NYRA and superfectas

[zico20]

The one thing that really ticks me off about the NYRA is if a horse scratches, even while in the gate, the super is canceled if the betting interests drop to 5. Many times I will play a race like this. 80 tri 1-2-3 and back it up with a 20 super 1-2-4-3 in case the 3 gets beat for third. I sometimes will be make a couple of bets and go home and watch them on tv. But if I make a bet in a 6 horse field in New York I have to stay at the track just in case a scenario like what happened in the Coaching Club on Sunday. Once the 4 got scratched the super was canceled. If I had gone home I would have gotten screwed thanks to this idiotic rule. I cannot think of another track that cancels the super so late in the betting.

[thespaah]

The one thing that really ticks me off about the NYRA is if a horse scratches, even while in the gate, the super is canceled if the betting interests drop to 5. Many times I will play a race like this. 80 tri 1-2-3 and back it up with a 20 super 1-2-4-3 in case the 3 gets beat for third. I sometimes will be make a couple of bets and go home and watch them on tv. But if I make a bet in a 6 horse field in New York I have to stay at the track just in case a scenario like what happened in the Coaching Club on Sunday. Once the 4 got scratched the super was canceled. If I had gone home I would have gotten screwed thanks to this idiotic rule. I cannot think of another track that cancels the super so late in the betting.
If they cancel a wager after the betting period starts, do they not refund the wagers? If so, how is it you figure you'd have been screwed should you have departed? You simply retain your betting receipt then redeem it for a refund on your next visit to the track.....Or, mail the bet receipt to NYRA...

[Some_One]

nyra saved you money.

[Matt Bryan]

You know, often the TRI's and Supers in those scenarios pay poorly. E.g., I hit a TRI not long ago that paid $12, and I was in for $20. I only wish I got a refund. The opportunity for a 'cheap score' just isn't there on those race types. It's foolish thinking that you're gonna capitalize or score big on a small field. Be thankful that the wagers didn't go through.

[zico20]

nyra saved you money.

That was just a hypothetical example I gave with the numbers. Sorry if my earlier post was poorly worded. That is how I play many races, straight tri and straight super as a cover. In CCA race I had played just straight supers with the 1-2 with 1-2 with 3-5 with 3-5. Had I left the track with making those bets I could not have been able to play the trifecta instead. Nobody could have put the 4 in their supers if you know what you are doing.

[EMD4ME]

That was just a hypothetical example I gave with the numbers. Sorry if my earlier post was poorly worded. That is how I play many races, straight tri and straight super as a cover. In CCA race I had played just straight supers with the 1-2 with 1-2 with 3-5 with 3-5. Had I left the track with making those bets I could not have been able to play the trifecta instead. Nobody could have put the 4 in their supers if you know what you are doing.

I understand and agree with your plight. Its not a NYRA issue. NYRA is at the mercy and whim of the NYS wagering board (or some cronie run political joke). Hence why we don't have sups when their is an entry.

Nevertheless it sucks. Lets say you played a 20 buck sup and hit it cold, only to find out its a refund..... that hurts.

[zico20]

You know, often the TRI's and Supers in those scenarios pay poorly. E.g., I hit a TRI not long ago that paid $12, and I was in for $20. I only wish I got a refund. The opportunity for a 'cheap score' just isn't there on those race types. It's foolish thinking that you're gonna capitalize or score big on a small field. Be thankful that the wagers didn't go through.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. There is only two ways to make more money than you lose. One is to play just pick 4s, 5s, or 6s OR play the trifecta and superfecta. Anyone who plays just favorites to win cannot make money long term. Further, nobody can make money betting longshots to just win or WPS. If you are good enough to pick longshots consistantly to win why on earth would you not key them in tris or supers and hit huge payouts on a regular basis. You already got the hard part down by picking a longshot to win, finding horses to hit the board should be the easy part.

Sunday was an unusual day for me. I bet 11 races in a single day. That was the most races I bet in a day in over a year. I try to find one or two races that look easy in the super and bet 120 or so. But Sunday I couldn't find one race like that. All my bets were between 40 and 60 and I hit four of 11 and made a nice profit.

The first at Fort Erie the trifecta paid 18.40 and it was a six horse field with three of them being complete throw outs. These types of races are there to be had, but you have to be very selective in which ones you actually bet. I only bet maybe 10% of six horse fields. The rest I don't like.

The second at Los Alamitos was a five horse field and the super came back 31 dollars with the five being an easy toss. The favorites ran one two like they should have and I loved the six over the four for third. I put up 40 dollars to get back 310. Not too bad for a five horse field with a big favorite and an easy toss out, wouldn't you say.

[Some_One]

You are way too results oriented with a severe case of smallsamplesizeitis.

The only way to have a chance to make a profit in this game is to do what others don't do, just betting favs won't get you there, sure you have an amazing hit rate, but you have no edge, throwing out a couple of longshots in a small field won't make you +EV for the bet.

The great gambler Billy Walters said 'parlays are for suckers' while I think even if individually you might have an edge, variance is a bitch. You're not going to hit 100-1 exactors or tris everyday, and that's what exactly you are suggesting by playing price horses in exotics versus the WPS pool. You'll have streaks where those easy tosses will come storming home late or get lose on the lead.

[zico20]

You are way too results oriented with a severe case of smallsamplesizeitis.

The only way to have a chance to make a profit in this game is to do what others don't do, just betting favs won't get you there, sure you have an amazing hit rate, but you have no edge, throwing out a couple of longshots in a small field won't make you +EV for the bet.

