Trigger-happy Trooper

[FantasticDan]

Wow. :eek: :mad: :ThmbDown:

RBUUO_VFYMs
The Trooper has been fired and brought up on charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The mistake the trooper made was not confirming that the driver had a gun when he reappeared out of his vehicle.

The mistake the driver made was turning and diving back into his vehicle WAY too quickly when asked for his license. The trooper obviously interpreted this as a threat, and the fact he reversed and swung his car back into the gas station indicates he had already observed something suspicious.

Whenever I've been pulled over, I move slowly, ask for permission to reach for my wallet and do exactly as I'm told. I'm not the one with a gun.

[ArlJim78]

The driver did nothing wrong.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The driver did nothing wrong.

No kidding.

There may be a cautionary tale to moving too quickly around these itchy cats, but that isn't even close to justifiable. If that guy feared for his safety then he needs to twist balloons at kids parties for a living.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Doesn't it seem odd that the guy gets out of his car to go into the store (it appears), then when asked for his license, it's not in his wallet on his person? Maybe he's one of those folks that keeps it in his car, but he should have told the trooper he had to get it out of his vehicle.

I'm not justifying the shooting, but I'm trying to figure out what was going through the trooper's mind. I could see where he was justified in maybe drawing his weapon, but the no way was he justified in using deadly force.

The article indicates a "seat belt violation" was the reason the trooper challenged him. If true, then the trooper's actions are going to get him some jail time.....

[pandy]

In my opinion the trooper is incompetent and a coward, and probably racist. He fired 6 shots at the guy. He was fired and is being charged with assault and battery. I hope he goes to jail for a while.

[OntheRail]

Funny how when the Trooper was fired upon... it attempted murder. He shoots the kid and they charge him with aggravated assault and battery.

All this over a seat belt.... WTF.

[magwell]

This was sickening and what about the shots that missed, could have killed innocent bystanders. Very ugly situation a trigger happy cop.......

[cj's dad]

A sign of the times ! Unfortunately !

[Ocala Mike]

I'm trying to figure out what was going through the trooper's mind.




Do you think it could have been "Black male reaching in his car for what must be a weapon - shoot first, ask questions later!"

[NJ Stinks]

Funny how when the Trooper was fired upon... it attempted murder. He shoots the kid and they charge him with aggravated assault and battery.

All this over a seat belt.... WTF.

It's insane.

Cops should not be allowed to pull anybody over for a stinking seat belt. If somebody in the car did something else illegal to get pulled over - yea pile it on with the seat belt violation if you feel like being a pri_k. Otherwise, leave people alone.

[thaskalos]

The mistake the trooper made was not confirming that the driver had a gun when he reappeared out of his vehicle.

The mistake the driver made was turning and diving back into his vehicle WAY too quickly when asked for his license. The trooper obviously interpreted this as a threat, and the fact he reversed and swung his car back into the gas station indicates he had already observed something suspicious.

Whenever I've been pulled over, I move slowly, ask for permission to reach for my wallet and do exactly as I'm told. I'm not the one with a gun.

Do you have a relative who is a cop, or something? The driver did something WRONG in this video? This trigger-happy cop should be transferred to Chicago's south side...where he'd get the treatment that he deserves.

[thaskalos]

Doesn't it seem odd that the guy gets out of his car to go into the store (it appears), then when asked for his license, it's not in his wallet on his person? Maybe he's one of those folks that keeps it in his car, but he should have told the trooper he had to get it out of his vehicle.

I'm not justifying the shooting, but I'm trying to figure out what was going through the trooper's mind. I could see where he was justified in maybe drawing his weapon, but the no way was he justified in using deadly force.

The article indicates a "seat belt violation" was the reason the trooper challenged him. If true, then the trooper's actions are going to get him some jail time.....

Why would a cop ask a man, whom he just shot for no reason whatsoever, to put his hands behind his back?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Do you think it could have been "Black male reaching in his car for what must be a weapon - shoot first, ask questions later!"

Could be, but I doubt it. Although we have no reason to believe race was an issue, something about this driver had the trooper in "red alert" mode. We don't know what that something is......

[Marshall Bennett]

Do you think it could have been "Black male reaching in his car for what must be a weapon - shoot first, ask questions later!"
Yeah, this was bad from many angles. The cop went with instinct and refused to take a chance in losing his own life. Had it been a little old lady, regardless of color, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Although the incident played out in a matter of seconds, it's still a matter of having rolled the dice and lost.
He's guilty and needs to pay for it.
The kid should have had his wallet on him when he exited the car, but then the cop overreacted. The cop may be found guilty, but a good lawyer will minimize the punishment.
The media is moving slow on this one. Expect them to crank it up and draw a lot of emotions. Perhaps prepare to man the riot gear, too. :)

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Do you have a relative who is a cop, or something? The driver did something WRONG in this video? This trigger-happy cop should be transferred to Chicago's south side...where he'd get the treatment that he deserves.

I do not have a relative who is a cop, nor do I know one as a friend. You don't think the driver's sudden movement by diving back into his car is a wrong move? Standing outside the vehicle with his hands visible, the driver is not viewed as a threat. Once his back is turned and his hands are out-of-sight, that is no longer the case.

