Future Hall Of Fame Driver, Lol

[The Inside Scoop]

As I had mentioned around a month ago, Scott Zeron is an afterthought when your talking the sports top drivers. He is nowhere near one of the top drivers in the sport and if anyone thinks otherwise, they surely need to find another game to gamble on.

His drives today on Master Of Law and Lindys Tru Grit were horrible to say the least. As well, his cocky attitude when speaking about how great Artspeak was, came back to haunt him, karmas a bitch.

If you need more ammo just look at how many drives he has next week, over a 5 card period at Pocono and Philly. He has 15 drives over 5 cards of racing and a few of them are second call drives as well as one from his barn. That means the trainers are not impressed. That also means the owners are not impressed and do not want him driving their horses.

His cheerleading team who I finally had to ignore, surely wouldn't be saying a lot to rebuff my comments after watching him drive throughout the Red Mile meet. Lost is the best word I can come up with.

I would go further and say that now that most of the stakes are over with he should return to WEG and stay there.

Once again I tell it like it is and only post facts.

[badcompany]

Saw him drive a few NYSS horses over the Summer. There was nothing about him that struck as special.

[The Inside Scoop]

Saw him drive a few NYSS horses over the Summer. There was nothing about him that struck as special.

You are bang on with your assessment, he was not special.

He gave up on driving at Yonkers after nobody wanted to use him, due to his non agressive style and .180 UDRS. He now drives at Pocono (.241 UDRS) and Philly(.231 UDRS) where he has 15 drives out of 73 races the next 5 cards. He batted .263 at the Red Mile mailnly because he drove for a week against the likes of James Stillner and company before the Grand Circuit and won 3/4's of his 11 races he won, against them. The only place where he was well received was the Meadowlands and he didn't exactly set the world on fire driving against a very weak driving colony.

It will be tough for him to make a go of it driving 2 nights at The Meadowlands this winter when all the tracks close except Yonkers, where he would starve, so if he was smart he would say I tried, but I can't compete in the US and go home and race at WEG.

[The Inside Scoop]

Just to update you on what I wrote regarding Zeron as a future Hall of Famer. To date over a 4 card period his stats were as follows:

Today at Philly 4 drives
5
6
4
6

Last Night Pocono 6 drives
5
8
4
1
8
7

Yesterday afternoon Philly 2 drives
5
2

Tuesday Pocono 3 drives
9
5
9


15 drives out of 57 races, with a win and a second. Thats the guy I want to be gambkling on? Whats the ROI on him over those cards? Thats 42 races where he was not listed, whats that tell you? The owners and trainers love him? Hes in high demand? Hardly Hall of fame numbers one would have to admit.

At Pocono and Philly he has 3 drives on Sunday and 3 more drives on Tuesday for a total of 6 drives out of 28 races. Wednesday he is not listed on any at Philly. Throw in 6 drives at Balmoral Saturday and 6 more at Pocono tomorrow night and there you have it.

Once again, I only post the facts, they do not lie. Zeron in the US is an afterthought, the numbers do not lie and trainers and owners who refuse to list him agree. It show with his lack of drives.

[mrroyboy]

I never rebuffed your comments about Scott Zeron. I only rebuffed your insults to members of this forum who I highly respect. I agree Zeron has not been very good lately. I never thought he was hall of fame material unless he improves in the future.
And even if I disagreed with you, you are entitled to your opinion.
PEACE? :)

[The Inside Scoop]

I never rebuffed your comments about Scott Zeron. I only rebuffed your insults to members of this forum who I highly respect. I agree Zeron has not been very good lately. I never thought he was hall of fame material unless he improves in the future.
And even if I disagreed with you, you are entitled to your opinion.
PEACE? :)

Ok, peace. :)

I try to state only facts or make comments on what I watch on a daily basis. I have been around a long time and have saw many drivers come and go. The comments about Zeron being a future Hall Of Famer were so far off, they were laughable at best. At this time for what he has shown in the US and his lack of current success and drives, one would have to think a move back to Canada would be logical.

