Colonial Downs

[deathandgravity]

any update on Colonial Downs? Have heard nothing since May.

Real shame... one of my favorite tracks & the only reason I would visit family in Virginia. (they never caught on that my visits coincided with a Colonial TB meet)

[foregoforever]

No racing this year, obviously. The Va Racing Commission "ordered" Colonial and the horsemen's assn to reach an agreement by July 1 on a 2015 schedule. That deadline came and went, and Colonial has filed a court motion contesting the VRC's authority to make that directive.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia/colonial-downs-takes-racing-dispute-to-court/article_45f0c6d2-2267-546f-919a-e3a5aecfd3e9.html

[thespaah]

First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Second, I think representatives of all three entities should be locked in a room with no air conditioning until they hammer out a long term agreement.
These people have not a care in the world how many people's lives they've adversely affected.
One person stated that "a boutique meet would destroy racing in Virginia"...
Hey genius....Just what the *&^% do you think NO racing is going to do?
I reserve the balance of of my rant time.

[jballscalls]

First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Second, I think representatives of all three entities should be locked in a room with no air conditioning until they hammer out a long term agreement.
These people have not a care in the world how many people's lives they've adversely affected.
One person stated that "a boutique meet would destroy racing in Virginia"...
Hey genius....Just what the *&^% do you think NO racing is going to do?
I reserve the balance of of my rant time.

I completely buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.

[foregoforever]

First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.

By state law, Colonial gets about 5% of every dollar wagered by a Virginia resident through all out-of-state ADWs, every day of the year ... regardless of whether they're running races. That has eliminated their incentive.

If the state law gave Colonial their 5% while they were racing, and only 2% while they're not, then Colonial would have an incentive and we wouldn't be having this problem.

Whenever you hand someone money for doing nothing, they tend to want to continue to do nothing.

[cnollfan]

I am boycotting Colonial Downs this year.

[Ocala Mike]

Knew they were in trouble when a friend of mine ran a horse there a while back which finished fourth. When I asked her how the horse did, she said they would have finished better, but the horse STRUCK A GOOSE ON THE TRACK, and returned bleeding to the unsaddling area.

[thespaah]

I completely buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Ok...I'll bite...Why is Cnl losing money on live racing?
And as a follow up, why on earth would anyone make such a large investment on a business that was destined to lose money?

[thespaah]

Knew they were in trouble when a friend of mine ran a horse there a while back which finished fourth. When I asked her how the horse did, she said they would have finished better, but the horse STRUCK A GOOSE ON THE TRACK, and returned bleeding to the unsaddling area.
Tell ya what.....As one who plays golf once a week and one who believes that animal rights are important but have been carried WAY to far, I despise Canada geese.
These birds mess up golf courses with their constant tugging and digging of turf and their toxic to everything excrement. Yet, because these pests are "migratory water fowl" they are protected by federal law.
I digress.

[sammy the sage]

I am boycotting Colonial Downs this year.

me too :lol: :D

[jballscalls]

Ok...I'll bite...Why is Cnl losing money on live racing?
And as a follow up, why on earth would anyone make such a large investment on a business that was destined to lose money?

I don't know that they are. But I can totally believe it. Costs to run a race meet are really high and I've heard a number of tracks utter the phrase "lose as little as you can during the meet and make as much as you can during simulcast/dark days."

I just looked up a day of handle from Colonial last year, Sunday July 7th. They paid out a little more than $130k in purses.

They had $80k in on track handle, which at 20% blended take is 16k in income.
14k in instate wagering, let's say they get 20% from that, another 3k

372k in out of state wagers, which they probably get 3% from...so 11k.

So they're showing 30k in profit off the racing card. That's before taxes, % to horsemen, state racing commissions etc.

Now you gotta pay all your seasonal employees for the day. Gate crew $120 a day per guy, so that's $1500 right there. Now pay announcer, placing judges, in house stews, jocks room personnel, clerk of scales, track crew, photo finish, equibase, television crew, ambulances and EMT's to follow the horses (imagine what that costs!) your track handicapper/tv personality, paddock judge, entire racing office and about 20 or 30 other people.

Oh plus you gotta pay out purses ;)

Whereas simulcast days, you employ a teller or two, someone at guest services and someone at the coffee shop, who are all getting 10 to 15 an hour and make 15 or 20k on simo wagering.

As far as why someone would make investment, because they can probably make money in the off-season or on concessions. Or as is the case at some tracks, the owners just love horse racing.

[thespaah]

I don't know that they are. But I can totally believe it. Costs to run a race meet are really high and I've heard a number of tracks utter the phrase "lose as little as you can during the meet and make as much as you can during simulcast/dark days."

I just looked up a day of handle from Colonial last year, Sunday July 7th. They paid out a little more than $130k in purses.

They had $80k in on track handle, which at 20% blended take is 16k in income.
14k in instate wagering, let's say they get 20% from that, another 3k

372k in out of state wagers, which they probably get 3% from...so 11k.

So they're showing 30k in profit off the racing card. That's before taxes, % to horsemen, state racing commissions etc.

Now you gotta pay all your seasonal employees for the day. Gate crew $120 a day per guy, so that's $1500 right there. Now pay announcer, placing judges, in house stews, jocks room personnel, clerk of scales, track crew, photo finish, equibase, television crew, ambulances and EMT's to follow the horses (imagine what that costs!) your track handicapper/tv personality, paddock judge, entire racing office and about 20 or 30 other people.

