Scottish referendum

[horses4courses]

Interesting how all the media is building this up as a close vote.
The bookies over there rate the chances of Scotland breaking
away from the UK at less than 25%. You can get at least 7-2.

Saw a poll on NBC news last night that said it's around 52-48%.
I trust the bookies more ;)

[GaryG]

This is a very emotional issue and many will vote with their hearts instead of their heads. Culloden Moor and Cumberland the butcher will not be forgotten. Interesting that the Jacobites had the support of French and Irish troops. If it passes there could be intensified feelings between the Irish and Ulster.

[horses4courses]

This is a very emotional issue and many will vote with their hearts instead of their heads. Culloden Moor and Cumberland the butcher will not be forgotten. Interesting that the Jacobites had the support of French and Irish troops. If it passes there could be intensified feelings between the Irish and Ulster.

True, but.....

The UK would have loved to have cut the ties with Ulster half a century ago.
Won't happen in our lifetime.

The only conceivable way that Ulster would ever aspire to uniting the island
is if the Republic became a strong economic power.
They actually came pretty close in the early 2000s with the growth of dotcom.
This did not hurt the peace process by any means, either. Then the bubble burst.

[jballscalls]

. Then the bubble burst.

Oh, so Blame Bush! :)

[horses4courses]

Oh, so Blame Bush! :)

Haha
Nope.
Can't pin this one on W.

Bankers?
Now, you're talkin....

[NJ Stinks]

I'm not sure what I'm hoping with today's vote in Scotland. I read an interesting article in the NY Post on Sunday by a Scottish guy who is voting yes to independence from the UK. I'll highlight some interesting stuff (to me, anyway) from the article down below and then post the link to the entire article.
_________________________

The trouble for many Scots — and this gets to the heart of why so many want independence — is that those values rarely seem to guide the governments we get lumbered with in London. In national, UK-wide elections, the Scots consistently vote for left-of-center policies, but very often (about half the time) we end up with right-wing governments in London. Scots have never forgotten how Margaret Thatcher imposed unpopular right-wing policies on Scotland for 12 years as prime minister.

When Labor’s Tony Blair became prime minister in 1997, he was at first immensely popular in Scotland — but then was seen to follow Thatcherite economic policies, and even worse, followed George W. Bush into a disastrous and illegal war in Iraq. It was he who gave Scotland its own parliament, with limited powers, but that only whetted the appetite for more.

Now we have a London government led by David Cameron, whose Conservative Party has only one MP (out of 59) in Scotland. Like Thatcher, he has imposed taxes that are universally detested here. Cameron did not dare to make a public appearance in Scotland during the referendum campaign. Never before has the rift between Scotland and the London “elite” seemed so wide.

For more and more of us, the only solution to this perennial problem is to take all power into our own hands — to have the right to elect a parliament and a government that will run the country as we ourselves choose. We look at small, highly successful countries like Denmark or Sweden and think, we would rather be like them — and could be.

Link: http://nypost.com/2014/09/13/why-i-want-an-independent-scotland/

[Tom]

Now we have a London government led by David Cameron, whose Conservative Party...... has imposed taxes that are universally detested here.

You have to love this guy, right?

[DJofSD]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29238890

[BlueShoe]

Culloden Moor and Cumberland the butcher will not be forgotten.
A battle fought in 1746 will be an influence in the voting? The Scots must have very, very long memories.

[reckless]

This vote may have more world-wide significance than meets the eye.

What is not getting full, unbiased coverage are two very significant reasons for this separation movement in the first place.

1--Scotland feels that their way of life, sovereignty, economic well being are being dictated by Great Britain, and London (the House of Commons) most definitely doesn't have their interests at heart.

It's no different, but not as extreme, obviously, here in the USA where Wash DC is far far FAR removed from what the citizens in the states want.

The Scots believe they contribute more money economically to the UK than what they receive in return. Who hasn't heard that kind of argument here as well?

2--I have read where a number of banks and financial institutions have threatened to leave Scotland if there is a 'yes' vote. What doesn't get discussed much is that many Scots feel that the financial problems there and throughout the UK can be blamed on those same banks and financial institutions that threaten to leave Scotland!

