Beheading on American soil

[so.cal.fan]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-woman-beheaded-oklahoma-workplace-25778135 :eek:

[DJofSD]

asked the FBI to aid in the investigation and look into the man's background because of the nature of the attack, Lewis said.

That, along with a few details missing from the story makes my shields go up.

Or, IOW, is this going to be characterized by the media as just another workplace violence incident?

[DJofSD]

BBC report with some additional details. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29381980)

[classhandicapper]

I saw one report that suggested he had been trying to convert co-workers to Islam recently. If true, it doesn't matter, I'm sure the focus of the media and administration will be on the fact that this guy was crazy and not the fact that he was Muslim and used a knife (instead of a gun) and that it was a GUN that prevented it from getting way out of hand.

http://kfor.com/2014/09/25/reports-police-respond-to-possible-shooting-near-moore-grocery-store/

[TJDave]

How do you guys sleep at night? :rolleyes:

[Show Me the Wire]

How do you guys sleep at night? :rolleyes:

In the same vein as Israelis. Oops the Israelis' try to make sure the muslims aren't every where. :rolleyes:

[ArlJim78]

Would have killed at least one more but for someone on hand who was armed that put a couple bullets in him.

Muslim but not terrorism they say. Just a random workplace beheading.

[classhandicapper]

How do you guys sleep at night? :rolleyes:


I'm a big believer in judging people as individuals, but lacking such information, I believe in judging people based on any stats available to me when it comes to my own personal well being. That may not be a politically fashionable thing to believe (or at least to say publicly), but I am close to 100% sure it improves my odds of a favorable outcome. So screw the rest of society,

I would have no issue whatsoever with any Muslim I came to know well and judged positively. I've already demonstrate that in my life.

However, my observations of the Middle East, Muslim immigrants into Europe, terrorist acts in the US so far per capita, and other factors, all suggest that the probability of bad outcomes in the US will be higher if we let a few million more of them in this country. So I vote we deal with reality instead of idealistic delusion and close the border until such time that the world and the stats change.

[cj's dad]

This happened in Moore, Ok.- that's where cj lives.

[TJDave]

However, my observations of the Middle East, Muslim immigrants into Europe, terrorist acts in the US so far per capita, and other factors, all suggest that the probability of bad outcomes in the US will be higher if we let a few million more of them in this country. So I vote we deal with reality instead of idealistic delusion and close the border until such time that the world and the stats change.

Islam is a religion. What if this Muslim came from here? Would you also restrict their ability to proselytize?

[Greyfox]

Islam is a religion. What if this Muslim came from here? Would you also restrict their ability to proselytize?

He quite likely did come from the U.S., but that doesn't matter.
Obama tried to convince the United Nations the other day to put a ban on potential terrorists travelling to Syria to join ISIS and other countries to join other groups. .
I couldn't disagree more.
The more of these Islamic nutcases we can send to Syria, Libya, or elsewhere, the better. Let them die over their rather than murder over here....and if we know that they've been in a terrorist group overseas, don't let them back in ever.

[JustRalph]

Islam is a religion. What if this Muslim came from here? Would you also restrict their ability to proselytize?


If a foreign born Muslim does this on American soil, things will change. This idiot in Oklahoma is a copycat

[HUSKER55]

This thing is going to get way worse until it is dealt with. The Muslim people will not be happy unless there are only Muslims.

There is only one way to change that.

[Grits]

This happened in Moore, Ok.- that's where cj lives.

What makes one scared, learning this particular incident--is this person could live anywhere. He could live next door to me, to you, to any one of us. Any region of the country. I'm tired of this violence, of the mindset of these lunatics.

Cjd, I can't help but hope, committing such a horrible act, he'll never see the light of day again. I hope he's put in a hole in solitary confinement, or better yet, put to death. He's an animal.. No, he's worse. Animals are better.

[Hank]

If we just keep bombing them and killing their kids eventually they will learn to like it,give it time.If they don't, they must all be killed its the only Christian thing to do.Get the smallpox blankets ready.