Oh plus you gotta pay out purses ;)

Whereas simulcast days, you employ a teller or two, someone at guest services and someone at the coffee shop, who are all getting 10 to 15 an hour and make 15 or 20k on simo wagering.

As far as why someone would make investment, because they can probably make money in the off-season or on concessions. Or as is the case at some tracks, the owners just love horse racing.
Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?

[JimG]

Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?

Simulcasting (and now online) revenue when not racing live. Of course, now that they are squabbling with the horsemen it is only online revenue.

[ctownraces@bp]

Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?


Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.

[thespaah]

Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.
I don't know what could have given him that idea.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/02/04/long-shot-va-casino-bill-comes-up-aces-in-senate-committee-vote/
I like this quote.....Speaking about casino gaming
“Forty-nine states will have it before we get it,” the Virginia Senate’s Democratic leader Richard L. Saslaw told me at the time. Remembering that Utah exists, the Fairfax County lawmaker — who has supported casino legislation in the past — said: “Maybe 48.”

[Grits]

Virginia is moving to get OTBS reopened and out of the hands of monopoly, Colonial Downs. Along with searching possibilities for other sites.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/amendment-to-virginia-legislation-would-allow-otbs-to-reopen/

Encouraging.

[GaryG]

Virginia is moving to get OTBS reopened and out of the hands of monopoly, Colonial Downs. Along with searching possibilities for other sites.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/amendment-to-virginia-legislation-would-allow-otbs-to-reopen/

Encouraging.That would certainly be welcome. Colonial's old OTB in Scott County is now a church.

[Ruffian1]

Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.

Yep.

[Flysofree]

Virginia is moving to get OTBS reopened and out of the hands of monopoly, Colonial Downs. Along with searching possibilities for other sites.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/amendment-to-virginia-legislation-would-allow-otbs-to-reopen/

Encouraging.

Thanks for this info!!

[Tom]

That would certainly be welcome. Colonial's old OTB in Scott County is now a church.

What better place to place bets? :D

[Cholly]

from the press release:

" the legislation will enable Virginia’s horsemen and breeders to be able to guide the development of the racing industry in the years to come."

scary words, when you think about how the powers granted horsemen's groups nationally and in states like California have allowed them to guide the horse racing business right into the ground.

[Grits]

from the press release:

" the legislation will enable Virginia’s horsemen and breeders to be able to guide the development of the racing industry in the years to come."

scary words, when you think about how the powers granted horsemen's groups nationally and in states like California have allowed them to guide the horse racing business right into the ground.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So, I have no problem with this as it is a shame for a state to lose the sport of thoroughbred racing in its entirety. With this in mind, I'm glad they are working trying to work things out. Too, they may wind up with a better racing product.

[foregoforever]

from the press release:

" the legislation will enable Virginia’s horsemen and breeders to be able to guide the development of the racing industry in the years to come."

What it does is simply put money in their pockets. The outrageous 10% tax on all wagers placed by Virginians through ADWs just gets redistributed: 1% to the Virginia Breeders Fund, 4% to the new "Equine Alliance", and 5% to the horsemen's purse account for races run in Virginia (of which there are none at present).

Essentially, the Equine Alliance gets what Colonial used to get. All three of the recipients are really "the horsemen" under various organizational disguises. And there's no obligation to run any races at all. Of course, they're delighted. Who wouldn't be?

[Track Collector]

The article (in the Paulick report) mentioned three sites under possible consideration for flats races. Anyone know they might be?

[Flysofree]

What it does is simply put money in their pockets. The outrageous 10% tax on all wagers placed by Virginians through ADWs just gets redistributed: 1% to the Virginia Breeders Fund, 4% to the new "Equine Alliance", and 5% to the horsemen's purse account for races run in Virginia (of which there are none at present).

Essentially, the Equine Alliance gets what Colonial used to get. All three of the recipients are really "the horsemen" under various organizational disguises. And there's no obligation to run any races at all. Of course, they're delighted. Who wouldn't be?

If this is correct, I will give up wagering online with Twinspires. I'm referring to paying .20 cents extra for a $2.00 win bet.. That is truly beyond absurd.
Say it ain't so...Maybe they will wake up.

[foregoforever]

If this is correct, I will give up wagering online with Twinspires. I'm referring to paying .20 cents extra for a $2.00 win bet.. That is truly beyond absurd.
Say it ain't so...Maybe they will wake up.

It doesn't cost you anything. Virginia's 10% is taken is taken out of the ADW's cut. So, assuming a 20% takeout and a 6% signal fee, Virginia horsemen get 10% (through the various organizations), the track gets 6%, and the ADW is left with 4% for all wagers placed by Virginia customers.

I object to the notion that Virginia horsemen, who run no races currently, and only ran a few weeks all along, get the majority of the money for doing essentially nothing. Subsidies like this screw up the economics of the game, and there are side-effects.

The smaller ADWs won't take Virginia customers, and the larger ones aren't at all happy about the tax. That's why Colonial disappeared from TVG and HRTV some years ago. The ADWs weren't interested in promoting Colonial when they get such a small cut.