As a trooper in South Carolina, the officer has certainly dealt with many blacks. Are we so conditioned by the media that race must be an issue before we know all the facts? If the driver had been an 80 year old granny, I won't argue that she probably would not have been shot. But if the driver had been a skinhead with a swastika tattoo on his forehead, I'm thinking the result would have been similar.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Why would a cop ask a man, whom he just shot for no reason whatsoever, to put his hands behind his back?

Standard procedure. Until frisked and patted down, the trooper doesn't know if the guy has a concealed weapon.

It appears the trooper fired four shots, two after the driver is backing away from his vehicle with his hands up. Hopefully they made the trooper provide a urine or blood sample, because in spite of his training he was in full combat mode.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Funny how when the Trooper was fired upon... it attempted murder. He shoots the kid and they charge him with aggravated assault and battery.

All this over a seat belt.... WTF.

A lot of states have laws on the books that allow for more serious charges to be brought when the victim is a cop, versus the other way around. In a case like this, it makes those laws seem absurd. In a case like the recent ambush of troopers in PA, not so much:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/09/24/police-believe-they-spotted-suspect-wanted-in-fatal-pa-trooper-ambush/

Hopefully the release of the video, the firing of the trooper, and bringing him up on charges will defuse the potential race-related backlash. I wouldn't be surprised if more damning info comes out on the trooper in this case, versus the driver.

[thaskalos]

I do not have a relative who is a cop, nor do I know one as a friend. You don't think the driver's sudden movement by diving back into his car is a wrong move? Standing outside the vehicle with his hands visible, the driver is not viewed as a threat. Once his back is turned and his hands are out-of-sight, that is no longer the case.

As a trooper in South Carolina, the officer has certainly dealt with many blacks. Are we so conditioned by the media that race must be an issue before we know all the facts? If the driver had been an 80 year old granny, I won't argue that she probably would not have been shot. But if the driver had been a skinhead with a swastika tattoo on his forehead, I'm thinking the result would have been similar.

True story:

On a cold January night a few years ago, I was driving home with my then 12-year old son in the car. I was driving east on Dempster Ave, a little past Milwaukee Ave...and I was approaching the left turn which takes me to my house. The only other car on the road was a car driving towards me a few blocks ago. As I started making the left turn...I saw the car that was coming towards me turn on its police lights and siren, and speed forward. Not realizing that the cops were after me, I continued on my way...and I was on my driveway and out of my car by the time the flashing squad car caught up to me. Seeing that the cops were after me...I told my young son to remain in the car.

Two cops came out of the squad car...and they asked me why I got out of the car. I told them that my young son and I had arrived home...and I had no reason to suspect that I was the target of their chase. Everything was nice and polite, until I nonchalantly put both hands in my jacket pockets because of the frigid cold.

That's when all hell broke loose!

Both cops reached for their weapons...and one of them was pointing his gun right at me while screaming to me to get my hands out of my pockets -- scaring my kid to death. And this was in a well-lit neighborhood...where they could see both me and my son very clearly.

Now...I know that REAL cops have a dangerous job...but I also know for a fact that the most dangerous part of a Morton Grove IL cop's job is to avoid the skunks as he scurries through the neighborhoods late at night posting tickets to cars that have no city sticker. What possible reason did this guy have to behave as he did in front of a 12-year old?

If the cops are THIS scared...then why don't they get jobs in those currency exchanges -- where they can be behind that bullet-proof glass?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

True story:

On a cold January night a few years ago, I was driving home with my then 12-year old son in the car. I was driving east on Dempster Ave, a little past Milwaukee Ave...and I was approaching the left turn which takes me to my house. The only other car on the road was a car driving towards me a few blocks ago. As I started making the left turn...I saw the car that was coming towards me turn on its police lights and siren, and speed forward. Not realizing that the cops were after me, I continued on my way...and I was on my driveway and out of my car by the time the flashing squad car caught up to me. Seeing that the cops were after me...I told my young son to remain in the car.

Two cops came out of the squad car...and they asked me why I got out of the car. I told them that my young son and I had arrived home...and I had no reason to suspect that I was the target of their chase. Everything was nice and polite, until I nonchalantly put both hands in my jacket pockets because of the frigid cold.

That's when all hell broke loose!

Both cops reached for their weapons...and one of them was pointing his gun right at me while screaming to me to get my hands out of my pockets -- scaring my kid to death. And this was in a well-lit neighborhood...where they could see both me and my son very clearly.

Now...I know that REAL cops have a dangerous job...but I also know for a fact that the most dangerous part of a Morton Grove IL cop's job is to avoid the skunks as he scurries through the neighborhoods late at night posting tickets to cars that have no city sticker. What possible reason did this guy have to behave as he did in front of a 12-year old?

If the cops are THIS scared...then why don't they get jobs in those currency exchanges -- where they can be behind that bullet-proof glass?

Did the cops tell you why they wanted to pull you over? Speeding? Any particular reason they might have been more on edge with you?

Having a child in the car these days is tricky. Just yesterday I received an Amber alert on my phone for a two year old kidnapped by his father. I would not wanted to have been driving around with a kid in a similar car.

REAL cops versus the cops with cushy jobs makes no difference to me, and often the Barney Fife types are worse. They all have guns, and I don't. I've been pulled over 15-20 times at least, sometimes for no reason, but usually for something. Had a gun drawn on me once - my fault. Keeping your hands in plain sight is rule number 1. I used to like to get out of the car to make it more disarming for the officer(s), and when I'm on the bike I'm already outside of course. Some cops don't like that, so then it's hands on the steering wheel until directed to do something else. Had my wallet in the glove compartment once, and it's where I keep the registration (and under the seat on the bike). I always ask for permission or tell the officer I'm going to open it up before reaching over to do so.

