Car dealers

[FantasticDan]

So the wife and I went to a car dealer recently looking for a used car for her mother. The small Toyota she currently drives has been great, but it's on its last legs and has negligible trade-in value. She's almost 80 years old and only needs it for local errands and such. We're looking to spend somewhere between $4-6K cash if possible. Tough to find something in nice shape for that price, even a small car.

So after casually looking around for weeks, I spot a 2004 Nissan that might fit the bill, the oldest, cheapest used car on the lot. It's small and in good shape for its age. Only trouble is the dealer wants $7k for it.

My wife and I explain the situation and that $6k is our limit, and the salesman says, well, sorry, I don't think my manager is going to come off the price that much. He also seemed completely uninterested in letting us test-drive the vehicle.

He then proceeds to take us into his office and tries to interest us in cars that cost $10K.. :mad: :bang:

I know he was just doing his job (make as much $$ off the sucker as possible), but it just reinforced to me why when I buy a car, I drive it til it drops. Can't stand this whole process. :ThmbDown:

[GameTheory]

For something like that, a private sale sounds like a better option. Or if she doesn't drive that often, $6K in a fund to be used for a car service catering to the elderly might last a while...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Car dealerships, dealers, and their in-laws the "certified technician" have managed to turn car ownership into a chore. These jackoffs are all on my long list of people to avoid at all costs. For that money look at a private sale and avoid the hassle if possible.

* I know we have a few car dealers here and you guys are of course the exception just like the horsemen here are the exception to the all horsemen are crooks, liars, and cheats rule.

[TJDave]

I've bought several vehicles off Craig's List. Never had a problem.

[Dave Schwartz]

Several years ago we were educated into understanding about how the new car business works these days. Apparently they are in it for the service!

We found that because we had taken our car to a "trustworthy garage" to get service done at reasonable prices (i.e. $35 for oil change, etc.) rather than the $129 the dealer wanted, we were persona non grata at the dealership for ANY repair!

Example: When a tire sensor went out, they said that they would only replace all 4 of them (at over $200 each) rather than take the time to test which one was throwing the error.

A friend purchased a truck at Costco years ago. The local dealer refused to receive and prep the truck, so he had to drive to Fallon (1 hr away) to a dealer that would. The dealer also refused to do any warranty work.

Please note that the dealer I am talking about is famous for having the largest profit-per-sale of any Dodge dealer in the country.

[GameTheory]

Many mechanics offer an inspection of older cars (there is a AAA program for that too) so if you find one you like from a private person and they'll let you take it in for inspection so for a little extra $$$ for peace of mind. (Last time I did something like that was in the 90s -- cost me about $80 I think, so it is maybe $200 or more now, I have no idea...) There is also CarFax, etc. I bought a Mazda once that had been written off previously as totaled ("salvage" title) for $1500 -- got another 40K miles out of it...

[Stillriledup]

So the wife and I went to a car dealer recently looking for a used car for her mother. The small Toyota she currently drives has been great, but it's on its last legs and has negligible trade-in value. She's almost 80 years old and only needs it for local errands and such. We're looking to spend somewhere between $4-6K cash if possible. Tough to find something in nice shape for that price, even a small car.

So after casually looking around for weeks, I spot a 2004 Nissan that might fit the bill, the oldest, cheapest used car on the lot. It's small and in good shape for its age. Only trouble is the dealer wants $7k for it.

My wife and I explain the situation and that $6k is our limit, and the salesman says, well, sorry, I don't think my manager is going to come off the price that much. He also seemed completely uninterested in letting us test-drive the vehicle.

He then proceeds to take us into his office and tries to interest us in cars that cost $10K.. :mad: :bang:

I know he was just doing his job (make as much $$ off the sucker as possible), but it just reinforced to me why when I buy a car, I drive it til it drops. Can't stand this whole process. :ThmbDown:

The process is "yukky" thats why the term "used car salesman" is thrown around a lot as an unflattering term outside of the used car world.

[HUSKER55]

GO to a decent dealer and lease the car. You might be surprised at what you can get.

[FantasticDan]

For something like that, a private sale sounds like a better option.I'm definitely open to that option, but it seems like there's next to nothing in my local newspaper. I've also casually looked on Auto Trader and eBay and haven't come up with much, haven't ventured on to Craig's list yet.