It's also why Colonial had so little interest in running races in recent years, as they made more money by not racing and just collecting their cut. This was the cause of all the problems last year.

[Flysofree]

It doesn't cost you anything. Virginia's 10% is taken is taken out of the ADW's cut. So, assuming a 20% takeout and a 6% signal fee, Virginia horsemen get 10% (through the various organizations), the track gets 6%, and the ADW is left with 4% for all wagers placed by Virginia customers.

I object to the notion that Virginia horsemen, who run no races currently, and only ran a few weeks all along, get the majority of the money for doing essentially nothing. Subsidies like this screw up the economics of the game, and there are side-effects.

The smaller ADWs won't take Virginia customers, and the larger ones aren't at all happy about the tax. That's why Colonial disappeared from TVG and HRTV some years ago. The ADWs weren't interested in promoting Colonial when they get such a small cut.

It's also why Colonial had so little interest in running races in recent years, as they made more money by not racing and just collecting their cut. This was the cause of all the problems last year.

Ok, thanks.. I didn't initially understand where the 10% was to come from in new legislation.
I thought the breakdown in negotiations between Colonial's owner Jacobs and the Virginia horsemen was over racing dates. He stuck soundly to only wanting to race a 5 day per year meet....with very high quality horses and purses. The Virginia horsemen said that would not work for them.. They wanted many more racing dates... That was the end game from my understanding.

[five-eighths]

Such a shame that track closed.

Was a very nice facility, a large mile+ track, with a "small track" feel.

Traveled to that area for work over 10 years ago and spent some weekends (even some weekdays) learning the game.

Biggest thrill was seeing Secretariat's owner. I still have that Secretariat bobble head they handed out that day.

[Flysofree]

Does anyone have any idea where are the 3 locations being considered??

Back in the day before Jacobs won the bid for the track, I heard the Churchill Downs people were bidding also for the track. The rumor was they had land in Portsmouth, Va. That would have been a better location than New Kent for crowd draw.

[thespaah]

Virginia is moving to get OTBS reopened and out of the hands of monopoly, Colonial Downs. Along with searching possibilities for other sites.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/amendment-to-virginia-legislation-would-allow-otbs-to-reopen/

Encouraging.
That would be fantastic.
The Ridgeway, OTB is just a couple hours from here.
This is the closest Pari-Mutuel facility of any kind to my residence.

[thespaah]

The article (in the Paulick report) mentioned three sites under possible consideration for flats races. Anyone know they might be?
I would imagine the sites would be near major population centers ( where the real estate will be available, but affordable)....Or on or near a major highway or airport.
Virginia is largely rural...Some 75% of the population of the Commonwealth is located within 75 miles of Washington.
The remainder is located in cities and towns stretching along I-81 from Roanoke to Harrisonburg....
With Northeastern VA being the most heavily populated and where most of the Commonwealth's wealth is concentrated, I would imagine a track would be built somewhere between DC and Dulles Airport.
Such a site could tap the DC as well as the northern VA and WV panhandle.
One issue though is the proximity of Charlestown which is only 40 road miles from Dulles.
Of course I could be completely wrong on this one and some horsemen's group may find an investor who would build out near Charlottesville or some other far flung locale.

[foregoforever]

Some 75% of the population of the Commonwealth is located within 75 miles of Washington.

Where did you find that statistic?

The population of VA is 8 million. The Richmond and Norfolk statistical areas, which are farther away from DC than 75 miles, have about 3 million combined. The cities in the west (Roanoke, Lynchburg, etc.) have about 1 million, and there's another million scattered in counties in the southern and western parts of the state. That's over 60% of the state population that's outside the 75 mile radius of DC.

Northern Virginians may think that they make up 75% of the state, but they don't. ;)

Finding a site for a track in Virginia is still as problematic as it was back when Colonial was built. Given Colonial's history, virtually no hope for casinos in Virginia and the general state of the industry, I can't imagine any investor building another track in the state.

[Grits]

They fell out. Again. :faint:

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/12680

Edit to add:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91127/colonial-downs-to-close-its-adw-operation/

[hadrianmarcus]

Where did you find that statistic?

The population of VA is 8 million. The Richmond and Norfolk statistical areas, which are farther away from DC than 75 miles, have about 3 million combined. The cities in the west (Roanoke, Lynchburg, etc.) have about 1 million, and there's another million scattered in counties in the southern and western parts of the state. That's over 60% of the state population that's outside the 75 mile radius of DC.

Northern Virginians may think that they make up 75% of the state, but they don't. ;)

Finding a site for a track in Virginia is still as problematic as it was back when Colonial was built. Given Colonial's history, virtually no hope for casinos in Virginia and the general state of the industry, I can't imagine any investor building another track in the state.

You are right...Northern Virginia makes up about 35% of the state population....and that percentage grows every year. The 60% number is tax revenue....every 10 dollars collected in state taxes in Northern Virginia, only six dollars is returned to Northern Virginia. :) So while the rest of the state may get annoyed with our inflated sense of importance...they have no problem spending our money.

[Grits]

It doesn't really matter to me where you all spend your money....I just wish you'd make a solid decision on horse race betting and stick with it.

[thespaah]

Where did you find that statistic?