A lot of people may not like it, but the rules are different when stopped by a police officer. You're guilty for the moment, and a potential threat until proven otherwise. If you think exercising your 4th Amendment rights (and others) is a good idea, you'll probably get a ticket. If you stay calm, don't get angry, cooperate and keep your hands visible, the outcome may be more pleasant.

Many like to bitch about overzealous, incompetent or insane cops (and there's plenty of them), but not many are willing to go into the career field where it's stressful, dangerous and a significant percentage of the public think you're pigs.

[DJofSD]

The driver did nothing wrong.
Really? Are you serious?

[HUSKER55]

I missed it. Seriously...what did he do wrong. The guy was asked for some ID and he went to get some.

I leave my wallet in the car, if I take it, and carry my credit card in my pocket. I never carry cash.

Seriously.....

[DJofSD]

I missed it. Seriously...what did he do wrong. The guy was asked for some ID and he went to get some.



OK, let's try this: put yourself into the situation as the cop then tell me, do you know what the driver is doing when he turns his back to you, reaches inside the vehicle and you can not see what his hands are doing let alone what he is going to do if and when he turns back around to face you?

First and foremost, law enforcement will always protect themselves. Anything that is a possible threat will be dealt with as such.

[FantasticDan]

I missed it. Seriously...what did he do wrong. The guy was asked for some ID and he went to get some.Don't you get it? After checking his pocket, he calmly and normally reached into the open door of a truck he just exited to retrieve the item he was just asked for. Don't you get how that was wrong? :rolleyes:

If the cop could shoot straight, he'd be dead right now.

[HUSKER55]

ok guys. Thanks for the replies.

It is a good thing I am not on the jury.

[FantasticDan]

OK, let's try this: put yourself into the situation as the cop then tell me, do you know what the driver is doing when he turns his back to you, reaches inside the vehicle and you can not see what his hands are doing let alone what he is going to do if and when he turns back around to face you?How about we try this: The public safety director that fired the trooper acknowledged that the trooper had a "clear and unobstructed view" of the driver the whole time.

[johnhannibalsmith]

OK, let's try this: put yourself into the situation as the cop then tell me, do you know what the driver is doing when he turns his back to you, reaches inside the vehicle and you can not see what his hands are doing let alone what he is going to do if and when he turns back around to face you?

First and foremost, law enforcement will always protect themselves. Anything that is a possible threat will be dealt with as such.

Come on, at what point does someone finally bend and say that's just too much. The next step is literally just to start firing after throwing on the lights... if it isn't too much trouble to actually announce your presence and give a guy a chance before charging from the vehicle and loping at someone demanding something.

I'd never do what that guy did because I know some peahearted "law enforcement" officer just worried about my safety since my belt was off in a gas station parking lot might come guns a blazing if I don't act like his personal computer. But jiminy, it really isn't a very good reason to do so. The cop is the one that put himself in a bad spot, then realized it, assumed the worst, and reacted the worst possible way.

The guy in the car did nothing wrong but allegedly undo his belt to soon if it was ever on and react with an urgency that reflected the intensity of the approaching thug cop, probably trying as best he could to comply and got shot for it. It wasn't as though he was in the car when approached, got out, then got in, and was acting like trouble. Cop created trouble in his mind. **** that cop, hope he enjoys protective custody.

[DJofSD]

How about we try this: The public safety director that fired the trooper acknowledged that the trooper had a "clear and unobstructed view" of the driver the whole time.
Clear and unobstructed -- not in my opinion. But, yes, the trooper did over react. While there was some reason to pull his weapon, why he fired is not clear.

How long was this guy on the force?

[ArlJim78]

Really? Are you serious?
Of course I'm serious. I'd have done the same thing.
You pull up to the store and as you get out of your car an officer asks to see your ID. Wanting to immediately comply with the officer as any innocent person just getting off of work who has done nothing wrong would, and realizing that your ID was inside the car, you turn to reach inside to retrieve it. The officer didn't draw on him and scream "freeze put your hands up". He only asked for ID. What the hell are you supposed to think? Who assumes you're going to get shot for retrieving your ID as instructed?
The guy is a menace who doesn't belong on any police force.

[DJofSD]

Come on, at what point does someone finally bend and say that's just too much. The next step is literally just to start firing after throwing on the lights... if it isn't too much trouble to actually announce your presence and give a guy a chance before charging from the vehicle and loping at someone demanding something.

I'd never do what that guy did because I know some peahearted "law enforcement" officer just worried about my safety since my belt was off in a gas station parking lot might come guns a blazing if I don't act like his personal computer. But jiminy, it really isn't a very good reason to do so. The cop is the one that put himself in a bad spot, then realized it, assumed the worst, and reacted the worst possible way.

The guy in the car did nothing wrong but allegedly undo his belt to soon if it was ever on and react with an urgency that reflected the intensity of the approaching thug cop, probably trying as best he could to comply and got shot for it. It wasn't as though he was in the car when approached, got out, then got in, and was acting like trouble. Cop created trouble in his mind. **** that cop, hope he enjoys protective custody.
Some one did say it was too much. That's why he's being prosecuted.

You seem to think when you encounter some one in law enforcement that since you know what you intentions are that every one knows you mean no harm. If you want to take that chance, be my guest.

