Be Bullish, 9 year old warrior at 995k lifetime.

[Stillriledup]

His next start, if he finishes 1st or 2nd, will probably vault him over the 1 million mark in what will be his 84th lifetime start.

He was claimed today by Mike Repole for 16k.

Be Bullish, the backbone of the sport. A shout out to a gallant warrior!

[EMD4ME]

His next start, if he finishes 1st or 2nd, will probably vault him over the 1 million mark in what will be his 84th lifetime start.

He was claimed today by Mike Repole for 16k.

Be Bullish, the backbone of the sport. A shout out to a gallant warrior!

Thank god he was claimed off of that blankety blank. Hopefully repole finds him a home.....

[jk3521]

The "take him,please " sign has been out for a while.
Jacobson has been probably scared (Blank)less for a while that the horse would break down on his watch and it would be hell to pay for him! I'm sure you could hear a loud sigh of relief coming from the barn after the race :)

[cj]

Thank god he was claimed off of that blankety blank. Hopefully repole finds him a home.....

Agree 100%. It is a shame others have to basically pay off Jacobson to do the right thing.

[thaskalos]

Agree 100%. It is a shame others have to basically pay off Jacobson to do the right thing.

And then Pandy corrects me when I say that Jacobson is garbage.

[cj]

And then Pandy corrects me when I say that Jacobson is garbage.

We all have our opinions. I judge Jacobson on what I see happen to many horses in his charge. I hear how great he treats them when in his barn, and that could very well be true. But they eventually drop, and drop, and drop, until they wind up at Suffolk or some other track running for 4k in a race for horses that haven't run in a year. Lots of ugly stories develop from there.

Call me a sap, but I think horse like Be Bullish deserve better treatment than that. All horses do, but particularly ones that have been warriors and won a lot of money like he has.

[Stillriledup]

Romancing the Gold dropped from NY 20/25s to Suffolk 4s yesterday, was off at 6-5, got the lead and stopped in the lane.

[cutchemist42]

I would have hated being a regular Suffolk handicapper dealing with the intentions of Jacobsen droppers......then again Im sure none had good odds so maybe a play against them is the default play.

[nijinski]

Good news going around. Cayambe was plucked from the bottom ranks
and goes back to a California rescue at age 10 thanks to his breeder Geri Forrester and others including Maggie Moss .

[EMD4ME]

Does anyone know what Repole will do with Be bullish?

[nijinski]

Does anyone know what Repole will do with Be bullish?

Tweets say he will evaluate him , then decide .

He's a courageous horse but obviously looks to stay at lower levels .
Pressure is on , hopefully retires from racing .

[EMD4ME]

He's a warrior. He deserves to retire. It amazes me he ran so well and never really learned to change leads in the lane. Was always on the wrong lead it seemed. Maybe it was a physical ailment he just ran through.... tough horse either way

[Stillriledup]

He's a warrior. He deserves to retire. It amazes me he ran so well and never really learned to change leads in the lane. Was always on the wrong lead it seemed. Maybe it was a physical ailment he just ran through.... tough horse either way

I saw Bullish on the workout tab, a slow 4F work a week or so ago.

[EMD4ME]

That's not good.....DJ will get him killed, clock is ticking if DJ is in control.

[Stillriledup]

That's not good.....DJ will get him killed, clock is ticking if DJ is in control.

I think he was claimed by Repole so, as far as i know, Repole still owns the horse, i'm not sure who's training him at the moment.

[Rise Over Run]

Not to defend DJ, but his horses never work fast in the AM. But that's beside the point here because DJ hasn't trained him since the September claim by Repole, with Bruce Levine listed as the claiming trainer. Not sure who officially trained him while BL served his 21 day suspension through mid November.

[EMD4ME]

I think he was claimed by Repole so, as far as i know, Repole still owns the horse, i'm not sure who's training him at the moment.

My fault... didn't read :bang: :bang: and didn't remember that he was with the Repole's when I wrote that.

[Stillriledup]

Grening shoutout to the "Bull" a handful of tweets from the top.

https://twitter.com/drfgrening

[nijinski]

I know , he came in 2nd last time out .

Want to wish him a safe trip on Wednesday ! TO A RETIREMENT FARM !

[Stillriledup]

Oio0Zxe_IIA

[nijinski]

Oio0Zxe_IIA

Thanks for Video , a nice victory and memory .

and now stepping up from 16 to 20 cl . Up for grabs . It's time , he'll

be 10 very shortly .

[Stillriledup]

Thanks N.

If he hits the board, he's a millionaire, amazing achievement.

Most times i just root for my own bets and rarely just root for a horse, but i'll be rooting for the Bull first and foremost to make it home safe, and secondly to race his race and get that million.

Track figures to be sloppy, i actually hope he scratches and waits for another day, dont want to see him racing on a wet track, but hopefully it will all work out ok.

[Robert Fischer]

I know , he came in 2nd last time out .

Want to wish him a safe trip on Wednesday ! TO A RETIREMENT FARM !
He deserves it.
Sooner or later for sure.

I read once that some of these type of horses have a physically notable problem that looks bad but may or may not be as bad as it looks.
Once they get going, they get run over and over, raking in the cash with the trainer plays "Beat Me Or Buy Me", until it gets claimed and/or it can't continue doing well Sometimes those physical conditions get referred to as a "License To Steal".
- And yes, sometimes they make there money off the horse, and decide to get out while the getting is good. But I still don't like what that does to the horses, their health and futures.

Horses get taken advantage of far worse than some of us working schlubs. They wake money for somebody, then get claimed and need to make money for somebody else, it continues on, until the last group can't make money for anyone any more, and then how is the horse and his physical condition, and where does it go and what does it do?
-The old, "Oh Yeah, well, what have You done for Me?"

I thought this was a great post from the other thread.

It does seem like a ponzi scheme of sorts, where the next trainer is trying to make one more profit off the horse, and on and on - until they can't.

It would be nice if there was some sort of insurance for a horse, so that if he were claimed, and found to be unsound, it would be easier to send him to the farm, rather than continue on that path in an already hard claiming business.

I don't know if it's realistic, but that's what I was trying to say in the other thread.
It's a tough game. Some of these trainers operate in this part of the game more than others, and they become the bad guy to some.
When a beloved horse like the old warrior Be Bullish has been around for years, and earned a lot of money and respect - we do get some media pressure to do right by the horse, - and that is a good thing.

Maybe there are some ideas that we could build into the system to protect both the horses and the trainers in this tough game?

[Stillriledup]

He deserves it.
Sooner or later for sure.



I thought this was a great post from the other thread.

It does seem like a ponzi scheme of sorts, where the next trainer is trying to make one more profit off the horse, and on and on - until they can't.

It would be nice if there was some sort of insurance for a horse, so that if he were claimed, and found to be unsound, it would be easier to send him to the farm, rather than continue on that path in an already hard claiming business.

I don't know if it's realistic, but that's what I was trying to say in the other thread.
It's a tough game. Some of these trainers operate in this part of the game more than others, and they become the bad guy to some.
When a beloved horse like the old warrior Be Bullish has been around for years, and earned a lot of money and respect - we do get some media pressure to do right by the horse, - and that is a good thing.

Maybe there are some ideas that we could build into the system to protect both the horses and the trainers in this tough game?

If you are running an unsound horse, aren't you the "bad guy"? Or, do you just enter as many as you can and if the track vet lets the horse race, you wash your hands of the entire thing?

you say its a "good thing" that there's pressure to do right by the horse, but why do trainers need pressure to do the right thing?

Jacobson isn't claiming problem horses to turn them out in the field and give them the time they need. Do we pat him on the back for running his barn like an assembly line "next man up" operation? Or would he be more praised for claiming old warrior types and giving them time in the field to freshen up, you know, do the right thing by the horse.

