What is the ground loss per turn in harness racing

[Poindexter]

I believe with the flats they say that it is typically about a length per path, so a horse that goes 3 wide n entire turn would be running 2 extra lengths and horse who goes 5 wide entire turn 4 extra lengths....How about with Harness Racing? You have 1/2 mile, 5/8ths, 7/8ths(which I assume are about the same as 1 mile tracks) and of course mile tracks. I understand typically that the faster a horse is going the more punishing the ground loss will be etc....I remember(perhaps incorrectly) many years ago reading that the ground loss was 1 length per turn per path at a mile track, I think, 1.5 lengths per path on a 5/8ths track and 2 lengths per path on a 1/2 mile track. Anybody know roughly if this is correct or I am using incorrect numbers. I saw an article by Pandy indicating that a horse loses about 2 lengths per turn on a mile track, which would mean the numbers I am using are way off.

Right now I am playing 1 mile tracks, so it is not a huge deal, but as I start analyzing races from smaller tracks, I need to know what the correct numbers are. Anybody know?

[Sea Biscuit]

I believe with the flats they say that it is typically about a length per path, so a horse that goes 3 wide n entire turn would be running 2 extra lengths and horse who goes 5 wide entire turn 4 extra lengths....How about with Harness Racing? You have 1/2 mile, 5/8ths, 7/8ths(which I assume are about the same as 1 mile tracks) and of course mile tracks. I understand typically that the faster a horse is going the more punishing the ground loss will be etc....I remember(perhaps incorrectly) many years ago reading that the ground loss was 1 length per turn per path at a mile track, I think, 1.5 lengths per path on a 5/8ths track and 2 lengths per path on a 1/2 mile track. Anybody know roughly if this is correct or I am using incorrect numbers. I saw an article by Pandy indicating that a horse loses about 2 lengths per turn on a mile track, which would mean the numbers I am using are way off.

Right now I am playing 1 mile tracks, so it is not a huge deal, but as I start analyzing races from smaller tracks, I need to know what the correct numbers are. Anybody know?

There was a time at WEG harness tracks they had Trakus which gave out the exact distance covered by each individual horse and this info was given in the program itself. They fell on hard times and they discontinued Trakus at their harness track.

Here are some examples from some of the 2012 results sheets which I have saved on my computer. These examples are for Woodbine.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/trakus2_zps81facb0e.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/trakus2_zps81facb0e.png.html)

Right now there is only one harness track in NA that is using Trakus and that is Hoosier Park. Perhaps you should check their programs out.

I hope this helps.

[Ray2000]

The extra distance traveled depends on the difference in radii of the paths. If the outside horse is 10 feet 'over' from the inside horse then the extra distance for a full circle is Pi x 2 x (R1 - R2) or 3.14 x 20 = 62.8 feet,

For a 180° turn the distance would be half that or 31.4 feet about 3 lengths.

Mile tracks have 2 turns except Colonial?, 5/8's are 3 turn tracks 1/2 mile, 4 turns.

It does not depend on how tight the turn is, just the separation in the paths.

[Poindexter]

The extra distance traveled depends on the difference in radii of the paths. If the outside horse is 10 feet 'over' from the inside horse then the extra distance for a full circle is Pi x 2 x (R1 - R2) or 3.14 x 20 = 62.8 feet,

For a 180° turn the distance would be half that or 31.4 feet about 3 lengths.

Mile tracks have 2 turns except Colonial?, 5/8's are 3 turn tracks 1/2 mile, 4 turns.

It does not depend on how tight the turn is, just the separation in the paths.

Ray, thanks for your response.

Geometry was never my thing. Sounds like you are saying that the ground loss on a turn is the same whether at a half mile track, a 5/8 th track and a mile tacks(just more turns on the smaller tracks). Am I understanding correctly? The width of the sulky is about 4.3 feet, so my guess is that a horse parked is racing 5 feet wide and not 10 feet wide. So a horse 2 path would lose 1.5 lengths per 180 degrees or half the oval whatever size it is. So based off of this my conclusion is that the ground loss per turn not matter what size the track is about 1.5 lengths per path. Does that sound about right?

Seabiscuit, thanks, one of these days I will give trakus a lookover, but then again I would have to take time away from handicapping and betting. Now why would I want to do that :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ray2000]

Poindexter

Everything you've written is correct. The only thing we differ on is the separation. The example I gave used 10' but I've always estimated the driver's 'helmet to helmet' distance to be about 8' in a turn if they're dead heated. (It would be 4 feet with wheels locked :))

8 feet would calculate to ~25 feet extra distance if parked out for the full 180° turn, slightly less than 3 lengths.

Since it's a rough estimate anyway, I have the robot programmed to subtract 3/5 of a second for each "Wide" symbol (°) found in the ppline, from the horse's Final time.

[mrroyboy]

3 lengths at a 1/2 to 5/8 and about 2 lengths at a mile. Rough estimate.
So a horse parked out 1/2 mile" two park out symbols" who raced in 1:53 at Yonkers should be adjusted to about 1:51.4 to 1:52. If all horses race at the same track this is as good as any method. Thanks Ray.