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View Full Version : Isn't it time for tote board to move into digital age?


Dark Horse
07-31-2014, 07:54 PM
Example. Why would odds jump from 5/2 to 2/1, as they do on the present tote board, when a digital approach could show anything in between?

If the board would show 5/2 as 250 and 2/1 as 200 look at all those beautiful options in between, that miraculously show up, all of which are listed at 2/1 in the stone age approach: 240 - 230 - 220 - 210.

How hard could it be?

tanner12oz
07-31-2014, 07:58 PM
Why dont they just show how much its going to pay based upon a 2 dollar base wager? Explaining odds and breakage to first timers is an immediate trip to the slot parlor vs the racetrack

Dark Horse
07-31-2014, 08:03 PM
Why dont they just show how much its going to pay based upon a 2 dollar base wager? Explaining odds and breakage to first timers is an immediate trip to the slot parlor vs the racetrack

The tote board, more or less, does show that. 2/1 is 200 for every 100 wagered. But they want to make the lucky holders of the winning tickets feel extra lucky by showing that as 600 instead, so that they won't believe their good fortune and bet again on the next race. Just silly psychology that doesn't belong in the present age either. Keep it real. (minus 2, divided by 2, brings it back to real payout).

horses4courses
07-31-2014, 08:12 PM
Any such upgrades cost $$$.
Tracks would probably fund something like that with a rise in takeout. :mad:

Stillriledup
07-31-2014, 08:18 PM
Roosevelt Raceway in Long Island had a tote that displayed exact odds, so it has been done.

PhantomOnTour
07-31-2014, 08:24 PM
They are waiting for Wrigley Field to move it's scoreboard into the digital age first.

tanner12oz
07-31-2014, 08:27 PM
The tote board, more or less, does show that. 2/1 is 200 for every 100 wagered. But they want to make the lucky holders of the winning tickets feel extra lucky by showing that as 600 instead, so that they won't believe their good fortune and bet again on the next race. Just silly psychology that doesn't belong in the present age either. Keep it real. (minus 2, divided by 2, brings it back to real payout).

but how often does a 100 bet at 2/1 return 200 even? There's no reason in this day and age we can't have prices to the penny or God forbid at least posted with breakage factored it...stock market deals with fractions of pennies and we deal in .10-.20 increments...seriously its a joke

Dave Schwartz
07-31-2014, 08:40 PM
That's what we do in our software: show decimal odds. Of course, there is still the round-down issue, but at least you can see where the tote really is.

tanner12oz
07-31-2014, 08:48 PM
We had a machine that would show the gaps in pricing based upon all outcomes at my now shuttered local otb...so you'd have show payouts ranging from 2.10 -4.00 or whatever based upon various outcomes...it was a really valuable tool. Twinspires shows the percentages of the pools but actual payouts need to be calculated.

Tape Reader
07-31-2014, 08:52 PM
Roosevelt Raceway in Long Island had a tote that displayed exact odds, so it has been done.

As I recall they also approximated place returns.

Longshot6977
07-31-2014, 10:03 PM
Why dont they just show how much its going to pay based upon a 2 dollar base wager? Explaining odds and breakage to first timers is an immediate trip to the slot parlor vs the racetrack

Balmoral does this. It actually looks like the payout is more when you see the posted dollar payouts. My friends like to see e.g. $16.80 instead of 7-1. No reason all tracks can't do it. But for me, I like the odds listed since I am so used to it after many years.

Tom
07-31-2014, 10:13 PM
That would benefit the customers.
Why would racing want to do that?
That would be a slipper slope.

Rule of thumb, when the technology becomes available, racing will grab it up within 50 years.

Give racing a break - timing of races is still way beyond it's reach.
Now you want digital????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dark Horse
08-01-2014, 01:07 AM
Any such upgrades cost $$$.
Tracks would probably fund something like that with a rise in takeout. :mad:

Track would get more action if players knew they were getting +240 instead of 2/1.

appistappis
08-01-2014, 01:26 AM
you are putting the cart before the horse.....the last thing i want too see is betting a horse at 3.25 to 1 and then having him go to 8.56 to 5 leaving the far turn.

Dark Horse
08-01-2014, 01:59 AM
you are putting the cart before the horse.....the last thing i want too see is betting a horse at 3.25 to 1 and then having him go to 8.56 to 5 leaving the far turn.