The population of VA is 8 million. The Richmond and Norfolk statistical areas, which are farther away from DC than 75 miles, have about 3 million combined. The cities in the west (Roanoke, Lynchburg, etc.) have about 1 million, and there's another million scattered in counties in the southern and western parts of the state. That's over 60% of the state population that's outside the 75 mile radius of DC.

Northern Virginians may think that they make up 75% of the state, but they don't. ;)

Finding a site for a track in Virginia is still as problematic as it was back when Colonial was built. Given Colonial's history, virtually no hope for casinos in Virginia and the general state of the industry, I can't imagine any investor building another track in the state.
I found it here....My estimate of 75% was a bit high..http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/virginia_map.html
I chose counties and independent cities in VA only. Nothing in MD, which if I did, would result in about 4.5 million people residing in an around the nation's capital. This does not include those north west or east of DC.
Broken down into the VA pop only, it's around 3.5 million residing within a 75 mile radius of DC....Clearly, the place to build.
Quite frankly, even though Colonial is a nice facility and is unique, it is in an area which is too far from the most populous metro area.

.

[foregoforever]

Broken down into the VA pop only, it's around 3.5 million residing within a 75 mile radius of DC....Clearly, the place to build.
Quite frankly, even though Colonial is a nice facility and is unique, it is in an area which is too far from the most populous metro area.

Fair enough, but how many new tracks, unattached to a casino, have been built lately? Who would possibly invest in one? And how could they attract horses away from the slots-enhanced purses in Maryland and WVa? They can shuffle the money around, and rearrange the organizations all they want, but the economics don't change.

On the other hand, if they can find a steeplechase venue that can be adapted to run some flats races, that's probably sufficient to get them tapped in to the purse fund from the ADW tax.

[Flysofree]

They fell out. Again. :faint:

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/12680

Edit to add:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/91127/colonial-downs-to-close-its-adw-operation/

I am making a strong guess why Jacobs pulled the plug on EZbets and the couple of OTB's that remained open. I think he is of the opinion, that Northern Virginia will land a track. He (in some round about way) is connected to Maryland racing). He knows what's happening behind the scenes with the racing commission and horsemen in Virginia. I hope they build one in Hampton Roads, but I honestly doubt anything will be built to compare even remotely to the track in New Kent. It simply was a bad guess for location for Hampton Roads and Richmond.

[foregoforever]

Report on today's Virginia Racing Commission meeting:

http://www.richmond.com/business/local/article_3164f86a-2a61-500b-846b-a9f34b0394f9.html

According to this, Colonial's own ADW (EZ Horseplay, which they shut down this week) has been withholding the 5% share from the ADW tax to the Virginia Horsemen's purse fund since November 1. Litigation expected.

There's also a statement from the Va Equine Alliance that they hope to run harness racing in October, and turf racing next year, at Oak Ridge Estates in Nelson County. This is a hunt club halfway between Charlottesville and Lynchburg. Google map (you may have to zoom out to see the oval) ...

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.70406,-78.87527&ll=37.71214,-78.872738&spn=0.028688,0.039096&num=1&t=h&z=15

(and you thought halfway between Richmond and Williamsburg was a remote location.)

[Flysofree]

Report on today's Virginia Racing Commission meeting:

http://www.richmond.com/business/local/article_3164f86a-2a61-500b-846b-a9f34b0394f9.html

According to this, Colonial's own ADW (EZ Horseplay, which they shut down this week) has been withholding the 5% share from the ADW tax to the Virginia Horsemen's purse fund since November 1. Litigation expected.

There's also a statement from the Va Equine Alliance that they hope to run harness racing in October, and turf racing next year, at Oak Ridge Estates in Nelson County. This is a hunt club halfway between Charlottesville and Lynchburg. Google map (you may have to zoom out to see the oval) ...

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.70406,-78.87527&ll=37.71214,-78.872738&spn=0.028688,0.039096&num=1&t=h&z=15

(and you thought halfway between Richmond and Williamsburg was a remote location.)

That Nelson County track must be doing one great business.. I can't get a bet down on them at Twinspires..... Oh wait a minute, I've never even heard of the place.
New Kent wasn't remote at all... But in Virginia, I think you either put it in Richmond or in one of the Hampton Roads cities. No halfway business with this traffic here.

[thespaah]

Fair enough, but how many new tracks, unattached to a casino, have been built lately? Who would possibly invest in one? And how could they attract horses away from the slots-enhanced purses in Maryland and WVa? They can shuffle the money around, and rearrange the organizations all they want, but the economics don't change.

On the other hand, if they can find a steeplechase venue that can be adapted to run some flats races, that's probably sufficient to get them tapped in to the purse fund from the ADW tax.
Ok....I think you missed the point here.
I was merely responding to speculation that a horsemen's group would build a track somewhere else in VA. It was NOT my idea.
I was merely speculating as to where the most viable location for a race track within the borders of VA.
Let's face it, WV racing is populated with low end stock. Colonial's meet was scheduled in between Pimilco and Laruel. That was by design and of course Cnl attracted many outfits from MD and DE...
Now, my suggestion would be for a VA track to run the majority of it's races for VA breds. The purses could be funded by ADW and signal fees as well as a stipend from the Commonwealth's breeder's fund.
VA is not going to be a casino state for the foreseeable future. It is just not a priority and I am guessing it is not politically palatable for the majority of the senators and reps whose constituents reside in the suburban and rural areas.