[PhantomOnTour]

Wonderful people :rolleyes:

Had some folks in my restaurant who announced to me that they wanted to "negotiate" prices on some of my nicer wines...no problem...until they also stated that they were car salesman from Jersey. Oh boy...
(okay, don't know what Jersey has to do with this, but they included it so I thought I would too :D )

They wanted a Dominus and a Far Niente cabernet, both excellent wines and they sell for about $200 each.
Their offer?...$250 for both of them :lol:
I declined, and they became a bit confrontational and began to tag team me, like I was at the dealership or something :)

In the end they bought one bottle for $175 and acted like dicks the rest of the evening.
By the way...those of you who eat out and buy nice wines for your meal, you can negotiate price (just like a car)...but only on bottles upwards of about $150 and over. Hey, I paid a nice price for these and want to move them, so any good offer is accepted.
I will usually knock $10-$20 off the price of an expensive bottle in order to get the sale.

[GameTheory]

I'm definitely open to that option, but it seems like there's next to nothing in my local newspaper. I've also casually looked on Auto Trader and eBay and haven't come up with much, haven't ventured on to Craig's list yet.
CL has replaced the newspaper nearly completely...

[GameTheory]

..and acted like dicks the rest of the evening...And before the meal. And after the meal. And for the rest of their lives, most likely.

[ArlJim78]

Was your experience anything like this?
E5gwc4UizUc

[wisconsin]

Wonderful people :rolleyes:

Had some folks in my restaurant who announced to me that they wanted to "negotiate" prices on some of my nicer wines...no problem...until they also stated that they were car salesman from Jersey. Oh boy...
(okay, don't know what Jersey has to do with this, but they included it so I thought I would too :D )

They wanted a Dominus and a Far Niente cabernet, both excellent wines and they sell for about $200 each.
Their offer?...$250 for both of them :lol:
I declined, and they became a bit confrontational and began to tag team me, like I was at the dealership or something :)

In the end they bought one bottle for $175 and acted like dicks the rest of the evening.
By the way...those of you who eat out and buy nice wines for your meal, you can negotiate price (just like a car)...but only on bottles upwards of about $150 and over. Hey, I paid a nice price for these and want to move them, so any good offer is accepted.
I will usually knock $10-$20 off the price of an expensive bottle in order to get the sale.

Now you know what my life is like. Nothing worse than a know it all grinder. I know what we can do and also what we can't. The Internet has simply caused an outright whore fest.

Having said that, Dan, your money simply does not go far on a used car. The average car on the road is nearly 12 years old! As for the $7000 car, I would not move from that price either because that car will sell eventually.

Regarding the Bullshit rap we get, I work for the dealership in town (7500) going on 15 years. I have sold nearly 3000 cars, many repeat customers. These are the same people I see in town. Everyone claims to have a story, but the facts are usually embellished a bit.

[thaskalos]

I went out looking for a new car at a dealership in Westmont IL, about a month ago...and I found a car to my liking. The salesman wouldn't budge from the sticker price...telling me that there is a very thin profit margin on new cars. I asked him what he could do if I paid him cash for the car...and he replied that cash is not a good incentive for him, because he makes his money on the financing. I got up to leave...and he made no effort to stop me.

But he has left me at least 10 voice messages asking me to return to his place for a better deal. I was there but he let me leave. And now I am supposed to go back. :bang:

[AndyC]

A friend purchased a truck at Costco years ago. The local dealer refused to receive and prep the truck, so he had to drive to Fallon (1 hr away) to a dealer that would. The dealer also refused to do any warranty work.

Costco never has sold cars. They have a program whereby participating dealers will sell cars at a pre-determined profit. Generally it is $300-$500 over net dealer invoice. AAA has a similar program. I have purchased cars from both programs and never had a problem.

It was likely that your friend purchased a truck where there was no participating dealer closer than Fallon.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I went out looking for a new car at a dealership in Westmont IL, about a month ago...and I found a car to my liking. The salesman wouldn't budge from the sticker price...telling me that there is a very thin profit margin on new cars. I asked him what he could do if I paid him cash for the car...and he replied that cash is not a good incentive for him, because he makes his money on the financing. I got up to leave...and he made no effort to stop me.

But he has left me at least 10 voice messages asking me to return to his place for a better deal. I was there but he let me leave. And now I am supposed to go back. :bang:

Sounds like his end-of-quarter numbers needed a boost. Not sure if it's true any longer, but September has been traditionally one of the best months to buy new to make room for next year's models....

[headhawg]

I was in the business on-and-off for about a total of four years. I hated it. Saturday morning beat-u-up meetings were my favorite. :rolleyes: It takes a special kind of person to be a car salesman. However, that experience does make it easier for me to buy a car now as I just won't take any bs. I just tell the salesperson right up front that I sold cars before. In fact, if I find something that I like and am ready to buy I just ask for the sales manager anyway, simply to cut through most of the crapola.