The other under reported aspect in this story is the threat that without the UK, Scotland's economy crumbles and that Scotland needs GB and the entire UK to survive. This may not be necessarily be so since Britain depends on the other UK countries for their economic survival more so than you think, with most of GB's good and services sold to Scotland and the other UK nations.

I am all for a YES vote tonight, if for nothing else than to stick it to GB and to that silly, ineffective weakling, David Cameron. I predict a Yes vote spells doom for Cameron personally, and the Tories in general.

[DJofSD]

This vote may have more world-wide significance than meets the eye.

What is not getting full, unbiased coverage are two very significant reasons for this separation movement in the first place.

1--Scotland feels that their way of life, sovereignty, economic well being are being dictated by Great Britain, and London (the House of Commons) most definitely doesn't have their interests at heart.

It's no different, but not as extreme, obviously, here in the USA where Wash DC is far far FAR removed from what the citizens in the states want.

The Scots believe they contribute more money economically to the UK than what they receive in return. Who hasn't heard that kind of argument here as well?

2--I have read where a number of banks and financial institutions have threatened to leave Scotland if there is a 'yes' vote. What doesn't get discussed much is that many Scots feel that the financial problems there and throughout the UK can be blamed on those same banks and financial institutions that threaten to leave Scotland!

The other under reported aspect in this story is the threat that without the UK, Scotland's economy crumbles and that Scotland needs GB and the entire UK to survive. This may not be necessarily be so since Britain depends on the other UK countries for their economic survival more so than you think, with most of GB's good and services sold to Scotland and the other UK nations.

I am all for a YES vote tonight, if for nothing else than to stick it to GB and to that silly, ineffective weakling, David Cameron. I predict a Yes vote spells doom for Cameron personally, and the Tories in general.
Nose, meet face.

[reckless]

Nose, meet face.

I am not sure what you actually mean by your above quote but I'll assume it wasn't meant to compliment me on my post :)

What do you mean DJ??

[DJofSD]

I am not sure what you actually mean by your above quote but I'll assume it wasn't meant to compliment me on my post :)

What do you mean DJ??
Why do you take it personally?

If the citizens of Scotland vote to leave the United Kingdom they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[Greyfox]

If the citizens of Scotland vote to leave the United Kingdom they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Aye!:ThmbUp:

There's a reasonable chance that they will break away.
Allowing 16 and 17 year olds a vote in this matter borders on madness.
Many youths are idealists and will likely vote Yes.

[ArlJim78]

I don't think it'll happen, but I'm pulling for a YES vote.
Come on Scotland, let's do this!

[DJofSD]

I will use the IMBD movie meter to predict the vote to separate will fail since "Braveheart" has fallen in the last week.

[Tom]

The Scots have the nukes.

[DJofSD]

Yes, they do, and I haven't seen any discussion about what happens to the different military installations if the vote is to separate.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know the details of the situation there, but I think breaking up countries is a great idea.

Compromise works well on the small things, but sometimes the disagreements are huge and on very significant things.

When you have large groups of people within a country that don't want the same things in terms of economic and social policy, the politics can get very dirty and hostile (much like a marriage or business partnership between people that don't want the same things can get hostile). Plus, the implications of bad policy can be catastrophic for everyone, including those that were against it.

You can compromise with you wife on whose family to visit on each holiday, but if she wants 6 kids and you want none, you have a major problem.

In many countries there are passionate feelings on extremely important issues and there is no compromise that will make anyone happy. So why not simply break apart and maximize the freedom of both to pursue the life and country they would be happiest with. This idea that breaking up a country is somehow a bad that's been drummed into our heads all our lives is balderdash. Freedom is wonderful thing and sometime freedom means breaking up.

[ArlJim78]

Polls now closed, here we go.

even Groundskeeper Willie got involved.
W6vDzf-wSbk

[reckless]

Why do you take it personally?

If the citizens of Scotland vote to leave the United Kingdom they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I didn't take it personally but reading it right now, I concede it may have come across that way. :) No harm meant DJ.

Scotland, imo, is not cutting off its nose to spite its face. The Scots want their sovereignty, plain and simple. They don't want to send a boatload of their highly-taxed income to London and get pennies back in return.

