in the USA (that wish to remain within the boundaries set by the IRS). And so like any other precious metal these days, the value goes up and down, it is a "real" thing that cannot be created out of thin air (despite it being virtual, I realize this is confusing for some) but it can be lost (it can't actually be destroyed, but it can be lost in such a way that it cannot be recovered -- always out of reach as it were) or stolen (individually stolen through individual theft or con, not by "hacking the system"), etc. You can even keep it in your safe deposit box...

JustRalph
10-12-2014, 01:05 PM
Bitcoin is designed to be tougher to mine based on how much bitcoin has previously been mined. If faster computers start mining, the algorithm adjusts.

It should be interesting to see the future though

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 01:05 PM
I stand corrected. No it is not a fiat currency. To the best of my knowledge it is not approved by any government.
It is not "legal tender", anywhere, that's true, and a few places have tried to outlaw it (kind of, Thailand I think). The fact that the IRS has simply declared it "property" for now and has given reporting guidelines for those that might be paid for work in bitcoin is telling...

DJofSD
10-12-2014, 01:05 PM
I'd say no more or no less virtual than the Federal Reserve Notes.

DJofSD
10-12-2014, 01:07 PM
It is not "legal tender", anywhere, that's true, and a few places have tried to outlaw it (kind of, Thailand I think). The fact that the IRS has simply declared it "property" for now and has given reporting guidelines for those that might be paid for work in bitcoin is telling...
Perhaps I'm off base but I think of it as a medium for barter.

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 01:10 PM
Perhaps I'm off base but I think of it as a medium for barter.Yeah, kind of like "money"...

JJMartin
10-12-2014, 01:39 PM
One of the main things if not the main driving force behind the popularity of Bitcoin is it's use in anonymous transactions for black market purposes. You can exchange huge amounts of money with no tracking.

Bitcoin "value" took a hit when Mt.Gox, an exchange for Bitcoin from Japan went down and disappeared with millions of dollars worth of people's Bitcoins earlier this year. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

davew
10-12-2014, 05:11 PM
even if it is a legitimate monetary device, it is acting like an investment bubble

I missed the tulip bulb craze and don't mind watching from the sidelines for quite some time, if not forever.


I do not understand the 'mining' or 'farming' of bitcoins - are more units generated out of thin air?

GameTheory
10-12-2014, 05:34 PM
even if it is a legitimate monetary device, it is acting like an investment bubble

I missed the tulip bulb craze and don't mind watching from the sidelines for quite some time, if not forever.


I do not understand the 'mining' or 'farming' of bitcoins - are more units generated out of thin air?
It is kind of like the project to find prime numbers -- it is harder and harder to find new ones. But the rate is actually controlled by the bitcoin algorithm and the total will be capped at 21 millionish.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

JustRalph
10-12-2014, 11:29 PM
Saw this in opening of the Simpsons

Dave Schwartz
10-13-2014, 09:18 AM
Mt.Gox

that is why I asked the questions that I asked. Whenever I ask such questions, the ultimate goal is to get around to discussing security. The response I get is always a lot like how we had to vote in the ACA before we could understand it.

That is, I would get a response like, "oh you don't need to worry about that. It is all taken care of for you." in other words the final answer is, "nobody knows."

That, ultimately, translates into, "there is none."

PaceAdvantage
10-13-2014, 11:28 AM
Anyway, if you compare bitcoin to how our normal currency currently "works" and you have a good understanding of both (if that's even possible for anyone), I'm not sure bitcoin would be ranked the more "scammy" of the two. (In fact it is pretty hard to see it coming out on top on the scam-o-meter.) And of course no one is requiring you to know anything about bitcoin, or give it the slightest bit of attention...Hitting the nail square on the head with this one... :ThmbUp:

GameTheory
10-13-2014, 11:45 AM
Mt.Gox

that is why I asked the questions that I asked. Whenever I ask such questions, the ultimate goal is to get around to discussing security. The response I get is always a lot like how we had to vote in the ACA before we could understand it.

That is, I would get a response like, "oh you don't need to worry about that. It is all taken care of for you." in other words the final answer is, "nobody knows."

That, ultimately, translates into, "there is none."
Well, if you ask random people you're going to get random answers. Everything that has happened has been pretty predictable considering it is an emerging unregulated thing dreamed up by computer geeks. So high risk/high reward, naturally. Bad things then happen, security breaches, bubbles, lots of ignorant people jumping in hoping to make a score: well, this is how regulations come about. (Japan is now creating regulations to treat bitcoin as a commodity, as I said -- more like a precious metal than a currency is where it is going.)