The first auto manufacturer that goes to corporate-owned showrooms with salaried (no commision/bonuses) employees will probably gain an advantage with consumers, and will probably sell more cars all other things being equal. It probably won't happen, but perhaps eventually the majority of people will get sick of bad customer service and choose the retailer/dealership/restaurant that delivers the best experience. Consumers just need to quit subsidizing places with poor customer service, and let the bad businesses fall by the wayside. People are just too tolerant of poor customer service. I mean, look no further than horseplayers...

[wisconsin]

Sounds like his end-of-quarter numbers needed a boost. Not sure if it's true any longer, but September has been traditionally one of the best months to buy new to make room for next year's models


Myth

Next years models come out all summer long nowadays.

We sell at invoice all year. Rebates for 2015 models on the ground (Ford, anyway) are as good as a 2014.

[wisconsin]

The first auto manufacturer that goes to corporate-owned showrooms with salaried (no commision/bonuses) employees will probably gain an advantage with consumers, and will probably sell more cars all other things being equal.

See Saturn.

[JustRalph]

Dan, keep your eyes peeled for a low mileage Buick. Lots of them out there. Great value and tons of nice options for little money. The V6 Buick gets great gas mileage too

[Clocker]

The first auto manufacturer that goes to corporate-owned showrooms with salaried (no commision/bonuses) employees will probably gain an advantage with consumers, and will probably sell more cars all other things being equal.

Many (most?) states prohibit manufacturers selling directly to customers. Tesla has been fighting this in court without success.

Article (http://www.thewire.com/business/2014/03/why-does-tesla-need-dealers-sell-you-car-new-jersey/359084/)

[NJ Stinks]

Everyone claims to have a story, but the facts are usually embellished a bit.

Same thing with the IRS, Mr. Badger. More refunds are handed out than anything else but nobody ever seems to talk about that. ;)

[johnhannibalsmith]

... More refunds are handed out than anything else but nobody ever seems to talk about that. ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Handed out..."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know that when I used to use a bank I was always appreciative when they allowed me to have my money. What a nice gesture, handing out money. The only thing I can thing of that would be even nicer is if they confiscated it from me right off the bat and I could only get what was mine at the end of the year after paying off one of their buddies and former classmates to fill out a bunch of crap paper and pray that they will eventually approve my money that was stolen to be "handed out".

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clocker]

"Handed out..."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All your money are belong to us. Resistance is futile.

[Tom]

Handed out - without the interest it should have earned for that new who EARNED it.

The Kremlin, the KGB, the Spanish Inquisition, The IRS......different year, same organization.

GD the IRS.

[Clocker]

Handed out - without the interest it should have earned for that new who EARNED it.

You are an ingrate. You probably don't appreciate it when you buy a coffee and donut at a convenience store, and they give you a hand out of your change from a $5 bill.

[Dahoss2002]

I went out looking for a new car at a dealership in Westmont IL, about a month ago...and I found a car to my liking. The salesman wouldn't budge from the sticker price...telling me that there is a very thin profit margin on new cars. I asked him what he could do if I paid him cash for the car...and he replied that cash is not a good incentive for him, because he makes his money on the financing. I got up to leave...and he made no effort to stop me.

But he has left me at least 10 voice messages asking me to return to his place for a better deal. I was there but he let me leave. And now I am supposed to go back. :bang:
Guy hadda be ignorant. I have run into a few that cannot understand"cash." "How much will you take for it right now?" "UGGH, what if I can get your payment at 550 a month?" Some of them will never get it. Your guy realized it later so he called you back

[Dahoss2002]

I'm definitely open to that option, but it seems like there's next to nothing in my local newspaper. I've also casually looked on Auto Trader and eBay and haven't come up with much, haven't ventured on to Craig's list yet.
Be patient with AUTOTRADER. Good deals come up on there. Also , when I am buying a used car I usually get a 90 day subscription to "AUTOCHECK". It is the poor man's version of CARFAX but still gives you an idea about where your car came from.

[wisconsin]

Guy hadda be ignorant. I have run into a few that cannot understand"cash." "How much will you take for it right now?" "UGGH, what if I can get your payment at 550 a month?" Some of them will never get it. Your guy realized it later so he called you back

Ummm the dealer could not care less if you offer cash. We do get reserve on the interest for a loan. We make more when you finance the car.

And, if you go to the bank to get a loan, they make even more than we do on the loan.

[davew]

you probably could get a rather nice one at auction with that much cash

[Dahoss2002]

Ummm the dealer could not care less if you offer cash. We do get reserve on the interest for a loan. We make more when you finance the car.

And, if you go to the bank to get a loan, they make even more than we do on the loan.