The great gambler Billy Walters said 'parlays are for suckers' while I think even if individually you might have an edge, variance is a bitch. You're not going to hit 100-1 exactors or tris everyday, and that's what exactly you are suggesting by playing price horses in exotics versus the WPS pool. You'll have streaks where those easy tosses will come storming home late or get lose on the lead.

Thats right. I lost 7 bets because some horse that didn't figure got in the tri or super. It happens. Small sample size? I have been betting this exact way for 23 years now. I put lots of longshots in the tri or super. My favorite bet is when I can find a 20-1 shot or more that I know is going to be third or fourth and I really go for it. Calder has always been great for me with this angle. I often found the off form horse that everyone else disregarded and played him in the super. I NEVER, and I mean never, play the four favorites to run 1-2-3-4 in exact order. Also, I NEVER play the program pick to finish 1-2-3. If I think that is a shoe in, I pass the race. The program pick trifecta hardly ever comes in.

What is wrong with essentially playing a 15-1 shot as a super. People bet 15-1 shots to win all the time. I just do it as a super or tri. Don't get me wrong, I have hit 300 dollar or more supers before. The last being the Bowling Green handicap. There were only 4 logical horses in that six horse field and amazingly the super paid 305. I had it 5 times. I still can't believe it paid that much with the 3-5 shot running second. I would have been jumping for joy had it paid 150.

Also, I do play 7 and 8 horse fields from time to time. I actually hit a 10 horse field trifecta at the Meadowlands on Saturday night. The trifecta only paid 15.80 for 2 dollars, but I had it 40 times. That was the only bet I won Saturday. I lost my other five bets for the day.

[Fox]

There is only two ways to make more money than you lose. One is to play just pick 4s, 5s, or 6s OR play the trifecta and superfecta.

Wow. That is quite statement.

[Stillriledup]

I understand and agree with your plight. Its not a NYRA issue. NYRA is at the mercy and whim of the NYS wagering board (or some cronie run political joke). Hence why we don't have sups when their is an entry.

Nevertheless it sucks. Lets say you played a 20 buck sup and hit it cold, only to find out its a refund..... that hurts.

But, to bettors, its a NYRA issue, people don't really care what goes on in "Albany" the name and face that's representing the track is NYRA, so it is a NYRA issue as far as people who could care less are concerned.

[thaskalos]

Further, nobody can make money betting longshots to just win or WPS. If you are good enough to pick longshots consistantly to win why on earth would you not key them in tris or supers and hit huge payouts on a regular basis. You already got the hard part down by picking a longshot to win, finding horses to hit the board should be the easy part.


Let me understand this:

If you could "pick winning longshots consistently"...then you SHOULDN'T be betting them to WIN? You should key them in tris and supers instead...and risk losing and collecting nothing?

What's wrong with betting these longshots to win? Don't the win-money spend the same as the exotics money?

[Stillriledup]

The one thing that really ticks me off about the NYRA is if a horse scratches, even while in the gate, the super is canceled if the betting interests drop to 5. Many times I will play a race like this. 80 tri 1-2-3 and back it up with a 20 super 1-2-4-3 in case the 3 gets beat for third. I sometimes will be make a couple of bets and go home and watch them on tv. But if I make a bet in a 6 horse field in New York I have to stay at the track just in case a scenario like what happened in the Coaching Club on Sunday. Once the 4 got scratched the super was canceled. If I had gone home I would have gotten screwed thanks to this idiotic rule. I cannot think of another track that cancels the super so late in the betting.

California won't cancel the super, they have supers on 4 horse fields, if they have a super, they usually go with the super no matter how many horses scratch.

Maybe you should stop betting NYRA races and bet So Cal.

[1st time lasix]

The takeouts in NY on all Trifectas...supers...pick 3's ...and pick 4"s are simply too high {24% plus}. The hurdle is too great for anyone who plays without a significant rebate. In order to play exotics there sucessfully...one must concentrate more on their Pick 5...a pick 6 carryover....Win, exacta and double pools. Just my two cents. ***** Playing a tri or super into a small NY field is somewhat foolish. Just not getting paid enough for the risk you take.

[Matt Bryan]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. There is only two ways to make more money than you lose. One is to play just pick 4s, 5s, or 6s OR play the trifecta and superfecta. Anyone who plays just favorites to win cannot make money long term. Further, nobody can make money betting longshots to just win or WPS. If you are good enough to pick longshots consistantly to win why on earth would you not key them in tris or supers and hit huge payouts on a regular basis. You already got the hard part down by picking a longshot to win, finding horses to hit the board should be the easy part.

Sunday was an unusual day for me. I bet 11 races in a single day. That was the most races I bet in a day in over a year. I try to find one or two races that look easy in the super and bet 120 or so. But Sunday I couldn't find one race like that. All my bets were between 40 and 60 and I hit four of 11 and made a nice profit.

The first at Fort Erie the trifecta paid 18.40 and it was a six horse field with three of them being complete throw outs. These types of races are there to be had, but you have to be very selective in which ones you actually bet. I only bet maybe 10% of six horse fields. The rest I don't like.

The second at Los Alamitos was a five horse field and the super came back 31 dollars with the five being an easy toss. The favorites ran one two like they should have and I loved the six over the four for third. I put up 40 dollars to get back 310. Not too bad for a five horse field with a big favorite and an easy toss out, wouldn't you say.

Disagree or not, just look at 2 recent examples:
The trifecta in the 5-horse Mother Goose paid $26.
The trifecta in the 5-horse field of Race 5 on the Preakness undercard paid...wait for it...$16

If you consistently make money on those, more power to you.