[Robert Fischer]

Don't ask me to play devil's advocate here SRU... This isn't ESPN First Take.

I simply say that if the market is active in a grey area, and the owner/trainers are left with both the choice of whether or not to partake, and then if things go unfortunately -whether or not to take a loss, that maybe we can explore options.


Be Bullish, the old Warrior won today for Bruce Levine and Mike Repole.

The win puts him in the Million Dollar Earner's club.

He was also claimed today for $20K by Drawing Away Stables, and David Jacobson.

[Stillriledup]

Don't ask me to play devil's advocate here SRU... This isn't ESPN First Take.

I simply say that if the market is active in a grey area, and the owner/trainers are left with both the choice of whether or not to partake, and then if things go unfortunately -whether or not to take a loss, that maybe we can explore options.


Be Bullish, the old Warrior won today for Bruce Levine and Mike Repole.

The win puts him in the Million Dollar Earner's club.

He was also claimed today for $20K by Drawing Away Stables, and David Jacobson.

I dont know much about devils advocacy, all i'm saying is that you seem to think its ok to not do right by the horse as long is its a "sound business decision".

Is that your position?

[Robert Fischer]

I dont know much about devils advocacy, all i'm saying is that you seem to think its ok to not do right by the horse as long is its a "sound business decision".

Is that your position?

No.
Certainly not.

My position is about providing light to the system. I'll have to add more later, daughter is coming home from school.

[Stillriledup]

No.
Certainly not.

My position is about providing light to the system. I'll have to add more later, daughter is coming home from school.

Thanks. I'd love to hear more.

[Robert Fischer]

I dont know much about devils advocacy, all i'm saying is that you seem to think its ok to not do right by the horse as long is its a "sound business decision".

Is that your position?
Thanks. I'd love to hear more.

That's the main idea.

Seeing and and understanding the way things work. Exploring the possibility that there could be some small improvements that would protect the horses, and change the incentives and risks for Owners/Trainers.

If someone sees something happening to a horse they love, and it doesn't feel right in their gut, - by all means speak up! I'm certainly not discouraging that.

It's 2014, and there's social media, and everyone has a smart phone in hand. This environment can be good for the horse. We saw in football that certain improvements regarding concussions were made. The system was looked at - And small improvements were made to protocol/rules - and Incentives were adjusted.

There's a lot that I don't know. I've never owned a horse, and I've never trained a horse. It's a hard business for both owner, trainer, and horse! I certainly am not saying that it's OK to not do right by the horse. Thanks.

[Stillriledup]

That's the main idea.

Seeing and and understanding the way things work. Exploring the possibility that there could be some small improvements that would protect the horses, and change the incentives and risks for Owners/Trainers.

If someone sees something happening to a horse they love, and it doesn't feel right in their gut, - by all means speak up! I'm certainly not discouraging that.

It's 2014, and there's social media, and everyone has a smart phone in hand. This environment can be good for the horse. We saw in football that certain improvements regarding concussions were made. The system was looked at - And small improvements were made to protocol/rules - and Incentives were adjusted.

There's a lot that I don't know. I've never owned a horse, and I've never trained a horse. It's a hard business for both owner, trainer, and horse! I certainly am not saying that it's OK to not do right by the horse. Thanks.

I agree.

I think the rules need to be changed to protect the animals more. None of this claim them for 50, run them for 10 and ship them to Finger Lakes or Suffolk. Also, tracks need to be aware that when horses break down, its not random "bad steps" there are some horses that need to be looked at harder, like the huge dropdowns and whatnut.

But, nobody is really looking harder, you enter and run and if you break down, well, it was probably a perfectly sound horse who just took a random bad step. That's how the tracks seem to view things.

[Stillriledup]

Ugh.

Look at the entries in the 7th race on Jan 3rd.

:bang:

[EMD4ME]

Ugh.

Look at the entries in the 7th race on Jan 3rd.

:bang:

I hope the bull comes out alive.... he had it easy last time out for Repole . Perfect stress free trip off a 2 horse duel. Opt N2X might make him over exert and get hurt for the demon. Oops ;) for David.

[Stillriledup]

I hope the bull comes out alive.... he had it easy last time out for Repole . Perfect stress free trip off a 2 horse duel. Opt N2X might make him over exert and get hurt for the demon. Oops ;) for David.

An old gamester like this tries REALLY hard, so what do you do? Put him in a race where he will have to extend himself to the bottom to get the win?

[Stillriledup]

Bullish in 2 mins at Aqu.

[Robert Fischer]

i like the 10 mine over matter


wow, easily.

[Robert Fischer]

Be Bullish had a great trip, but he also looked great physically today drawing off to win.

Any word if he was claimed?

[cj]

Be Bullish had a great trip, but he also looked great physically today drawing off to win.

Any word if he was claimed?

No, but the The Big Deluxe was.

[Stillriledup]

No, but the The Big Deluxe was.

Ex Parcells horse.

[kmac1470]

So Be Bullish romps and wins about $35K for his connections.

Yep...Jacobson is a complete buffoon

[cj]

So Be Bullish romps and wins about $35K for his connections.

Yep...Jacobson is a complete buffoon

Don't think anyone has ever said he was stupid.

[kmac1470]

Don't think anyone has ever said he was stupid.

I know cj, but I don't think certain guys on this board have any clue about running a claiming barn. Jacobson isn't a player on the stakes scene. He makes money for his owners by running claiming horses where they belong and where they can win. He also makes money by taking other trainer's horses who he feels are mismanaging their chances.

Sure, sentimentality says that Be Bullish should be turned out to a pasture somewhere but if he is still a healthy productive asset it makes sense to make all the dollars you can with him.

[Stillriledup]

I know cj, but I don't think certain guys on this board have any clue about running a claiming barn. Jacobson isn't a player on the stakes scene. He makes money for his owners by running claiming horses where they belong and where they can win. He also makes money by taking other trainer's horses who he feels are mismanaging their chances.

Sure, sentimentality says that Be Bullish should be turned out to a pasture somewhere but if he is still a healthy productive asset it makes sense to make all the dollars you can with him.

Its ok to make money, but these "healthy productive assets" go bad REAL fast.....and Jacobson hasn't been too great at knowing when the time has come....he races them till they literally and sometimes tragically cant race anymore. Is he not smart enough to know when a horse is "done"?

[VeryOldMan]

Sure, sentimentality says that Be Bullish should be turned out to a pasture somewhere but if he is still a healthy productive asset it makes sense to make all the dollars you can with him.
This is the issue with the sport - do we owe anything to these warriors?

Jacobson is a very canny judge of horseflesh. No question. Do we owe the underlying horses anything? That's the part that gets me.

[Stillriledup]

This is the issue with the sport - do we owe anything to these warriors?

Jacobson is a very canny judge of horseflesh. No question. Do we owe the underlying horses anything? That's the part that gets me.

K mac and a few others here suggesting its a business, so no, you race till you drop, if the horse falls in a heap and dies, oh well, too bad according to them.

[cj]

K mac and a few others here suggesting its a business, so no, you race till you drop, if the horse falls in a heap and dies, oh well, too bad according to them.

If a horse is sound at 10, I have no problem with them being raced. It is when they start to plunge and are trying to be dumped that it gets ugly.

[Robert Fischer]

K mac and a few others here suggesting its a business, so no, you race till you drop, if the horse falls in a heap and dies, oh well, too bad according to them.

You sure paint K Mac out to be a heartless bastard when you speak for him. I'm not sure that is what he is saying.

[Robert Fischer]

If a horse is sound at 10, I have no problem with them being raced. It is when they start to plunge and are trying to be dumped that it gets ugly.

I wish we had confidence that Racing, and Vet Exams would save a plunging horse with obvious physical issues from an over-zealous trainer.

We should ask questions such as whether past a certain age(8?), a horse should be scrutinized more by the veterinarians and the racing jurisdictions.