So if the dealers' bottom dollar on a car is 20K, he will turn down my 20K cash offer to make a sale. I thought they were in the business of moving cars. Learn something new everyday.

[JustRalph]

Ummm the dealer could not care less if you offer cash. We do get reserve on the interest for a loan. We make more when you finance the car.

And, if you go to the bank to get a loan, they make even more than we do on the loan.

Do dealers still pay interest on new cars that sit too long? The way some of these rebate deals are working, it seems that they don't

[JustRalph]

So if the dealers' bottom dollar on a car is 20K, he will turn down my 20K cash offer to make a sale. I thought they were in the business of moving cars. Learn something new everyday.

Been like that for a long time. Financing and scheduled Maint. is where the money is. Just from watching the things they promote, I draw that conclusion.

Car salesmen don't make near the money they did back in the day. 50 dollar mini deals ......

[wisconsin]

So if the dealers' bottom dollar on a car is 20K, he will turn down my 20K cash offer to make a sale. I thought they were in the business of moving cars. Learn something new everyday.

Nobody said that. The customers often come in, trying to go BELOW my bottom line and dangle the "cash" thing. It does not work.

A fresh unit that will bring the money, why would we let that go at a low profit margin just because someone yells "cash"?

Thask, what were you looking at? Some hard to replace new cars do go at sticker sometimes.

[wisconsin]

Do dealers still pay interest on new cars that sit too long? The way some of these rebate deals are working, it seems that they don't


Our dealership floor plans the new cars, but we own our used stock outright, so we are NEVER in a hurry to simply whore out a good used car that is a money maker.

For the record, the under $8000 car is the most sought after vehicle, and they fly off of the lot. Any car you see on the street, craigslist, etc. that is 10 years old and cheap needs some work.

[thaskalos]

Nobody said that. The customers often come in, trying to go BELOW my bottom line and dangle the "cash" thing. It does not work.

A fresh unit that will bring the money, why would we let that go at a low profit margin just because someone yells "cash"?

Thask, what were you looking at? Some hard to replace new cars do go at sticker sometimes.
I wasn't dangling the cash to try to go below his bottom line. It's just that I grew up believing that the sticker price is never the real "bottom line". It used to be that a lump-sum payoff generated SOME excitement over the instalment method...and it still does in many circles. If you win the lotto, for instance...the lump sum is negotiated only with a deep discount. I guess car selling is different.

But what surprised me wasn't that he initially turned me down. He knew that I lived a half-hour's drive away from his place...and he still let me drive away. And now he thinks I am going back? I mean...there are plenty of car dealerships closer to my home, doesn't he know that? What's the matter with some of these guys...don't they need the business? :)

[wisconsin]

I wasn't dangling the cash to try to go below his bottom line. It's just that I grew up believing that the sticker price is never the real "bottom line". It used to be that a lump-sum payoff generated SOME excitement over the instalment method...and it still does in many circles. If you win the lotto, for instance...the lump sum is negotiated only with a deep discount. I guess car selling is different.

But what surprised me wasn't that he initially turned me down. He knew that I lived a half-hour's drive away from his place...and he still let me drive away. And now he thinks I am going back? I mean...there are plenty of car dealerships closer to my home, doesn't he know that? What's the matter with some of these guys...don't they need the business? :)


Were you looking at a new car or used. Many dealers are ONE price only on used and do let you walk away. Not always the salesman's fault. We never go lower than our advertised Internet price, for instance, and people don't understand, yet it was the price that led them here in the first place.

[thaskalos]

Were you looking at a new car or used. Many dealers are ONE price only on used and do let you walk away. Not always the salesman's fault. We never go lower than our advertised Internet price, for instance, and people don't understand, yet it was the price that led them here in the first place.
I was looking for a new car...and he told me that he couldn't go below the sticker price because there was already a very slim profit margin on the new cars. I was supposed to believe that the sticker price was the guy's bottom line? I've been negotiating all my life, for heaven's sake...and I've never gotten so pissed off that I drove away in disgust. I've walked away as part of the negotiating act, sure...but never left the place altogether. The guy was either an idiot, or he didn't need the business.

What ever happened to the motto that you don't let a live one drive away?

[ReplayRandall]

We never go lower than our advertised Internet price, for instance, and people don't understand, yet it was the price that led them here in the first place.

Helped out a friend trying to buy via Internet, and ran into the same situation 3 times. Called to lock-up a deal on 3 different cars, in 3 different states and was told the following in each case: "We're sorry, but that vehicle was purchased 2 hours ago, but we have another deal which may interest you".........Classic Bait and Switch. Ended up going to auctions in Penn. and AZ, paying an average of $3000 less than dealerships after shipping to FLA..........Cash is still the King.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Cash is still the King.