The old model is based on the use of fractions. I'd like to get away from it to improve clarity. Your example would look like this:
+325 (3.25/1) and +171 (8.56/5). If you know at what price you have an overlay this is far easier.

Changing odds during the race are not addressed with this. It wouldn't be too hard to add some programming to lock in odds, but with odds changing as fast as they do you may not always get what you want. That still would be better than finding out your horse dropped 25% in value after the race started. For one thing, honest players would no longer be negatively affected by the (corrupt) late cancellations of wagers.

therussmeister
08-01-2014, 11:33 AM
But of course, tote boards are digital. ;)

Dark Horse
08-01-2014, 12:22 PM
No good reason not to run horse racing like the stock market. Buy and sell at the prices offered, or place offers at prices that will be filled when the line moves. The problem with the exchange format is liquidity, but if that format is directly tied into the action at the tracks that would be solved.

Anyway. Funny how horse racing is losing in popularity, but is not stepping up to the plate to make it more attractive to players. Not asking horse racing to lead the way, but to follow the lead that other fields took decades ago.

iwearpurple
08-01-2014, 05:11 PM
Why dont they just show how much its going to pay based upon a 2 dollar base wager? Explaining odds and breakage to first timers is an immediate trip to the slot parlor vs the racetrack

Canterbury Park shows the exact amount that a win wager would pay.

levinmpa
08-01-2014, 09:01 PM
The toteboard odds that North American tracks employ is a pet peeve of mine. Here is something I posted in another thread awhile back.


One thing I would like to see on the American tote board is doing away with odds displayed in fractions, as in 7/5 or 9/2. I understand they only want to show odds in 2 digits on the tote board. I'm fine with 2 digits, but I wish they would use decimals up to the number 10. 8/5 can mean 1.6 to 1 or 1.7 to 1, so why not just show 1.6 or 1.7 on the tote board. 5/2 can mean, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8 or 2.9 to 1. In 2013, there is no reason why these odds should not be expressed in a 2 digit decimal. I want to know if the 6/1 I'm seeing on the toteboard is 6.0 or 6.9 to 1, without having to break out a calculator. Seems like a no brainer to me. Australian racing always expresses their odds in decimals, which I really like.

And while I'm on a rant, can we please fix the breakage issue. Breaking to a dime is just flat out stealing money from the players. A big show bettor gets robbed when a show price that should pay $2.39 gets cut down to $2.20. If I wager $1000 to show in this case, I should get $1195, but with the breakage, I would lose almost half my profit and would only get $1100. I can live with nickel breakage, even though in this technology age, it's unnecessary. If a track can't survive without breaking to a dime, they shouldn't be in business. To keep money that belongs to the players because it's "inconvenient" for the tellers to pay the change, is just outright stealing. I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of class action lawsuit regarding the practice of breaking to a dime or breaking at all. If I had the time or energy, I would pursue this.

tanner12oz
08-01-2014, 10:32 PM
The toteboard odds that North American tracks employ is a pet peeve of mine. Here is something I posted in another thread awhile back.


One thing I would like to see on the American tote board is doing away with odds displayed in fractions, as in 7/5 or 9/2. I understand they only want to show odds in 2 digits on the tote board. I'm fine with 2 digits, but I wish they would use decimals up to the number 10. 8/5 can mean 1.6 to 1 or 1.7 to 1, so why not just show 1.6 or 1.7 on the tote board. 5/2 can mean, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8 or 2.9 to 1. In 2013, there is no reason why these odds should not be expressed in a 2 digit decimal. I want to know if the 6/1 I'm seeing on the toteboard is 6.0 or 6.9 to 1, without having to break out a calculator. Seems like a no brainer to me. Australian racing always expresses their odds in decimals, which I really like.

And while I'm on a rant, can we please fix the breakage issue. Breaking to a dime is just flat out stealing money from the players. A big show bettor gets robbed when a show price that should pay $2.39 gets cut down to $2.20. If I wager $1000 to show in this case, I should get $1195, but with the breakage, I would lose almost half my profit and would only get $1100. I can live with nickel breakage, even though in this technology age, it's unnecessary. If a track can't survive without breaking to a dime, they shouldn't be in business. To keep money that belongs to the players because it's "inconvenient" for the tellers to pay the change, is just outright stealing. I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of class action lawsuit regarding the practice of breaking to a dime or breaking at all. If I had the time or energy, I would pursue this.

its funny cuz the tracks break it and then the tellers dont give you your change further breaking it

Some_One
08-01-2014, 10:35 PM
No good reason not to run horse racing like the stock market. Buy and sell at the prices offered, or place offers at prices that will be filled when the line moves. The problem with the exchange format is liquidity, but if that format is directly tied into the action at the tracks that would be solved.