Do earnings come into play at all? Does an 8yo with a million in earnings in New York, deserve better than an 8yo with 100K in Louisiana?

Should ALL horses receive good vet exams and common sense safeguards? (regardless of age or popularity)

Is the claiming game as it now exists viable with such safeguards??


I don't know the answers.

[Stillriledup]

You sure paint K Mac out to be a heartless bastard when you speak for him. I'm not sure that is what he is saying.

Either your mindset is its a business, or its not always a business and you do right by the horse once in a while, even if it goes against sound business practices.

He seemed to be not only sticking up for Jacobson, but doing it in a passionate and in your face kind of way...almost as if he was Jacobson's relative or barn foreman. So, when you show that kind of passion, its hard for me to believe that even one inch of you cares about the welfare of the horses, as long as a smart business decision is made.

If he cares about the horses, would he be so passionate defending DJ?

Maybe he can clear up his feelings on this, but that's what i got out of it.

[Stillriledup]

I wish we had confidence that Racing, and Vet Exams would save a plunging horse with obvious physical issues from an over-zealous trainer.

We should ask questions such as whether past a certain age(8?), a horse should be scrutinized more by the veterinarians and the racing jurisdictions.

Do earnings come into play at all? Does an 8yo with a million in earnings in New York, deserve better than an 8yo with 100K in Louisiana?

Should ALL horses receive good vet exams and common sense safeguards? (regardless of age or popularity)

Is the claiming game as it now exists viable with such safeguards??


I don't know the answers.

Earnings and age don't matter, its the massive class drops that sound the alarm bells. If that old horse is going from 20 to 40, like Be Bullish today, maybe all is well. If a horse is claimed for 40 or 50 and shows up a few weeks later at Suffolk for 5k, that's probably the horse that should be more scrutinized.

[EMD4ME]

Proud of the bull today. Very proud. Hope he survives DJ

[Stillriledup]

Proud of the bull today. Very proud. Hope he survives DJ

Yeah, that was special, and gutty. Horses like this: backbone of the game. I'd hate to see an easily replaceable human, that the game wouldn't miss at all, putting an animal who the game WOULD miss in harms way. Lets hope he does the right thing, but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[kmac1470]

Let me try and set the record straight on my comments....

1) The closest I've been to Aqueduct was a weekend with my wife in Ottawa in November

2) I don't know David Jacobson and wouldn't know him if he walked up and kissed my ass....although I would probably remember him after that

3) I have been an owner and horseplayer on a B circuit for close to 40 years. I have had horses that you stop with and retire because the consequences of not doing so are too dire. I've had horses win after their ankles have been tapped and I've had them come back from their next race too sore to go on with. It isn't an exact science.

4) Go For Wand upset me...so did Waveland Avenue at Hollywood Park in 2008, and Night to Remember at Woodbine in 1997 and every other breakdown I've seen over the years

5) I do agree that if Be Bullish shows up in a $5,000 race somewhere that is not right. That wasn't the case today. By my observation he looked pretty happy doing what he was doing and he did it pretty easily. If he starts to go bad I hope there is a white knight standing by to take him. But I don't know how you can blame a trainer for winning $35,000 by open lengths because you are afraid that the old guy might take a bad step.

6) Moody Jolley said it best...This is not a game for people in short pants

[Stillriledup]

Let me try and set the record straight on my comments....

1) The closest I've been to Aqueduct was a weekend with my wife in Ottawa in November

2) I don't know David Jacobson and wouldn't know him if he walked up and kissed my ass....although I would probably remember him after that

3) I have been an owner and horseplayer on a B circuit for close to 40 years. I have had horses that you stop with and retire because the consequences of not doing so are too dire. I've had horses win after their ankles have been tapped and I've had them come back from their next race too sore to go on with. It isn't an exact science.

4) Go For Wand upset me...so did Waveland Avenue at Hollywood Park in 2008, and Night to Remember at Woodbine in 1997 and every other breakdown I've seen over the years

5) I do agree that if Be Bullish shows up in a $5,000 race somewhere that is not right. That wasn't the case today. By my observation he looked pretty happy doing what he was doing and he did it pretty easily. If he starts to go bad I hope there is a white knight standing by to take him. But I don't know how you can blame a trainer for winning $35,000 by open lengths because you are afraid that the old guy might take a bad step.

6) Moody Jolley said it best...This is not a game for people in short pants

Good post Mac.

We're not blaming him for winning, i think we're discussing the breakdowns and if some of them could have been avoided.
Also discussing at what point do you stop on the horse? We haven't seen Jacobson stop on too many horses, if any.

You say if Bullish shows up for 5k that's not right...but that's what we're essentially discussing with DJ, we are discussing the "showing up for 5" stuff, he's done a LOT of that in the last couple years.

[cutchemist42]

Yeah to me, this is not the typical DJ horse we hate, this is obviously a sound horse in respectable race that did not scream breakdown.

[SaratogaSteve]

Good post Mac.

We're not blaming him for winning, i think we're discussing the breakdowns and if some of them could have been avoided.
Also discussing at what point do you stop on the horse? We haven't seen Jacobson stop on too many horses, if any.

You say if Bullish shows up for 5k that's not right...but that's what we're essentially discussing with DJ, we are discussing the "showing up for 5" stuff, he's done a LOT of that in the last couple years.

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

[nijinski]

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

He dropped to 16,000 . He could well have ended up somewhere else .
That was the red flag many folks were concerned about for this veteran .
He looked good yesterday and I'm happy he's ok .

Still someday hope to see him in a new career , maybe a pony at the track .

[CryingForTheHorses]

This is the issue with the sport - do we owe anything to these warriors?

Jacobson is a very canny judge of horseflesh. No question. Do we owe the underlying horses anything? That's the part that gets me.

We owe it all to the warriors,If not for them,We wouldnt be talking about this.Warriors are very "special" horses who deserve the respect of making it thu the toughest test of time.I have had several of these guys and am humbled to have them in my barn.The 2 wonderful guys that I had ,I retired them at the first hint of them telling me,It was time.Sure we miss them but to know they went out in style and can run and live like a horse again in a field makes it all worth it....God Bless them all.

[VeryOldMan]

We owe it all to the warriors,If not for them,We wouldnt be talking about this.Warriors are very "special" horses who deserve the respect of making it thu the toughest test of time.I have had several of these guys and am humbled to have them in my barn.The 2 wonderful guys that I had ,I retired them at the first hint of them telling me,It was time.Sure we miss them but to know they went out in style and can run and live like a horse again in a field makes it all worth it....God Bless them all.
Great post -thanks for the response. A big amen from here.

[Stillriledup]

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

Plenty of DJ horses showed up at Suffolk, Parx, Monmouth, etc for 5k, why would you say "not today not ever"? Unless you own the horse, you can't say what is going to happen. As far as armchair vets go, nobody here is professing to be a vet, you don't have to be a genius to see that a horse who was running for big money in NY (not Be Bullish Specifically of course) and now he's in for 5k at Suffolk is there for a reason and the reason isnt that he's in "peak form". That has nothing to do with "armchair vets".

[Rise Over Run]

Be Bullish is nominated to defend his 2014 win in next Sunday's (1/18) Hollie Hughes for NY Breds. $100k purse.

This is like the DJ Fairy Tale. He runs everything out of him and finally drops to the $16k level where Repole jumps in out of the goodness of his heart to claim the old warrior. Repole and company find out he's still sound and a runner, just needs some R&R time. After the R&R Repole and co run him for $20k and win, and somehow DJ is there to pick him back up. He wins at $40k for DJ (no claims) and will likely be one of the favorites to win the Hollie Hughes, yet again.

I'm sure he has dreams about claims working out like this all the time. :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

Be Bullish is nominated to defend his 2014 win in next Sunday's (1/18) Hollie Hughes for NY Breds. $100k purse.