Long may He live!

[Greyfox]

I was looking for a new car...and he told me that he couldn't go below the sticker price because there was already a very slim profit margin on the new cars. I was supposed to believe that the sticker price was the guy's bottom line? I've been negotiating all my life, for heaven's sake...and I've never gotten so pissed off that I drove away in disgust. I've walked away as part of the negotiating act, sure...but never left the place altogether. The guy was either an idiot, or he didn't need the business.

What ever happened to the motto that you don't let a live one drive away?

My wife recently bought a new car.

Dave Schwartz is right.
There is very little profit on the price of new cars.
Dealers don't want you paying cash.
They want you to buy into their financing schemes, and their warranties.
Dealers make most of their profits on Service.
They want you to buy the car on the condition that it will be serviced by their mechanics. That is where they make their bucks.

[AndyC]

My wife recently bought a new car.

Dave Schwartz is right.
There is very little profit on the price of new cars.
Dealers don't want you paying cash.
They want you to buy into their financing schemes, and their warranties.
Dealers make most of their profits on Service.
They want you to buy the car on the condition that it will be serviced by their mechanics. That is where they make their bucks.

If that is true, and I believe it is, then they would still jump at a chance for a cash sale so they would have another car to service.

I could see them playing hardball with an out-of-towner on a cash sale because it only serves to reduce their inventory with very little upside.

[Greyfox]

If that is true, and I believe it is, then they would still jump at a chance for a cash sale so they would have another car to service.

I could see them playing hardball with an out-of-towner on a cash sale because it only serves to reduce their inventory with very little upside.

I wouldn't want to drive 30 minutes to have my car serviced.
Time is money too.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I wouldn't want to drive 30 minutes to have my car serviced.
Time is money too.

I wouldn't want to drive 30 seconds to about 95% of all dealerships and their "certified technicians". As has been mentioned numerous times, buying the car feels like the waist bend, the next however many months or years is when they actually climax.

[wisconsin]

Helped out a friend trying to buy via Internet, and ran into the same situation 3 times. Called to lock-up a deal on 3 different cars, in 3 different states and was told the following in each case: "We're sorry, but that vehicle was purchased 2 hours ago, but we have another deal which may interest you".........Classic Bait and Switch. Ended up going to auctions in Penn. and AZ, paying an average of $3000 less than dealerships after shipping to FLA..........Cash is still the King.


I am sure that there is more to this story if you had to look at cars in 3 different states.

[delayjf]

Having said that, Dan, your money simply does not go far on a used car

Depends on what you are buying, I have personally gotten over a 2 hundred thousand miles out of two used cars, I currently drive a 91 Nissan with 280k to work. I've paid for things as they have worn out like clutches, starters etc. But that is still cheaper than a new car payment every month.

If all you are looking for is realiable transportation for local driving. You can find all kinds of Honda Accords, Camrays, Sentras etc with over 100k that will easily make it another 100K for a quarter of the cost of a new car.

[thaskalos]

Long may He live!

My hunch is that the "King" is on his way out. Try buying any even MODERATELY-expensive item using cash, and see the reception that you'll get. For 3 years now, I only use credit cards for car rentals and hotel reservations on vacation...and pay cash for every other transaction -- regardless of the amount. When I buy certain high-priced items...they look at me as if I am a drug smuggler.

[johnhannibalsmith]

My hunch is that the "King" is on his way out. Try buying any even MODERATELY-expensive item using cash, and see the reception that you'll get. For 3 years now, I only use credit cards for car rentals and hotel reservations on vacation...and pay cash for every other transaction -- regardless of the amount. When I buy certain high-priced items...they look at me as if I am a drug smuggler.

Lucky for me, I don't spend much money in general. Mainly because I have less than ever, a very small amount most of the time. But, because I went to cash years ago (admitting right up front that a horsemen's bookkeeper can bridge some of the gap as a place to keep, release, and transfer funds for a business need) - unsurprisingly, I just don't need as much money.

But, since I first moved to pretty much all cash around 15 years ago, it is pretty amazing how strangely over that time entities have really gone to one of two sides of the road - either cash is useless or the exact opposite, cash is met with a sigh of relief and a reaction befitting a long awaited reunion.

I do appreciate that I can buy gift cards (though they have started to try to get you to register the cards, but you know, I'm sure Elvis "King" Presley himself probably has a few in his name) in the gas station now. I've been able to discover things like Amazon streaming that previously I just said oh well, not for me, they need to spread my information all across the planet via credit card transaction in order for me to be a member. I don't need anything that badly. I don't fly. I don't rent cars. I don't stay in most lodges. I couldn't. Oh well. I don't need to, so I won't. I bought chickens. With cash. Really as entertaining as any of the crap I'm missing out on by not allowing myself to be coerced into their little trap. Drop me out of a plane on top of an ISIS compound with one of their own vests the day I need to pay for what I really need in life with a card that announces who I am, what I am, how I am, and where I am to whoever wants to know.

