private clocker reports

[elhelmete]

(If it matters, I'm on the west coast).

I played around with two day's worth of purchased private clocker reports.

I'm not sure what I think of them. The ones I had didn't offer too much insight for a majority of the horses.

The biggest question mark for me was for MSWs, which was a big reason I decided to buy a few reports. In a 10 horse field, for example, the clocker would only have info on, say, 6 horses. That leaves 40% of the field uncovered. No matter how good a horse in the 60% might have worked, I can't have much confidence when 40% of his competition is a blank.

What's everyone's experience?

[Pensacola Pete]

It's another tool in the box. It won't work standalone. If you're betting serious money, then you need to decide if it's worth the expense.

[acorn54]

not to be a smart ass but if it is PRIVATE workout report, how many of these reports are available to the public. i've seen this marketing technique, the seller of something says he will give you the "edge" with his info, when he is selling it to every tom,dick, and harry.

[Rise Over Run]

not to be a smart ass but if it is PRIVATE workout report, how many of these reports are available to the public. i've seen this marketing technique, the seller of something says he will give you the "edge" with his info, when he is selling it to every tom,dick, and harry and elhelmete .

FTFY

[Stillriledup]

not to be a smart ass but if it is PRIVATE workout report, how many of these reports are available to the public. i've seen this marketing technique, the seller of something says he will give you the "edge" with his info, when he is selling it to every tom,dick, and harry.

Private just means that its PPV.

The more people who have it, the less valuable it becomes. I hear TVG guys talking about workout information on tv, so if you are paying for those workout comments you dont want those TVG guys handing that out for free, it becomes less necessary to purchase this stuff if those guys can talk about it on tv.

[Silver florin]

(If it matters, I'm on the west coast).

I played around with two day's worth of purchased private clocker reports.

I'm not sure what I think of them. The ones I had didn't offer too much insight for a majority of the horses.

The biggest question mark for me was for MSWs, which was a big reason I decided to buy a few reports. In a 10 horse field, for example, the clocker would only have info on, say, 6 horses. That leaves 40% of the field uncovered. No matter how good a horse in the 60% might have worked, I can't have much confidence when 40% of his competition is a blank.

What's everyone's experience?

Waste of money.

[pandy]

Andy Harrington's report is expensive but he is very good.

[sammy the sage]

http://www.drf.com/blogs/fornatale-clocker-turns-expertise-cash

[Stillriledup]

http://www.drf.com/blogs/fornatale-clocker-turns-expertise-cash

"I didnt set out to be the greatest of all time, i just did"

Love that quote! :D

[tanner12oz]

All works ate supposed to be published correct?

[horses4courses]

All works ate supposed to be published correct?

How can anyone look at the listed time for a work and learn anything?
Frequency of workouts is important, but times mean little.

The ease with which a horse is working is the golden nugget of information.
Published workouts reveal nothing about this.

[tanner12oz]

Wasn't my point...was merely thinking outloud that something is fishy when horses are entering stakes races with a published work in 6 months...

[Milkshaker]

For those who aren't familiar--Several of the SoCal private clocker reports give you a whole paragraph of HOW the horse looked and who (if anyone) the horse worked in company with. At least one clocker also ranks the works on a subjective A+ down to F grade.

Had good luck with several of these in the early 2000s (particularly helpful with layoffs, FTS, and getting to know the patterns of "betting" trainers).

When the SoCal tracks switched to synthetics, I emailed the private clocker whose reports I thought were the most valuable asking him what was up with the bizarre dropoff in the reliability of morning works being replicated in the afternoon.

Long story short: He gave me a very honest reply stating that since the switch to synthetics (particularly at Del Mar) it was total chaos and randomness as to how those works would stand up to predicting race results. Said the Del Mar poly was an entirely different beast after training closed and the sun blazed on it for several hours before post time.

I've bought the reports once or twice since then on big days, but generally stayed away from betting SoCal entirely because of it.