[foregoforever]

Now, my suggestion would be for a VA track to run the majority of it's races for VA breds. The purses could be funded by ADW and signal fees as well as a stipend from the Commonwealth's breeder's fund.

I think that's what the horsemen have in mind. Under the proposed new law, the VRC can grant a limited license to run up to 14 days a year to a facility without "significant infrastructure" - meaning no requirements for a local referendum, covered seating, barns, or specific course dimensions. This seems to describe the Oak Ridge facility, so this must be their "out" if they can't lease Colonial. I think that if they offer parimutuel wagering on it, even if it's just on-site in Nelson County, they can tap into the purse funds.

Are there enough VA-breds to run a decent meeting?

The proposed law is at ...

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?151+ful+SB1097ER+pdf

[Flysofree]

Just a side note of why I hate the news networks equally..All of them get a story and run with it before they know all the facts. A local news network in Hampton Roads reported last night that effective today Virginians could no longer wager horses on the internet since Colonial Downs has officially closed their off track parlors and associated account wagering website. (This did not affect players with Twinspires and other websites for Virginians. No mention of that.)

[ctownraces@bp]

Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.



The fourth OTB opened today since this and here comes the opening for gambling in Va. and Colonial Downs reopening maybe.


https://www.virginiahorseracing.com/?p=3196

[Redbullsnation]

The fourth OTB opened today since this and here comes the opening for gambling in Va. and Colonial Downs reopening maybe.


https://www.virginiahorseracing.com/?p=3196
We hope

[Rico8812]

Sounds like Colonial almost scored Bill Nader as their CEO, but alas, he went back to Hong Kong for the best racing on the planet.

[thespaah]

The fourth OTB opened today since this and here comes the opening for gambling in Va. and Colonial Downs reopening maybe.


https://www.virginiahorseracing.com/?p=3196

I do not see a date for the article in the link.
When was this published?
The reopening of Colonial for live racing would be great.
I used to go there for the VA Derby. It was a beautiful facility. Clean. Nice people. No degenerates.
And it's just 5 hours from my home.
Hopefully these hurdles can be negotiated and CNL can reopen.
Niw, you mentioned the 4th OTB opening.
I see nothing in the article mentioning this. Do you have a link to that info?
This>>>>>>https://www.virginiahorseracing.com/locationhours/

[thespaah]

I'm confused.
When the horsemen and the owner of Cnl had their battle, the OTB's in the state shut down because the horsemen had some sort of clout to do so.
That's all I know.
Since the end of Thoroughbred racing in VA, the OTB's have not operated.
The locations. Vinton( Near Roanoke) Ridgway( Near Martinsville) Alberta( on the border with NC off I-85. A couple in the Richmond area and one in Chesepeake. Had all closed.

[Si2see]

I'm confused.
When the horsemen and the owner of Cnl had their battle, the OTB's in the state shut down because the horsemen had some sort of clout to do so.
That's all I know.
Since the end of Thoroughbred racing in VA, the OTB's have not operated.
The locations. Vinton( Near Roanoke) Ridgway( Near Martinsville) Alberta( on the border with NC off I-85. A couple in the Richmond area and one in Chesepeake. Had all closed.


All "Colonial Downs" Otb's closed at that time. A new group was formed shortly after called Virginia Equine Alliance. Otb's starting opening back up the first one less than 3 miles from my work in Richmond. ( in different locations, the old Colonial Downs Broad Street Otb has been demolished with a grocery store being built )

[ctownraces@bp]

Little more info


https://www.vabred.org/saying-virginia-should-be-open-minded-on-casinos-virginias-governor-signals-support-for-plan-to-reopen-colonial-downs/

[ctownraces@bp]

All "Colonial Downs" Otb's closed at that time. A new group was formed shortly after called Virginia Equine Alliance. Otb's starting opening back up the first one less than 3 miles from my work in Richmond. ( in different locations, the old Colonial Downs Broad Street Otb has been demolished with a grocery store being built )

I live same distance from old Vinton otb and old Martinsville otb both are still standing but both are still vacant. The new otb/sportsbar in Collinsville is in old Dutch inn was an old club/motel. They did a nice job with the renovations. Its a nice little otb and bar but it will be a madhouse on the big race days with only 10 betting machines and a couple of greenhorns taking wagers but im glad its open:headbanger:

[Si2see]

I live same distance from old Vinton otb and old Martinsville otb both are still standing but both are still vacant. The new otb/sportsbar in Collinsville is in old Dutch inn was an old club/motel. They did a nice job with the renovations. Its a nice little otb and bar but it will be a madhouse on the big race days with only 10 betting machines and a couple of greenhorns taking wagers but im glad its open:headbanger:


That's good news. I am glad we have options in this state now ( the breakers otb on broad st in Richmond is one of the SMOKIEST places I have been in my life, about 10 times worse than any Vegas sportsbook ) but like you said at least it's open to play live cash wagers and not be limited to online adw's.

However I will only be satisfied if we get the live racing back. I am fearful that the only option will be a Ky Downs style Boutique meet even if we do get the instant racing money added for purses, the fact of the matter is when Jacobs turned in their racing license they also forfeited the racing dates which Laurel was quick to scoop up ( and who can blame them )

Jason

[deathandgravity]

Excellent news!
Haven’t visited any family in Virginia since Colonial Downs close down.