Long live the King!

[wisconsin]

Depends on what you are buying, I have personally gotten over a 2 hundred thousand miles out of two used cars, I currently drive a 91 Nissan with 280k to work. I've paid for things as they have worn out like clutches, starters etc. But that is still cheaper than a new car payment every month.

If all you are looking for is realiable transportation for local driving. You can find all kinds of Honda Accords, Camrays, Sentras etc with over 100k that will easily make it another 100K for a quarter of the cost of a new car.

Yeah, but he could not find anything worth buying for his $4-6k, which is about a "quarter cost of a new car".

[delayjf]

Was recently shopping for a Car for my wife, best prices I found were on craigslist - where a lot of individual sellers are selling their cars. Purchased a 2010 Nissan Rogue with 15K miles for 14,500 - we love the car.

[Clocker]

Was recently shopping for a Car for my wife, best prices I found were on craigslist - where a lot of individual sellers are selling their cars. Purchased a 2010 Nissan Rogue with 15K miles for 14,500 - we love the car.

I have never purchased a used car from an individual other than low value cars for not much money back in the day. What kind of process did you go through so that you knew you were getting a good title and they knew that they were getting a good check?

[FantasticDan]

I have never purchased a used car from an individual other than low value cars for not much money back in the day. What kind of process did you go through so that you knew you were getting a good title and they knew that they were getting a good check?Exactly. This is the kind of pain in the ass stuff I was trying to avoid by finding something in my range at a local dealer.

I've been looking at Craig's List, have found a couple interesting cars, one is about 40 minutes away, and the other more than an hour. So then you have to drive there, have a place to meet, look over the car, and then what? Exchange paperwork in the parking lot of the local Walmart? I'd want the car checked out by my mechanic, how do I pull that off?

The car I'm driving now was purchased privately, but the guy I bought it from was a dealer, he had purchased the car from his dealership when it came in as a trade, and had driven it for a year or so. He wouldn't accept a personal check, only a cashier's check or cash.

[Clocker]

Exactly. This is the kind of pain in the ass stuff I was trying to avoid by finding something in my range at a local dealer.

My bias is to buy from a dealer, knowing that I am paying more but getting more for it. In addition to title and payment and such, I know that there are no hidden problems with the car because I have at least a minimum warranty, and I don't have to go through the hassle of selling my old car, I just trade it to the dealer.

[RunForTheRoses]

What a bunch of peckerheads!

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/01/14/westport-car-dealership-messes-with-pizza-delivery-guy-feels-internet-wrath/zXO7rV6jreriD63xG0bj5L/story.html

(I know this is an old thread, don't want to go all SRU but stumbled upon the story and remembered this)

[MJC922]

Depends on what you are buying, I have personally gotten over a 2 hundred thousand miles out of two used cars, I currently drive a 91 Nissan with 280k to work. I've paid for things as they have worn out like clutches, starters etc. But that is still cheaper than a new car payment every month.

If all you are looking for is realiable transportation for local driving. You can find all kinds of Honda Accords, Camrays, Sentras etc with over 100k that will easily make it another 100K for a quarter of the cost of a new car.

I'm always amazed when people get this kind of mileage, whereabouts do you live? :) In upstate NY after that many miles of hitting potholes and salt you're lucky if you have a seat with tires. I've had cars up here with half that many miles and you could see pavement whizzing by through the holes in the front seat carpets.

[GameTheory]

I've been looking at Craig's List, have found a couple interesting cars, one is about 40 minutes away, and the other more than an hour. So then you have to drive there, have a place to meet, look over the car, and then what? Exchange paperwork in the parking lot of the local Walmart? I'd want the car checked out by my mechanic, how do I pull that off?I know this is old, but...

You go to their house. You introduce yourself to one another like adults. You take a test drive. If you like the car and it seems ok, you say you want to have your mechanic check it out. They say sure, of course you do. You arrange to do that ASAP that day or the next, maybe you give them a couple hundred in cash in advance so they know you're not wasting their time and will follow through. You know who they are, they know who you are. So you take the car to the mechanic, and if you still want it you agree on final price. (And these days you would also probably get a carfax or whatever on it.) If it is only a few thousand maybe you actually go get the cash, otherwise you say ok I'm going to bank to get a check, would you like to come with me? Then they can see the check come from the bank, and maybe they can deposit it immediately. They will say yes or no, and you go to the bank and finish up up the deal or you go get the check and bring it back. You see their title, it checks out, everything gets signed, money exchanged etc. What's the big deal? Isn't that how people have been buying cars privately from each other for forever?