[Marshall Bennett]

This thing is going to get way worse until it is dealt with. The Muslim people will not be happy unless there are only Muslims.

There is only one way to change that.
I lived in the middle east a number of years. I can promise you they all don't share your sentiment. Radical fundamentalist of Islam are a danger no doubt, but so was the Nazi Party. Once they began war and their military aggression kicked in, they lost support of most Germans. Your typical Muslim is not supportive of ISIS. The Koran is sacred to Muslims and ISIS for the most part neglects it's principles. A devout Muslim would see their conduct as evil.
Islamic countries are for the most part poor. Whether their governments deal in wealth or not, it seldom reaches the people. They may be jealous of western cultures for this reason, but it has absolutely nothing to do with their religion. They're victims of the fanatical extremist that bully them, but they certainly are not all vicious human beings.

[Marshall Bennett]

If we just keep bombing them and killing their kids eventually they will learn to like it,give it time.If they don't, they must all be killed its the only Christian thing to do.Get the smallpox blankets ready.
The culprits must be weeded out and removed. You don't destroy an entire slice of civilization for the actions of a few. That would be barbaric and make us no better than the enemy. It may seem like an easy solution and a final one, but it's not an option.
If your post, however, was one of sarcasm, you can disregard mine. :)

[Show Me the Wire]

Islam is a religion. What if this Muslim came from here? Would you also restrict their ability to proselytize?


A sensible question. Would you be in favor of restricting their ability to proselytize if they proseltized by giving you a choice between conversion or death?

As an aside, a reason giving by atheist objecting to religion is religion impacts the quality of the atheists life. You gave an objection grounded in this reasoning about not being able to purchase alcohol on Sunday in certain regions of the U.S.

As an atheist your reasoning is very applicable to muslem proselytizing. You wouldn't be able to buy alcohol on any day of the week. Also, it would be acceptable under Islam to submit gay people, as well as other infidels, i.e. atheists, to physical punishment ranging from lashing to imprisonment and to death. I certainly believe such restrictions on life choices definatly impact an atheist's quality of life.

In my concern for atheists, gays, and consumers of alcohol I would limit the ability of muslems to proselytize.

A better question is would an atheist be in favor of unrestricted proselytizing by muslims their religion.

[fast4522]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

[Marshall Bennett]

Bush had it right. Yeah, I miss him. :cool:

[DJofSD]

http://gotnews.com/muslim-arrested-ferguson-threatened-behead-critics-like-bitch/

Agitator Umar Lee was arrested last night during the Ferguson protests.

Lee, who is a Muslim radical, wrote the following to a critic in 2010: “i could cut your neck with the sword of islam, and watch you squeal like a bitch like daniel pearl.”

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'd be willing to bet that there will be an increase in these types of "lone wolf", unrelated "crimes" with but one not-so-subtle similarity in all of the news clippings. A call to arms in our house as we knock at theirs.

[Tom]

How do you guys sleep at night? :rolleyes:

With one eye open.
If muslims don't like what we say about them.......GOOD!
Stop beheading people or stop those who do.

But enough with the freaking apologies to the "good" muslims already.
It is the equivalent of "not that there's anything wrong with it.

This embarrassment Obama is going out of his way to thank the handful of mulsim nations for the feeble contributions they are giving to fight ISIS when in fact they should be on their knees kissing OUR FEET for stepping up to mop up their mess over there. No thanks are needed when you are only doing what is your responsibility.

[DJofSD]

Who said there were good muslims?

[JustRalph]

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/09/181797-8-chilling-facts-oklahoma-beheading-suspects-alleged-facebook-page-reveal-true-motives/

interesting fellow

[DJofSD]

Eric's first case?

[fast4522]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/09/26/OKC-Killer-Linked-Through-Imam-to-Al-Qaeda-Leader-Awlaki

[classhandicapper]

Islam is a religion. What if this Muslim came from here? Would you also restrict their ability to proselytize?