So the question is...will it be regulated to the point that it loses all its special advantages (at which point why would anyone use it, maybe other than it already exists?) or can a happy medium be reached where it could be made safe enough for normal people to use normally but still keep its essential uncentralized property, etc.

So "you don't need to worry about it", "nobody knows", etc...really meaning that ultimately meaning there is no security...well, that's not true -- there is security, but security can fail. ANY security for anything. And it often does under extreme circumstances. Security in most everything (including the US Dollar) is mostly illusory, and things that seem mostly secure are simply those things where extreme circumstances happen the least often.

Bitcoin is new, it has/had value, and so its very existence is an extreme circumstance until it gets settled, if it ever does. And so all highly predictable in nature if not in specifics. But who exactly at this point would be looking to bitcoin for a "secure" option when it obviously is at the "wild west" stage of its development? At its heart, it IS actually pretty secure, but if the exchanges and marketplaces can't be made secure also so transactions can be safely made without your bitcoins going missing I guess that won't matter much...

DJofSD
10-13-2014, 11:48 AM
You will know bit coin has arrived when it becomes a part of the WSOP/WPT.

barn32
10-14-2014, 09:11 AM
And of course no one is requiring you to know anything about bitcoin, or give it the slightest bit of attention...Until someone tries to pay me with it.

GameTheory
10-14-2014, 10:37 AM
Until someone tries to pay me with it.
No one will just send you bitcoin, they'd have to ask and you'd say no, which is the answer they usually hear. Not really a big burden on you. You probably won't take a check either (and which are probably more risky than bitcoin, actually.)

Dave Schwartz
10-14-2014, 11:02 AM
Well, if you ask random people you're going to get random answers.

I would contend that there isn't anyone else to ask.


Security in most everything (including the US Dollar) is mostly illusory, and things that seem mostly secure are simply those things where extreme circumstances happen the least often.

While that is certainly a true statement, there are certainly degrees of security. For example if I loan my friend Bob $5000, that is a debt with a significant degree of INSECURITY. If I put that same $5000 into a bank CD, there is also a degree of insecurity, but far less than with my friend Bob. (You knew Bobby, like I know Bobby, oh, oh…)


Game Theory, your discourse here has provided more inside that I have been able to get from anyone else. It is appreciated.

Question: Why would a person doing business via "normal channels" ever want or need bitcoin?

tucker6
10-14-2014, 12:36 PM
Question: Why would a person doing business via "normal channels" ever want or need bitcoin?
That is the question isn't it? Successful business is about making the transaction easy for all involved. What about normal currency use (easy transaction) forces one to ask the other party whether they would deal in bitcoin (more difficult transaction)? The obvious answer is that at least one of the parties wishes to hid elements of the transaction, but that seems too easy an answer. Would like to understand the psychology behind bitcoin from its beginnings to now, and whether it is being used as a real currency or as a protest against regulatory bodies.

Magister Ludi
10-15-2014, 11:23 PM
Probably not very important to most on this forum in spite of Mr. Snowden's disclosures. However, for those who highly value their privacy or whose very lives depend on their online anonymity, cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins (BTC) can anonymously purchase goods and services and help to keep their online pseudoanonymous identities (nyms) compartmentalized and isolated from their real identities.

My most anonymous online nym surfs behind nested multihop vpn's purchased anonymously from multiple providers with BTC. In meatspace, my first choices for making purchases are cash, cryptocurrencies, and anonymously-purchased prepaid debit cards. I have no fear of ever being compromised by three-letter agencies or haxors, thanks, in part, to cryptocurrencies and deeply ingrained operational security.

GameTheory
10-15-2014, 11:53 PM
Yes, the driving force behind "why?" I believe is because...libertarianism. And so AT THIS STAGE, why would a "normal" person want to use bitcoin? (Other than to make a score on trading, mining etc.) The answer is they probably wouldn't. However, if you do buying and selling with customers in far flung places where traditional methods are still fairly risky, bitcoin can provide some peace of mind there (especially if you are the seller and are going to be paid up front) -- bitcoin allows irreversible and secure transactions with little to no fees.

I gave the example of my own where I was selling something to a guy from India whom I had no reason to trust, and PayPal has proven that if the buyer wants to screw you (which is even easier across borders), they will side with them. So bitcoin allowed that transaction to happen. Also because of the emerging nature of bitcoin and other reasons, you will find that those that have bitcoin to spend are more likely to be in Asia or in places you might not normally be doing much business. If you can accept bitcoin as a seller of things you can expand your market by doing so. You might not think the advantages of bitcoin are a big deal as an American, but for those with whom you might do business with around the world those advantages may be quite significant.

highnote
10-18-2014, 03:48 PM
Here is a link to an interview with a person who claims to know the person who invented bitcoin. The interviewee is involved with the bitcoin.org open source project. :

http://thisweekinstartups.com/bitcoin-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-amir-taaki-on-this-week-in-startups-140/

I watched this a couple of years ago. I was struck by the fact that the bitcoin person said he was going to Washington D.C. to discuss bitcoins with the CIA.