[mrroyboy]

I agree. But maybe he will learn and get better. Other drivers have.

[The Inside Scoop]

Some learn and do get better but its not like he is a rookie driver. He has been driving for 8 years and drove for 6 as a regular at WEG. Zeron had drives in almost every race WEG. To myself its been a big step backwards to where he was at when he drove at WEG, in regards to where he is today.

This year will be his 4th straight year his overall UDRS has dropped.
.328
.293
,276
.258
.240 (this year to date)

In 119 drives this year in Canada his drives earned $1.2 million and he batted .388, very nice numbers.

This year in 1640 drives in the USA he has earned $3.5 million and batted .230
Last year in the US he batted .154

From an onlooker he will drive 2 nights a week at The Meadowlands in the winter months and nowhere else in the US. I would think that the Yonkers winter meet is out of the equation where he was not well received and struggled. Does he try to commute to WEG as well during the winter and drive on Mon & Thurs and then drive Fri-Sat at the Meds? Tough commute in the winter months with the weather conditions.

One would think a better option would be to drive the 4 nights a week at WEG instead and if he wants to drive on WEG off days, he could drive at Flamboro Wednesdays and Sundays. I would think his pocketbook would be a lot better off with this option as he would get a lot more drives.

[mrroyboy]

He may be better off in Canada. Nobody can really count on Meadowlands for a lot of drives with their 2 day schedule.

[Sea Biscuit]

Here we go again with driver bashing.:ThmbDown:

Can you tell us who it was who said he was destined for the hall of fame?

[Sea Biscuit]

Woodbine Oct 18



2

7-Whataworkout 44.20 15.70 9.40 20504

3-Uncle Lasse 4.10 3.00 7916

6-Big Rich 6.40 3779



$2 DAILY DOUBLE (3-7) paid 149.70, pool 10181

$2 EXACTOR (7-3) paid 260.30, pool 24563

$1 SUPERFECTA (7-3-6-4) paid 1977.65, pool 12579

$2 TRIACTOR (7-3-6) paid 787.70, pool 25007


The driver of the 21-1 shot one beat drivers like Gingras, Sears, Ron Pierce
and Takter

7

1-Fool Me Once 3.60 3.00 2.40 27738

2-Nickle Bag 6.50 4.10 8429

5-Alexie Mattosie 3.60 4160



$2 EXACTOR (1-2) paid 16.90, pool 28104

$1 SUPERFECTA (1-2-5-7) paid 216.90, pool 19335

$2 TRIACTOR (1-2-5) paid 78.10, pool 27870

$1 PICK 3 (3-9-1) paid 484.40, pool 5110

$1 PICK 4 (3-3-9-1) paid 1054.50, pool 70424



Guess who was the driver who won the above 2 races

[mrroyboy]

No one expects perfection from drivers. Just professionalism.

[pandy]

Zeron got to 2,000 career wins at a younger age than any driver in history.

[The Inside Scoop]

Zeron got to 2,000 career wins at a younger age than any driver in history.

Is that a great accomplishment in this day and age where many drivers race at 2 tracks the same day?

He progressed a lot quicker than many other young drivers starting out but he also had a head start with his last name as his father has many connections which helped his son get more drives than he likely would have gotten, at a young age.

From what I have watched of him, since he has been in the states, he has struggled to the point (because of his non agressive style) where I autotoss him on anything he drives. He has been an afterthought to many trainers and owners when they are listing drivers.

Pandy, you are an astute guy who has been around a long time. Would you want Zeron driving your horse in a million dollar race today? Better yet, would he be someone you would want to have drive all your overnight stock? As a gambler, is he a guy you have no reservations making a large bet on?

As well if you wagered on Murrayfield in the last race Friday night would you have been happy with that drive? How does he not pull and follow the cover of the 2 is beyond me, especially when his horse looked live. If he would have read the program a little more he would have known the 2 was live in there to follow as the horse romped under wraps her last start at Flamboro in 55. How would you not want to follow her 2nd over in there? Worse case scenario is you follow her and if she is no good you go 3 deep around her. At the very least it puts you in position to try and win. Sitting 4th on the rail and staying in does not exactly qualify as having put your horse in a position to win I would think. Staying on the rail and follow a 45-1 in the 2 hole and a 25-1 shot on the front end, usually doesn't bode well when you sit. Its not rocket science here.