This is like the DJ Fairy Tale. He runs everything out of him and finally drops to the $16k level where Repole jumps in out of the goodness of his heart to claim the old warrior. Repole and company find out he's still sound and a runner, just needs some R&R time. After the R&R Repole and co run him for $20k and win, and somehow DJ is there to pick him back up. He wins at $40k for DJ (no claims) and will likely be one of the favorites to win the Hollie Hughes, yet again.

I'm sure he has dreams about this all the time. :lol: :lol:

He is a warrior, but he's long in the tooth now, and running him at a much higher class level won't help things.

All the soundness and smart business decisions aside, what most of want to know is this.

Will there be a happy ending for Be Bullish, or will the ending not be as happy.

Hopefully the Be Bullish story ends the right way.

[Rise Over Run]

He is a warrior, but he's long in the tooth now, and running him at a much higher class level won't help things.

Not to sound like a DJ apologist. But exactly how much less "long in the tooth" was he last year when entered in and winning the Hollie Hughes?

[Stillriledup]

Not to sound like a DJ apologist. But exactly how much less "long in the tooth" was he last year when entered in and winning the Hollie Hughes?

He's either going to be retired at some point or he's not. At this point, it seems that the ball is in Jacobson's court. Like i said, hopefully this has a happy ending.

[westny]

Not to sound like a DJ apologist. But exactly how much less "long in the tooth" was he last year when entered in and winning the Hollie Hughes?

Well, Be Bullish has 12 more races on his 10 yr old legs than he did last year at this time and 180k more $$$. Gotta squeeze every dollar out of him. His races last year were like the Holly Hughes and 60k Alw races...tough competition.

The constant concussive pounding on legs is not good. Eventually,it catches
up to horses...an''occupational hazard' The 'bad step' excuse is just that. M :ThmbDown: ost horses that break-down have damaged legs, micro-fractures, worn out joints and legs.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/88143/ky-necropsy-program-disproves-bad-step-myth

Be Bullish is likely on the sasme path as Saginaw another DJ 'warrior' :ThmbDown: 'sound as a dollar' until he wasn't and died on the track.

[Robert Fischer]

Commodore Way is entered for $5k claiming Friday.
He's 30-1 ml with the bug boy up.

a little comparison to Be Bullish:

Be Bullish 10 year old warrior:
13 starts since turning 9yo.
(4wins 4seconds 2thirds)(10/13 ITM)
last three starts: 2nd-1st-1st.
85 starts career.

Commodore Way 11yo warrior:
22 starts since turning 9yo.
(3wins 3seconds 4thirds) (10/22 ITM).
last three starts 4th-5th-9th.
84 career starts.


Should Commodore Way still be racing?
Is he thought of in the same negative light as Be Bullish?
Does the fact that he is no longer competitive at the lowest classes make him worse than Be Bullish?
Is Be Bullish a worse situation than Commodore Way because Be Bullish has earned his retirement with the multiple stakes wins and the million dollar mark?

Any opinions?

[Rise Over Run]

Again, not to sound like a DJ apologist, but how much blood would be on Repole's hands if something happened? Wasn't his intent to retire the horse when he claimed him for $16k? Why bother returning him for the $20k?

[westny]

[QUOTE=Rise Over Run]Again, not to sound like a DJ apologist, but how much blood would be on Repole's hands if something happened? Wasn't his intent to retire the horse when he claimed him for $16k? Why bother returning him for the $20k?[/QUOTE

it was 'assumed' via facebook/twitter (never in print anywhere) that Repole claimed Be Bullish to 'retire him. Obviously, that wasn't Repole's intent or something changed Repole's mind and he entered him in a claiming race for DJ
to reclaim.

And yes, Repole has blood on his hands if Be Bullish breaksdown some where along the line.

[westny]

Commodore Way is entered for $5k claiming Friday.
He's 30-1 ml with the bug boy up.

a little comparison to Be Bullish:

Be Bullish 10 year old warrior:
13 starts since turning 9yo.
(4wins 4seconds 2thirds)(10/13 ITM)
last three starts: 2nd-1st-1st.
85 starts career.

Commodore Way 11yo warrior:
22 starts since turning 9yo.
(3wins 3seconds 4thirds) (10/22 ITM).
last three starts 4th-5th-9th.
84 career starts.


Should Commodore Way still be racing?
Is he thought of in the same negative light as Be Bullish?
Does the fact that he is no longer competitive at the lowest classes make him worse than Be Bullish?
Is Be Bullish a worse situation than Commodore Way because Be Bullish has earned his retirement with the multiple stakes wins and the million dollar mark?

Any opinions?

I ONLY follow NYRA racing. i no nothing about Commodore Way...his track...trainer...record. Zip. no comment. Be Bullish i have followed for years and am familiar with DJ's modis operandi... that does not favor a successful retirement for Be Bullish by DJ.

[Robert Fischer]

Commodore Way 11yo warrior:
22 starts since turning 9yo.
(3wins 3seconds 4thirds) (10/22 ITM).
last three starts 4th-5th-9th.
84 career starts.
finished3rd today at Delta race6 14-1 paid I think $6 to show.

[rastajenk]

And then there is the great Eagle Time (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=4497823&registry=T), who won twice at age 12, twice at 13, and two times in five starts at age 14! At low-level claiming races. Check out his history: some starts in graded stakes, some handicap wins, some allowance. Nobody was wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth about him running at an advanced age. Just because a horse is a little older and has been in tougher company doesn't mean he's a candidate for the winch and ambulance.

[westny]

[QUOTE=rastajenk]And then there is the great Eagle Time (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=4497823&registry=T), who won twice at age 12, twice at 13, and two times in five starts at age 14! At low-level claiming races. Check out his history: some starts in graded stakes, some handicap wins, some allowance. Nobody was wringing their hands or gnashing their teeth about him running at an advanced age. Just because a horse is a little older and has been in tougher company doesn't mean he's a candidate for the winch and ambulance.[/QUOTE

Not same comparison. Eagle raced 4/5 times in his final years and made 1,000 in purses those years or less. Be Bullish raced 12 times last year and made 150k in 2014 to add to 995k and 85 races

if you can't understand that 5 races in some 3k claiming race at a podunk track in a year or two puts the horse under the same pressure as
12 races on the top circuit in the country in the same year... then the discussion is over. :sleeping:

[nijinski]

Entered tomorrow , Belmont for $12,500 .

" Beyond the Roses Equine Rescue " is trying to raise funds to retire him .
Not an easy amount to raise .

[PaceAdvantage]

" Beyond the Roses Equine Rescue " is trying to raise funds to retire him .
Not an easy amount to raise .What a terrible endorsement for this sport, don't you think?

A group is trying to raise money to STOP this horse from racing. Either they are misguided to the hilt, or this sport is in dire, dire trouble...

[cj]

What a terrible endorsement for this sport, don't you think?

A group is trying to raise money to STOP this horse from racing. Either they are misguided to the hilt, or this sport is in dire, dire trouble...

There are plenty of horses that should be retired that aren't, but doesn't seem like Be Bullish is one of them.

[ReplayRandall]

What a terrible endorsement for this sport, don't you think?

A group is trying to raise money to STOP this horse from racing. Either they are misguided to the hilt, or this sport is in dire, dire trouble...
We're not talking about a hopeless 30-1 LS, we're talking about a horse who is the M/L Fav. at 9-5.....Trainer DJ not a person I respect either. At what age is the line drawn for a horse to retire who's won almost $1 Mil, does it matter or is this an unanswerable question?

[nijinski]

What a terrible endorsement for this sport, don't you think?

A group is trying to raise money to STOP this horse from racing. Either they are misguided to the hilt, or this sport is in dire, dire trouble...