[DJofSD]

Of course I'm serious. I'd have done the same thing.
You pull up to the store and as you get out of your car an officer asks to see your ID. Wanting to immediately comply with the officer as any innocent person just getting off of work who has done nothing wrong would, and realizing that your ID was inside the car, you turn to reach inside to retrieve it. The officer didn't draw on him and scream "freeze put your hands up". He only asked for ID. What the hell are you supposed to think? Who assumes you're going to get shot for retrieving your ID as instructed?
The guy is a menace who doesn't belong on any police force.
Agreed, he's not some one that should be in law enforcement.

If your ID was not on your person, what prevents you from saying 'it's on the seat' or words to that effect before you reach for it?

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

You seem to think when you encounter some one in law enforcement that since you know what you intentions are that every one knows you mean no harm. If you want to take that chance, be my guest.

Oh well, the second paragraph was a waste. No, I don't. I stated as much and said I would not have done what this guy did for that reason. But that it is an absolutely preposterous reason to feel that way. Demanding that you act like a POW at the guillotine the moment you see or hear a guy in uniform that is supposed to be there to protect you really doesn't sound like what police are supposed to bring to the table in a free community.

[DJofSD]

Oh well, the second paragraph was a waste. No, I don't. I stated as much and said I would not have done what this guy did for that reason. But that it is an absolutely preposterous reason to feel that way. Demanding that you act like a POW at the guillotine the moment you see or hear a guy in uniform that is supposed to be there to protect you really doesn't sound like what police are supposed to bring to the table in a free community.
Where do you come up with the idea that the cops are there to protect you?

No one is saying you have to assume the position just because you are in a situation with a cop that has given you an order. But, he's the one with the gun. Why take the chance of doing something stupid?

[GameTheory]

Agreed, he's not some one that should be in law enforcement.

If your ID was not on your person, what prevents you from saying 'it's on the seat' or words to that effect before you reach for it?Because you're not the cop. You're not the one with training. Normal people get flustered and have reflexes, especially when they have no idea why they are being stopped or whatever. They shouldn't get shot for it. The police seem to be trained that everyone is out to kill them, and that's a problem. The cop should have the coolest head in any situation.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Where do you come up with the idea that the cops are there to protect you?

No one is saying you have to assume the position just because you are in a situation with a cop that has given you an order. But, he's the one with the gun. Why take the chance of doing something stupid?

Protect and Serve is a pretty common police motto. If I didn't say it specifically, I would assume my tone and context implies what they are allegedly there to do, not that I feel warm and fuzzy by the comfort of a nearby cop.

People put up with lots of stupid shit from people in authority when they have the guns and the green light. I would hope that logic doesn't dictate that putting up with stupid shit is the proper outcome.

[DJofSD]

Protect and Serve is a pretty common police motto. If I didn't say it specifically, I would assume my tone and context implies what they are allegedly there to do, not that I feel warm and fuzzy by the comfort of a nearby cop.

People put up with lots of stupid shit from people in authority when they have the guns and the green light. I would hope that logic doesn't dictate that putting up with stupid shit is the proper outcome.
It's a motto. It would be nice if it was binding and true. And while I have a lot of respect for both the military and law enforcement, I do not for one second think the cops have me at the very top of their list when it comes to their duties. If anything, protect and serve is about protecting themselves and the fellow officers and serving the community is second on the list.

[DJofSD]

Because you're not the cop. You're not the one with training. Normal people get flustered and have reflexes, especially when they have no idea why they are being stopped or whatever. They shouldn't get shot for it. The police seem to be trained that everyone is out to kill them, and that's a problem. The cop should have the coolest head in any situation.
No, I'm not the cop but that does not mean I have to have special training. For myself, I was taught to have respect for authority including the police. However, I suspect a large percentage of the population does not and so it does not surprise me if the perception, both on the part of the general public and the cops themselves, is that everyone is out to kill them.

Yes, stress makes people stupid. I would speculate most cops, most of the time, are the one's with the coolest head but being cool is not what it's about, is it. It's about being in control of the situation. And if stress causes you to do something not very smart, chances are the cop is going to react in order to maintain control.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's a motto. It would be nice if it was binding and true. And while I have a lot of respect for both the military and law enforcement, I do not for one second think the cops have me at the very top of their list when it comes to their duties. If anything, protect and serve is about protecting themselves and the fellow officers and serving the community is second on the list.

I think we pretty much agree almost universally with the exception that I think it's better to say that the victim did nothing wrong despite having a fighting a chance at preventing it by doing something different. Obviously, that's a theme that runs through a few rivers of victimhood and I think, in this scenario and the seeming increasing number of similar ones, there needs to be a distinction made that doing the smart thing in the name of the self-preservation doesn't really always make it the right thing.

[DJofSD]

Doesn't it seem odd that the guy gets out of his car to go into the store (it appears), then when asked for his license, it's not in his wallet on his person? Maybe he's one of those folks that keeps it in his car, but he should have told the trooper he had to get it out of his vehicle.


A long time ago, I had my wallet stolen while running some laps during lunch. Lost all of my money and ID when the locker with not only my clothes but 3 others was broken into and all valuables taken. Since then I never keep my money in my wallet, and, I never keep anything more than just a drivers license in it. My money is it my pocket -- or pockets -- and any other items such as my plastic is somewhere else altogether.