Watch it for yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWbBdCxyaDU&list=UU0RagnaQvFUM5BJUCIxWKow

I will bet Murrayfield her next start if Zeron is not driving as she was another horse that would have jogged had she been driven agressive which she should have been when she looked very live in the race. She was loaded with pace finishing in another drive where you would want to :bang: :bang:

[pandy]

I'm just saying, when a driver is the youngest ever (23) to get to 2,000 wins, that is quite an accomplishment. All other drivers that were precocious like that had great careers. Zeron is also the youngest driver to win the Little Brown Jug.

This year, Zeron has $4.7 million in earnings, 14th in the standings. Only 13 drivers in the sport are having better years than him, and all of them, except for Kakaley, have been in the business much longer than him. I find it hard to knock someone who's doing that good.

[badcompany]

I'm just saying, when a driver is the youngest ever (23) to get to 2,000 wins, that is quite an accomplishment. All other drivers that were precocious like that had great careers. Zeron is also the youngest driver to win the Little Brown Jug.

This year, Zeron has $4.7 million in earnings, 14th in the standings. Only 13 drivers in the sport are having better years than him, and all of them, except for Kakaley, have been in the business much longer than him. I find it hard to knock someone who's doing that good.

It depends.

How many other drivers, if given those same mounts, would have as many or more earnings?

[The Inside Scoop]

Pandy

We all have guys we like to wager on when making a large bet. Drivers we know will do what they need to do to try and give us a run for our money. Is Zeron someone you have no reservations on, when making a large wager?

Only Carlson, Filion, Dube, Marcus Miller and Stratton have a worse UDRS out of the top 30 money earners. I hardly think that any of those ones I listed are in peoples top drivers list. Just because one makes money doesn't not mean he is in the upper echelon of drivers in NA, in my opinion.

If you want further stats to back up what I have been saying about him being an afterthought, when betting. In the last 3 days he raced at Philly and Pocono his stats are as follows.

Oct 16 Philly
7 drives
2
5
6
6
8
3
4

Oct 15 Pocono
10 drives
3
7
9
8
6
4
4
9
8
8

Oct 12 Philly
3 drives
8
3
6

Totals
20 drives
one second and 3 thirds and a .108 UDRS

His UDRS is horrendous over the past month at Pocono and Philly so its not just a one or 2 day drought. He is out of favour with trainers and owners, with the exception of the Steve Cook, William Mullin and Tony Alagna stables and when Alagna disperese a bunch in Harrisburg and quits with his babies, where does that leave him for the winter months?

Hes .228 in the USA and .388 in Canada. Pretty much sums up what I have been saying.

[badcompany]

From what I've seen of him, he wouldn't be a top driver at Saratoga or Batavia. Forget about Yonkers. He'd never win a race, there.

[Sea Biscuit]

Pandy

We all have guys we like to wager on when making a large bet. Drivers we know will do what they need to do to try and give us a run for our money. Is Zeron someone you have no reservations on, when making a large wager?

Only Carlson, Filion, Dube, Marcus Miller and Stratton have a worse UDRS out of the top 30 money earners. I hardly think that any of those ones I listed are in peoples top drivers list. Just because one makes money doesn't not mean he is in the upper echelon of drivers in NA, in my opinion.

If you want further stats to back up what I have been saying about him being an afterthought, when betting. In the last 3 days he raced at Philly and Pocono his stats are as follows.

Oct 16 Philly
7 drives
2
5
6
6
8
3
4

Oct 15 Pocono
10 drives
3
7
9
8
6
4
4
9
8
8

Oct 12 Philly
3 drives
8
3
6

Totals
20 drives
one second and 3 thirds and a .108 UDRS

His UDRS is horrendous over the past month at Pocono and Philly so its not just a one or 2 day drought. He is out of favour with trainers and owners, with the exception of the Steve Cook, William Mullin and Tony Alagna stables and when Alagna disperese a bunch in Harrisburg and quits with his babies, where does that leave him for the winter months?