[Thomas Roulston]

It would be a tragedy if Colonial Downs gets torn down, the way too many tracks have recently.

[ctownraces@bp]

SOLD


http://wtvr.com/2018/04/25/colonial-downs-to-reopen-after-being-purchased-for-more-than-20-million/

[Inner Dirt]

Is live racing coming back? Reading the articles and trying to figure out what end is up is making my head explode. I keep reading about "Historical Horse Racing Machines" which is nothing new or exciting. They had similar machines, if they are what I think they are in Las Vegas in the early 80's. They used QH races from Los Alamitos. They showed a post parade and a program with just the horse number and odds, no information, it is just guessing unless they used an unusual looking horse you recognized.

[ReplayRandall]

After a six-year hiatus, Colonial Downs announced a re-opening for late summer 2019. The 15-day race schedule is highlighted by the return of the Grade 3 Virginia Derby, Colonial Downs' showcase event. The turf race for 3-year-olds has been won in past years by some of the top grass horses of the 21st century, including champions Kitten's Joy, English Channel, and Gio Ponti.

https://www.colonialdowns.com/racing-news/

Colonial Downs officials today announced that veteran race caller Jason Beem will be the official track announcer for the 2019 Colonial Downs meeting, August 8 – September 7.

https://www.colonialdowns.com/colonial-downs-names-jason-beem-race-caller-for-2019-meeting/

[Si2see]

After the turf course "burn" it is growing in beautifully. For anyone with too much time on their hands and that love Virginia racing the condition book has been out for a few weeks. More importantly for my sake, Darrell Wood was quick to act in getting the NHC handicapping contest back to colonial on the last Saturday of the meet.

For anyone planning to attend I will be there EVERY race day , with the possible exception of the Laurel contest which is Saturday August 17th, however if I bust out early I could make a late appearance at colonial that night as well but let's hope that isn't the case.

Anyone that wants to meet up feel free to reach out to me. Colonial has free admission, cheap reserved seating ( although that doesn't fit my routine ).

I also hope to have some hot tips during the meet although taken with a grain of salt ( will more than likely come from trainers or grooms instead of in the past when it came straight from the jockey's mouth )

Hope to see many of you out there.
Jason

[JimG]

After the turf course "burn" it is growing in beautifully. For anyone with too much time on their hands and that love Virginia racing the condition book has been out for a few weeks. More importantly for my sake, Darrell Wood was quick to act in getting the NHC handicapping contest back to colonial on the last Saturday of the meet.

For anyone planning to attend I will be there EVERY race day , with the possible exception of the Laurel contest which is Saturday August 17th, however if I bust out early I could make a late appearance at colonial that night as well but let's hope that isn't the case.

Anyone that wants to meet up feel free to reach out to me. Colonial has free admission, cheap reserved seating ( although that doesn't fit my routine ).

I also hope to have some hot tips during the meet although taken with a grain of salt ( will more than likely come from trainers or grooms instead of in the past when it came straight from the jockey's mouth )

Hope to see many of you out there.
Jason


Hi Jason,


I qualified there 2 different times when they had the contest. Unfortunately, I no longer live in the area. Best of luck there.


Jim

[Si2see]

Hi Jason,


I qualified there 2 different times when they had the contest. Unfortunately, I no longer live in the area. Best of luck there.


Jim

Thanks Jim !

For anyone who doesn't know me or my story, to try to keep it within a minimum read here..... I started playing contests the year after that colonial closed down. Some people at colonial and tons of people at the Richmond otb's knew me as a young hot handicapper, but that was partially due to the fact that I started a partnership where we bought a couple horses down in Florida ( I was 19 at the time ) , and all of that was thanks to this forum, that is where I met our trainer and long time friend Tom Schell. When the economy crashed it became more difficult for all of us to own horses but we hung in there for a while.

When Colonial shut down we were on our last few horses, and I needed something to do. That is when I found contests, on some of the online sites Horsetourneys in particular. I literally qualified for the World series one of the first times I tried a couple weeks before the contest. At this time the Horseplayers show was on esquire so I learned some then, but a lot of my learning came from trial and error. I knew I could handicap with anyone on any given day, I just couldn't do it every day. After that first World series I qualified/went to vegas 13 more times over the next 4 years. HOWEVER none of which was ever the Nhc. I had some really good tournaments, finished 5th once with a chance for the win going into the last race, however none of these were NHC events ( all were Boyd ). I just started really trying to qualify for it 2 years ago, but years I was close even on points but just missing that one good one to get me there. A lot of it was because I skip months at a time, a lot of it was due to bad luck ( we all have those stories ), and a few times I was so close ( which once again we have all been there ).

I took a break from contests most of last year, the traveling was catching up to me and I actually ended up making a major career change earlier this year. I am now in a place where I really feel like I can start firing away again, however I am about to go to Saratoga for the first time in two weeks, and the week after Colonial starts back up. So I might put my Kryptonite ( the NHC ) on hold until the winter and try once again to make a last second hailmary, but I always figured once I get there I will probably win it outright as it has been one of the hardest things I have ever tried for.