I am all for Scotland leaving the UK.

There will be disruptions and blips but the world isn't going to end for them. Also, this vote just didn't happen on a whim; it's been a 10 year process. I don't think that qualifies as being spiteful.

Britain, on the other hand, has much more to lose with a YES vote than Scotland does with a NO result.

Scotland seceeding from the UK may even force Britain to leave the European Union, and to me, that will be the best long term event made possible by secession..

David Cameron losing out as PM is also a real possibilty because a YES vote will trigger a true 'no confidence' environment in Parliament, with a subsequent general election happening much sooner than planned.

[Greyfox]

It's looking like the "NO's!" are most likely to take it.

Watch it live at:

http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/live

[horses4courses]

It's looking like the "NO's!" are most likely to take it.

Watch it live at:

http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/live

Brought back memories seeing Clackmannanshire post one of the first results.
There around 1970 on a Scout camp. The wettest week I ever spent in my life.
We were washed into a church hall after Day 1. :lol:

Och aye.....

[highnote]

This is a very emotional issue and many will vote with their hearts instead of their heads. Culloden Moor and Cumberland the butcher will not be forgotten. Interesting that the Jacobites had the support of French and Irish troops. If it passes there could be intensified feelings between the Irish and Ulster.


An emotional decision can still be a rational decision.

George Friedman of Stratfor wrote a good geopolitical essay about Scotland breaking away from England. http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/origins-and-implications-scottish-referendum#axzz3DixM6p00

England wanted to rule Scotland so that they could prevent the French from using Scotland as a base for invading England.

I think Scotland should be independent. I think the Southern states should have been allowed to leave the United States without a war taking place.

If Southerners wanted their own country what business was it of the Northerners?

The Colonies fought a war to leave England. It was kind of hypocritical of the North to wage war on the South less than 100 years later.

The Shetland Islands want to become their own country, too. Let them!

The more countries there are in the world the better off we will all be.

[ArlJim78]

Renton with a summation of todays No vote. (language warning)

wqgkZDbe4Xk

[Tom]

It's looking like the "NO's!" are most likely to take it.

Watch it live at:

http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/live

NO?
They voted no?

So......they.......KILT it?

[ArlJim78]

I love some of their regional place names; Orkney, Inverclyde, Clackmannanshire, Fife, Argyll and Bute.

[DJofSD]

Got that one correct.
I will use the IMBD movie meter to predict the vote to separate will fail since "Braveheart" has fallen in the last week.

Cities voted yes.
http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/results

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx4Hbq8CcAAsP4X.png:large

[DJofSD]

He needed social media and an iPhone 6.

[upthecreek]

I really didn't care what happened but I'm a big fan of their adhesive tape! :lol:

[Clocker]

I don't know the details of the situation there, but I think breaking up countries is a great idea.

I don't know the details either, but I have seen arguments that an independent Scotland would have such internal divisiveness as to be unworkable. One writer, a Scot as I remember, suggested that there would be elements in an independent Scotland that would want to secede from Scotland.

[Tom]

And that is precisely why they make that great tape!

[DJofSD]

I thought monkeys only used gorilla glue.

[Greyfox]

As seen on the net:

"If Scotland had voted for independence they would be known as having been part of the Former United Kingdom or F.U.K.

Westminster championed the idea

"Vote NO for FUKs sake!"

[highnote]

NO?
They voted no?

So......they.......KILT it?


:ThmbUp:

Don't know why this one didn't get more comments. Too obvious, maybe?

Beethoven said the greatest things are simple.

[DJofSD]

A girl has a happenstance meeting with a Scotsman wearing a kilt.

"I would like to ask you something. Is there anything worn under that kilt?"

The Scotsman, not missing a beat, puts his hands on his hips, sticks out his chest and proudly states, "Aye, lassie, and it's as good as ever!"

<rim shot>

[ronsmac]

My Grandfather was born and raised in Scotland and would've voted yes if he were still alive. He was an old school guy that hated England.

[PaceAdvantage]

Was this one giant publicity stunt for Starz's new Outlander series?