The fact that a few years have passed, the CIA is interested and the U.S. gov't has not tried to regulate them tells me that bitcoins are here to stay or the U.S. is taking a wait and see attitude like they did with internet regulation.

The interview is definitely worth watching if you are interested in bitcoins.

JustRalph
10-18-2014, 04:40 PM
It's been rumored that the CIA actually started the bitcoin thing. It's also been rumored that the CIA pays it's operatives this way in foreign countries.

I tend to fall back to that when I look at the big picture. Think about it. A covert agency needs a covert currency. Look at how bitcoin has grown in relation to the amount of terrorist stuff and general conflict in the world. Overseas operations must be way up? Bitcoin grows right along beside the turmoil in the world. I wouldn't be shocked at all if someday we find out that the CIA and MI6 or whomever got together to create it

highnote
10-18-2014, 04:52 PM
I don't know if the CIA invented it, but their investment division called InQTel https://www.iqt.org/ was the division that met with the bitcoin.org operator.

I'm sure the CIA is interested in bitcoin because they need ways to funnel money to various individuals and organizations.

DJofSD
10-22-2014, 10:54 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-21/bitcoin-miner-ditches-clients-to-chase-2-billion-coding-prize.html?hootPostID=d4655142b038c7f8e8d9284ff9b5 b394

A Swedish company that estimates its equipment is behind about 25 percent of the bitcoins being generated has had enough of servicing unhappy clients.

KnCMiner has stopped selling hardware and is instead expanding its own data center where thousands of its machines mine bitcoin and similar software by solving complex algorithms.

JustRalph
02-07-2015, 02:46 AM
http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/06/a-rare-look-inside-a-massive-bitcoin-mine/

Bitcoin farm from hell

tucker6
02-07-2015, 03:16 PM
went from $644 to $227 in one year. Looks like Cabbage Patch dolls, Beanie Babies, and Dutch roses.

Saratoga_Mike
02-07-2015, 09:17 PM
went from $644 to $227 in one year. Looks like Cabbage Patch dolls, Beanie Babies, and Dutch roses.

And the best part is the Winklevoss twins bought into the mania hook, line and sinker. God bless Mark Z for getting the best of them.

tucker6
03-31-2016, 11:45 AM
went from $644 to $227 in one year. Looks like Cabbage Patch dolls, Beanie Babies, and Dutch roses.
and a year later back up to $413. Hmm. :rolleyes:

barahona44
04-03-2016, 12:19 AM
went from $644 to $227 in one year. Looks like Cabbage Patch dolls, Beanie Babies, and Dutch roses.
I think you meant Dutch tulips.

tucker6
04-03-2016, 10:11 AM
I think you meant Dutch tulips.
Ha, yes indeed.

sammy the sage
04-04-2016, 09:09 PM
Ponzi...period...end of discussion..

headhawg
04-05-2016, 06:41 PM
Ponzi...period...end of discussion..Really? Is the $20 bill in your pocket worth $20? It's just a piece of paper that people agree is worth 20 bucks. Just because bitcoin is digital doesn't mean that it has less buying power. Currency is a replacement for direct bartering. Does it matter if it's digital or a piece of paper? Or do you think that for all the dollars that circulated the US has gold to make it worth what they tell us it's worth? The economy can crash regardless of how much gold is in Fort Knox or wherever it is alleged to be stored.

highnote
04-05-2016, 08:43 PM
Really? Is the $20 bill in your pocket worth $20? It's just a piece of paper that people agree is worth 20 bucks. Just because bitcoin is digital doesn't mean that it has less buying power. Currency is a replacement for direct bartering. Does it matter if it's digital or a piece of paper? Or do you think that for all the dollars that circulated the US has gold to make it worth what they tell us it's worth? The economy can crash regardless of how much gold is in Fort Knox or wherever it is alleged to be stored.


Even the price of gold fluctuates.

sammy the sage
04-06-2016, 09:39 PM
Really? Is the $20 bill in your pocket worth $20? It's just a piece of paper that people agree is worth 20 bucks. Just because bitcoin is digital doesn't mean that it has less buying power. Currency is a replacement for direct bartering. Does it matter if it's digital or a piece of paper? Or do you think that for all the dollars that circulated the US has gold to make it worth what they tell us it's worth? The economy can crash regardless of how much gold is in Fort Knox or wherever it is alleged to be stored.

that $20 bill is a Ponzi scheme also...and you KNOW that also....