Jason

[Redbullsnation]

Colonial Downs is almost here. Too bad Dave is not announcing again but at least we have Jason there

[Afleet]

Colonial Downs is almost here. Too bad Dave is not announcing again but at least we have Jason there

Is it worth seeing in person? I have never been and I try to see a new track every year. Will try to see Ellis for the first time next month. Was also thinking of going to LA downs for super derby day. Went to Delaware park and Saratoga for the first time last year along w/Presque Isle-it was a good year!

[Afleet]

Thanks Jim !

For anyone who doesn't know me or my story, to try to keep it within a minimum read here..... I started playing contests the year after that colonial closed down. Some people at colonial and tons of people at the Richmond otb's knew me as a young hot handicapper, but that was partially due to the fact that I started a partnership where we bought a couple horses down in Florida ( I was 19 at the time ) , and all of that was thanks to this forum, that is where I met our trainer and long time friend Tom Schell. When the economy crashed it became more difficult for all of us to own horses but we hung in there for a while.

When Colonial shut down we were on our last few horses, and I needed something to do. That is when I found contests, on some of the online sites Horsetourneys in particular. I literally qualified for the World series one of the first times I tried a couple weeks before the contest. At this time the Horseplayers show was on esquire so I learned some then, but a lot of my learning came from trial and error. I knew I could handicap with anyone on any given day, I just couldn't do it every day. After that first World series I qualified/went to vegas 13 more times over the next 4 years. HOWEVER none of which was ever the Nhc. I had some really good tournaments, finished 5th once with a chance for the win going into the last race, however none of these were NHC events ( all were Boyd ). I just started really trying to qualify for it 2 years ago, but years I was close even on points but just missing that one good one to get me there. A lot of it was because I skip months at a time, a lot of it was due to bad luck ( we all have those stories ), and a few times I was so close ( which once again we have all been there ).

I took a break from contests most of last year, the traveling was catching up to me and I actually ended up making a major career change earlier this year. I am now in a place where I really feel like I can start firing away again, however I am about to go to Saratoga for the first time in two weeks, and the week after Colonial starts back up. So I might put my Kryptonite ( the NHC ) on hold until the winter and try once again to make a last second hailmary, but I always figured once I get there I will probably win it outright as it has been one of the hardest things I have ever tried for.

Jason

Its a longshot but if I go I will PM you. Colonial sounds like a place I want to go

[Si2see]

Its a longshot but if I go I will PM you. Colonial sounds like a place I want to go

No problem, it is unlike any track that I have been to. Although I am extremely biased , I was so excited to visit Kentucky Downs for the first time a few years ago because I am a huge turf course fan and I thought I would be amazed. Unfortunately it was a major let down , plus the schedule for a boutique meet like that makes it hard to coordinate seeing 2 or 3 race days in one trip.

The colonial schedule this year is perfect for a nice 3 race day week with the Thursday Friday Saturday 5pm post time. I believe next year they will add a day race day each week and a few weeks to the meet.

If anyone from out of town visits I can recommend places to see, stay near, etc in the Richmond area , there are tons of other things to do here just depending on what you are into.

[thespaah]

Is it worth seeing in person? I have never been and I try to see a new track every year. Will try to see Ellis for the first time next month. Was also thinking of going to LA downs for super derby day. Went to Delaware park and Saratoga for the first time last year along w/Presque Isle-it was a good year!

If they renovated the existing building and kept it the same, it is a nice place. You will not be disappointed .
I was in the area about a month ago and drove onto the property and took some pics.
There were things happening all over.
Here is a rear view photo from early June
Hope this works
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPiwbThiDltbC_Rc5oBjiq287FsQKnzNBXH0yaGNK_qcZ z1e8jc62ggewWErNdUbg/photo/AF1QipP7EEYQ2QX97q5wO804WrkcI-vUcpLlo41Mfa_Z?key=X2t0bEpmNjYxMmJMbV92QkhVbVRrWmZ vUmhuNmZB

[thespaah]

Is it worth seeing in person? I have never been and I try to see a new track every year. Will try to see Ellis for the first time next month. Was also thinking of going to LA downs for super derby day. Went to Delaware park and Saratoga for the first time last year along w/Presque Isle-it was a good year!

BTW, the main track is dirt. 10 furlongs.
The turf course can accommodate one lap 9 furlong races and one turn races up to 1-3/8ths mile
12 furlong races , if they have them, start slightly in the homestretch turn.
The style of turf course is similar to Gulfstream
I believe the total width is around 140 feet.
This gives CNL the ability to have a wide variety of distances and configurations.

[thespaah]

No problem, it is unlike any track that I have been to. Although I am extremely biased , I was so excited to visit Kentucky Downs for the first time a few years ago because I am a huge turf course fan and I thought I would be amazed. Unfortunately it was a major let down , plus the schedule for a boutique meet like that makes it hard to coordinate seeing 2 or 3 race days in one trip.

The colonial schedule this year is perfect for a nice 3 race day week with the Thursday Friday Saturday 5pm post time. I believe next year they will add a day race day each week and a few weeks to the meet.

If anyone from out of town visits I can recommend places to see, stay near, etc in the Richmond area , there are tons of other things to do here just depending on what you are into.