Hes .228 in the USA and .388 in Canada. Pretty much sums up what I have been saying.

Oct 15 Pocono

Race 1 #9 59-1

Race -2 #7 17-1

Race 4 #9 16.5-1

Race 5 #5 3.60-1

Race 6 #2 .80-1

Race 7 #7 23.80-1

Race 9 #8 12.90-1

Race 11 28.80-1

Race 12 #6 16.20-1

Race 13 #6 10.50-1

Oct 16 Philly

Race 4 #3 3.80-1

Race 5 #8 17.80-1

Race 6 #1 35.40-1

Race 7 #7 16.90-1

Race 8 #8 95.20-1

Race 9 #8 9.70-1

Race 10 #3 16.30-1

These were the odds Scott Zeron's horses went off at. I don't have the data for Philly Oct 12.

Anyone with half a brain could tell just by looking at the odds that those horses were no gos and had no chance in their respective races.

What a biased piece of reporting by the Scoopy guy.

[The Inside Scoop]

From what I've seen of him, he wouldn't be a top driver at Saratoga or Batavia. Forget about Yonkers. He'd never win a race, there.

I agree with you.

He proved he could not do at Yonkers when he drove there. He batted .180 there and finally when nobody would put him down because of his passive style, he no longer drove there. Trainers and owners need to have guys who will sit up on a horse and drive one agressive on a half. Not someone who tries to trip out every horse off someones helmet. That style doesn't fly at Yonkers.

[The Inside Scoop]

Is that a great accomplishment in this day and age where many drivers race at 2 tracks the same day?

He progressed a lot quicker than many other young drivers starting out but he also had a head start with his last name as his father has many connections which helped his son get more drives than he likely would have gotten, at a young age.

From what I have watched of him, since he has been in the states, he has struggled to the point (because of his non agressive style) where I autotoss him on anything he drives. He has been an afterthought to many trainers and owners when they are listing drivers.

Pandy, you are an astute guy who has been around a long time. Would you want Zeron driving your horse in a million dollar race today? Better yet, would he be someone you would want to have drive all your overnight stock? As a gambler, is he a guy you have no reservations making a large bet on?

As well if you wagered on Murrayfield in the last race Friday night would you have been happy with that drive? How does he not pull and follow the cover of the 2 is beyond me, especially when his horse looked live. If he would have read the program a little more he would have known the 2 was live in there to follow as the horse romped under wraps her last start at Flamboro in 55. How would you not want to follow her 2nd over in there? Worse case scenario is you follow her and if she is no good you go 3 deep around her. At the very least it puts you in position to try and win. Sitting 4th on the rail and staying in does not exactly qualify as having put your horse in a position to win I would think. Staying on the rail and follow a 45-1 in the 2 hole and a 25-1 shot on the front end, usually doesn't bode well when you sit. Its not rocket science here.

Watch it for yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWbBdCxyaDU&list=UU0RagnaQvFUM5BJUCIxWKow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWbBdCxyaDU&list=UU0RagnaQvFUM5BJUCIxWKow)

I will bet Murrayfield her next start if Zeron is not driving as she was another horse that would have jogged had she been driven agressive which she should have been when she looked very live in the race. She was loaded with pace finishing in another drive where you would want to :bang: :bang:

Murrayfield $10 winner tonight with Doug McNair up. Thank you very much !!

[Sea Biscuit]

[/size][/b]

Murrayfield $10 winner tonight with Doug McNair up. Thank you very much !!

Good call on Murrayfield Scoop.

Congrats:ThmbUp:

[badcompany]

You were right, Scoop. That drive was horrible. The announcer said the winner had the dream trip of the night. Had Zeron pulled, that would've been his trip.

[The Inside Scoop]

You were right, Scoop. That drive was horrible. The announcer said the winner had the dream trip of the night. Had Zeron pulled, that would've been his trip.

