The Future of Gov't Pensions

[RunForTheRoses]

http://calwatchdog.com/2014/08/03/gov-christie-not-all-pensions-will-be-paid/

[TJDave]

California will go kicking and screaming to its grave over this. The unions won't back down and have the political clout to bankrupt the State. Pensions will be paid, regardless. Californians better get prepared as they're fixin' to get hosed.

[RunForTheRoses]

California will go kicking and screaming to its grave over this. The unions won't back down and have the political clout to bankrupt the State. Pensions will be paid, regardless. Californians better get prepared as they're fixin' to get hosed.

Sounds like a real sinking ship with the explosion in undocumented (hmm) Obama voters pouring in causing demands on social services coupled with this and the inevitable, eventual flight of business from the Golden State if it hasn't started yet. No wonder there is an intrastate secession movement.

[Tom]

Sure, it is only fair that hard working people pay for the useless union crowd.
Unearned pensions are their right, just the money of other people is their right.

NO public pension is ever right.
NO public employee has ever earned one.
That is why they hire thugs.

[mostpost]

Sure, it is only fair that hard working people pay for the useless union crowd.
Unearned pensions are their right, just the money of other people is their right.

NO public pension is ever right.
NO public employee has ever earned one.
That is why they hire thugs.Why are all these pensions in such bad shape. The answer in one word. Republicans!

In 1994 the New Jersey pension fund was in excellent shape. It was won of the highest rated funds in the country. Enter Christine Whitman, Republican governor. Christine cuts taxes and, miracle of miracles, balances the budget.

But it really isn't such a miracle. She does it by stealing $1B from the pension fund. Each year the public sector unions in New Jersey make their required contributions to the pension fund. Each year Christine fails to make the states required contribution. At the end of her eight years in office the fund is severely underfunded.

On top of that we get the Great Recession which severely and negatively affected revenues in every state. Who caused the Great Recession? One word; Republicans.

[mostpost]

Admittedly it is not just the Republicans who have raided pension plans to pay for budget shortfalls. But the Republicans are the only ones who have done it for the purpose of cutting taxes when taxes don't need to be cut.

[TJDave]

Why are all these pensions in such bad shape. The answer in one word. Republicans!

You can't make that argument in California.

[Tom]

Why are all these pensions in such bad shape. The answer in one word.

Theft.

[Tom]

But the Republicans are the only ones who have done it for the purpose of cutting taxes when taxes don't need to be cut.

Why benefit everyone when the union boys can take triple their share and do a third of the work of real workers. Unions are thieves.

[Clocker]

Why are all these pensions in such bad shape. The answer in one word. Republicans!

It's true. If they could just get the Republicans out of office in Chicago, Cook County, and the State of Illinois, they wouldn't have problems like this (http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/dozens-suburban-police-and-fire-pension-funds-drying/tue-08052014-830pm).

There are 217 police and fire pension funds in suburban Cook County. The taxpayer-supported systems, with collective assets of nearly $5 billion, are intended to provide public safety workers and their families with stable retirement incomes.

But a Better Government Association analysis found that dozens of local police and fire pension funds are in financial peril, putting retirement incomes at risk – as well as the fiscal health of numerous municipalities.




This municipal pension mess comes atop alarming money shortages in pension funds for employees of the State of Illinois, City of Chicago and Cook County. Each of those agencies has been trying to work out a legislative solution.

Without a doubt, the collective unfunded liabilities of those bigger pensions, in excess of $100 billon, are far greater than the combined suburban pension shortfall. However, the fire and police pension woes threaten to have a far greater financial impact on mid-sized and small municipalities because they have fewer viable options to raise revenues or cut costs to plug a pension hole.

[Clocker]

Quote:
Why are all these pensions in such bad shape. The answer in one word.


Theft.

The problem isn't theft, the problem is unions buying off politicians with votes and campaign contributions. In exchange the politicians pay off the unions with fat pensions, a debt that won't come due until those politicians are collecting fat pensions of their own.

The problem isn't theft, it is corruption. The problem is quid pro quo. The problem is that unions play a major role in electing the politicians that then decide what the union benefits will be.

[Tom]

Theft of our elections.
Theft of the integrity of elect officials.
Theft of freedom of choice by people forced to join unions who don't want to.

With just one word, I thought theft summed up the criminal organizations nicely.

[Robert Goren]

Screw the workers who took less money so they could have a decent retirement. Is that the best answer he can come with? And this goof wants to be president! It seems the GOP isn't happy unless they can keep coming with a new way every so often to screw the guy or gal who draws a paycheck.

[Tom]

There is no reasonable argument that I, as a taxpayer, should paying for anyone's pension but my own.

