The future....ISIS

[JustRalph]

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-2

Stick with it........revealing

[Clocker]

The semi-retired POTUS, virtually on his way out the door on his way to Martha's Vineyard, said that the ISIS crisis in Iraq (http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-admits-us-underestimated-isis-2014-8?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+I nsider%29) was unanticipated because of insufficient intelligence and the failure of policymakers to gasp the situation. It is not clear who the policymakers are in this country, but obviously they do not include the short-timer in the Oval Office.

"There is no doubt that their advance, their movement over the past several months has been more rapid than the intelligence estimates and the expectations of policymakers," Obama said of ISIS, adding, "Part of that is, I think, not a full appreciation of the degree to which the Iraqi security forces, when they're far away from Baghdad, did not have the incentive or capacity to hold ground against an aggressive adversary."

[Greyfox]

Excellent post JustRalph. :ThmbUp:

They are brainwashing the children (and have been for years) for service to Allah.

Cherishing death more than life, to be rewarded by Allah in the hereafter is total feckin mindlessness.

America needs to awaken to the mindset that they are being steeped in.

[TJDave]

America needs to awaken to the mindset that they are being steeped in.

We're not aware of this?

Of course we are.

[fast4522]

The future....ISIS: From post # 1

They are already dead, but just do not know it yet.

Question: In that video the little kids mentioned killing of Russians as well right?

[Clocker]

We're not aware of this?

Of course we are.

Some of "we" have been aware of this since around 2001.

Some of "we" believe that Iran only wants nuclear energy, that Hamas is a humanitarian aid organization, and that Iraq is fully capable of becoming a unified, self-governing democracy.

[Greyfox]

We're not aware of this?

Of course we are.

The average Joe Blow knows absolutely diddley-squat about the teachings of the Qur'an and the mentality of the jihadist mindset.

[TJDave]

The average Joe Blow knows absolutely diddley-squat about the teachings of the Qur'an and the mentality of the jihadist mindset.

That is by choice. You can't argue that the information isn't readily available.

[Greyfox]

That is by choice. You can't argue that the information isn't readily available.

Of course it is.

But even if you ask the next 10 people coming down the street :
"What is the holy book of Islam?'
How many do you think could even answer that question, far less know what's in it?

[TJDave]

But even if you ask the next 10 people coming down the street :
"What is the holy book of Islam?'
How many do you think could even answer that question, far less know what's in it?

That's not the issue. Our government is well aware of the problem. It's inaction or wrong action that has led to this mess.

[Tom]

the ISIS crisis in Iraq was unanticipated because of insufficient intelligence and the failure of policymakers to gasp the situation.

Don't you just hate it when you are the only idiot in the room? :lol:
Obama is truly a moron. I wonder if he is "aware " he has thumbs? :lol:

Kudos to the Russians for ridiculing this bozo on his birthday - people this stupid deserve it.

The US deserves it for being stupid enough to elect him.

You can't fix stupid.

[Greyfox]

That's not the issue. Our government is well aware of the problem. It's inaction or wrong action that has led to this mess.

The problem is far wider than ISIS and any action that will be taken with them alone.

[Clocker]

The problem is far wider than ISIS and any action that will be taken with them alone.

True. But this is the 800 pound gorilla in the room at the moment, and our leaders and "policymakers" have been ignoring it for months. So what are the odds that anything else will be addressed by this administration?

[Tom]

It is hard to be listening in on all Americans and focusing on Tea Party groups and still know what is going on in the world. Add to that tee time is early on weekends.

Obama is one busy boy.

[Greyfox]

True. But this is the 800 pound gorilla in the room at the moment, and our leaders and "policymakers" have been ignoring it for months. So what are the odds that anything else will be addressed by this administration?

The bottom line is the Iraq army was well equipped with fighters, artillery, tanks, and planes to take care of this problem themselves.
The bottleneck is al-Maliki the Prime Minister who has no use for Kurds or Sunnis. If they kill one another, that's fine by him. ISIS is strongly pebbled with Sunnis.
He's a Shia and quite content to see them massacre one another.
His inaction on this matter has forced Obama's hand.

[JustRalph]

The Generals warned this would happen

[Clocker]

The Generals warned this would happen

There were warnings for years. (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Iraq-warning-ISIS-Maliki/2014/07/06/id/581012/)

Dozens of intelligence officers, diplomats, and others say they warned the Obama administration of the threat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) was posing to Iraq, and the collapse of Mosul wasn't just predictable, but expected.

"It's simply not true that nobody saw a disaster like the fall of Mosul coming," Ali Khedery, a senior adviser at the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, told The Daily Beast. "I can't speak for anyone else, but I literally predicted this in verbal warnings and in writing in 2010 that Iraq would fall apart."