[pandy]

I had the same experience, the works at Del Mar in particular were not reliable because of the changing track conditions. But the reports from the dirt works were very good. The thing with these workout reports, they will lead you into some winners, and lead you onto some losers. The key is getting some nice longshots in there through the course of a year, but so many bettors have access to the reports now that it's tougher to get the big payoffs. The reports are best for maidens and lightly raced horses coming off layoffs. Older horses aren't always that enthusiastic about their work but may still be ready.

[horses4courses]

[QUOTE=pandy]The reports are best for maidens and lightly raced horses coming off layoffs. [QUOTE]

Spot on here. :ThmbUp:

The problem has become that the world and his wife
now looks to these sources in those situations, and
the horses get bet down like crazy.

[glengarry]

From what I heard from a once loyal Harrington follower was that he was lights out for years. Then, about a year or so ago, it all ended. Poor workers were blowing the doors off of good workers. Top rated workers became unreliable. Either a respected guy like Harrington suddenly lost his vision, or something else was happening.

Also for years, horseman at the NYRA tracks, or perhaps NYRA itself, fought like crazy to keep private clockers off the grounds. It certainly wasn't fear of losing a good parking spot by the rail at 5:00AM. Many trainers, and their owners, are degenerate horseplayers. The last thing they want to see in a workout report available for those with a credit card with a $10 limit is how great their unraced 2 or 3 year old worked. Doesn't do much to help that score you have been planning for months. Especially when the guys on the racing channels have the same reports and are telling their audience of thousands, all of whom have betting accounts, how great the horse looked in the mornings.

So the bottom line is that workout reports have gone the way of speed figures, trainer/jockey combos, pedigree information and other once little known data. They were great until everyone had access to them. Then they became a good predictor of who would take a lot of action. And if you see a good worker going off long, then you may be the only one that didn't get the message that the horse can't run.

[Turfday]

This DRF column is old....but about the subject.

http://www.drf.com/news/southern-california-clocker-country

[elhelmete]

From what I heard from a once loyal Harrington follower was that he was lights out for years. Then, about a year or so ago, it all ended. Poor workers were blowing the doors off of good workers. Top rated workers became unreliable. Either a respected guy like Harrington suddenly lost his vision, or something else was happening.

I have heard the same thing, interesting.

My main question about them was about incomplete reports.

I tried the reports out one weekend specifically to look at SAR and DMR 2yo MSW races, replete with FTS.

In a field of, say, 12 I would see reports on, say 7 runners. Am I really much better off if 5 runners are still a complete mystery with no reports at all? Other than tossing those horses that are apparently working very poorly.

[horses4courses]

I would recommend Bruno De Julio to anyone.

I missed him on Andy Serling's radio show the other night.
Was wondering if that is archived anywhere?

The product he issues for Saratoga is strong.
It's no magic solution to instant riches, but it's a very handy tool
for horses that are doing well - especially firsters and layoff types.

Nothing beats strong handicapping methods, but having some
insight into horses who are training well has to help.

Good luck!

[Maryland Owner]

I would recommend Bruno De Julio to anyone.

I missed him on Andy Serling's radio show the other night.
Was wondering if that is archived anywhere?

The product he issues for Saratoga is strong.
It's no magic solution to instant riches, but it's a very handy tool
for horses that are doing well - especially firsters and layoff types.

Nothing beats strong handicapping methods, but having some
insight into horses who are training well has to help.

Good luck!
What tracks does he cover ? Does anyone cover Maryland ?

[horses4courses]

What tracks does he cover ? Does anyone cover Maryland ?

To my knowledge, he doesn't cover Maryland.
NY, So Cal, Woodbine, and Churchill/Keeneland.

Not sure who does.

[Silver florin]

NY, So Cal, Woodbine, and Churchill/Keeneland.

Bruno must be a magician

[horses4courses]

NY, So Cal, Woodbine, and Churchill/Keeneland.

Bruno must be a magician

Add the Gulfstream winter meet to that.
He has others working for him.
Obviously, he can't be everywhere.

After Saratoga, I think he's taking time off before Keeneland.
The people that assist him in Fla. and NY are excellent,
and Donald Harris is in So Cal for him now, and he's good too.

You can't bet their stuff blindly,
but the horses they get very high on are worth following -
if the price is right.