No liquidity issues on UK racing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM5L2QnwbV4

davew
08-03-2014, 01:21 PM
you are putting the cart before the horse.....the last thing i want too see is betting a horse at 3.25 to 1 and then having him go to 8.56 to 5 leaving the far turn.

There are some ADWs that show odds in tenths and returns per dollar bet in win pool

ex 2.4 which is $6.80/$2 or $3.4/$1


so 2/1 on toteboard would include 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 seen at these ADWs

biggestal99
08-03-2014, 06:21 PM
No good reason not to run horse racing like the stock market. Buy and sell at the prices offered, or place offers at prices that will be filled when the line moves. The problem with the exchange format is liquidity, but if that format is directly tied into the action at the tracks that would be solved.

Anyway. Funny how horse racing is losing in popularity, but is not stepping up to the plate to make it more attractive to players. Not asking horse racing to lead the way, but to follow the lead that other fields took decades ago.

Exchange wagering will be offeredin jersey soon. No liquidity problems betting on most markets in the uk. 100 of thousands in matched bets on mostraces there. Can it be sucessfull in the us, time willtell

Allana

thespaah
08-04-2014, 11:38 PM
As I recall they also approximated place returns.
Actually the display gave the win price as it stood at that flash. Place and show prices were displayed as a range from a low to a high.
The Roosevelt tote had it's own moniker, "Westbury Tote"....I think that term is in Tom Ainslie's Complete guide to Harness Racing. I have it here someplace. I will look.

thespaah
08-05-2014, 12:14 AM
I have the book. There is a photo illustration of the Roosevelt unique tote board.
Why other tracks never picked up on this idea is a mystery.
I will scan the photo from the book tomorrow.

thespaah
08-05-2014, 10:38 AM
for some reason the attach files button is greyed out....can't upload picture.what gives?

thespaah
08-05-2014, 10:52 AM
ok got it done....it's in a zip file...
This is an image of the Roosevelt tote board.

thespaah
08-05-2014, 10:54 AM
To view, open the zip file. Then you can zoom in to see better details

Longshot6977
08-06-2014, 06:43 PM
That's a cool toteboard with the WPS payout ranges. But I wonder where/how they displayed the money in those pools. Did it change functions every minute or something?

Tape Reader
08-06-2014, 08:03 PM
I have the book. There is a photo illustration of the Roosevelt unique tote board.
Why other tracks never picked up on this idea is a mystery.
I will scan the photo from the book tomorrow.

Thank you. That pic brings back memories.

As a tote board reader, I used to design special charts to plot the tote. Arithmetic, log and semi-log. Me and my two friends (heavy Jewish accent, heavy Hungarian accent, and me, Brooklyn) would attract lots of attention transcribing numbers to the work sheet. My Jew friend was the enforcer to onlookers: “get lost, low life.” We did OK.

That was over forty years ago. Maybe we can have an update to the tote boards?

thespaah
08-06-2014, 08:24 PM
That's a cool toteboard with the WPS payout ranges. But I wonder where/how they displayed the money in those pools. Did it change functions every minute or something?
No...The pool amounts were not displayed on each entrant. Only the total WPS pools,
One other thing. No other racetrack in the NY Metro area had an infield display of probables for exactas and doubles. Not even NYRA or Meadowlands.
It wasn't until the early 80's when NJSEA built a separate board in the infield that Meadowlands displayed Double and Exacta probables.
Roosevelt was an innovative facility. Way ahead of its time.
The untimely demise of the place started in the late 80's when suddenly people just stopped going.
A typical Saturday night crowd would be in the 15 to 20k range. There were nights when it was so crowded that they'd delay post time by 10 mins. Oh and post time was 8 PM. This allowed plenty of time to get there for the first race. And, they got it done( usually 9 or 10 races by 11:00 or 11:15