And about the only time I don't have my wallet in my back pocket is when I am driving for more than an hour or two at a stretch. After a couple of hours behind the wheel I start to get TB -- tired butt -- and taking the wallet out of the hip pocket reliefs it for a while.

[DJofSD]

I think we pretty much agree almost universally with the exception that I think it's better to say that the victim did nothing wrong despite having a fighting a chance at preventing it by doing something different. Obviously, that's a theme that runs through a few rivers of victimhood and I think, in this scenario and the seeming increasing number of similar ones, there needs to be a distinction made that doing the smart thing in the name of the self-preservation doesn't really always make it the right thing.
OK, I'm good with that -- maybe he didn't do anything wrong but he certainly didn't do the "right thing" or perhaps the "smart thing," if you will.

Self-preservation -- I like it.

[thaskalos]

I make it a point to always leave my licence in the car, for fear of losing it...and I never take it with me when I enter convenient stores or gas stations. It wasn't until NOW that I realized what a grave danger this puts me in.

Thanks FD, for posting this video. :ThmbUp:

[OntheRail]

Because you're not the cop. You're not the one with training. Normal people get flustered and have reflexes, especially when they have no idea why they are being stopped or whatever. They shouldn't get shot for it. The police seem to be trained that everyone is out to kill them, and that's a problem. The cop should have the coolest head in any situation.

Not only that the kid never raised him hands above his waist while exiting the car only after he was shot and backing away he put both hands up and was shot at again two more times. Johnny Law has a Bullet-Proof vet on and must of assumed kid did as well... no center mass shot but shoots for the groin area.

Think they should test Super Trooper for PED's

[TJDave]

Ordinary citizens should not have to jump through hoops so that cops can feel safer. Law enforcement is a dangerous profession. Cops need to accept the risk and approach their jobs, first and foremost, with courtesy and respect...or seek a different career path.

[cj's dad]

I spoke to a Baltimore City PO last night. Here is the protocol for a traffic stop as taught at the academy and explained to me. I hope I don't miss anything.

The PO approaches the stopped vehicle from the drivers side rear.
He stops just short of the front door.
He instructs the driver to turn off his engine.
He asks for license and registration
By this time a 2nd PO has arrived if available.
The DL and registration are run through a computer and any wants or warrants outstanding will appear on screen.
If clear, the PO will then inform the driver of the reason for the stop and act accordingly - issue a ticket or not, and the driver will be allowed to leave the scene.
If the W&W's come back dirty, the driver will be told to step out of the vehicle with his hands in full view at all times. The 2nd officer has by now taken up a position at the passenger side door, his unholstered weapon at his hip.
Upon arriving outside the vehicle, the driver will be told to turn around and he will be handcuffed for HIS SAFETY.
depending on many factors, the driver will either spend the night in jail, face a judge in the AM, post bond if required,, or released on his own recognizance. His vehicle will be towed to a city owned impound lot.
A traffic stop for possible DWI is basically the same with the exception that the driver and any passengers are told to leave the vehicle after the engine is stopped. This will not be done until a 2nd PO is on scene.

[ArlJim78]

The guy was already stopped and out of his car when the cruiser rolled up, this wasn't a traffic stop. What's the protocol for a seatbelt violation when the suspect is standing in a parking lot in an unthreatening manner next to their stopped car?

[cj's dad]

I am not defending the PO here, I was just trying to help with a stop protocol lest anyone here have any questions regarding what to do and not to do.

This cop is in deep s--t, and rightly so.

[davew]

The guy was already stopped and out of his car when the cruiser rolled up, this wasn't a traffic stop. What's the protocol for a seatbelt violation when the suspect is standing in a parking lot in an unthreatening manner next to their stopped car?

looks like the cop was sitting at the gas station/convenience store, started to leave and decided to come back in and ticket driver arriving and going into store. Very hard to justify and not sure what laws are in that state as far as seat belts.

[Grits]

I try not to call people names, but in this case one can't help but wonder who is the bigger idiot--the officer for shooting an unarmed man, using excessive force firing 4 shots, hitting with only one. Or, the state of South Carolina for issuing him a 9mm and a badge!

[Ocala Mike]

Or, the state of South Carolina for issuing him a 9mm and a badge!




The staie of SC will be paying out lots of money for that hiring decision, I am sure. Incidentally, anyone know the condition of the victim? Is the trooper in the pokey or bonded out?

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Incidentally, anyone know the condition of the victim? ...

When I first saw this story somewhere, I remember the prognosis being that he'd likely make a full and complete recovery since the guy shoots like one of the Three Amigos.

[Tom]

The guy was already stopped and out of his car when the cruiser rolled up, this wasn't a traffic stop. What's the protocol for a seatbelt violation when the suspect is standing in a parking lot in an unthreatening manner next to their stopped car?

Apparently, shoot him.
Do we really need armed cops bothering with BS like seat belt violations?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The cop is 31, 8 year veteran, brought up on charges, and is deep doo doo. And a bad shot. The driver is 35, was treated and released from the hospital with a gunshot wound to the hip.

Something tells me there's more to this story than simply a trigger happy cop. I'm betting drugs or 4 x 12 hour shifts in a row, or something that induced more than average stress. Hate to think the guy always was like this while on patrol.... :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

The cop is 31, 8 year veteran, brought up on charges, and is deep doo doo. And a bad shot. The driver is 35, was treated and released from the hospital with a gunshot wound to the hip.