How about THOSE people getting screwed on THEIR paychecks? I don't get a say in that process - just my money STOLEN from me, which is the basic Democrat part platform - just STEAL what they want.

[Ocala Mike]

NO public employee has ever earned one.



I call bullshit! I busted my balls for 25 years auditing state revenues from and for the Long Island parks and parkways, the Jones Beach Theatre, and NY state racetracks and OTB's. In my last few years, I brought in over $5 million for the state of NY by agressively going after tax cheats who claimed non-residency in the state; I'm sure most of those cheats had a pretty dim view of public employees too at the beginning of my audits, but I kind of enlightened them by the end.

My goal now is to live past 100 so I can take advantage of every dollar of my Tier I pension. Inidentally, when I hired on in 1972, I took a major pay cut leaving the defense industry on Long Island in return for the promised benefits of public employment.

[badcompany]

I call bullshit! I busted my balls for 25 years auditing state revenues from and for the Long Island parks and parkways, the Jones Beach Theatre, and NY state racetracks and OTB's. In my last few years, I brought in over $5 million for the state of NY by agressively going after tax cheats who claimed non-residency in the state; I'm sure most of those cheats had a pretty dim view of public employees too at the beginning of my audits, but I kind of enlightened them by the end.

My goal now is to live past 100 so I can take advantage of every dollar of my Tier I pension. Inidentally, when I hired on in 1972, I took a major pay cut leaving the defense industry on Long Island in return for the promised benefits of public employment.


In this heartrending tale, you left out the part where you, yourself, became a non-resident of NYS because of...




Wait for it...





High Taxes :lol:

[mostpost]

I call bullshit! I busted my balls for 25 years auditing state revenues from and for the Long Island parks and parkways, the Jones Beach Theatre, and NY state racetracks and OTB's. In my last few years, I brought in over $5 million for the state of NY by agressively going after tax cheats who claimed non-residency in the state; I'm sure most of those cheats had a pretty dim view of public employees too at the beginning of my audits, but I kind of enlightened them by the end.

My goal now is to live past 100 so I can take advantage of every dollar of my Tier I pension. Inidentally, when I hired on in 1972, I took a major pay cut leaving the defense industry on Long Island in return for the promised benefits of public employment.

I hope you don't think that we are going to believe that you work harder than Tom, who has ten posts on Pace Advantage since 9 AM (EDT). :rolleyes:

I know that I worked a lot harder during my years at the post office than at any of the private sector jobs I held. However, unlike you, my salary increased substantially when I made the transition from private to public sector. (More than triple)

[mostpost]

NO public employee has ever earned one.
This comment from the guy who posted eleven comments to this forum today during traditional working hours; and ten yesterday; and thirteen on Wednesday. Look up "The pot calling the Kettle black. Also look up "Projection" and "Transference."

[mostpost]

In this heartrending tale, you left out the part where you, yourself, became a non-resident of NYS because of...




Wait for it...





High Taxes :lol:
I would be willing to wager incredibly large amounts (up to one dollar) that high taxes were not the primary reason for Ocala Mike's move to Florida.

[badcompany]

I would be willing to wager incredibly large amounts (up to one dollar) that high taxes were not the primary reason for Ocala Mike's move to Florida.


I recall him mentioning it in another thread, and recommending that Tom and I do the same.

Mike was smart to do this. It's called voting with your feet.

[Tom]

No pension that depends on some third party paying for it is ever earned, no matter what you did.

[MONEY]

Sure, it is only fair that hard working people pay for the useless union crowd.
Unearned pensions are their right, just the money of other people is their right.

NO public pension is ever right.
NO public employee has ever earned one.
That is why they hire thugs.

In my 20+ years as a NYC Police Officer, I personally wrestled
with murderers, captured armed bank robbers, rescued a kidnapped 5
year old girl and lead people out of burning buildings.
I also arrested hundreds of felons, recovered many stolen vehicles
before they were stripped & even helped people find jobs. I am not
a thug. I earned my pension.

By the way, even though the NYPD pension system is required to pay
NYS millions of dollars each year, every NYC mayor & NYS governor has
attempted to raid the funds.

Thankfully the union has been successful in keeping the politicians
hands off of the money.

No pension that depends on some third party paying for it is ever earned, no matter what you did.

Most public pensions would not need tax payer money if the elected & non elected officials did not steal all of the contributions that were made by the workers.

[Tom]

I earned my pension.

Not if I have to pay for it you didn't.

[Ocala Mike]

I would be willing to wager incredibly large amounts (up to one dollar) that high taxes were not the primary reason for Ocala Mike's move to Florida.



The PRIMARY reason was the high cost of living in NY, so you could have won up to one dollar. Other reasons were my ill-fated desire to breed thoroughbred racehorses on a small piece of land I purchased in 1984 in Marion County, the weather, and, yes, the tax benefits.