I have no problem with anyone practicing and preaching any religion as long as it doesn't infringe on me.

The problem is that Islam is not a religion in the traditional sense. It's an entirely different system of life including different economics. There is significant evidence from Europe and elsewhere that many Muslim immigrants do not want to assimilate into the way of life there. They want to remain separate and make their own rules and laws or change the society for all. So inviting more of them here is to invite political, social, and economic conflict.

Also, x% (whatever x is is way too high for comfort) are very extreme in their beliefs and will use violence and terrorism to achieve their political goals. So IMO it is borderline insane to open the borders to them legally and to not protect our borders from illegals now.

Without vetting every singe one of them (which can't be done) if you let in a million, you are letting in x% that could easily do serious damage. IMO, x% is absolutely intolerable because all it takes is 1 extremist to do serious damage. We already have evidence of that in the WTC bombing in 93, 9/11, and the marathon bombing.

We already know the future if we continue on this path. To continue down it would be the worst sort of delusional idealism imaginable because it doesn't just involve political strife, bad policy, and poor economics like the arguments between the liberals and conservatives. It involves death and destruction.

[Robert Goren]

Bush had it right. Yeah, I miss him. :cool:Which part do you missed the most? The funerals for our brave servicemen and women? or the bailout of the banks?

[TJDave]

I have no problem with anyone practicing and preaching any religion as long as it doesn't infringe on me.


Me neither... Except I have yet to find any western religion that doesn't. Some are more benign that others but they all stick their noses where they don't belong. I would favor the public practice of all religion be banned and proselytizing outlawed. Failing that, all organized religions should be required to post a bond large enough to cover any damage done by their clergy and/or adherents. It's time religion be held liable for its BS.

[Greyfox]

The Koran is sacred to Muslims and ISIS for the most part neglects it's principles. A devout Muslim would see their conduct as evil.
.

You are right, most Muslims find what ISIS is doing is distasteful.

Having said that, a recent poll in Arabia showed that 92 % of those polled agreed that what ISIS is doing is well within the tenets of the Qur'an.
ISIS is in fact following the principles outlined in the Qur'an to a tee.

[fast4522]

Which part do you missed the most? The funerals for our brave servicemen and women? or the bailout of the banks?

RG,

Chances are we will be at war during your funeral services, it is mans curse. This country was not built on the backs of cowards, our best and brave are 100% professional volunteer fighting armed forces. There are many proud Americans who have served right here who might think that you mock all with your comments.

[Robert Goren]

RG,

Chances are we will be at war during your funeral services, it is mans curse. This country was not built on the backs of cowards, our best and brave are 100% professional volunteer fighting armed forces. There are many proud Americans who have served right here who might think that you mock all with your comments.I do not mock our brave soldiers, but I no problem mocking our leaders who treat them like chess pieces. Our soldiers should not pawns to sacrificed for petty politics or to push their crazy views of the world.

[PaceAdvantage]

I do not mock our brave soldiers, but I no problem mocking our leaders who treat them like chess pieces. Our soldiers should not pawns to sacrificed for petty politics or to push their crazy views of the world.When has this EVER NOT been the case?

You will find, IN EVERY ARMED CONFLICT, those who think it is NOT worth it. Even World War II.

Who gets to decide? We EACH have our own opinions...and that's about it.

But make no mistake. In EVERY war, soldiers ARE pawns...

[Marshall Bennett]

Liberals don't believe in war and sacrifice. They believe freedom is a gift handed down through evolution, and most of all....good luck.

[BlueShoe]

Islam is a religion.
It is not. Islam is a complex political, social, and economic system in which religion plays a major, but not only, part. The sooner the West realizes and treats it as such, the better able to deal with it and thwart it's goals.

[Tom]

I do not mock our brave soldiers, but I no problem mocking our leaders who treat them like chess pieces. Our soldiers should not pawns to sacrificed for petty politics or to push their crazy views of the world.
You describe Obama perfectly.
Yet you hardly ever complain about it.