Something tells me there's more to this story than simply a trigger happy cop. I'm betting drugs or 4 x 12 hour shifts in a row, or something that induced more than average stress. Hate to think the guy always was like this while on patrol.... :confused:

The whole way it went down like he spotted someone he recognized or was looking for made me think the guy went in thinking trouble right away. Since I've already posted my official stance here, I think I can get away with saying that without it being taken out of context as some sort of excuse or speculating that the victim "had it coming"... but it seemed so irrational, like for all the people talking in this thread as though they wouldn't have gotten shot because they'd never have done it like that (myself included)... none of us probably ever had anything to worry about. Maybe he's just that loose of a cannon and even if he isn't he ought to be prosecuted as though he is, but the logical thing seemed to me that he anticipated going in when he went after that particular vehicle he may need to catch the guy off guard and he may need his weapon.

[JustRalph]

this is the first time i watched the video. Heard about it on the radio.

Trooper needed to be fired. I have to believe there is more to this. Btw, seat belt violation in this case should be interpreted as " I want to search this guys car"

Just my opine. This cop was jumpier than hell. If he is that wound up he shouldn't be out there.

I will guess that this same scenario happens 500 times a day across the country. I bet it happen to me 500 times or more in 12 yrs or so . The appropriate thing to do would be to take cover. Not shoot.

Taking cover behind his car or where-ever to assess the situation would have been easy too. Just cranking off those rounds was over the top.

I would like to know if this guy in the truck was a "known party" with a previous history of guns or weapons? either way.....the cop is an idiot.

[newtothegame]

As most others here have pointed out, and I agree, punishment needs to happen for the officer.
But, I have to ask myself, what made this cop react like that? He was way over the top and on edge. Not a justification but a possible explanation for what happened.
Needless to say, I would hope the entire community of police officers is not judge by the actions of the few...and the same would go for the victim in this case. All to often race and stereotypes are brought into these things when there isn't a need for them.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The whole way it went down like he spotted someone he recognized or was looking for made me think the guy went in thinking trouble right away. Since I've already posted my official stance here, I think I can get away with saying that without it being taken out of context as some sort of excuse or speculating that the victim "had it coming"... but it seemed so irrational, like for all the people talking in this thread as though they wouldn't have gotten shot because they'd never have done it like that (myself included)... none of us probably ever had anything to worry about. Maybe he's just that loose of a cannon and even if he isn't he ought to be prosecuted as though he is, but the logical thing seemed to me that he anticipated going in when he went after that particular vehicle he may need to catch the guy off guard and he may need his weapon.

I don't know about South Carolina, but I was under the impression that State Troopers tend to be a notch or two above your city or county or town cops on the talent spectrum. I agree that there's something going through the trooper's mind prior to getting out of his car, but I can't figure it out. If he suspected trouble, you would think he would have asked the guy to step away from the car or warned him not to go into the vehicle. But it's so weird, one second he's asking him for his license, "please", and the next he's blazing away.

What's particularly disturbing are the two shots fired after he has his hands up.

It's easy to play "armchair trooper", but something ain't quite right here....

[PaceAdvantage]

My brother (who is white by the way...lol) once had a service revolver pointed at his head while sitting in his car during a traffic stop, simply because he went "too quickly" towards the glove compartment to get his registration and insurance card.

JR is a former cop and I will defer to him on all of these cases. If he feels the cop is an idiot and was way out of line, I will agree.

HOWEVER, with that said, in today's society, I can UNDERSTAND why this happened. I don't agree with it, but I UNDERSTAND it...

In today's society, for a multitude of reasons, human life is not valued as much as it used to be...people killing cops to escape prison time is commonplace...so I UNDERSTAND how something like this can go down...and how a cop with only seconds to process a potentially deadly situation can make a serious error in judgement.

[alydar]

My brother (who is white by the way...lol) once had a service revolver pointed at his head while sitting in his car during a traffic stop, simply because he went "too quickly" towards the glove compartment to get his registration and insurance card.

JR is a former cop and I will defer to him on all of these cases. If he feels the cop is an idiot and was way out of line, I will agree.

HOWEVER, with that said, in today's society, I can UNDERSTAND why this happened. I don't agree with it, but I UNDERSTAND it...

In today's society, for a multitude of reasons, human life is not valued as much as it used to be...people killing cops to escape prison time is commonplace...so I UNDERSTAND how something like this can go down...and how a cop with only seconds to process a potentially deadly situation can make a serious error in judgement.

In 2013 there were 105 cop deaths in the line of duty. 30 of which were from gunfire. While this number in not acceptable, it is hardly commonplace.

[thaskalos]

My brother (who is white by the way...lol) once had a service revolver pointed at his head while sitting in his car during a traffic stop, simply because he went "too quickly" towards the glove compartment to get his registration and insurance card.

JR is a former cop and I will defer to him on all of these cases. If he feels the cop is an idiot and was way out of line, I will agree.

HOWEVER, with that said, in today's society, I can UNDERSTAND why this happened. I don't agree with it, but I UNDERSTAND it...

In today's society, for a multitude of reasons, human life is not valued as much as it used to be...people killing cops to escape prison time is commonplace...so I UNDERSTAND how something like this can go down...and how a cop with only seconds to process a potentially deadly situation can make a serious error in judgement.

There is nothing understandable about an unarmed man getting shot four times from up-close by a trigger-happy cop. It isn't like these guys are DRAFTED or something. If the pressure of the job is too much for them...then they should seek safer places of employment.