I agree it's an embarrassment for the sport and something Belmont doesn't
need .
I assume since BTR plucks many from horrific auctions , some who were
high earners once , they look at horses like BB as a .candidate too .

Somehow for me , I don't like to see them getting passed around at age
10 .But on the other hand and at this point BB might just be a sound
warrior . I try to trust in the vetting . Last week was tough at Churchill though .

[nijinski]

There are plenty of horses that should be retired that aren't, but doesn't seem like Be Bullish is one of them.

I was just posting about that . He just might be a sound one .

[ReplayRandall]

Good News, Be Bullish scratched out of BEL- 2nd......

[Grits]

Good News, Be Bullish scratched out of BEL- 2nd......

On this day, maybe, social media was a factor..

[cj]

There are plenty of horses that should be retired that aren't, but doesn't seem like Be Bullish is one of them.

When I posted this, I didn't realize he had been entered for 12k.

[cj]

Vet scratch.

[ReplayRandall]

Vet's List- Be Bullish Jacobson, David I05330 05/06/2015 05/16/2015 R-05/06/2015 Injured

[cutchemist42]

I agree it's an embarrassment for the sport and something Belmont doesn't
need .
I assume since BTR plucks many from horrific auctions , some who were
high earners once , they look at horses like BB as a .candidate too .

Somehow for me , I don't like to see them getting passed around at age
10 .But on the other hand and at this point BB might just be a sound
warrior . I try to trust in the vetting . Last week was tough at Churchill though .

I didnt follow CD that much leading up to the Derby, was it bad?

[nijinski]

I didnt follow CD that much leading up to the Derby, was it bad?

It's all good now Free World was purchased after his cl race and retired .
He's lame but he's with good people now and will get the rehab he needs .

[Rise Over Run]

Entered in Sunday's 3rd at Belmont for $16k.

[Stillriledup]

Entered in Sunday's 3rd at Belmont for $16k.

at 6-5 ML off an "injured" scratch. Interesting.

[Stillriledup]

Vet's List- Be Bullish Jacobson, David I05330 05/06/2015 05/16/2015 R-05/06/2015 Injured

So, injured scratch and no published workout since? Don't vets list horses have to work before running?

[westny]

So, injured scratch and no published workout since? Don't vets list horses have to work before running?

DJ gets "special treatment" from NYRA because he always fills their cheap claiming races one or two horses.

[Stillriledup]

DJ gets "special treatment" from NYRA because he always fills their cheap claiming races with two or three horses and then only runs one.

ftfy. ;)

[affirmedny]

claimed by Repole and retired off win according to Grening on twitter

[ILovetheInner]

Much praise, thanks and appreciation for Repole.

[SG4]

Here's something I don't understand - Repole claimed Be Bullish last September for 16k when he was coming off 2 subpar efforts, was the intention to retire him after that race? Either way, the day he was claimed Be Bullish ran a nice race & was subsequently brought back to the races in December for a 20k tag where he was reclaimed by Jacobson. Now Be Bullish looks razor sharp, has won 4 in a row & by my eye I thought he looked fantastic in the paddock, so why the decision to retire him now? He's been a solid horse & fan favorite & I'm happy to see him well taken care of in retirement, but why now particularly?

I still remember having read this article in 2007 before he even ran, so I was waiting with anticipation to see his debut, hard to believe it's been 8 years of racing since.

http://www.drf.com/news/travers-gets-tiz-wonderful-instead-curlin

[nijinski]

claimed by Repole and retired off win according to Grening on twitter

The offer was refused 2 wks ago . It made more sense , business wise
for connections to get purse money and now a bigger claim price .

I believe he'll be going to Old Friends , who knows , if he gets bored
maybe he'll show up one day as a stable pony , either way Happy
Retirement to Be Bullish .

[nijinski]

Here's something I don't understand - Repole claimed Be Bullish last September for 16k when he was coming off 2 subpar efforts, was the intention to retire him after that race? Either way, the day he was claimed Be Bullish ran a nice race & was subsequently brought back to the races in December for a 20k tag where he was reclaimed by Jacobson. Now Be Bullish looks razor sharp, has won 4 in a row & by my eye I thought he looked fantastic in the paddock, so why the decision to retire him now? He's been a solid horse & fan favorite & I'm happy to see him well taken care of in retirement, but why now particularly?

I still remember having read this article in 2007 before he even ran, so I was waiting with anticipation to see his debut, hard to believe it's been 8 years of racing since.

http://www.drf.com/news/travers-gets-tiz-wonderful-instead-curlin

When he dropped to 12,500 other prominent trainers in NY began
listening to the folks that were raising funds . They didn't want to see
him end up one day out of town .with a 5000 tag running at age 11 .
That does happen .

[cj]

When he dropped to 12,500 other prominent trainers in NY began
listening to the folks that were raising funds . They didn't want to see
him end up one day out of town .with a 5000 tag running at age 11 .
That does happen .

He didn't look good nearing the wire and after the finish to me today.

[nijinski]

He didn't look good nearing the wire and after the finish to me today.

Thanks CJ .

Big thanks to the trainers and owners in NY who are donating a %
of their wins to aftercare and for trainers like Contessa among them
for being involved . They all rock !

[Stillriledup]

He didn't look good nearing the wire and after the finish to me today.

Because he was retired today, that was the "right time" to retire him. Interestingly enough, it wasn't Jacobson who did the retiring, he treated this horse like any other horse, just a number in the assembly line.

Amazing that a grinder and warrior like Be Bullish can get to 10 years old with almost 1.1 mil in the bank the hard way and this guy still had him in harms way and like you say, looking shaky at the wire, it could have ended badly and this guy wouldnt' have cared, there would have been some small fake outrage and it would have been business as usual for this barn after we forgot about it.

Maybe he can go take the money and buy some more 'on the cheap' horses from Baffert now with the 16k.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because he was retired today, that was the "right time" to retire him. Interestingly enough, it wasn't Jacobson who did the retiring, he treated this horse like any other horse, just a number in the assembly line.

Amazing that a grinder and warrior like Be Bullish can get to 10 years old with almost 1.1 mil in the bank the hard way and this guy still had him in harms way and like you say, looking shaky at the wire, it could have ended badly and this guy wouldnt' have cared, there would have been some small fake outrage and it would have been business as usual for this barn after we forgot about it.

Maybe he can go take the money and buy some more 'on the cheap' horses from Baffert now with the 16k.Something tells me you don't really care much either...and we all know you're all about fake outrage... :lol:

[classhandicapper]

I'm always in favor of preemptive retirement for older horses that are declining due to an accumulation of wear and tear.

I think it's great that Repole has the extra cash, heart, and desire to do the right thing by these old timers.

[PaceAdvantage]

You know what I think?

If they can pass a vet exam, they can run. I don't care how old they are, how much they've run, how much money they've earned...I say let an owner do whatever he wants with his horse, as long as he is sound.

It isn't up to you, me or anyone else to decide what is best for someone else's racehorse...someone else's property...it's just wrong to have it any other way.

And if we can't trust vets to do their job, then THAT'S where the outrage and online campaigns should be pointing their arrows.

[classhandicapper]

It isn't up to you, me or anyone else to decide what is best for someone else's racehorse...someone else's property...it's just wrong to have it any other way.

I don't disagree with you as a legal matter.

But I think way too many horses are run into the ground and put at greater risk of a breakdown. IMO the current standard for "sound enough to run" is not strict enough, not when you can use drugs and various procedures on them so they can get past the vet.

I wish I had breakdown data for older horses that have been dropping sharply down the class ladder vs. young and improving horses. It would be easier to make the case one way or the other. Intuitively though, I know which way I'd bet.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Here's something I don't understand - Repole claimed Be Bullish last September for 16k when he was coming off 2 subpar efforts, was the intention to retire him after that race? Either way, the day he was claimed Be Bullish ran a nice race & was subsequently brought back to the races in December for a 20k tag where he was reclaimed by Jacobson. Now Be Bullish looks razor sharp, has won 4 in a row & by my eye I thought he looked fantastic in the paddock, so why the decision to retire him now? He's been a solid horse & fan favorite & I'm happy to see him well taken care of in retirement, but why now particularly?