MONEY, thanks for your service; my older brother also retired as a NYC policeman after 20 years, and regaled me often with horror stories about "the job." Meanwhile, I love Tom to death (sometimes), but his attitudes on the instant subject belong in the "HUMOR" thread. I still say that part of his problem has to do with living up there near shit city, Rochester.

[Ocala Mike]

PS: If you really are troubled by government pensions, in particular, and government employees, in general, I suggest you read up on Andrew Jackson and the "spoils system" to get a handle on how it was done before civil service reforms.

[badcompany]

No one is arguing arguing that being a cop in NYC is an easy job, quite the contrary. I have friends on the force, too, and dealing with low lives every day is not my idea of a good time.

The question is whether the current pension system is sustainable. From my understanding, the NYPD is close to paying its retired ranks as as much as the active force.

I believe it has recently changed, but there was a time when the starting salary for an NYPD officer was ridiculously low, like 25k a year. That takes its on the quality of cop you're gonna get.

[Tom]

MONEY, thanks for your service; my older brother also retired as a NYC policeman after 20 years, and regaled me often with horror stories about "the job." Meanwhile, I love Tom to death (sometimes), but his attitudes on the instant subject belong in the "HUMOR" thread. I still say that part of his problem has to do with living up there near shit city, Rochester.

I have no problem paying public employees for their services. I object to having to pay for their pensions. No one is paying for my retirement but me. Why do you thing you are entitled to have me pay for yours as well?
And I can lose mine ( and did lose a significant share of it) but no one is stepping up to make sure I got it back.

You think you deserve a paid-for guaranteed retirement?
You don't.

I guess it is humorous to expect people to pay their own way.

[Ocala Mike]

Why do you thing you are entitled to have me pay for yours as well?



Why do you think the "masters" (i.e., elected officials that you put in power) should be entitled to pay employees in public service 60-70% of their professional value on the open market?

Look, I agree that the landscape regarding FUTURE government pensions is totally different than it was 40-45 years ago, but when you make a statement on here regarding EXISTING retirees and their worth or lack of worth based on something you got out of a right-wing playbook, you must be called on it.

[Clocker]

Why do you think the "masters" (i.e., elected officials that you put in power) should be entitled to pay employees in public service 60-70% of their professional value on the open market?


We have been told repeatedly on this board that without unions, employees have no bargaining power. And we have been told equally as often that public employee unions are necessary because without the bargaining power they provide, government employees would not be making what they are worth.

Perhaps we need to get the local union rep in here to clear this up. ;)

[Tom]

No one is forced to take a public service job.

Perhaps we need to get the local union rep in here to clear this up.

He's busy this weekend....cleaning out his garage.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ohio-postal-worker-caught-throwing-mail-article-1.1896885

[badcompany]

No one is forced to take a public service job.



He's busy this weekend....cleaning out his garage.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ohio-postal-worker-caught-throwing-mail-article-1.1896885

Makes you wonder how much mail delivery was delayed because Mostpost had to handicap the card at Arlington. :(

[AndyC]

I have no problem paying public employees for their services. I object to having to pay for their pensions. No one is paying for my retirement but me. Why do you thing you are entitled to have me pay for yours as well?
And I can lose mine ( and did lose a significant share of it) but no one is stepping up to make sure I got it back.

You think you deserve a paid-for guaranteed retirement?
You don't.

I guess it is humorous to expect people to pay their own way.

A retirement plan is part of a worker's pay. If you don't object to paying public employees for their service it does not follow that you would object to their pensions. Presumably a person evaluates total compensation before accepting a job. People in the private sector generally get paid more but are left with the daunting task of funding their own retirements.

The problem I have with some of the public employee retirements is that benefits offered many years ago are now found to be overly generous. Certainly can't fault the retired employees but I sure can fault a system whereby it is politically expedient for an elected official to vote to continue for excessive benefits.

[JustRalph]

I was a union rep for cops. In the early 90's we were negotiating 3-4% raises every year. We used to sit around and debate how long we could keep it up.

The city I worked for was paying 9.5 % of the 10% pension drop. We were spoiled. Those same officers pay 5.5% now. They get 1% raises if they are lucky and their pension plan is short 120 million right now.

I saw this guy on Fox a couple weeks ago........I just laughed.

[Tom]

Looks like he's been sucking off of more than one public teet! :lol: :lol: :lol:

POSTER boy for unions!

[classhandicapper]

Why are all these pensions in such bad shape.

Because politicians seeking the support of unions made promises that were WAY out of line with the free market value of the union employees in order to get their votes. Everything else is a side show.