[JustRalph]

There is nothing understandable about an unarmed man getting shot four times from up-close by a trigger-happy cop. It isn't like these guys are DRAFTED or something. If the pressure of the job is too much for them...then they should seek safer places of employment.

This is why I say there is more to this.
This guy wasn't that jumpy for no reason............ there has to be a back story to this

[thaskalos]

This is why I say there is more to this.
This guy wasn't that jumpy for no reason............ there has to be a back story to this

There is more than one way of looking at this, Ralph. You, being an ex-policeman, is looking for a reason why this guy was so jumpy. But I, being a simple citizen, am wondering what OTHER criminal activity this guy has gotten away with in the past.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is nothing understandable about an unarmed man getting shot four times from up-close by a trigger-happy cop. It isn't like these guys are DRAFTED or something. If the pressure of the job is too much for them...then they should seek safer places of employment.Look...even you must admit that the driver could have easily been going for a gun inside the car and when he whirled back around, BAM, he's holding a gun and opening fire. An entirely plausible scenario from the way the driver rushed back into his vehicle and came out VERY quickly, as if he grabbed something off the passenger seat or out of the center console...why rush back into and out of the car like that just to get a license and/or registration? Makes zero sense.

Like I said, I don't agree the cop took the appropriate action, BUT, the driver was a freakin idiot as well. You NEVER make those kinds of move around a cop right after being pulled over...just ask my brother...

[thaskalos]

Look...even you must admit that the driver could have easily been going for a gun and when he whirled around, bam, he's holding a gun and shooting. An entirely plausible scenario from the way the driver rushed back into his vehicle and came out VERY quickly, as if he grabbed something off the passenger seat or out of the center console.

Like I said, I don't agree the cop took the appropriate action, BUT, the driver was a freakin idiot as well. You NEVER make those kinds of move around a cop...just ask my brother...

I don't know what you mean when you say "even me"...

No...I don't think that the driver did anything wrong in this scenario. Why should I think that he could "easily" have been reaching for a gun; did this encounter come after a high-speed chase or something? The cop approached this man for a bullshit reason...and the man's demeanor in his initial confrontation with the cop was non-threatening. Yes...the man was too quick when he reached in this car...but aren't cops trained to actually SEE a gun before they start blasting away?

He shot the man four times, and then, even though he saw that he shot him in error...the first thing he thought of saying to him was to tell him to put his hands behind his back so he could cuff him? Cuff him for WHAT?

He shot an unarmed man four times at point-blank range, PA...and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that there must have been some reason for his behavior? Where is the proof of that? Don't we have enough reported cases of renegade cops out there? Why should we think that this was any different?

[PaceAdvantage]

He shot an unarmed man four times at point-blank range, PA...and we are supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that there must have been some reason for his behavior? Where is the proof of that? Don't we have enough reported cases of renegade cops out there? Why should we think that this was any different?I never said anything about benefit of the doubt. I am trying to give you a reason why. Not an excuse or an acquittal.

Why would a guy who has been on the job for 8 years suddenly and out of the blue just start shooting at a guy for no reason? He's been on the job 8 years. This wasn't his first traffic stop.

Why do YOU think he opened fire. I just watched the video again...there is more to this story...probably the fact that this officer was involved in something similar to this in 2012:

"Another trooper joined the pursuit, and the driver stopped at a bank, exited his vehicle and fired shots at both troopers in the parking lot, police said."

Or maybe he was just another racist good ol' boy cop who woke up looking to shoot him a black man that day...I mean, that's what you want to hear, isn't it?

[thaskalos]

I never said anything about benefit of the doubt. I am trying to give you a reason why. Not an excuse or an acquittal.

Why would a guy who has been on the job for 8 years suddenly and out of the blue just start shooting at a guy for no reason? He's been on the job 8 years. This wasn't his first traffic stop.

Why do YOU think he opened fire. I just watched the video again...there is more to this story...probably the fact that this officer was involved in something similar to this in 2012:

"Another trooper joined the pursuit, and the driver stopped at a bank, exited his vehicle and fired shots at both troopers in the parking lot, police said."

Or maybe he was just another racist good ol' boy cop who woke up looking to shoot him a black man that day...I mean, that's what you want to hear, isn't it?

See...you got me all wrong. That's not what I want to hear at all. In fact...the race card ain't my cup of tea, and I haven't played it even once during my time here.

IMO...this is just another rogue cop, like some others that I've had the misfortune to cross paths with. When they called them "pigs"...they committed an injustice against the four-legged kind.

[cj's dad]

See...you got me all wrong. That's not what I want to hear at all. In fact...the race card ain't my cup of tea, and I haven't played it even once during my time here.

IMO...this is just another rogue cop, like some others that I've had the misfortune to cross paths with. When they called them "pigs"...they committed an injustice against the four-legged kind.

Look who you are aligning yourself with. Classy !

[pandy]

You can't make any legitimate excuse for what the cop did. Obviously he panicked and felt threatened but he could have simply pulled his gun and shouted "freeze, put your hands up", or even fired a warning shot in the air and the guy would have froze. Instead he opened fire on the poor guy. The cop doesn't deserve to wear the uniform.

[DJofSD]

Warning shot into the air?

You've been watching too many movies.

[Tom]

On retrospect, it sounds better than a warning shot into the buttock.

[Clocker]

Warning shot into the air?