I still remember having read this article in 2007 before he even ran, so I was waiting with anticipation to see his debut, hard to believe it's been 8 years of racing since.

http://www.drf.com/news/travers-gets-tiz-wonderful-instead-curlin




Why didnt Repole retire him after he claimed him in September? Everyone is on Jacobsons ass for not retiring him and running the horse as a business. But yet Repole claims him and runs him. So Jacobson doesnt get a free pass yet Repole gets a free pass for reclaiming him and retiring him. Repole did the same thing as Jacobson. Claimed him and ran him and won with the horse.

[Stillriledup]

Why didnt Repole retire him after he claimed him in September? Everyone is on Jacobsons ass for not retiring him and running the horse as a business. But yet Repole claims him and runs him. So Jacobson doesnt get a free pass yet Repole gets a free pass for reclaiming him and retiring him. Repole did the same thing as Jacobson. Claimed him and ran him and won with the horse.

But Jacobson does this with ALL his horses, so that's why there's a different standard.

[Stillriledup]

You know what I think?

If they can pass a vet exam, they can run. I don't care how old they are, how much they've run, how much money they've earned...I say let an owner do whatever he wants with his horse, as long as he is sound.

It isn't up to you, me or anyone else to decide what is best for someone else's racehorse...someone else's property...it's just wrong to have it any other way.

And if we can't trust vets to do their job, then THAT'S where the outrage and online campaigns should be pointing their arrows.

Isn't it better to have two lines of defense though? Wouldn't more horses be in safer positions if trainers weren't entering horses like this in the first place?

Why put all the onus on the vet when we know that trainers in the past have tried to get unsound horses past the vet so maybe they can get claimed and be someone else's problem?

[nijinski]

Why didnt Repole retire him after he claimed him in September? Everyone is on Jacobsons ass for not retiring him and running the horse as a business. But yet Repole claims him and runs him. So Jacobson doesnt get a free pass yet Repole gets a free pass for reclaiming him and retiring him. Repole did the same thing as Jacobson. Claimed him and ran him and won with the horse.

Repole did get a public spanking .

[Donttellmeshowme]

Repole did get a public spanking .





Yea but now they think hes God

[Stillriledup]

Yea but now they think hes God

Anyone who makes billions selling cheese doodles and purple water is a god in my book. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

You know what I think?

If they can pass a vet exam, they can run. I don't care how old they are, how much they've run, how much money they've earned...I say let an owner do whatever he wants with his horse, as long as he is sound.

It isn't up to you, me or anyone else to decide what is best for someone else's racehorse...someone else's property...it's just wrong to have it any other way.

And if we can't trust vets to do their job, then THAT'S where the outrage and online campaigns should be pointing their arrows.

This is true.

The vets are not entirely independent however.
We have the winter meet, where there is pressure to approve all but the wounded.
Then it's tougher to suddenly deny those horses once the meet moves back to Belmont.
Even at Belmont, they choose to run a bunch of calendar days while having a good share of smaller fields.

Incentives...


However, yes - We have a system in place. It makes sense to start with that system rather than this 'shame' system we, 'the public' have had to invent(whether logical/justified or not). Could be replaced by better use of the real system and better use of the media informing/reminding us from time-to-time that these horses are in fact passing vet exams and very sound and healthy to run.

Then there's also the side debate about horses that have 'earned' their retirement. Whether or not a 10year old horse that has earned A Million or half a Million in NY has 'earned' his retirement vs. a 10yo horse in Louisiana with the same number of starts and 90K in career earnings is certainly debatable. I don't want to go down that road with any vigor, as I think the heart is in the right place for the most part. :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

This is true.

The vets are not entirely independent however.
We have the winter meet, where there is pressure to approve all but the wounded.
Then it's tougher to suddenly deny those horses once the meet moves back to Belmont.
Even at Belmont, they choose to run a bunch of calendar days while having a good share of smaller fields.

Incentives...


However, yes - We have a system in place. It makes sense to start with that system rather than this 'shame' system we, 'the public' have had to invent(whether logical/justified or not). Could be replaced by better use of the real system and better use of the media informing/reminding us from time-to-time that these horses are in fact passing vet exams and very sound and healthy to run.

Then there's also the side debate about horses that have 'earned' their retirement. Whether or not a 10year old horse that has earned A Million or half a Million in NY has 'earned' his retirement vs. a 10yo horse in Louisiana with the same number of starts and 90K in career earnings is certainly debatable. I don't want to go down that road with any vigor, as I think the heart is in the right place for the most part. :ThmbUp:


Flip Flop is running in a few mins at Mountain, he's a 10 yo with 92 lifetime starts, but only 1/5th of the money of Be Bullish. I think if there's a difference between the 2 is that Bullish was racing at a major circuit, vs much better competition with much stronger and talented jocks, so he would be asked to extend himself more than say Flip Flop will, with the weaker jocks. Its a small difference, maybe insignificant, but that's all i got at the moment.

The biggest problem with the 'real system' is that for every entry that makes it past the vet, the more money the track makes as there is a lot of statistical proof that bigger fields beget bigger handle.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Flip Flop is running in a few mins at Mountain, he's a 10 yo with 92 lifetime starts, but only 1/5th of the money of Be Bullish. I think if there's a difference between the 2 is that Bullish was racing at a major circuit, vs much better competition with much stronger and talented jocks, so he would be asked to extend himself more than say Flip Flop will, with the weaker jocks. Its a small difference, maybe insignificant, but that's all i got at the moment.

The biggest problem with the 'real system' is that for every entry that makes it past the vet, the more money the track makes as there is a lot of statistical proof that bigger fields beget bigger handle.





Yep if they were crying about Be Bullish they should be crying about Flip Flop

[PaceAdvantage]

Then institute a mandatory cutoff age for racing, or lower whatever is currently in place.

This whole "crocodile tears" on a selective basis is off-putting.

I don't know why people get all upset when an older horse who has won some money is suddenly toiling in bottom level claimers. If the horse is sound, but slow, so what?

Ya'll realize there are plenty of 3 and 4yos being entered to run with plenty of physical problems...right? You do know this...but for some reason, ya'll think the older ones are the time bombs...

Like I said...let the vets decide, not you and me.

[cj]

Then institute a mandatory cutoff age for racing, or lower whatever is currently in place.

This whole "crocodile tears" on a selective basis is off-putting.

I don't know why people get all upset when an older horse who has won some money is suddenly toiling in bottom level claimers. If the horse is sound, but slow, so what?

Ya'll realize there are plenty of 3 and 4yos being entered to run with plenty of physical problems...right? You do know this...but for some reason, ya'll think the older ones are the time bombs...

Like I said...let the vets decide, not you and me.

I like seeing these old guys race, but I don't not like seeing them with David Jacobson. It usually ends with horses losing repeatedly for 4k at Penn National or Suffolk or Laurel in the hands of a trainer with no connection to the "good days" and just trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of him.

[Stillriledup]

.

There are a lot of horses who appear "done" and then some of the more unscrupulous keep racing them until they die on the track, it has to be one of the two in a high percentage of the cases, its not going to end pretty unless someone makes a decision that this horse is "done" and is a race or two away from certain death.

A horse like Be Bullish could have just kept racing and racing and racing, but do you think he would have gotten to the point where he would have raced well up until his mandatory retirement age? That rarely happens, sound or not.

Its not an exact science, you're completely right that some younger horses have problems and break down, its not really an age thing, some horses are just predisposed thru poor conformation they had since birth to not be able to last long enough to see a winners circle visit as a 10 year old.