As soon as I saw McNair listed on her this week, I was all over her. I knew with him driving instead of Zeron, she would be driven more aggressive and he would try and leave with her. Trip worked out good and he got the job done with a heady drive that ended up tripping her out perfectly. I would not have bet a cent on her if Zeron was back on her, as I do not bet him on anything, ever.

I am thankful for the driver change as I did very well on her.

[The Inside Scoop]

I figure its about time for another update on Zeron and his lack of production at any tracks in the USA.

Once again the facts do not lie and I tell it like it is.

141 starts (since Oct 2 @ USA tracks)
9 wins
5 seconds
20 thirds
UDRS .130

He is an AUTOTOSS for any true handicapper who wagers real money. He has one win since Nov 8 and only around 20 drives in a week. That tells you noone wants to use him.

Over the next 5 cards at Philly and Pocono he has no drives other then being listed on one also eligible. He is not driving at Woodbine on Monday so unless hes taking a holiday it looks like his career in the USA now consists of 2 days a week at the Meadowlands.

The USA experiment has been a major bust, owners and trainers see he just doesnt have what it takes to be amongst the top guys. To put it mildly, he is lost out there with his indecisive style and lack of aggression. The way he drives in the USA he could not be a top 5 driver if he drove at Flamboro and that folks is telling it like it is.

[ALostTexan]

Come on, I had to scroll down 3 pages to find this thread after the TVG Trot last night?

[The Inside Scoop]

Come on, I had to scroll down 3 pages to find this thread after the TVG Trot last night?

And your point is? Wait let me guess, Zeron won with Intimidate, yay. Keep betting them .130 guys and see how much you make a year. I'll come visit you in your cardboard box under the freeway.

[pandy]

Pandy

We all have guys we like to wager on when making a large bet. Drivers we know will do what they need to do to try and give us a run for our money. Is Zeron someone you have no reservations on, when making a large wager?

Only Carlson, Filion, Dube, Marcus Miller and Stratton have a worse UDRS out of the top 30 money earners. I hardly think that any of those ones I listed are in peoples top drivers list. Just because one makes money doesn't not mean he is in the upper echelon of drivers in NA, in my opinion.


And your point is? Wait let me guess, Zeron won with Intimidate, yay. Keep betting them .130 guys and see how much you make a year. I'll come visit you in your cardboard box under the freeway.

I think you're over stating this in several ways. First of all, Zeron won 3 races at the Meadowlands over the weekend including the $500,000 TVG trot, so I don't think he is crying in his soup today. He had a good 2013 at the Meadowlands and I expect that he'll have a good 2014 there.

As far as UDRS, from a bettor's perspective, I don't see this as a valuable handicapping asset. The drivers you mentioned, Filion I don't follow because he's in Canada, but I would bet the other guys without giving it a second thought if the price on their horse was good value. I really like Eric Carlson, a lot. And, I hit Marcus Miller on a few good longshots this year. I've hit Dube on a slew longshots in the past. None of these drivers owe me money.

From a betting perspective, I can certainly understand not betting a driver when he's in a slump. All drivers and trainers get into slumps, and I think you can make a case that it's wise to avoid them during this time. Some slumps are predictable, for instance, a driver comes off an injury, or has problems in his personal life.

But, generally speaking, the only smart thing to do with drivers is to look for key driver changes, which is one of the top two or three handicapping angles. Otherwise it's best to handicap the horses, not the drivers, and look for overlays, and the lower percentage drivers are often the best value.

At the Meadowlands last year my most productive drivers were Jimmy Marohn, Jr., Marcus Miller, and Andrew McCarthy. Based on your criteria, I guess you wouldn't bet these drivers, but that's where I made my most profitable bets.

[The Inside Scoop]

The drivers you just metnioned are all on my list of guys not to bet. Hats off to you if you cashed a few tickets on them. When I am betting on a race, I want to have a guy I believe is capable of putting a horse in the right spot, whether it be on the front or knowing who he wants to follow.

To me, the best drivers are the guys who can read a program. Yannick is one. One only needed to read his tweets to see that.