Anything goes wrong, that's what the police and insurance are for. It is when people want to meet in parking lots that I am suspicious. I understand when people (especially single women) are selling small stuff on CL they don't necessarily want to reveal where they live to strangers, etc, but for a car or anything of any size or value? Please.

[badcompany]

Nobody said that. The customers often come in, trying to go BELOW my bottom line and dangle the "cash" thing. It does not work.

A fresh unit that will bring the money, why would we let that go at a low profit margin just because someone yells "cash"?

Thask, what were you looking at? Some hard to replace new cars do go at sticker sometimes.

Been meaning to chime in in this thread. As a Manhattanite, I'm not very experienced in the car buying process.

Let's say I was looking for a car with about 25k miles on it, and the dealer has it for, say, 22k.

What would I offer if I were to pay?

1. 100% cash.

2. 1/2 in cash and half financed.

Tx

Anyone else feel free to answer

[wisconsin]

Been meaning to chime in in this thread. As a Manhattanite, I'm not very experienced in the car buying process.

Let's say I was looking for a car with about 25k miles on it, and the dealer has it for, say, 22k.

What would I offer if I were to pay?

1. 100% cash.

2. 1/2 in cash and half financed.

Tx

Anyone else feel free to answer

A lot depends on the dealer's situation. If the car is a fresh unit, they may not budge at all. If it's aged, they may have lowered it to cost or below cost, in which case there is no room. Maybe the happy medium. We know what cars are selling for and can pull every like car up online in seconds, so the days of the "cheaper one elsewhere" can be proven or dismissed quickly. There is no magic mark-up on a car. Every one is different. If we acquire a dime-a-dozen type car, there is little margin, so it's a take it or leave it price. hard to replace cars are true gems for us. We will let a customer walk because we WILL get the money on that car.

We do not like cash deals. We get paid by the banks. Something about that, by the way, because people are confused. Banks loan money to people. If the buy rate is 2% and we let you out at 2.99%, we make money. When the bank lends you out at the same 2.99%, they make even more than we do. But hey, stick it to the dealer, because we are gouging, right?

Hope this helps a little.

[badcompany]

A lot depends on the dealer's situation. If the car is a fresh unit, they may not budge at all. If it's aged, they may have lowered it to cost or below cost, in which case there is no room. Maybe the happy medium. We know what cars are selling for and can pull every like car up online in seconds, so the days of the "cheaper one elsewhere" can be proven or dismissed quickly. There is no magic mark-up on a car. Every one is different. If we acquire a dime-a-dozen type car, there is little margin, so it's a take it or leave it price. hard to replace cars are true gems for us. We will let a customer walk because we WILL get the money on that car.

We do not like cash deals. We get paid by the banks. Something about that, by the way, because people are confused. Banks loan money to people. If the buy rate is 2% and we let you out at 2.99%, we make money. When the bank lends you out at the same 2.99%, they make even more than we do. But hey, stick it to the dealer, because we are gouging, right?

Hope this helps a little.

Thanks, Wisc.

To be clear, you're saying dealers would prefer you put down as little as possible?

If I could bother you with one more question.

I get conflicting answers on whether to buy new or with miles on it.

The argument for new is that you know there's no wear and tear; for used, it's that you're getting more bang for your buck because cars lose value quickly.

What say you?

[wisconsin]

Thanks, Wisc.

To be clear, you're saying dealers would prefer you put down as little as possible?

If I could bother you with one more question.

I get conflicting answers on whether to buy new or with miles on it.

The argument for new is that you know there's no wear and tear; for used, it's that you're getting more bang for your buck because cars lose value quickly.

What say you?

Some cars depreciate more than others. A good used car that's a couple of years old is the best purchase if the miles are decent. Cars are made so much better nowadays.

On a personal note, and I work for a dealer, I always prefer to buy new. Cars only lose value if you are looking to trade after a couple of years. if you keep them long, it's not as bad as people say.

[MJC922]

Some cars depreciate more than others. A good used car that's a couple of years old is the best purchase if the miles are decent. Cars are made so much better nowadays.

On a personal note, and I work for a dealer, I always prefer to buy new. Cars only lose value if you are looking to trade after a couple of years. if you keep them long, it's not as bad as people say.