[Marshall Bennett]

You are right, most Muslims find what ISIS is doing is distasteful.

Having said that, a recent poll in Arabia showed that 92 % of those polled agreed that what ISIS is doing is well within the tenets of the Qur'an.
ISIS is in fact following the principles outlined in the Qur'an to a tee.
Koran or Qur'an, both or correct and acceptable. Qur'an is a more literal Arabic translation, but most Americans if they follow Islam to any degree know it as the Koran. You could have gone the whole nine yards and typed it in Arabic scripture, then none of us would understand it. ;)
I've read much of the Koran through translation, and while a bit of the emotional core gets distorted (as with the Bible), the real definition is still preserved.
I stand by my original post 100%. I have no idea where your information on polls and such come from. I would depend on polls conducted in the Arab world about as much as I depend on their leaders that probably govern them. ;)

[Robert Goren]

Liberals don't believe in war and sacrifice. They believe freedom is a gift handed down through evolution, and most of all....good luck.Not true. We just don't believe in sacrifice that does not advance a cause. A cause, no matter how noble, is not worth one human life if that loss of life does not advance the cause. I be in favor of sending troops into Iraq, if I thought we had a chance of success. As I read the tea leaves of history, it is highly unlikely that they would make things better there. I wish it was not so. I am afraid the best we can do right now is drop bombs. The military has no idea on how to fight a war with terrorists. That was perhaps GWB greatest contribution is we learned that fighting them like we did the NAZIs does not work nor does the failed tactics that we used Vietnam work either. It is up to the leaders of our military to come up with new tactics. I haven't seen any evidence that they have. God, I wish they would because if they don't, this country is in a world of hurt.

[Robert Goren]

You describe Obama perfectly.
Yet you hardly ever complain about it.Obama has been about as restrained as any president when it come to sending soldiers into battle. Isn't that one of the biggest complainants that the right has with him? Don't they think he needs to send more troops into battle?

[Tom]

I would not suggest ANY soldier go to war under this POS CNC,
You don't follow Porky Pig into war.

[classhandicapper]

Me neither... Except I have yet to find any western religion that doesn't. Some are more benign that others but they all stick their noses where they don't belong. I would favor the public practice of all religion be banned and proselytizing outlawed. Failing that, all organized religions should be required to post a bond large enough to cover any damage done by their clergy and/or adherents. It's time religion be held liable for its BS.

I understand where you are coming from, but I can't fully agree.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with preaching your values and trying to explain why the world would be a better place if we moved away from moral relativism and more towards the values historically associated with the major religions. I do it all the time but from a statistical point of view instead of religious point of view.

The problems occur when people try to impose their values (including values that are opposite to religious beliefs) on everyone else.

The bigger problems occur when people are willing to get violent over it.

We already have plenty of the first problem (on both sides). I hate it, but can live with it. I just get grumpy on message boards in response. :lol:

I can't live with violence. Fortunately there's not so much of that.

I think it's sensible to cast aside any idealistic visions on immigration and work with the stats to ensure it stays that way and that we can reduce violence further.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by TJDave
Me neither... Except I have yet to find any western religion that doesn't. Some are more benign that others but they all stick their noses where they don't belong. I would favor the public practice of all religion be banned and proselytizing outlawed. Failing that, all organized religions should be required to post a bond large enough to cover any damage done by their clergy and/or adherents. It's time religion be held liable for its BS.

So when do you move back to England?
Because you want to destroy one of the basic reasons we are here today.
In the hierarchy of things, many, many people put religion ahead of citizenship.
Rightly so.

[TJDave]

In the hierarchy of things, many, many people put religion ahead of citizenship.

Putting fantasy ahead of fact is stupidity.