To each his own is the old saying as far as who you like wagering on.

[pandy]

I don't base my personal driver rankings just on the usual criteria. I look for drivers that win with horses that do not have good speed figures, or do not look like solid contenders on paper. Any driver can win a high percentage with the Burke horses. At the Meadowlands this year, Andrew McCarthy did very well and rarely had a solid contender. It's a lot harder to win with one of the slowest horses in the race than with the fastest horse in the race. It takes talent.

[The Inside Scoop]

I don't base my personal driver rankings just on the usual criteria. I look for drivers that win with horses that do not have good speed figures, or do not look like solid contenders on paper. Any driver can win a high percentage with the Burke horses. At the Meadowlands this year, Andrew McCarthy did very well and rarely had a solid contender. It's a lot harder to win with one of the slowest horses in the race than with the fastest horse in the race. It takes talent.

Pandy

If you think that Yannick can only win with Burke horses thats comical. I will take Yannick first time drive on a horse (other then Burkes) any day of the week. I have cashed many nice tickets this year off of that angle, especially at Mohawk when he comes up to drive. There is not a driver around that can get one off the gait like he can. He gets horses ready after the post parade by getting them on the bit if they are the lazy type. Many a lazy horse that showed no gait speed has rocketed to the front and won when Yannick jumps on.

[pandy]

Pandy

If you think that Yannick can only win with Burke horses thats comical. I will take Yannick first time drive on a horse (other then Burkes) any day of the week. I have cashed many nice tickets this year off of that angle, especially at Mohawk when he comes up to drive. There is not a driver around that can get one off the gait like he can. He gets horses ready after the post parade by getting them on the bit if they are the lazy type. Many a lazy horse that showed no gait speed has rocketed to the front and won when Yannick jumps on.


Oh, no, I have great respect for Yannick. In fact, years ago when he first started driving at the Meadowlands I wrote in my column many times that he was the best driver of trotters in the sport and lethal first time on a trotter. He wins with many poorly gaited trotters.

The difference between the top drivers and many other successful drivers is not as much as most people think. A lot of it is politics, personality, luck. Driving horses is not like baseball. In baseball, there are no :250 hitters that are capable of hitting :300. In harness racing, there are drivers who would immediately become superstars if someone like Burke decided to use them, or if they got one lucky break. Hall of Fame jockey Jerry Bailey has said that his career took off after he got the ride on the great Cigar. Anyone could have won with Cigar, but that put Bailey in the public spotlight and trainers started to use him more.

People don't understand that some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living. When I interviewed McCarthy last year, he told me that he goes home (to Australia) every December and he used to stay there until March. Last year he came back early to drive at the Meadowlands. He also told me that he will rarely drive double headers because he wants to have a life and he wants to spend time with his family.

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen. Horses literally went a second to two seconds faster for him and he didn't even use the whip heavily. Sports Illustrated did a big article with him. I did a two part, long interview with him which was published in Sports Eye. We tried to figure out why horses went faster for him. He got horses out of the gate better than Yannick.

Walter Case, Jr. was also better than any driver driving today, and also a master gate driver. Herve Filion, in his prime, was also better than any of the current drivers. These guys consistently won easily with horses that looked horrible on paper.

[The Inside Scoop]

I respectfully disagree with the comment that many drivers could become a top dog if they attached themselves to a top barn. Talents like Gingras, Miller, Pierce, Brennan, Sears and Campbell all have rose to the top at The Meadowlands, driving for a variety of trainers. When you consistently win races and also put horses in position to win, owners and trainers notice this and want to use guys like that.

[pandy]

I wouldn't knock any of them, they earned it. But, there is quite a bit of luck involved. As I said, it's not like other sports. These drivers need the horses.

[cecil127]

some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living

luc ouellette :ThmbUp:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Oh, no, I have great respect for Yannick. In fact, years ago when he first started driving at the Meadowlands I wrote in my column many times that he was the best driver of trotters in the sport and lethal first time on a trotter. He wins with many poorly gaited trotters.