Wisconsin thanks for posting out here. What are your thoughts on leasing? I may be getting into something new over the next 6 months, I have bought 6 new cars for family over the past 9 years, never leased but considering it this time. My 2010 is still in good shape but I'd like to get into something AWD and the cars I'm looking at can be pricey. Your take on leasing would be appreciated.

[wisconsin]

If you always seem to have a car payment, leasing is a great idea. The best lease scenarios, however, restrict your miles. Those lowball leases on TV often require large down payments, which really do not make sense for most people.

People like to say things like "but I won't own the car". Well, if you have a loan, you don't own it now, either.

Leasing is most effective on more expensive models, too. A lease payment of around 1% of MSRP is what you want to strive for.

[badcompany]

Sorry,

I thought of another.

How long does pre-approval for financing typically take once you've applied?

Tx.

[ReplayRandall]

Sorry,

I thought of another.

How long does pre-approval for financing typically take once you've applied?

Tx.

BC, ask if they'll throw in a set of snow-chains.... :D

[Dave Schwartz]

Wisconsin,

Learned a lot listening to you. Thank you.

On the topic of leasing...

1. Last time I looked at a lease (I think Reagan was in office LOL) they were classified as "open" or "closed" end leases. It is my understanding that nowadays they are all closed. Is that true?

2. If they leased vehicle loses excessive market value during the course of the lease, does the lessee have any liability?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[badcompany]

BC, ask if they'll throw in a set of snow-chains.... :D

It'll be in a garage during times like these. ;)

[wisconsin]

Sorry,

I thought of another.

How long does pre-approval for financing typically take once you've applied?

Tx.

Pre-approvals are fake. Means somebody like me looks at your credit and can tell you if you are viable or not. if you have decent credit, the decision takes 10 seconds. Computers, you know.

The only "approval: is when a bank says yes. People always try to pin a bank rate on me, and I have to always remind them that we are not the banks, we don't set the rates, yadda yadda yadda.

[wisconsin]

Wisconsin,

Learned a lot listening to you. Thank you.

On the topic of leasing...

1. Last time I looked at a lease (I think Reagan was in office LOL) they were classified as "open" or "closed" end leases. It is my understanding that nowadays they are all closed. Is that true?

2. If they leased vehicle loses excessive market value during the course of the lease, does the lessee have any liability?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

All leases from now are closed end, and you have no responsibility. The risk is on the manufacturer.

[badcompany]

Pre-approvals are fake. Means somebody like me looks at your credit and can tell you if you are viable or not. if you have decent credit, the decision takes 10 seconds. Computers, you know.

The only "approval: is when a bank says yes. People always try to pin a bank rate on me, and I have to always remind them that we are not the banks, we don't set the rates, yadda yadda yadda.

I get it. They're just pre-screening. So, if you come in, they already know their time isn't being wasted on someone with bad credit.

It's a good idea, IMO.

Thanks again.

[FantasticDan]

You go to their house. You introduce yourself to one another like adults. You take a test drive... What's the big deal? Isn't that how people have been buying cars privately from each other for forever?
Anything goes wrong, that's what the police and insurance are for. It is when people want to meet in parking lots that I am suspicious. I understand when people (especially single women) are selling small stuff on CL they don't necessarily want to reveal where they live to strangers, etc, but for a car or anything of any size or value? Please.I was reminded of these statements when watching this story on the news last night:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/suspect-craigslist-murder-elrey-june-runion-charged-28535382

http://wreg.com/2015/01/27/shelby-county-deputies-warn-about-online-retail-sites-after-ga-craigslist-murders/

I'm sure those poor folks thought there was no harm going to the seller's house, either.

I'm not suggesting that your points aren't perfectly logical, just that it's better to be safe than sorry, at least initially.

[badcompany]

I prefer a dealer, as well. Of course, as an amatuer going up against someone who deals cars for a living, you're probably gonna get the short end of the stick, but such is life.

[wisconsin]

I prefer a dealer, as well. Of course, as an amatuer going up against someone who deals cars for a living, you're probably gonna get the short end of the stick, but such is life.

Such a misconception. There has never in the history of car sales as much transparency as there is today. Do your research. It's out there. ALL of it.

[badcompany]

Such a misconception. There has never in the history of car sales as much transparency as there is today. Do your research. It's out there. ALL of it.

I don't disagree but IMO the dealer still has an edge simply because he knows the business better. I don't have a problem with that.

[Clocker]

Such a misconception. There has never in the history of car sales as much transparency as there is today. Do your research. It's out there. ALL of it.

That's my impression. The people in the industry have grown more professional over the years, and the product is getting better.

I was shocked when I went car shopping a few years ago and not a single person asked me "What will it take to put you in a car today" or "What are you looking for as a monthly payment".