[johnhannibalsmith]

A group of disjointed, disagreeable colonies fending off the greatest armed forces at the time to gain independence and rule themselves was a whole lot more fantasy at one point than the magic man in the sky. Sounds good to say but facts come and go and the impossible has a knack for becoming possible. Religion is about the last fantasy that I'd invest in, but I still think fantasy has been a sound investment.

[Tom]

Putting fantasy ahead of fact is stupidity.

In your opinion.
You are a minority on this planet.
But you want to do what Hitler did, what Stalin did, what every dictator has done.....outlaw religion. I would say your plan is the ultimate of fantasy.

Given the choice between God and Obama...you pick Obama.
Sad.

[fast4522]

Me neither... Except I have yet to find any western religion that doesn't. Some are more benign that others but they all stick their noses where they don't belong. I would favor the public practice of all religion be banned and proselytizing outlawed. Failing that, all organized religions should be required to post a bond large enough to cover any damage done by their clergy and/or adherents. It's time religion be held liable for its BS.

The founding fathers of these United states believed in the freedom for everybody to have faith in whatever religion one wanted, and that it was good for all to have that right. Your in contempt of the core beliefs we hold dear, while it is not expected of you to change you do carry the badge heathen.

[DJofSD]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/28/2nd-oklahoma-man-threatened-behead-coworker-police/

[woodtoo]

Just read a recent speech by ISIS leader Sheikh Adnani in which he encourages

beheadings of pretty much any nonbeliever wherever they may be.

religion of peace :rolleyes:

[Greyfox]

In your opinion.
You are a minority on this planet.
But you want to do what Hitler did, what Stalin did, what every dictator has done.....outlaw religion. I would say your plan is the ultimate of fantasy.

Given the choice between God and Obama...you pick Obama.
Sad.

Obviously to outlaw religion would be outright silly.
And yes many billions of people believe in various religions.
But that doesn't negate TJDave's statement:
"Putting fantasy ahead of reality is stupidity."

If you read any holy text, you'll find many sections that are pure fantasy or fiction.
If people choose to believe them, that's their right.
But even if they are in the large majority, doesn't make them right when it comes to dealing with a reality facing us today.

[Tom]

And you don't think a good deal of government is fantasy?

[Greyfox]

And you don't think a good deal of government is fantasy?

There probably is fantasy in government.
But when the tax man cometh, he may be operating on some fantasy, but it's still a reality of facts that he'll have in his pocket, that you may have to agree to or come up with a factual explanation as to why he's not right.

Of course, the present Commander in Chief, may be referring to a lot of religious beliefs, some of them false, when he interacts with his Generals.
So the reality is that religious fantasies may be highly influential in whether to bomb ISIS or not.

[TJDave]

Obviously to outlaw religion would be outright silly.


Who said that?

[Greyfox]

Who said that?

See post #46.

[TJDave]

See post #46.

I never said I wanted to outlaw religion.

[Greyfox]

I never said I wanted to outlaw religion.

and I never said you wanted to either. Geez.

[Tom]

A second person would have been beheaded, but was saved by the 2nd Amendment.

They guy ranted that he hated white people before the attack.
Did Obama go there, or send Holder?
Of course not - whites don't count with a bigot.

Was he charged with a hate crime?
Of course not. The victim was white.

They guy had posted beheading videos on Face Book, posted about hating whites, pro-Bin Laden stuff. What happened? Of course, nothing.

Had he made some gay slurs, he would have been in hot water.
Just behead a white women, no problem.

Meanwhile, Obama was still sticking his nose into Ferguson at an openly racist dinner Saturday night.

Racist N Chief.

[cj's dad]

Tom, there are those of us that see the hypocrisy and then there are some here who never will. It's just that simple.

[so.cal.fan]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152332582041835&set=vb.95357146834&type=2&theater

[woodtoo]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152332582041835&set=vb.95357146834&type=2&theater
Hell yeah :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Mike at A+]

Greg Gutfeld got it right. Speedy trial followed by even speedier execution. Taxpayers don't want to feed this scumbag for the next 20 years.