People might say "why not keep racing Be Bullish, he won, didn't he"? and the answer to that is in a post you put up on the day he last raced, you commented that he didn't look so wonderful at the wire. Do you think he was 100 pct sound before the race and just happened to look shaky at the end? Its called being on your 'last legs' and while he might have been sound enough to race, the end was near.

When Jacobson or anyone else ships a horse from a NYRA track to Finger Lakes, Suffolk or Laurel and races them at a bottom claiming level there's usually a reason and the reason isn't that the horse is 100 pct sound and has a great future ahead of him. You're right when you say there needs to be a better check and or balance by the on track vets and there needs to be some accountability with the race office to not take the entry in the first place.

If you are the race secretary at a minor track and you see a horse who was running for 20 or 30k at a major NY track and now shows up at your barn for 5k, why is that entry being accepted? The connections are essentially saying "the horse is done" and here you are (Fl, Suffolk, etc) accepting the entry and letting the horse race.

Plenty of blame to go around, tracks, racing offices and on track vets as these lower run tracks need to do a much better job at scrutinizing these large dropdowns shipping from major tracks.

[Sysonby]

This is a tough one. We had a horse at our track who only raced at that track, so about five months of the year. He'd run maybe four races during that period, usually at allowance level, sometimes at stakes level if the trainer thought he was in good form. He was almost always in the money and he won his fair share. They raced him like that to 14 years old and then retired him. In this case, he appeared to be in good care, not being asked to do more than he could and was still competitive and a fighter on the track.

I'm not sure about a flat rule, but maybe there could be more oversight once a horse passes a certain age. What the meaningful oversight would be, I'm not sure, maybe someone has some ideas.

[Stillriledup]

This is a tough one. We had a horse at our track who only raced at that track, so about five months of the year. He'd run maybe four races during that period, usually at allowance level, sometimes at stakes level if the trainer thought he was in good form. He was almost always in the money and he won his fair share. They raced him like that to 14 years old and then retired him. In this case, he appeared to be in good care, not being asked to do more than he could and was still competitive and a fighter on the track.

I'm not sure about a flat rule, but maybe there could be more oversight once a horse passes a certain age. What the meaningful oversight would be, I'm not sure, maybe someone has some ideas.

But was that horse racing consistently in the same class? He wasn't a 50k claimer and then a week later he was in for 5k, right?

I've found that age isn't as much of a factor as is the progression of the career and how the horse appears to race, gallop out and return to be unsaddled. Many times if you go back and watch the previous start before a horse has broken down in a race, its not pretty. I don't think there's anyone in racing who's watching every horse carefully and making sure that they're sound for their next start.

California instituted a new rule a few years ago about voiding claims and if a horse is 'off' in the hour or 2 after the race, the claim is voided and there are a LOT of voided claims yet, these voided horses are usually running back within normal timeframes, they don't seem to miss much time if any time at all, yet, they're being voided for unsoundness.

[Sysonby]

They never ran him in a claiming race, the owners were very fond of him and didn't want to take a chance on losing him. So he always ran at pretty much the allowance or minor stakes level and competed fairly well there right up to the end of his career. I don't think his performance started to go downhill, rather from what I heard the owners didn't want to take a chance that something might happen and thought he'd earned a retirement. It's not a typical story for horse racing I guess or maybe it is and we just don't hear about these as much as the ones that have a tragic end.

I remember I first became aware of him from a handicapping perspective. If you were boxing a tri, you had to include him, lol.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know why people get all upset when an older horse who has won some money is suddenly toiling in bottom level claimers. If the horse is sound, but slow, so what?



It's not a question of fast/slow, young/old, or bottom level.

The question is why was a horse that used to be faster getting slower and why are the owners so willing to drop him in class?

In many cases he's getting slower and dropping because of an accumulation of injuries, wear and tear etc... that has made him less sound and incapable of performing at the same level he used to.

IMO, some of these horses are getting past the vets because either the standards are too low, the horse is loaded with drugs or had procedures done that allow him to run through his pain (and probably increase the chances of a breakdown), or the economics of the sport are overwhelming sound decision making by the vets.

The age factor is a kind of intangible that adds to the desire to see these beat up horses (especially top quality older ones) retire gracefully much like we didn't want to see Muhammed Ali get his brains beaten out by Larry Holmes even though he was cleared to fight by the doctors (while his true friends were correctly screaming to not allow it).

There's probably not an easy solution, but running horses into the ground can't be good for the horses or perceptions about the sport.

[Stillriledup]

It's not a question of fast/slow, young/old, or bottom level.

The question is why was a horse that used to be faster getting slower and why are the owners so willing to drop him in class?

In many cases he's getting slower and dropping because of an accumulation of injuries, wear and tear etc... that has made him less sound and incapable of performing at the same level he used to.

IMO, some of these horses are getting past the vets because either the standards are too low, the horse is loaded with drugs or had procedures done that allow him to run through his pain (and probably increase the chances of a breakdown), or the economics of the sport are overwhelming sound decision making by the vets.

The age factor is a kind of intangible that adds to the desire to see these beat up horses (especially top quality older ones) retire gracefully much like we didn't want to see Muhammed Ali get his brains beaten out by Larry Holmes even though he was cleared to fight by the doctors (while his true friends were correctly screaming to not allow it).

There's probably not an easy solution, but running horses into the ground can't be good for the horses or perceptions about the sport.

Good post CH.

You touch on a good point and that is about a horse getting slower. I think age and just general wear and tear accumulate day by day, race by race, stride by stride, and i think there's a difference between a horse who gradually gets slower and a horse who has his claiming price cut from 50k to 5k in a short time span, when i see that, it screams "we have gotten drastically slower overnight" A 50k drop to 5k (or some other large drop) isn't a horse who's gradually getting slower. He got slower in a hurry.

As far as a few in here saying if they're sound they should run, but cheap claimers aren't really sound in general, if you contact a top claiming trainer at any track and ask him "i'm interested in claiming so and so and i want to know if you would claim him and train him" the trainer will say "ok ill call you back" and then they contact their "sources" to find out what's wrong with the horse, if anything, but sometimes they will call you back and say "stay away".

Economics are a problem with running inherently unsound horses, first of all, tracks make extra money with bigger fields, so they don't really gain financially to keep borderline horses on the shelf and with the owners, they want and need to run, a lot of times, the bills in a few month span might be worth more than the actual horse, they either have to run, or privately sell the horse they can't sit on the horse too long because its financially a bad bet to do so.

[Robert Fischer]

Flip Flop is running in a few mins at Mountain, he's a 10 yo with 92 lifetime starts, but only 1/5th of the money of Be Bullish. I think if there's a difference between the 2 is that Bullish was racing at a major circuit, vs much better competition with much stronger and talented jocks, so he would be asked to extend himself more than say Flip Flop will, with the weaker jocks. Its a small difference, maybe insignificant, but that's all i got at the moment.

The biggest problem with the 'real system' is that for every entry that makes it past the vet, the more money the track makes as there is a lot of statistical proof that bigger fields beget bigger handle.

that's right! :ThmbUp:

[lamboguy]

what an effort BULLISH has given us throughout the years. not only will we miss him, but he will miss his regular routine of being around a race track most of his life. it will take him some time to get acclimated to his new life style. i like what Repole did for this horse, he has showed his appreciation and maybe others will see what he did and follow in. and maybe at some point the New York times will finally write a good story of horse racing.

Mike Repole deserves 10 stars for what he just did and i can only hope for the best for him and all his horses.

[Donttellmeshowme]

what an effort BULLISH has given us throughout the years. not only will we miss him, but he will miss his regular routine of being around a race track most of his life. it will take him some time to get acclimated to his new life style. i like what Repole did for this horse, he has showed his appreciation and maybe others will see what he did and follow in. and maybe at some point the New York times will finally write a good story of horse racing.