[Greyfox]

The Generals warned this would happen


Both Bush Jr. and Obama should have known it would happen.

Peter Bergen, a CNN analyst in 2003, predicted that meddling in Iraq without knowing the tribal animosities would lead to massive unrest in the Middle-East.

[Clocker]

Both Bush Jr. and Obama should have known it would happen.



The details are shrouded in the mists of old memory, but I recall reading an account of the first Gulf War by someone very high up in the G. H. W. Bush administration, post retirement.

The Elder Bush was often criticized for driving Iraq out of Kuwait and not going all the way to Baghdad and getting rid of Saddam. This person said that the idea had been seriously considered and rejected. One big reason was that they knew that Saddam held the country together with sheer power, and it would fall apart if Saddam was removed. And that they knew sectarian violence would ensue, and they had no idea how to deal with it.

[TBD]

Clocker your #19 post is spot on. At the conclusion of Desert Storm we asked why not just finish the job. We were briefed that even though Saddam was a nasty dictator he would still be able to hold Iraq together. Our government at the time did not want to see the whole region fly to pieces. We had accomplished our mission. Expell Iraq from Kuwait. When I returned from overseas many people asked me the same question. My response was simple. We did our job as we were ordered. At the time we all knew we would be returning. Just a matter of when. The failure of our current government was in not having a proper exit plan. I still to this day believe we should have left bases in Iraq, manned by our forces. You will either fight your enemy on their ground or yours.

[Greyfox]

I heard similar to what both Clocker and TBD are saying.
It may have been in an interview with G.H.Bush Sr. where he said:
"We didn't have an exit plan if we toppled Saddam."

[fast4522]

The head of that snake had to be severed or our problems with him would grow larger than the current fungus called ISIS today. If ISIS has another concentration of its leadership in one place and it gets incinerated who is going to cry foul?

[classhandicapper]

I'm not so sure I even care how the Middle East organizes itself. The Brits meddled and made a mess of things. Maybe it needs to be reorganized. All I care about it whether they get aggressive towards us. When/if they do I don't really care who's in charge, what the borders are, or what the country is called. At that point we should just flatten them permanently.

[sammy the sage]

I heard similar to what both Clocker and TBD are saying.
It may have been in an interview with G.H.Bush Sr. where he said:
"We didn't have an exit plan if we toppled Saddam."

and We don't have an exit plan NOW either...j/geez...it's all about big oil & military industrial complex THAT Eisenhower WARNED us about...

but religion STERIOTYPING makes those other thoughts kinda disappear...it's WHAT's good FOR business.... :bang: :mad: :( :faint:

[Clocker]

I heard similar to what both Clocker and TBD are saying.
It may have been in an interview with G.H.Bush Sr. where he said:
"We didn't have an exit plan if we toppled Saddam."

And George W. Bush didn't have an exit plan when we went into Afghanistan or Iraq. And Obama didn't have an exit plan when he came into office promising to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Obama doesn't do plans. He believes that his unique talent is "getting the policy right". He then delegates the policy to his "planning people" and they carry out his wishes.

[Tom]

The Generals warned this would happen

The enlightened one does not listen to generals.

And Clocker, he DOES do plans.
He has tee times scheduled right through Labor Day.

[JustRalph]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/27/isis-s-black-flags-are-flying-in-europe.html

Interesting....and scary

[Tom]

Europeans lack guts and integrity and will take the path of least resistance every time. They don't have courage to stand up anything. The less we associate with Europe, the better off we will be.

They offer nothing but capitulation. Never count on Europe for any support.
But watch them come running when they need help.

ISIS will find open arms in the home of cowards.

[Clocker]

I think that Iraq has been reorganized and Obama is way behind the curve in recognizing reality. He is still talking about the need for Iraqi leaders to create a unity government that accommodates the country’s diverse political, religious and ethnic factions. In a NY Times interview, he said the Iraqis have to agree to an inclusive politics of no victor/no vanquished. This from the guy who told Republicans that elections have consequences, and he won, so get over it.

ISIS (the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) now calls itself the Islamic State. As far as they are concerned, the area they control is no longer part of Iraq or Syria, it is an Islamic caliphate. It's is hard to imagine the Iraqi army is even going to try to drive them out. And the Kurds have no desire to be reunited with what is left of Iraq.

I think that lot of people, including our president, don't realize how deep the divide is between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq.

Analysts and U.S. officials (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/09/world/meast/iraq-isis-recruit/) estimate ISIS has as many as 10,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria, including those who were freed from prisons by ISIS and Sunni loyalists who have joined the fight as the group advanced.

But that number likely doesn't include these latest recruits, mostly young men between the ages of 16 and 25 who are primarily poor, unemployed and lack an education, the two Iraqi senior defense officials told CNN.