The difference between the top drivers and many other successful drivers is not as much as most people think. A lot of it is politics, personality, luck. Driving horses is not like baseball. In baseball, there are no :250 hitters that are capable of hitting :300. In harness racing, there are drivers who would immediately become superstars if someone like Burke decided to use them, or if they got one lucky break. Hall of Fame jockey Jerry Bailey has said that his career took off after he got the ride on the great Cigar. Anyone could have won with Cigar, but that put Bailey in the public spotlight and trainers started to use him more.

People don't understand that some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living. When I interviewed McCarthy last year, he told me that he goes home (to Australia) every December and he used to stay there until March. Last year he came back early to drive at the Meadowlands. He also told me that he will rarely drive double headers because he wants to have a life and he wants to spend time with his family.

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen. Horses literally went a second to two seconds faster for him and he didn't even use the whip heavily. Sports Illustrated did a big article with him. I did a two part, long interview with him which was published in Sports Eye. We tried to figure out why horses went faster for him. He got horses out of the gate better than Yannick.

Walter Case, Jr. was also better than any driver driving today, and also a master gate driver. Herve Filion, in his prime, was also better than any of the current drivers. These guys consistently won easily with horses that looked horrible on paper.

There was one that probably would have become the best driver of all time but alas he was taken all too soon. Peter Haughton, from the time he first got in the bike it was apparent that he was born to drive. Here is an interview of him (think it was at Brandywine) a year before of his passing. Think he was 25 when he left us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlt6QU7xcwI

[pandy]

William Haughton was one of the best I've ever seen, very smart strategist.
It's too bad we never got to see more of Peter.

[arno]

Nice to see Sonsam mentioned by Peter. Sholty's brush with Sonsam in the Meadowlands Pace in 1979 is still the greatest move I have ever seen in harness racing. Similar to Valenzuela's move with Arazi in the Breeder's Cup Juvenile 10 years after Sonsam.

I wonder how the other drivers felt when Peter said he had to start from the bottom? He was driving the likes of Armbro Omaha at 20. I don't think Carmine was driving that kind of stock at Freehold when he was 20 nor Filion in Quebec or Insko in Illinois.

We will never know how good Peter would have been but I could ask the same question about Shelly Goudreau who I thought was just as good if not better than Peter.

[pandy]

I agree about Sonsam. That was the most exciting move I've ever seen in a major harness racing stakes race, and it was rare for the Meadowlands since most of the drivers waited until the stretch.

[Sea Biscuit]

Nice to see Sonsam mentioned by Peter. Sholty's brush with Sonsam in the Meadowlands Pace in 1979 is still the greatest move I have ever seen in harness racing. Similar to Valenzuela's move with Arazi in the Breeder's Cup Juvenile 10 years after Sonsam.



Here is the video replay of Sonsam winning the '79 Meds pace

Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldwDLKrEnFc

[Sea Biscuit]

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen.

Here is a nice article on the man they loved to hate: Carmine Abbatello

http://www.si.com/vault/1981/08/10/825841/the-man-they-love-to-hate-his-fellow-harness-drivers-arent-exactly-fond-of-abrasive-carmine-abbatiello-but-he-really-couldnt-care-less-hes-already-won-29-million-in-that-sulky

[pandy]

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.

[The Inside Scoop]

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.

I do not recall ever saying I would not bet Stratton. My only comment regarding him was his UDRS as one of the top 30 drivers and stating that he would not be on anyones top drivers lists when talking the upper echelon. It was Carlson I said I would not bet. I actually like betting Stratton when hes on something that I think is live. Yonkers is a track that does not get much of my wagering dollar unless I have a very strong opinion on a horse that has some value.

[pandy]

I just interviewed Carlson today. He is the 15th leading driver in North America with over 5 million in earnings (4th at Yonkers behind Bartlett, Sears, Brennan). I don't see what UDRS has to do with anything, unless you bet to show.

[baconswitchfarm]

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.


Stratton got to drive a couple gassed up Allard pieces when convicted race fixer Brad Forward didn't drive.