Mike Repole deserves 10 stars for what he just did and i can only hope for the best for him and all his horses.





why didnt he retire him in September when he claimed him then?

[horses4courses]

why didnt he retire him in September when he claimed him then?

This horse thrived on racing for a long period.
That can't last forever, but they must have figured he was good to go.

[affirmedny]

why didnt he retire him in September when he claimed him then?

because he still was good enough to win FOUR more races

[PaceAdvantage]

It's not a question of fast/slow, young/old, or bottom level.

The question is why was a horse that used to be faster getting slower and why are the owners so willing to drop him in class?And you and I and every other Yenta on here is more qualified to make the decision compared to the owner/trainer/vet/state vet?

I don't think so...

[nijinski]

John Murrell owner and NY trainer Carl Domino just claimed
and retired the white mare " Rock N Cozy " after her 5/20 win
off of DJ .
It looks like both have a sentimental past tie with the mare . No
blame or hard feelings .


This from the TRF , Off Track Thoroughbred article.

Although trainer Jacobson has been criticized in some horse-welfare circles in the past, and just last year was absolved of wrongdoing in the case of another racehorse, detailed in this story in the Daily Racing Form, it was for the horse herself, and not who the trainer was, that Murrell and Domino made their move.

Rock N Cozy just wasn’t running as well as she once did, says Murrell, who notes that though she won her last race, the victory was due to poor competition more than anything.

[Donttellmeshowme]

This horse thrived on racing for a long period.
That can't last forever, but they must have figured he was good to go.




Incorrect its because Repole was greedy thats the answer.

[cordep17]

Incorrect its because Repole was greedy thats the answer.

The horse came back and won then rose in class...What you're saying here is no horse should ever reach a certain age and continue to race.

[Donttellmeshowme]

The horse came back and won then rose in class...What you're saying here is no horse should ever reach a certain age and continue to race.





What I'm trying to say is that everyone is praising Repole for claiming the horse and retiring him. Why didn't he retire him the 1st time he claimed him? He claimed him in September and waited 3 months to run him. Obvisiously the horse was crippled when he claimed him so why not just retire him in September? Because he wanted to try and get some of his money back off the claim knowing the horse was crippled. He's greedy.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Incorrect its because Repole was greedy thats the answer.

Your post reminds me of the saying: no good deed goes unpunished.

He claimed the horse off a convincing three-length victory, marking BB's fourth win in a row. If he was all about greed, the horse would still be racing. Instead, he's found a retirement home for the horse. In addition, he's provided solid financial support to t'bred retirement funds over time.

[Saratoga_Mike]

What I'm trying to say is that everyone is praising Repole for claiming the horse and retiring him. Why didn't he retire him the 1st time he claimed him? He claimed him in September and waited 3 months to run him. Obvisiously the horse was crippled when he claimed him so why not just retire him in September? Because he wanted to try and get some of his money back off the claim knowing the horse was crippled. He's greedy.

By your logic, he should retire every horse he claims.

[horses4courses]

Incorrect its because Repole was greedy thats the answer.

Try to follow along.
Note the words "thrived on racing"

Racehorses don't have an expiration date stamped to them.

[Donttellmeshowme]

By your logic, he should retire every horse he claims.





If you want to look at that way then yes. But this horse had problems and everyone knew it including Repole. Why did he wait 3 months to run the horse?

[Donttellmeshowme]

Try to follow along.
Note the words "thrived on racing"

Racehorses don't have an expiration date stamped to them.




No doubt you don't win 4 races in a row because you hate to race. All I'm saying is Repole should of retired him the 1st time but he was greedy. So now since he claimed him again and retired him we are praising greedy owners.

[cordep17]

The thing abut a crippled horse at a lower class is they aren't running to their potential....I'd bet Repole is kicking himself for not realizing what he had better before the small bump in class where he lost a horse that still had the potential to do really well...It's not as easy to profit through claiming by looking for a sound horse who's probably up against appropriate company.

[horses4courses]

http://www.brisnet.com/pictures/bebullish2-17.jpg

Be Bullish arrives at Old Friends Cabin Creek in New York

Be Bullish captured six stakes, including last year's Hollie Hughes, in his career and placed in 16 others (NYRA/Adam Coglianese Photography) Old Friends at Cabin Creek -- the New York satellite of Georgetown, Kentucky's Old Friends Thoroughbred Retirement Center -- announced the arrival of multiple stakes-winning millionaire Be Bullish (Pure Prize) on Thursday.
The New York-bred gelding, who turned 10 this year, celebrated his 19th win on May 17 when he won a $16,000 claiming race at Belmont Park. It was his 87th career start in his ninth season of racing.

Following his win Be Bullish was claimed by prominent owner Mike Repole, who purchased the horse with the sole intent of retiring him from racing.

New owner Repole noted that Be Bullish "has put in his time, he's going out on top, he's going out in the winner's circle. If every horse could have an ending like this, the sport would be in a much better place."

Be Bullish, who retires with $1,106,288 in earnings from an 87-19-26-14 career mark, will live out his post-racing days at Old Friends Cabin Creek near Saratoga, which is also home to Repole retiree Cool N' Collective.

"Our thanks to Mike Repole for giving this New York favorite the retirement he deserves," said JoAnn Pepper, owner and manager of Old Friends at Cabin Creek. "Be Bullish gave his all to racing. We're very grateful to have him, and we look forward to his all of his fans visiting him at the farm."

Old Friends at Cabin Creek is open for tours Saturdays from noon-3 p.m. (EDT). For more information, please visit their website at www.oldfriendsatcabincreek.com.

Old Friends is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit organization that cares for 150 retired racehorses. It's Dream Chase Farm, located in Georgetown, is open to tourists daily by appointment. For more information on tours or to make a donation, contact the main farm at 502-863-1775 or see their website at www.oldfriendsequine.org.

[nijinski]

Gotta get up there with some mints and carrots !

[Saratoga_Mike]

And you and I and every other Yenta on here is more qualified to make the decision compared to the owner/trainer/vet/state vet?

I don't think so...

If you have a horse with bad knees and you tap the horse pre-race (within the prescribed time frame), the vast majority of the time the state vet will have no idea there's an issue (from a physical inspection). A few years ago, a state vet at one track required to watch horses jog on the pavement pre-race. Even in that case, many horses slipped through the cracks. And that vet was very diligent.

As for the trainer and vet that regularly works on the horse, they know - totally agree with you.

[horses4courses]

Greg Jones ‏@WOOKIE318 1h1 hour ago
Be Bullish LOVING retirement! #BestPhotoEver
(Photo courtesy of Old Friends at Cabin Creek FB page)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHadZS7UEAAhl-1.jpg

[Stillriledup]

Great pic n find HFC.

Fantastic!

[nijinski]

Thanks H4C he looks great and good to see he's literally on a roll :)

[Zaf]

I took this photo July 2014 with my iPhone as he was leaving the paddock on his way to the race track to finish a game 2nd :jump:

[Zaf]

Look at the despair on all the faces in the photo, i don't get it, we are in Saratoga the happiest place on the planet :)

Z

[SaratogaSteve]

that's not despair about the Spa, that's them thinking "Oh great, another 10 posts from SRU at paceadvantage.com on how he knows better than the trainer and a happy horse"...

[Stillriledup]

that's not despair about the Spa, that's them thinking "Oh great, another 10 posts from SRU at paceadvantage.com on how he knows better than the trainer and a happy horse"...

20k posts is automatic posting HOF induction, their faces are showing anguish because they know it will be standing room only at my induction speech, theyre just dreading the traffic and crowds. ;)

[Donttellmeshowme]

Wasnt there a horse who won last nite at Penn who was 12 yrs old? So why no outcry over the connections who train and own this horse?

Be Bullish was only 9 and won 4 races in a row yet everyone was moaning about him still running.