You've been watching too many movies.

Ditto. Warning shots into the air have a high probability of coming back to earth.

[PaceAdvantage]

At least the motorist will be getting a decent payday for his troubles...of course, he risked his life in the process, but it might be a win-win for all in the end.

[cj's dad]

Ditto. Warning shots into the air have a high probability of coming back to earth.

I believe a bullet fired into the air returns to the ground at the same velocity it left the gun barrel.

There used to ba a tradition here in certain parts of the city where guns were fired into the air at midnight on New Years eve. A few years ago, a person was hit in the top of the head and was killed; it was determined to be the result of this foolishness.

[pandy]

He could have fired a warning shot into the ground. If he had, he would probably still be a free man today, instead of going to jail. What he should have done is pulled his gun and said, freeze, which would have stopped the guy's movement. The bottom line is, the cop panicked and is not fit for duty.

[PaceAdvantage]

Cop should have stayed standing behind his open car door as he addressed the motorist, hand on his gun...if he was that nervous about this guy for whatever reason...

I really think the cop, when he saw the motorist turn to retrieve something from the car and then turn back around, had a flashback to 2012 and his instinct took over...

Every life and death situation decision isn't always the correct one...thankfully, nobody died this time.

[DJofSD]

He could have fired a warning shot into the ground.

Ya, and then yelled 'Dance! Mister, dance!'

[MONEY]

OK
Here we go.
I had a similar car stop in the late 70s or early 80s when I was a NYC cop.

The car that I wan't to pull over, pulled over immediately.
I got out of the police car and started walking towards the car.
The driver quickly jumped and I asked him for his license.
He smiled and reached inside his car.
When I saw him reach inside I ran towards him & he pulled a sawed
off shotgun out of the car, which I quickly wrestled away from him.

Here's the deal.
The cop put himself at a disadvantage.
He was too far from the car.

Next (it was only a seat belt violation).
Because the cop was too far from the car, he should
have let the driver go to the store & issued the summons
when the driver returned.

Cops are taught to take cover, so that they don't
have to shoot when someone makes a (suspicious move).
The cop already made the 1st mistake of positioning himself
too far, then he makes another mistake by not taking cover
so that he can have a split second of observation before he
needs to take/not take action.

Even more simple,
The cop got lazy. He didn't use the tactics that he was taught
in the Police Academy and ended up shooting an innocent man.

When a police officer has an encounter with any person
during the performance of his/her duties, there is no
such thing as routine.

Cops that figure this out don't end up killing or hurting
people unnecessary.

[Ocala Mike]

I believe a bullet fired into the air returns to the ground at the same velocity it left the gun barrel.



Actually, no. It more or less (depending on the trajectory) returns to the ground at what is called terminal velocity, maybe around 300 feet/sec. Definitely could penetrate the body at that speed, though, and could be lethal.

[tucker6]

Actually, no. It more or less (depending on the trajectory) returns to the ground at what is called terminal velocity, maybe around 300 feet/sec. Definitely could penetrate the body at that speed, though, and could be lethal.
Agree . Absolutely can penetrate the body at terminal velocity. Many such cases exist.

[JustRalph]

Great post Money :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

Great post Money :ThmbUp:

Ditto :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Ditto :ThmbUp:Add me to the list of people who appreciates Money's spot-on post...

[Tom]

Great story, Money.

[PaceAdvantage]

OK
Here we go.
I had a similar car stop in the late 70s or early 80s when I was a NYC cop.

The car that I wan't to pull over, pulled over immediately.
I got out of the police car and started walking towards the car.
The driver quickly jumped and I asked him for his license.
He smiled and reached inside his car.
When I saw him reach inside I ran towards him & he pulled a sawed
off shotgun out of the car, which I quickly wrestled away from him.You know, because I love to play devil's advocate, I have to say, there are many in this thread who would be critical of you for running towards your (eventual) shotgun wielding suspect just because he reached inside his car after you asked him for his license.

Just as they were critical of this trigger-happy cop for reacting to the reach in (albeit on a much grander scale). Does anyone wish to contest my line of thinking?

[iceknight]

You know, because I love to play devil's advocate, I have to say, there are many in this thread who would be critical of you for running towards your (eventual) shotgun wielding suspect just because he reached inside his car after you asked him for his license.

Just as they were critical of this trigger-happy cop for reacting to the reach in (albeit on a much grander scale). Does anyone wish to contest my line of thinking? NO, because it was the 70's or 80's when cops weren't riding battle tanks looking to mow people down who want to do democratic protests. They were actually living more by the "protect and serve" motto.

Further for you to comment somewhere earlier that the victim would get a payday
"At least the motorist will be getting a decent payday for his troubles...of course, he risked his life in the process, but it might be a win-win for all in the end."

explain to us how it is a win-win for the taxpayers of South Carolina? because of the stupid and reckless actions of this cop?

[FantasticDan]

...And I would think that the trooper is a part of the "all" in this equation, and I don't see how this is a win for him either.

[PaceAdvantage]

...And I would think that the trooper is a part of the "all" in this equation, and I don't see how this is a win for him either.To you and the reply above you...

Win-win for all meant million dollar payday for the victim, and a cop unfit for duty off the streets...that's the win-win I was referring to...

[FantasticDan]

To you and the reply above you...
Win-win for all meant million dollar payday for the victim, and a cop unfit for duty off the streets...that's the win-win I was referring to...KMG-365! ;)