[pandy]

I don't know much about Brad Forward. Where is he from?

[MutuelClerk]

We will never know how good Peter would have been but I could ask the same question about Shelly Goudreau who I thought was just as good if not better than Peter.

Loved Shelly. At Wolverine back in the day he arrives in his silver corvette. He was driving Grover C that night against Rambling Willie. I wished him luck told him Grover C was one of my favorite horses. He told me I like our chances tonight. That night Grover C wins and was DQ'ed. Rambling Willie was put up. Saw Shelly the following Monday, he comes over to me and says they f-ing robbed us. He would have been one of the best ever and died so tragically young. Shame. Thanks for the memories Arno....

[The Inside Scoop]

Forward toiled in Windsor and Western Fair for years. He was near the top of the standing while driving for guys like Chris Haskell and John Janes when they were on a roll. Was implicated in race fixing by the ORC while he was a driver in Windsor (alleged betting ring), then was exonerated when they dropped the case against him and a few others.

http://www.ontarioracingcommission.ca/uploadedFiles/Notice%20to%20Industry%20Three%20Licensees%20Suspe nded.pdf


http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=02cb8830-486d-4963-8c63-81c884324aa9


He has not driven much the last few years since then. I can see why after what the ORC put him and his family through.

Unless he becomes Allards first call on everything, I think he will be invisible as a driver in the USA as he is far from what I would call an upper echelon type driver (sorry east coast Canada fanclub). Driving against the likes of Donnie Rankin, Gene Peroski, Mark Williams, Dan Johnson and company does not exactly make you a star in my book. I would call him a decent type driver as long as hes racing on a B circuit. He would do well at tracks like Freehold or Monticello if could grab some business.

Pandy

I referenced the UDRS when I was referring to some of the top 30 money winning drivers having a low UDRS. I certainly am not a show bettor.

[cmp92]

I do not recall ever saying I would not bet Stratton. My only comment regarding him was his UDRS as one of the top 30 drivers and stating that he would not be on anyones top drivers lists when talking the upper echelon. It was Carlson I said I would not bet. I actually like betting Stratton when hes on something that I think is live. Yonkers is a track that does not get much of my wagering dollar unless I have a very strong opinion on a horse that has some value.
Just my two cents...but I think Jordan Stratton could be one of the more underrated drivers in the game. He has to drive against Bartlett, Sears, and Brennan five nights a week on a half mile track and he holds his own. I believe him and Bartlett are close friends? I think you can find some nice prices on Mr. Stratton on many nights...

[baconswitchfarm]

Forward toiled in Windsor and Western Fair for years. He was near the top of the standing while driving for guys like Chris Haskell and John Janes when they were on a roll. Was implicated in race fixing by the ORC while he was a driver in Windsor (alleged betting ring), then was exonerated when they dropped the case against him and a few others.

http://www.ontarioracingcommission.ca/uploadedFiles/Notice%20to%20Industry%20Three%20Licensees%20Suspe nded.pdf


http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=02cb8830-486d-4963-8c63-81c884324aa9


He has not driven much the last few years since then. I can see why after what the ORC put him and his family through.

Unless he becomes Allards first call on everything, I think he will be invisible as a driver in the USA as he is far from what I would call an upper echelon type driver (sorry east coast Canada fanclub). Driving against the likes of Donnie Rankin, Gene Peroski, Mark Williams, Dan Johnson and company does not exactly make you a star in my book. I would call him a decent type driver as long as hes racing on a B circuit. He would do well at tracks like Freehold or Monticello if could grab some business.

Pandy

I referenced the UDRS when I was referring to some of the top 30 money winning drivers having a low UDRS. I certainly am not a show bettor.


I am not sure how Brad even got his suspension lifted. You will notice his fine was 5k while the other two were given 100k for the same thing. He agreed to testify against the other two in court and basically admitted guilt. Once they couldn't criminally charge the other two they had their suspension lifted. Somehow he weaseled in on that. I know among horsemen he has very few people who don't have an opinion on him up there. Yonkers has enough problems already. The last thing they need is one more questionable driver.