Add to that a disenfranchisement felt by Iraq's Sunni minority, who have bitterly complained of being marginalized and cut out of the political process by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Shiite-dominated government.

The height of that disenfranchisement coincided with ISIS routing Iraqi security forces in Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city, in June.



The Islamic State also considers all Shi'ites heretics who must repent or die. They have been killing hundreds of captive Shi'ite soldiers as they gain territory.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The brainwashing that kid undergoes is the crux of the whole problem. What is often portrayed as a religious conflict would be more accurately described as the battle between the haves and have-nots, the educated and non-educated, or the enlightened and the ignorant.

1400 years of this crap, and many educated people don't get it. These militants are not just a small splinter group like the kamakazi pilots of World War 2. They have much broader support, a long-term outlook, and no room for quarter. You cannot negotiate with these people.

Either we in the west have to agree that ISIS or something like it will exist with sovereign borders (along with society where women are treated like sub-humans), or we have to exterminate them. There is no middle ground.

[fast4522]

I like your choice of words, "exterminate them" for their current charter. Perhaps we should accept their holy war as an honest commitment to kill us, and by the same token do them first with extreme systematic elimination. I am all for live and let live, but these folks are out to kill us and all of our progeny.

[Tom]

Groups like that - you eliminate them.
There is no negotiating with them.
You find them, kill them.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The concept of freedom of thought appears to have little traction in many parts of the Islamic world. Leave, convert or die. Those are the choices you have if living in a region taken over by the zealots. The options to leave or convert are not always offered.

The last 100 years, the Middle East has obviously been influenced mightily by the economics of oil. Within the next 25 years or sooner, you'll see that trend reverse, but the hand is already dealt. This relatively short period of time of great wealth has breathed life into the growth of Islam, and in turn into their population growth. There's going to be pain, and lots of it. As the struggle for resources begins in earnest, the numbers and the mindset of the radical Islamists will lead to pogroms in many parts of the world.

The spectrum of compassion and hatred that humans are capable of projecting on others is simply breathtaking,

[fast4522]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-11/photo-of-boy-holding-severed-head-the-act-of-a-lunatic/5662202

[Tom]

Don't we have a drone with Maliki's name on it?
How does best serve Iraq - dead or alive?

[JustRalph]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/11/exclusive-obama-told-lawmakers-criticism-of-his-syria-policy-is-horsesh-t.html

Horse shit? The great orator? Never.........

[Greyfox]

The concept of freedom of thought appears to have little traction in many parts of the Islamic world. Leave, convert or die.
,

Exactly. :ThmbUp:

There is no leaving. If you do, you're an Infidel. Death to Infidels is the mindset.

[dartman51]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/11/exclusive-obama-told-lawmakers-criticism-of-his-syria-policy-is-horsesh-t.html

Horse shit? The great orator? Never.........

From that article:
In a New York Times interview published Aug. 8, Obama said that the idea arming the rebels would have made a difference had “always been a fantasy.”

“This idea that we could provide some light arms or even more sophisticated arms to what was essentially an opposition made up of former doctors, farmers, pharmacists and so forth, and that they were going to be able to battle not only a well-armed state but also a well-armed state backed by Russia, backed by Iran, a battle-hardened Hezbollah, that was never in the cards,” Obama said.


I guess he's not familiar with American history. Seems I recall reading about a little skirmish back in 1775, by a group, made up of those very kinds of people. :eek:

[Clocker]

In a New York Times interview published Aug. 8, Obama said that the idea arming the rebels would have made a difference had “always been a fantasy.”

Luckily, the Obama administration has always had a firm grasp of reality, and has never considered such fantasies in making policy. Like the fantasy of an Islamic Caliphate in the Middle East. From 2011, John Brennan (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/08/12/obama-administration-not-concerned-about-stopping-this-whole-caliphate-thing-n1877706?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall), then White House Counter-Terrorism Advisor and currently CIA Director:

"Our strategy is also shaped by deeper understanding of al Qaeda’s goals, strategy, and tactics over the past decade. I’m not talking about al Qaeda’s grandiose vision of global domination through a violent Islamic caliphate. That vision is absurd, and we are not going to organize our counter-terrorism policies against a feckless delusion that is never going to happen. We are not going to elevate these thugs and their murderous aspirations into something larger than they are," Brennen said.

[Clocker]

I guess he's not familiar with American history. Seems I recall reading about a little skirmish back in 1775, by a group, made up of those very kinds of people. :eek:

Yes, but those people were armed with muskets. Obama and the liberals have the wisdom to know that arming Syrian rebels with muskets would be ineffective, just as they know that the Second Amendment only applies to muskets.