When we went about 10 or so years ago, we went to VA Derby day. Then spent the next day seeing Colonial Williamsburg.
I am biased because I enjoy history. Especially the Revolution and the colonial times that preceded the Revolution.
I plan on going up there ( I live near Charlotte, NC about 5 hrs away) during this upcoming meeting.
I am glad CNL is coming back. Its the closest racetrack to my home.
And why is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKdGuKOyto0
Go to the 1:00 mark...You'll see or watch the entire clip...Funny stuff

[Si2see]

When we went about 10 or so years ago, we went to VA Derby day. Then spent the next day seeing Colonial Williamsburg.
I am biased because I enjoy history. Especially the Revolution and the colonial times that preceded the Revolution.
I plan on going up there ( I live near Charlotte, NC about 5 hrs away) during this upcoming meeting.
I am glad CNL is coming back. Its the closest racetrack to my home.
And why is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKdGuKOyto0
Go to the 1:00 mark...You'll see or watch the entire clip...Funny stuff


Then I would say YES Colonial is technically your home track also , let me know when you are coming up , Picsix is from the Raleigh area and he will be up hopefully at least two of the weekends.

He only made it a few times before they closed but I remember the second to last time I gave him my best bet of the day 3 horse at 10-1 l. He only liked the 10 at 4-1 so he boxed then both for $10 ex box. Meanwhile me being a greedy handicapper only keyed my 3. Of course it comes 10,3 he makes hundreds and I have nothing to show for good handicapping.... however I have a ton of funny stories about the place also some nice scores especially the last season

[Si2see]

If they renovated the existing building and kept it the same, it is a nice place. You will not be disappointed .
I was in the area about a month ago and drove onto the property and took some pics.
There were things happening all over.
Here is a rear view photo from early June
Hope this works
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPiwbThiDltbC_Rc5oBjiq287FsQKnzNBXH0yaGNK_qcZ z1e8jc62ggewWErNdUbg/photo/AF1QipP7EEYQ2QX97q5wO804WrkcI-vUcpLlo41Mfa_Z?key=X2t0bEpmNjYxMmJMbV92QkhVbVRrWmZ vUmhuNmZB

Yes they put millions into the existing building. Although unable to share I have pictures from most construction stages , all the way up to today where they were working on the rail and paddock ( which the paddock area picture gave me chills )

In case anyone is there who doesn’t PM me I am not hard to miss. My routine is the exact same every race. Go from paddock , watch horses warm up, place final wagers , watch race in front of finish line. Winning race or good handicapping go straight to bar for a beer and had to paddock, bad handicapping or bad beat skip the bar and head straight from finish line to paddock.last but not least always have my iPad with me...... hell thinking about it I am probably more of a creature of habit than the horses themselves :lol:

[Jeff P]

Received the following note from track management at Colonial Downs:

The Virginia Racing Commission granted approval for a significant take out reduction in effect for the return of the new Colonial Downs. The track and horsemen together proposed the reduction from the past 18%/22% to help stimulate interest among horseplayers. We wanted to send you all this quick note so you are among the first to know.

W-P-S: 16%

Ex; Tri; Super: 20% (Tri at 20% as well)

Early & late double: 20%

P3; P4: 20%

P5: 12% (industry low)



-jp

.

[Zaf]

:headbanger:Received the following note from track management at Colonial Downs:





-jp

.

[ctownraces@bp]

Colonial Downs Opening Day Card On Thursday Features 10 races, 107 Horses, $515,000 In Purse Monies




https://www.virginiahorseracing.com/2019/08/04/colonial-downs-opening-day-card-on-thursday-features-10-races-107-horses-515000-in-purse-monies/?fbclid=IwAR1xuDJfc6Gn7L2HBpKOAkXuUweyp0ROLn0Iwdai rgGOrV-2ikmYuq-xY3g

[Redboard]

Looks like a beautiful track in a beautiful area. I've always wanted to visit.
Too bad it didn't catch on in 2015. I wish them luck.

[JohnGalt1]

I just finished handicapping the card.

I found 4 races to play.

Because this is the first meet in a while, I used the pars from the previous meet.

I will mark down the times of all races to make my own pars as the meet goes on, since I will see races from this meet in the future.

[biggestal99]

Received the following note from track management at Colonial Downs:





-jp

.

No exchange wagering. Always sad.

Allan

[Afleet]

RTN is not showing that they carry this track-seems impossible

[Afleet]

RTN is not showing that they carry this track-seems impossible

its on their website now; it wasn't showing up originally

[olddaddy]

Very nice grass course, nice field sizes, lots of grass races, late afternoon start time, great race calling by Jason Beem, lower takeouts, the only draw back is a poor wagering menu. Only 2 pk3s and 2 dds.

[Tom]

Do they have a dirt course? I thought only turf, but seeing it for the first time yesterday, it appears to be a dirt track along the back stretch, but it never makes the turn for home when the turf course does - maybe a dirt road?

[jballscalls]

Do they have a dirt course? I thought only turf, but seeing it for the first time yesterday, it appears to be a dirt track along the back stretch, but it never makes the turn for home when the turf course does - maybe a dirt road?

There is a dirt course. It's a mile and one quarter dirt oval, with a mile and a sixteenth chute for long one turn dirt races. Had two dirt races opening night, but none yesterday or today. Was told overall dirt races would be about 15% of the races.

[Tom]

Thanks, Jason, and :ThmbUp: for a nice job at Monmouth and another at CNL!